I will. I do find this interesting, though. Do you want me to vote Albus to get the lynch done, or do you want me to vote for somebody else just to throw one out there? I'm not sure how to reconcile this statement with your assertion that D1 isn't even close to being long (which I agree with you on).
1) I would like Nis to come in and state his reads this game
Albus is scum. He's made too many contradictions and backpeddled too much for him to be anything else.
Not sure about Iso. Basically what's been said about him has been, "He's Iso." Big problem for me is meta arguments mean nothing. I have very little history with anybody so I don't know how somebody plays town or scum. Iso being Iso means he's a null tell for me.
I'm working my way through what Caex has said. I do have some questions for him:
This I fully agree with. I'm convinced that either Archmage Eternal or SharkFinnigan are scum, but most likely not both of them. As I stated in my large post yesterday, I suspect Shark more than AE, simply because I think scum would be trying harder to look town.
Could you clarify how Shark has been trying hard to look town? Does this mean AE has been doing a bad job of appearing town?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
No, Albus has changed his tune, so to speak, a few times. He first claimed to have two coins then claimed to have just one. He claimed to be roleplaying his gimmick then dropped the act. He's flailed at you (I believe, have to go back to check on that) then decried flailing.
Albus has contradicted himself too much. It's no surprise he's today's lynch. I'd vote for him now but, like pinky, I'd like proggy's take on all of this. It would be nice to have Art's replacement's opinion, but I don't think we need to go full stop until somebody steps in.
I'm working my way through what Caex has said. I do have some questions for him:
Could you clarify how Shark has been trying hard to look town? Does this mean AE has been doing a bad job of appearing town?
Sure. He's been making posts, but they don't say anything. Early, he was lurking but he tried to make his posts seem contributory while not actually saying anything.
Here is where I lay out my case when Shark had only eight posts the whole game (two of them I left out because they don't count, if you go read them you'll see what I mean).
Since then, his posting has picked up a bit. I lay out my opinion of his more recent posts here.
WIFOM. "AE admits to lurking but has to be town because admitting to lurking is scummy and scum never do anything scummy."
Misrep. I never said AE "has to be town". Here I respond to SharkFinnigan directly asking me about him. If you look at the second post I linked, you'll see I actually consider him a good potential suspect for tomorrow.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I will. I do find this interesting, though. Do you want me to vote Albus to get the lynch done, or do you want me to vote for somebody else just to throw one out there? I'm not sure how to reconcile this statement with your assertion that D1 isn't even close to being long (which I agree with you on).
Saying someone is scum and voting for them are two different things. A vote is a commitment.
Yes. He's been nothing but deceptive if he's not lying.
Saying someone is scum and voting for them are two different things. A vote is a commitment.
So which one do you want? Albus' lynch now or D1 to continue? We both agree that this D1 hasn't been all that long. You can consider my vote on Albus and I'll be happy to make that reality once we have all agreed to end the day.
So which one do you want? Albus' lynch now or D1 to continue? We both agree that this D1 hasn't been all that long. You can consider my vote on Albus and I'll be happy to make that reality once we have all agreed to end the day.
I think you are confusing "AE has no reason to think the Day has dragged on" with "I want us all to hold hands and wait for some unspecified event to end the day".
If you think someone is scum, you vote for them. If they reach the lynch threshold, then the day ends. Unless you are going to try and plan things openly going into the night, there is zero reason to wait or rush things.
Waiting until "we have all agreed to end the day" doesn't do anyone any good, and is an easy way to hide true intentions.
meh at this point and after sleeping and thinking I'm pretty certain albus is scum. I was hoping to ask questions for reaction purposes or see if he gave anything away but I think the action will not work with too many people aghast with my unvote.
I'm going to lay my final thoughts here now with what I notice and if Albus does flip scum, as I suspect, this list is based on the belief that Albus is scum.
Scum with albus:
Poggy - I noted albus calling poggy out and then completely backs down using the meta excuses. Tack on that poggy does one fail comment and nothing more this game has me strongly leaning scum buddy with albus
Artifice - I have been thinking about art as scum for many days now. His tunnel on Iso and lack of explanantion about how Iso is scum over town when it comes to gambitting really speaks poorly of Art. His play toward Iso is very reministant of Flame Warriors and the same tunneling there.
My biggest concern and doubt is I think Art is smart enough to jump on a bw if his scum buddy is in trouble. I don't see Art ignoring bussing his scum buddy that flaggerantly, but the lack of comments and tunneling lean on me more then theory.
Shark/Nis - These 2 are completely null entities. Neither has given me anything I could say good about. I think if theory about Art is correct I would lean on Shark more being scum with Albus more for the lack of scum hunting, being a past player and giving no analysis and the vote on albus really reeks of scum bussing that I'm missing from Art.
There was many things I realized after reading albus one more time and his last post that definately does look more like last ditch effort to save himself.
1) claiming him and Iso are looking to be the leader is flawed. In my oppinion Caex is looking to be more leader quality then Iso. Caex is doing more searching around and inquiry.
2) The flailing he claimed from Iso to try to push the lynch, going so far as to link the discussion from MafiaScum. That look very much like a if you can't baffle people with brillance, then lets try bull**** attempt.
vote: albus
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
Oh a few request before a lynch please:
1) I would like Nis to come in and state his reads this game
2) I would like to see what Art's replacement is going to say
3) Mod: prod Poggy He needs to provide input pronto.
@pinkys_brain: Why did you feel the need to vote with Albus at L-2? Now with Nis's vote, the day will be over and you will lose out on poggy's and zin's (Art's replacements) inputs. And ME as well.
I don't like the QH by Nis here. It reaks of scum-bussing by him or EP
@Emo_Pinata: Were you trying to end the day or not? It seems like you were pressuring Nis to vote here and now the hammer fell (imo a little too soon).
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—Lazav
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hi zindabad. Looking forward to your assessment of the game.
EP should be questioned thoroughly for that hammer.
I was hoping to have it today but I doubt I'll beat Dagger to the thread. So keep looking forward to it until tomorrow. I guess now I'll have extra info to analyze.
Questions to Albus:
1) Why did you push to have Iso lynched going so far to mention the flailing tell from MS?
2) What town tells do you have on Art?
3) Do you think the wagon analysis really does anything if in fact everything you did this game was a bunch of BS?
4) Did you really think Poggy's actions were scummy early on?
I'll go ahead and answer this on the way out.
1) There was no way Iso was going to let me live. I would have rather survived. The only other choice presented to me was to get Iso lynched. Eventually I realized that wasn't going to happen and just accepted my fate.
2) For one thing, he has been correctly analyzing wagons and voting in a way that feels very town. The other part of it has to do with my relationship with Artifice, so I'm not really going to talk about it. I would say that Artifice (or rather his replacement) has about a 75% chance of being town.
3) It's still valuable to analyze a wagon. Notice the people who jump on without much comment or don't have original ideas. There were quite a few people who weren't voting me to agree with Iso, weren't voting me because they thought I was scum, and were basically just voting me to see someone lynched. At least it seemed that way to me.
4) I didn't know poggydude's meta at the beginning of the game until I read up on him. You will probably agree with me that doing terribly scummy things and claiming immediately in RVS are bad things. It shouldn't be hard to believe that I thought he was scum until I realized he did that every game.
I think it was actually a fairly productive Day 1. A few people are partially cleared, we have multiple solid candidates to look into tomorrow, the town should be more organized going forward, and I think most people know what's going on with the set-up now. It always sucks a bit to lynch a townsfolk, but I don't feel like my death is in vain.
If anyone has any more questions during twilight, let me know. Otherwise, goodluck everyone!
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"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." - Isiah 1:18
[QUOTE=SharkFinnigan;/comments/10847141]@pinkys_brain: Why did you feel the need to vote with Albus at L-2? Now with Nis's vote, the day will be over and you will lose out on poggy's and zin's (Art's replacements) inputs. And ME as well.
I don't like the QH by Nis here. It reaks of scum-bussing by him or EP
[QUOTE]
Last game I saw zinbad replace he didn't say much since Iso was pretty much going to be lynched. I don't think zin was going to do anything this game.
As for poggy he has had tons of time to respond. My comments about him should make it clear that he is pretty much actively lurking if not scum.
Were you going to say anything more? you acted more defensive about the case from AE then really scum hunting this game.
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mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
@pinkys_brain: Why did you feel the need to vote with Albus at L-2? Now with Nis's vote, the day will be over and you will lose out on poggy's and zin's (Art's replacements) inputs. And ME as well.
I don't like the QH by Nis here. It reaks of scum-bussing by him or EP
@Emo_Pinata: Were you trying to end the day or not? It seems like you were pressuring Nis to vote here and now the hammer fell (imo a little too soon).
1) There was no way Iso was going to let me live. I would have rather survived. The only other choice presented to me was to get Iso lynched. Eventually I realized that wasn't going to happen and just accepted my fate.
2) For one thing, he has been correctly analyzing wagons and voting in a way that feels very town. The other part of it has to do with my relationship with Artifice, so I'm not really going to talk about it. I would say that Artifice (or rather his replacement) has about a 75% chance of being town.
3) It's still valuable to analyze a wagon. Notice the people who jump on without much comment or don't have original ideas. There were quite a few people who weren't voting me to agree with Iso, weren't voting me because they thought I was scum, and were basically just voting me to see someone lynched. At least it seemed that way to me.
4) I didn't know poggydude's meta at the beginning of the game until I read up on him. You will probably agree with me that doing terribly scummy things and claiming immediately in RVS are bad things. It shouldn't be hard to believe that I thought he was scum until I realized he did that every game.
I think it was actually a fairly productive Day 1. A few people are partially cleared, we have multiple solid candidates to look into tomorrow, the town should be more organized going forward, and I think most people know what's going on with the set-up now. It always sucks a bit to lynch a townsfolk, but I don't feel like my death is in vain.
If anyone has any more questions during twilight, let me know. Otherwise, goodluck everyone!
You do realize you told everyone to follow Art and all he has done is push Iso as scum, which you thought/think is town.
Why would you want players to follow someone you have a town read on?
Poggy's meta is null. It would not surprise me in the least to see him do something dumb and then lurk out the rest of the game based on weak meta. I have seen too many scum players get pushed as town based on one post or meta that can be faked to take that at face value.
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mafia win/lose record
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mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
You just don't seem like part of the town PB. It's hard to place why though.
Btw, I told Caex to follow Artifice. Or rather, that if he is going to follow someone, that was his best bet. That is because I have a town read on him AND because Artifice is generally a good player. I don't encourage anyone to follow anyone. It's better to have your own ideas.
Artifice could still be right about Iso. I am leaning toward Iso being town, but it's far far from certain.
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"Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool." - Isiah 1:18
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
/replace out. Too much crap going on in my life right now than to play a silly message board game. I'm sorry I have to do this, but my brother is in the hospital for god knows how long and it's "my fault" he's there. Sorry guys. I thought I could make it on fumes alone. If you need an explanation (mod), please PM me.
Unless someone hit scum with the Beggars Guild, I still think SharkFinnigan and (to a lesser extent) Archmage Eternal are solid bets for pressure today.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@pinkys_brain: I'd try to fight you on Emo_Pinata's actions late D1 (which I saw as pressuring Nis), buttttttt that flip surprised me. So off to pursue Nis.
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Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I read up on the thread overNight. Since there didn't seem to be a plan at the end I figured I'd put up two coins to try to keep the scum from getting the Beggar's Guild.
I targetted Arnnaria because he wasn't talking as much as I'm used to. I had a theory that he's scum when he's quiet since he's talkative as town. Turns out I was wrong; he's town.
Reads:
Arnnaria: Mod-confirmed town
Caex Kothar: Town - He's posting all kinds of content despite being a noob. I'm certain that he would have scumslipped by now if he was scum. Plus his posts have a decent amount of insight.
Iso: Leaning Town - He seemed town in my mind during the reread, can't remember why but I'll go with it for now.
ArchmageEternal: Leaning Town - He sounds like the town AE I've played with in other games.
Pinkys_brain: Hard neutral - Seemed town until that weird vote/unvote on Albus. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I can't decide if it was just paranoia that Albus would flip town, or trying to get townie points by not being on a mislynch that was pretty much going to happen anyway, but having to get back on because of pressure.
Zindabad: Hard neutral - I am terrible at reading Art, and since he's no longer in the game I'm not even going to try. Hopefully I'll develop a read on Zindabad later today.
MirrorEntity: Soft neutral - post more
Nis: Soft neutral - post more
SharkFinnigan: Scum - Active lurking.
If you had to put a gun to my head for the other two scum right now, I'd probably say PB for the weird votes and MirrorEntity for the lurking. I'm thinking Nis will be a town-read as the day goes on, and Zindabad could go either way. If I get a scum read on him he'd replace MirrorEntity on my 'Most Likely Scumteam' list.
I read up on the thread overNight. Since there didn't seem to be a plan at the end I figured I'd put up two coins to try to keep the scum from getting the Beggar's Guild.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it generally agreed that liars are bad? Either poggy lied, or Wheat_Grinder lied. Either way, that looks like a pretty big slip to me.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it generally agreed that liars are bad? Either poggy lied, or Wheat_Grinder lied. Either way, that looks like a pretty big slip to me.
Problem is the mod confirmed that somebody got an investigation last night. If Wheat is lying about getting the investigation then he'll be counterclaimed. If the counterclaimer is scum then he or she is our next lynch if Wheat comes up town. It's an incredibly stupid gambit to falseclaim an investigation result in this game because we all know that an investigation was done.
Your point about poggy/Wheat contradiction is interesting, but I don't think it makes What scum because I just can't see scum falseclaiming an investigation.
Problem is the mod confirmed that somebody got an investigation last night. If Wheat is lying about getting the investigation then he'll be counterclaimed. If the counterclaimer is scum then he or she is our next lynch if Wheat comes up town. It's an incredibly stupid gambit to falseclaim an investigation result in this game because we all know that an investigation was done.
Your point about poggy/Wheat contradiction is interesting, but I don't think it makes What scum because I just can't see scum falseclaiming an investigation.
I never said it was falseclaimed. If the scum grabbed the investigation, they could say whatever they wanted about who was investigated.
I see two scenarios:
Scum gambit, with both Arnnaria and Wheat_Grinder being buddies. Problem with this one is that I have Arnnaria read firmly as town.
The scum won the investigation and blew it on the most obviously townie player in an attempt to give town points to one of their own.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I also bid and lost investigation last night. 2 coins was my bid. More inclined to believe poggydude lied that wheat at this point. Mor when I'm at a computer
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Scum gambit, with both Arnnaria and Wheat_Grinder being buddies. Problem with this one is that I have Arnnaria read firmly as town.
The scum won the investigation and blew it on the most obviously townie player in an attempt to give town points to one of their own.
Both of these are big problems with early investigations in this game. We can't trust that whoever won the investigation isn't scum. Wheat's investigation will be suspect until we get an investigation on him from somebody who bids a large amount.
Based on what I've seen in several games (including this one), poggydude is a wildcard, looking scum regardless of affiliation. I can honestly believe him pull off a gambit like that to start and be town. It was a conversation starter and I think it worked just to get an initial bearings on the game. Whether it was right or wrong now doesn't paticularly matter to me.
If we were to claim now, I'd probably lie about my coins too (lowballing it to make sure scum didn't know I had an extra coin to out bid everyone).
I can see poggydude lying about coins and yet still be town. I believe Wheat_Grinder at this point in time. Though, reading back,
@Wheat_Grinder: So you have me as scum. And atm, you have me in a scumteam with pinkys_brain (Who has openly asked for my play history to find meta on me) and MirrorEntity (An Active lurker which would make a team consist of 2 Active lurkers in your PoV). That does not seem to make sense in my estimation.
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it generally agreed that liars are bad?
As mentioned, I agree liars are bad, but coming from poggydude, I can expect at least one (town/scum/neutral/whatever he is).
Quote from Nis »
Both of these are big problems with early investigations in this game. We can't trust that whoever won the investigation isn't scum. Wheat's investigation will be suspect until we get an investigation on him from somebody who bids a large amount.
Or until W_G is dead. Which could happen, depending on scum's view of W_G or if other town members want him lynched.
@Arnaria: Hate to see you go, especially now that you're probably conf. town, but i hope everything goes well.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Poggy lied. I started with two coins. I figure he did it to fool the scum, expecting no one to go for the massclaim, and thus make it easier to grab the Beggar's Guild out from under them.
If not that then I don't know what other reason he had for lying.
I also bid and lost investigation last night. 2 coins was my bid. More inclined to believe poggydude lied that wheat at this point. Mor when I'm at a computer
If I may ask, when did you send your bid in? Near the start of the period?
It was not immediate. It was within 24 hrs of the beginning of Night. I did not expect to beat out anyone, though I thought on the off hand everyone was not looking at the time.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
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Also, reread PM: My bid was not accepted. Therefore, me inspecting (now dead) Emo_Pinata should not count the investigation, and someone outbid me or out sped me. (More likely out sped me).
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
@Wheat_Grinder: So you have me as scum. And atm, you have me in a scumteam with pinkys_brain (Who has openly asked for my play history to find meta on me) and MirrorEntity (An Active lurker which would make a team consist of 2 Active lurkers in your PoV). That does not seem to make sense in my estimation.
Sometimes I find people scummy by their associations with other players, sometimes I find people scummy for their own play. This is a case of the latter. Scum don't always interact with each other, and thus in the absence of any scum flips or decent interactions between people I find scummy, that's how I'm figuring out who is scum.
As far as lurking: I don't consider MirrorEntity an active lurker, just a lurker. Active lurking (posting often but little content) is a much better scumtell, whereas lurking (not posting) can be done by both sides (unless the player has a meta tell of lurking as scum). Therefore I only have him as neutral for now.
It was not immediate. It was within 24 hrs of the beginning of Night. I did not expect to beat out anyone, though I thought on the off hand everyone was not looking at the time.
I didn't expect mine to go through either because I sent it late, that's why I was asking. I sent mine just over 48 hours after the beginning of night.
You are lying, either about the coin amount or when you sent it.
Officially checked. Sent it 4 hrs after Night started.
Double checking rules of Beggar Sect now (since I investigated a dead guy and maybe mod was a nice mod) but,
Vote Wheat_Grinder because I sent 2 coins 4 hrs after Night 1 started.
Alright folks. Let's slow down a bit.
The bolded part of this quote is very important. Before we start lynching each other, we should consult Daggermod about the way abilities such as this work.
I'm not sure if someone should PM or directly ask in the thread. Is PM the generally accepted way to resolve rules questions with the mod?
I'll go ahead and Unvote until we know the answer to this.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I will. I do find this interesting, though. Do you want me to vote Albus to get the lynch done, or do you want me to vote for somebody else just to throw one out there? I'm not sure how to reconcile this statement with your assertion that D1 isn't even close to being long (which I agree with you on).
Albus is scum. He's made too many contradictions and backpeddled too much for him to be anything else.
Not sure about Iso. Basically what's been said about him has been, "He's Iso." Big problem for me is meta arguments mean nothing. I have very little history with anybody so I don't know how somebody plays town or scum. Iso being Iso means he's a null tell for me.
I'm working my way through what Caex has said. I do have some questions for him:
Could you clarify how Shark has been trying hard to look town? Does this mean AE has been doing a bad job of appearing town?
WIFOM. "AE admits to lurking but has to be town because admitting to lurking is scummy and scum never do anything scummy."
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
So...he bought back what he sold you?
Anyway, not a fan of this post in general - I feel like...like it's not saying anything.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Funny.
No, Albus has changed his tune, so to speak, a few times. He first claimed to have two coins then claimed to have just one. He claimed to be roleplaying his gimmick then dropped the act. He's flailed at you (I believe, have to go back to check on that) then decried flailing.
Albus has contradicted himself too much. It's no surprise he's today's lynch. I'd vote for him now but, like pinky, I'd like proggy's take on all of this. It would be nice to have Art's replacement's opinion, but I don't think we need to go full stop until somebody steps in.
It's not saying a lot. I'm still working my way through this weekend's walls of text.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Sure. He's been making posts, but they don't say anything. Early, he was lurking but he tried to make his posts seem contributory while not actually saying anything.
Here is where I lay out my case when Shark had only eight posts the whole game (two of them I left out because they don't count, if you go read them you'll see what I mean).
Since then, his posting has picked up a bit. I lay out my opinion of his more recent posts here.
Misrep. I never said AE "has to be town". Here I respond to SharkFinnigan directly asking me about him. If you look at the second post I linked, you'll see I actually consider him a good potential suspect for tomorrow.
{Magic: The RPG}
~~~
Votecount
Albus (5) - Iso, Emo_Pinata, Archmage Eternal, Arnnaria, Caex Kothar
Iso (1) - poggydude
Caex Kothar (1) - Albus
It takes 7 to Lynch with 12 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Saying someone is scum and voting for them are two different things. A vote is a commitment.
The Lord had taken ill and has passed away.
It was sudden, yes, and no, we know not the cause of it yet.
Have some tea, my Lady, to calm your nerves.
The guards reported the Lord had shaking fits, followed by difficulty in breathing.
The muscles around the throat were inflamed and raw.
You surmised correctly, my Lady, the Lord was most likely poisoned.
Calm down, my Lady, you are shaking terribly.
I will gather your counsels and inform them of this.
Yes, yes, a murder has been done in the Great House of Artifice 101 today.
Two, in fact.
Are you feeling well, my Lady?
You looked pale and breathing really hard.
What did I mean by two?
My Lady, two people were murdered today, both the Lord and yourself.
Worry not, my Lady.
We will take good care of your scions and heirs.
Save your breath, my Lady, for it is difficult to scream indeed with your throat constricted by the poison like that.
I am sure your scions and heirs will be glad to hand over the reins of the Great House to their caretakers in your absence.
I regretfully must say they will not long survive the handover.
Accidents do happen, especially to young energetic children like them.
Farewell, my Lady.
Hope you enjoyed the tea.
Sweet dreams.
~~~
Effective immediately, zindabad has replaced Artifice 101.
Lord of House zindabad
Emblem: A sky-blue salamander, crowned and winged, on a red field
~~~
Votecount
Albus (5) - Iso, Emo_Pinata, Archmage Eternal, Arnnaria, Caex Kothar
Iso (1) - poggydude
Caex Kothar (1) - Albus
It takes 7 to Lynch with 12 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
So which one do you want? Albus' lynch now or D1 to continue? We both agree that this D1 hasn't been all that long. You can consider my vote on Albus and I'll be happy to make that reality once we have all agreed to end the day.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
If you think someone is scum, you vote for them. If they reach the lynch threshold, then the day ends. Unless you are going to try and plan things openly going into the night, there is zero reason to wait or rush things.
Waiting until "we have all agreed to end the day" doesn't do anyone any good, and is an easy way to hide true intentions.
A better way to say it is: you are confusing me thinking why AE wants to end the day is scummy with me not wanting to end the day yet.
I'm going to lay my final thoughts here now with what I notice and if Albus does flip scum, as I suspect, this list is based on the belief that Albus is scum.
Scum with albus:
Poggy - I noted albus calling poggy out and then completely backs down using the meta excuses. Tack on that poggy does one fail comment and nothing more this game has me strongly leaning scum buddy with albus
Artifice - I have been thinking about art as scum for many days now. His tunnel on Iso and lack of explanantion about how Iso is scum over town when it comes to gambitting really speaks poorly of Art. His play toward Iso is very reministant of Flame Warriors and the same tunneling there.
My biggest concern and doubt is I think Art is smart enough to jump on a bw if his scum buddy is in trouble. I don't see Art ignoring bussing his scum buddy that flaggerantly, but the lack of comments and tunneling lean on me more then theory.
Shark/Nis - These 2 are completely null entities. Neither has given me anything I could say good about. I think if theory about Art is correct I would lean on Shark more being scum with Albus more for the lack of scum hunting, being a past player and giving no analysis and the vote on albus really reeks of scum bussing that I'm missing from Art.
There was many things I realized after reading albus one more time and his last post that definately does look more like last ditch effort to save himself.
1) claiming him and Iso are looking to be the leader is flawed. In my oppinion Caex is looking to be more leader quality then Iso. Caex is doing more searching around and inquiry.
2) The flailing he claimed from Iso to try to push the lynch, going so far as to link the discussion from MafiaScum. That look very much like a if you can't baffle people with brillance, then lets try bull**** attempt.
vote: albus
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
That makes much more sense. I understand you now. Thanks.
With that, I'll hammer. Vote: Albus
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
@pinkys_brain: Why did you feel the need to vote with Albus at L-2? Now with Nis's vote, the day will be over and you will lose out on poggy's and zin's (Art's replacements) inputs. And ME as well.
I don't like the QH by Nis here. It reaks of scum-bussing by him or EP
@Emo_Pinata: Were you trying to end the day or not? It seems like you were pressuring Nis to vote here and now the hammer fell (imo a little too soon).
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
EP should be questioned thoroughly for that hammer.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I was hoping to have it today but I doubt I'll beat Dagger to the thread. So keep looking forward to it until tomorrow. I guess now I'll have extra info to analyze.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I'll go ahead and answer this on the way out.
1) There was no way Iso was going to let me live. I would have rather survived. The only other choice presented to me was to get Iso lynched. Eventually I realized that wasn't going to happen and just accepted my fate.
2) For one thing, he has been correctly analyzing wagons and voting in a way that feels very town. The other part of it has to do with my relationship with Artifice, so I'm not really going to talk about it. I would say that Artifice (or rather his replacement) has about a 75% chance of being town.
3) It's still valuable to analyze a wagon. Notice the people who jump on without much comment or don't have original ideas. There were quite a few people who weren't voting me to agree with Iso, weren't voting me because they thought I was scum, and were basically just voting me to see someone lynched. At least it seemed that way to me.
4) I didn't know poggydude's meta at the beginning of the game until I read up on him. You will probably agree with me that doing terribly scummy things and claiming immediately in RVS are bad things. It shouldn't be hard to believe that I thought he was scum until I realized he did that every game.
I think it was actually a fairly productive Day 1. A few people are partially cleared, we have multiple solid candidates to look into tomorrow, the town should be more organized going forward, and I think most people know what's going on with the set-up now. It always sucks a bit to lynch a townsfolk, but I don't feel like my death is in vain.
If anyone has any more questions during twilight, let me know. Otherwise, goodluck everyone!
EP presssured Nis. Both are responsible.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I don't like the QH by Nis here. It reaks of scum-bussing by him or EP
[QUOTE]
Last game I saw zinbad replace he didn't say much since Iso was pretty much going to be lynched. I don't think zin was going to do anything this game.
As for poggy he has had tons of time to respond. My comments about him should make it clear that he is pretty much actively lurking if not scum.
Were you going to say anything more? you acted more defensive about the case from AE then really scum hunting this game.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
You do realize you told everyone to follow Art and all he has done is push Iso as scum, which you thought/think is town.
Why would you want players to follow someone you have a town read on?
Poggy's meta is null. It would not surprise me in the least to see him do something dumb and then lurk out the rest of the game based on weak meta. I have seen too many scum players get pushed as town based on one post or meta that can be faked to take that at face value.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I'm going to look hard at Nis with that hammer. One player encouraging another means crap. Each person is responsible for their own ****ing actions.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Btw, I told Caex to follow Artifice. Or rather, that if he is going to follow someone, that was his best bet. That is because I have a town read on him AND because Artifice is generally a good player. I don't encourage anyone to follow anyone. It's better to have your own ideas.
Artifice could still be right about Iso. I am leaning toward Iso being town, but it's far far from certain.
EP, wat? @ Iso comment
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Blood.
The crimson pool was expanding.
Death.
The glassy eyes were staring forward.
Listless.
The visage was shocked.
Betrayed.
The heritage was yours.
As it should.
By blood, it was.
By rights, it was.
Even if you were born out of wedlock.
Why wait?
For heirless is heirless.
And in your hands, a greater destiny shall be forged.
~~~
Effective immediately, Wheat_Grinder has replaced poggydude.
Lord of House Wheat_Grinder
Emblem: A white millstone on a green field
~~~
Votecount
Albus (7) - Iso, Emo_Pinata, Archmage Eternal, Arnnaria, Caex Kothar, pinkys_brain, Nis
Caex Kothar (1) - Albus
It takes 7 to Lynch with 12 alive.
As of this post, Albus has been lynched.
~~~
White banners. Green banners. Red banners. Black banners. Silver banners.
Foxes and Wolves. Hounds and Trees. Skulls and Pikes. Golden Wheels. Silver Wolves. White Ladies. Red Faces.
Proud symbols of Houses absolute and great.
It was a cacophony of colors blinding the eyes.
It was the glint of metals reflecting the sun.
It was the silence of a tomb.
For there was anticipation in the air.
And dread as well.
Overwhelming dread.
The White Heron stood alone, flapping languidly high above the Great Keep of House Albus.
Armies assembled, brought down to crush a single House, no matter how majestic.
And where a majority stood, even allies of the lone Heron fled and turned.
It started with a single warhorn.
Blaring loud and sharp, piercing the sky.
Then the earth rumbled and quaked.
And the undulating line of bodies charged.
Arrows hailed across the skies.
Boulders tore through the heavens.
No matter how majestic.
A Great House would fall today.
Lord of House Albus (Town) was eliminated on Day 1
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins has increased by 1.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins is now 1.
~~~
It is now Night 1.
There is a deadline of 72 hours for night action submissions. Day 2 will begin after all the night actions have been processed.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
It must be poison.
Hands shaking.
Eyes staring uncomprehendingly.
The only son, young and strong, dying on a sickbed.
Lovely sweet daughter, doted and loved, passed away in another.
Outside, men were weeping and bleeding pus.
Howling with distress thick with fear.
Limbs were numbing.
Nerves were burning.
Did they poison the food supplies?
Did they contaminate the water supplies?
Was it while they were away at war?
Was it while they were during the war?
Help.
A cure was needed.
Before all was too late.
Before the whole House was wiped out.
By the blessing of the Divines.
Please, help.
And the Hound Lady wept with grief and pain.
Lady of House Emo_Pinata (Town) was eliminated on Night 1
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins have increased by 2.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins are now 3.
All living players have gained 1 additional token.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins are now reset to 0.
The threshold amount for the Guild of Coins is now 5.
The number of remaining services for the Beggars Sect is now 2.
~~~
It is now Day 2.
It takes 6 to Lynch with 10 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Didn't see that coming.
Vote: SharkFinnigan
Unless someone hit scum with the Beggars Guild, I still think SharkFinnigan and (to a lesser extent) Archmage Eternal are solid bets for pressure today.
Also, hello new players.
{Magic: The RPG}
* Iso poofs.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I second this. A confirmed townie would be nice. A caught scum would be even nicer.
{Magic: The RPG}
I read up on the thread overNight. Since there didn't seem to be a plan at the end I figured I'd put up two coins to try to keep the scum from getting the Beggar's Guild.
I targetted Arnnaria because he wasn't talking as much as I'm used to. I had a theory that he's scum when he's quiet since he's talkative as town. Turns out I was wrong; he's town.
Reads:
Arnnaria: Mod-confirmed town
Caex Kothar: Town - He's posting all kinds of content despite being a noob. I'm certain that he would have scumslipped by now if he was scum. Plus his posts have a decent amount of insight.
Iso: Leaning Town - He seemed town in my mind during the reread, can't remember why but I'll go with it for now.
ArchmageEternal: Leaning Town - He sounds like the town AE I've played with in other games.
Pinkys_brain: Hard neutral - Seemed town until that weird vote/unvote on Albus. I'm not sure how I feel about it. I can't decide if it was just paranoia that Albus would flip town, or trying to get townie points by not being on a mislynch that was pretty much going to happen anyway, but having to get back on because of pressure.
Zindabad: Hard neutral - I am terrible at reading Art, and since he's no longer in the game I'm not even going to try. Hopefully I'll develop a read on Zindabad later today.
MirrorEntity: Soft neutral - post more
Nis: Soft neutral - post more
SharkFinnigan: Scum - Active lurking.
If you had to put a gun to my head for the other two scum right now, I'd probably say PB for the weird votes and MirrorEntity for the lurking. I'm thinking Nis will be a town-read as the day goes on, and Zindabad could go either way. If I get a scum read on him he'd replace MirrorEntity on my 'Most Likely Scumteam' list.
FoS: Wheat_Grinder
Scum Slip?
{Magic: The RPG}
Unvote
Vote: Wheat_Grinder
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it generally agreed that liars are bad? Either poggy lied, or Wheat_Grinder lied. Either way, that looks like a pretty big slip to me.
{Magic: The RPG}
Problem is the mod confirmed that somebody got an investigation last night. If Wheat is lying about getting the investigation then he'll be counterclaimed. If the counterclaimer is scum then he or she is our next lynch if Wheat comes up town. It's an incredibly stupid gambit to falseclaim an investigation result in this game because we all know that an investigation was done.
Your point about poggy/Wheat contradiction is interesting, but I don't think it makes What scum because I just can't see scum falseclaiming an investigation.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I never said it was falseclaimed. If the scum grabbed the investigation, they could say whatever they wanted about who was investigated.
I see two scenarios:
Scum gambit, with both Arnnaria and Wheat_Grinder being buddies. Problem with this one is that I have Arnnaria read firmly as town.
The scum won the investigation and blew it on the most obviously townie player in an attempt to give town points to one of their own.
{Magic: The RPG}
I also bid and lost investigation last night. 2 coins was my bid. More inclined to believe poggydude lied that wheat at this point. Mor when I'm at a computer
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I understand now. My mistake.
Both of these are big problems with early investigations in this game. We can't trust that whoever won the investigation isn't scum. Wheat's investigation will be suspect until we get an investigation on him from somebody who bids a large amount.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
If we were to claim now, I'd probably lie about my coins too (lowballing it to make sure scum didn't know I had an extra coin to out bid everyone).
I can see poggydude lying about coins and yet still be town. I believe Wheat_Grinder at this point in time. Though, reading back,
@Wheat_Grinder: So you have me as scum. And atm, you have me in a scumteam with pinkys_brain (Who has openly asked for my play history to find meta on me) and MirrorEntity (An Active lurker which would make a team consist of 2 Active lurkers in your PoV). That does not seem to make sense in my estimation.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
As mentioned, I agree liars are bad, but coming from poggydude, I can expect at least one (town/scum/neutral/whatever he is).
Or until W_G is dead. Which could happen, depending on scum's view of W_G or if other town members want him lynched.
@Arnaria: Hate to see you go, especially now that you're probably conf. town, but i hope everything goes well.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Poggy lied. I started with two coins. I figure he did it to fool the scum, expecting no one to go for the massclaim, and thus make it easier to grab the Beggar's Guild out from under them.
If not that then I don't know what other reason he had for lying.
If I may ask, when did you send your bid in? Near the start of the period?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Sometimes I find people scummy by their associations with other players, sometimes I find people scummy for their own play. This is a case of the latter. Scum don't always interact with each other, and thus in the absence of any scum flips or decent interactions between people I find scummy, that's how I'm figuring out who is scum.
As far as lurking: I don't consider MirrorEntity an active lurker, just a lurker. Active lurking (posting often but little content) is a much better scumtell, whereas lurking (not posting) can be done by both sides (unless the player has a meta tell of lurking as scum). Therefore I only have him as neutral for now.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I didn't expect mine to go through either because I sent it late, that's why I was asking. I sent mine just over 48 hours after the beginning of night.
You are lying, either about the coin amount or when you sent it.
Vote: SharkFinnigan because I forgot to earlier.
Officially checked. Sent it 4 hrs after Night started.
Double checking rules of Beggar Sect now (since I investigated a dead guy and maybe mod was a nice mod) but,
Vote Wheat_Grinder because I sent 2 coins 4 hrs after Night 1 started.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Alright folks. Let's slow down a bit.
The bolded part of this quote is very important. Before we start lynching each other, we should consult Daggermod about the way abilities such as this work.
I'm not sure if someone should PM or directly ask in the thread. Is PM the generally accepted way to resolve rules questions with the mod?
I'll go ahead and Unvote until we know the answer to this.
{Magic: The RPG}