One thing that worried me is this quote from Sheldon, "Not that I dislike it, but Kiki-Jiki may be becoming a problem card in the format. It's starting to look like a card that quite easily creates many infinite combos, so we're going to take a serious look at it."
/being rant
Seriously.. Mono-R needs a nerf?!??!!?! Not Palinchron, which is used exclusively for infinite mana combos, or revelark, or karmic guide? No, let's pick out the one gem in Mono-R
/end rant
The comments on your list are good the one guy suggested maze of ith that looks pretty good here.
This deck definitey has the mana base to support it, and Maze is a staple for a reason. Not sure that it goes with the aggressive theme of Marton, but I guess only through testing will you really know its place.
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Amazing Avy & Sig by mchief111 @ Rising Studios [4/22/11]
The comments on your list are good the one guy suggested maze of ith that looks pretty good here.
Maze can be used to remove marton from combat but with my strategy I cast him the turn I go off and kill everyone so i dont really care if he dies in my final push because everyone is probably dying.
As a stall option, Maze of Ith is decent. Keep in mind though that hexproof and shrouded creatures cant be targeted with this though and most of the targets I would probably want to use a maze on would be voltron commanders which tend to use.
The fact that Maze of Ith doesn't tap for mana makes it a little harder in my book to include here. I could probably go for Mystifying Maze instead to be honest but I like a lot of the nonbasics I already have and I keep a high basic count for those 3 mana doublers.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Warp World, Vicious Shadows, In the Web of War, Tears of Rage, all of the mana doublers increase our red creatures to be more lethal than opponents, we have a lot of big token spawners that are not just creatures who do them as well so we can easily out number our opponents creatures.
Humility mainly hurts our token spawning and marton as a wincon. Focus on filtering and drawing cards in the case you run into it and just keep digging and mass producing as best as you can.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yay, mono-red tokens! Before I say that you should totally check out my Homura list since we have a slightly similar goal and means of getting there, I felt like I should probably make some sort of suggestion to be productive. Not sure if it's been mentioned by anyone else, but
Yes, it's five mana to cast. Yes, it only drops one token per turn. However, that token drop is at instant-speed whenever you want it, and the token drop is free. Furthermore, if this sticks around long enough, you might just get to use its second ability to fetch the Battlesphere too, also at instant speed.
It might be a bit too slow if your deck is one that aims to consistently win by turn X, but i've always loved the Turbine as it's not only consistent token drops and possibility to drop the big Myr if the tokens stick, but it also takes no mana investment after the initial cast, which is rather awesome.
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Twitch: MTGJankmaster; lurking>streaming (but maybe one day when I get good at magic)
xMage: Jankmaster Commander - Now Playing WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUWRHomura, Human AscendantRRGBorborygmos EnragedGRURMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRBURSaheeli, the GiftedRUWRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
I tend to focus on largescale tokens more so than tokens over time. I used to run more of these tap for token sort of cards but due to wrath effects it becomes really hard to actually generate enough tokens to go off with a predictable token per turn style of spawning.
My original list did more of the slow spawning tokens but now I try to focus on cards that for the most part generate 4+ tokens in one shot.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
ISB,
Thoughts on Rites of Initiation as an added finisher? I know Marton gives an amazing buff, this could make your alpha strike a turn early perhaps? (discard Anger as well)
ISB,
Thoughts on Rites of Initiation as an added finisher? I know Marton gives an amazing buff, this could make your alpha strike a turn early perhaps? (discard Anger as well)
I like it for the low mana however I dont really find myself with huge hands that I can discard. Overall I haven't really felt I need more wincons currently but it would be one to consider and possibly play with.
Keep in mind with the card, the discard is at random so in my mind it is best when you want to ditch your whole hand because it will be difficult to control the effect.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I threw together a version of this deck without the two $80+ dollar cards and it's very interesting, unlike any deck I've played. Have you considered Precursor Golem?
He's like Emrakul Hatcher, but slightly worse. He trades the extra creature and the ability to produce mana for stronger tokens. I might play him over Rapacious One. I never end up connecting with him in the games I play.
I threw together a version of this deck without the two $80+ dollar cards and it's very interesting, unlike any deck I've played. Have you considered Precursor Golem?
He's like Emrakul Hatcher, but slightly worse. He trades the extra creature and the ability to produce mana for stronger tokens. I might play him over Rapacious One. I never end up connecting with him in the games I play.
The golem has been sort of a creature I considered a number of times. I think that Beetleback Chief is probably overall better than the golem due to costing less and being a goblin thus working off other angles of the deck and being more difficult to spot remove.
That being said though... Rapacious One can be an absolute monster. Due to all of the hast outlets he often swings the turn he comes down. He has trample as well so he has a very high chance of spawning some guys quickly and a large number of them at that. Most groups dont think about using spot removal on him either until the deck kills them a few times
In the end though... use what works for you. I would suggest the Beetleback Chief over the golem but I dont think either option is terrible.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I'm trying to make a Jor Kadeen token deck that works, and want to use this deck as inspiration. Ramp, sit back, drop tokens and Jor with haste and go to town.
Any thoughts as to what white would add to the party in terms of the strategy of the deck?
Things I'm already doing/considering: Land Tax and Scroll Rack.
For tokens: Martial Coup, Entreat the Angels, White Sun's Zenith, and maybe Storm Herd. Elspeth, Knight-Errant of course.
Probably going to lean away from the wraths/spot removal as they're not really what this deck wants to be doing.
With Jor Kadeen, the artifact armies in a can are even more important. I know it's not fast, but Pentavus might be a good option.
Well, first thing first, students are back in school so I managed to pick up a few games where I sort of cycled through most all of my decks winning.... most games I think loosing one to a lame Magister Sphinx while playing my Balthor deck.
So, I am up first and I topdeck a colorless land and Gamble my way into a Sol Ring. I discard the Coalition Relic to the gamble which sucks but with my options it is probably the best situation for the card.
Turn two I topdeck a Pilgrim's Eye, hit the Sol Ring into play and drop the colorless land I had in hand plus the Pilgrim's Eye grabbing my second colored land that I will need.
Turn three I hit my Reforge the Soul, the Skullbriar player Naturalizes my Sol Ring in response :(. I suppose I have the fact that he didn't just do that before I could refill my hand though.
I get to swing with the Rapacious One and set up to kill someone next turn with a Winding Canyons in play with mana up to cast Marton. I end up eating a Living Death which flips all my stuff in the graveyard and both of my opponents flip 2-3 nice creatures back thanks to my earlier Reforge the Soul. I sac my eldrazi spawns for mana and activate the canyons to flip Mad Prophet and Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician just for kicks to burn up some of the spare mana. Just as a side note, I probably could have hung back and played the Prophet at the end of my opponents turns and waited on Ib but it didn't really matter that much. Ib was bad at that time though so I really should have filtered him out with the prophet though.
I go ahead and start the recovery process dropping in a Snake Basket which I kick out for 8 in the same turn. Thank you for the mana Gauntlet of Might I drop in a Goblin Bombardment around here so I have a little bit of control options.
Then the really bad happens, Momir Vig drops a Stormtide Leviathan which stops both Skullbriar and myself. Luckily for me, Skullbriar has a bunch of like 6/6 zombie tokens as he has all these anthem zombie things going on. Due to my deck's bad removal he focuses on Skullbriar who has more of a chance of having a doom blade and running him over. I could sac like my whole token wave to killing the Leviathan but then I just die to zombies...
Vig is getting really close to killing skullbriar right now but is sort of freaking out over me. He has cloned the damn Stormtide Leviathan and backed them up with Spearbreaker Behemoth making it mostly impossible to run around. He finishes Skullbriar off and starts in on me. I have about one turn left to live based on his damage output.
It was a good game and it again cemented exactly why I run alternate wincons in the deck for times when people just hate on combat. I honestly looking at the game probably could have just killed him with the Goblin Bombardment of a ton of tokens to the face but meh. It was a good one either way.
I'm trying to make a Jor Kadeen token deck that works, and want to use this deck as inspiration. Ramp, sit back, drop tokens and Jor with haste and go to town.
Any thoughts as to what white would add to the party in terms of the strategy of the deck?
Things I'm already doing/considering: Land Tax and Scroll Rack.
For tokens: Martial Coup, Entreat the Angels, White Sun's Zenith, and maybe Storm Herd. Elspeth, Knight-Errant of course.
Probably going to lean away from the wraths/spot removal as they're not really what this deck wants to be doing.
With Jor Kadeen, the artifact armies in a can are even more important. I know it's not fast, but Pentavus might be a good option.
Thoughts?
Jor Kadeen is a decent general. The reason I stuck to Marton was that I felt that overall he was a much more explosive wincon. The advantage of Jor though is that you wont have to rely as much on haste as I do as your commander being in play is enough to have metalcraft active.
Your finisher will be less explosive but easier to use do to not needing to attack and being a good attacker if he is.
Your card draw is going to be just as bad... white has little to contribute to that problem.
You might need to be a little less all in on your approach. Having a less explosive finisher means that it will take longer to finish the game. Try to use some of the nice value engines such as Sunforger to pick up some value though. Other than that though... I haven't really played with the idea too much. You might go to someone else who has been playing with the idea a bit more.
When building this deck I didnt take any sort of tribe into consideration. On occasion this sort of buff will work out but in my experience it is to a lesser degree than a lot of the other buffs in here. Vicious Shadows, Warp World, Tears of Rage, and Marton Stromgald all work much better for the deck as it stands now.
When the deck was early I did test it out a bit. After a while I moved to using Eldrazi Monument instead. Sometime later I shifted to Akroma's Memorial which I have found to have a good place in this deck.
While Coat of Arms can still have a potent effect, I just felt as though it were a worse effect than other options I had available. I feel like Akroma's Memorial which in the progression of the deck replaced Coat of Arms does a better job allowing me to set up into a large win rather than a potential one player kill which is probably what I would be pushing with Coat of Arms in my current build. There has been sort of an upswing in the amount of goblins in the deck though so while I am not saying it would be a lot better it could be a little better now than it used to be.
EDIT: wow... realized it had been some time since I really got a good number of games in with Marton... I haven't been playing as much on trice though because I don't really care for the lack of personal interaction or the sort of lack of politics. It was fun to get back into playing with actual people. I still occasionally pilot Marton on trice because he doesn't get hate mongered like anything blue I might bring out. If I play something other than Marton or a blue deck on trice though I inevitably sit down with blue.combo.deck though which pisses me off.
You may have addressed this guy and I missed it, but what about Goblin Bushwhacker? Two mana to give your team haste and +1 is pretty good. Searchable with Goblin Matron. I'm thinking of trying it out in my mad rush version of Jor Kadeen tokens.
You may have addressed this guy and I missed it, but what about Goblin Bushwhacker? Two mana to give your team haste and +1 is pretty good. Searchable with Goblin Matron. I'm thinking of trying it out in my mad rush version of Jor Kadeen tokens.
The reason I don't really run him is that the pump in my own list is quite negligible. The haste is nice but I cant use the haste off of Moggcatcher which is unfortunate. In a list with Jor you might notice a better payoff as you wont has as big of built in buff.
Overall... not too bad but the big downside is that when it comes to big X spawning tokens you will have to cut back on your spawning to give them haste the same turn with this guy.
In then end, I think you are better off with some haste enablers that don't have to come down the same turn but he is probably worth trying out.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Working on my list I just realized that as awesome as Akroma's Memorial is, it basically negates Kiki-Jiki's ability. Has this ever come up in a game?
Yes, actually it has before. The trade off is that while I have Memorial in play, I am usually winning so much that it doesnt matter. I can swing out, defend myself still, and not even bothering with trading in combat on defense because of first strike.
It has hit me before, but generally the value of the memorial is so huge anyways that it doesn't matter. Just keep Kiki in hand in that situation or tutor for one of the many other great goblins we have available.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I just ordered a Marton to stick in Jor actually. (he's not easy to find by the way) I have this picture of Jor Kadeen wandering around New Phyrexia, all depressed because he can't get an army going to inspire. One day he bumps into Marton who listens to his story. "Ah, soldiers, myrs, pentavites... they're slow, your opponent sees it coming. My friend have you met the goblins?"
I love the idea of a Jor led goblin deck, where the hordes descend in one hasty turn. The one piece I'm having trouble justifying is the white. Like you said, white tokens are slower. Why not just go with a monored build like yours? Ultimately Jor Kadeen is just one of my pet cards, but I may have to try your Marton deck to see how it plays.
Yes, the goblins are very explosive. As much as I like the idea of a boros deck, the sheer explosive power of Marton has kept me in mono color.
I just played a game on trice where I hit a turn 7 Warp World for 16. Unfortunately it was the absolute worst outcome as to what my opponents flipped. As far as card quantity went, I blew them away and almost could have won on the spot. The downside was that the bant player flipped Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and the Ghave player flipped Null Rod. I spent the next like 10 turns crying and watching the board. Finally the Ghave player on their way out of the game popped a Crime / Punishment for x=7 and I murdered everyone with a swarm of 45 creatures the following turn combining a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Siege-Gang Commander + Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician + Krenko, Mob Boss and slammed Marton to finish it off. Thank god for the one Caged Sun I had because it let me sort of crawl my way to a defense.
Overall though... Null Rod + Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in play together is bad for this deck... I managed to win because I stuck it out and mustered a defense which the other two players were unable to do.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Yes, the goblins are very explosive. As much as I like the idea of a boros deck, the sheer explosive power of Marton has kept me in mono color.
I just played a game on trice where I hit a turn 7 Warp World for 16. Unfortunately it was the absolute worst outcome as to what my opponents flipped. As far as card quantity went, I blew them away and almost could have won on the spot. The downside was that the bant player flipped Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and the Ghave player flipped Null Rod. I spent the next like 10 turns crying and watching the board. Finally the Ghave player on their way out of the game popped a Crime / Punishment for x=7 and I murdered everyone with a swarm of 45 creatures the following turn combining a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Siege-Gang Commander + Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician + Krenko, Mob Boss and slammed Marton to finish it off. Thank god for the one Caged Sun I had because it let me sort of crawl my way to a defense.
Overall though... Null Rod + Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in play together is bad for this deck... I managed to win because I stuck it out and mustered a defense which the other two players were unable to do.
Timing is everything. No dedicated removal makes it a waiting game it seems when a token hoser lands. That's probably one of the main benefits of running a boros build is that white can remove anything. It just means diluting the card pool.
Timing is everything. No dedicated removal makes it a waiting game it seems when a token hoser lands. That's probably one of the main benefits of running a boros build is that white can remove anything. It just means diluting the card pool.
There are still a few options to getting arround that even.
1) Warp World / Vicious Shadows both of these cards push past the problem. Warp will put them away temporarily and shadows will let you just kill that player with your tokens.
2) Kozelek annihilation. Due to all of the haste outlets its often that he comes out swinging and will trigger a bare minimum of once.
3) Gauntlet pump. Its funny but Gauntlet of Might, Gauntlet of Power, and Caged Sun, can actually push through quite a number of these effects. That is part of why I sprung for having all three in my list.
There are actually a ton of answers I could run if I wanted to to get through these situations. I found it better to run what I have now than to try to include things like Karn Liberated, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Spine of Ish Sah, and Steel Helkite. Adding white does open more options of removing them but again, remember that with adding more answers to the deck you will have more problems going off and these colors suck for card draw.
Anyways, it was a rough game because I had tons of my card draw in hand but most of it were artifacts that activated which were disabled by the stupid null rod lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Super creative deck deserves the recognition.
One thing that worried me is this quote from Sheldon, "Not that I dislike it, but Kiki-Jiki may be becoming a problem card in the format. It's starting to look like a card that quite easily creates many infinite combos, so we're going to take a serious look at it."
/being rant
Seriously.. Mono-R needs a nerf?!??!!?! Not Palinchron, which is used exclusively for infinite mana combos, or revelark, or karmic guide? No, let's pick out the one gem in Mono-R
/end rant
Congrats again on the feature Brian, but I do have one question... how does Jenara feel about all of this?
Damia http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=410191
DDFT Legacyhttp://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=505247
Domain Zoo http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10212429#post10212429
This deck definitey has the mana base to support it, and Maze is a staple for a reason. Not sure that it goes with the aggressive theme of Marton, but I guess only through testing will you really know its place.
Maze can be used to remove marton from combat but with my strategy I cast him the turn I go off and kill everyone so i dont really care if he dies in my final push because everyone is probably dying.
As a stall option, Maze of Ith is decent. Keep in mind though that hexproof and shrouded creatures cant be targeted with this though and most of the targets I would probably want to use a maze on would be voltron commanders which tend to use.
The fact that Maze of Ith doesn't tap for mana makes it a little harder in my book to include here. I could probably go for Mystifying Maze instead to be honest but I like a lot of the nonbasics I already have and I keep a high basic count for those 3 mana doublers.
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[Modern] Allies
How do you handle Humility?
Humility mainly hurts our token spawning and marton as a wincon. Focus on filtering and drawing cards in the case you run into it and just keep digging and mass producing as best as you can.
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[Modern] Allies
Myr Turbine
Yes, it's five mana to cast. Yes, it only drops one token per turn. However, that token drop is at instant-speed whenever you want it, and the token drop is free. Furthermore, if this sticks around long enough, you might just get to use its second ability to fetch the Battlesphere too, also at instant speed.
It might be a bit too slow if your deck is one that aims to consistently win by turn X, but i've always loved the Turbine as it's not only consistent token drops and possibility to drop the big Myr if the tokens stick, but it also takes no mana investment after the initial cast, which is rather awesome.
xMage: Jankmaster
Commander - Now Playing
WUBSen Triplets - "If you shake my hand, better count your fingersBUW RHomura, Human AscendantR RGBorborygmos EnragedGR URMelek, Izzet ParagonRU
Commander - Still Brewing
BRGGyrus, Waker of CorpsesGRB URSaheeli, the GiftedRU WRJor Kadeen, the PrevailerRW
My original list did more of the slow spawning tokens but now I try to focus on cards that for the most part generate 4+ tokens in one shot.
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[Modern] Allies
Thoughts on Rites of Initiation as an added finisher? I know Marton gives an amazing buff, this could make your alpha strike a turn early perhaps? (discard Anger as well)
I like it for the low mana however I dont really find myself with huge hands that I can discard. Overall I haven't really felt I need more wincons currently but it would be one to consider and possibly play with.
Keep in mind with the card, the discard is at random so in my mind it is best when you want to ditch your whole hand because it will be difficult to control the effect.
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[Modern] Allies
He's like Emrakul Hatcher, but slightly worse. He trades the extra creature and the ability to produce mana for stronger tokens. I might play him over Rapacious One. I never end up connecting with him in the games I play.
The golem has been sort of a creature I considered a number of times. I think that Beetleback Chief is probably overall better than the golem due to costing less and being a goblin thus working off other angles of the deck and being more difficult to spot remove.
That being said though... Rapacious One can be an absolute monster. Due to all of the hast outlets he often swings the turn he comes down. He has trample as well so he has a very high chance of spawning some guys quickly and a large number of them at that. Most groups dont think about using spot removal on him either until the deck kills them a few times
In the end though... use what works for you. I would suggest the Beetleback Chief over the golem but I dont think either option is terrible.
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[Modern] Allies
Any thoughts as to what white would add to the party in terms of the strategy of the deck?
Things I'm already doing/considering:
Land Tax and Scroll Rack.
For tokens: Martial Coup, Entreat the Angels, White Sun's Zenith, and maybe Storm Herd. Elspeth, Knight-Errant of course.
Probably going to lean away from the wraths/spot removal as they're not really what this deck wants to be doing.
With Jor Kadeen, the artifact armies in a can are even more important. I know it's not fast, but Pentavus might be a good option.
Thoughts?
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
GAME RESULTS:
With my red deck we ended up playing a 3 Player FFA game. My opponents for this game were Momir Vig, Simic Visionary (toolbox creatures mostly non combo) and Skullbriar, the Walking Grave (Newer player and new deck).
Opening hand is.... bad to say the least. I have a Solemn Simulacrum, Reforge the Soul, and a single land. I aggressively mulligan and end up with a single Mountain, Gamble, Reforge the Soul, and Coalition Relic as my staring hand.
So, I am up first and I topdeck a colorless land and Gamble my way into a Sol Ring. I discard the Coalition Relic to the gamble which sucks but with my options it is probably the best situation for the card.
Turn two I topdeck a Pilgrim's Eye, hit the Sol Ring into play and drop the colorless land I had in hand plus the Pilgrim's Eye grabbing my second colored land that I will need.
Turn three I hit my Reforge the Soul, the Skullbriar player Naturalizes my Sol Ring in response :(. I suppose I have the fact that he didn't just do that before I could refill my hand though.
I ramp a bit more with a Gauntlet of Might and manage a like turn 5 Rapacious One.
I get to swing with the Rapacious One and set up to kill someone next turn with a Winding Canyons in play with mana up to cast Marton. I end up eating a Living Death which flips all my stuff in the graveyard and both of my opponents flip 2-3 nice creatures back thanks to my earlier Reforge the Soul. I sac my eldrazi spawns for mana and activate the canyons to flip Mad Prophet and Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician just for kicks to burn up some of the spare mana. Just as a side note, I probably could have hung back and played the Prophet at the end of my opponents turns and waited on Ib but it didn't really matter that much. Ib was bad at that time though so I really should have filtered him out with the prophet though.
I go ahead and start the recovery process dropping in a Snake Basket which I kick out for 8 in the same turn. Thank you for the mana Gauntlet of Might I drop in a Goblin Bombardment around here so I have a little bit of control options.
Then the really bad happens, Momir Vig drops a Stormtide Leviathan which stops both Skullbriar and myself. Luckily for me, Skullbriar has a bunch of like 6/6 zombie tokens as he has all these anthem zombie things going on. Due to my deck's bad removal he focuses on Skullbriar who has more of a chance of having a doom blade and running him over. I could sac like my whole token wave to killing the Leviathan but then I just die to zombies...
I kick into filter for a wincon sort of a situation and drop some goblin tokens in with Goblin Matron fetching Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker with Siege-Gang Commander in hand. I drop them both in, copy the gang, drop a Slate of Ancestry and kick off it for like 18 cards. I draw into bumkis....
Vig is getting really close to killing skullbriar right now but is sort of freaking out over me. He has cloned the damn Stormtide Leviathan and backed them up with Spearbreaker Behemoth making it mostly impossible to run around. He finishes Skullbriar off and starts in on me. I have about one turn left to live based on his damage output.
I go ahead and drop a Myr Battlesphere, Copy Myr Battlesphere with Kiki-Jiki. I sac Myr Battlesphere to my Goblin Bombardment and reanimate him with a Goblin Wielder eating one of my tapped mana stones. I then tap all of my lands for mana and eat all my mountains to Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician giving me another 6 goblins. I activate my Slate of Ancestry to draw 36 cards. Kick out a Vicious Shadows and ram my critters through the Goblin Bombardment for the win.
It was a good game and it again cemented exactly why I run alternate wincons in the deck for times when people just hate on combat. I honestly looking at the game probably could have just killed him with the Goblin Bombardment of a ton of tokens to the face but meh. It was a good one either way.
Jor Kadeen is a decent general. The reason I stuck to Marton was that I felt that overall he was a much more explosive wincon. The advantage of Jor though is that you wont have to rely as much on haste as I do as your commander being in play is enough to have metalcraft active.
Your finisher will be less explosive but easier to use do to not needing to attack and being a good attacker if he is.
Your card draw is going to be just as bad... white has little to contribute to that problem.
You might need to be a little less all in on your approach. Having a less explosive finisher means that it will take longer to finish the game. Try to use some of the nice value engines such as Sunforger to pick up some value though. Other than that though... I haven't really played with the idea too much. You might go to someone else who has been playing with the idea a bit more.
When building this deck I didnt take any sort of tribe into consideration. On occasion this sort of buff will work out but in my experience it is to a lesser degree than a lot of the other buffs in here. Vicious Shadows, Warp World, Tears of Rage, and Marton Stromgald all work much better for the deck as it stands now.
When the deck was early I did test it out a bit. After a while I moved to using Eldrazi Monument instead. Sometime later I shifted to Akroma's Memorial which I have found to have a good place in this deck.
While Coat of Arms can still have a potent effect, I just felt as though it were a worse effect than other options I had available. I feel like Akroma's Memorial which in the progression of the deck replaced Coat of Arms does a better job allowing me to set up into a large win rather than a potential one player kill which is probably what I would be pushing with Coat of Arms in my current build. There has been sort of an upswing in the amount of goblins in the deck though so while I am not saying it would be a lot better it could be a little better now than it used to be.
EDIT: wow... realized it had been some time since I really got a good number of games in with Marton... I haven't been playing as much on trice though because I don't really care for the lack of personal interaction or the sort of lack of politics. It was fun to get back into playing with actual people. I still occasionally pilot Marton on trice because he doesn't get hate mongered like anything blue I might bring out. If I play something other than Marton or a blue deck on trice though I inevitably sit down with blue.combo.deck though which pisses me off.
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The reason I don't really run him is that the pump in my own list is quite negligible. The haste is nice but I cant use the haste off of Moggcatcher which is unfortunate. In a list with Jor you might notice a better payoff as you wont has as big of built in buff.
Overall... not too bad but the big downside is that when it comes to big X spawning tokens you will have to cut back on your spawning to give them haste the same turn with this guy.
In then end, I think you are better off with some haste enablers that don't have to come down the same turn but he is probably worth trying out.
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Yes, actually it has before. The trade off is that while I have Memorial in play, I am usually winning so much that it doesnt matter. I can swing out, defend myself still, and not even bothering with trading in combat on defense because of first strike.
It has hit me before, but generally the value of the memorial is so huge anyways that it doesn't matter. Just keep Kiki in hand in that situation or tutor for one of the many other great goblins we have available.
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[Modern] Allies
I love the idea of a Jor led goblin deck, where the hordes descend in one hasty turn. The one piece I'm having trouble justifying is the white. Like you said, white tokens are slower. Why not just go with a monored build like yours? Ultimately Jor Kadeen is just one of my pet cards, but I may have to try your Marton deck to see how it plays.
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I just played a game on trice where I hit a turn 7 Warp World for 16. Unfortunately it was the absolute worst outcome as to what my opponents flipped. As far as card quantity went, I blew them away and almost could have won on the spot. The downside was that the bant player flipped Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite, and the Ghave player flipped Null Rod. I spent the next like 10 turns crying and watching the board. Finally the Ghave player on their way out of the game popped a Crime / Punishment for x=7 and I murdered everyone with a swarm of 45 creatures the following turn combining a Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker + Siege-Gang Commander + Ib Halfheart, Goblin Tactician + Krenko, Mob Boss and slammed Marton to finish it off. Thank god for the one Caged Sun I had because it let me sort of crawl my way to a defense.
Overall though... Null Rod + Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite in play together is bad for this deck... I managed to win because I stuck it out and mustered a defense which the other two players were unable to do.
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[Modern] Allies
Timing is everything. No dedicated removal makes it a waiting game it seems when a token hoser lands. That's probably one of the main benefits of running a boros build is that white can remove anything. It just means diluting the card pool.
People in my meta like Aether Flash and Night of Souls' Betrayal. One game a Darien player never landed a single soldier because of the Flash.
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There are still a few options to getting arround that even.
1) Warp World / Vicious Shadows both of these cards push past the problem. Warp will put them away temporarily and shadows will let you just kill that player with your tokens.
2) Kozelek annihilation. Due to all of the haste outlets its often that he comes out swinging and will trigger a bare minimum of once.
3) Gauntlet pump. Its funny but Gauntlet of Might, Gauntlet of Power, and Caged Sun, can actually push through quite a number of these effects. That is part of why I sprung for having all three in my list.
There are actually a ton of answers I could run if I wanted to to get through these situations. I found it better to run what I have now than to try to include things like Karn Liberated, Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre, Spine of Ish Sah, and Steel Helkite. Adding white does open more options of removing them but again, remember that with adding more answers to the deck you will have more problems going off and these colors suck for card draw.
Anyways, it was a rough game because I had tons of my card draw in hand but most of it were artifacts that activated which were disabled by the stupid null rod lol.
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