Look at Lyserg's storm combo deck for a perfect example. His claim about reliable T4 is not an exaggeration, for those that haven't played against it.
What in the world are we supposed to do against this? Incredibly frustrating!
Why oh why do all-in combo decks exist???!!!
They exist because you have a more varied metagame if combo decks exist and that's not a bad thing (I'm not saying that it should be this combo deck because oath is broken but it would be nice to have at least one viable non-general based combo deck).
Honestly ethersworn canonist & thalia are probably good creatures to include anyway as they should hurt you much less than most other decks. Aside from that true believer could work as well. I don't think it is worth devoting slots to as you will probably lose regardless - with my Olivia deck I have given up Iname because I will never win it consistently without adding a ton of graveyard hate.
You shouldn't be concerned about Storm Combo decks. There are zero competitive storm decks right now, though an Oath-Fueled storm is my next project. Lyserg's deck is a start, but has a really bad mana base and dies to graveyard hate. I'm working on another version atm.
You should be more concerned with Aggro and Control more than combo.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
ALRIGHT!! Here it is. My ridiculously epic tournament experience that's so much more intriguing and filled with vampire BDSM than Gaka's (I know what the adult reading public wants!). I've tried to contain this hotness in spoilers, but it wants to be free. Bring plenty of towels before you dive in!
Round 1 (vs. Kwiznek's Jenara Oath Enchantress)
Default win! Kwiznek was out of town and had to forfeit the match.
**SUPER SPECIAL BONUS ALERT**
Kwiznek and I played a "what-if?" set on April 7th, though with post-Avacyn Restored decklists. This was my first experience playing against the archetype, but I did sit in on his round 2 match and knew what to expect: lots and lots of neatuering enchantments! If I'm a fan of of the power of Lignify in EDH, then Kwiznek is an absolute zealot of this all-enchantment cult, haha.
Game 1:
A very close game where we both go all in early on our generals, he casts Oath of Druids, but I kill it before it gets active. Ultimately, he neuters my general and I neuter his (double Lignify!), but his manlands get there.
Game 2:
I pull out of the jaws of defeath this game with a shrouded Sisay, just one swing away from dying to general damage, sticking Linvala with Hollow back-up to chump Jenara. Norn and friends deal lethal.
Game 3:
Humility and Jace 2.0. Need I say more? My early Survival means nothing this game. I manage to drop tons of annoyingness, nevertheless, and my 1/1s and manlands almost get there, bringing Kwiznik to single digits. Jace is about to go ultimate, and I concede.
If we'd play this out for real, I may not have won and the whole tournament would have gone differently! Then again, I didn't get Aura Shards in any of those games, so who knows. ;P (I'm being facetious here; Kwiznik built a great deck and has his fair share of enchantment hate, including at least 3 that can be tutored for).
Record: 1-0
Round 2 (vs. Moondust's Adun Kiki-Ooze Combo)
I've seen this deck a lot on Cockatrice, and I know that it's pretty much "all in graveyard combo." I also know that it stomps unsuspecting decks, which is why I've placed it high tier on my personal tier list. The deck is resilient and very consistent with its green and black tutoring package, so I had due respect for the deck already before the games began.
Game 1:
He wins the toss and plays a land and passes. I keep a pretty solid hand that would allow for a turn 3 shrouded Sisay--but with some risks. I take my first chance on turn one, playing Utopia Sprawl on Savannah (I had no basics or fetches in hand), hoping he's not holding Wasteland. Turn 2, he plays Wasteland and 2-for-1's me. -_-
Well, one of the reasons I like my hand is because it has Relic of Progenetus in the opener. I figure I better cast this now or it may be discarded later. It'll also be a good distraction for the Survival in my hand. I play a land and Relic on turn 2 and pass. I think, on his turn 3, he plays another land and passes.
On my turn 3, I GSZ for Sylvan Safekeeper, who eats removal at end of turn. I sac a land to keep him around. Yes, this puts me at just 1 land, but I've got a feeling there's more removal where that came from and I need Sisay to stick.
Indeed! Turn 4, he plays more removal on Safekeeper, and I have to let him go. I've got Tithe in hand, but I can't be stuck on 1 land for long. End of his turn, I cast Tithe, untap, and play Survival--but I have no creatures in hand to use. As hoped, he plays removal at the end of my turn, sending Survival to the Graveyard.
On his next turn, he plays Eternal Witness and gets back some more removal (Pulse I think was the only one left, as I've been removing a card in his GY every turn with Relic), and I play Enlightened Tutor at the end of his turn to put Sylvan Library on top of my library, knowing that I have to keep baiting his removal. I also cast Sylavn Tutor for Yavimaya Hollow, gearing up to cast Sisay.
As planned, he kills my Sylvan Library during his turn, swings and passes. I decide to give him another target and play Elspeth, which he also manages to spot remove during his turn. Next turn I've got enough mana to cast Sisay with Hollow backup, just in case he has any more spot removal spells.
But then he plays some mana dorks and Olivia. Oh ****. Olivia eats this deck alive.
Sisay resolves with Hollow backup, but he'll have none of that. Olivia bites Sisay and then steals her. I start taking some serious damage. It's looking grim for team Selesnya.
During my turn, I cast Journey to Nowhere on Olivia, and he's finally out of removal options! He casts his general and passes, and at last I get to start tuturing with Sisay. Just to be as cautious as I can be, I tutor up Thrun with what turns out to be my only tutor opportunity (as Sisay gets killed after this), and it turns out to be a good target. Thrun and Treetop Village take this game, eventually dealing lethal. Big sigh of relief.
Game 2:
My hand this time around is okay, not great, and on his turn 1 he Thoughtseizes my Mana Tithe. I play a land and pass. He plays two mana dorks. Err. I forget what I do next (panic a little?), but it was either this turn or the next that I cast Steelshaper's Gift and get Greeves in hand. On his turn 3, he plays Survival of the Fittest with mana open. Oh **** oh ****. I've drawn Beast Within since his discard spell, so I kill it as fast as I can. He pitches Anger to the graveyard, one part of his combo.
His mana dorks help him play his general fast with mana backup to feed his ability (and he's hasted, too), but he doesn't have any targets. The other thing he lacks is spot removal, so I manage to play Sisay and attach the greaves on turn 4. He transmutes Shred Memory for Demonic Tutor which he'll use to find Damnation, but this takes too many turns. By this point, I've cast Teeg and Elesh Norn with Yavimaya Hollow backup and he's just got a 1/1 beast token in play.
I get a few turns to swing with the team before he draws into (or maybe was holding it?) Dismember, and he kills Teeg, but he knows from earlier that I've had Loyal Retainers in hand all game so he's been buying time to be able to cast both Dismember and Damnation in the same turn.
However, that time does not come, as I've got lethal on the board and he doesn't have enough mana without the dorks to swing the game back in his favor. He does the math and concedes.
Record: 2-0
Round 3 (vs. omgmakeme's Zur Control)
This is another deck I've got a ton of familiarity with from watching games on Cockatrice. Terrifyingly, it's a deck that I've almost never seen lose. Omgmakeme has a very smart approach to Zur and is one the most patient, flawless players on Cockatrice. I know, it sounds like I'm trying to court him or something, but I'm just being honest; this was not a matchup I was feeling confident about. Nevertheless, I do think both generals are equally capable, and I just had to trust that my hands would be hotter than his.
Game 1: Yep, my trust is immediatley broken. Bad deck! No treat for you. I get zero ramp, zero protection, AND zero removal in my opener. So not only do I have nothing to offer in the way of targets, but I can't even hope to stop Zur. I think I manage a turn 3 Sisay after an early elf draw, which gets eaten by Disfigure that was Brainstorm'd for. I tap out for something of little consequence on turn 4, and on his turn 4 he plays Zur, not buying that I'm baiting him with removal (or perhaps has FoW in hand or something). He starts swinging, and this game ends very quickly with Zur answering what little things I have on the field while keeping plenty of mana open for the stream of counters that spell my demise.
Game 2: I decide to gamble on a two land hand that has Land Tax. When I play it turn 1, I suspect he has Misstep in hand given his hesitation to let it resolve, and I'm thankful that it makes it into play. On his turn 1, he Wastelands my Savannah, and on turn 2 I opt to not play a land so that Tax can get active, knowing he won't have a one mana answer for it in his colors. To make a long story short, this gamble pays off, and I get the maximum value out of Land Tax, tutoring every basic out of my library, most of which get pitched to the yard because I've still got a full grip (and because his second land drop is Rishdan Port, which keeps me slowed down for several turns).
I'm blanking on the exact details of this game, but one of the reasons I didn't want to mess with my hand is because it had two removal spells for Zur in it. These are so necessary and one of them gets used right when it needs to be, and then I eventually draw into Lignify, which is the turning point of this game. My opponent has used up all his answers in hand to counter and kill Sisay and other threats, so after he recasts his general for I believe the second time (perhaps one of my removals was mental misstep'd? I forget), I Lignify it and actually get to play and untap with Sisay. Norn and Saffi come along and I play Elspeth from hand (with a resolved Steely Resolve in play to back-up Sisay), and he concedes.
Game 3: Omgmakeme opts to play first, something not characteristic of him as he usually opts for the reactive plan and the card advantage--but for this matchup, it's really a race to get our generals into play and protected. We're both treated terribly on our draws and mulligans, and I have to pitch so much greatness (ramp and protection both, while holding one removal spell for Zur) to go to 4 cards just to see a single land while he had to go down to 5 cards. He throws down a plains and passes, and I play Sylvan Safekeeper, who sadly eats a Force Spike. On his turn 2, he plays a land and passes, and I play Expedition Map. This is the most pivotal point in the game, and cause for quite a bit of discussion.
Ultimately, I decide to tutor up Rishdan Port, not confident that I'll draw enough lands to recoup the tempo loss and not trusting that he won't draw any more lands to outrace me in playing his general. It's certainly arguable that I should have trusted my draws better and gotten Wasteland instead (but hey, the Cockatrice shuffler is terrible?). The gamble almost pays off when I'm at 5 mana and he's stuck on 4, and I just need to topdeck a single land to pull off Sisay with the mana left open to tap down his 4th land (I should definitely note, he's resolved a Lighting Greaves, so allowing Zur to enter the battlefield is simply not an option since we're both in topdeck mode and need our generals to stick). Sadly, I topdeck a creature, and he manages his 5th land, which pretty much spells the end for me.
Still, I play it out, and manage to get him down to 9 life with Scavenging Ooze, forcing him to answer absolutely everything I play or potentially face lethal in a turn or two. I recast Sisay several times (and actually run him out cards to pitch to Forbid, even with Phyrexian Arena in play), but he's building up an inevitable advantage which ultimately brings him stability with Steel of the Godhead and Planeswalkers on board. This game is incredibly close and could have gone very differently (especially given how it started poorly for both of us mana-wise, and I could have gambled the other way on the land tutor and counted on drawing two more lands myself the next two turns, as I ended up doing just a turn late), but he solidly takes the win in the end.
Record: 2-1
Round 4 (vs. Capitacom's Olivia Control)
Full disclosure: I completely expected to lose this one 2-0. It was difficult scheduling a time because we were an ocean apart and both had much gong on, so I was tempted to just forfeit the round and spare myself the inevitable deaths. Why so glum, you ask? Well, I consider this exact build to be our worst overall matchup. Before our scheduled match, I took a peek at Capitacom's last shared decklist: 7 sweepers with all the best targeted removal and hand disruption in the colors. Also, Aether Flash. Outlook: AHHHHHH!
Game 1:
I keep a risky hand that's going to require some luck with 2 dorks, 2 lands, and GSZ. My opponent plays draw go, then (he's on the play) drops a turn 3 Aether Flash. Thankfully, I've got the tutor, and use GSZ to bomb Flash with Qasali Pridemage on the stack, using all my mana. He plyays more ramp, and I play a naked Sisay next turn, and then he Pyroclasm's my board.
He plays Olivia, bu I'm waiting with Lignify in hand. And thus begins the recast Sisay/watch Sisay die to spot removal game. She finally sticks for 8, and I play defensisvely and grab Yavimaya Hollow first. Good call. He plays Bloodgift Demon and Graveborn Muse, digging deep for removal and coming up short. I get Norn and Linvala swinging, and tutoring up Jitte forces the concession. But let's be honest: this game's winner is Lignify.
Game 2:
Nevermore is in my opener. Nothing else matters. Aside from Lignify, this is the only hope I have of beating Olivia. I just have to pray for no turn one Thought Seize. Haha, my prayers go unanswered; he plays a turn 1 Thoughtseize, and I figure that's going to be it for me.
But the choice isn't so simple. I kept a one-lander with Tithe, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Mother of Runes, Greaves, and Green Sun Zenith. After some though, he decides that GSZ has got to go. Huge relief! I draw a land, play my dork, and pass. Draw, go. I resolve a turn 2 Nevermore, naming his general, feeling confident.
After fighting through tons of removal (Infest, spot removals), Sisay sticks for 8 mana again with Greaves. But this game is far less fortunate for Kwiznel's draws as he manages no threats, and Hollow followed by all my remaining Legends gets there, even though both Linvala and Norn have been killed and exiled via his Relic at this point. Jitte and Thrun take it, and I win my nightmare matchup thanks to Lignify and Nevermore--and Mana Tithing his turn 3 Dystopia (which explains why he made me discard GSZ).
Record: 3-1
Round 4 (vs Gaka's Geist Tempo)
Pre-game, Gaka and I are both realistic about this matchup and wager it's about 50/50. We've played a few sets in the past to substantiate this, and it's an equally awkward match for us both; I have to play around conditional counters and he usually has to wait several turns to make sure the coast is clear, and each turn is wrought with agonizing decesions.
Game 1:
Gaka resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, with me having no removal. But it's okay, as I have a hand that I can do something with, and get a shrouded Sisay active. He's staring me down with tons of damage coming, but I really screw him over with a Wasteland, then manage to resolve a few Sisay threats and kill his Jitte, taking this game handily.
Game 2:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal, and proceeds to load up his Mystic with almost every equipment he runs. I manage no removal, and my mediocre hand gets me nowhere. Despite not being able to even cast his general, I have nothing to stop Mystic with swords and Jitte from taking this game handily.
Game 3:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal. Sensing a pattern here? My hand, like in game 2, is pretty pathetic despite the mulligan, and I make a fatally safe play by dropping my only basic land on turn 1, a Forest, not wanting to play City of Brass (my only source of white) on turn 1 to watch it get eaten by a Wasteland (something that happens EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY, so this isn't an unfounded concern). This proves to be stupidly over-safe, however, as I don't have a white source to stop his Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, despite having Mana Tithe in hand. I'm positive that he would have been ultimately non-relevant while stuck on 2 lands for several turns the rest of this game, but alas: Mystic again goes voltron with three equipments. Derp.
This game goes back and forth and it looks like I've got control with my own Mystic entering the field, nabbing me Greaves. I also get Teeg onto the board, but opt to keep my greaves on Mystic as she is also carrying a Sword of Fire and Ice, and I need her to keep his Mystic in check. However, the naked Teeg gets bounced at the end of my turn, and he plays Jace the Mind Scultpor. Yes, his only real threats all three games were Mytstic and Jace, which is totally a first in the history of Magic. Still, I've got a very powerful secret in hand, and I finally get the opportunity to play it: Primeval Titan. Who immediately eats Path to Exile. Of course.
I hope and pray for a tutor or Norn off the top, who has the potential to swing the game here, but I have to tap out for Oblivion Ring to deal with Jitte and play Sisay and get the greaves on her and--lose. He's got lethal on the board, just enough to prevent me from having another turn. God. Dammit.
I probably should have been bolder on the turn 1 land drop (I kept a three lander after a mull, with the third being Gaea's cradle with 2 creatures in hand, both of which got countered), but taking big risks like that can lead to blowouts. I'm not sure I would have played it differently unless I had another white source in hand. Still, extremely frustrating, as I essentially lost to one card. And to pre-empt criticism of some of my recent omisions: no, Fiend Hunter and Oust were obviously not the answer here.
Record 3-2
At this point, the three losers of round 5 battle it out for the final spot in the top 8. This includes me, Jarreth, and Pano. I face off against Pano in the first of these rounds, who is piloting a Merieke extinction build. I can't. Catch. A break.
Round 5.1
Game 1:
I really wish I'd gotten a screen cap of this game, particularly Pano's graveyard several turns in. He has cast 2 sweepers, three spot removals, and a counterspell, preventing me from getting absolutely anywhere in the early turns, despite having a solid start with both ramp and Sisay protection (which amounts to nothing here). I keep answering his general and dropping creatures that he has to answer in the mid-late game, but this is no trouble for him at all as he draws his way into Humility on turn 7, after Snuffing Out my resolved Norn on turn 6 with his only card in hand. Though we're both topdecking cards, his man lands followed up with Sword of Feast and Famine are enough to get there.
Game 2:
My deck does what it's designed to do this game--overextend and not get blown out by a sweeper! Erm, wait...
Again, I manage both early protection and ramp, and after he taps out for Merieke, I tap out for Sisay. On turn 5, I hard-cast both Norn and Dauntless Escort with Sylvan Safkeeper in play. He's dead in a few swings and can't deal with the board state (and admits to having just lands in hand), so concedes.
Game 3:
I mulligan a bit, and have to settle for a hand that's just 4 lands, ramp, and a creature tutor at 6 cards, since he's keeping a full grip. If I'm going to be outracing counters and removal again like game one, I've gotta keep what I can. He gets the turn 1 Thought Seize and takes the ramp.
I figure that the only card that makes sense to tutor up this game is Thrun, so I go for it. On his third turn, he plays Clique and sends Thrun right back into the deck. Fine. He's tapped out, so I drop Ancient Tomb, Benevolent Bodyguard, and go all in for Sisay.
And then he plays a turn 4 Humility. =|
My impulse is to scoop, but I decide to play it out. I manage to drop more creatures than he does and have land control for his man land, but he once again draws into Sword of Feast and Famine, plays Gideon, kills all my dudes, and that's game.
---
As Jarreth beats Pano, I'm called upon to fight yet another match. Jarreth is piloting Gaka's Damia Oath deck, one that I've played against before. It's a freaking nightmare, like all of the other decks I've been talking about. It's designed to control every single thing you do (targeted removal, discard, counter magic, and sweeps too) and derp its way into a victory via Oath. It really wouldn't be a deck without the brokenness that is Oath, so I just have to hope my opponent doesn't see it before I reach my win con.
Game 1:
I keep a great hand with both ramp and protection, and draw Norn on my opener. Nothing of mine gets countered or killed, oddly enough, and Sisay untaps for Gaea's Cradle, giving me the turn 4 Norn. However, on his turn 4 (he's on the play), he's already resolved a turn 3 Phyrexian Arena and a turn 4 Oath of Druids. Derp.
Turns out I'm in good shape, though. He Oaths into Rune-Scarred Demon, and I don't know what he tutors. I dig for Enchantment removal with my Sylvan Library and destroy Oath at the end of my turn, having resolved more beaters to end the game quicker with Norn (Birds of Paradise is a beater lolol). He taps out for Damia, and at the end of my turn I use E. Tutor for Lignify, swing out, and he concedes.
Game 2:
I can't even be mad about the outcome of this game. My opponent ultimate'd Karn and restarted the game with Blightsteel Colossus, and had FoW in hand to stop the potential of me having turn one STP (I was on the play). Pretty funny, all in all. Ha. Ha.
But I CAN be mad that I had Defense of the Heart out and Forbidden Orchard active, and he managed to wipe the board THREE times to reset his dudes (Damnation, Engineered Explosives, and Deed). And then, when it finally met its condition, he had, of all cards, Voidslime to counter the trigger. I don't even.
Long story short, I recast Sisay for 10. She simply couldn't stick, but that's not surprising; Damia Oath is a deck that can be in full control against aggro-control decks like mine with absurd ease. Sigh.
Game 3:
...never happens. Drama drama drama, we both drop out of the tournament.
TL;DR
Everyone was WELL-PREPARED for Edric and thus any aggro-control build, which have traditionally dominated French top 8s. Because of that, I was facing off against heavy control extinction builds and decks built around Humility and Oath, which eat Edric and decks like mine alive.
But despite the competition, I still did really damned well and managed a top 10 finish (could have possibly been higher without the drama drama drama). I made some huge changes to the deck to prepare for the extinction builds, and the deck performed admirably considering it still needs squishy easily-killed creatures to get anywhere.
Closing thought: I love Lignify more than any other 2 mana green spell in this format. Yes, even that one. Every green mage should run it.
Pre-game, Gaka and I are both realistic about this matchup and wager it's about 50/50. We've played a few sets in the past to substantiate this, and it's an equally awkward match for us both; I have to play around conditional counters and he usually has to wait several turns to make sure the coast is clear, and each turn is wrought with agonizing decesions.
Indeed. However as shown by the 2-1 victory this is actually a 66/33 matchup. Duh.
Game 1:
Gaka resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, with me having no removal. But it's okay, as I have a hand that I can do something with, and get a shrouded Sisay active. He's staring me down with tons of damage coming, but I really screw him over with a Wasteland, then manage to resolve a few Sisay threats and kill his Jitte, taking this game handily.
I admit going for Jitte was a mistake. I was hoping to control your board after getting a few swings in - but this doesn't work very well when I don't have much to swing with. The wasteland was probably the play of the game though. Not a whole lot I could do afterwards.
Game 2:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal, and proceeds to load up his Mystic with almost every equipment he runs. I manage no removal, and my mediocre hand gets me nowhere. Despite not being able to even cast his general, I have nothing to stop Mystic with swords and Jitte from taking this game handily.
This time I elected to control the hand and the stack. To this effect, I searched for FaF. All the better to whelp you with, my dear! Drawing extra swords didn't hurt.
Game 3:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal. Sensing a pattern here? My hand, like in game 2, is pretty pathetic despite the mulligan, and I make a fatally safe play by dropping my only basic land on turn 1, a Forest, not wanting to play City of Brass (my only source of white) on turn 1 to watch it get eaten by a Wasteland (something that happens EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY, so this isn't an unfounded concern).
I was actually prepared not to cast the stoneforge on turn 2 if you did present white. I can't remember if I drew a wasteland or not here, but I did know that trying to force stoneforge through a mana tithe would have been a really stupid idea.
This proves to be stupidly over-safe, however, as I don't have a white source to stop his Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, despite having Mana Tithe in hand. I'm positive that he would have been ultimately non-relevant while stuck on 2 lands for several turns the rest of this game, but alas: Mystic again goes voltron with three equipments. Derp.
We form Voltron.
This game goes back and forth and it looks like I've got control with my own Mystic entering the field, nabbing me Greaves. I also get Teeg onto the board, but opt to keep my greaves on Mystic as she is also carrying a Sword of Fire and Ice, and I need her to keep his Mystic in check. However, the naked Teeg gets bounced at the end of my turn, and he plays Jace the Mind Scultpor. Yes, his only real threats all three games were Mytstic and Jace, which is totally a first in the history of Magic.
Caw! Caw!
I did not like being forced to bounce teeg, but a hand with Jace, cryptic and wrath - it seemed like a good idea. I was all-in on the jace plan by the end, hoping to get lethal jitte with the looter while preventing you from doing anything meaningful with the board via -1/-1s.
Still, I've got a very powerful secret in hand, and I finally get the opportunity to play it: Primeval Titan. Who immediately eats Path to Exile. Of course.
I was holding the path for sisay, but I suppose this works too.
I hope and pray for a tutor or Norn off the top, who has the potential to swing the game here, but I have to tap out for Oblivion Ring to deal with Jitte and play Sisay and get the greaves on her and--lose. He's got lethal on the board, just enough to prevent me from having another turn. God. Dammit.
Math. Nuff said.
Record 0-x
Everyone was WELL-PREPARED for Edric and thus any aggro-control build, which have traditionally dominated French top 8s. Because of that, I was facing off against heavy control extinction builds and decks built around Humility and Oath, which eat Edric and decks like mine alive.
Defenitely - I almost went with Damia or my own Adun grave-combo (developed separately from m00ndust's but except for 5 cards virtually identical) but I felt that I had a better chance of doing well with Geist by virtue of the increase of Humility-based decks I had seen and tested. My swords + manlands make Humility irrelevant to me.
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Tantarus: It didn't make the gaka greifer level, so it should be fine
I've been in the steely grips of Diablo 3 over the last several months, but I've moved on (hooray, kicking the habit!). I logged into Cockatrice last night and played a set against Bobah's Zoo Uril list. Great player! I won't blame rustiness on my loss; I'll blame card choices! ;P
I've swapped out Burgeoning and Sterling Grove to re-include Weathered Wayfarer and Skullclamp. Having had time to set the down deck for a few months and come at it again with fresh eyes and not theory-crafting-rabbit-hole eyes, I think Wayfarer and Clamp suit the toolbox/land drop consistency nature of the deck better than the other two cards, both in cost and topdeck usefulness. And I think they've certainly proven themselves in the meta, in the experience of others.
Anyway: I'm back, baby! And I've just applied for one of those fancy official Primer tags.
I figured that I should comment on Generie Peco's Captain Sisay deck, who has now placed in the top 8 of two large Phillipines-based tournaments in a row. (Thread can be found here)
Looks pretty solid! Very similar to my Legacy Maverick-ish list with a few differences in cards that I've tried at one point or another. Here's his list from August's tournament, for your consideration:
Pretty straightforward. Curves similarly to mine and plays about the same mix of answers/threats/ramp/utility and only a choice few Legends. I approve!
...not that someone with better tournament placements than me needs my approval, but still. ;P
Anyone else out there still playing Sisay? Any new tech you've stumbled upon?
No new tech, but I just wanted to chime in and say that I'm very excited you're finally back in this thread. I built Sisay a long time ago and your thread has really helped me improve my list and my game. I'll post my list for funsies, nothing really out of the ordinary.
It's a blast to play and quite powerful. Keep up the great work! I'll hopefully be able to add to the discussion here and there. I hope Ravnica brings us lots of new toys to play with.
EDIT: I don't usually play French Rules, so I have stuff like Sol Ring and Strip Mine in there.
Pretty straightforward. Curves similarly to mine and plays about the same mix of answers/threats/ramp/utility and only a choice few Legends. I approve!
...not that someone with better tournament placements than me needs my approval, but still. ;P
Anyone else out there still playing Sisay? Any new tech you've stumbled upon?
Thanks Riley, a lot of my list's inspiration came from this thread I would like to give credit to you guys for the starting list. I tweaked it a bit based on my playstyle and available cards since im playing it IRL. Spent quite a lot esp with the retainers, but it has been absolutely awsome.
I personally don't like exploration and burgeoing, just didn't seem to do a lot without the land finding cards like cultivate and stuff. But I must admit it was a bonkers when I had land tax out. Although there weren't really a lot of cards with high manacost to really take advantage of the land drops.
I to am trying out the clamp, seems unfair in a deck like this that runs a complete suite of manadorks.
One thing I haven't seen in most list is crib swap, this card have been significant, and even tutorable with Treefolk Harbringer.
I like the flexibilty of sterling grove, I'm not sure if it's the right thing to cut if you would want wayfarer or clamp in. But the good thing about sisay is the flexibility of the deck, you can basically swap cards in and out and it would still flow beautifully.
Cards I'm not sure of is Thrun and Sun Titan, the best thing it did for me so far is to get pitched to survival/fauna they seem really strong on paper, but with all the tutor that this deck has, i usually go for the more significant cards, ie Elesh and Sigarda.
Norn as finisher + Stoneforge to fetch Jitte, replacing the rest of the deck with ramp and sweepers? Lol, could work! ;P
But in all seriousness, you and I both know that my version of Sisay would have been roflstomped in this tournament. Even shifting from elves to safer ramp options, all of the other creatures I play (the number of which isn't high enough to outpace all the kill spells, unlike the high-creature playing Rhys deck in the tourney) have the lifespan of a fruit fly in the face of so much creature hate. Layers of protection with Mother of Runes and Steely Resolve still leave me open to increasingly popular 'clasms and sweepers, as I've experienced countless times on Cockatrice.
Changing Sisay into a fully meta-conscious machine with maximum control and a few bombs rather than a pseudo-combo, pseudo-good stuff, pseudo-pet deck might actually make for a more effective and competitive build, considering that I don't think decks like Maelstrom and Ruhan are ever going away.
Of course, the danger with this route is that the less relevant to the board your opening spells (that is, playing Cultivate instead of Knight of the Reliquary), the more answers your control opponent can save for the real threats on turns 3-4, which is what makes Azusa, e.g., such garbage against upper tier decks. I've never taken the deck in such an extremely ramp-centric route before, so it might be better than I think given the control elements of white, but I'm skeptical.
Still, you all know I'm crazy enough to try it. No harm in trying! ;P
I really think you should try taking Sisay in a new direction, if only for the sake of seeing how it runs (and potentially making her more competitive). When I look at your list, I almost ask myself: "Why not just play Rhys aggro?", but I know you love Sisay.
I've always had great love for Sisay, given that she was the first EDH deck I ever built. I'm currently playing a 1v1 Nath deck (another old favourite) that I recently revived and I'm trying hard to make it work, even though the metagame is working against me.
Another option would be to make the deck more like Rhys; less control and more aggro-oriented. I've always found Rhys to make for a relatively weak general that is mostly only good against heavy control because he guarantees a turn-one potential army maker. GW's strength in the current metagame is to spit out efficient hatebears and must-answer threats in order to chip away at your opponent if he fails to answer them while he waits for the bigger threats. Adding in Hero of Bladehold, Fiend Hunter, Blade Splicer and the new Loxodon Smiter would be useful for the aggro iteration. Your legendary creatures are already largely geared toward an aggro-plan against control, so this could work.
Anyway, just wanted to share some thoughts. I might come up with a deck list sometime but I want you to know that you're not alone in playing in trying to make more niche generals work!
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
I'm very excited you're finally back in this thread.
It's good to be back! Welcome aboard the Sisay Train. First stop: sexy town!
I hope Ravnica brings us lots of new toys to play with.
This just brought me THE BIGGEST FROWN. I've been waking up and checking the spoilers first thing every morning, and I'm actually pissed off to see so many goodies for other colors and decks while green/white are the colors of multi-card token engines, narrow "answers," and life gain that is irrelevant in a format with top-tier decks that are fast and combo-rific. So far, at 127 out of 274 cards spoiled, I've seen no new goodies for Sisay. Wah! =(
Given the G/W themese we've seen thus far (seriously, to hell with Detainment, too), I don't have high hopes for the rest of the spoilers.
To be sure, I think some of these cards could fit a brand new casual archetype, and all due kudos to Wizards for nailing what it is that most G/W players expect to see in casual game types like traditional Commander, but bah! So much garbage from my Frenchy perspective.
Thanks Riley, a lot of my list's inspiration came from this thread I would like to give credit to you guys for the starting list. I tweaked it a bit based on my playstyle and available cards since im playing it IRL. Spent quite a lot esp with the retainers, but it has been absolutely awsome.
Oof, yeah, I still don't have a Retainers of my own. It's too good of a card not to own for the deck if you're competing IRL, though. What would you estimate the total cost of your deck to be, out of curiosity? I think I might want to add price estimates to the OP, and I've made a lot of proxy concessions on higher end cards myself...
I personally don't like exploration and burgeoing, just didn't seem to do a lot without the land finding cards like cultivate and stuff. But I must admit it was a bonkers when I had land tax out. Although there weren't really a lot of cards with high manacost to really take advantage of the land drops.
I definitely need more time to consider Exploration. You're right about the lack of bombs; this version of Sisay isn't really taking advantage of the drops in the same way Maelstrom Wanderer would be, for instance. I suppose my main reason for considering those enchantments was to go toe-to-toe at the same rate as Animar and Iname and to replace the more vulnerable elves, but this probably is both the wrong way to do it and the wrong cards to make such a replacement. Not sure yet, but your hunch might be correct.
I to am trying out the clamp, seems unfair in a deck like this that runs a complete suite of manadorks.
Yeah, definitely seems great at >30 creatures, especially with dorks still in. I'd say it's a keeper under these conditions.
One thing I haven't seen in most list is crib swap, this card have been significant, and even tutorable with Treefolk Harbringer.
I used to run the both of these pre-French, but at some point (around the point that I switched rule sets and metas and decks started to become as tweaked or better than mine and I needed quicker answers) I started to feel really skeptical about 3-mana answers, especially ones that would still give Edric another beater, for instance. I really love both of these cards, but they've both struck me as just not quite good enough for ultra-tuned French. Hell, I didn't even like Oust enough for French (given that I usually want to cast it on a general, and Oh God how underwhelming), so I expect an awful lot out of my removal. I think, maybe, I've been asking for too much to try and stop everything my opponent is trying to do, given the weak removal options in White relative to Black and Red, and I should be focusing more on getting to my win con faster.
I dunno, have these cards been working particularly well for you, together or separately? I'd like to hear some of your anecdotes and I might reconsider their power level in the deck. More toolboxy goodness is often the right answer, but not always.
I like the flexibilty of sterling grove, I'm not sure if it's the right thing to cut if you would want wayfarer or clamp in. But the good thing about sisay is the flexibility of the deck, you can basically swap cards in and out and it would still flow beautifully.
You may be right here. Even though it's on the slower side to do so with Grove, fetching Survival or Nevermore for the following turn can definitely steal games. I'm leaning towards re-inclusion.
Cards I'm not sure of is Thrun and Sun Titan, the best thing it did for me so far is to get pitched to survival/fauna they seem really strong on paper, but with all the tutor that this deck has, i usually go for the more significant cards, ie Elesh and Sigarda.
I think I'm definitely over Thrun. Many players twisted my arm to reconsider him after my initial testing, and although his Hexproof and equipment carrying prowess has certainly won me a few games, he's just outclassed by Sigarda now. Not likely to be a tutor target anymore with her in the deck.
Sun Titan, on the other hand, is one of the few cards that can pull me out of a losing situation, and has done so many times. Recurring a single protection guy who's been killed, or Steely Resolve, or Jitte, or Wasteland, or just my previously killed army, has swung many games in my favor in a way that no other card could quite do. But again, online meta is such that pinpoint removal is something you have to expect 90% of the time on each and every turn, so the immediate value the titan affords is, in my opinion, unbeatable in any other w/g card for what he does.
I really think you should try taking Sisay in a new direction, if only for the sake of seeing how it runs (and potentially making her more competitive). When I look at your list, I almost ask myself: "Why not just play Rhys aggro?", but I know you love Sisay.
Well have I got a surprise for you!
Expanding on my earlier musings, I thew together a list that swapped out 22-25 cards, some of which I've never even played before. My approach was to strip out every single creature that I don't routinely fetch, take out other cards I've been iffy about, and then replace them with a strategy that goes even more heartily into the plan of "ramp ramp ramp, steal games with the best Legends and G/W combos there are, lol all the way to the bank."
So I played a set with this newly christened deck against Evergreen's Iname, and beat him for the first time in as long as I can remember. Assuredly, GY hate had something to do with it, but I was generally much less vulnerable with the new card choices, and more confident about playing (and inevitably recasting) Sisay. Still, I knew that this build was rough as hell, so I turned it over to Evergreen and Kwiznek and said, "HALP!"
And so they did.
Deep into the night we went through all of the questionable choices and found ourselves saying, "Wait, actually, put that card you cut RIGHT BACK IN MISTER." We found stronger choices for a few cards. We thought about new ways to use all of the new ramp mana. We thought about some of the new decks that have cropped up (Maelstrom and Griselbrand) since my departure from the deck months ago. Then we saw the new R/B general, were awe-struck, and got off topic. But anyway, here's what we ended up with:
So this is a WEIRD deck list for several reasons. First, it appears to be going several steps backwards, as all of the Rampant Growth effects hearken back to the Khymera/Surging Chaos days of the deck. The re-insertion of Living Plane and Iona is a throwback to an older version of mine that sought to create unloseable sitautions quickly. Despite earlier reliance on Gaddock Teeg in all sorts of different states of the meta, I've included a higher number of 4+ CC non-creature cards, including Entreat the Angels and the whole host of Super Friends. Despite the more creature-oriented push of other G/W decks (including Sisay builds), this deck is host to fewer creatures than ever.
I don't know if this is any good (so far, all I've got is the one set with Iname), but I've really lost a lot of faith in my previous version of Sisay. What I do know for sure that I don't run enough creatures to outpace all of the creature pinpoint and mass removal in the top tier decks (unlike the Rhys deck of recent fame), and I don't run enough ramp and combo to outpace the better combo decks like Animar and Iname nor the ramp decks like Wanderer and Griselbrand. So I've taken a step back from all my pet cards and things that have spoken to various matchups in the past and said "What is it that I do to win, really?"
The answer, of course: is Norn and Jitte.
But when that fails, I've often relied on stealing wins with Survival. I've often relied on stealing wins with Linvala. I've often relied on stealing wins with Iona. So why not focus the deck on winning the most efficiently with the cards that have proven themselves through the years instead of trying to win with everything remotely good in Selesyna and the kitchen finks?
Well, there's plenty of good reasons, including the very existence of blue decks, but their relevance has waned in the reign of Edric and other aggro-control for many months, and then in the rise of Maelstrom making permission decks laughably bad in the meta. So even though shifting gears towards bombs and combo wins has proven unreliable in the past in some of those matchups, this might be the best time to recross those paths and reinstate the best of these "I win" setups.
Sisay still plays a vital role in being a must-answer-immediately general. No one wants to permit Norn to come out to play, or Jitte, or Sigarda, or all of the above. Consitently getting the worst nightmares of players (and not just a steady stream of mild nightmares) seems to be an approach worth pursuing.
I could be very very wrong! I'm cautiously optimistic, as ever before, and lots and lots of testing will be necessary. Realistically speaking, I've long felt that Sisay is the best of the B-Tier decks by virtue of consistency and relative quickness (and, hey, Norn), but she could be so much more with the right focus on hammering in those totally unloseable situations via Survival and Living Plane.
Random musings:
I've upped the land count +1 to account for the fact that Gaea's Cradle is probably going to be more of a toolbox card than a true land, and this is a significant mentality shift. Likewise, Serra's Sanctum has been added, but may prove too minor to matter.
Not sure about Wrath of God yet. I may want Martial Coup instead (or as well). There's a minor token theme going on here with the Planeswalkers.
With just 4 basic lands now, I probably don't want Land Tax anymore. I think Selesnya signet requires serious consideration here, or some other Rampant Growth effect I've overlooked. Thoughts?
With more 5 drops (namely, the PWers), I've finally given myself something to do the following turn after Sisay is countered/killed. Long overdue that I add more 5-drops, I think.
The mentality of this deck borrows heavily from Kwiznek's Humility-themed deck, so there are more token creators and man lands now--and a new Sword. Should be a better approach to fighting most decks, honestly.
I've been back and forth on Ruins and Havenwood, but maybe they want to be in this ramp version more than the other version. Need to re-test.
Another option would be to make the deck more like Rhys; less control and more aggro-oriented. I've always found Rhys to make for a relatively weak general that is mostly only good against heavy control because he guarantees a turn-one potential army maker. GW's strength in the current metagame is to spit out efficient hatebears and must-answer threats in order to chip away at your opponent if he fails to answer them while he waits for the bigger threats. Adding in Hero of Bladehold, Fiend Hunter, Blade Splicer and the new Loxodon Smiter would be useful for the aggro iteration. Your legendary creatures are already largely geared toward an aggro-plan against control, so this could work.
I just wanted to say that this approach is definitely legit, and has the potential to be a better Rhys mid-range deck, I think. It's just not the direction I want to take the deck in (Merdock, where you at??).
All thoughts are welcome on this new build! Feel free to take it online yourself and report back what you've found.
I like the new direction! These are my thoughts so far:
- I'm not entirely convinced that you need Elspeth Tirel. She costs a lot and fills a relatively small niche for the deck. Maybe you could fit Acidic Slime back in if you need more 5-drops. It's versatile and can hinder aggro and voltron strategies quite effectively.
- I'm not sold on Exploration for this deck. Other than being decent on turn 1, this deck doesn't run enough pure card advantage to truly take advantage of it. I might try to fit in Utopia Sprawl in its place.
- Land Tax, as you said, is very iffy in a deck that runs 4 basics. As far as I know, you have all the Rampant Growths covered so getting that Selesnya Signet in there in its place seems like a good idea.
- I'm not sure how I feel about Entreat the Angels as it costs so much and I've never played it, but I'd like to hear how well it plays for you.
These are just a few of my initial thoughts, but I think you've got something here. I'd love to hear how it plays against other decks in the meta but beating Iname is certainly a good sign!
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Now that my mana dork count is ZERO, I don't want to get blown out by a single Blood Moon effect, or be marginally more susceptible to wasteland, or actually whiffing on my +1 basic land cards. I figured a few more basics were in order. I understand that not everyone will agree.
So why drop Land Tax now that I'm running more basics? It's really circumstantial and far less likely to ever trigger with the complete shift in +1 land effects. Dropping it turn 1 on the draw would be the only time it would ever work now.
I missed Sprawl, but it's definitely been dangerous for when I had no choice but to drop it on a dual land. I think this play, statistically speaking, makes my opponent's chances of drawing Wasteland 150% (50% buffer for already having it in hand, of course).
I haven't played Edge of Autumn in ages (and never in EDH), but it seems like it would suit the deck.
...not that I have any damn time to play the deck. =/
Full-time job where I'm expected to stay past 5 most days started a month ago, and I've got classes three nights a week for grad school, and then the fiance during most of my "downtime." Anyone is encouraged to take over the testing of this deck while I bang my head against the wall of being a twentysomething who's never had an iota of responsbility before now and is resentful that he can't spend more time on his hobbies.
i played a couple matches with your new version (have to admitt, i havent played sisay that much in the last time)
I'm glad I can count on you! =)
it definetly felt like this deck needs more spot removal (creature and non creature)
esp. artifact/enchant removal (i think here would be something tutorable for worldy/e.call, bla really good). totally random, but a gisela play really locked me down with a turn 3 Stranglehold and of course i didnt found an awnser in time :-D
This was definitely a concern of mine after dropping both Aura Shards (not enough creatures, I think?) and Krosan Grip, and I'm not surprised to hear that this is an issue. Cards like Stranglehold and Humility and Oath should be killed on sight, but I agree with you that the deck doesn't have enough yet to deal with this issue.
Everyone: Should I drop Elspeth Tirel for Acidic Slime? I'm thinking yes.
i dont know, all the ramp feels alright, but now there are less threats than before.. i have to think about it and see after a couple more games with the deck how it will play out.
It really feeled very controlish to play, but sometimes without the right tools/threats to handle the situation.
The more I think about it, the more I think we want all that ramp to go into Tooth and Nail instead of Entreat the Angels. Does that sound crazy to anyone else? If we're going to ramp, we want to have some semblance of ramping into cards that, in any non-commander format, we'd run multiple copies of. Sisay's all about the tutoring, so I don't see why I shouldn't hammer that theme home all the way. I just forgot about Tooth and Nail until seeing zarkku's list.
Yes, I can just see some of the French players rolling their eyes at me now, but it might actually work in this deck. =P
Is veteran explorer really needed/that good?
i can imagine so much situations where i am not sure he helps ME that much, like in control matchups or against maelstrom wanderer.
Not entirely sure, here. I'm banking on being able to use the mana way more effectively than my opponent, which is something that should be true in probably most matchups. You're right that he could be a disaster in ramp mirrors that are trying to blow up all my lands, though. At worst, I don't have to play him, but at best he's a great 1 mana rattlesnake that brings me closer to playing Norn. Definitely needs more testing though, as he only factored into one of my 3 games (positively, to be sure).
and entreat the angels is reeeaaally random. of course from the top its a powerhouse and with 9+ mana a wincon on its own, but without those conditions.. dunno
Haha, so it was Evergreen who suggested this, as Army of the Damned has been such a crazy good powerhouse and alt-win for him. But the difference between Sisay and Iname is about 3 cards... three cards that all say "tutor ANY other card you want" on them. Without being able to reliably shift into "alt-win" mode, Entreat is probably just not worth running. That's my hunch, anyway. I'm sure it would be great nearly every draw, but it certainly is a random non-fit in this deck.
This is my very first post on the forums, but I've been lurking this thread for some time now. Our local group started playing commander some half a year ago and most players decks are still work-in-progress as is mine. Our meta is mostly URx/UBx control with various generals and splintertwin-I-win combos, LD, Zur and Edric. Also, while we mostly play 1v1 or 3-way free for all, we do not adhere to the french banlist.
I recently played in a commander tournament at our LGS, finishing 1st with a 4-1-0 record. This was my list:
While the deck is most notably inspired by Riley's, I've made some adjustments + I do miss some cards (namely tutors, retainers and savannah).
Some of "my" tech I'd like to point out:
Primeval titan is the nuts if I can't keep my sisay alive to fetch me cradle. He also "combos" with avenger of zendikar making tooth and nail @ 9 mana a 1 card I-win-combo.
Crop rotation speeds up my game as I don't have to use sisay to fetch me cradle. Being an instant makes it dodge/eat a counterspell at my opponents end step.
Chord of calling gets your bears to the battlefield with instant speed. Mana is not an issue due to it being a convoke-spell.
Life from the loam: I just hate LD. Also becomes a draw-engine with cycle lands and canopy
Mistveil plains can be tutored with fetchlands, farseek, wayfarer and expedition map. It makes my legendarys recycle back with sisay on the field and also removes insane reanimation targets from the grave, so your opponents can't have them. (seriously hate losing to my own suntitan/elesh/whatever) With mindslaver, sisay, 12 mana and 1 other white permanent I can go infinite mindslave to end a game.
Avacyn is just about impossible to get rid of unless you play white. Steely resolve + avacyn (+ sigarda) makes me giggle. WWW5 is not an issue with this deck.
Aaaand that's about it... So what do you guys think about my deck? I find it fun to play and I seem to win most of the time in multiplayer and 1v1. Some essential cards are missing, but one has to make due, as I am living on a student budget.
Congrats on first place! You can't really argue with success. =P
Mistveil is frustrating in French (as a CITP land that can't attack and only produces one color), and GY theft isn't really a thing to worry about. I used to run it waaay back when with Mindslaver combo, but it required far too many things to be going my way and was cut as being, more often than not, a worse Plains.
I'd definitely still be playing Loam if I were playing the default BL, as many player take full advantage of Strip Mine being legal.
Prime Time and Avenger are great cards and are responsible for nearly 100% of my wins with Azusa. They're not my favorites in Sisay only because we've got other bombs competing for the spot in the "curve" (as if I think about such things when deckbuilding!), so I've never been able to justify them well enough. Depends on what you can get away with in the meta, speed-wise, too. It pleases me to know that they're working out well for you.
I'm a big Crop Rotation fan, but removed it around the time that Edric was all the rage and it was totally devastating for me to have the spell countered. But with all my + land effects and Edric being less prevalent (and perhaps more selective with counterspells), it may actually be better than Sylvan Scrying. I'll consider putting it back in. Thanks for the reminder.
Abundance is another of those Azusa cards I like that's just crazy enough to work in Sisay. If Living Plane combo proves to be too unreliable/slow for me, the new direction of the deck would actually benefit from making sure it got to its bombs (or lands) when needed. Consider that added to my "maybe" list.
I've never actually played Congration at Dawn. Do you usually find yourself fetching the same couple of creatures, or does it just totally depend? I feel like I play too many fetches and other shuffle effects to get the full benefits for tutoring 3 creatures.
With Ancient Tomb gone and my new "I have more lands than you" game plan, and considering I still have a fair amount of land tutoring, and considering three-color decks like Maelstrom and Ruhan are still massively challenging, I'm putting Dust Bowl back into the deck. It's been a while!
I was also reconsidering some other lands I've played before, like Crystal Vein, Deserted Temple, Mouth of Ronom, and Hall of the Bandit Lord. I should probably give Hall some serious reconsideration, as it may serve as a better sort of Tomb for this deck, and might be a better fit for my more all-in plan. Not sure yet.
Half the time I play with Hall of the Bandit Lord I hate it with a passion. It does have the potential to be good but coming in tapped and paying 3 life every time was always a pain for me. It's like the clunkiest land in the game.
On the other hand, I sort of like Deserted Temple even though it doesn't accelerate you. The best you seem to be able to do with it is untap Cradle/Sanctum.
I'm going to have to say that you should test Hall again. Who knows, it could be blowout.
I noticed you don't play Kor Haven any more and I'm assuming it's because you don't play much against voltron or that you don't have trouble with them? I know that this deck has some trouble against Wanderer and Griselbrand and it also stops Doran, Rafiq, and Ruhan. It can also be tutored. Kinda confused here.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Oops, did I say Deserted Temple? I meant whatever-card-returns-a-land-from-our-graveyard-to-our-hand. Is that Blasted Ruins? Or Desecrated Field? Or something?
Kor came out, came back in, and came out again shortly after the Emrakul unbanning. Many decks on Cockatrice started to become really keen on ramping into/cheating out amazing creatures whose true power lie in either some static ability or their attack ability (especially Prime Time). On top of that, it couldn't target either Geist or Animar, two of the best generals on 'trice, and the mana cost on the land was always an awkward deliberation, as this deck doesn't really want to play during your opponent's turns and you almost always wanted to use the mana for something else. For Wanderer and Griselbrand, I'm more concerned with them winning the game immediately due to their abilities than I am about them attacking (which, to be sure, also sucks for me), and I feel like I already have a pretty even-to-favorable matchup against aggro/mid-range decks like Doran and Rafiq. Ruhan will probably just blow up my lands, like a jerk.
Often, playing the "delay my inevitable death" game results in exactly that. I've not had good results playing that sort of strategy, which is why I ultimately went away from the Peacekeeper/total control route, as much as I really really wanted that to work.
HOWEVER, an even larger reason than all of that for not playing it is because I was simply really short on spots for colorless lands, given the om-nom color hungry nature of this deck. With Ancient Tomb banned, this means that any (previously played) colorless land is worth (re)reconsideration. That includes Kor Haven, which certainly has its uses in a Toolbox, though (I'd argue) not enough uses against the best decks and is more often than not a colorless land with an ability that isn't good enough.
For pretty much all of those problematic decks, I think I'm better off keeping my opponent from getting to the right casting mana for these generals, as my life becomes very difficult unless I've already resolved some very specific hate cards or gotten into my combo first, which is why I lean towards Dust Bowl.
On the other hand...
Maybe I should ask myself, primarily, what was Tomb's purpose and does the deck need a similar sort of land? Very often it was used to get action out of Jitte sooner than I should have, but otherwise it was almost always used as a Sisay accelerant or a Norn accelerant. That's not something that can be replaced easily--if indeed I'm looking for a replacement--and for that I should probably be looking at either Crystal Vein or, I suppose, the more narrow and half-the-times frustrating and self-destructive Hall of the Bandit Lords. Hmm.
Petrified Field. I complete forgot what it was called too and now that you mention it, I say fit it in. Wastelands will probably always blow up one of either Cradle and Sanctum and having the Field will help you recover from any major tempo loss.
I don't often like the sac give me two mana lands as it will push you further back if Sisay happens to get killed again. Then again, it can give you that final push to put her out there for the win.
Emmara is like the worst parts of Legends and Homelands got pregnant, aborted the fetus, tossed it in the trashcan, set it on fire and wrapped the corpse in a Dragon's Maze pack wrapper.
Whatever happened to Thalia, Guardian of Thraben? Did you ever get to play her against Talrand and Maelstrom Wanderer? She's awesome against both of them.
Is Teeg worth running still? You current list has it so that Teeg stops eight of your cards, as opposed to just two in your older version.
Also, I gotta say that I don't like the way the list is headed (no offense). GW plays better with creatures, and the recent Rhys deck is testament to that. But if you have been beating Iname recently, then I can't argue with results...
I think you're going to see a reduction in the number of sweepers and removal. Just look at how the metagame changed because of edric - other creature based decks get hosed by all this removal. So they switched to spellbased decks with only a few creatures in the deck, all bombs. So the Oath metagame began. Screw edric.
Quoted for truth from the new banlist thread.
The new direction of the deck was in response to aggro-ish creature-based decks with wimpy (but powerful) generals getting very hated out on Cockatrice. Cataclysms and sweepers were encountered almost never (1 in 20 random decks?) before Edric warped the scene (realistically, closer to 1 in 5 random decks had become "Edric-ready" in my experience, and that ratio increased when you just factored in the "best" players), and you could generally brute-force Sisay through a few kill spells, but "extinction builds" became so fine-tuned to obliterate Edric (while other decks started slotting out creatures for more mass removal) that running a bunch of wimpy g/w utility creatures and hate bears meant terrible matchups against what was becoming the ONLY archetype worth playing in an Edric world--the kind that incidentally ate Sisay and her ilk alive. It was bad, bad times for Sisay.
With Edric being banned, I have this inclination to want to roll the deck back two phases to the elf-ball/maverick version. That version was simple. My ever-hopeful gut says that post Edric, decks will re-tune to have less creature/weenie kill, and the Old Sisay can re-emerge among the top tier decks.
Well, my gut is stupid.
The truth is, those decks and the majority of those changes are here to stay. Which is to say that many of the already great decks only had to make maybe 2-5 card allowances to consider defeating Edric. Some newer, ramp-centric decks came about because they were more finely tuned over time, or the general just recently became available. Those new and awesome decks and those already top-tier decks will continue as they are with maybe only a few changes post-Edric. Which is to say: those sorts of decks that are especially bad for us will still have enough sweepers and spot removal to completely set us back and leave us empty-handed and, ergo, result in way more losses.
Maybe there will be a day for another happy medium with protection effects and mid-range awesomeness, Maverick-style, but I think those days are long over.
I could be entirely wrong. My new deck is largely untested, so only much time will tell. Abnormality has gotten ahold of my list (yay), and I did watch him play a few matches that were admittedly really awkward and inconsistent with there being no ramp at all (boo), even though he did win the set (yay?). If I can stay atop my classwork, maybe I'll get some matches in this weekend.
To answer your questions:
Even before adding all of the sorceries, Thalia was a double-edged sword for me. She's a stronger fit in Merdock's version, I'd say.
To seemingly contradict myself, Teeg still has a stronger purpose as something that can definitively hinder Wanderer's true power (and stop sweepers if that's the only thing that can kill my protected Norn or Sigarda), and has proven useful in plenty of other matchups. In the good-ole gold-fishy days, I used to always get Teeg into play and based my deck around him, but more than ever these days he's more of a last-ditch effort to winning in a toolbox that is sometimes in reach, but usually not. Delay tactics, Thalia-style, just don't seem to get me anywhere relative to "nope"-style cards.
Bummer! My thread's not up to par quite yet and isn't ready for Primer status at this time. I was given some great guidance though, including adding/tweaking these sections:
Deck History
Changelog
Why play this commander?
Better strategy tips
I'm thinking I could add a general cost analysis of the cards (I could at least keep my deck up-to-date on a site that does this automatically), and offer cheaper alternatives to make a sort-of budget-friendly option.
Is there anything that the rest of you would like to see in the opening posts?
OMFG, MY LONG ASS POST GOT DELETED BY A BULL**** "YOU'RE NOT LOGGED IN" SCREEN AND GOING BACK DIDN'T SAVE IT $#@RTDFSGEFG$R$#WKQRTOUJ#TJOHR
Bottom line: I've tried the hell out of a stax/control/tax variant Sisay list, seems sub-optimal to me. Inconsistent, too costly, not enough redundancy in the effects, way too many factors to reliably break the symmetry.
And you make a good point that I should include a deck history of all the different types of Sisays I've gone through in the OP.
Pretty self-evident and/or I'm not retyping everything goddammit.
Evergreen and I played 4 matches last night, went 2-2 and I think won 4 each. Here's how I won:
Iona twice
Norn/Teeg/Hollow once
Linvala/Living Plane once
In brief, I made some play mistakes a few games that lost me the game right then and there (may have lost later too, who knows), but overall I finally feel like I can contend with Iname and can at least go as fast as him. More testing required, but I think these are the three ways I want to win most and should play cards that revolve around these three win cons.
I'm gonna go through all my posts in this thread and determine what my changes have been by date for the change log, since I'm pretty sure I've posted about every single one of them.
9/23/12 EDIT: Massively overhauled the OP, using Leroy's primer as an example (beautiful). There's much more work to be done on the guts, but everything's transferred into the new style.
Just got back from a 38 man french 1 on 1 commander here at manila,
Went 4-0-1 with Sisay, using almost the same list as I had before - Thrun + Iona, some other minor changes here and there. I lost miserably to Zur in the top 8, 1st round I made a terrible mistake naming blue with my Iona, for fear of clone effects and such, only for her to get stped, second match, I was severely flooded, with only 2 removals and drew land after land then Life from the Loam then more lands, I drew Nevermore after he played Zur which was such a bummer. I would say that I should have mulligan-ed more aggressively for both matches.
Most of the matches I won behind survival, into Iona/Norn, I usually get Iona vs blue, because the bounce and clone effects are such a pain in the @!?, and so far it has proven to be effective, except for Zur. I think it would be great if we can we come up with a list of what would be the correct color to name with Iona based on their general or if Iona/Norn would be the correct legend to cheat into play, since this is one of our most common plays/win conditions.
I'm now a believer of Sun Titan, he won me a match after my Jhoira opponent took 3 consecutive turns and dropped a Ulamog! He was able to swing twice but I had a full board, I kinda knew the eldrazi was coming, I was a little prepared. I was able to cast lignify which was countered, then I attacked with the Titan and turned his 10/10 to a 0/4 dork. He scooped after.
Dust bowl is awesome btw, I locked out my Kalia opponent by shooting of his lands, I had bullets since he was on the draw and I resolved a land tax *evil*
I might try this new direction of yours, by adding more land search and possibly a fast bond/exploration, just to minimize the effects of board sweepers. I almost cried when my opponent killed my Joraga, Dryad Arbor, Bird and Elf, leaving me unable to recover.
Congrats, dragzz! Another top 8 for Sisay is a win for us all. =)
Sun Titan never ceases to amaze me (or to be a very common tutor target that turns games around in my favor). I've very often recurred Lignify ftw. Glad to see it's producing results for you, too.
I've had an impossibly difficult time myself naming colors with Iona against W/U/B. On the one hand, you want to stop their clones and counterspells. On the other hand, you want to prevent them from permanently exiling your Iona. On the third hand, Black kills everything and can tutor out an answer.
...
Well, when I put it like that, I think Black is usually the best choice, even if it's not always the correct choice. It just has way more potential to get your opponent out of a bind with tutors than any other color. It's definitely not a clear choice and more like a 34/33/33 for whether you call B, W, or U, and your choice may change depending on what spells you've already seen cast (ie, how likely am I to see another clone effect or exile or kill spell?).
I can work on putting these considerations in the matchup analysis. It's a much easier decision against most other decks, but there are enough weird ones to warrant a guide.
I don't think I play enough lands (or +lands) to get the most out of Dust Bowl. I seem to almost always have something better to do with the mana anyway, like casting Sisay or something she tutored. Going from 38 to 37 lands should be fine, given all the ramp and land tutors. I could be wrong, but 37 was the optimal number "before."
Talisman, imo, is a worse Nature's Lore. I'd much rather make my subsequent draws (slightly) better than.. not. I've been having a ton of games where I just keep drawing land after land after land. Enough is enough! To that end, Fierce Empath is back, and he can help me ensure that I get a bomb that game, and that bomb can now once again be Prime Time, who makes sure I don't stall out at 6 lands and just keep drawing more lands and playing the topdeck race with my opponent. So far, he's testing well. So far, everything's testing well.
Pridemage is faster than Acidic Slime. Using GSZ to get out of a bind (UGH Pithing Needle), and his speed can mean earlier equips. It's all good. He may yet be replaced with Seal of Primordium, though. Still tutorable.
As for previous recent changes: Congregation at Dawn has shown up once so far, but it did wonders. No testing of Monolith yet. Hall of the Bandit Lord gave me crazy awesome things in the two games that I either had it in my opener or tutored for it.
Deck is looking awesome. Deck still has not played Griselbrand or Maelstrom Wanderer, though...
Note: I'm keeping track of my wins/losses now and the win %. I'll be putting that data into the OP after more matches have been played, but so far I'm positive vs. Iname and Momir Elfball. ;P
EDIT: I've been looking at Last Breath with a bit more scrutiny. I'm fairly certain it was added as another means to fight Edric. It's certainly had its uses against other decks, though. However, with the meta shifting as it is towards big fatties and Oath, maybe I want a (slightly) more versatile option. I'll be giving Selesnya Charm a try. It can pump Sisay out of burn range, act as removal with the pump, exile Titans, maybe allow Sword of Fire and Ice to connect, and give me a creature if I need something to equip. Ought to be good. I would have preferred a card that tutored a land, exiled any creature, and disenchanted, but what can you do. ;P
EDIT 2: Okay, yes, Selesnya Charm is in. But out comes Gideon Jura in its place. If I were going some kind of Wrath heavy / Humility route, he would make sense, but with my version of the deck.. I've never once even thought about his existence in the deck (nor has he factored into any victories and wouldn't have turned any game around). He's just pretty random. So Gideon's coming out in place of Charm.
As for Last Breath: It's good enough, I think. Exiling Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Priest of Titania, and on and on, is still a really good idea and helps hinder my opponent enough to allow me a mid-game (usually, you just need to get rid of ONE thing that can give your opponent a crazy advantage, buying you enough time to lock out all of their small creatures with Norn a few turns down the road). It definitely has its uses, and cheap exiling effects will perhaps always be coveted.
Greetings, everyone! Today, my Sisay thread version 2.0 is live! It's a few days ahead of its official birthday, but, um, whatever, I was impatient. ;P
Over the last week or so, I've made the following changes to the opening post:
Created Sections linked by an Index
Peppered the entire OP with card images that are central to the deck
Added a Deck History section
Expanded "Why Choose Sisay?" section
Added CMC breakdown for the main deck
Added a "Draw Sample Hand" link for the main deck
Added an approximate cost of the main deck
Changed the "How to Play" section to a guide on winning with the deck, with a statistical breakdown of the ways you're most likely to win
Completely reworked the Card Choices section to explain the latest cards
Overhauled the Matchups section to include more Generals, an updated explanation for key things to consider for each match, the odds of winning the match (e.g., 60/40), and which color to call if Iona resolves
Added a new section with win percentages against decks, crediting the pilots as well
Added a Change Log section
Thanks to Leroy for the inspiration on most of these! And thanks to all of you for keeping the Selesnya dream alive!
If you missed my latest changes, I've edited them into the last post (re: Selesnya Charm).
I think running Thalia, Guardian of Thraben is your best bet against all-in combo decks like Lyserg's. Other options are Trinisphere and Ethersworn Canonist.
They exist because you have a more varied metagame if combo decks exist and that's not a bad thing (I'm not saying that it should be this combo deck because oath is broken but it would be nice to have at least one viable non-general based combo deck).
Honestly ethersworn canonist & thalia are probably good creatures to include anyway as they should hurt you much less than most other decks. Aside from that true believer could work as well. I don't think it is worth devoting slots to as you will probably lose regardless - with my Olivia deck I have given up Iname because I will never win it consistently without adding a ton of graveyard hate.
BRWC Mardu Shops - Tymna and Akiri Artifacts BRWC
You should be more concerned with Aggro and Control more than combo.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Default win! Kwiznek was out of town and had to forfeit the match.
**SUPER SPECIAL BONUS ALERT**
Kwiznek and I played a "what-if?" set on April 7th, though with post-Avacyn Restored decklists. This was my first experience playing against the archetype, but I did sit in on his round 2 match and knew what to expect: lots and lots of neatuering enchantments! If I'm a fan of of the power of Lignify in EDH, then Kwiznek is an absolute zealot of this all-enchantment cult, haha.
Game 1:
A very close game where we both go all in early on our generals, he casts Oath of Druids, but I kill it before it gets active. Ultimately, he neuters my general and I neuter his (double Lignify!), but his manlands get there.
Game 2:
I pull out of the jaws of defeath this game with a shrouded Sisay, just one swing away from dying to general damage, sticking Linvala with Hollow back-up to chump Jenara. Norn and friends deal lethal.
Game 3:
Humility and Jace 2.0. Need I say more? My early Survival means nothing this game. I manage to drop tons of annoyingness, nevertheless, and my 1/1s and manlands almost get there, bringing Kwiznik to single digits. Jace is about to go ultimate, and I concede.
If we'd play this out for real, I may not have won and the whole tournament would have gone differently! Then again, I didn't get Aura Shards in any of those games, so who knows. ;P (I'm being facetious here; Kwiznik built a great deck and has his fair share of enchantment hate, including at least 3 that can be tutored for).
Record: 1-0
Round 2 (vs. Moondust's Adun Kiki-Ooze Combo)
I've seen this deck a lot on Cockatrice, and I know that it's pretty much "all in graveyard combo." I also know that it stomps unsuspecting decks, which is why I've placed it high tier on my personal tier list. The deck is resilient and very consistent with its green and black tutoring package, so I had due respect for the deck already before the games began.
Game 1:
He wins the toss and plays a land and passes. I keep a pretty solid hand that would allow for a turn 3 shrouded Sisay--but with some risks. I take my first chance on turn one, playing Utopia Sprawl on Savannah (I had no basics or fetches in hand), hoping he's not holding Wasteland. Turn 2, he plays Wasteland and 2-for-1's me. -_-
Well, one of the reasons I like my hand is because it has Relic of Progenetus in the opener. I figure I better cast this now or it may be discarded later. It'll also be a good distraction for the Survival in my hand. I play a land and Relic on turn 2 and pass. I think, on his turn 3, he plays another land and passes.
On my turn 3, I GSZ for Sylvan Safekeeper, who eats removal at end of turn. I sac a land to keep him around. Yes, this puts me at just 1 land, but I've got a feeling there's more removal where that came from and I need Sisay to stick.
Indeed! Turn 4, he plays more removal on Safekeeper, and I have to let him go. I've got Tithe in hand, but I can't be stuck on 1 land for long. End of his turn, I cast Tithe, untap, and play Survival--but I have no creatures in hand to use. As hoped, he plays removal at the end of my turn, sending Survival to the Graveyard.
On his next turn, he plays Eternal Witness and gets back some more removal (Pulse I think was the only one left, as I've been removing a card in his GY every turn with Relic), and I play Enlightened Tutor at the end of his turn to put Sylvan Library on top of my library, knowing that I have to keep baiting his removal. I also cast Sylavn Tutor for Yavimaya Hollow, gearing up to cast Sisay.
As planned, he kills my Sylvan Library during his turn, swings and passes. I decide to give him another target and play Elspeth, which he also manages to spot remove during his turn. Next turn I've got enough mana to cast Sisay with Hollow backup, just in case he has any more spot removal spells.
But then he plays some mana dorks and Olivia. Oh ****. Olivia eats this deck alive.
Sisay resolves with Hollow backup, but he'll have none of that. Olivia bites Sisay and then steals her. I start taking some serious damage. It's looking grim for team Selesnya.
During my turn, I cast Journey to Nowhere on Olivia, and he's finally out of removal options! He casts his general and passes, and at last I get to start tuturing with Sisay. Just to be as cautious as I can be, I tutor up Thrun with what turns out to be my only tutor opportunity (as Sisay gets killed after this), and it turns out to be a good target. Thrun and Treetop Village take this game, eventually dealing lethal. Big sigh of relief.
Game 2:
My hand this time around is okay, not great, and on his turn 1 he Thoughtseizes my Mana Tithe. I play a land and pass. He plays two mana dorks. Err. I forget what I do next (panic a little?), but it was either this turn or the next that I cast Steelshaper's Gift and get Greeves in hand. On his turn 3, he plays Survival of the Fittest with mana open. Oh **** oh ****. I've drawn Beast Within since his discard spell, so I kill it as fast as I can. He pitches Anger to the graveyard, one part of his combo.
His mana dorks help him play his general fast with mana backup to feed his ability (and he's hasted, too), but he doesn't have any targets. The other thing he lacks is spot removal, so I manage to play Sisay and attach the greaves on turn 4. He transmutes Shred Memory for Demonic Tutor which he'll use to find Damnation, but this takes too many turns. By this point, I've cast Teeg and Elesh Norn with Yavimaya Hollow backup and he's just got a 1/1 beast token in play.
I get a few turns to swing with the team before he draws into (or maybe was holding it?) Dismember, and he kills Teeg, but he knows from earlier that I've had Loyal Retainers in hand all game so he's been buying time to be able to cast both Dismember and Damnation in the same turn.
However, that time does not come, as I've got lethal on the board and he doesn't have enough mana without the dorks to swing the game back in his favor. He does the math and concedes.
Record: 2-0
Round 3 (vs. omgmakeme's Zur Control)
This is another deck I've got a ton of familiarity with from watching games on Cockatrice. Terrifyingly, it's a deck that I've almost never seen lose. Omgmakeme has a very smart approach to Zur and is one the most patient, flawless players on Cockatrice. I know, it sounds like I'm trying to court him or something, but I'm just being honest; this was not a matchup I was feeling confident about. Nevertheless, I do think both generals are equally capable, and I just had to trust that my hands would be hotter than his.
Game 1: Yep, my trust is immediatley broken. Bad deck! No treat for you. I get zero ramp, zero protection, AND zero removal in my opener. So not only do I have nothing to offer in the way of targets, but I can't even hope to stop Zur. I think I manage a turn 3 Sisay after an early elf draw, which gets eaten by Disfigure that was Brainstorm'd for. I tap out for something of little consequence on turn 4, and on his turn 4 he plays Zur, not buying that I'm baiting him with removal (or perhaps has FoW in hand or something). He starts swinging, and this game ends very quickly with Zur answering what little things I have on the field while keeping plenty of mana open for the stream of counters that spell my demise.
Game 2: I decide to gamble on a two land hand that has Land Tax. When I play it turn 1, I suspect he has Misstep in hand given his hesitation to let it resolve, and I'm thankful that it makes it into play. On his turn 1, he Wastelands my Savannah, and on turn 2 I opt to not play a land so that Tax can get active, knowing he won't have a one mana answer for it in his colors. To make a long story short, this gamble pays off, and I get the maximum value out of Land Tax, tutoring every basic out of my library, most of which get pitched to the yard because I've still got a full grip (and because his second land drop is Rishdan Port, which keeps me slowed down for several turns).
I'm blanking on the exact details of this game, but one of the reasons I didn't want to mess with my hand is because it had two removal spells for Zur in it. These are so necessary and one of them gets used right when it needs to be, and then I eventually draw into Lignify, which is the turning point of this game. My opponent has used up all his answers in hand to counter and kill Sisay and other threats, so after he recasts his general for I believe the second time (perhaps one of my removals was mental misstep'd? I forget), I Lignify it and actually get to play and untap with Sisay. Norn and Saffi come along and I play Elspeth from hand (with a resolved Steely Resolve in play to back-up Sisay), and he concedes.
Game 3: Omgmakeme opts to play first, something not characteristic of him as he usually opts for the reactive plan and the card advantage--but for this matchup, it's really a race to get our generals into play and protected. We're both treated terribly on our draws and mulligans, and I have to pitch so much greatness (ramp and protection both, while holding one removal spell for Zur) to go to 4 cards just to see a single land while he had to go down to 5 cards. He throws down a plains and passes, and I play Sylvan Safekeeper, who sadly eats a Force Spike. On his turn 2, he plays a land and passes, and I play Expedition Map. This is the most pivotal point in the game, and cause for quite a bit of discussion.
Ultimately, I decide to tutor up Rishdan Port, not confident that I'll draw enough lands to recoup the tempo loss and not trusting that he won't draw any more lands to outrace me in playing his general. It's certainly arguable that I should have trusted my draws better and gotten Wasteland instead (but hey, the Cockatrice shuffler is terrible?). The gamble almost pays off when I'm at 5 mana and he's stuck on 4, and I just need to topdeck a single land to pull off Sisay with the mana left open to tap down his 4th land (I should definitely note, he's resolved a Lighting Greaves, so allowing Zur to enter the battlefield is simply not an option since we're both in topdeck mode and need our generals to stick). Sadly, I topdeck a creature, and he manages his 5th land, which pretty much spells the end for me.
Still, I play it out, and manage to get him down to 9 life with Scavenging Ooze, forcing him to answer absolutely everything I play or potentially face lethal in a turn or two. I recast Sisay several times (and actually run him out cards to pitch to Forbid, even with Phyrexian Arena in play), but he's building up an inevitable advantage which ultimately brings him stability with Steel of the Godhead and Planeswalkers on board. This game is incredibly close and could have gone very differently (especially given how it started poorly for both of us mana-wise, and I could have gambled the other way on the land tutor and counted on drawing two more lands myself the next two turns, as I ended up doing just a turn late), but he solidly takes the win in the end.
Record: 2-1
Round 4 (vs. Capitacom's Olivia Control)
Full disclosure: I completely expected to lose this one 2-0. It was difficult scheduling a time because we were an ocean apart and both had much gong on, so I was tempted to just forfeit the round and spare myself the inevitable deaths. Why so glum, you ask? Well, I consider this exact build to be our worst overall matchup. Before our scheduled match, I took a peek at Capitacom's last shared decklist: 7 sweepers with all the best targeted removal and hand disruption in the colors. Also, Aether Flash. Outlook: AHHHHHH!
Game 1:
I keep a risky hand that's going to require some luck with 2 dorks, 2 lands, and GSZ. My opponent plays draw go, then (he's on the play) drops a turn 3 Aether Flash. Thankfully, I've got the tutor, and use GSZ to bomb Flash with Qasali Pridemage on the stack, using all my mana. He plyays more ramp, and I play a naked Sisay next turn, and then he Pyroclasm's my board.
He plays Olivia, bu I'm waiting with Lignify in hand. And thus begins the recast Sisay/watch Sisay die to spot removal game. She finally sticks for 8, and I play defensisvely and grab Yavimaya Hollow first. Good call. He plays Bloodgift Demon and Graveborn Muse, digging deep for removal and coming up short. I get Norn and Linvala swinging, and tutoring up Jitte forces the concession. But let's be honest: this game's winner is Lignify.
Game 2:
Nevermore is in my opener. Nothing else matters. Aside from Lignify, this is the only hope I have of beating Olivia. I just have to pray for no turn one Thought Seize. Haha, my prayers go unanswered; he plays a turn 1 Thoughtseize, and I figure that's going to be it for me.
But the choice isn't so simple. I kept a one-lander with Tithe, Avacyn's Pilgrim, Mother of Runes, Greaves, and Green Sun Zenith. After some though, he decides that GSZ has got to go. Huge relief! I draw a land, play my dork, and pass. Draw, go. I resolve a turn 2 Nevermore, naming his general, feeling confident.
After fighting through tons of removal (Infest, spot removals), Sisay sticks for 8 mana again with Greaves. But this game is far less fortunate for Kwiznel's draws as he manages no threats, and Hollow followed by all my remaining Legends gets there, even though both Linvala and Norn have been killed and exiled via his Relic at this point. Jitte and Thrun take it, and I win my nightmare matchup thanks to Lignify and Nevermore--and Mana Tithing his turn 3 Dystopia (which explains why he made me discard GSZ).
Record: 3-1
Round 4 (vs Gaka's Geist Tempo)
Pre-game, Gaka and I are both realistic about this matchup and wager it's about 50/50. We've played a few sets in the past to substantiate this, and it's an equally awkward match for us both; I have to play around conditional counters and he usually has to wait several turns to make sure the coast is clear, and each turn is wrought with agonizing decesions.
Game 1:
Gaka resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, with me having no removal. But it's okay, as I have a hand that I can do something with, and get a shrouded Sisay active. He's staring me down with tons of damage coming, but I really screw him over with a Wasteland, then manage to resolve a few Sisay threats and kill his Jitte, taking this game handily.
Game 2:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal, and proceeds to load up his Mystic with almost every equipment he runs. I manage no removal, and my mediocre hand gets me nowhere. Despite not being able to even cast his general, I have nothing to stop Mystic with swords and Jitte from taking this game handily.
Game 3:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal. Sensing a pattern here? My hand, like in game 2, is pretty pathetic despite the mulligan, and I make a fatally safe play by dropping my only basic land on turn 1, a Forest, not wanting to play City of Brass (my only source of white) on turn 1 to watch it get eaten by a Wasteland (something that happens EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY, so this isn't an unfounded concern). This proves to be stupidly over-safe, however, as I don't have a white source to stop his Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, despite having Mana Tithe in hand. I'm positive that he would have been ultimately non-relevant while stuck on 2 lands for several turns the rest of this game, but alas: Mystic again goes voltron with three equipments. Derp.
This game goes back and forth and it looks like I've got control with my own Mystic entering the field, nabbing me Greaves. I also get Teeg onto the board, but opt to keep my greaves on Mystic as she is also carrying a Sword of Fire and Ice, and I need her to keep his Mystic in check. However, the naked Teeg gets bounced at the end of my turn, and he plays Jace the Mind Scultpor. Yes, his only real threats all three games were Mytstic and Jace, which is totally a first in the history of Magic. Still, I've got a very powerful secret in hand, and I finally get the opportunity to play it: Primeval Titan. Who immediately eats Path to Exile. Of course.
I hope and pray for a tutor or Norn off the top, who has the potential to swing the game here, but I have to tap out for Oblivion Ring to deal with Jitte and play Sisay and get the greaves on her and--lose. He's got lethal on the board, just enough to prevent me from having another turn. God. Dammit.
I probably should have been bolder on the turn 1 land drop (I kept a three lander after a mull, with the third being Gaea's cradle with 2 creatures in hand, both of which got countered), but taking big risks like that can lead to blowouts. I'm not sure I would have played it differently unless I had another white source in hand. Still, extremely frustrating, as I essentially lost to one card. And to pre-empt criticism of some of my recent omisions: no, Fiend Hunter and Oust were obviously not the answer here.
Record 3-2
At this point, the three losers of round 5 battle it out for the final spot in the top 8. This includes me, Jarreth, and Pano. I face off against Pano in the first of these rounds, who is piloting a Merieke extinction build. I can't. Catch. A break.
Round 5.1
Game 1:
I really wish I'd gotten a screen cap of this game, particularly Pano's graveyard several turns in. He has cast 2 sweepers, three spot removals, and a counterspell, preventing me from getting absolutely anywhere in the early turns, despite having a solid start with both ramp and Sisay protection (which amounts to nothing here). I keep answering his general and dropping creatures that he has to answer in the mid-late game, but this is no trouble for him at all as he draws his way into Humility on turn 7, after Snuffing Out my resolved Norn on turn 6 with his only card in hand. Though we're both topdecking cards, his man lands followed up with Sword of Feast and Famine are enough to get there.
Game 2:
My deck does what it's designed to do this game--overextend and not get blown out by a sweeper! Erm, wait...
Again, I manage both early protection and ramp, and after he taps out for Merieke, I tap out for Sisay. On turn 5, I hard-cast both Norn and Dauntless Escort with Sylvan Safkeeper in play. He's dead in a few swings and can't deal with the board state (and admits to having just lands in hand), so concedes.
Game 3:
I mulligan a bit, and have to settle for a hand that's just 4 lands, ramp, and a creature tutor at 6 cards, since he's keeping a full grip. If I'm going to be outracing counters and removal again like game one, I've gotta keep what I can. He gets the turn 1 Thought Seize and takes the ramp.
I figure that the only card that makes sense to tutor up this game is Thrun, so I go for it. On his third turn, he plays Clique and sends Thrun right back into the deck. Fine. He's tapped out, so I drop Ancient Tomb, Benevolent Bodyguard, and go all in for Sisay.
And then he plays a turn 4 Humility. =|
My impulse is to scoop, but I decide to play it out. I manage to drop more creatures than he does and have land control for his man land, but he once again draws into Sword of Feast and Famine, plays Gideon, kills all my dudes, and that's game.
---
As Jarreth beats Pano, I'm called upon to fight yet another match. Jarreth is piloting Gaka's Damia Oath deck, one that I've played against before. It's a freaking nightmare, like all of the other decks I've been talking about. It's designed to control every single thing you do (targeted removal, discard, counter magic, and sweeps too) and derp its way into a victory via Oath. It really wouldn't be a deck without the brokenness that is Oath, so I just have to hope my opponent doesn't see it before I reach my win con.
Game 1:
I keep a great hand with both ramp and protection, and draw Norn on my opener. Nothing of mine gets countered or killed, oddly enough, and Sisay untaps for Gaea's Cradle, giving me the turn 4 Norn. However, on his turn 4 (he's on the play), he's already resolved a turn 3 Phyrexian Arena and a turn 4 Oath of Druids. Derp.
Turns out I'm in good shape, though. He Oaths into Rune-Scarred Demon, and I don't know what he tutors. I dig for Enchantment removal with my Sylvan Library and destroy Oath at the end of my turn, having resolved more beaters to end the game quicker with Norn (Birds of Paradise is a beater lolol). He taps out for Damia, and at the end of my turn I use E. Tutor for Lignify, swing out, and he concedes.
Game 2:
I can't even be mad about the outcome of this game. My opponent ultimate'd Karn and restarted the game with Blightsteel Colossus, and had FoW in hand to stop the potential of me having turn one STP (I was on the play). Pretty funny, all in all. Ha. Ha.
But I CAN be mad that I had Defense of the Heart out and Forbidden Orchard active, and he managed to wipe the board THREE times to reset his dudes (Damnation, Engineered Explosives, and Deed). And then, when it finally met its condition, he had, of all cards, Voidslime to counter the trigger. I don't even.
Long story short, I recast Sisay for 10. She simply couldn't stick, but that's not surprising; Damia Oath is a deck that can be in full control against aggro-control decks like mine with absurd ease. Sigh.
Game 3:
...never happens. Drama drama drama, we both drop out of the tournament.
TL;DR
Everyone was WELL-PREPARED for Edric and thus any aggro-control build, which have traditionally dominated French top 8s. Because of that, I was facing off against heavy control extinction builds and decks built around Humility and Oath, which eat Edric and decks like mine alive.
But despite the competition, I still did really damned well and managed a top 10 finish (could have possibly been higher without the drama drama drama). I made some huge changes to the deck to prepare for the extinction builds, and the deck performed admirably considering it still needs squishy easily-killed creatures to get anywhere.
Closing thought: I love Lignify more than any other 2 mana green spell in this format. Yes, even that one. Every green mage should run it.
Thanks for reading!
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
Round 4 (vs Gaka's Geist Tempo)
Pre-game, Gaka and I are both realistic about this matchup and wager it's about 50/50. We've played a few sets in the past to substantiate this, and it's an equally awkward match for us both; I have to play around conditional counters and he usually has to wait several turns to make sure the coast is clear, and each turn is wrought with agonizing decesions.
Indeed. However as shown by the 2-1 victory this is actually a 66/33 matchup. Duh.
Game 1:
Gaka resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, with me having no removal. But it's okay, as I have a hand that I can do something with, and get a shrouded Sisay active. He's staring me down with tons of damage coming, but I really screw him over with a Wasteland, then manage to resolve a few Sisay threats and kill his Jitte, taking this game handily.
I admit going for Jitte was a mistake. I was hoping to control your board after getting a few swings in - but this doesn't work very well when I don't have much to swing with. The wasteland was probably the play of the game though. Not a whole lot I could do afterwards.
Game 2:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal, and proceeds to load up his Mystic with almost every equipment he runs. I manage no removal, and my mediocre hand gets me nowhere. Despite not being able to even cast his general, I have nothing to stop Mystic with swords and Jitte from taking this game handily.
This time I elected to control the hand and the stack. To this effect, I searched for FaF. All the better to whelp you with, my dear! Drawing extra swords didn't hurt.
Game 3:
My opponent once again gets stuck on few lands and once again resolves Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, again with me having no removal. Sensing a pattern here? My hand, like in game 2, is pretty pathetic despite the mulligan, and I make a fatally safe play by dropping my only basic land on turn 1, a Forest, not wanting to play City of Brass (my only source of white) on turn 1 to watch it get eaten by a Wasteland (something that happens EXTREMELY FREQUENTLY, so this isn't an unfounded concern).
I was actually prepared not to cast the stoneforge on turn 2 if you did present white. I can't remember if I drew a wasteland or not here, but I did know that trying to force stoneforge through a mana tithe would have been a really stupid idea.
This proves to be stupidly over-safe, however, as I don't have a white source to stop his Stoneforge Mystic on turn 2, despite having Mana Tithe in hand. I'm positive that he would have been ultimately non-relevant while stuck on 2 lands for several turns the rest of this game, but alas: Mystic again goes voltron with three equipments. Derp.
We form Voltron.
This game goes back and forth and it looks like I've got control with my own Mystic entering the field, nabbing me Greaves. I also get Teeg onto the board, but opt to keep my greaves on Mystic as she is also carrying a Sword of Fire and Ice, and I need her to keep his Mystic in check. However, the naked Teeg gets bounced at the end of my turn, and he plays Jace the Mind Scultpor. Yes, his only real threats all three games were Mytstic and Jace, which is totally a first in the history of Magic.
Caw! Caw!
I did not like being forced to bounce teeg, but a hand with Jace, cryptic and wrath - it seemed like a good idea. I was all-in on the jace plan by the end, hoping to get lethal jitte with the looter while preventing you from doing anything meaningful with the board via -1/-1s.
Still, I've got a very powerful secret in hand, and I finally get the opportunity to play it: Primeval Titan. Who immediately eats Path to Exile. Of course.
I was holding the path for sisay, but I suppose this works too.
I hope and pray for a tutor or Norn off the top, who has the potential to swing the game here, but I have to tap out for Oblivion Ring to deal with Jitte and play Sisay and get the greaves on her and--lose. He's got lethal on the board, just enough to prevent me from having another turn. God. Dammit.
Math. Nuff said.
Record 0-x
Everyone was WELL-PREPARED for Edric and thus any aggro-control build, which have traditionally dominated French top 8s. Because of that, I was facing off against heavy control extinction builds and decks built around Humility and Oath, which eat Edric and decks like mine alive.
Defenitely - I almost went with Damia or my own Adun grave-combo (developed separately from m00ndust's but except for 5 cards virtually identical) but I felt that I had a better chance of doing well with Geist by virtue of the increase of Humility-based decks I had seen and tested. My swords + manlands make Humility irrelevant to me.
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
I've been in the steely grips of Diablo 3 over the last several months, but I've moved on (hooray, kicking the habit!). I logged into Cockatrice last night and played a set against Bobah's Zoo Uril list. Great player! I won't blame rustiness on my loss; I'll blame card choices! ;P
I've swapped out Burgeoning and Sterling Grove to re-include Weathered Wayfarer and Skullclamp. Having had time to set the down deck for a few months and come at it again with fresh eyes and not theory-crafting-rabbit-hole eyes, I think Wayfarer and Clamp suit the toolbox/land drop consistency nature of the deck better than the other two cards, both in cost and topdeck usefulness. And I think they've certainly proven themselves in the meta, in the experience of others.
Anyway: I'm back, baby! And I've just applied for one of those fancy official Primer tags.
I figured that I should comment on Generie Peco's Captain Sisay deck, who has now placed in the top 8 of two large Phillipines-based tournaments in a row. (Thread can be found here)
Looks pretty solid! Very similar to my Legacy Maverick-ish list with a few differences in cards that I've tried at one point or another. Here's his list from August's tournament, for your consideration:
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arid Mesa
1 Brushland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
6 Forest
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Homeward Path
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kor Haven
1 Maze of Ith
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mutavault
4 Plains
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 Savannah
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Sungrass Prairie
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Temple Garden
1 Wasteland
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Hollow
Creatures
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Fyndhorn Elves
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Mother of Runes
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Ethersworn Canonist
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Grand Abolisher
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Aven Mindcensor
1 Dauntless Escort
1 Eternal Witness
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Intrepid Hero
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Captain Sisay
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Ranger of Eos
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Reveillark
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Sun Titan
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Green Sun’s Zenith
1 Land Tax
1 Nature's Claim
1 Oust
1 Path to Exile
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tithe
1 Wild Growth
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Life from the Loam
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Lignify
1 Steely Resolve
1 Sterling Grove
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Aura Shards
1 Aura of Silence
1 Beast Within
1 Crib Swap
1 Dense Foliage
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Birthing Pod
1 Faith's Fetters
Pretty straightforward. Curves similarly to mine and plays about the same mix of answers/threats/ramp/utility and only a choice few Legends. I approve!
...not that someone with better tournament placements than me needs my approval, but still. ;P
Anyone else out there still playing Sisay? Any new tech you've stumbled upon?
My Captain Sisay Duel Commander Primer
Duel Commander Mega-Thread
1 Captain Sisay
// Legendary Creatures (10)
1 Arashi, the Sky Asunder
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Hokori, Dust Drinker
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
//Creatures (20)
1 Arbor Elf
1 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Benevolent Bodyguard
1 Birds of Paradise
1 Bloom Tender
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Harmonic Sliver
1 Joraga Treespeaker
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Llanowar Elves
1 Mother of Runes
1 Primeval Titan
1 Qasali Pridemage
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Scryb Ranger
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Sun Titan
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Aura Shards
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Lignify
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Steely Resolve
1 Sterling Grove
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
//Artifacts (8)
1 Expedition Map
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Sol Ring
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Thousand-Year Elixir
1 Umezawa's Jitte
//Instants (8)
1 Beast Within
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Last Breath
1 Nature's Claim
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Worldly Tutor
//Sorceries (5)
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Nature's Lore
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Three Visits
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
//Lands (38)
1 Arid Mesa
1 Brushland
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Command Tower
1 Dust Bowl
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flooded Strand
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Homeward Path
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kor Haven
1 Marsh Flats
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Mutavault
1 Savannah
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Strip Mine
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Temple Garden
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Windswept Heath
1 Wooded Bastions
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Yavimaya Hollow
8 Forest
5 Plains
It's a blast to play and quite powerful. Keep up the great work! I'll hopefully be able to add to the discussion here and there. I hope Ravnica brings us lots of new toys to play with.
EDIT: I don't usually play French Rules, so I have stuff like Sol Ring and Strip Mine in there.
Thanks Riley, a lot of my list's inspiration came from this thread I would like to give credit to you guys for the starting list. I tweaked it a bit based on my playstyle and available cards since im playing it IRL. Spent quite a lot esp with the retainers, but it has been absolutely awsome.
I personally don't like exploration and burgeoing, just didn't seem to do a lot without the land finding cards like cultivate and stuff. But I must admit it was a bonkers when I had land tax out. Although there weren't really a lot of cards with high manacost to really take advantage of the land drops.
I to am trying out the clamp, seems unfair in a deck like this that runs a complete suite of manadorks.
One thing I haven't seen in most list is crib swap, this card have been significant, and even tutorable with Treefolk Harbringer.
I like the flexibilty of sterling grove, I'm not sure if it's the right thing to cut if you would want wayfarer or clamp in. But the good thing about sisay is the flexibility of the deck, you can basically swap cards in and out and it would still flow beautifully.
Cards I'm not sure of is Thrun and Sun Titan, the best thing it did for me so far is to get pitched to survival/fauna they seem really strong on paper, but with all the tutor that this deck has, i usually go for the more significant cards, ie Elesh and Sigarda.
I really think you should try taking Sisay in a new direction, if only for the sake of seeing how it runs (and potentially making her more competitive). When I look at your list, I almost ask myself: "Why not just play Rhys aggro?", but I know you love Sisay.
I've always had great love for Sisay, given that she was the first EDH deck I ever built. I'm currently playing a 1v1 Nath deck (another old favourite) that I recently revived and I'm trying hard to make it work, even though the metagame is working against me.
For this new and magical iteration of the deck, I'd probably start off by removing some of the protection options such as Benevolent Bodyguard, Steely Resolve, Mother of Runes, and Sylvan Safekeeper. You can (hopefully) make up for this with more land-based ramp like Cultivate as you mentioned.
Another option would be to make the deck more like Rhys; less control and more aggro-oriented. I've always found Rhys to make for a relatively weak general that is mostly only good against heavy control because he guarantees a turn-one potential army maker. GW's strength in the current metagame is to spit out efficient hatebears and must-answer threats in order to chip away at your opponent if he fails to answer them while he waits for the bigger threats. Adding in Hero of Bladehold, Fiend Hunter, Blade Splicer and the new Loxodon Smiter would be useful for the aggro iteration. Your legendary creatures are already largely geared toward an aggro-plan against control, so this could work.
Anyway, just wanted to share some thoughts. I might come up with a deck list sometime but I want you to know that you're not alone in playing in trying to make more niche generals work!
It's good to be back! Welcome aboard the Sisay Train. First stop: sexy town!
This just brought me THE BIGGEST FROWN. I've been waking up and checking the spoilers first thing every morning, and I'm actually pissed off to see so many goodies for other colors and decks while green/white are the colors of multi-card token engines, narrow "answers," and life gain that is irrelevant in a format with top-tier decks that are fast and combo-rific. So far, at 127 out of 274 cards spoiled, I've seen no new goodies for Sisay. Wah! =(
Given the G/W themese we've seen thus far (seriously, to hell with Detainment, too), I don't have high hopes for the rest of the spoilers.
To be sure, I think some of these cards could fit a brand new casual archetype, and all due kudos to Wizards for nailing what it is that most G/W players expect to see in casual game types like traditional Commander, but bah! So much garbage from my Frenchy perspective.
Oof, yeah, I still don't have a Retainers of my own. It's too good of a card not to own for the deck if you're competing IRL, though. What would you estimate the total cost of your deck to be, out of curiosity? I think I might want to add price estimates to the OP, and I've made a lot of proxy concessions on higher end cards myself...
I definitely need more time to consider Exploration. You're right about the lack of bombs; this version of Sisay isn't really taking advantage of the drops in the same way Maelstrom Wanderer would be, for instance. I suppose my main reason for considering those enchantments was to go toe-to-toe at the same rate as Animar and Iname and to replace the more vulnerable elves, but this probably is both the wrong way to do it and the wrong cards to make such a replacement. Not sure yet, but your hunch might be correct.
Yeah, definitely seems great at >30 creatures, especially with dorks still in. I'd say it's a keeper under these conditions.
I used to run the both of these pre-French, but at some point (around the point that I switched rule sets and metas and decks started to become as tweaked or better than mine and I needed quicker answers) I started to feel really skeptical about 3-mana answers, especially ones that would still give Edric another beater, for instance. I really love both of these cards, but they've both struck me as just not quite good enough for ultra-tuned French. Hell, I didn't even like Oust enough for French (given that I usually want to cast it on a general, and Oh God how underwhelming), so I expect an awful lot out of my removal. I think, maybe, I've been asking for too much to try and stop everything my opponent is trying to do, given the weak removal options in White relative to Black and Red, and I should be focusing more on getting to my win con faster.
I dunno, have these cards been working particularly well for you, together or separately? I'd like to hear some of your anecdotes and I might reconsider their power level in the deck. More toolboxy goodness is often the right answer, but not always.
You may be right here. Even though it's on the slower side to do so with Grove, fetching Survival or Nevermore for the following turn can definitely steal games. I'm leaning towards re-inclusion.
I think I'm definitely over Thrun. Many players twisted my arm to reconsider him after my initial testing, and although his Hexproof and equipment carrying prowess has certainly won me a few games, he's just outclassed by Sigarda now. Not likely to be a tutor target anymore with her in the deck.
Sun Titan, on the other hand, is one of the few cards that can pull me out of a losing situation, and has done so many times. Recurring a single protection guy who's been killed, or Steely Resolve, or Jitte, or Wasteland, or just my previously killed army, has swung many games in my favor in a way that no other card could quite do. But again, online meta is such that pinpoint removal is something you have to expect 90% of the time on each and every turn, so the immediate value the titan affords is, in my opinion, unbeatable in any other w/g card for what he does.
Well have I got a surprise for you!
Expanding on my earlier musings, I thew together a list that swapped out 22-25 cards, some of which I've never even played before. My approach was to strip out every single creature that I don't routinely fetch, take out other cards I've been iffy about, and then replace them with a strategy that goes even more heartily into the plan of "ramp ramp ramp, steal games with the best Legends and G/W combos there are, lol all the way to the bank."
So I played a set with this newly christened deck against Evergreen's Iname, and beat him for the first time in as long as I can remember. Assuredly, GY hate had something to do with it, but I was generally much less vulnerable with the new card choices, and more confident about playing (and inevitably recasting) Sisay. Still, I knew that this build was rough as hell, so I turned it over to Evergreen and Kwiznek and said, "HALP!"
And so they did.
Deep into the night we went through all of the questionable choices and found ourselves saying, "Wait, actually, put that card you cut RIGHT BACK IN MISTER." We found stronger choices for a few cards. We thought about new ways to use all of the new ramp mana. We thought about some of the new decks that have cropped up (Maelstrom and Griselbrand) since my departure from the deck months ago. Then we saw the new R/B general, were awe-struck, and got off topic. But anyway, here's what we ended up with:
1 Captain Sisay
Legends (6)
1 Gaddock Teeg
1 Saffi Eriksdotter
1 Linvala, Keeper of Silence
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
1 Iona, Shield of Emeria
Creatures (9)
1 Veteran Explorer
1 Sylvan Safekeeper
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Stoneforge Mystic
1 Knight of the Reliquary
1 Loyal Retainers
1 Sun Titan
Artifact (7)
1 Expedition Map
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Talisman of Unity
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
Enchantments (12)
1 Land Tax
1 Exploration
1 Wild Growth
1 Sterling Grove
1 Journey to Nowhere
1 Lignify
1 Steely Resolve
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
1 Nevermore
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Living Plane
1 Tithe
1 Mana Tithe
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Nature's Claim
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Last Breath
1 Beast Within
Sorceriers (13)
1 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Nature's Lore
1 Three Visits
1 Into the North
1 Farseek
1 Rampant Growth
1 Sylvan Scrying
1 Tariff
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Cultivate
1 Wrath of God
1 Entreat the Angels
Planeswalkers (5)
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Elspeth Tirel
1 Gideon Jura
Legendary Lands (5)
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Serra's Sanctum
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Yavimaya Hollow
2 Snow-Covered Forest
2 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Command Tower
1 Savannah
1 Temple Garden
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Wooded Bastion
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Brushland
1 Razorverge Thicket
1 City of Brass
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Treetop Village
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Arid Mesa
1 Marsh Flats
1 Homeward Path
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Wasteland
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Rishadan Port
1 Cavern of Souls
1 Mutavault
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Ruins of Trokair
1 Havenwood Battleground
So this is a WEIRD deck list for several reasons. First, it appears to be going several steps backwards, as all of the Rampant Growth effects hearken back to the Khymera/Surging Chaos days of the deck. The re-insertion of Living Plane and Iona is a throwback to an older version of mine that sought to create unloseable sitautions quickly. Despite earlier reliance on Gaddock Teeg in all sorts of different states of the meta, I've included a higher number of 4+ CC non-creature cards, including Entreat the Angels and the whole host of Super Friends. Despite the more creature-oriented push of other G/W decks (including Sisay builds), this deck is host to fewer creatures than ever.
I don't know if this is any good (so far, all I've got is the one set with Iname), but I've really lost a lot of faith in my previous version of Sisay. What I do know for sure that I don't run enough creatures to outpace all of the creature pinpoint and mass removal in the top tier decks (unlike the Rhys deck of recent fame), and I don't run enough ramp and combo to outpace the better combo decks like Animar and Iname nor the ramp decks like Wanderer and Griselbrand. So I've taken a step back from all my pet cards and things that have spoken to various matchups in the past and said "What is it that I do to win, really?"
The answer, of course: is Norn and Jitte.
But when that fails, I've often relied on stealing wins with Survival. I've often relied on stealing wins with Linvala. I've often relied on stealing wins with Iona. So why not focus the deck on winning the most efficiently with the cards that have proven themselves through the years instead of trying to win with everything remotely good in Selesyna and the kitchen finks?
Well, there's plenty of good reasons, including the very existence of blue decks, but their relevance has waned in the reign of Edric and other aggro-control for many months, and then in the rise of Maelstrom making permission decks laughably bad in the meta. So even though shifting gears towards bombs and combo wins has proven unreliable in the past in some of those matchups, this might be the best time to recross those paths and reinstate the best of these "I win" setups.
Sisay still plays a vital role in being a must-answer-immediately general. No one wants to permit Norn to come out to play, or Jitte, or Sigarda, or all of the above. Consitently getting the worst nightmares of players (and not just a steady stream of mild nightmares) seems to be an approach worth pursuing.
I could be very very wrong! I'm cautiously optimistic, as ever before, and lots and lots of testing will be necessary. Realistically speaking, I've long felt that Sisay is the best of the B-Tier decks by virtue of consistency and relative quickness (and, hey, Norn), but she could be so much more with the right focus on hammering in those totally unloseable situations via Survival and Living Plane.
Random musings:
I've upped the land count +1 to account for the fact that Gaea's Cradle is probably going to be more of a toolbox card than a true land, and this is a significant mentality shift. Likewise, Serra's Sanctum has been added, but may prove too minor to matter.
Not sure about Wrath of God yet. I may want Martial Coup instead (or as well). There's a minor token theme going on here with the Planeswalkers.
With just 4 basic lands now, I probably don't want Land Tax anymore. I think Selesnya signet requires serious consideration here, or some other Rampant Growth effect I've overlooked. Thoughts?
With more 5 drops (namely, the PWers), I've finally given myself something to do the following turn after Sisay is countered/killed. Long overdue that I add more 5-drops, I think.
The mentality of this deck borrows heavily from Kwiznek's Humility-themed deck, so there are more token creators and man lands now--and a new Sword. Should be a better approach to fighting most decks, honestly.
I've been back and forth on Ruins and Havenwood, but maybe they want to be in this ramp version more than the other version. Need to re-test.
I just wanted to say that this approach is definitely legit, and has the potential to be a better Rhys mid-range deck, I think. It's just not the direction I want to take the deck in (Merdock, where you at??).
All thoughts are welcome on this new build! Feel free to take it online yourself and report back what you've found.
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- I'm not entirely convinced that you need Elspeth Tirel. She costs a lot and fills a relatively small niche for the deck. Maybe you could fit Acidic Slime back in if you need more 5-drops. It's versatile and can hinder aggro and voltron strategies quite effectively.
- I'm not sold on Exploration for this deck. Other than being decent on turn 1, this deck doesn't run enough pure card advantage to truly take advantage of it. I might try to fit in Utopia Sprawl in its place.
- Land Tax, as you said, is very iffy in a deck that runs 4 basics. As far as I know, you have all the Rampant Growths covered so getting that Selesnya Signet in there in its place seems like a good idea.
- I'm not sure how I feel about Entreat the Angels as it costs so much and I've never played it, but I'd like to hear how well it plays for you.
These are just a few of my initial thoughts, but I think you've got something here. I'd love to hear how it plays against other decks in the meta but beating Iname is certainly a good sign!
+ Edge of Autumn
- Land Tax
+ Utopia Sprawl
- Exploration
+ Basic Plains
- Reflecting Pool
+ Basic Forest
- City of Brass
Now that my mana dork count is ZERO, I don't want to get blown out by a single Blood Moon effect, or be marginally more susceptible to wasteland, or actually whiffing on my +1 basic land cards. I figured a few more basics were in order. I understand that not everyone will agree.
So why drop Land Tax now that I'm running more basics? It's really circumstantial and far less likely to ever trigger with the complete shift in +1 land effects. Dropping it turn 1 on the draw would be the only time it would ever work now.
I missed Sprawl, but it's definitely been dangerous for when I had no choice but to drop it on a dual land. I think this play, statistically speaking, makes my opponent's chances of drawing Wasteland 150% (50% buffer for already having it in hand, of course).
I haven't played Edge of Autumn in ages (and never in EDH), but it seems like it would suit the deck.
...not that I have any damn time to play the deck. =/
Full-time job where I'm expected to stay past 5 most days started a month ago, and I've got classes three nights a week for grad school, and then the fiance during most of my "downtime." Anyone is encouraged to take over the testing of this deck while I bang my head against the wall of being a twentysomething who's never had an iota of responsbility before now and is resentful that he can't spend more time on his hobbies.
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I'm glad I can count on you! =)
This was definitely a concern of mine after dropping both Aura Shards (not enough creatures, I think?) and Krosan Grip, and I'm not surprised to hear that this is an issue. Cards like Stranglehold and Humility and Oath should be killed on sight, but I agree with you that the deck doesn't have enough yet to deal with this issue.
Everyone: Should I drop Elspeth Tirel for Acidic Slime? I'm thinking yes.
The more I think about it, the more I think we want all that ramp to go into Tooth and Nail instead of Entreat the Angels. Does that sound crazy to anyone else? If we're going to ramp, we want to have some semblance of ramping into cards that, in any non-commander format, we'd run multiple copies of. Sisay's all about the tutoring, so I don't see why I shouldn't hammer that theme home all the way. I just forgot about Tooth and Nail until seeing zarkku's list.
Yes, I can just see some of the French players rolling their eyes at me now, but it might actually work in this deck. =P
Not entirely sure, here. I'm banking on being able to use the mana way more effectively than my opponent, which is something that should be true in probably most matchups. You're right that he could be a disaster in ramp mirrors that are trying to blow up all my lands, though. At worst, I don't have to play him, but at best he's a great 1 mana rattlesnake that brings me closer to playing Norn. Definitely needs more testing though, as he only factored into one of my 3 games (positively, to be sure).
Haha, so it was Evergreen who suggested this, as Army of the Damned has been such a crazy good powerhouse and alt-win for him. But the difference between Sisay and Iname is about 3 cards... three cards that all say "tutor ANY other card you want" on them. Without being able to reliably shift into "alt-win" mode, Entreat is probably just not worth running. That's my hunch, anyway. I'm sure it would be great nearly every draw, but it certainly is a random non-fit in this deck.
Congrats on first place! You can't really argue with success. =P
Mistveil is frustrating in French (as a CITP land that can't attack and only produces one color), and GY theft isn't really a thing to worry about. I used to run it waaay back when with Mindslaver combo, but it required far too many things to be going my way and was cut as being, more often than not, a worse Plains.
I'd definitely still be playing Loam if I were playing the default BL, as many player take full advantage of Strip Mine being legal.
Prime Time and Avenger are great cards and are responsible for nearly 100% of my wins with Azusa. They're not my favorites in Sisay only because we've got other bombs competing for the spot in the "curve" (as if I think about such things when deckbuilding!), so I've never been able to justify them well enough. Depends on what you can get away with in the meta, speed-wise, too. It pleases me to know that they're working out well for you.
I'm a big Crop Rotation fan, but removed it around the time that Edric was all the rage and it was totally devastating for me to have the spell countered. But with all my + land effects and Edric being less prevalent (and perhaps more selective with counterspells), it may actually be better than Sylvan Scrying. I'll consider putting it back in. Thanks for the reminder.
Abundance is another of those Azusa cards I like that's just crazy enough to work in Sisay. If Living Plane combo proves to be too unreliable/slow for me, the new direction of the deck would actually benefit from making sure it got to its bombs (or lands) when needed. Consider that added to my "maybe" list.
I've never actually played Congration at Dawn. Do you usually find yourself fetching the same couple of creatures, or does it just totally depend? I feel like I play too many fetches and other shuffle effects to get the full benefits for tutoring 3 creatures.
Nice deck! Good Legendary picks all and all. =)
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I was also reconsidering some other lands I've played before, like Crystal Vein, Deserted Temple, Mouth of Ronom, and Hall of the Bandit Lord. I should probably give Hall some serious reconsideration, as it may serve as a better sort of Tomb for this deck, and might be a better fit for my more all-in plan. Not sure yet.
What will you be playing instead of Ancient Tomb?
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On the other hand, I sort of like Deserted Temple even though it doesn't accelerate you. The best you seem to be able to do with it is untap Cradle/Sanctum.
I'm going to have to say that you should test Hall again. Who knows, it could be blowout.
I noticed you don't play Kor Haven any more and I'm assuming it's because you don't play much against voltron or that you don't have trouble with them? I know that this deck has some trouble against Wanderer and Griselbrand and it also stops Doran, Rafiq, and Ruhan. It can also be tutored. Kinda confused here.
Kor came out, came back in, and came out again shortly after the Emrakul unbanning. Many decks on Cockatrice started to become really keen on ramping into/cheating out amazing creatures whose true power lie in either some static ability or their attack ability (especially Prime Time). On top of that, it couldn't target either Geist or Animar, two of the best generals on 'trice, and the mana cost on the land was always an awkward deliberation, as this deck doesn't really want to play during your opponent's turns and you almost always wanted to use the mana for something else. For Wanderer and Griselbrand, I'm more concerned with them winning the game immediately due to their abilities than I am about them attacking (which, to be sure, also sucks for me), and I feel like I already have a pretty even-to-favorable matchup against aggro/mid-range decks like Doran and Rafiq. Ruhan will probably just blow up my lands, like a jerk.
Often, playing the "delay my inevitable death" game results in exactly that. I've not had good results playing that sort of strategy, which is why I ultimately went away from the Peacekeeper/total control route, as much as I really really wanted that to work.
HOWEVER, an even larger reason than all of that for not playing it is because I was simply really short on spots for colorless lands, given the om-nom color hungry nature of this deck. With Ancient Tomb banned, this means that any (previously played) colorless land is worth (re)reconsideration. That includes Kor Haven, which certainly has its uses in a Toolbox, though (I'd argue) not enough uses against the best decks and is more often than not a colorless land with an ability that isn't good enough.
For pretty much all of those problematic decks, I think I'm better off keeping my opponent from getting to the right casting mana for these generals, as my life becomes very difficult unless I've already resolved some very specific hate cards or gotten into my combo first, which is why I lean towards Dust Bowl.
On the other hand...
Maybe I should ask myself, primarily, what was Tomb's purpose and does the deck need a similar sort of land? Very often it was used to get action out of Jitte sooner than I should have, but otherwise it was almost always used as a Sisay accelerant or a Norn accelerant. That's not something that can be replaced easily--if indeed I'm looking for a replacement--and for that I should probably be looking at either Crystal Vein or, I suppose, the more narrow and half-the-times frustrating and self-destructive Hall of the Bandit Lords. Hmm.
Not an easy choice!
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I don't often like the sac give me two mana lands as it will push you further back if Sisay happens to get killed again. Then again, it can give you that final push to put her out there for the win.
Yep. going to have to think on this one...
Is Teeg worth running still? You current list has it so that Teeg stops eight of your cards, as opposed to just two in your older version.
Also, I gotta say that I don't like the way the list is headed (no offense). GW plays better with creatures, and the recent Rhys deck is testament to that. But if you have been beating Iname recently, then I can't argue with results...
Quoted for truth from the new banlist thread.
The new direction of the deck was in response to aggro-ish creature-based decks with wimpy (but powerful) generals getting very hated out on Cockatrice. Cataclysms and sweepers were encountered almost never (1 in 20 random decks?) before Edric warped the scene (realistically, closer to 1 in 5 random decks had become "Edric-ready" in my experience, and that ratio increased when you just factored in the "best" players), and you could generally brute-force Sisay through a few kill spells, but "extinction builds" became so fine-tuned to obliterate Edric (while other decks started slotting out creatures for more mass removal) that running a bunch of wimpy g/w utility creatures and hate bears meant terrible matchups against what was becoming the ONLY archetype worth playing in an Edric world--the kind that incidentally ate Sisay and her ilk alive. It was bad, bad times for Sisay.
With Edric being banned, I have this inclination to want to roll the deck back two phases to the elf-ball/maverick version. That version was simple. My ever-hopeful gut says that post Edric, decks will re-tune to have less creature/weenie kill, and the Old Sisay can re-emerge among the top tier decks.
Well, my gut is stupid.
The truth is, those decks and the majority of those changes are here to stay. Which is to say that many of the already great decks only had to make maybe 2-5 card allowances to consider defeating Edric. Some newer, ramp-centric decks came about because they were more finely tuned over time, or the general just recently became available. Those new and awesome decks and those already top-tier decks will continue as they are with maybe only a few changes post-Edric. Which is to say: those sorts of decks that are especially bad for us will still have enough sweepers and spot removal to completely set us back and leave us empty-handed and, ergo, result in way more losses.
Maybe there will be a day for another happy medium with protection effects and mid-range awesomeness, Maverick-style, but I think those days are long over.
I could be entirely wrong. My new deck is largely untested, so only much time will tell. Abnormality has gotten ahold of my list (yay), and I did watch him play a few matches that were admittedly really awkward and inconsistent with there being no ramp at all (boo), even though he did win the set (yay?). If I can stay atop my classwork, maybe I'll get some matches in this weekend.
To answer your questions:
Even before adding all of the sorceries, Thalia was a double-edged sword for me. She's a stronger fit in Merdock's version, I'd say.
To seemingly contradict myself, Teeg still has a stronger purpose as something that can definitively hinder Wanderer's true power (and stop sweepers if that's the only thing that can kill my protected Norn or Sigarda), and has proven useful in plenty of other matchups. In the good-ole gold-fishy days, I used to always get Teeg into play and based my deck around him, but more than ever these days he's more of a last-ditch effort to winning in a toolbox that is sometimes in reach, but usually not. Delay tactics, Thalia-style, just don't seem to get me anywhere relative to "nope"-style cards.
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I'm thinking I could add a general cost analysis of the cards (I could at least keep my deck up-to-date on a site that does this automatically), and offer cheaper alternatives to make a sort-of budget-friendly option.
Is there anything that the rest of you would like to see in the opening posts?
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A tribute to Geist's awesome.
Have you considered a mostly stax variant of sisay, or one full of answers, with sisay only being cast when you've got relative control of the board?
EDH:
RNorin the WaryR <-Link! (Primer - Mono Red Control)
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG <- Link! (Mini-Primer - Dredge)
Duel Commander:
WUGeist of Saint TraftUW <- Link! (Aggro-Control)
BGSkullbriar, the Walking GraveGB <- Link! (Aggro)
BUGDamia, Sage of StoneGUB <- Link! (Extinction Control)
Church of the Wary
Bottom line: I've tried the hell out of a stax/control/tax variant Sisay list, seems sub-optimal to me. Inconsistent, too costly, not enough redundancy in the effects, way too many factors to reliably break the symmetry.
And you make a good point that I should include a deck history of all the different types of Sisays I've gone through in the OP.
Made the following changes:
- Veteran Explorer
+ Grim Monolith
- Wrath of God
+ Congregation at Dawn
- Serra's Sanctum
+ Hall of the Bandit Lord
Pretty self-evident and/or I'm not retyping everything goddammit.
Evergreen and I played 4 matches last night, went 2-2 and I think won 4 each. Here's how I won:
Iona twice
Norn/Teeg/Hollow once
Linvala/Living Plane once
In brief, I made some play mistakes a few games that lost me the game right then and there (may have lost later too, who knows), but overall I finally feel like I can contend with Iname and can at least go as fast as him. More testing required, but I think these are the three ways I want to win most and should play cards that revolve around these three win cons.
I'm gonna go through all my posts in this thread and determine what my changes have been by date for the change log, since I'm pretty sure I've posted about every single one of them.
9/23/12 EDIT: Massively overhauled the OP, using Leroy's primer as an example (beautiful). There's much more work to be done on the guts, but everything's transferred into the new style.
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Just got back from a 38 man french 1 on 1 commander here at manila,
Went 4-0-1 with Sisay, using almost the same list as I had before - Thrun + Iona, some other minor changes here and there. I lost miserably to Zur in the top 8, 1st round I made a terrible mistake naming blue with my Iona, for fear of clone effects and such, only for her to get stped, second match, I was severely flooded, with only 2 removals and drew land after land then Life from the Loam then more lands, I drew Nevermore after he played Zur which was such a bummer. I would say that I should have mulligan-ed more aggressively for both matches.
Most of the matches I won behind survival, into Iona/Norn, I usually get Iona vs blue, because the bounce and clone effects are such a pain in the @!?, and so far it has proven to be effective, except for Zur. I think it would be great if we can we come up with a list of what would be the correct color to name with Iona based on their general or if Iona/Norn would be the correct legend to cheat into play, since this is one of our most common plays/win conditions.
I'm now a believer of Sun Titan, he won me a match after my Jhoira opponent took 3 consecutive turns and dropped a Ulamog! He was able to swing twice but I had a full board, I kinda knew the eldrazi was coming, I was a little prepared. I was able to cast lignify which was countered, then I attacked with the Titan and turned his 10/10 to a 0/4 dork. He scooped after.
Dust bowl is awesome btw, I locked out my Kalia opponent by shooting of his lands, I had bullets since he was on the draw and I resolved a land tax *evil*
I might try this new direction of yours, by adding more land search and possibly a fast bond/exploration, just to minimize the effects of board sweepers. I almost cried when my opponent killed my Joraga, Dryad Arbor, Bird and Elf, leaving me unable to recover.
Sun Titan never ceases to amaze me (or to be a very common tutor target that turns games around in my favor). I've very often recurred Lignify ftw. Glad to see it's producing results for you, too.
I've had an impossibly difficult time myself naming colors with Iona against W/U/B. On the one hand, you want to stop their clones and counterspells. On the other hand, you want to prevent them from permanently exiling your Iona. On the third hand, Black kills everything and can tutor out an answer.
...
Well, when I put it like that, I think Black is usually the best choice, even if it's not always the correct choice. It just has way more potential to get your opponent out of a bind with tutors than any other color. It's definitely not a clear choice and more like a 34/33/33 for whether you call B, W, or U, and your choice may change depending on what spells you've already seen cast (ie, how likely am I to see another clone effect or exile or kill spell?).
I can work on putting these considerations in the matchup analysis. It's a much easier decision against most other decks, but there are enough weird ones to warrant a guide.
Some changes:
- Talisman of Unity
+ Fierce Empath
- Dust Bowl
+ Qasali Pridemage
- Acidic Slime
+ Primeval Titan
I don't think I play enough lands (or +lands) to get the most out of Dust Bowl. I seem to almost always have something better to do with the mana anyway, like casting Sisay or something she tutored. Going from 38 to 37 lands should be fine, given all the ramp and land tutors. I could be wrong, but 37 was the optimal number "before."
Talisman, imo, is a worse Nature's Lore. I'd much rather make my subsequent draws (slightly) better than.. not. I've been having a ton of games where I just keep drawing land after land after land. Enough is enough! To that end, Fierce Empath is back, and he can help me ensure that I get a bomb that game, and that bomb can now once again be Prime Time, who makes sure I don't stall out at 6 lands and just keep drawing more lands and playing the topdeck race with my opponent. So far, he's testing well. So far, everything's testing well.
Pridemage is faster than Acidic Slime. Using GSZ to get out of a bind (UGH Pithing Needle), and his speed can mean earlier equips. It's all good. He may yet be replaced with Seal of Primordium, though. Still tutorable.
As for previous recent changes: Congregation at Dawn has shown up once so far, but it did wonders. No testing of Monolith yet. Hall of the Bandit Lord gave me crazy awesome things in the two games that I either had it in my opener or tutored for it.
Deck is looking awesome. Deck still has not played Griselbrand or Maelstrom Wanderer, though...
Note: I'm keeping track of my wins/losses now and the win %. I'll be putting that data into the OP after more matches have been played, but so far I'm positive vs. Iname and Momir Elfball. ;P
EDIT: I've been looking at Last Breath with a bit more scrutiny. I'm fairly certain it was added as another means to fight Edric. It's certainly had its uses against other decks, though. However, with the meta shifting as it is towards big fatties and Oath, maybe I want a (slightly) more versatile option. I'll be giving Selesnya Charm a try. It can pump Sisay out of burn range, act as removal with the pump, exile Titans, maybe allow Sword of Fire and Ice to connect, and give me a creature if I need something to equip. Ought to be good. I would have preferred a card that tutored a land, exiled any creature, and disenchanted, but what can you do. ;P
EDIT 2: Okay, yes, Selesnya Charm is in. But out comes Gideon Jura in its place. If I were going some kind of Wrath heavy / Humility route, he would make sense, but with my version of the deck.. I've never once even thought about his existence in the deck (nor has he factored into any victories and wouldn't have turned any game around). He's just pretty random. So Gideon's coming out in place of Charm.
As for Last Breath: It's good enough, I think. Exiling Stoneforge Mystic, Dark Confidant, Priest of Titania, and on and on, is still a really good idea and helps hinder my opponent enough to allow me a mid-game (usually, you just need to get rid of ONE thing that can give your opponent a crazy advantage, buying you enough time to lock out all of their small creatures with Norn a few turns down the road). It definitely has its uses, and cheap exiling effects will perhaps always be coveted.
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Over the last week or so, I've made the following changes to the opening post:
Thanks to Leroy for the inspiration on most of these! And thanks to all of you for keeping the Selesnya dream alive!
If you missed my latest changes, I've edited them into the last post (re: Selesnya Charm).
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