To be honest I've been enjoying M13 from a casual player's standpoint. Solid cards spread through most rarities. Several good uncommons, a few good commons, and at least a decent number of rares. The dual land cycle is good and gaining in value. A few really nice mythics with lots of value. Krenko and Talrand are hot legendary rares. Box value started off pretty meh, but hasn't gone down, and in fact may have gone up recently.
Jeff, it must be a Canada thing. The distributors here are trying to bring product in from Alberta and other provinces and apparently they can't get any. Reminds me of Zendikar, when anywhere except major US areas were screaming for product for about a year there.
Well I may have been wrong about Hellkite but I've certainly gotten my value from him. He has won me the last 3 FNMs. This guy is seriously not getting enough love. Nothing is better than dropping a hellkite off the top or phyrexian metamorphing one or poding into it and ending the game. Even better is restoration angeling him to double down on his ETB effect the following turn for another free swing. There are a surprising number of decks right now still using flying blockers and this guy trumps that strategy so hard.
Well, perhaps that's a lesson for everyone. Something can be undercosted and very playable and yet not do as well as expected in terms of price. This thread tracks prices and price trends, which may or may not follow along with a card's playability.
Anyhow, a quick update of the singles worth more than $5:
1) Sublime Archangel (19)
2) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (15)
3) Liliana of the Dark Realms (13)
4) Thundermaw Hellkite (12)
5) Thragtusk (9)
6) Jace, Memory Adept (7.5)
7) Vampire Nocturnus (7)
I've noticed a lot of my regulars are saving up for RTR; I'm thinking the $$ isn't being spent on M13, but might recover once the initial wave of demand is sated for RTR.
M10, M11, M12 .. they all have no value. All cards in these core sets are cheap. I doubt M13 would be different.
Retailers constantly offer huge discounts on those booster boxes and singles.
This is true and great and all, the problem is nobody wants to open packs.
Nobody will draft M13 when you can draft RtR or AvR.
Even when M13 was new people were in a holding pattern until RtR.
I believe that will keep some of the cards holding value, while obvious bulk will be obvious bulk.
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Thanks to Sioux for the Sig! ^v^The Hooded Pumpkin's Trading Patch^v^ Deck Tech:
When they release every year, cards are going to be worthless.
If a card is printed once, it rotates and the price plummets. If a card is reprinted, supply is too high and the price plummets.
If it was once every 2 years like in the day, then you could rest assured your cards would hold some value over time.
The other thought it to release a set every year but have the sets standard legal for 2 years.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
When they release every year, cards are going to be worthless.
If a card is printed once, it rotates and the price plummets. If a card is reprinted, supply is too high and the price plummets.
If it was once every 2 years like in the day, then you could rest assured your cards would hold some value over time.
The other thought it to release a set every year but have the sets standard legal for 2 years.
I really don't get what you are saying here. The reason for low prices is the quantity of packs opened and if it rortates. It you have a card in two conseccutive core sets versus a core that stayed around for 2 years there would be no difference. Having a set every year allows for greater tinkering of standard environments. They let the Titans go more than one year so it is not like they try and kill every valuable card in core. I would like them to switch out the duals or at least add the enemy innistrad duals to core.
Thragtusk is my my bet going forward. It is going to see a ton of play and threre are not enough people opening packs. Supply was bumped up by the event deck to some extent, but with Ravnica out no one is going to be opening M13. At least for AvR people will still be trying to get Bonfires and Caverns.
I really don't get what you are saying here. The reason for low prices is the quantity of packs opened and if it rortates. It you have a card in two conseccutive core sets versus a core that stayed around for 2 years there would be no difference. Having a set every year allows for greater tinkering of standard environments. They let the Titans go more than one year so it is not like they try and kill every valuable card in core. I would like them to switch out the duals or at least add the enemy innistrad duals to core.
So have a set every year, but have them last 2 years.
This will still do what you say, but a good card only has to be printed once. Demand will stay higher because people won't fear the good cards will be priceless in a year or less.
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Currently Playing: Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me! Legacy: RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R RGBelcherRG WSoldier StompyW BReanimatorB EDH: BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
Agreed with Dan to some extent. I haven't bought any core product since M2010. It's just not a winning investment. Specifically for 2 reasons.
1) 50% of the cards are reprints. So right off the bat half the packs you open are not going to have great value or excitement for you. Even getting something solid like a
dual you are going to say "goodie... sunpetal grove #9..." Recently they've done a better job about picking older cards to reprint but that only lessens the blow. What's worse...
often half the mythics (where you get the best value usually) are reprints. That really hurts box value unless they are of the caliber of primeval titan.
2) They are only standard legal for one year... so the top end cards are going to tank in a year. Either they rotate... or they get reprinted and double the amount. The
titans (some of the best creatures ever printed) are a prime example of this.
These two combined make the few standout mythics also feel like they have a lower ceiling. Maybe it's just me but I'm always like... ehh it will probably get reprinted next year so I'll wait.
I love the direction they took core sets but they need to go back to every other year. Otherwise there is no way it won't be a better investment to just buy singles (and if you're not going to use it immediately... buy singles one year after release). It will also help them lengthen the value curve on some staples. For example the M2010 duals would only have 2 printings instead of 4 at this point and be a lot more valuable.
I love the direction they took core sets but they need to go back to every other year. Otherwise there is no way it won't be a better investment to just buy singles (and if you're not going to use it immediately... buy singles one year after release). It will also help them lengthen the value curve on some staples. For example the M2010 duals would only have 2 printings instead of 4 at this point and be a lot more valuable.
I am not exactly disagreeing with you guys but it is not a matter of 2 printings instead of 4. They probably have had around 15 print runs. The issue is the set is core sets are printed, and printed based on demand for 2 years strait. Blocks will vary but I think Innistrad was "in print" for about 6 months. During that time distributors could get as much as they wanted and wizards kept printing it but they eventually stopped. Sure there may be MSRP stock available for the whole time it is legal in standard but the sheer quantities is much lower that the core set.
To better match the value of the Core set, and heck to get intro players involved, I think it should be 2.99 a pack. It is a better entry level point for new players who will in turn feed the chase cards up to those who are just opening expansion sets.
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Talrand, Akroma's Memorial, Cathedral of War, Primordial Hydra, Chandra, Krenko, Elderscale Wurm, Gilded Lotus, and Master of the Pearl Trident all fell from around the $4 mark to below $3, making them not worth opening in a booster pack, and therefore knocking the tally down from 19 cards to just 10.
The overall value of the set fell by almost 30% in one week, something I don't think I've ever seen before. Thundermaw Hellkite is down from $25 to $11 in just a few weeks. Clearly, Return to Ravnica is causing buyers to hold their money in anticipation. Will M13 recover later on, or is this drop permanent? The only card rising since the last update was Thragtusk, which has been bouncing back and forth between $9 and $10 since the set released.
The reason, I think, Thragtusk seems to stay up there in the 10$ range is because of the amount of speculation went into it pre-launch. With every hint of it might be included in any kind of tournament deck, it gets a little bit of hope of being the set's golden goose. Instead of being totally ignored, like Vexing Devil and Temporal Mastery, it comes up once in a while in a Standard deck, just enough to keep it's price from falling to 5$.
I think it's a simpler reason than that: Restoration Angel
Has that combo actually been in a Standard deck that got somewhere ? I only saw Restoration Angel pop up in Delver.
Has nothing to do with Restoration Angel though that is a cute gimmick.
Thragtusk is used in many if not most green aggro, red/green aggro and whatnot decks. With POD gone that is one use of him going away, but he will find a home in any form of populate decks if such a thing happens.
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I think populate is a limited thing, not sure I see Standard decks suddenly making way for populate combo. Also, you want a token in play to populate long before 6th turn. And lastly, there's only two monogreen populate cards, and they both suck.
1) Sublime Archangel (16) :rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:
2) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (13) :rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:
3) Liliana of the Dark Realms (11) :rate0:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:thumbsdown::2mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:
4) Thundermaw Hellkite (11) :rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:
5) Thragtusk (10) :thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:
6) Jace, Memory Adept (8) :thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:
7) Vampire Nocturnus (6) :thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::5mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::4mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:
8) Garruk, Primal Hunter (4.5) :rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::2mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:thumbsup::1mana:
9) Omniscience (4.5) :thumbsup::?mana:/:thumbsup::3mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:
10) Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (4) :rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsup::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:/:thumbsdown::1mana:/:rate0:/:rate0:
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Talrand, Akroma's Memorial, Cathedral of War, Primordial Hydra, Chandra, Krenko, Elderscale Wurm, Gilded Lotus, and Master of the Pearl Trident all fell from around the $4 mark to below $3, making them not worth opening in a booster pack, and therefore knocking the tally down from 19 cards to just 10.
The overall value of the set fell by almost 30% in one week, something I don't think I've ever seen before. Thundermaw Hellkite is down from $25 to $11 in just a few weeks. Clearly, Return to Ravnica is causing buyers to hold their money in anticipation. Will M13 recover later on, or is this drop permanent? The only card rising since the last update was Thragtusk, which has been bouncing back and forth between $9 and $10 since the set released.
The reason for the sudden drop in value? MTGO redemptions. Early redemption prices were crazy low. You could get sets from people to redeem for $90 or less initially, and that led to a metric ton of sets being redeemed. Thusly that sudden added supply, and everyone's focus changing to RTR and dealing with the rotation, inevitably led to the large reduction in value (higher supply, lower demand = ouch).
Core sets are especially susceptable to this, because reprints on mtgo tend to tank the cards prices on there, especially for rares, and can make for huge disparities in the value of a set on mtgo vs paper, and lead to massive redemptions, which is where we see a lot of the price declines after a while of a set being released.
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Primordial Hydra jumped back above the $3 mark, making it worth opening in a booster pack, and therefore pushing the tally up to 11 cards from 10.
Sublime remains on top, and gained in value this update. Thragtusk is giving it a run for its money though, holy crap! Clearly overvalued at $19, this boring and average-powered rare is apparently soaking up a lot of the value this set holds. Most of the tally is self-explanatory and/or boring so I'll spare my comments for now. Prices appear to have bottomed and are coming up slightly now.
Rancor, Jace's Phantasm, Vampire Nighthawk, and Knight of Glory are the uncommons worth mentioning lately. Commons aren't playable/valuable whatsoever.
Box value is currently stable, and up slightly from a month or two ago.
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Not much to comment on! Thragtusk has pushed past Sublime, which itself has been moving upwards as well. Thundermaw also gained value. Nocturnus cooled as Vampires have been falling out of favour somewhat lately.
GO GO Thragtusk! If anyone wants an entertaining read there's a thread on Thrag's price prediction in Market Street Cafe months ago when he was around 10 and virtually everyone saw him as a $5 dollar rare, Goes to show you how unpredictable the future meta can be.
Thragtusk isn't a 20+ dollar card. It's simply just a fatty with an upside. I'm not saying that it isn't pivotal to standard right now, it's just very very overpriced currently.
I wish my 4/4s with haste and first strike that acted as Goblin Warchiefs were better and didn't die to instants and overshadowed all other 4 drops in the format. And that they had evasion too, and some way to dodge wrath effects.
Jeff, it must be a Canada thing. The distributors here are trying to bring product in from Alberta and other provinces and apparently they can't get any. Reminds me of Zendikar, when anywhere except major US areas were screaming for product for about a year there.
.
Anyhow, a quick update of the singles worth more than $5:
1) Sublime Archangel (19)
2) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (15)
3) Liliana of the Dark Realms (13)
4) Thundermaw Hellkite (12)
5) Thragtusk (9)
6) Jace, Memory Adept (7.5)
7) Vampire Nocturnus (7)
Large drops in price lately.
.
Retailers constantly offer huge discounts on those booster boxes and singles.
This is true and great and all, the problem is nobody wants to open packs.
Nobody will draft M13 when you can draft RtR or AvR.
Even when M13 was new people were in a holding pattern until RtR.
I believe that will keep some of the cards holding value, while obvious bulk will be obvious bulk.
Selling domain "walkingtheplanes.com"- PM me with serious inquiries.
Thanks to Sioux for the Sig!
^v^ The Hooded Pumpkin's Trading Patch ^v^
Deck Tech:
UDagon's Fish N ChipsU
They should go back to once every 2 years.
When they release every year, cards are going to be worthless.
If a card is printed once, it rotates and the price plummets. If a card is reprinted, supply is too high and the price plummets.
If it was once every 2 years like in the day, then you could rest assured your cards would hold some value over time.
The other thought it to release a set every year but have the sets standard legal for 2 years.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
I really don't get what you are saying here. The reason for low prices is the quantity of packs opened and if it rortates. It you have a card in two conseccutive core sets versus a core that stayed around for 2 years there would be no difference. Having a set every year allows for greater tinkering of standard environments. They let the Titans go more than one year so it is not like they try and kill every valuable card in core. I would like them to switch out the duals or at least add the enemy innistrad duals to core.
So have a set every year, but have them last 2 years.
This will still do what you say, but a good card only has to be printed once. Demand will stay higher because people won't fear the good cards will be priceless in a year or less.
Currently Playing:
Standard:
Nothing, the format Bores me!
Legacy:
RBurn (Made on the Cheap!)R
RGBelcherRG
WSoldier StompyW
BReanimatorB
EDH:
BUGRWSliver OverlordWRGUB
BGeth, Lord of the VaultB
1) 50% of the cards are reprints. So right off the bat half the packs you open are not going to have great value or excitement for you. Even getting something solid like a
dual you are going to say "goodie... sunpetal grove #9..." Recently they've done a better job about picking older cards to reprint but that only lessens the blow. What's worse...
often half the mythics (where you get the best value usually) are reprints. That really hurts box value unless they are of the caliber of primeval titan.
2) They are only standard legal for one year... so the top end cards are going to tank in a year. Either they rotate... or they get reprinted and double the amount. The
titans (some of the best creatures ever printed) are a prime example of this.
These two combined make the few standout mythics also feel like they have a lower ceiling. Maybe it's just me but I'm always like... ehh it will probably get reprinted next year so I'll wait.
I love the direction they took core sets but they need to go back to every other year. Otherwise there is no way it won't be a better investment to just buy singles (and if you're not going to use it immediately... buy singles one year after release). It will also help them lengthen the value curve on some staples. For example the M2010 duals would only have 2 printings instead of 4 at this point and be a lot more valuable.
I am not exactly disagreeing with you guys but it is not a matter of 2 printings instead of 4. They probably have had around 15 print runs. The issue is the set is core sets are printed, and printed based on demand for 2 years strait. Blocks will vary but I think Innistrad was "in print" for about 6 months. During that time distributors could get as much as they wanted and wizards kept printing it but they eventually stopped. Sure there may be MSRP stock available for the whole time it is legal in standard but the sheer quantities is much lower that the core set.
To better match the value of the Core set, and heck to get intro players involved, I think it should be 2.99 a pack. It is a better entry level point for new players who will in turn feed the chase cards up to those who are just opening expansion sets.
Off the cliff we go:
1) Sublime Archangel (16) / / / / / / / / / /
2) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (13) / / / / / / / / / /
3) Liliana of the Dark Realms (11) / / / / / / / / / /
4) Thundermaw Hellkite (11) / / / / / / / / / /
5) Thragtusk (10) / / / / / / / / / /
6) Jace, Memory Adept (8) / / / / / / / / / /
7) Vampire Nocturnus (6) / / / / / / / / / /
8) Garruk, Primal Hunter (4.5) / / / / / / / / / /
9) Omniscience (4.5) / /
10) Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (4) / / / / / / / / / /
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Talrand, Akroma's Memorial, Cathedral of War, Primordial Hydra, Chandra, Krenko, Elderscale Wurm, Gilded Lotus, and Master of the Pearl Trident all fell from around the $4 mark to below $3, making them not worth opening in a booster pack, and therefore knocking the tally down from 19 cards to just 10.
The overall value of the set fell by almost 30% in one week, something I don't think I've ever seen before. Thundermaw Hellkite is down from $25 to $11 in just a few weeks. Clearly, Return to Ravnica is causing buyers to hold their money in anticipation. Will M13 recover later on, or is this drop permanent? The only card rising since the last update was Thragtusk, which has been bouncing back and forth between $9 and $10 since the set released.
.
I think it's a simpler reason than that: Restoration Angel
MtG Sales List
Has nothing to do with Restoration Angel though that is a cute gimmick.
Thragtusk is used in many if not most green aggro, red/green aggro and whatnot decks. With POD gone that is one use of him going away, but he will find a home in any form of populate decks if such a thing happens.
Selling domain "walkingtheplanes.com"- PM me with serious inquiries.
Thanks to Sioux for the Sig!
^v^ The Hooded Pumpkin's Trading Patch ^v^
Deck Tech:
UDagon's Fish N ChipsU
.
Don't pay too much attention to tiers but it was good in pod.
Thragtusk is a really strong card in a vacum so he should keep value. Lifegain is relevant against aggro and 2 bodies is relevant against control.
The reason for the sudden drop in value? MTGO redemptions. Early redemption prices were crazy low. You could get sets from people to redeem for $90 or less initially, and that led to a metric ton of sets being redeemed. Thusly that sudden added supply, and everyone's focus changing to RTR and dealing with the rotation, inevitably led to the large reduction in value (higher supply, lower demand = ouch).
Core sets are especially susceptable to this, because reprints on mtgo tend to tank the cards prices on there, especially for rares, and can make for huge disparities in the value of a set on mtgo vs paper, and lead to massive redemptions, which is where we see a lot of the price declines after a while of a set being released.
Stabilization has been achieved:
1) Sublime Archangel (21) / / / / / / / / / / /
2) Thragtusk (19) / / / / / / / / / / /
3) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (13) / / / / / / / / / / /
4) Thundermaw Hellkite (13) / / / / / / / / / / /
5) Liliana of the Dark Realms (10) / / / / / / / / / / /
6) Jace, Memory Adept (7) / / / / / / / / / / /
7) Garruk, Primal Hunter (5.5) / / / / / / / / / / /
8) Vampire Nocturnus (5.5) / / / / / / / / / / /
9) Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (4) / / / / / / / / / / /
10) Omniscience (4) / / /
11) Primordial Hydra (3.5)
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Primordial Hydra jumped back above the $3 mark, making it worth opening in a booster pack, and therefore pushing the tally up to 11 cards from 10.
Sublime remains on top, and gained in value this update. Thragtusk is giving it a run for its money though, holy crap! Clearly overvalued at $19, this boring and average-powered rare is apparently soaking up a lot of the value this set holds. Most of the tally is self-explanatory and/or boring so I'll spare my comments for now. Prices appear to have bottomed and are coming up slightly now.
Rancor, Jace's Phantasm, Vampire Nighthawk, and Knight of Glory are the uncommons worth mentioning lately. Commons aren't playable/valuable whatsoever.
Box value is currently stable, and up slightly from a month or two ago.
.
Thragtusk joins a VERY short list of rares that have topped a Running Tally:
1) Thragtusk (23) / / / / / / / / / / / /
2) Sublime Archangel (22) / / / / / / / / / / / /
3) Thundermaw Hellkite (16) / / / / / / / / / / / /
4) Ajani, Caller of the Pride (12) / / / / / / / / / / / /
5) Liliana of the Dark Realms (10) / / / / / / / / / / / /
6) Jace, Memory Adept (7) / / / / / / / / / / / /
7) Garruk, Primal Hunter (6) / / / / / / / / / / / /
8) Vampire Nocturnus (4.5) / / / / / / / / / / / /
9) Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker (4) / / / / / / / / / / / /
10) Omniscience (4) / / / /
11) Primordial Hydra (3.5) /
The card's most recent move is on right. means no movement. is a card that wasn't on the list last update. This is the update's hottest mover. (#) is price in CND incl. shipping here.
Not much to comment on! Thragtusk has pushed past Sublime, which itself has been moving upwards as well. Thundermaw also gained value. Nocturnus cooled as Vampires have been falling out of favour somewhat lately.
Box value is currently stable or rising.
.
My current decks!
http://tappedout.net/users/ThePhasewalker/