@Zinda it's not your fault, I blame Grey, the guy has been wrong about everything this game. It's incredible how he can't see at least see AE and Fox are scum, it's so painfully obvious from here.
Anyway I still don't believe it's Nis, not because of anything he has done or not, but because AE and Fox are much stronger scum reads (adn they are both gunning for him). Anyway, I will be checking this thread until the deadline to hammer him in case the deadline arrives because if there's anything worse than a mislynch is a no-lynch at this point. unvote, vote AE
Now we know there's no way of obtaining the vig tomorrow, the new plan is: don't give any coins for other players, flip a coin to decide if you buy protection tonight or not (this way scum will never know if they should spend adicional coins or not).
I will keep thinking about stuff.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I will be checking this thread until the deadline to hammer him in case the deadline arrives because if there's anything worse than a mislynch is a no-lynch at this point.
Sooooo you want to lynch a townie because you dislike no lynches? What kind of thinking is that? Simply horrible.
Based on the read through I was able to do (already posted). Nis D1 play was bad but it improved, it COULD be because be had coaching help over the night phase. I would also be happy with a lynch on DRey because some of pinkys play, interactions with Wheat and the smear tactics.
I wanted to do more analysis these last couple days but RL all that. I agree with Zindy, I hope this is the right choice.
Have we lost? Please spill the beans already if we have.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Night 1
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates Emo_Pinata – successful
Via The Beggars Sect, Iso offers 1 token to investigate pinkys_brain – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, Caex Kothar offers 1 token to investigate Iso – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, SharkFinnigan offers 2 tokens to investigate Emo_Pinata – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, Wheat_Grinder offers 2 tokens to investigate Arnnaria – successful
Day 2
Via The Courier Post, Iso gives 1 token to zindabad – failed
Via The Courier Post, Archmage Eternal gives 1 token to Wheat_Grinder – successful
Via The Courier Post, SharkFinnigan gives 1 token to Caex Kothar – successful
Via The Courier Post, Wheat_Grinder gives 1 token to greymon90210 – successful
Via The Courier Post, Nis gives 1 token to greymon90210 – successful
Via The Courier Post, Foxlet gives 1 token to Archmage Eternal – successful
Night 2
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates Caex Kothar – successful
Wheat_Grinder triggered The Holy Tabernacle
Via The Beggars Sect, Caex Kothar offers 3 tokens to investigate zindabad – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, greymon90210 offers 3 tokens to investigate Wheat_Grinder – successful
Via The Beggars Sect, SharkFinnigan offers 2 tokens to investigate Archmage Eternal – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, Nis offers 1 token to investigate Wheat_Grinder – failed
Day 3
Via The Courier Post, pinkys_brain gives 1 token to SharkFinnigan – successful
Via The Courier Post, Archmage Eternal gives 1 token to zindabad – successful
Via The Courier Post, Foxlet gives 1 token to greymon90210 – successful
Via The Courier Post, Nis gives 1 token to SharkFinnigan – successful
Night 3
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates SharkFinnigan – successful
Archmage_Eternal triggered The Holy Tabernacle
Via The Beggars Sect, SharkFinnigan offers 4 tokens to investigate Archmage_Eternal – failed
SharkFinnigan triggered The Dark Cult
Via The Beggars Sect, greymon90210 offers 1 token to investigate zindabad – failed
greymon90210 triggered The Dark Cult
Via The Beggars Sect, zindabad offers 4 tokens to investigate Archmage Eternal – successful
@Dagger: Was there ever an expectation that the town would get the vig shot? Five coins is quite a bit and really impossible to save up for as town.
Actually, the original number of tokens to obtain the vigshot was 6, but Arcadic managed to persuade me to reduce it to 5.
In all actuality though, does it matter if anyone gets the vigshot? Or even which team?
It seems as if there was a lot of emphasis and veneration on an ability that have minimal impact on the range in which the town or the mafia are able to win. Sure, it is an ability that kills a player, but it is not going to make the mafia win any faster if they obtain it, or make the town any stronger in their analytical ability.
In all actuality though, does it matter if anyone gets the vigshot? Or even which team?
I had a suspicion that it was merely a ruse for the mafia. The lure of being able to end the game preemptively is strong. Also the ability to totally wreck our N2 plan was a lingering concern of mine; I wasn't sure if getting the vig shot then was possible.
E_P getting NK'd turned out to be a big blow for the town. Those two coins could have really helped the town secure the investigations.
I had a suspicion that it was merely a ruse for the mafia. The lure of being able to end the game preemptively is strong. Also the ability to totally wreck our N2 plan was a lingering concern of mine; I wasn't sure if getting the vig shot then was possible.
E_P getting NK'd turned out to be a big blow for the town. Those two coins could have really helped the town secure the investigations.
Well, you know what they say about EP and AE being on opposing teams.
Actually, I wasn't aware there was such a thing, but apparently it was being hinted at in this game as to why AE killed EP?
I got Iso lynched and that makes me happy. I was hoping you'd all lynch Foxlet when I flipped (or else cop'd Foxlet so that I'd look townier) but all's well that ends well.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
Phone post so keeping it short. I thought long And hard about using dark cult, but it was one of those catch 22. I didn't think I'd be a NK target I also figured that all they needed to do was use tabernacle to override it as well. Basically, it would have been a pointless gesture. I'd still be dead
I did ask Dagger if you could stack protection, but you couldn't. So if say several people had purchased protection for grey would he had MORE protection. But yeah, didn't work that way it was going to be my sneaky plan on shark or grey
Alas. Congratulations to the mafia and DRey for defeating the town. The scum's choice of nightkills was superb.
Me? You seriously are blaming me? I joined the game on mylo, I've created like 5 solid cases against scumAE (and he ignored them all but the weakest of them), I've only voted AE, I've spend countless hours rereading the game in a rush because the mod created an unfair deadline, I've tried to avoid Nis mislynch, I've managed to fend of my own mislynch, I've spend my coin to protect myself and it's all my fault?
Baffling really.
---
@Greymon I told you. Sorry but you were wrong about everything. Actually that happens to all good players once and a while but as a alleged good player you should have realized at least that you may be wrong about things and trying to at least reconsider stuff.
@Fox you really gave a coin to AE as town? Wow.
@Dagger it didn't occur to you that keeping the deadline as planned was a disservice to the town since you took like a week to replace PB and I needed another week to reread the whole game? I felt that was unfair and that I could have managed to lynch AE if I had some more time.
@town why didn't all you guys use the dark cult to protect yourselves? I know my plan was "roll a die" to see if you should protect or not, but after thinking some more I realized we would lose if we couldn't protect ourselves this night and there are no bonus points in ending the game with coins so the correct play actually was to everyone to protect themselves and pray scum didn't have coins to override it.
@Shark why didn't you send a coin to Greymon as per the plan?
---
In my opinion PB was the MVP of this game, she played superbly the whole time, pegged both WG and Zinda and tried to defend Iso. Awesome showing.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Phone post so keeping it short. I thought long And hard about using dark cult, but it was one of those catch 22. I didn't think I'd be a NK target I also figured that all they needed to do was use tabernacle to override it as well. Basically, it would have been a pointless gesture. I'd still be dead
Actually when night started I thought similar about this, I was not going to use protection because it would just be a waste since I would not be NKed. After a while I realized this was 100% wrong because the only way we would have a shot at this game was to protect ourselves and pray scum don't have money to kill anyone. And it was not unlikely scum didn't have any coins since they have adquired both investigations, even if they have coins, it was our only shot anyway, so we all had to do it.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I'm not blaming you entirely. The scum played well and their nightkills were fantastic. But you were possibly the largest contributing factor to the town loss aside from the scum themselves.
Your posts bounced around like a freaking pogo stick from one suspect to another, you cleared a scum (one you actually pegged on your first read through but then did a total 180 later) for bussing one of his buddies and for defending town in lylo, and caused general chaos. Yes you built a case on AE, but it's not like he wasn't already suspected for his extreme lurking. Your case was only one of three or four built on him throughout the game.
Doing a few things right doesn't excuse doing a bunch of things badly any more than doing a bunch of things badly invalidates the things you did well. But it does mean your contribution to the scum win was higher than any other town.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@ DRey - I'm not setting myself up for an honesty BS tell but I don't recall lying in a game yet. I'm bad at it and my memory is sheet. The reasons I said (after N2 or whatever) was exactly how I was thinking, as I said...I do crazy **** as town I had just got out of Vamp with AE and he was town and also said not too much.
I also would have been more willing to listen to you (based on pinkys play) if it wasn't for all your really bad cases that you started making on me. It was really what tipped the scales between you two. Zindy when he replied...there was something about his replies that reminded me of Iso in Trisk where he was all smooth talker.
In my opinion PB was the MVP of this game, she played superbly the whole time, pegged both WG and Zinda and tried to defend Iso. Awesome showing.
/barn. PB was probably the MVP of the game despite being on the losing team: No one came close to her level of play. We were just lucky that no one listened to her.
/barn. PB was probably the MVP of the game despite being on the losing team: No one came close to her level of play. We were just lucky that no one listened to her.
/doublebarn
I have no doubt that if she hadn't replaced out the town would have won. She was zeroing in on zindabad just before she replaced, and AE probably would have been found pretty quickly after that.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
I was tunneling this game hard, I'll admit but my meta shows that I'm prone to overreactions, and when someone is telling me that I'm wrong about everything, and then looking as scummy as you were DRey, I tend to get upset about that. In my head I was positive that Nis was scum because as I was doing the PBPA all he had done in my opinion was defend Wheat.
I'll take town LVP though, as I pushed so hard for the Nis lynch. I had suspicions of AE, and its no offense to him, but he lurks sooo hard in every game I've ever seen him in that I tend to just forget about him. And Zindabad was flawless, I never once suspected him.
All in all it was a good game, it was a lot closer than I thought it'd be, and it was an excellent setup.
Your posts bounced around like a freaking pogo stick from one suspect to another, you cleared a scum (one you actually pegged on your first read through but then did a total 180 later) for bussing one of his buddies and for defending town in lylo, and caused general chaos. Yes you built a case on AE, but it's not like he wasn't already suspected for his extreme lurking. Your case was only one of three or four built on him throughout the game.
Doing a few things right doesn't excuse doing a bunch of things badly any more than doing a bunch of things badly invalidates the things you did well. But it does mean your contribution to the scum win was higher than any other town.
Of course I was jumping around, because I was reading the whole game while posting in a rush and had no previous idea of anything.
Not knowing anything about the game is a town tell not a scum one (because scum have the QT to read previosly while town has nothing to stand on). Flip flopping while you are playing since D1 is scummy but flip flopping while reading the game after joining in lylo in heavy pressure because there's a short deadline and game is dead is not scummy. If anything that showed I was caring about the game, and that's a null tell.
I was trying treatment of shock to revive town because it looked like everyone had stopped caring, it was just me, Nis and Fox playing at that point as I was also rushing through my reread. Worse still looked like everyone was waiting for me for some strange reason.
@ DRey - I'm not setting myself up for an honesty BS tell but I don't recall lying in a game yet. I'm bad at it and my memory is sheet. The reasons I said (after N2 or whatever) was exactly how I was thinking, as I said...I do crazy **** as town I had just got out of Vamp with AE and he was town and also said not too much.
I also would have been more willing to listen to you (based on pinkys play) if it wasn't for all your really bad cases that you started making on me. It was really what tipped the scales between you two. Zindy when he replied...there was something about his replies that reminded me of Iso in Trisk where he was all smooth talker.
Zinda is very good scum, I've told you in the thread, he's the kind of player you can never be sure of, no matter what he says, he's a really smooth talker and always say intelligent stuff as scum or town, in fact he always plays the same as scum or town so it's hard to peg him (at least I can't peg him).
So far the only "real" way to catch him is "he still alive on lylo therefore is scum" and "he has been wrong about everything, townZinda is right more often than not so he's scum" and both of those methods are sketchy.
Also AE lurks both as town or scum so it's a nulltell, but when he's town he play differently, he tries to do stuff, he doesn't jump opportunistically on wagons, he stick to his guns. In this game the way he jumped onto Iso and Albus were 100% scum.
The thing is, looks like no one was reading what I wrote, AE was so obviously scum it hurted. Lynching anyone but him was atrociously bad. Even if you suspected me, you should have seen AE was scum.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I have no doubt that if she hadn't replaced out the town would have won. She was zeroing in on zindabad just before she replaced, and AE probably would have been found pretty quickly after that.
Heh, while I have no doubts she's the better player than me, and that she has done a wonderful job this game, I think she replacing out was kind of boon to the town, not because of my play mind youe, but because at that point she had lost the fight with Zinda. No one was giving her any credit and the momentum was shifting against her imho (Zinda was clearly winning the argument and no one was paying much attention to her).
I know I wouldn't have done any better because I know my shortcomings as a player, I will never beat Zinda in a mafia discussing and I will probably end of lynched myself every time I try to fight him. That was also one of the reasons I let him go, even if he was mafia Grey had made very clear he was not an option and neither Fox or Nis had expressed much interest on him. Also when I discovered Fox gave money to AE and Shark had probably give money to Grey it was very likely Fox was lying so the only real option was AE and her. AE was scum in all scenarios.
I was tunneling this game hard, I'll admit but my meta shows that I'm prone to overreactions, and when someone is telling me that I'm wrong about everything, and then looking as scummy as you were DRey, I tend to get upset about that. In my head I was positive that Nis was scum because as I was doing the PBPA all he had done in my opinion was defend Wheat.
I'll take town LVP though, as I pushed so hard for the Nis lynch. I had suspicions of AE, and its no offense to him, but he lurks sooo hard in every game I've ever seen him in that I tend to just forget about him. And Zindabad was flawless, I never once suspected him.
All in all it was a good game, it was a lot closer than I thought it'd be, and it was an excellent setup.
As I told you before (but you probably didn't read), after a full reread I could have created a strong case on ALL players, everyone has done things indicative of scum in this game including you, that doesn't mean everyone was scum so my job was to separate the things that were indicative of scum from things that were conclusive of scum. For me both Fox and AE where far from the others of things that could not be explained as town actions at all.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@Shark why didn't you send a coin to Greymon as per the plan?
I knew I was the NK. I expected scum to try to kill me as I was the one to have any coins. I spent the coin I would have given to protect myself from NK.
BTW, All the coin analysis on me sucked. It was basically impossible for me NOT to give coin to Dark Cult and only 2 players lying. Pulling up now.
I started with 2 coins. I claimed that D2.
I got 2 coins from Guild of Coins, so that makes 4.
I sent 1 coin to Caex (claimed D3). So that's 3.
N3 I died with 4.
Given greymon only recieved 1 coin. Either Foxlet lied or I never sent anyone coins.
Greymon or Nis (cant remember) are clearing Fox. That means I never sent anyone coins.
Now 4 people claim to send me coins. From 3 that would mean I have 7. Obv. I didnt get 7. So now assume 2 scum lying. I got 5 coins. NOW, if people are smart enough to realize I was paranoid at the end of the day, then they'd realize I spent 1 coin protecting my ***. (Wish I spent 2 on that).
Now most of that is found in thread with some insider knowledge. But basically, people have to figure I spent coins for DarkCult. Otherwise, 3 people lied (If I gave a coin, 2 people on me + Fox lied; If I didnt, 3 people on me lied).
With pinky gone, Nis has to lead town. Fox needs to help.
I publically didnt state I was going to protect so I didnt tip mafia.
Reading rest of analysis later.
Scum MVP = zindabad.
WHY DIDNT TOWN LYNCH AE?!?!? ;_; (I had him pegg'd forever)
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
I knew I was the NK. I expected scum to try to kill me as I was the one to have any coins. I spent the coin I would have given to protect myself from NK.
In mafia you can never know when you will be the NK, it was likely you would be NKed, sure. It was 100% certain? Hell no. In fact the kills on this game were more unusual than most. EP and Fox being NKed were surprises (Fox not so much because of the protection stuff but you get it).
No matter what you think when a townie agreeds on following a plan he SHOULD follow the plan 100% of the times. More often than not trying to outsmart the scum always end up being wrong. Since you were confirmed town at that point I expected you to have followed the plan and that alone simply incriminated Fox for me.
BTW, All the coin analysis on me sucked. It was basically impossible for me NOT to give coin to Dark Cult and only 2 players lying. Pulling up now.
My analysis was only wrong because you had not followed the plan, if you had followed it would have worked. From my reread I had extracted all info I needed (starting with 2, giving 1 to Caex).
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
My analysis was only wrong because you had not followed the plan, if you had followed it would have worked. From my reread I had extracted all info I needed (starting with 2, giving 1 to Caex).
You analysis was wrong because you analyzed (guessed) his actions on three nights.
N2
N3
and
N4
There had been no Night 4, as it was still Day 4. I thought for sure someone would notice that and try to pin it on you as a scum misrep or something.
That was one of the things that annoyed the hell out of me this game. The lack of reading the thread and/or the rules. I don't particularly blame anyone for it, but the lack of reading comprehension of the game had me practically tearing out my hair in frustration.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
You analysis was wrong because you analyzed (guessed) his actions on three nights.
N2
N3
and
N4
There had been no Night 4, as it was still Day 4. I thought for sure someone would notice that and try to pin it on you as a scum misrep or something.
So just because I wrote N4 instead of N1 I'm scum trying to misrep players? You seriously need to reevaluate your beliefs on mafia dude, you remind me of Grey when he said Fox misreading what Dagger said was proof she was scum... when that was a total null tell. Misreading or writing things wrong are not scumtells (nor towntells).
That was one of the things that annoyed the hell out of me this game. The lack of reading the thread and/or the rules. I don't particularly blame anyone for it, but the lack of reading comprehension of the game had me practically tearing out my hair in frustration.
/barn
I found that intriguing too, while I reread I noticed everyone was interpreting game mechanics wrongly and asking Dagger for things that were explicit on the rules. The funniest part is that while I was thinking about this even I asked Dagger for something that was written in the rules.
@Dagger I forgot to thank you for the game, while playing for so little I greatly enjoyed participating in this (how I wished I was playing from the start). Everything was smooth and enjoyable. My only gripe is being forced to reread the game so fast because right after replacing you issued a short deadline, if I knew beforehand of this game mechanic I probably would not have joined as I didn't expect to spend so much time on mafia at the time.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
So just because I wrote N4 instead of N1 I'm scum trying to misrep players? You seriously need to reevaluate your beliefs on mafia dude, you remind me of Grey when he said Fox misreading what Dagger said was proof she was scum... when that was a total null tell. Misreading or writing things wrong are not scumtells (nor towntells).
Lolno. Here, I'll quote it for you and show you exactly what I mean:
Let's try to deduce Shark's coins once more with feeling.
Shark started with 2 coins.
He gave Caex 1 coin on N2 because he felt he was towniest. -1
He gave Greymon 1 coin N3 according to the plan. -1
He gave Greymon 1 coin N4 according to the plan. -1
He received 2 coins from the guild of coins. +2
TOTAL: 1
N2 was the first night where a plan was in place. Shark gave me 1 coin during D2.
N3 was the second night where a plan was in place. Shark gave greymon 1 coin during D3.
You were on D4 and Shark was dead. You totally invented actions for Shark on the nonexistant N4.
EDIT: I'd also like to thank Dagger for the game. As my second-ever game of mafia, it was just about perfectly set up for me to learn a lot of interesting things about the game.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
For the record, I don't have faith in the rest of the town to pull this off.
I totally said AE should be Copped and zindabad's reason for voting me was nonexistent. His entire case on p_b was fluff. Town MVP to pinky for sure, though, because she was gonna crack this game.
Sorry greymon, but I have to give town LVP to you for being confirmed town yet wasting the investigation on Wheat after he was confirmed scum after my town flip and for being dreadfully wrong about pinky. I feel that you completely derailed the town and that DRey was the metaphorical swing of the hammer that set the nail.
I guess scum MVP to zindabad for making large posts that said nothing and still managing to survive to endgame.
Scum LVP to Wheat for dying the fastest and coming forward with the investigation.
Let this be a lesson that just because you're confirmed town doesn't mean you're right.
Also, DRey, what the hell was with your catch-up post? You literally said, "zindabad and AE are the most likely to be scum. But they can't be scum together. Let's lynch Nis!" I understand that you had to do it all quickly, but still. Come on.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have to disagree with the calls of pinky for MVP. It isn't enough to be right. You also have to convince others that you're right, and pinky was never going to make that happen. By the end of D3 she was finding it difficult to keep a cool head and was getting more and more desperate. She played decently but it just wasn't on for her.
Bizarre choice not to self-protect by Fox on the last day. I intentionally misrepresented myself as having 1 coin in the hope that people would think I could activate the Holy Tabernacle and kill them even if they had the Dark Cult on, but still, I would've given it a go in her (or any townie's) position.
In my opinion PB was the MVP of this game, she played superbly the whole time, pegged both WG and Zinda and tried to defend Iso. Awesome showing.
Thanks for helping take over Drey. With my mother in law ending up in the hospital, the job searching and all the RL stuff going on in my life I just had no patience or time for this game.
After this game and a few games I played at MS this last month I just feel I need to take time off of mafia. I can't even begin to explain how bad logic, bad cases and just the horrible amount of bad calls people make that have been so grating to me that I can't even play very civil with stressed to this extreme.
The worst moments in this game is to be told I was scum after calling out WG but being told I didn't do it enough, or push hard enough so that is scummy, but seeing people coast throw most of the ****ing game and being called town because of one or two good post is just the worst logic in the world.
I know when I think like this and have no patience to put it nicely or I just want people to lynch me so they will listen to me on who is scum instead of calling them town, I know I need a break.
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I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I have no doubt that if she hadn't replaced out the town would have won. She was zeroing in on zindabad just before she replaced, and AE probably would have been found pretty quickly after that.
Nah, I could not get the one confirmed town person to listen to me and he suspected for completely **** reasons.
I was tunneling this game hard, I'll admit but my meta shows that I'm prone to overreactions, and when someone is telling me that I'm wrong about everything, and then looking as scummy as you were DRey, I tend to get upset about that. In my head I was positive that Nis was scum because as I was doing the PBPA all he had done in my opinion was defend Wheat.
I'll take town LVP though, as I pushed so hard for the Nis lynch. I had suspicions of AE, and its no offense to him, but he lurks sooo hard in every game I've ever seen him in that I tend to just forget about him. And Zindabad was flawless, I never once suspected him.
All in all it was a good game, it was a lot closer than I thought it'd be, and it was an excellent setup.
your reads and reasoning was horrible. You didn't once even consider the meta I put forth or the reason's I thought the case on Iso was total crap. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE. WTH IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT!
@Zindy: I just didn't have time to sit down even 20 minutes without an interruption at home. It was frustrating to try and even make a case when I get a 4 year old who comes every 5 minutes to come and see something, or ask me when I will be done, or even think about what I was trying to say or remember from this game. It was pretty much an impossible task to try to have it get done. What pissed me off is no one listen to me about doing the coin drop. Once AE chose not to do it, he should have been lynched. He never once objected to doing the coin change and never once expressed thoughts I was scum.
People not listening to giving coins to 2 people with trying to get either an investigation or the vig should have realized it helped the town to give equal coins to the 2 town players.
Not listening or wanting to help the town without a good reason should have been a huge scum clue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
I have no doubt that if she hadn't replaced out the town would have won. She was zeroing in on zindabad just before she replaced, and AE probably would have been found pretty quickly after that.
Nah, I could not get the one confirmed town person to listen to me and he suspected for completely **** reasons.
I was tunneling this game hard, I'll admit but my meta shows that I'm prone to overreactions, and when someone is telling me that I'm wrong about everything, and then looking as scummy as you were DRey, I tend to get upset about that. In my head I was positive that Nis was scum because as I was doing the PBPA all he had done in my opinion was defend Wheat.
I'll take town LVP though, as I pushed so hard for the Nis lynch. I had suspicions of AE, and its no offense to him, but he lurks sooo hard in every game I've ever seen him in that I tend to just forget about him. And Zindabad was flawless, I never once suspected him.
All in all it was a good game, it was a lot closer than I thought it'd be, and it was an excellent setup.
your reads and reasoning was horrible. You didn't once even consider the meta I put forth or the reason's I thought the case on Iso was total crap. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE. WTH IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT!
@Zindy: I just didn't have time to sit down even 20 minutes without an interruption at home. It was frustrating to try and even make a case when I get a 4 year old who comes every 5 minutes to come and see something, or ask me when I will be done, or even think about what I was trying to say or remember from this game. It was pretty much an impossible task to try to have it get done. What pissed me off is no one listen to me about doing the coin drop. Once AE chose not to do it, he should have been lynched. He never once objected to doing the coin change and never once expressed thoughts I was scum.
People not listening to giving coins to 2 people with trying to get either an investigation or the vig should have realized it helped the town to give equal coins to the 2 town players.
Not listening or wanting to help the town without a good reason should have been a huge scum clue.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I am female, hear me roar!
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My thanks to all the players and replacements who have played in this game. And for the patience for those perceived delays that cropped up from time to time.
@Dagger it didn't occur to you that keeping the deadline as planned was a disservice to the town since you took like a week to replace PB and I needed another week to reread the whole game? I felt that was unfair and that I could have managed to lynch AE if I had some more time.
My apologies on that, DRey, but the deadline was induced by a game ability and the mafia was relying on that ability to trigger to aid their cause. To be honest though, deadline is needed when a game starts to stall and this game did stall when multiple players were unwilling to commit in fear of making the incorrect call. What happens then were multiple days without any or minimal posts and players avoided making judgment calls, then when the deadline were imposed, repeatedly requested for it to be postponed. It's a self-perpetuating system. It doesn't help. A town will more often than not go WIFOM on certain issues until they turn 180 degree multiple times on things they were certain on in the first place. Often, the first impression a town has is the correct one, but they just self-logic themselves otherwise.
I'll take town LVP though, as I pushed so hard for the Nis lynch. I had suspicions of AE, and its no offense to him, but he lurks sooo hard in every game I've ever seen him in that I tend to just forget about him. And Zindabad was flawless, I never once suspected him.
Personally, I frown on LVP status as I believe it perpetuates the notion that all players can dump their losses onto a single player. Mafia is a team game and to get a lynch, a majority vote is needed. Losses should be shared and learned from, not redirected to a single person. If a single player is so vital as to cause a loss, then it's the fault of the rest for allowing it to happen.
But then again, you will find my view is that of the minority and many would forward the notion that one learns best when the fall is hardest.
@Dagger I forgot to thank you for the game, while playing for so little I greatly enjoyed participating in this (how I wished I was playing from the start). Everything was smooth and enjoyable. My only gripe is being forced to reread the game so fast because right after replacing you issued a short deadline, if I knew beforehand of this game mechanic I probably would not have joined as I didn't expect to spend so much time on mafia at the time.
My thanks for your efforts, DRey, and my apologies for making you endure it. Do know that I owe you a debt for replacing in at the last minute at so critical a time. For what it is worth, I think you did splendid in trying to navigate through the reads in this game in so short a time.
Also, DRey, what the hell was with your catch-up post? You literally said, "zindabad and AE are the most likely to be scum. But they can't be scum together. Let's lynch Nis!" I understand that you had to do it all quickly, but still. Come on.
Huh? Are we reading the same game? I never voted or pushed for a Nis lynch, and I pushed incredibly hard for obvscum AE's. I greatly suspected Zinda but he managed to crumble my confidence because it looked like he was slowing coming to my side/agreeing with me (that I'm town and AE is scum), he fooled me, but that's to be expect for players of his level.
I can't even begin to explain how bad logic, bad cases and just the horrible amount of bad calls people make that have been so grating to me that I can't even play very civil with stressed to this extreme.
This probably has direct influence from your real life my dear, because I'm certain you have experienced a lot of "bad logic, calls and bad cases" in your career, in fact from my POV this is not the exception but the rule.
When one let mafia enter his skin it's the time one must take a break to recharge batteries, because what you experienced is exactly what mafia is about and you know this. That being said if you select more the games you play you probably be more happy, in my opinion games with lots of tier-1 players are more enjoyable than games with newish players. From top of my head, CIM had a pretty awesome roster and from the looks of it, Zinda's next game will be full of wondrous players.
The worst moments in this game is to be told I was scum after calling out WG but being told I didn't do it enough, or push hard enough so that is scummy, but seeing people coast throw most of the ****ing game and being called town because of one or two good post is just the worst logic in the world.
I know when I think like this and have no patience to put it nicely or I just want people to lynch me so they will listen to me on who is scum instead of calling them town, I know I need a break.
I feel your pain PB, I've read the whole game and Zinda's reasoning against you were terrible, it was all crap and fluff, but you know what? He did exactly what he should do as scum! He won the argument not because his points were stronger (they were not, it was all crap and it was obvious) or because your points were bad (they were not, they were awesome), it was the form not the content that made you lose the argument, while Zinda was calm, collected and put lots of links and "proof" you snapped, screamed, got tired and shrunk. He got into your mind and destroyed your willpower and that's exactly what good scum does: to put town into despair.
Nah, I could not get the one confirmed town person to listen to me and he suspected for completely **** reasons.
your reads and reasoning was horrible. You didn't once even consider the meta I put forth or the reason's I thought the case on Iso was total crap. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE. WTH IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT!
Actually in retrospect there's one thing that lessens Greymon fault, you have not greatly expanded on why Iso was town for example, yes I know Iso's meta, yes you know Iso's meta, he plays incredible scummy as town, but Greymon? Greymon has never played with Iso before, the chances for him to buy your reason "iso is town because of meta" are the same chances of him buying Zinda's "PB just knew Iso was town because she's scum and she defended him weakly because she in fact secretly wanted him to die".
@Zindy: I just didn't have time to sit down even 20 minutes without an interruption at home. It was frustrating to try and even make a case when I get a 4 year old who comes every 5 minutes to come and see something, or ask me when I will be done, or even think about what I was trying to say or remember from this game. It was pretty much an impossible task to try to have it get done. What pissed me off is no one listen to me about doing the coin drop. Once AE chose not to do it, he should have been lynched. He never once objected to doing the coin change and never once expressed thoughts I was scum.
AE should be lynched for innumerable reasons, he was obvscum and he didn't even tried to deny it, it's incredible he was not lynched the last day despite my strongest efforts.
My apologies on that, DRey, but the deadline was induced by a game ability and the mafia was relying on that ability to trigger to aid their cause. To be honest though, deadline is needed when a game starts to stall and this game did stall when multiple players were unwilling to commit in fear of making the incorrect call. What happens then were multiple days without any or minimal posts and players avoided making judgment calls, then when the deadline were imposed, repeatedly requested for it to be postponed. It's a self-perpetuating system. It doesn't help. A town will more often than not go WIFOM on certain issues until they turn 180 degree multiple times on things they were certain on in the first place. Often, the first impression a town has is the correct one, but they just self-logic themselves otherwise.
I quite understand the reasoning for deadlines and stuff but that's not what I'm arguing about really(I think your solution for never ending days was quite elegant in fact). What I was arguing about is that the countdown should be stopped while you were searching for replacements and some more days could be awarded because a replacement in lylo has gigantic shoes to fill, reread a game from zero is really hard you know?;)
But that was just a minor gripe, I greatly enjoyed participating on this game.
Personally, I frown on LVP status as I believe it perpetuates the notion that all players can dump their losses onto a single player. Mafia is a team game and to get a lynch, a majority vote is needed. Losses should be shared and learned from, not redirected to a single person. If a single player is so vital as to cause a loss, then it's the fault of the rest for allowing it to happen.
But then again, you will find my view is that of the minority and many would forward the notion that one learns best when the fall is hardest.
After reflecting some more I agree with you, yes Greymon play was not stellar, but he has no previous experience with Zinda, PB, me and Iso. I'm pretty sure if I was playing my first game I would too believe PB, DRey and Iso are the scummiest of the bunch and Zinda is obvtown.
My thanks for your efforts, DRey, and my apologies for making you endure it. Do know that I owe you a debt for replacing in at the last minute at so critical a time. For what it is worth, I think you did splendid in trying to navigate through the reads in this game in so short a time.
Thanks, I'm quite proud of my play here too, I think I did a great job considering it all.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Anyway I still don't believe it's Nis, not because of anything he has done or not, but because AE and Fox are much stronger scum reads (adn they are both gunning for him). Anyway, I will be checking this thread until the deadline to hammer him in case the deadline arrives because if there's anything worse than a mislynch is a no-lynch at this point.
unvote, vote AE
Now we know there's no way of obtaining the vig tomorrow, the new plan is: don't give any coins for other players, flip a coin to decide if you buy protection tonight or not (this way scum will never know if they should spend adicional coins or not).
I will keep thinking about stuff.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Sooooo you want to lynch a townie because you dislike no lynches? What kind of thinking is that? Simply horrible.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Based on the read through I was able to do (already posted). Nis D1 play was bad but it improved, it COULD be because be had coaching help over the night phase. I would also be happy with a lynch on DRey because some of pinkys play, interactions with Wheat and the smear tactics.
I wanted to do more analysis these last couple days but RL all that. I agree with Zindy, I hope this is the right choice.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
If you concede now. No need to put it off, your getting lynched tomorrow.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I've got nothing, if that's what you're asking.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Nis (4) - Archmage Eternal, greymon90210, zindabad, Foxlet
Archmage Eternal (2) – Nis, DRey
It takes 4 to Lynch with 6 alive.
As of this post, Nis has been lynched.
~~~
Boom!
The hall shook.
Boom!
The ground trembled.
Boom!
The doors splintered.
Cries of victory thundered without.
Cries of despair echoed within.
The Red Lord sat rigid upon his silver throne.
Nowhere to retreat.
No way out.
Boom!
Splinters upon splinters.
Cracks upon cracks.
Spider-webbed across the double doors.
And with a final resounding scream, the great doors crashed inward.
Armies of blades and metals and steels.
Emblems of skulls, foxes, lizards and salamanders.
Heralds of defeat and doom.
Death and destruction.
A great House would fall today.
And the rigid was the Red Lord still.
Lord of House Nis (Town) was eliminated on Day 4.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins has increased by 1.
The tokens owned by the Guild of Coins is now 6.
~~~
It is now Night 4.
There is a deadline of 72 hours for night action submissions. Day 5 will begin after all the night actions have been processed.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
The King dead.
His bloodline scourged.
Twelve Great Houses, betrayed from within.
When the ashes settled, there was five.
And there was still hope.
But then the House of Foxes fell, and even that glimmer of hope was lost.
Outnumbered and outmaneuvered, possessing a majority no more, the other two surrendered.
Their crests broken, their families held hostage.
And the Kingdom was lost.
Intrigue was the name of the game.
In the end, the usurpers won the game.
But where the age of monarchy had ended, a new age had dawned.
And history is the making of the victors.
Lady of House Foxlet (Town) was eliminated on Night 4.
Congratulations to the victors, the Mafia (Wheat_Grinder, Archmage Eternal, zindabad) for winning Intrigue Mafia.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
@Dagger: Was there ever an expectation that the town would get the vig shot? Five coins is quite a bit and really impossible to save up for as town.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
Scry Rollover Popups for Google Chrome
The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Spectator Group
Starting tokens
Town
Albus – 1
greymon90210 – 0
Caex Kothar – 1
Emo_Pinata – 2
Iso – 1
MirrorEntity – 1
Nis – 1
pinkys_brain – 0
SharkFinnigan – 2
Mafia
Archmage Eternal – 1
Wheat_Grinder – 1
zindabad – 1
Day 1
Via The Courier Post, Archmage Eternal gives 1 token to Wheat_Grinder – successful
Night 1 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 0
greymon90210 – 0
Caex Kothar – 1
Emo_Pinata – 2
Iso – 1
MirrorEntity – 1
Nis – 1
pinkys_brain – 0
SharkFinnigan – 2
Wheat_Grinder – 2
zindabad – 1
Night 1
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates Emo_Pinata – successful
Via The Beggars Sect, Iso offers 1 token to investigate pinkys_brain – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, Caex Kothar offers 1 token to investigate Iso – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, SharkFinnigan offers 2 tokens to investigate Emo_Pinata – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, Wheat_Grinder offers 2 tokens to investigate Arnnaria – successful
Day 2 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 1
greymon90210 – 1
Caex Kothar – 2
Iso – 2
MirrorEntity – 2
Nis – 2
pinkys_brain – 1
SharkFinnigan – 3
Wheat_Grinder – 1
zindabad – 2
Day 2
Via The Courier Post, Iso gives 1 token to zindabad – failed
Via The Courier Post, Archmage Eternal gives 1 token to Wheat_Grinder – successful
Via The Courier Post, SharkFinnigan gives 1 token to Caex Kothar – successful
Via The Courier Post, Wheat_Grinder gives 1 token to greymon90210 – successful
Via The Courier Post, Nis gives 1 token to greymon90210 – successful
Via The Courier Post, Foxlet gives 1 token to Archmage Eternal – successful
Night 2 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 1
greymon90210 – 3
Caex Kothar – 3
Foxlet – 1
Nis – 1
pinkys_brain – 1
SharkFinnigan – 2
Wheat_Grinder – 1
zindabad – 2
Night 2
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates Caex Kothar – successful
Wheat_Grinder triggered The Holy Tabernacle
Via The Beggars Sect, Caex Kothar offers 3 tokens to investigate zindabad – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, greymon90210 offers 3 tokens to investigate Wheat_Grinder – successful
Via The Beggars Sect, SharkFinnigan offers 2 tokens to investigate Archmage Eternal – failed
Via The Beggars Sect, Nis offers 1 token to investigate Wheat_Grinder – failed
Day 3 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 2
greymon90210 – 1
Foxlet – 2
Nis – 2
pinkys_brain – 2
SharkFinnigan – 3
Wheat_Grinder – 1
zindabad – 3
Day 3
Via The Courier Post, pinkys_brain gives 1 token to SharkFinnigan – successful
Via The Courier Post, Archmage Eternal gives 1 token to zindabad – successful
Via The Courier Post, Foxlet gives 1 token to greymon90210 – successful
Via The Courier Post, Nis gives 1 token to SharkFinnigan – successful
Night 3 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 1
greymon90210 – 2
Foxlet – 1
Nis – 1
pinkys_brain – 1
SharkFinnigan – 5
zindabad – 4
Night 3
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates SharkFinnigan – successful
Archmage_Eternal triggered The Holy Tabernacle
Via The Beggars Sect, SharkFinnigan offers 4 tokens to investigate Archmage_Eternal – failed
SharkFinnigan triggered The Dark Cult
Via The Beggars Sect, greymon90210 offers 1 token to investigate zindabad – failed
greymon90210 triggered The Dark Cult
Via The Beggars Sect, zindabad offers 4 tokens to investigate Archmage Eternal – successful
Day 4 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 0
greymon90210 – 1
Foxlet – 1
Nis – 1
pinkys_brain – 1
zindabad – 0
Day 4
No action used
Night 4 tokens
Archmage Eternal – 0
greymon90210 – 1
Foxlet – 1
pinkys_brain – 1
zindabad – 0
Night 4
Via Mafiakill, the Mafia eliminates Foxlet – successful
DRey triggered The Dark Cult
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
Actually, the original number of tokens to obtain the vigshot was 6, but Arcadic managed to persuade me to reduce it to 5.
In all actuality though, does it matter if anyone gets the vigshot? Or even which team?
It seems as if there was a lot of emphasis and veneration on an ability that have minimal impact on the range in which the town or the mafia are able to win. Sure, it is an ability that kills a player, but it is not going to make the mafia win any faster if they obtain it, or make the town any stronger in their analytical ability.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I had a suspicion that it was merely a ruse for the mafia. The lure of being able to end the game preemptively is strong. Also the ability to totally wreck our N2 plan was a lingering concern of mine; I wasn't sure if getting the vig shot then was possible.
E_P getting NK'd turned out to be a big blow for the town. Those two coins could have really helped the town secure the investigations.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
Magic CompRules
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Well, you know what they say about EP and AE being on opposing teams.
Actually, I wasn't aware there was such a thing, but apparently it was being hinted at in this game as to why AE killed EP?
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
I got Iso lynched and that makes me happy. I was hoping you'd all lynch Foxlet when I flipped (or else cop'd Foxlet so that I'd look townier) but all's well that ends well.
Good game.
Alas. Congratulations to the mafia and DRey for defeating the town. The scum's choice of nightkills was superb.
In the spectator group we were hoping Foxlet would use the Cult to protect herself. I sort of had an inkling she wouldn't, but one can hope.
{Magic: The RPG}
I did ask Dagger if you could stack protection, but you couldn't. So if say several people had purchased protection for grey would he had MORE protection. But yeah, didn't work that way it was going to be my sneaky plan on shark or grey
I'll add more when I'm at my computer
Baffling really.
---
@Greymon I told you. Sorry but you were wrong about everything. Actually that happens to all good players once and a while but as a alleged good player you should have realized at least that you may be wrong about things and trying to at least reconsider stuff.
@Fox you really gave a coin to AE as town? Wow.
@Dagger it didn't occur to you that keeping the deadline as planned was a disservice to the town since you took like a week to replace PB and I needed another week to reread the whole game? I felt that was unfair and that I could have managed to lynch AE if I had some more time.
@town why didn't all you guys use the dark cult to protect yourselves? I know my plan was "roll a die" to see if you should protect or not, but after thinking some more I realized we would lose if we couldn't protect ourselves this night and there are no bonus points in ending the game with coins so the correct play actually was to everyone to protect themselves and pray scum didn't have coins to override it.
@Shark why didn't you send a coin to Greymon as per the plan?
---
In my opinion PB was the MVP of this game, she played superbly the whole time, pegged both WG and Zinda and tried to defend Iso. Awesome showing.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Your posts bounced around like a freaking pogo stick from one suspect to another, you cleared a scum (one you actually pegged on your first read through but then did a total 180 later) for bussing one of his buddies and for defending town in lylo, and caused general chaos. Yes you built a case on AE, but it's not like he wasn't already suspected for his extreme lurking. Your case was only one of three or four built on him throughout the game.
Doing a few things right doesn't excuse doing a bunch of things badly any more than doing a bunch of things badly invalidates the things you did well. But it does mean your contribution to the scum win was higher than any other town.
{Magic: The RPG}
I also would have been more willing to listen to you (based on pinkys play) if it wasn't for all your really bad cases that you started making on me. It was really what tipped the scales between you two. Zindy when he replied...there was something about his replies that reminded me of Iso in Trisk where he was all smooth talker.
Good job DRey, your just to overbearing thats all.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
/barn. PB was probably the MVP of the game despite being on the losing team: No one came close to her level of play. We were just lucky that no one listened to her.
/doublebarn
I have no doubt that if she hadn't replaced out the town would have won. She was zeroing in on zindabad just before she replaced, and AE probably would have been found pretty quickly after that.
{Magic: The RPG}
I was tunneling this game hard, I'll admit but my meta shows that I'm prone to overreactions, and when someone is telling me that I'm wrong about everything, and then looking as scummy as you were DRey, I tend to get upset about that. In my head I was positive that Nis was scum because as I was doing the PBPA all he had done in my opinion was defend Wheat.
I'll take town LVP though, as I pushed so hard for the Nis lynch. I had suspicions of AE, and its no offense to him, but he lurks sooo hard in every game I've ever seen him in that I tend to just forget about him. And Zindabad was flawless, I never once suspected him.
All in all it was a good game, it was a lot closer than I thought it'd be, and it was an excellent setup.
Not knowing anything about the game is a town tell not a scum one (because scum have the QT to read previosly while town has nothing to stand on). Flip flopping while you are playing since D1 is scummy but flip flopping while reading the game after joining in lylo in heavy pressure because there's a short deadline and game is dead is not scummy. If anything that showed I was caring about the game, and that's a null tell.
I was trying treatment of shock to revive town because it looked like everyone had stopped caring, it was just me, Nis and Fox playing at that point as I was also rushing through my reread. Worse still looked like everyone was waiting for me for some strange reason.
Zinda is very good scum, I've told you in the thread, he's the kind of player you can never be sure of, no matter what he says, he's a really smooth talker and always say intelligent stuff as scum or town, in fact he always plays the same as scum or town so it's hard to peg him (at least I can't peg him).
So far the only "real" way to catch him is "he still alive on lylo therefore is scum" and "he has been wrong about everything, townZinda is right more often than not so he's scum" and both of those methods are sketchy.
Also AE lurks both as town or scum so it's a nulltell, but when he's town he play differently, he tries to do stuff, he doesn't jump opportunistically on wagons, he stick to his guns. In this game the way he jumped onto Iso and Albus were 100% scum.
The thing is, looks like no one was reading what I wrote, AE was so obviously scum it hurted. Lynching anyone but him was atrociously bad. Even if you suspected me, you should have seen AE was scum.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I know I wouldn't have done any better because I know my shortcomings as a player, I will never beat Zinda in a mafia discussing and I will probably end of lynched myself every time I try to fight him. That was also one of the reasons I let him go, even if he was mafia Grey had made very clear he was not an option and neither Fox or Nis had expressed much interest on him. Also when I discovered Fox gave money to AE and Shark had probably give money to Grey it was very likely Fox was lying so the only real option was AE and her. AE was scum in all scenarios.
As I told you before (but you probably didn't read), after a full reread I could have created a strong case on ALL players, everyone has done things indicative of scum in this game including you, that doesn't mean everyone was scum so my job was to separate the things that were indicative of scum from things that were conclusive of scum. For me both Fox and AE where far from the others of things that could not be explained as town actions at all.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
I knew I was the NK. I expected scum to try to kill me as I was the one to have any coins. I spent the coin I would have given to protect myself from NK.
BTW, All the coin analysis on me sucked. It was basically impossible for me NOT to give coin to Dark Cult and only 2 players lying. Pulling up now.
I publically didnt state I was going to protect so I didnt tip mafia.
Reading rest of analysis later.
Scum MVP = zindabad.
WHY DIDNT TOWN LYNCH AE?!?!? ;_; (I had him pegg'd forever)
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
No matter what you think when a townie agreeds on following a plan he SHOULD follow the plan 100% of the times. More often than not trying to outsmart the scum always end up being wrong. Since you were confirmed town at that point I expected you to have followed the plan and that alone simply incriminated Fox for me.
My analysis was only wrong because you had not followed the plan, if you had followed it would have worked. From my reread I had extracted all info I needed (starting with 2, giving 1 to Caex).
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
You analysis was wrong because you analyzed (guessed) his actions on three nights.
N2
N3
and
N4
There had been no Night 4, as it was still Day 4. I thought for sure someone would notice that and try to pin it on you as a scum misrep or something.
That was one of the things that annoyed the hell out of me this game. The lack of reading the thread and/or the rules. I don't particularly blame anyone for it, but the lack of reading comprehension of the game had me practically tearing out my hair in frustration.
{Magic: The RPG}
/barn
I found that intriguing too, while I reread I noticed everyone was interpreting game mechanics wrongly and asking Dagger for things that were explicit on the rules. The funniest part is that while I was thinking about this even I asked Dagger for something that was written in the rules.
@Dagger I forgot to thank you for the game, while playing for so little I greatly enjoyed participating in this (how I wished I was playing from the start). Everything was smooth and enjoyable. My only gripe is being forced to reread the game so fast because right after replacing you issued a short deadline, if I knew beforehand of this game mechanic I probably would not have joined as I didn't expect to spend so much time on mafia at the time.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Lolno. Here, I'll quote it for you and show you exactly what I mean:
N2 was the first night where a plan was in place. Shark gave me 1 coin during D2.
N3 was the second night where a plan was in place. Shark gave greymon 1 coin during D3.
You were on D4 and Shark was dead. You totally invented actions for Shark on the nonexistant N4.
EDIT: I'd also like to thank Dagger for the game. As my second-ever game of mafia, it was just about perfectly set up for me to learn a lot of interesting things about the game.
{Magic: The RPG}
I totally said AE should be Copped and zindabad's reason for voting me was nonexistent. His entire case on p_b was fluff. Town MVP to pinky for sure, though, because she was gonna crack this game.
Sorry greymon, but I have to give town LVP to you for being confirmed town yet wasting the investigation on Wheat after he was confirmed scum after my town flip and for being dreadfully wrong about pinky. I feel that you completely derailed the town and that DRey was the metaphorical swing of the hammer that set the nail.
I guess scum MVP to zindabad for making large posts that said nothing and still managing to survive to endgame.
Scum LVP to Wheat for dying the fastest and coming forward with the investigation.
Let this be a lesson that just because you're confirmed town doesn't mean you're right.
Also, DRey, what the hell was with your catch-up post? You literally said, "zindabad and AE are the most likely to be scum. But they can't be scum together. Let's lynch Nis!" I understand that you had to do it all quickly, but still. Come on.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Thanks for the game, though, Dagger.
I'm disappointed in Foxlet for not protecting herself on the last Night.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I have to disagree with the calls of pinky for MVP. It isn't enough to be right. You also have to convince others that you're right, and pinky was never going to make that happen. By the end of D3 she was finding it difficult to keep a cool head and was getting more and more desperate. She played decently but it just wasn't on for her.
Bizarre choice not to self-protect by Fox on the last day. I intentionally misrepresented myself as having 1 coin in the hope that people would think I could activate the Holy Tabernacle and kill them even if they had the Dark Cult on, but still, I would've given it a go in her (or any townie's) position.
Cracking stuff, Dagger. Would play again.
"...a talisman against all evil, so long as you obey me."
Thanks for helping take over Drey. With my mother in law ending up in the hospital, the job searching and all the RL stuff going on in my life I just had no patience or time for this game.
After this game and a few games I played at MS this last month I just feel I need to take time off of mafia. I can't even begin to explain how bad logic, bad cases and just the horrible amount of bad calls people make that have been so grating to me that I can't even play very civil with stressed to this extreme.
The worst moments in this game is to be told I was scum after calling out WG but being told I didn't do it enough, or push hard enough so that is scummy, but seeing people coast throw most of the ****ing game and being called town because of one or two good post is just the worst logic in the world.
I know when I think like this and have no patience to put it nicely or I just want people to lynch me so they will listen to me on who is scum instead of calling them town, I know I need a break.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Nah, I could not get the one confirmed town person to listen to me and he suspected for completely **** reasons.
your reads and reasoning was horrible. You didn't once even consider the meta I put forth or the reason's I thought the case on Iso was total crap. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE. WTH IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT!
@Zindy: I just didn't have time to sit down even 20 minutes without an interruption at home. It was frustrating to try and even make a case when I get a 4 year old who comes every 5 minutes to come and see something, or ask me when I will be done, or even think about what I was trying to say or remember from this game. It was pretty much an impossible task to try to have it get done. What pissed me off is no one listen to me about doing the coin drop. Once AE chose not to do it, he should have been lynched. He never once objected to doing the coin change and never once expressed thoughts I was scum.
People not listening to giving coins to 2 people with trying to get either an investigation or the vig should have realized it helped the town to give equal coins to the 2 town players.
Not listening or wanting to help the town without a good reason should have been a huge scum clue.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
Nah, I could not get the one confirmed town person to listen to me and he suspected for completely **** reasons.
your reads and reasoning was horrible. You didn't once even consider the meta I put forth or the reason's I thought the case on Iso was total crap. I HAVE SEEN IT HAPPEN BEFORE. WTH IS HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT!
@Zindy: I just didn't have time to sit down even 20 minutes without an interruption at home. It was frustrating to try and even make a case when I get a 4 year old who comes every 5 minutes to come and see something, or ask me when I will be done, or even think about what I was trying to say or remember from this game. It was pretty much an impossible task to try to have it get done. What pissed me off is no one listen to me about doing the coin drop. Once AE chose not to do it, he should have been lynched. He never once objected to doing the coin change and never once expressed thoughts I was scum.
People not listening to giving coins to 2 people with trying to get either an investigation or the vig should have realized it helped the town to give equal coins to the 2 town players.
Not listening or wanting to help the town without a good reason should have been a huge scum clue.
mafia win/lose record
town (12) 6/6
mafia (2) 2/0
Cult (1) 1/0
3rd party (0) 0/0
mafia record
Also known at mafiascum as farside22
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
My apologies on that, DRey, but the deadline was induced by a game ability and the mafia was relying on that ability to trigger to aid their cause. To be honest though, deadline is needed when a game starts to stall and this game did stall when multiple players were unwilling to commit in fear of making the incorrect call. What happens then were multiple days without any or minimal posts and players avoided making judgment calls, then when the deadline were imposed, repeatedly requested for it to be postponed. It's a self-perpetuating system. It doesn't help. A town will more often than not go WIFOM on certain issues until they turn 180 degree multiple times on things they were certain on in the first place. Often, the first impression a town has is the correct one, but they just self-logic themselves otherwise.
Personally, I frown on LVP status as I believe it perpetuates the notion that all players can dump their losses onto a single player. Mafia is a team game and to get a lynch, a majority vote is needed. Losses should be shared and learned from, not redirected to a single person. If a single player is so vital as to cause a loss, then it's the fault of the rest for allowing it to happen.
But then again, you will find my view is that of the minority and many would forward the notion that one learns best when the fall is hardest.
My thanks for your efforts, DRey, and my apologies for making you endure it. Do know that I owe you a debt for replacing in at the last minute at so critical a time. For what it is worth, I think you did splendid in trying to navigate through the reads in this game in so short a time.
We'll make you an offer you can't refuse.
Hosting: Vista Mafia
Hosted: Intrigue Mafia (Mini), Seance #43 (Basic), Conflux Mafia (Normal), Goo Mafia (FTQ), Experiment #26 (Basic)
Ongoing/Completed - 0/41
Town/Mafia/SK/Survivor - 30/6/4/1
NKed/Lynched/Survived - 15/11/15
This probably has direct influence from your real life my dear, because I'm certain you have experienced a lot of "bad logic, calls and bad cases" in your career, in fact from my POV this is not the exception but the rule.
When one let mafia enter his skin it's the time one must take a break to recharge batteries, because what you experienced is exactly what mafia is about and you know this. That being said if you select more the games you play you probably be more happy, in my opinion games with lots of tier-1 players are more enjoyable than games with newish players. From top of my head, CIM had a pretty awesome roster and from the looks of it, Zinda's next game will be full of wondrous players.
I feel your pain PB, I've read the whole game and Zinda's reasoning against you were terrible, it was all crap and fluff, but you know what? He did exactly what he should do as scum! He won the argument not because his points were stronger (they were not, it was all crap and it was obvious) or because your points were bad (they were not, they were awesome), it was the form not the content that made you lose the argument, while Zinda was calm, collected and put lots of links and "proof" you snapped, screamed, got tired and shrunk. He got into your mind and destroyed your willpower and that's exactly what good scum does: to put town into despair.
Actually in retrospect there's one thing that lessens Greymon fault, you have not greatly expanded on why Iso was town for example, yes I know Iso's meta, yes you know Iso's meta, he plays incredible scummy as town, but Greymon? Greymon has never played with Iso before, the chances for him to buy your reason "iso is town because of meta" are the same chances of him buying Zinda's "PB just knew Iso was town because she's scum and she defended him weakly because she in fact secretly wanted him to die".
AE should be lynched for innumerable reasons, he was obvscum and he didn't even tried to deny it, it's incredible he was not lynched the last day despite my strongest efforts.
I quite understand the reasoning for deadlines and stuff but that's not what I'm arguing about really(I think your solution for never ending days was quite elegant in fact). What I was arguing about is that the countdown should be stopped while you were searching for replacements and some more days could be awarded because a replacement in lylo has gigantic shoes to fill, reread a game from zero is really hard you know?;)
But that was just a minor gripe, I greatly enjoyed participating on this game.
After reflecting some more I agree with you, yes Greymon play was not stellar, but he has no previous experience with Zinda, PB, me and Iso. I'm pretty sure if I was playing my first game I would too believe PB, DRey and Iso are the scummiest of the bunch and Zinda is obvtown.
Thanks, I'm quite proud of my play here too, I think I did a great job considering it all.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player