2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
It should just be a lynch, Ria was the hammer before the deadline.
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The fight to overcome the evil n'er-do-wells has sapped the strength from many. Most of all Digi feels too crushed by the burden of responsibility pressed upon him. How can he be sure who should live or die? Could this all be a misunderstanding? Can't we all just get along?
So overwhelmed, Digi barely resists as the other crowd around him, as the hum of suspicion reaching fever pitch. He faintly croaks out his name as the noose slides around his neck.
Looking up, his eyes open wide absorbing the grim faces of the mob. The weight lifts from him and he smiles as he realizes that he found the easy way out.
Digi: Olive Oyl, Vanilla Town has been lynched.
It is now Night 4, which WILL be smooth. Get those actions in soon and keep an eye on your inbox.
Once more you assemble, once more someone is missing.
Very soon, the very badly beaten and bruised body of Kill Joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner is discovered. Most of you would have lost your breakfast if you'd had any.
Speaking of which! It's gruel time!
Day Five has begun. With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch!
Your mod is V/LA until Friday. Please do not feed the giant piranhas in his absence.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Iso: Nice shot. Do you (a la N1) know what happened to the missing mafia NK? I rather doubt the mafia sequestered anyone they wanted to kill. Also, your Cyouni case, please?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
The role does not make sense in scum hands, but I'm glad that you went with behavior over role-gaming, Iso, as his behavior was totally obvscum. But until you post a legitimate case on Cyouni or someone else brings forth a different suspect, we're not going to get much done.
I for one now trust Iso completely and think rianalnn has a good chance of being scum. Yes, more setup gaming. A reread is in order.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I'm agreeing with Iso on this. Cyouni is the best possibility for scum at this point. Holding off on vote until I can read the game better tonight at work.
Thank you to everyone who showed their concern for me in my recent RL issues.
Since Iso is claiming Vig on Kill-Joy, then what happened to the Mafia NK? We already have a SuperDoctor dead and I don't believe we would have another protective role.
Since Kill-Joy was Mafia, then he would know who is in the bunker since he is inviting them. So that eliminates the possibility that the Mafia tried to NK inside the bunker or outside the bunker.
IMO, this holds credence that Iso could be pulling a gambit against the town and used the Mafia NK to NK a teammate for Town Vig credence.
FoS: Iso
If this line of thought is correct, then AsianI showing his trust in Iso could be indicative of AsianI being scum as well.
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Going off of a post by Eco (if interpreted right) I believe night actions happen in the order that he receives them. So by chance kj could of been the mafia member performing the kill but Iso sent in night actions before kj sent his in and therefore kj died before making his kill.
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
This plus other reasons is why I am reducing the amount of games I play in to no more than 2 at one time.
Note: I didn't check for flavor on the NK. Major flaw... Hindsight is 20/20.
KoolKoal: Feel free to take this with a grain of salt since self meta isn't particularly helpful, but I think I get scumread mostly for style over substance, but also for a certain lack of substance over style. It's not so much what I AM posting most of the time (though sometimes that can seem bad) but what I'm NOT posting. I've been told I come to non-obvious conclusions a lot, so when I post, quite a bit of the time there's jumps in logic that people can't follow and they think that's scummy. I get that accusation about a lot of questions I ask specifically. People call them "busy work" when the questions are legit etc.
As far as things to ignore, I can't think of anything. I would suggest you focus less on what I'm doing and more on how I'm doing it. That's probably more likely to be accurate. Like I've just said, what I do tends to come off a little weird, but if you look for how I do it, mindset comes into play and maybe you figure out something useful.
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
Have you guys never seen a game where different players have different kill flavours?
Even so it wifom, I could spread some more if you want me to, like the scum setting iso up. I think iso is town but I'm not going to confirm him because it looks like he vigged scum. if we really want to go down the road of whether or not it was a gambit etc, we can only go down from here.
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I'm saying that is a poor reason to think Iso clear.
I don't think Iso is scum. I do think there is a lack of critical thinking going on. Shooting your own teammate when a gambit of "oh, I shot but he was self-bunkered" is far more profitable – the town tracker/watcher is dead, seems low-risk. There's no reason to even get as far as gaming the flavour, which only tells us that different kill methods were used anyway.
We have a lot of information in-thread at this point. Time to analyze some wagons, look at patterns.
AI barned Cyouni's weak setup gaming without (as I recall) putting any effort into showing the math, yet while clearly seeing how scummy KJ's actions were & doing his best to ignore some of the scummiest behavioral tells I have ever seen in a mafia game. My scum read on AI yesterDay is only bolstered by KJ coming up dead in red. vote:AsianInvansion
You got pretty unpleasant about this, guy. For your sake, I hope you're scum so you had an investment in being so abrasive & stubborn while (wrongly) gaming the setup.
If you're town, check yourself. Veteran players set the example for this sub community.
Going off of a post by Eco (if interpreted right) I believe night actions happen in the order that he receives them. So by chance kj could of been the mafia member performing the kill but Iso sent in night actions before kj sent his in and therefore kj died before making his kill.
Going off of a post by Eco (if interpreted right) I believe night actions happen in the order that he receives them. So by chance kj could of been the mafia member performing the kill but Iso sent in night actions before kj sent his in and therefore kj died before making his kill.
Point to this post please.
It was to add to the thinking of why there was no NK observed.
The answer would depend on the order in which night actions resolve and the exact nature of the permablocker, neither of which is not public knowledge. Thus, I will not be answering this question.
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
Have you guys never seen a game where different players have different kill flavours?
I was going to say something about this, but ria got there first.
Iso, given the number of games you've played in, why would you bring that up as a reason to clear yourself?
You got pretty unpleasant about this, guy. For your sake, I hope you're scum so you had an investment in being so abrasive & stubborn while (wrongly) gaming the setup.
If you're town, check yourself. Veteran players set the example for this sub community.
The answer would depend on the order in which night actions resolve and the exact nature of the permablocker, neither of which is not public knowledge. Thus, I will not be answering this question.
This would be the post I refer to.
That's speculation at best. There's no reason why that would be the order of night actions. How would a roleblocker work under that situation, for instance?
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
Have you guys never seen a game where different players have different kill flavours?
AI barned Cyouni's weak setup gaming without (as I recall) putting any effort into showing the math, yet while clearly seeing how scummy KJ's actions were & doing his best to ignore some of the scummiest behavioral tells I have ever seen in a mafia game. My scum read on AI yesterDay is only bolstered by KJ coming up dead in red. vote:AsianInvansion
I could be persuaded of this, though if one is scum the other can't be because of what I pointed out yesterDay.
Iso, given the number of games you've played in, why would you bring that up as a reason to clear yourself?
Because it would be bastard modding to give me the same kill flavor as the scum. I can understand supremely flavorful and exceedingly complex games giving different kill flavors to different scum members, but this is pretty much a Normal.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Clans:
Iso for [The Family]
Tordeck for [CMB]
Asian Invasion for [Izzet]
Cyouni for [World Builders]
Allwinapprentice for [Tolarian Academy] sXe Rianalnn for [The Called]
Independents:
Reya Cookiebringer Shalako Void
Damsels Ironically Freed From Distress By Death 8/16:
DRey - Mary-Jane Watson, Town Vanilla - Blasted away Day 1 Drifting Skies InfectiousBaloth - Ann Darrow, Vanilla Town - Lynched Day 1
Vishamon for [Club Flamingo] - Luigi, Mafia Permablocker - Lynched Day 2
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
TheEndIsNear for [Kitchen Table Finks] - Cato Fong, Town Tracker/Watcher - Lynched Day 3
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Digi for [House Dimir] - Olive Oyl, Town Vanilla - Lynched Day 4
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Wheat_Grinder for [The Crafters] - Dr. Watson, Town Chronicler - Throat slit Night 2
Gaea's Regent (formally for [The Gang]) - Samwise Gamgee, Town SuperDoc - Throat slit Night 3
Kill joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner - Beaten to death Night 4
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
Have you guys never seen a game where different players have different kill flavours?
I have, they're called Specialties.
That holds no weight at all. I can point out multiple Basics where different scum had different kill flavours.
Iso, given the number of games you've played in, why would you bring that up as a reason to clear yourself?
Because it would be bastard modding to give me the same kill flavor as the scum. I can understand supremely flavorful and exceedingly complex games giving different kill flavors to different scum members, but this is pretty much a Normal.
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2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
TL;DR: The scum we caught so far have both been uber-lurking non-entities.
So, who appears to be the lurkiest non-entity in the game right now to you?
I don't think that is how the last two scum will be caught. I made that note to remind myself that it will be difficult to establish scumbuddy associations through simple vote analysis; the only two revealed scum failed to vote at all after Day One. At all.
I have a town read on Allwin and I'm leaning town on Cyouni (but have never been able to read him well). Cyouni has stated (circa Ozone Underground) that he can be caught as scum by his inability to properly distance himself from his scumbuddies, but he is good enough that he may have figured out how to do it by now (it also helps that if he is scum here, two of his buddies were more than distant enough from the game to make up for it). One thing I noticed while rereading is that Cyouni was one of the early Vishamon voters come D2; after Vish made the astounding comment that he stuck by his InfectiousBaloth [mis]vote, Cyouni questioned and then voted him for it. I think this makes Cyouni look more townish.
That leaves sXe/rianalnn, Tordeck, and Reya Cookiebringer as the players I'd find most likely to be scum. sXe, Tordeck, and Reya have all been relatively lurky, but rianalnn has been more of what zindabad would call a genie; he will always appear when called.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Dr. Watson, second fiddle to Sherlock Holmes. Holmes' methods are rather odd, yet they always seem to work. Having watched him countless times, I have learned to emulate him.
I targeted Cyouni. He's an asset to the town when he's town, and I've misread him in the past. However, it failed. I considered asking why this was the case in-thread immediately, but decided to keep it to myself for the time being so I wouldn't have to reveal myself for little purpose.
But now that I have a second purpose, I ask again: why did my cop fail, Cyouni?
I'm not at liberty to explain at the moment.
One thing, though: AI, was what happened last night instigated by you?
Cyouni's reaction here to us being sequestered was very townish. IIRC, he, sXe, and I were the targets N1 and N2. I find it unlikely that the mafia used their pseudo-jailer on a scumbuddy two Nights in a row, and when this is considered alongside rianalnn's strong push against kill-joy immediately after replacing, I'm going to put sXe/rianalnn down as leaning town.
So scum caught today? Unless wheat is lying which I think would be a pretty bad gambit from his pov. I think tomorrow we should go for AI his unvote didn't even wait for a cc or anything. I also didn't like TEIN's hesitence to voting Vish.
What are everyone's thoughts on VIsh claiming digi as town assuming vish is scum?
An entree of fence-sitting topped with "low-hanging fruit" chain-lynching and "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" garnish, served with a side of WIFOM soup. Not a meal I'd order.
The interactions between Cyouni and Void starting with this post are very unsettling given what we now know about Wheat_Grinder; it feels like Void is just looking for an angle of attack that isn't there, before finally giving up the case.
In #438, Void wall'o'text's W_G before stating, "I'd be happy with a WG lynch toDay." #449 starts with a defensive retort in response to Cyouni questioning Void's reasoning behind his vote.
By #468, Void seems to have changed his tune and pegs W_G as a neutral. #479 is the post I lambast as ridiculous. However, Vishamon comments on it in #486 in a way that makes more sense as scum talking to town than scum talking to a buddy. I can't tell if Void was neutral-hunting because he is mafia or because he didn't realize that neutral-hunting is not a winning proposition.
(Upon reflection, kill-joy's #447 was terribad, even for a catch-up post. He's definitely on my short-list of potential scum.)
While I'm rereading, I'll comment on some of Vishamon's posts.
#109 looks good for Iso. #153 & #154 look good for Allwin. #231, however, looks bad for Allwin. "Content of quality" is such an awkward phrase, and the entire post just reads like deflection. #416 looks good for GR and kill-joy, if we assume that Vishamon would let lurking buddies lurk. (#507 & #508 are further points in GR's favor.) #613 compares TEIN and DS in a way that makes TEIN look better. #687 is Vishamon trying to drag me down with him. Obvious manipulation is obvious.
I think that's enough work for now.
This was the first serious bit of analysis I'd done this game, and I wanted to especially note my interpretations of Vishamon's interactions. My initial reads were pretty good, with the exception of being wrong about kill-joy. Unfortunately, Vishamon re: Allwin was a mixed bag.
Why do you think that points in GR's favor? It looks to me like scum lamenting a lurking buddy.
I don't think so, because Vishamon has no reason to do that publicly if it would draw attention to the fact that his buddy is lurking. It makes more sense that Vishamon was looking for easy targets, and decided that lurker-hunting would make it look like he was contributing.
I knew he wasn't lynched yet! I counted myself and he didn't seem lynched yet.
Reya, I think you are scum. You were pretty quick to vote lynch Vish, thats a big "He's dead anyways, but voting for him makes it look like I'm a town trying to lynch the scum."
And here begins Reya's questionable behavior. TEIN notes Reya's contentless hammer, which looks circumspect following the fence-sitting I note above.
I think void is town whether or not iso is town. As scum there would be no reason to pull this much out for a scum buddy and the unusual claim. The situation make much more sense each way if void is town.
An oddly specific comment re: Void that fails to make any assertion re: Iso, or any other players for that matter. I know Reya was busy around this time, but this is straight up active lurking.
Kj really has not done anything lately. He has averaged like a post a week over the last month. I'm surprised he hasn't been replaced. He fence sat on TEIN and I can't really find any interaction between him and vish. I wouldn't say he is extremely scummy since I cant find much on him other than some forced reactions early on.
As for who I think is scummiest right now I'm not sure. GR seems like an obvious nk target being confirmed town so nothing really coming from there. I'll probably do a reread on AI, Iso, and Digi.
Fence-sits on scum. Declares no visible interaction between two scum. Has no reads to share. This is a post of nothing.
Rereading digi I see his basic play. I don't want to get into the whole meta argument again but I'm not sure he is the best choice. He seems to have just tunneled into Iso which in indicative of his regular town and apparently his scum play too. His behavior has not been extremely advantageous for scum though. He was not on vish's wagon but neither was he on IB's or TEIN's. When I read through other people's posts perhaps I will get a better picture.
Fence-sits on Digi. Reiterates need to reread but never delivers on content.
I thought I had switched my apologies
At this point, the scum must be in the pool of rianalnn, Reya, Allwin, and Tordeck. Maybe Cyouni.
I guess that list wasn't as informative as I had hoped, as the only players I would absolutely not want lynched are kill-joy, Void, and myself.
He was voting Kill Joy as of post 1265. On at least one vote count, you have AI & Allwin reversed.
My count has Digi sitting on 5 votes. Deadline is gone, but mod is not in.
vote:Digi to attempt no lynch dodge.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
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wwab is the best mafia player ever
Want to trade with me?
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=294434
Apologies for the delay, I went out last night it it has taken me some considerable time to return home. Sundays are a poor day for public transport.
EDIT: Ria was correct, I had AI and Allwin switched on the last vote count. As a result, Digi was lynched in post #1348. Apologies.
Digi - 6
Iso, AsianInvasion, Cyoini, Void, Tordeck, Allwinapprentice
Kill Joy - 3
Rianalnn, Reya Cookiebringer, Digi
Not Voting - 1
Kill Joy
***
The fight to overcome the evil n'er-do-wells has sapped the strength from many. Most of all Digi feels too crushed by the burden of responsibility pressed upon him. How can he be sure who should live or die? Could this all be a misunderstanding? Can't we all just get along?
So overwhelmed, Digi barely resists as the other crowd around him, as the hum of suspicion reaching fever pitch. He faintly croaks out his name as the noose slides around his neck.
Looking up, his eyes open wide absorbing the grim faces of the mob. The weight lifts from him and he smiles as he realizes that he found the easy way out.
Digi: Olive Oyl, Vanilla Town has been lynched.
It is now Night 4, which WILL be smooth. Get those actions in soon and keep an eye on your inbox.
Very soon, the very badly beaten and bruised body of Kill Joy - April O'Neil, Mafia Bunker Owner is discovered. Most of you would have lost your breakfast if you'd had any.
Speaking of which! It's gruel time!
Day Five has begun. With 8 players alive, it takes 5 votes to lynch!
Your mod is V/LA until Friday. Please do not feed the giant piranhas in his absence.
Guess his bluff got...
De-Bunkered.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Vote Cyouni
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Tastes like chicken.
@Iso: Nice shot. Do you (a la N1) know what happened to the missing mafia NK? I rather doubt the mafia sequestered anyone they wanted to kill. Also, your Cyouni case, please?
Thanks.
No, I stop visiting rooms after I get my shot.
How 'bout his adamant defense of kill-joy, for one?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That's still a really random role for mafia.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I agree.
The role does not make sense in scum hands, but I'm glad that you went with behavior over role-gaming, Iso, as his behavior was totally obvscum. But until you post a legitimate case on Cyouni or someone else brings forth a different suspect, we're not going to get much done.
I for one now trust Iso completely and think rianalnn has a good chance of being scum. Yes, more setup gaming. A reread is in order.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Since Iso is claiming Vig on Kill-Joy, then what happened to the Mafia NK? We already have a SuperDoctor dead and I don't believe we would have another protective role.
Since Kill-Joy was Mafia, then he would know who is in the bunker since he is inviting them. So that eliminates the possibility that the Mafia tried to NK inside the bunker or outside the bunker.
IMO, this holds credence that Iso could be pulling a gambit against the town and used the Mafia NK to NK a teammate for Town Vig credence.
FoS: Iso
If this line of thought is correct, then AsianI showing his trust in Iso could be indicative of AsianI being scum as well.
Minor flavor discrepancies.
That said, I don't know why no one else died last Night.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Going off of a post by Eco (if interpreted right) I believe night actions happen in the order that he receives them. So by chance kj could of been the mafia member performing the kill but Iso sent in night actions before kj sent his in and therefore kj died before making his kill.
This plus other reasons is why I am reducing the amount of games I play in to no more than 2 at one time.
Note: I didn't check for flavor on the NK. Major flaw... Hindsight is 20/20.
GO SCUM!
Have you guys never seen a game where different players have different kill flavours?
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I don't think Iso is scum. I do think there is a lack of critical thinking going on. Shooting your own teammate when a gambit of "oh, I shot but he was self-bunkered" is far more profitable – the town tracker/watcher is dead, seems low-risk. There's no reason to even get as far as gaming the flavour, which only tells us that different kill methods were used anyway.
We have a lot of information in-thread at this point. Time to analyze some wagons, look at patterns.
AI barned Cyouni's weak setup gaming without (as I recall) putting any effort into showing the math, yet while clearly seeing how scummy KJ's actions were & doing his best to ignore some of the scummiest behavioral tells I have ever seen in a mafia game. My scum read on AI yesterDay is only bolstered by KJ coming up dead in red. vote:AsianInvansion
You got pretty unpleasant about this, guy. For your sake, I hope you're scum so you had an investment in being so abrasive & stubborn while (wrongly) gaming the setup.
If you're town, check yourself. Veteran players set the example for this sub community.
Point to this post please.
It was to add to the thinking of why there was no NK observed.
You misunderstand; please link the Eco post you refer to
This would be the post I refer to.
Possible, but implausable. Only worth looking into in the event that all roles have been claimed and there's no way to have stopped the NK.
I was going to say something about this, but ria got there first.
Iso, given the number of games you've played in, why would you bring that up as a reason to clear yourself?
I admit that I respond badly to condescension.
That's speculation at best. There's no reason why that would be the order of night actions. How would a roleblocker work under that situation, for instance?
I believe that was talked of happening today. I am for a mass claim.
I have, they're called Specialties.
I could be persuaded of this, though if one is scum the other can't be because of what I pointed out yesterDay.
Because it would be bastard modding to give me the same kill flavor as the scum. I can understand supremely flavorful and exceedingly complex games giving different kill flavors to different scum members, but this is pretty much a Normal.
Not particularly.
Also, Cyouni, I think you should tell us what you did last Night, if I'm reading your last post properly.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
When I have some more time I'll review the Vishamon and kill-joy wagons to see what we can learn from those.
Like I said - Basics. No weight at all.
You're more than experienced enough to know this.
I have no reason to do so barring a massclaim.
While I'm on that subject, I'm not against it.
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Would you mind giving a reason why?
Cyouni
I'm counting your response for a mass claim, with a "?", until you confirm.
For MC (4)
Void
Allwin
Reya
Cyouni?
Against MC (1)
Iso
8 player means 5 votes to MC.
So, who appears to be the lurkiest non-entity in the game right now to you?
I've never seen that in anything but Specialties. But okay. That said, there's a reason my vote is on you.
@Void: I said I had no problem with a massclaim.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't think that is how the last two scum will be caught. I made that note to remind myself that it will be difficult to establish scumbuddy associations through simple vote analysis; the only two revealed scum failed to vote at all after Day One. At all.
I have a town read on Allwin and I'm leaning town on Cyouni (but have never been able to read him well). Cyouni has stated (circa Ozone Underground) that he can be caught as scum by his inability to properly distance himself from his scumbuddies, but he is good enough that he may have figured out how to do it by now (it also helps that if he is scum here, two of his buddies were more than distant enough from the game to make up for it). One thing I noticed while rereading is that Cyouni was one of the early Vishamon voters come D2; after Vish made the astounding comment that he stuck by his InfectiousBaloth [mis]vote, Cyouni questioned and then voted him for it. I think this makes Cyouni look more townish.
That leaves sXe/rianalnn, Tordeck, and Reya Cookiebringer as the players I'd find most likely to be scum. sXe, Tordeck, and Reya have all been relatively lurky, but rianalnn has been more of what zindabad would call a genie; he will always appear when called.
FWIW, it's true that Basics have had that trait.
I am neither for nor against. I don't think a massclaim will help us, but I think most of the strong town power is already public knowledge.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Void: This is pretty much my stance on it as well.
Cyouni's reaction here to us being sequestered was very townish. IIRC, he, sXe, and I were the targets N1 and N2. I find it unlikely that the mafia used their pseudo-jailer on a scumbuddy two Nights in a row, and when this is considered alongside rianalnn's strong push against kill-joy immediately after replacing, I'm going to put sXe/rianalnn down as leaning town.
For the curious (Void, Iso, etc.), this was a breadcrumb based on the fact that there was a sofa in the bunker N1.
An entree of fence-sitting topped with "low-hanging fruit" chain-lynching and "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" garnish, served with a side of WIFOM soup. Not a meal I'd order.
This was the first serious bit of analysis I'd done this game, and I wanted to especially note my interpretations of Vishamon's interactions. My initial reads were pretty good, with the exception of being wrong about kill-joy. Unfortunately, Vishamon re: Allwin was a mixed bag.
Also:
Correct on GR, - for Tordeck.
And here begins Reya's questionable behavior. TEIN notes Reya's contentless hammer, which looks circumspect following the fence-sitting I note above.
An oddly specific comment re: Void that fails to make any assertion re: Iso, or any other players for that matter. I know Reya was busy around this time, but this is straight up active lurking.
Fast wagon against the "terrible behavior" from a greenhorn. Wants a claim, doesn't check with the rest of the town.
More conflation of n00biness with scumminess when Iso correctly puts on the brakes.
Fence-sits on scum. Declares no visible interaction between two scum. Has no reads to share. This is a post of nothing.
Fence-sits on Digi. Reiterates need to reread but never delivers on content.
Goes on a trip.
I got bored of rereading so I stopped there.
I also noticed a couple other things that I won't share now. Remind me if we mass-claim.
Vote Reya Cookiebringer
The Family
Glad to hear that you're safe, at any rate.