I never defended Wheat's investigation choice. We went through this already:
And when did I jump to Wheat's defense? If you're talking about the bit at the beginning of D2 I was trying to puzzle out the seemingly impossible situation between Wheat and Shark.
FoS: pinky
I love when people say nothing all day long about a plan but are quick to defend themselves it means they are reading the thread closely but not enough to get involved in the conversation at hand.
Any reason why you haven't really talked much about the plan?
Second this post is where you defended and helped WG out:
Scum would most likely just keep quiet if they stole an investigation. It keeps the number of lies and possible contradictions down. The mafia's greatest asset is the town's lack of information. It can be argued that no information is worse than misinformation because misinformation can at least be analyzed when it is discovered as bad (or at least hinted as bad).
.
Giving doubt that scum would manipulate town for any reason and support WG. Why did you support and help out WG again?
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Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I've sent, I've been ready to end the day, and I'm just going to pull the trigger. Anyone who hasn't sent by now is probably scum.
I want to note a couple of things about pinky's posts, too. Notice her continued repetition of Nis as a scum possibility. She blamed him for hammering Albus on D1 after her own intensely scummy L-1 vote where she locked me out of contributing, and now she's blaming him for a defense that he never made and a connection that isn't there.
Then she also claims that I "called Wheat obvscum without ever voting him." Yes, that happened. But she repeatedly ignores how I called Wheat my #2 target, behind Iso, who I did vote and against whom I did provide ample reasoning and evidence. Am I now scum for having two scum targets and not voting them both at once? Maybe I should just rotate my vote among all my scum targets, because obviously I'm not sincere in my read of them until I've voted them perfunctorily.
Finally, I'd like to draw your attention to how pinky opted not to defend herself or try to contend my points, but simply reverted to covering her ears and going "cop him, cop him, cop him." She knows she can't engage me during the day. Instead she tries to push the issue off into a question of investigations. Behavior is clearly against her, so she moves the issue from the realm of day actions (the province of townies) into the realm of night actions (the province of scum.)
She has absolutely nothing on me. In fact, she had to lie to make some of the points she tried to make, so her net balance of evidence is actually negative. Once I made that obvious, that's when she started to bang on about cop investigations.
So investigate me. I have nothing to hide, unlike pinky, who'd rather try to sweep my cases under the rug than contend them in the light of day.
I have defended myself. Please quote what i didn't explain already? I pointed out comments I made about WG and Iso the best I could with the time I have.
second I stated multiple times a desire for either me or you to be investigated. You really think I'm scared?
Next you never answered the question of why you voted Iso over WG if you found WG obvious scum. Why do you keep avoiding that questions?
I have been asking for you to be investigated since day 2. I also said since people found me to be suspicious to investigate me so they would listen to me and stop the paranoia.
What I said about not arguing is lack of time. What is wrong with wanting an investigation Zindy? why is it scummy to demand to be investigated?
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mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
/confirmed sending my coins. I think AE is the only person not confirming.
Also I think zindy quick defense of Nis and not waiting for a case in full and Nis quick defense adds them higher to my scum list together.
I don't see how zindy ingores that Wg called Nis null and makes the statement in bold as not a connection and the fact that zindy calls my L-1 quick but says nothing negative about Nis's hammer is a big connections. They don't even really talk to each other or about each other much. (scum tell according to sepel).
Those are my last thoughts for the end of the day.
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mafia win/lose record
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3rd party (0) 0/0
I'm here. I PM'd Dagger saying I'd be V/LA until today. Wasn't sure if it was a good idea to post it in thread during night.
I sent a coin to Shark as per the plan.
Nis: Shark
zindabad: Shark
pinky: Shark
AE: Shark
Fox: greymon
Shark died with 4 coins. He had at least 1 coin yesterday since the bank paid out at the beginning of yesterday. There is no way he received 4 coins last night. One of those who claimed to have given Shark a coin is lying.
I know I'm not lying so out of the remaining three the person I find most suspect is AE. He has bucked the plan twice.
mod: I am requesting replacement do to my mother in law illness.
Things have gotten worse for her since she has been hospitalized and I need to focus on her and helping the family during this time.
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mafia win/lose record
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mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I'm here. I PM'd Dagger saying I'd be V/LA until today. Wasn't sure if it was a good idea to post it in thread during night.
I sent a coin to Shark as per the plan.
Nis: Shark
zindabad: Shark
pinky: Shark
AE: Shark
Fox: greymon
Shark died with 4 coins. He had at least 1 coin yesterday since the bank paid out at the beginning of yesterday. There is no way he received 4 coins last night. One of those who claimed to have given Shark a coin is lying.
I know I'm not lying so out of the remaining three the person I find most suspect is AE. He has bucked the plan twice.
Did you get the last investigation greymon?
I did not get the investigation, as I only received 1 coin. I think this clears Fox, in my opinion.
As for any further speculation, I believe it should wait until PB's replacement is found considering she is currently a suspect.
mod: I am requesting replacement do to my mother in law illness. Things have gotten worse for her since she has been hospitalized and I need to focus on her and helping the family during this time.
I'll be praying for your mother-in-law, PB. Hopefully everything gets better
Shark died with 4 coins. He had at least 1 coin yesterday since the bank paid out at the beginning of yesterday. There is no way he received 4 coins last night. One of those who claimed to have given Shark a coin is lying.
@ Pinky - Good luck, it sounds like you've been dealing with a lot lately.
Of course there is NO WAY Shark would have gotten those coins because he was not alive to receive them. End of story.
Well we know now that there are 2 scum left, and they are currently hiding in the list. What better place to hide, 2 scum, 2 town = shenanigans. Not only that, but as alluded above, what better place was there to be than on Shark's "side" since they knew he was going to be the NK and they would ultimately get their coins back.
Now that grey has confirmed that he did not get the investigation we need decide where we go from there.
I'd actually like to continue the game somewhat so it doesn't totally stall out too much while waiting for Pinky's replacement. I've been in a few games now where people just kinda start loosing interest (which sucks).
Of course there is NO WAY Shark would have gotten those coins because he was not alive to receive them. End of story.
That's not how it works. The Courier Post sends coins at the beginning of night before any other actions are processed. Shark received at most 3 coins last night.
Well we know now that there are 2 scum left, and they are currently hiding in the list.
Not necessarily. It could be that both you and greymon are scum and some townie is lying about giving Shark a coin. It could be you are scum and actually gave a coin to greymon. It could be greymon is scum and received a coin from you who are town. It could be you're scum who did not give a coin to greymon but the scum who claims to have given a coin to Shark actually game it greymon.
Some of these possibilities are certainly more likely than others. The most likely is that at least one scum is hiding among the four of us who claim to have given coins to Shark. That is one I am willing to assume since it has the most evidence going for it and satisfies Occam's Razor.
What I really want to know is why AE did not go along with the plan again.
That's not how it works. The Courier Post sends coins at the beginning of night before any other actions are processed. Shark received at most 3 coins last night.
Not necessarily. It could be that both you and greymon are scum and some townie is lying about giving Shark a coin. It could be you are scum and actually gave a coin to greymon. It could be greymon is scum and received a coin from you who are town. It could be you're scum who did not give a coin to greymon but the scum who claims to have given a coin to Shark actually game it greymon.
Some of these possibilities are certainly more likely than others. The most likely is that at least one scum is hiding among the four of us who claim to have given coins to Shark. That is one I am willing to assume since it has the most evidence going for it and satisfies Occam's Razor.
What I really want to know is why AE did not go along with the plan again.
Well let me think here.
Lets look at the facts about Sharks coins we DO know, because I don't see your math. We know as a fact Shark got 2 coins from Guild of Coins pay out....We also know he never had a chance to use any coins. We also know he died with 4 coins.
So, for the easy to follow...that's 4-2=2. We need to track *2* coins.
Lets go by your assumption which is that Pay out is first and NK second...even assuming that Shark started the game with ZERO coins. He got 2 through GoC. So now he's at +2. If he died AFTER the Courier post rather than before, that's still ONLY 2 coins. Which still goes to 2 legitimate town gave their coins and 2 scum didn't (they wouldn't want to lose their coins), but claimed they did. He died with 4 coins!
On the flip side, if the NK goes "first" Shark could have started with as many as 2 coins because you would get your coins back when Shark died. It wouldn't have mattered if all 4 people gave their coins to him.
So, again, I don't see where you get 3 from.
As for me and grey being a "team". I know you are suspicious of me I'm town, but can't prove it unless someone investigated me last night or you lynch me Having said that, you trusted grey to be town even after WG (as confirmed scum) investigated him. Why now, when the attention shifts to Shark's "donors" are you less willing to believe him as town? Why did you not mention those suspicions D2 when I SAID THE SAME THING?
Grey was the only *confirmed* town, however it should also be noted that since he had used an investigation already he also had the fewest amount of coins, making Shark the logical scum target.
Had you followed the plan, grey could have confirmed that you sent the coin to him as well, which was the point of Pinky's plan. It wasn't that I trusted her, but the first plan was just "people send stuff to people", then take everyone's word for it
If I was scum, you know who I would have said I'd "send" it to N2? Caex. Dead men tell no tales...Just saying.
Lets look at the facts about Sharks coins we DO know, because I don't see your math. We know as a fact Shark got 2 coins from Guild of Coins pay out....We also know he never had a chance to use any coins. We also know he died with 4 coins.
We know for a fact he got a coin D3 from the bank (we all did). We also all got a coin D2 from the bank. What we can't assume was that Shark did not spend that coin N2. Basically we don't know X. We do know that Shark received Y coins N3 and died with 4 coins:
4 = X + Y + 1
Y must be between 0 and 3 because X cannot be less than 0 (we don't have credit here).
Since we have four people claiming to have sent coins to Shark N3 (Y), and we know he received those coins before he died, we know that at least one of those people are lying. That is all we know. Y cannot be 4. It must be between 0 and 3 (and I know it must be between 1 and 3 because I know I'm not lying. You don't).
We can't assume that all of the remaining scum (if we do have more than one remaining scum) are among the group that gave coins to Shark N3. It's a safe assumption that at least one of the people in the Shark group is scum, but then again, as I've already said, the last remaining scum could be you or greymon or both.
Having said that, you trusted grey to be town even after WG (as confirmed scum) investigated him. Why now, when the attention shifts to Shark's "donors" are you less willing to believe him as town? Why did you not mention those suspicions D2 when I SAID THE SAME THING?
Basically I'm accounting for all possibilities. greymon is not confirmed town because there is no reliable investigation result on himself. He is firmly in my townie camp, but when listing possibilities I like to list them all no matter how remote. Part of this game is a logic puzzle and even a remote solution to a puzzle can be the correct one.
You did not send a coin N2. Fox sent a coin to you N2 instead of to Caex or greymon. You both bucked the plan.
Bull****!! I did send a coin. Way to try and falsify things. I see your trying to get a wagon going on me because I'm high on the suspect list, but using false info is scum.
Bull****!! I did send a coin. Way to try and falsify things. I see your trying to get a wagon going on me because I'm high on the suspect list, but using false info is scum.
Vote Nis
You are correct. I was misremembering. pinky didn't send a coin because he forgot. You did send a coin. My mistake. Totally on me for not looking back a few pages. Sorry.
We know for a fact he got a coin D3 from the bank (we all did). We also all got a coin D2 from the bank. What we can't assume was that Shark did not spend that coin N2. Basically we don't know X. We do know that Shark received Y coins N3 and died with 4 coins:
4 = X + Y + 1
Y must be between 0 and 3 because X cannot be less than 0 (we don't have credit here).
Since we have four people claiming to have sent coins to Shark N3 (Y), and we know he received those coins before he died, we know that at least one of those people are lying. That is all we know. Y cannot be 4. It must be between 0 and 3 (and I know it must be between 1 and 3 because I know I'm not lying. You don't).
Basically I'm accounting for all possibilities. greymon is not confirmed town because there is no reliable investigation result on himself. He is firmly in my townie camp, but when listing possibilities I like to list them all no matter how remote. Part of this game is a logic puzzle and even a remote solution to a puzzle can be the correct one.
You did not send a coin N2. Fox sent a coin to you N2 instead of to Caex or greymon. You both bucked the plan.
I do believe you slipped since there was no plan N1. Vote: Archmage Eternal
I do not find your logic consistent with a town mindset.
Why? The purpose of the plan was for Shark to collect coins in which to purchase the remaining investigation. Why would you even THINK that a confirmed town would waste a coin on anything else, when the stated purpose was to get the investigation? Sounds like you are just trying to muddy the waters and fear monger.
Also, I remind everyone of this...I remembered something was nagging at my mind the other night. Shark bid 2 coins on the investigation for EP (and lost). If I remember correctly, it was the most amount of coins that any one player could have had at the time.
So again, we now know that Shark started with 2 coins and gained 2 coins from pay out and he died with...WOW...it equals 4 coins! Tell me, now...how does your theories work because all mine are clearly wrong since you definitely, honestly gave Shark a coin, and all my theories were crap.
Also, stop trying to lul the town into thinking there are only 2 scum when 3 is common in a game this size.
And your "I know I'm not lying" is also, hogwash. It's exactly like a scum saying "I'm town...trust me :evillol:". It doesn't mean jack squat unless it is confirmable by a second person. Its the OTHER reason why pinky's plan was preferable over Caex. It's not that I trusted pinky, it was that logically, her plan made more sense.
And Ninja post...I was going to bring up the comment about AE...but he already did so. Still don't like either one of them. But at this point I'm hard pressed on who I would vote for more.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I'm trying to say we need to account for every possibility. Since we do not know how many coins Shark spent on any night we do not know how many coins he had going into N3. The only facts we know is that he had at least 1 coin at the start of N3 and died with 4 coins. Anything more is speculation.
I will amend what I said earlier about how at least one of the four players in the Shark pool is lying about giving him a coin: it can be possible if Shark spent a coin on the Dark Cult in addition to bidding on the Begger's Sect and the mafia spent a coin on the Holy Tabernacle to override Shark's protection. On N3 Shark could have received 4 coins, spent the rest of his of coins on the DC, bid 4 coins on the investigation, and been killed with 4 coins. I hadn't considered the Dark Cult/Holy Tabernacle before because I honestly haven't given them any thought for a few days now.
My "I'm not lying," was to show that while I'm evaluating the situation from somebody in the Shark pool, you shouldn't. Unless you are scum you have no way to know which of us in the Shark pool, if any, are lying. Despite it being very unlikely, you have the possibility that all of us are lying; for me I know I'm not so I don't have that possibility. That was all my statement was.
I keep pounding on the fact that this situation is a logic puzzle. We need to list every possibility and then discard certain ones. You are trying to state that all possibilities where Shark started N3 with less than 2 coins are not possible. I'm trying to say that is a bad move because the math points to him starting with at least 1 coin but does not suggest starting with at least more than that.
Nis, I think you are missing my point...either my design or miscommunication.
The point I'm trying to make, to me...as town...the purpose was for Shark to bid high for investigation. Thus, spending ANY COINS for Dark cult would be against a town mindset. It's one more coin (one more chance) the scum would have to win the investigation.
It's not that I don't think of everything, it's just that I don't find it necessary to list them all. Why list things that are so unlikely that the town ends up chasing it's tail? It ends up helping the scum in the long run, IMO. Better to list what is more likely. The town can focus on something likely/important instead of OMG the scum has some super secret whatchamacallit thing that is very unlikely to happen /sarcasm.
And actually if you go back and read... He should have started N3 with 3 coins.
Started the game with 2 (based on bid for EP). Gave 1 to Caex. Got 2 from payout. Died with 4. So again, it doesn't mean that you are telling the truth any more than any one else, simply because pinky replaced, AE and Zindy haven't really talked much and Shark, conveniently enough can't corroborate anyone's story.
TL;DR version = 2+2-1+x=4.....or 3+x=4
X of course being the # Shark got last night. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that the 2 scum never actually *sent* their coins and only one town did (for whatever reason).
And your math is not throwing me off, I just think we have to disagree fundamentally on mindset. I don't think Shark would waste his coins on anything but investigation. While we can think and talk about it...to me, it isn't a LOGICAL, town choice.
mod: I am requesting replacement do to my mother in law illness. Things have gotten worse for her since she has been hospitalized and I need to focus on her and helping the family during this time.
I think I see what you're saying now. We're just approaching this from different ends. I ran the numbers some more and I think my mistake is not emphasizing how many coins Shark started with. While it is safe to say that Shark started N3 >= 1 coin you are correct that it is far more likely he started N3 >= 2 coins.
What did happen to zindabad by the way? It has been five days.
I've moved into a new place and my internet isn't scheduled to be switched over until next friday (a week tomorrow) so I'm relying on dubious wireless until then, hence limited activity.
I'm a little surprised that people seem to have actually been following Pinky's plan. I sent to Shark because I thought the obvious scum NK was greymon, not because her plan dictated me to do so.
Speaking of pinky, I'm still pretty much set on lynching her, replacement or no. I'm sad to hear about her situation but it doesn't affect the game, and nothing any prospective replacement would have to say would change my mind about the clear and plain accumulation of evidence against her that I outlined in two case posts yesterday.
Consider my vote on Pinky. If you put a gun to my head I'd say it's her and Fox, as her D2 interactions with Iso (where she backed him and his reads 100% except where they involved Fox) didn't look too great, but it could easily be her and AE. Either way, it's her.
I'm a little surprised that people seem to have actually been following Pinky's plan. I sent to Shark because I thought the obvious scum NK was greymon, not because her plan dictated me to do so.
Speaking of pinky, I'm still pretty much set on lynching her, replacement or no. I'm sad to hear about her situation but it doesn't affect the game, and nothing any prospective replacement would have to say would change my mind about the clear and plain accumulation of evidence against her that I outlined in two case posts yesterday.
Consider my vote on Pinky. If you put a gun to my head I'd say it's her and Fox, as her D2 interactions with Iso (where she backed him and his reads 100% except where they involved Fox) didn't look too great, but it could easily be her and AE. Either way, it's her.
Why did you think the obvious NK was grey?
You had a voice, why didn't you mention anything about NOT following her plan? Oh wait, technically you did...sorta follow the plan.
I'll go back and read your case on pinky (and everyone else actually), however at this moment call me a raging skeptic considering you were trying to push the case on Iso (town). pinky and Iso both wanted to lynch Wheaties (scum)...really really badly. I've seen pinky's play, she is fully capable of forming her own opinions. If she believed I was scum, I'm preeetttyyy sure she would have been asking for my head along with Wheaties. What I really want to do, is look and see how your case on pinky compares to your case on Iso.
I'm going to work on a re-read...I know I missed a lot of detail when I wasn't feeling my best. Dunno when I'll be done because work & school and other RL crapola. Right now top 3 scum picks are AE, Nis and Zindy. I will of course be reading pinky as well. Even though I have her leaning town, her place there is by no means assured.
yes we're still playing, but I'm in the middle of a very hectic week, so hopefully it'll lighten up a bit and I'll be able to reread tonight/tomorrow/Monday.
I have some surprising suspicions at the moment, I'll address them after I have done some rereading.
Hi guys, any pressing matters before I start my reread?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Hi guys, any pressing matters before I start my reread?
DRey!
pinky had made a simple plan to follow N3 to help distribute the coins between Shark and grey (rather than the cluster**** on N2) This was the result of the plan. I've drawn my own conclusions a few posts after, but I'll let you catch up.
It also leaves the town hanging with the last investigation unclaimed. grey claimed early that he did not get it. Which leads me to believe that the scum team got it. If a townie had a few spare coins, they might have tried to bid...but if they won, I would assume they would have mentioned the results by now.
Ok, Dagger said Pinky sent her coin to Shark (and it looks like it went through despite him dying, I will confirm with Dagger). Anyway I don't fully understand the implications of her plan but I fully trust in her capacity of making great plans since I know she's town for sure.
Questions
a)Is anyone confirmed town?
b)Has everyone agree with Pinky's plan before night?
c)Has anyone not followed the plan? If yes for what reason?
EWP: Without reading anything and just from looking at the playerbase I'm pretty sure I know someone who's scum.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Ok, Dagger said Pinky sent her coin to Shark (and it looks like it went through despite him dying, I will confirm with Dagger). Anyway I don't fully understand the implications of her plan but I fully trust in her capacity of making great plans since I know she's town for sure.
Questions
a)Is anyone confirmed town?
b)Has everyone agree with Pinky's plan before night?
c)Has anyone not followed the plan? If yes for what reason?
EWP: Without reading anything and just from looking at the playerbase I'm pretty sure I know someone who's scum.
1. Only confirmed town is grey (I think is a slight suspicion him only because Wheaties did the investigation).
2. I personally don't recall anyone having an issue with pinky's plan
3. AE didn't follow N3's plan. Zindy...well you can see what he said himself...technically followed the plan. Still pondering over the wording, there is just something about it that feels wrong and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet
Just for the record, I didn't follow the plan that was in place on N2 but I was pretty vocal about my dislike of the N2 plan.
I'm saying that I didn't send to Shark because I was going along with obvscum pinky's (now DRey's) plan, I sent to Shark because I felt certain that greymon was not going to survive the night.
Considering that greymon is confirmed through investigating Wheat as scum at LyLo, it seemed plain to me that the scum would kill him, meaning Shark would be the one clear to win the investigation, meaning I should send to him.
@Fox: Actually, as I made abundantly clear, pinky did not actually want to lynch Wheat. She made only a token effort toward him on D2, preferring to stand on the sidelines and wring her hands over Iso's mislynch (the "golden girl" scum play I talked endlessly about yesterday.) As for having a voice, I made it very, very clear yesterday that I believed pinky was scum, so I think it goes without saying that I also therefore felt that any plan of hers should not be followed.
Pinky isn't even a question for me. She failed to contend my attacks during the day, instead caterwauling for a cop investigation overnight...a cop investigation that mysteriously failed to materialize. What a coincidence. Her plan was always to sweep my cases against her under the rug with the excuse of using a cop on one of us, which of course did not happen because the scumteam disrupted or won the cop bid last night, which she knew was going to happen.
Bottom line is that pinky lied about things she claimed she was doing which she actually wasn't, she lied about things she claimed she wasn't doing but actually was, she lied about her past experience with me, and she lied about her reasons for putting Albus at L-1 on D1. Then there's her very dubious interaction with Iso re: Foxlet and her equally dubious attempts to implicate Nis at the end of D3. She was scum beyond any doubt whatsoever, and I will stop at nothing to see her replacement lynched. Ask me anything you need to know concerning why we should be lynching DRey and I will point you to the relevant evidence.
I love when people say nothing all day long about a plan but are quick to defend themselves it means they are reading the thread closely but not enough to get involved in the conversation at hand.
Any reason why you haven't really talked much about the plan?
Second this post is where you defended and helped WG out:
Giving doubt that scum would manipulate town for any reason and support WG. Why did you support and help out WG again?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I have defended myself. Please quote what i didn't explain already? I pointed out comments I made about WG and Iso the best I could with the time I have.
second I stated multiple times a desire for either me or you to be investigated. You really think I'm scared?
Next you never answered the question of why you voted Iso over WG if you found WG obvious scum. Why do you keep avoiding that questions?
I have been asking for you to be investigated since day 2. I also said since people found me to be suspicious to investigate me so they would listen to me and stop the paranoia.
What I said about not arguing is lack of time. What is wrong with wanting an investigation Zindy? why is it scummy to demand to be investigated?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Also I think zindy quick defense of Nis and not waiting for a case in full and Nis quick defense adds them higher to my scum list together.
I don't see how zindy ingores that Wg called Nis null and makes the statement in bold as not a connection and the fact that zindy calls my L-1 quick but says nothing negative about Nis's hammer is a big connections. They don't even really talk to each other or about each other much. (scum tell according to sepel).
Those are my last thoughts for the end of the day.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
They hate us cause they ain't us.
All confirmed coins sent.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Not to sound impatient but yeah I got impatient.
Can't remember if my vote was needed or not but I see we're all ready to end the day
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Yes, my Lady.
~~~
Votecount
Wheat_Grinder (5) - Wheat_Grinder, Foxlet, SharkFinnigan, zindabad, pinkys_brain
It takes 5 to Lynch with 8 alive.
As of this post, Wheat_Grinder has been lynched.
~~~
Here lies the Lord of Wheat.
The Lord of Millstones.
The Lord of Wheels.
A Great House it was, even though the blood of traitors ran in its veins.
Yet when grounded to dust, all Houses are the same.
Lost in memories.
Forgotten in time.
Even more so, those of traitorous ilks.
The Fox nodded.
The Shark agreed.
The Salamander assented.
The Lady confirmed.
And the execution blade slashed downward.
A whisk of air.
A spray of red.
And the Millstone rolled on the ground, bloody and forlorn.
Lord of House Wheat_Grinder (Mafia) was eliminated on Day 3.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins has increased by 1.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins is now 1.
~~~
It is now Night 3.
There is a deadline of 72 hours for night action submissions. Day 3 will begin after all the night actions have been processed.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
The whole House murdered in a single Night, they say.
The rest fell to pieces soon after.
But even when down to Six the Great Houses were.
That was not a piece of news as great as this.
The Beggars Sect was a Sect no more.
It was through decades of gaining wealth.
Providing a service none could really offer.
And when Beggars are not what Beggars were.
How could there be Beggars when none is poor?
Lord of House SharkFinnigan (Town) was eliminated on Night 3.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins have increased by 4.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins are now 5.
The number of remaining services for the Beggars Sect is now 0.
~~~
It is now Day 4.
It takes 4 to Lynch with 6 alive.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Bah
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
Failure to do so for any reason will result in a huge push from me to be the day's lynch.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
As per the plan above, I gave mine to grey.
@AE: Why did you give a coin to shark?
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Shhhhhh.....
They hate us cause they ain't us.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
I sent a coin to Shark as per the plan.
Nis: Shark
zindabad: Shark
pinky: Shark
AE: Shark
Fox: greymon
Shark died with 4 coins. He had at least 1 coin yesterday since the bank paid out at the beginning of yesterday. There is no way he received 4 coins last night. One of those who claimed to have given Shark a coin is lying.
I know I'm not lying so out of the remaining three the person I find most suspect is AE. He has bucked the plan twice.
Did you get the last investigation greymon?
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Things have gotten worse for her since she has been hospitalized and I need to focus on her and helping the family during this time.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
I did not get the investigation, as I only received 1 coin. I think this clears Fox, in my opinion.
As for any further speculation, I believe it should wait until PB's replacement is found considering she is currently a suspect.
I'll be praying for your mother-in-law, PB. Hopefully everything gets better
@ Pinky - Good luck, it sounds like you've been dealing with a lot lately.
Of course there is NO WAY Shark would have gotten those coins because he was not alive to receive them. End of story.
Well we know now that there are 2 scum left, and they are currently hiding in the list. What better place to hide, 2 scum, 2 town = shenanigans. Not only that, but as alluded above, what better place was there to be than on Shark's "side" since they knew he was going to be the NK and they would ultimately get their coins back.
Now that grey has confirmed that he did not get the investigation we need decide where we go from there.
I'd actually like to continue the game somewhat so it doesn't totally stall out too much while waiting for Pinky's replacement. I've been in a few games now where people just kinda start loosing interest (which sucks).
That's not how it works. The Courier Post sends coins at the beginning of night before any other actions are processed. Shark received at most 3 coins last night.
Not necessarily. It could be that both you and greymon are scum and some townie is lying about giving Shark a coin. It could be you are scum and actually gave a coin to greymon. It could be greymon is scum and received a coin from you who are town. It could be you're scum who did not give a coin to greymon but the scum who claims to have given a coin to Shark actually game it greymon.
Some of these possibilities are certainly more likely than others. The most likely is that at least one scum is hiding among the four of us who claim to have given coins to Shark. That is one I am willing to assume since it has the most evidence going for it and satisfies Occam's Razor.
What I really want to know is why AE did not go along with the plan again.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Umm, no I didn't. Fox did N1. Not me.
Greymon is the towniest so I did not want to send it to him figuring he'd be the NK.
I didn't follow Pinkys plan as I do not trust Pinky. I followed what Greymon believed in scum not knowing what we were doing.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Well let me think here.
Lets look at the facts about Sharks coins we DO know, because I don't see your math. We know as a fact Shark got 2 coins from Guild of Coins pay out....We also know he never had a chance to use any coins. We also know he died with 4 coins.
So, for the easy to follow...that's 4-2=2. We need to track *2* coins.
Lets go by your assumption which is that Pay out is first and NK second...even assuming that Shark started the game with ZERO coins. He got 2 through GoC. So now he's at +2. If he died AFTER the Courier post rather than before, that's still ONLY 2 coins. Which still goes to 2 legitimate town gave their coins and 2 scum didn't (they wouldn't want to lose their coins), but claimed they did. He died with 4 coins!
On the flip side, if the NK goes "first" Shark could have started with as many as 2 coins because you would get your coins back when Shark died. It wouldn't have mattered if all 4 people gave their coins to him.
So, again, I don't see where you get 3 from.
As for me and grey being a "team". I know you are suspicious of me I'm town, but can't prove it unless someone investigated me last night or you lynch me Having said that, you trusted grey to be town even after WG (as confirmed scum) investigated him. Why now, when the attention shifts to Shark's "donors" are you less willing to believe him as town? Why did you not mention those suspicions D2 when I SAID THE SAME THING?
Grey was the only *confirmed* town, however it should also be noted that since he had used an investigation already he also had the fewest amount of coins, making Shark the logical scum target.
Had you followed the plan, grey could have confirmed that you sent the coin to him as well, which was the point of Pinky's plan. It wasn't that I trusted her, but the first plan was just "people send stuff to people", then take everyone's word for it
If I was scum, you know who I would have said I'd "send" it to N2? Caex. Dead men tell no tales...Just saying.
We know for a fact he got a coin D3 from the bank (we all did). We also all got a coin D2 from the bank. What we can't assume was that Shark did not spend that coin N2. Basically we don't know X. We do know that Shark received Y coins N3 and died with 4 coins:
Y must be between 0 and 3 because X cannot be less than 0 (we don't have credit here).
Since we have four people claiming to have sent coins to Shark N3 (Y), and we know he received those coins before he died, we know that at least one of those people are lying. That is all we know. Y cannot be 4. It must be between 0 and 3 (and I know it must be between 1 and 3 because I know I'm not lying. You don't).
We can't assume that all of the remaining scum (if we do have more than one remaining scum) are among the group that gave coins to Shark N3. It's a safe assumption that at least one of the people in the Shark group is scum, but then again, as I've already said, the last remaining scum could be you or greymon or both.
Basically I'm accounting for all possibilities. greymon is not confirmed town because there is no reliable investigation result on himself. He is firmly in my townie camp, but when listing possibilities I like to list them all no matter how remote. Part of this game is a logic puzzle and even a remote solution to a puzzle can be the correct one.
You did not send a coin N2. Fox sent a coin to you N2 instead of to Caex or greymon. You both bucked the plan.
I do believe you slipped since there was no plan N1.
Vote: Archmage Eternal
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Bull****!! I did send a coin. Way to try and falsify things. I see your trying to get a wagon going on me because I'm high on the suspect list, but using false info is scum.
Vote Nis
They hate us cause they ain't us.
You are correct. I was misremembering. pinky didn't send a coin because he forgot. You did send a coin. My mistake. Totally on me for not looking back a few pages. Sorry.
Unvote
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I do not find your logic consistent with a town mindset.
Why? The purpose of the plan was for Shark to collect coins in which to purchase the remaining investigation. Why would you even THINK that a confirmed town would waste a coin on anything else, when the stated purpose was to get the investigation? Sounds like you are just trying to muddy the waters and fear monger.
Also, I remind everyone of this...I remembered something was nagging at my mind the other night. Shark bid 2 coins on the investigation for EP (and lost). If I remember correctly, it was the most amount of coins that any one player could have had at the time.
So again, we now know that Shark started with 2 coins and gained 2 coins from pay out and he died with...WOW...it equals 4 coins! Tell me, now...how does your theories work because all mine are clearly wrong since you definitely, honestly gave Shark a coin, and all my theories were crap.
Also, stop trying to lul the town into thinking there are only 2 scum when 3 is common in a game this size.
And your "I know I'm not lying" is also, hogwash. It's exactly like a scum saying "I'm town...trust me :evillol:". It doesn't mean jack squat unless it is confirmable by a second person. Its the OTHER reason why pinky's plan was preferable over Caex. It's not that I trusted pinky, it was that logically, her plan made more sense.
And Ninja post...I was going to bring up the comment about AE...but he already did so. Still don't like either one of them. But at this point I'm hard pressed on who I would vote for more.
I'm not trying to say you're wrong. I'm trying to say we need to account for every possibility. Since we do not know how many coins Shark spent on any night we do not know how many coins he had going into N3. The only facts we know is that he had at least 1 coin at the start of N3 and died with 4 coins. Anything more is speculation.
I will amend what I said earlier about how at least one of the four players in the Shark pool is lying about giving him a coin: it can be possible if Shark spent a coin on the Dark Cult in addition to bidding on the Begger's Sect and the mafia spent a coin on the Holy Tabernacle to override Shark's protection. On N3 Shark could have received 4 coins, spent the rest of his of coins on the DC, bid 4 coins on the investigation, and been killed with 4 coins. I hadn't considered the Dark Cult/Holy Tabernacle before because I honestly haven't given them any thought for a few days now.
My "I'm not lying," was to show that while I'm evaluating the situation from somebody in the Shark pool, you shouldn't. Unless you are scum you have no way to know which of us in the Shark pool, if any, are lying. Despite it being very unlikely, you have the possibility that all of us are lying; for me I know I'm not so I don't have that possibility. That was all my statement was.
I keep pounding on the fact that this situation is a logic puzzle. We need to list every possibility and then discard certain ones. You are trying to state that all possibilities where Shark started N3 with less than 2 coins are not possible. I'm trying to say that is a bad move because the math points to him starting with at least 1 coin but does not suggest starting with at least more than that.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
4 = X + Y
X = number of coins Shark had going into N3. X >= 1
Y = number of coins Shark received. 0 <= Y <= 3
I think my +1 to the equation before was throwing Fox off. That +1 was supposed to be the coin Shark received D3. I've rolled it into X now.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
The point I'm trying to make, to me...as town...the purpose was for Shark to bid high for investigation. Thus, spending ANY COINS for Dark cult would be against a town mindset. It's one more coin (one more chance) the scum would have to win the investigation.
It's not that I don't think of everything, it's just that I don't find it necessary to list them all. Why list things that are so unlikely that the town ends up chasing it's tail? It ends up helping the scum in the long run, IMO. Better to list what is more likely. The town can focus on something likely/important instead of OMG the scum has some super secret whatchamacallit thing that is very unlikely to happen /sarcasm.
And actually if you go back and read... He should have started N3 with 3 coins.
Started the game with 2 (based on bid for EP). Gave 1 to Caex. Got 2 from payout. Died with 4. So again, it doesn't mean that you are telling the truth any more than any one else, simply because pinky replaced, AE and Zindy haven't really talked much and Shark, conveniently enough can't corroborate anyone's story.
TL;DR version = 2+2-1+x=4.....or 3+x=4
X of course being the # Shark got last night. I'm going to take a shot in the dark and say that the 2 scum never actually *sent* their coins and only one town did (for whatever reason).
And your math is not throwing me off, I just think we have to disagree fundamentally on mindset. I don't think Shark would waste his coins on anything but investigation. While we can think and talk about it...to me, it isn't a LOGICAL, town choice.
Nis (1) - Archmage Eternal
It takes 4 to Lynch with 6 alive.
Acknowledged, my Lady.
A replacement will be sought.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I think I see what you're saying now. We're just approaching this from different ends. I ran the numbers some more and I think my mistake is not emphasizing how many coins Shark started with. While it is safe to say that Shark started N3 >= 1 coin you are correct that it is far more likely he started N3 >= 2 coins.
What did happen to zindabad by the way? It has been five days.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I'm a little surprised that people seem to have actually been following Pinky's plan. I sent to Shark because I thought the obvious scum NK was greymon, not because her plan dictated me to do so.
Speaking of pinky, I'm still pretty much set on lynching her, replacement or no. I'm sad to hear about her situation but it doesn't affect the game, and nothing any prospective replacement would have to say would change my mind about the clear and plain accumulation of evidence against her that I outlined in two case posts yesterday.
Consider my vote on Pinky. If you put a gun to my head I'd say it's her and Fox, as her D2 interactions with Iso (where she backed him and his reads 100% except where they involved Fox) didn't look too great, but it could easily be her and AE. Either way, it's her.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Why did you think the obvious NK was grey?
You had a voice, why didn't you mention anything about NOT following her plan? Oh wait, technically you did...sorta follow the plan.
I'll go back and read your case on pinky (and everyone else actually), however at this moment call me a raging skeptic considering you were trying to push the case on Iso (town). pinky and Iso both wanted to lynch Wheaties (scum)...really really badly. I've seen pinky's play, she is fully capable of forming her own opinions. If she believed I was scum, I'm preeetttyyy sure she would have been asking for my head along with Wheaties. What I really want to do, is look and see how your case on pinky compares to your case on Iso.
I'm going to work on a re-read...I know I missed a lot of detail when I wasn't feeling my best. Dunno when I'll be done because work & school and other RL crapola. Right now top 3 scum picks are AE, Nis and Zindy. I will of course be reading pinky as well. Even though I have her leaning town, her place there is by no means assured.
Thats what I thought too.
We still playing this game guys?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I have some surprising suspicions at the moment, I'll address them after I have done some rereading.
By friends or foes, it was not clear.
But slain she was, and that was clear.
By rights of succession, it was to be her flesh and blood.
But intrigue and power play made that not so.
Thus another rose on the ashes of her name.
~~~
Effective immediately, DRey has replaced pinkys_brain.
Lord of House DRey
Emblem: A white and black skull with an eyepatch
~~~
Votecount
Nis (1) - Archmage Eternal
It takes 4 to Lynch with 6 alive.
~~~
And like a great big serpent coiling to strike, the City Watch began to stir...
Soon.
It will be soon.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
DRey!
pinky had made a simple plan to follow N3 to help distribute the coins between Shark and grey (rather than the cluster**** on N2) This was the result of the plan. I've drawn my own conclusions a few posts after, but I'll let you catch up.
It also leaves the town hanging with the last investigation unclaimed. grey claimed early that he did not get it. Which leads me to believe that the scum team got it. If a townie had a few spare coins, they might have tried to bid...but if they won, I would assume they would have mentioned the results by now.
Questions
a)Is anyone confirmed town?
b)Has everyone agree with Pinky's plan before night?
c)Has anyone not followed the plan? If yes for what reason?
EWP: Without reading anything and just from looking at the playerbase I'm pretty sure I know someone who's scum.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
1. Only confirmed town is grey (I think is a slight suspicion him only because Wheaties did the investigation).
2. I personally don't recall anyone having an issue with pinky's plan
3. AE didn't follow N3's plan. Zindy...well you can see what he said himself...technically followed the plan. Still pondering over the wording, there is just something about it that feels wrong and I haven't been able to put my finger on it yet
Just for the record, I didn't follow the plan that was in place on N2 but I was pretty vocal about my dislike of the N2 plan.
Considering that greymon is confirmed through investigating Wheat as scum at LyLo, it seemed plain to me that the scum would kill him, meaning Shark would be the one clear to win the investigation, meaning I should send to him.
@Fox: Actually, as I made abundantly clear, pinky did not actually want to lynch Wheat. She made only a token effort toward him on D2, preferring to stand on the sidelines and wring her hands over Iso's mislynch (the "golden girl" scum play I talked endlessly about yesterday.) As for having a voice, I made it very, very clear yesterday that I believed pinky was scum, so I think it goes without saying that I also therefore felt that any plan of hers should not be followed.
Pinky isn't even a question for me. She failed to contend my attacks during the day, instead caterwauling for a cop investigation overnight...a cop investigation that mysteriously failed to materialize. What a coincidence. Her plan was always to sweep my cases against her under the rug with the excuse of using a cop on one of us, which of course did not happen because the scumteam disrupted or won the cop bid last night, which she knew was going to happen.
Bottom line is that pinky lied about things she claimed she was doing which she actually wasn't, she lied about things she claimed she wasn't doing but actually was, she lied about her past experience with me, and she lied about her reasons for putting Albus at L-1 on D1. Then there's her very dubious interaction with Iso re: Foxlet and her equally dubious attempts to implicate Nis at the end of D3. She was scum beyond any doubt whatsoever, and I will stop at nothing to see her replacement lynched. Ask me anything you need to know concerning why we should be lynching DRey and I will point you to the relevant evidence.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."