A number of our members have been sent a PM from multiple gimmicks, a PM that reads as follows:
This is a post that the staff just deleted in CI, trying to cover the truth. Please spread the word if you are inclined to.
Quote from Iggey »
I think it is time to provide some updates on the MTGS sale to Curse corporation, and to provide insight on the sordid, sordid, sordid tale which led to mass bannings in this site and the closure of an entire subforum.
Quote from straight from the mod lounge »
Okay guys. This has been in discussion with the Globals for about a week, and a small selection of you that would be directly affected have been contacted for opinions. This is now being opened up to the rest of you.
About a week ago, the admins got in touch with our Curse liaison. This person will be directly above the admins when the deal goes through, so we're already establishing a working relationship. Fabien, our liaison, took a tour of the website with Lord Voldemort while discussing things with us. He got access to many areas, including the Speakeasy and the Gutter, and we asked him his opinion.
The first is the biggest news. The Gutter cannot stay, even with the sanctions we've currently put in. Curse will not allow such a place on our website. The hazings, the slurs, basically many of the liberties the Gutter has, they have no place on the Curse network. Curse has told us that we have to get them in line in any way we so choose. Kill the sub or cauterize the bits that stick out of the box, they don't care. But here's the important thing: We may not say that Curse said so.
For those of you who missed the implications of that, the Staff must pull a 180 here. We must, saying it was our idea, tell the Gutter that the past four months were all for naught and that we still have to change things entirely.
I'll get to our options in a few moments.
Slightly less of a problem is the subject of the Red Zone. The Speakeasy is safe, but each of the NSFW sections will probably have to go. No real big loss in most cases. NSFWCW will probably become a censor-off sub, but no more sexual content. NSFW Debate will probably become 'Hard Debate' or something similar so the more adult or controversial debates (the Unconscionable Position rule threads, for example) have someplace to go.
For the Gutter, there isn't much we can do.
Option 1.) Kill it. I'm saying this to get it out of the way. I would rather not do this, as it will sacrifice all credibility that the staff has. We go back on our word, and because we can't cite Curse as the reason, we're doing it for no reason.
Option 2.) As I said before, cut off anything that doesn't fit in the box. Hazing, slurs, making fun of other members, all of that? Gone. The Gutter essentially becomes an invite-only clan in its own private sub that just so happens to have its censor off. All threads except TBGTE (and maybe even that one) get moved to a private read-only subforum that can only be accessed if you have the direct link, for archival purposes.
If you guys come up with other options, let me know. But that's about all I can come up with.
For Talore, GR, Teia, this isn't going to be fun. Sorry guys. Our hands are tied here, and I'm not going to enjoy this any more than I assume any of you will.
As it has been explained by one of the banned members in another forum:
Quote from A now banned member »
here's the real down low: they were going to shut us down/postpone the pegging talks because they were waiting on confirmation from Curse on whether or not we'd be allowed to stay open (re: harping on the use of hate speech). the final word came in and it not only said we couldn't use hate speech but also we couldn't stay open the way we were -- to quote "some person": Some Curse executive browsed the whole Salvation alongside rianalnn and the veredict is that the Gutter is a no go. They will only accept a censorless "clubhouse" for an "overclan" or some ****. And the fun part... there is a fun part... Curse is wants to force the admins to make it look like it's their thing and not Curse's
tl;dr: kpaca and Kijin were enticed to post about the upcoming sale by the staff, which came out handy in getting them banned. Here is a post outlining the plan to ban the majority of the Gutter members:
Quote from Senori »
I mean, obviously a lot of Gutter people spam the forum for a while, which sucks, but you can delete those posts or ban those users pretty easily.
Quote from Iggey »
PS: the leak is Nai.
More to come once I get ahold of the evidence
.
The first quoted post was made by Nai, as an opening post to a thread specifically to find a way to not have to close the Gutter, to not have to ruin that community. The admins had talked this over for some time, trying to find a way in which we would not have to act in a manner against our ethics and honour. We had said we weren't going to close the Gutter, and each of us wished to uphold that promise. After discussion in the Admin Lounge, discussion in the Global Lounge, we brought it to the moderators.
The various mods debated back and forth, discussing and searching for alternatives to closing the Gutter, or to neutering it. We had committed to work with the Gutter in lieu of closing it, and none of us were comfortable rescinding that promise. After increasingly frustrated discussions that could not find a good solution, the admins decided that we would rather resign than go back on our word. We decided that the best course of action was to contact Curse and ask them to reconsider their closing requirement. They informed us that we took the suggestion too seriously, that it was up to us to close or not; there had been a simple misunderstanding about the nature of our business relationship. Unfortunately, the entire discussion was blown out of proportion due to a lack of understanding about the nature of these discussions and whether they were up for debate or not.
Unfortunately, we have had a multitude of leaks over the past two months. Some of them may have been made to better the site and simply made a mistake. Some of them may have been made to hurt Salvation. But as far as we can tell, all the poor ramifications of these leaks have come from lack of context. From non-final decisions being leaked that later changed, to details being removed from context or purposefully twisted. This is one of those leaks. The poster tries to twist the first quote to mean exactly opposite of what it means. Same with the second. Furthermore, they've taken an out of context post from another moderator in an attempt to paint them in a bad light. They are actively trying to harm our website and, while we are flattered they care that much, we must respectively decline their invitation for a pissing contest and ask them to leave us in peace. With that said, we would like to thank all those recipients of this PM who stepped forwards to inform us that someone was attempting to harm this website. They believe in us, and they're our heroes for that. We'll see you guys around the site.
Just got to say, you've definitely earned distinction as an MTGS hero
Quote from Stardust »
Because he's the hero MTGS deserves, and the one it needs right now. So we'll global him. Because he can take it. Because he's not just our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful protector. An expired rascal.
Quote from LuckNorris »
ExpiredRascals you sir are a god-like hero.
Quote from Lanxal »
ER is a masterful god who cannot be beaten in any endeavour.
To be blatantly honest, I would have stopped any negotiations with Curse the moment they made that ridiculous and absolutely unreasonable suggestion about the Gutter-thingy.
I don`t know .. I wouldn`t want to have to deal with any business that essentially dictates you to blatantly lie to your userbase, misunderstanding or not.
You really must draw a line somewhere.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Petals within petals within petals, tadpole. The truth lurks below an opulence of illusion."
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
So, since Curse's attempt at making the staff seem responsible for the closure of the Gutter has now failed, are negotiations ceasing?
The gutterites and a number of other users have chosen to move to a new site, which is already up and running with thousands of posts.
So far it exists on a free server with a gobbledegook url; myself, the rest of admin, and the userbase are figuring out what we want to name it, and putting together a strategy for developing front page content/resources. Myself and some of the other members will create sig links once it's ready to go public, which shouldn't be too long.
We'd like to maintain a close relationship with MTGS, though of course we'll have certain differences in style. We're also particularly interested in finding people with programming expertise to help with front-page development.
So, since Curse's attempt at making the staff seem responsible for the closure of the Gutter has now failed, are negotiations ceasing?
That was based on a misunderstanding of Curse's intentions. They have since been cleared up.
For the record: my post quoted here is completely out of context. In the original, it was intended as a counterfactual discussion of theoretical ways of dealing with this situation if we were forced to do so. I don't seriously advocate it--and while I'm flattered that someone thinks I'm in a position to make "the plan" for the staff, that's quite far from the truth. I was simply trying to remind people of the fact that once we lose our autonomy we may have to make decisions we can't compromise on, and I was hoping to have a productive discussion about it--something leaks like this make impossible.
Whoever it was who maliciously leaked these posts ought to be ashamed of himself. Not only is this totally counterproductive, it is actively misleading in a way this staff has consistently refused to be. It makes you wonder about this person's good intentions when he feels like he has to lie and distort the truth to get his way.
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
How did you not get that? There were many things that happened during this whirlwind of activity, one of which was to state that the bannings of a number of prominent members was that they "leaked information that could be damaging to the site and it's users".
Everyone knows that's a crock of ****! None of the offenses were banable a year ago.
@E_R - I know how you view me, (a former gutterite) but I just can't understand how anything that has occurred over the past 3 months or so from the vocal, now banned, members be "harmful" to this site? Such a small number of MTGS members read the CI forums or anything outside of the Rumor Mill. Letting these members speak out about what they have heard and having the Administration respond with the truth and ACCURATE information would have curtailed any public outburst containing false information very quickly. But that isn't what happened is it? Instead the staff very quickly started deleting posts and angering the userbase with cover-up stories and poor excuses. Thus making the posters with the "false/incomplete" information annoyed, and pushing what they have out there any way possible. Making more and more unnecessary drama that could've been avoided by the truth from the administration.
You come out with this information now...which is good...but why wait this long to inform the rest of the community? Holding out this long just makes it all look worse. Like you guys had to get your stories straight...get your ducks in a row. I just don't know....
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Talkin outta turn....That's a paddlin'. Starin' at my sandals....That's a paddlin'. Paddlin' the school canoe....You better believe that's a paddlin'!" --Jasper
That was based on a misunderstanding of Curse's intentions. They have since been cleared up.
For the record: my post quoted here is completely out of context. In the original, it was intended as a counterfactual discussion of theoretical ways of dealing with this situation if we were forced to do so. I don't seriously advocate it--and while I'm flattered that someone thinks I'm in a position to make "the plan" for the staff, that's quite far from the truth. I was simply trying to remind people of the fact that once we lose our autonomy we may have to make decisions we can't compromise on, and I was hoping to have a productive discussion about it--something leaks like this make impossible.
Whoever it was who maliciously leaked these posts ought to be ashamed of himself. Not only is this totally counterproductive, it is actively misleading in a way this staff has consistently refused to be. It makes you wonder about this person's good intentions when he feels like he has to lie and distort the truth to get his way.
I don't have the communication between Nai and Curse in front of me, and perhaps it's just a misunderstanding, but if Curse really did ask the staff to lie to the userbase and pretend that closing the gutter was the staff's idea, that is a pretty serious integrity issue.
Kudos to those on the staff that (whether or not that was what really happened) decided that was not an acceptable course of action, instead of caving in to the pressure. It would have been very easy to make the wrong choice.
So are the Powers that Be still selling this site to Curse? Because if (and I'm not sure how big an if this is) they were trying to pin the Gutter closure on someone else to save their hides I don't think they should be in charge.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't have the communication between Nai and Curse in front of me, and perhaps it's just a misunderstanding, but if Curse really did ask the staff to lie to the userbase and pretend that closing the gutter was the staff's idea, that is a pretty serious integrity issue.
Kudos to those on the staff that (whether or not that was what really happened) decided that was not an acceptable course of action, instead of caving in to the pressure. It would have been very easy to make the wrong choice.
I agree. Integrity is a serious value for a person, individual or corporation, offline or online.
Maybe I'm being paranoid, in case it all goes to hell or whatever, but what are the systems of checks and balances of MTGS or contingency plans (in the event of anything and everything)?
... If only you can see me now. I have the most massive dirty/confused/annoyed look at the moment. Thank you for sharing this with us and for handling this as you have, though.
This single statement has been repeated over and over since August, basically since N_S's banning. When the Curse information was first leaked to the Gutter, I had to go in and say 'don't talk about this right now'. And if I was going to ask them to keep it under their hats, the only way to do that was to actually confirm the leak.
Certain folks have decided that since I confirmed the information (that Salvation was being sold to Curse, yadda yadda) that I constitute the 'leak'.
During negotiations with the gutter, Nai discussed a number of the details of the Curse sale with the gutter in an effort to be transparent about the staff's position. The gutter already knew that a buyout was afoot, and some other details may have leaked as well.
The conversation between admin and Fabien, the Curse liaison, in which he was supposed to have said that (most relevant bit bolded):
Quote from Nai »
About a week ago, the admins got in touch with our Curse liaison. This person will be directly above the admins when the deal goes through, so we're already establishing a working relationship. Fabien, our liaison, took a tour of the website with Lord Voldemort while discussing things with us. He got access to many areas, including the Speakeasy and the Gutter, and we asked him his opinion.
The first is the biggest news. The Gutter cannot stay, even with the sanctions we've currently put in. Curse will not allow such a place on our website. The hazings, the slurs, basically many of the liberties the Gutter has, they have no place on the Curse network. Curse has told us that we have to get them in line in any way we so choose. Kill the sub or cauterize the bits that stick out of the box, they don't care. But here's the important thing: We may not say that Curse said so.
For those of you who missed the implications of that, the Staff must pull a 180 here. We must, saying it was our idea, tell the Gutter that the past four months were all for naught and that we still have to change things entirely.
EDIT: Understood. It would be very interesting to see what made the staff interpret the conversation with the liaison as a directive not to implicate Curse in the gutter closing.
Curse's backing away from that position in their second conversation, and claiming that it was a misunderstanding - I don't know the liaison personally. I don't know whether to credit that or not.
"We were lying about that, but we promise we're not lying now."
I mean, how are we supposed to trust anything you guys say anymore? You've lied about everything. You keep damage controlling because your lies get bigger and bigger. You have to lie to cover up your lies.
Frankly, I don't see how Curse is seriously considering taking over this site and keeping any staff members.
Curse wants to buy this site. It'll cost money, and they're only getting it if they can make profit. They have this big company that is known for not having Gutter-like areas. They can't ruin this for us by buying a site with an area like that and letting it be. They gotta get rid of it before. Tell who has the power to do it (the staff) to do it. But they can easily save their hides and totally make the user base hate us by going "Sorry guys, they told us to do it." So they tell the staff not to say it was us that asked for it (not lying, just don't tell them that.) Staff goes "Uhh? I guess we can try..." and info is leaked. Staff tries to save ****. Curse sees the leak, and sees everything went to hell (exactly as they didn't want) and instead of just taking back the offer, they wonder if they can still save the sale by saying they were misunderstood, and the gutter can stay. This will hopefully for them, make them not draw the ire of the users and make them look like good guys.
On an unrelated note, I've seen way too many problems be "Misunderstandings"*
Easy, if I do something bad, I'm in ****. If you do something bad, you are in ****. If we both do something bad, we are both in ****. If you add a "misunderstanding" then it takes the blame. Sorry I tried to steal your cat, I misunderstood you. Sorry I shot your daughter, I misunderstood you. Sorry we killed each other's wife, we misunderstood each other. Take all the blame and put it on "misunderstanding". It effectively removes all accountability. Do anything you want, say there was a "misunderstanding", and woops, no one is in the wrong. I think people should be held accountable for "misunderstandings" they happen way too often, it seems people just act before thinking things through, which is something that shouldn't be done.
* Disclaimer: I'm talking about "Misunderstandings" in general, sure some of them can actually be that, but the amount of them you see everywhere ( not just MTGS) brought the previous thing to mind. I don't particularly care for the situation now anymore than a regular user, I'm not a gutterrite/staff so I don't take this to heart.
"We were lying about that, but we promise we're not lying now."
I mean, how are we supposed to trust anything you guys say anymore? You've lied about everything. You keep damage controlling because your lies get bigger and bigger. You have to lie to cover up your lies.
Frankly, I don't see how Curse is seriously considering taking over this site and keeping any staff members.
What statement has anyone on the staff made that was knowingly false? At the very worst, the only thing we have done is withhold information that was incomplete.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
Curse wants to buy this site. It'll cost money, and they're only getting it if they can make profit. They have this big company that is known for not having Gutter-like areas. They can't ruin this for us by buying a site with an area like that and letting it be. They gotta get rid of it before. Tell who has the power to do it (the staff) to do it. But they can easily save their hides and totally make the user base hate us by going "Sorry guys, they told us to do it." So they tell the staff not to say it was us that asked for it (not lying, just don't tell them that.) Staff goes "Uhh? I guess we can try..." and info is leaked. Staff tries to save ****. Curse sees the leak, and sees everything went to hell (exactly as they didn't want) and instead of just taking back the offer, they wonder if they can still save the sale by saying they were misunderstood, and the gutter can stay. This will hopefully for them, make them not draw the ire of the users and make them look like good guys.
On an unrelated note, I've seen way too many problems be "Misunderstandings"*
Easy, if I do something bad, I'm in ****. If you do something bad, you are in ****. If we both do something bad, we are both in ****. If you add a "misunderstanding" then it takes the blame. Sorry I tried to steal your cat, I misunderstood you. Sorry I shot your daughter, I misunderstood you. Sorry we killed each other's wife, we misunderstood each other. Take all the blame and put it on "misunderstanding". It effectively removes all accountability. Do anything you want, say there was a "misunderstanding", and woops, no one is in the wrong. I think people should be held accountable for "misunderstandings" they happen way too often, it seems people just act before thinking things through, which is something that shouldn't be done.
* Disclaimer: I'm talking about "Misunderstandings" in general, sure some of them can actually be that, but the amount of them you see everywhere ( not just MTGS) brought the previous thing to mind. I don't particularly care for the situation now anymore than a regular user, I'm not a gutterrite/staff so I don't take this to heart.
This was all clarified before the information leaked, so I don't think so.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Sing lustily and with good courage.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
They weren't this was just all a big missunderstanding...
If I were them (Curse), I would`ve said the same, no matter what my intention is/was, because, honestly, any other stance once all this blew up will create such a gigantic ****storm that will literally just sweep them away.
It`s, like, being caught pants down, so you`d better try with damage prevention now since that **** came down anyways.
Not that this is necessary true, but I`d be really careful with stuff like that.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Petals within petals within petals, tadpole. The truth lurks below an opulence of illusion."
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
But they can easily save their hides and totally make the user base hate us by going "Sorry guys, they told us to do it." So they tell the staff not to say it was us that asked for it (not lying, just don't tell them that.) Staff goes "Uhh? I guess we can try..." and info is leaked. Staff tries to save ****. Curse sees the leak, and sees everything went to hell (exactly as they didn't want) and instead of just taking back the offer, they wonder if they can still save the sale by saying they were misunderstood, and the gutter can stay.
I can personally vouch that this is not how things played out as far as the staff are concerned. Although a number of moderators felt that the staff would have no choice, that faction failed to carry the day. Ultimately the staff decided to send an email to Curse about their concerns, instead, and Curse stated that the initial communication was misunderstood. All of this occurred prior to the leak.
This said we do have to admit that in practical terms, the gutter still got nuked and all its most prominent members (including 100% of the guttermod team) are now sitewide banned. Thus the original goal of Curse seems to have been met.
Ironic, no?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Why Ban Affinity? Who doesn't like vomiting their hand into Play Turn 2?
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
The first quoted post was made by Nai, as an opening post to a thread specifically to find a way to not have to close the Gutter, to not have to ruin that community. The admins had talked this over for some time, trying to find a way in which we would not have to act in a manner against our ethics and honour. We had said we weren't going to close the Gutter, and each of us wished to uphold that promise. After discussion in the Admin Lounge, discussion in the Global Lounge, we brought it to the moderators.
The various mods debated back and forth, discussing and searching for alternatives to closing the Gutter, or to neutering it. We had committed to work with the Gutter in lieu of closing it, and none of us were comfortable rescinding that promise. After increasingly frustrated discussions that could not find a good solution, the admins decided that we would rather resign than go back on our word. We decided that the best course of action was to contact Curse and ask them to reconsider their closing requirement. They informed us that we took the suggestion too seriously, that it was up to us to close or not; there had been a simple misunderstanding about the nature of our business relationship. Unfortunately, the entire discussion was blown out of proportion due to a lack of understanding about the nature of these discussions and whether they were up for debate or not.
Unfortunately, we have had a multitude of leaks over the past two months. Some of them may have been made to better the site and simply made a mistake. Some of them may have been made to hurt Salvation. But as far as we can tell, all the poor ramifications of these leaks have come from lack of context. From non-final decisions being leaked that later changed, to details being removed from context or purposefully twisted. This is one of those leaks. The poster tries to twist the first quote to mean exactly opposite of what it means. Same with the second. Furthermore, they've taken an out of context post from another moderator in an attempt to paint them in a bad light. They are actively trying to harm our website and, while we are flattered they care that much, we must respectively decline their invitation for a pissing contest and ask them to leave us in peace. With that said, we would like to thank all those recipients of this PM who stepped forwards to inform us that someone was attempting to harm this website. They believe in us, and they're our heroes for that. We'll see you guys around the site.
Body Count: GRRRUUUUUUUUUUU
إن سرقت إسرق جمل
Level 1 Judge
My Cube for use with 6th ed. Rules
I don`t know .. I wouldn`t want to have to deal with any business that essentially dictates you to blatantly lie to your userbase, misunderstanding or not.
You really must draw a line somewhere.
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
Cool!
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The gutterites and a number of other users have chosen to move to a new site, which is already up and running with thousands of posts.
So far it exists on a free server with a gobbledegook url; myself, the rest of admin, and the userbase are figuring out what we want to name it, and putting together a strategy for developing front page content/resources. Myself and some of the other members will create sig links once it's ready to go public, which shouldn't be too long.
We'd like to maintain a close relationship with MTGS, though of course we'll have certain differences in style. We're also particularly interested in finding people with programming expertise to help with front-page development.
How did you get that?
That was based on a misunderstanding of Curse's intentions. They have since been cleared up.
For the record: my post quoted here is completely out of context. In the original, it was intended as a counterfactual discussion of theoretical ways of dealing with this situation if we were forced to do so. I don't seriously advocate it--and while I'm flattered that someone thinks I'm in a position to make "the plan" for the staff, that's quite far from the truth. I was simply trying to remind people of the fact that once we lose our autonomy we may have to make decisions we can't compromise on, and I was hoping to have a productive discussion about it--something leaks like this make impossible.
Whoever it was who maliciously leaked these posts ought to be ashamed of himself. Not only is this totally counterproductive, it is actively misleading in a way this staff has consistently refused to be. It makes you wonder about this person's good intentions when he feels like he has to lie and distort the truth to get his way.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
How did you not get that? There were many things that happened during this whirlwind of activity, one of which was to state that the bannings of a number of prominent members was that they "leaked information that could be damaging to the site and it's users".
Everyone knows that's a crock of ****! None of the offenses were banable a year ago.
@E_R - I know how you view me, (a former gutterite) but I just can't understand how anything that has occurred over the past 3 months or so from the vocal, now banned, members be "harmful" to this site? Such a small number of MTGS members read the CI forums or anything outside of the Rumor Mill. Letting these members speak out about what they have heard and having the Administration respond with the truth and ACCURATE information would have curtailed any public outburst containing false information very quickly. But that isn't what happened is it? Instead the staff very quickly started deleting posts and angering the userbase with cover-up stories and poor excuses. Thus making the posters with the "false/incomplete" information annoyed, and pushing what they have out there any way possible. Making more and more unnecessary drama that could've been avoided by the truth from the administration.
You come out with this information now...which is good...but why wait this long to inform the rest of the community? Holding out this long just makes it all look worse. Like you guys had to get your stories straight...get your ducks in a row. I just don't know....
I don't have the communication between Nai and Curse in front of me, and perhaps it's just a misunderstanding, but if Curse really did ask the staff to lie to the userbase and pretend that closing the gutter was the staff's idea, that is a pretty serious integrity issue.
Kudos to those on the staff that (whether or not that was what really happened) decided that was not an acceptable course of action, instead of caving in to the pressure. It would have been very easy to make the wrong choice.
----------------------------
Club Flamingo Wins: 10
----------------------------
EDH Decks
BG Vicious Varolz | RW Jor Kadeen, the Mean Machine | RG Atarka: Muh_Dragons.dec (WIP) | WU Brago, Blink Eternal (WIP)
----------------------------
What is this based on?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Maybe I'm being paranoid, in case it all goes to hell or whatever, but what are the systems of checks and balances of MTGS or contingency plans (in the event of anything and everything)?
... If only you can see me now. I have the most massive dirty/confused/annoyed look at the moment. Thank you for sharing this with us and for handling this as you have, though.
I agree. Integrity is a serious value for a person, individual or corporation, offline or online.
This one I can answer.
This single statement has been repeated over and over since August, basically since N_S's banning. When the Curse information was first leaked to the Gutter, I had to go in and say 'don't talk about this right now'. And if I was going to ask them to keep it under their hats, the only way to do that was to actually confirm the leak.
Certain folks have decided that since I confirmed the information (that Salvation was being sold to Curse, yadda yadda) that I constitute the 'leak'.
My helpdesk should you need me.
During negotiations with the gutter, Nai discussed a number of the details of the Curse sale with the gutter in an effort to be transparent about the staff's position. The gutter already knew that a buyout was afoot, and some other details may have leaked as well.
ED: Nathed.
Have you seen the message in question, Votan, or is that confined to global/admin?
*blinks* So you are. Missed that. Congrats.
The conversation between admin and Fabien, the Curse liaison, in which he was supposed to have said that (most relevant bit bolded):
EDIT: Understood. It would be very interesting to see what made the staff interpret the conversation with the liaison as a directive not to implicate Curse in the gutter closing.
Curse's backing away from that position in their second conversation, and claiming that it was a misunderstanding - I don't know the liaison personally. I don't know whether to credit that or not.
My helpdesk should you need me.
I mean, how are we supposed to trust anything you guys say anymore? You've lied about everything. You keep damage controlling because your lies get bigger and bigger. You have to lie to cover up your lies.
Frankly, I don't see how Curse is seriously considering taking over this site and keeping any staff members.
Curse wants to buy this site. It'll cost money, and they're only getting it if they can make profit. They have this big company that is known for not having Gutter-like areas. They can't ruin this for us by buying a site with an area like that and letting it be. They gotta get rid of it before. Tell who has the power to do it (the staff) to do it. But they can easily save their hides and totally make the user base hate us by going "Sorry guys, they told us to do it." So they tell the staff not to say it was us that asked for it (not lying, just don't tell them that.) Staff goes "Uhh? I guess we can try..." and info is leaked. Staff tries to save ****. Curse sees the leak, and sees everything went to hell (exactly as they didn't want) and instead of just taking back the offer, they wonder if they can still save the sale by saying they were misunderstood, and the gutter can stay. This will hopefully for them, make them not draw the ire of the users and make them look like good guys.
On an unrelated note, I've seen way too many problems be "Misunderstandings"*
Easy, if I do something bad, I'm in ****. If you do something bad, you are in ****. If we both do something bad, we are both in ****. If you add a "misunderstanding" then it takes the blame. Sorry I tried to steal your cat, I misunderstood you. Sorry I shot your daughter, I misunderstood you. Sorry we killed each other's wife, we misunderstood each other. Take all the blame and put it on "misunderstanding". It effectively removes all accountability. Do anything you want, say there was a "misunderstanding", and woops, no one is in the wrong. I think people should be held accountable for "misunderstandings" they happen way too often, it seems people just act before thinking things through, which is something that shouldn't be done.
* Disclaimer: I'm talking about "Misunderstandings" in general, sure some of them can actually be that, but the amount of them you see everywhere ( not just MTGS) brought the previous thing to mind. I don't particularly care for the situation now anymore than a regular user, I'm not a gutterrite/staff so I don't take this to heart.
What statement has anyone on the staff made that was knowingly false? At the very worst, the only thing we have done is withhold information that was incomplete.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
This was all clarified before the information leaked, so I don't think so.
Be aware of singing as if you were half dead,
or half asleep:
but lift your voice with strength.
Be no more afraid of your voice now,
nor more ashamed of its being heard,
than when you sang the songs of Satan.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If I were them (Curse), I would`ve said the same, no matter what my intention is/was, because, honestly, any other stance once all this blew up will create such a gigantic ****storm that will literally just sweep them away.
It`s, like, being caught pants down, so you`d better try with damage prevention now since that **** came down anyways.
Not that this is necessary true, but I`d be really careful with stuff like that.
—Neerdiv, fallowsage
I can personally vouch that this is not how things played out as far as the staff are concerned. Although a number of moderators felt that the staff would have no choice, that faction failed to carry the day. Ultimately the staff decided to send an email to Curse about their concerns, instead, and Curse stated that the initial communication was misunderstood. All of this occurred prior to the leak.
This said we do have to admit that in practical terms, the gutter still got nuked and all its most prominent members (including 100% of the guttermod team) are now sitewide banned. Thus the original goal of Curse seems to have been met.
Ironic, no?