If Arn got an unlock confirmation message, according to what he said, that means Asenion used an ability last Night and is lying. Which is why I'm asking. Because with a missing Nightkill, THAT is the kind of lie worth lynching someone over.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If Arn got an unlock confirmation message, according to what he said, that means Asenion used an ability last Night and is lying. Which is why I'm asking. Because with a missing Nightkill, THAT is the kind of lie worth lynching someone over.
Even with unlock confirmation, we don't know why the nightkill ability failed.
@Arn: But you said you give a lock/unlock to people whose abilities you successfully thwart.
@Eco: You're missing the point. What I am saying is that if Asenion DID take an action last Night and it was blocked, why would he lie about that unless it was the NK?
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@Eco: You're missing the point. What I am saying is that if Asenion DID take an action last Night and it was blocked, why would he lie about that unless it was the NK?
Oh sure, but we have no way of knowing whether he attempted an action or not.
Iso: You're missing the fact Arn gets his unlock whenever a skill fails, not just when he makes it fail. As such, even if, say, the NK target was you but Asian bodyguarded you and survived due to his other skill, the NK failed and thus Arn got his unlock.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I've reread the first 180 posts and I think I can give my 2 cents here too.
First, it's safe to disregard "scum didn't do the NK on purpose", considering the game state (scum are 2 members short) this is not only unlikely but impossible, second, Arn has received ONE unlock, meaning only one ability NK has fizzled last night therefore only the NK, third, so far Asension is the only one confirmed to have been roleblocked last night.
While not conclusive, this is all very damming evidence, besides I don't remember Asension being in any kind of pressure yesterDay (good job Arnaria :thumbsup:), meaning it makes total sense for the scumteam to choose him to perform the NK.
While I dislike to see players lying I do agree that lying per se is not indicative of scum but I've noticed a completely different behaviour of this Asension and the early game Asension. Back there he was all "hey why are you voting? how do we kill people? What do I do now? I'm so clueless :uhh:". While now he's "heh, I've fooled all of you, I've been lying from the start and managed to unlock my abilities because of that, I know very well what I'm doing here :cool2:". It's like a totally different person, and I don't think feigning stupidity is a town tell, in fact I do it all the time as scum so I'm wary of such ploys.
TLDR: Asession is the lynch for toDay and chances are high he will flip scum I'm fine with either Xyre, Axel or Arnaria getting an unlock.
@Mod votecount please.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
@DRey
It's not conclusive that Asension was blocked. Arnnaria gets an unlock when any ability fails, not just abilities he blocks. It is conceivable that Arnnaria blocked Asension (who didn't perform any abilities) the NK failed for some other reason (protective role, random chance, etc.), and Arnnaria got his unlock from the NK failing.
I do think it's more likely Asension did try to perform the NK and Arnnaria managed to block him, but the other scenario isn't a remote possibility.
What makes you say that the mafia need unlocks "pretty desperately"?
Simple math. Down 2 players in the first 2 days, at statistical improbability of winning, with the "evener" ability requiring 5 unlocks, plus whatever else they have personally. This all on top of there being less people to earn those unlocks.
Hm, alright.
Quote from AI »
Quote from Caex »
There's a bit of a misrep in here, in that I didn't actually ask for an unlock. I put my name up for consideration for an unlock. There are certainly other people who should be considered (Xyre, Axelrod, and Ecophagy first and foremost).
Just confused then, why you would put your name up there when you seem to think the others are obvious considerations. Why muddy the waters?
Because there was discussion of unlocking protective roles. If Asenion was going to choose (or be directed, more likely) to unlock protective roles rather than those of the super-townie players, there should be more options than just one or two people.
Everything scares me... kitties scare me... squirrels scare me... corpses....corpses bring forth a pletora of confusing feeling which i prefer not to dwell on...:p
@DRey
It's not conclusive that Asension was blocked. Arnnaria gets an unlock when any ability fails, not just abilities he blocks. It is conceivable that Arnnaria blocked Asension (who didn't perform any abilities) the NK failed for some other reason (protective role, random chance, etc.), and Arnnaria got his unlock from the NK failing.
I do think it's more likely Asension did try to perform the NK and Arnnaria managed to block him, but the other scenario isn't a remote possibility.
Get serious, do you actually believe think Zinda would give the mafia a random chance NK? Not in a million years. Besides, AI is our claimed protective role and if he's alive it means he's failed to protect anyone (I still think he's scum btw so the chances of he protecting town are nil). I agree there's the chance of we still having a doc out there (one that's not scum :D) but we should consider only the things we do know or are probable, not things that could been possible but are unlikely.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
(3) Star Trek Myriad Universes II - In this game WoD does do a big list. It's Here. Under "Town to Townish" were Red Omega and Sepiriel. Scumbuddies. Under "Scummy" were three people, including Iso - Scumbuddy.
Actually, I was town at the time he made that list. I then replaced in as scum after I got Vigged.
Ah. Well, that makes the second "pattern" - WoD listing a scumbuddy amongst his "most suspicious" people even less of a pattern. Three times doing it, 2 times not. So, like 60%, sort of. That's certainly not condemning.
The other one, which was the one I was referring to when I said the implications were troubling if true, still seems to hold, however, in as far as I can tell every time WoD did a list of who he thought was Townie-looking he would throw a scumbuddy in there too. Of course, this only happened in like 3 games over the past 2+ years that I can find though, so it's still not exactly conclusive, but it appears consistent.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
What I'm trying to get at is, could the kill attempt still be "successful" in as much as it was not role-blocked, but the target not die because of something like a Doc protect and would this not trigger your Unlock? The mafia "path to freedom" ability in the first post says "you will attempt to kill your target" so, it seems like there is a fine line reading there where one could "successfully attempt" to kill, but not actually kill, and this might not count as a "failure."
Obviously if your Unlock only triggers on role-blocks this is significant. I guess I'm trying to see if there is some kind of "what failure means" loophole here.
Relatedly, if anyone else wants to volunteer that they attempted to use an ability last Night, and it failed - you don't have to say what it was - this might be a good time to say so.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Get serious, do you actually believe think Zinda would give the mafia a random chance NK? Not in a million years.
That wasn't really what I meant to get at. I meant given that The Gambler role had protection from random abilities it's highly likely that there are one or more abilities out there that do something randomly. Maybe somebody out there is a random roleblocker/motivator. My point is is that the possibility that Asension wasn't blocked is, IMO, not negligible.
I took no action last Night. I can only use Day actions.
It seems now possible to me that we have eliminated the Mafia threat and are dealing with some other kind of enemy. (Maybe just the Neutral, maybe something else in addition.)
Also, I can vote now and I unlocked an ability. However, I will get an additional unlock if I do not vote today. Therefore, I will not vote unless it is important or I am the needed vote for a lynch I believe in.
Correction: the first pargraph of my penultimate post should read "IIRC, dC's role is the one with the most number of locks with a single unlock per day/night cycle"
@Eco: then please explain it to me? Plus, it's not about the quantity of locks. I have 5 myself, but I can unlock as much as 4 per day/night cycle. I'm interested to know how his role can take the whole game to be fully unlocked, and what benefits will that bring after lying to us for 2 straight days (and choosing to disclose it now)
I have 9 locks too, but I could potentially be completely unlocked by Day 4 depending on how things went.
Elaborate. Why didn't you trust him? You voted a bunch of people yesterday, but not Asenion IIRC, so why him? How would roleblocking him check for vote-related shenanigans?
I really haven't trusted him since Day One. I thought he was trying to fly under the radar and not getting any Night Action taken against him. If we have any informational roles, I didn't think he would've been an apt target. He kept on saying he was unlocking his abilities to get a vote. I thought he was lying. Turns out, he was lying about something. To what effect or for what purpose we don't really know.
The roleblock feature was not the only reason I targeted him. Like I said, there is another detriment to my role. And, like I said, this is the reason I didn't target you last night, Ecophagy.
This is true, Arnnaria has voiced distrust of me multiple times this game and this action is not out of character. I guess I'm actually glad I have a Day ability now, because he can't block that.
*Snip* (Not quoting the whole post because it's bloody long. *Snip* I disagree. I'll give you that later in the game, somewhere in D2, Asenion's posting did pick up a bit. But for almost all of D1 he was hiding behind not having a vote, saying he didn't know how to contribute without one. The thing is, Asenion is apparently more clever than that. He's smart enough to play a long con to unlock his abilities, but he couldn't figure out how to contribute without a vote? I just don't buy it at all.
I also disagree that saying "I'm town" isn't a scum tell. Maybe saying it once or twice isn't bad. He said it like seven times, always accompanied with an "I can't vote". I'm having a hard time putting into words why that's awful without repeating myself. See above in my response to ced.
I'll come clean with you, I'm just not that great of town player. Ecophage already knows this but I might as well tell everyone else. I'm not actually a complete noob.* I've played Mafia for a while elsewhere. I also play Magic though and noticed you guys had a mafia forum. I figured it would be fun to play the noob for a game, so I've just been kind of posting stream-of-consciousness of whatever sounded good at the time without putting a lot of time into reviewing my posts. I've also been in finals, which has been the biggest cause of low contributing. Yes I've been hiding behind not voting, but that's because I've been studying and haven't had time to make cases. (I also consider Day 1 to be a random lynch. I figured my only job Day 1 is to analyze WHY someone gets lynched, and not worry so much about who gets lynched - which is part of what led me to Guardman who was one of the latest people to vote for Wrath_of_Dog and for one of the weakest reasons.) Finals end Wednesday and I'll probably kick this game into high gear the last half of December.
I wasn't joking about it being fun to be found scummy. This lets me respond easily and produce content without spending a ton of time looking things up and quoting to make cases. I can just defend myself with the truth now and I'm pretty sure you guys won't lynch me, so I don't feel any pressure.
@Eco: If I get a chance I'll help you with that, but I do have restrictions and it might not work out for a few phases.
*Did any of you really believe that someone could keep up with this game's politics, complex roles, and strong personalities without having ever played a game of Mafia before?
It tracks them the following Night. It's like a delayed Tracker and basically made me take an extra Day to start working. I plan to always fire it near the end of the Phase, so it will be similar to a Night ability anyway.
Not making cases is because of finals and being busy. Not voting is because I wanted unlocks. I always tried to make my vote and opinions clear though. I don't like to make promises of my time that I can't guarantee to keep, but I have a partial case on Guardman that I should finish late in the week after finals.
And that's another claim. We've got two(three?) protectors and an investigator claimed now minimum. I don't know if anyone has totaled up all the claimed roles, and I haven't really been keeping track as well as I should, but that is a LOT of information in the thread. I know I was part of the problem here, (Although my plan was always to breadcrumb/claim the weak Locksmith role while keeping the rest hidden.) but the information bleed this game has been insane. I might go back and total up all the claimed information at some point and see if any of it could be useful. As long as the information is out there, there might be a way to work together more effectively. Let me think on it. In the meantime, no more claims please.
Claim has nothing to do with alignment and I would have no reason to lie about it. The OP and my role both describe that players only get to use one ability per Day/Night cycle regardless of whether it's a Day or Night ability.
You didn't address what I mentioned before. You seemingly could have used an ability last night AND today since these are different day/night cycles. Is this wrong?
I could have used an ability last Night... If I had anything unlocked to use. Role Cop is locked and Tracker is a Day ability. As for being a Neutral, I fully support you guys lynching me when you have no more use for me. I can confirm my abilities functioning fairly easily though, and I don't think my role fits very well on a neutral who's win condition is to unlock all his locks.
Just some waffling here. Asenion claims he was not voting due to studying; then he claims to not voting because he wants the unlocks.
Asenion claims he only has day abilities. Then he claims he has an ability that he could use during Night if it was unlocked.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
All I know is that someone failed last night and I got an unlock.
There was no Night Kill last night.
So, I am making the assumption that the Night Kill "failed" for some reason. Every time an ability fails, I get a PM from the mod. I received one PM last night that one ability failed. Whether or not it was because I blocked the NK or some other protective role or "kill immunity", I do not know.
Just some waffling here. Asenion claims he was not voting due to studying; then he claims to not voting because he wants the unlocks.
Asenion claims he only has day abilities. Then he claims he has an ability that he could use during Night if it was unlocked.
Clarification on my way to my final. Not voting because of unlocks. Not making cases because of studying. Two different things that shouldn't be confused.
Only Day abilities currently unlocked. Saying I can only use Day actions is the truth unless/until I unlock the Role Cop ability.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
(3) Star Trek Myriad Universes II - In this game WoD does do a big list. It's Here. Under "Town to Townish" were Red Omega and Sepiriel. Scumbuddies. Under "Scummy" were three people, including Iso - Scumbuddy.
Actually, I was town at the time he made that list. I then replaced in as scum after I got Vigged.
Ah. Well, that makes the second "pattern" - WoD listing a scumbuddy amongst his "most suspicious" people even less of a pattern. Three times doing it, 2 times not. So, like 60%, sort of. That's certainly not condemning.
The other one, which was the one I was referring to when I said the implications were troubling if true, still seems to hold, however, in as far as I can tell every time WoD did a list of who he thought was Townie-looking he would throw a scumbuddy in there too. Of course, this only happened in like 3 games over the past 2+ years that I can find though, so it's still not exactly conclusive, but it appears consistent.
I'm gonna be honest here -- that's a hell of a sweet theory, and given WoD's apparent problems playing around his own meta, it's certainly got a little weight to it. At the same time, even as you say you can't see Arnnaria as scum this game, I'm the same way with Caex. He's been one of my towniest reads from Day 1, and I just can't see it. I dunno what to think about your point, honestly. There have been -points- where I could see Arnnaria as scum, but they've only ever been that: points. Overall, his play has come across as town to me. I guess I'm going to ostrich this one and stick my head in the sand -- I can't see either of them as scum =/
This whole thing with Asenion makes me sick to my stomach. This is one of those situations where I want to lynch him even beyond his alignment, just for his attitude towards the game. Like, I honestly feel that even ignoring his alignment (which I do feel that he is scum, still), he's just too untrustworthy to let live. I ran into this in Checks, too, and I haven't yet come up with a suitable way to balance it. I'm to the point where I want to say that even those who see Asenion as town should want him lynched, just for how damaging he's being. We've got two scum dead already, and there wasn't a NK last night. We're far enough ahead that we can excise this blight from our midst.
Just so we're clear, I DO think that he's scum. But, at this point, I think I would support an Asenion lynch even if I thought him town. I will only suffer being lied to for so long. And how do we know that he's telling the truth about -anything-, exactly? What credibility does he have? People other than myself have commented on the dubious nature of his claim. I was under the impression that when you catch someone in a lie in a game of Mafia, you lynch them.
I dunno. I need to take a step back and try to keep my personal feelings from getting into the game too much. Manders yelled at me in Checks about that, and as I'm typing this, I'm finding that I'm still having that problem.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
All I know is that someone failed last night and I got an unlock.
There was no Night Kill last night.
So, I am making the assumption that the Night Kill "failed" for some reason. Every time an ability fails, I get a PM from the mod. I received one PM last night that one ability failed. Whether or not it was because I blocked the NK or some other protective role or "kill immunity", I do not know.
Well I'm perfectly ready to accept that it was a failed NK that gave you your Unlock, I'm just trying to suss out if there are any other possibilities. You see what I'm saying with the way the Mafia NK ability reads? But if no one else steps up to say "Hey, my ability failed last Night..." then pretty much either (1) it was the scum NK or (2) it may not have been the scum NK, but it was some other scum ability, which still potentially narrows down who they are.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
All I know is that someone failed last night and I got an unlock.
There was no Night Kill last night.
So, I am making the assumption that the Night Kill "failed" for some reason. Every time an ability fails, I get a PM from the mod. I received one PM last night that one ability failed. Whether or not it was because I blocked the NK or some other protective role or "kill immunity", I do not know.
So I've been thinking about Asenion's claim and I went back to look at previous claims/roles in this game. I'm not sure if it's because we don't have the flavor of his role, but Asenion's claim seems disjointed compared to the other roles.
WoD The Gambler - flavorful active and passive ability.
dC The Druid - mirrored abilities with an unlock ability that is almost an inverse.
EtR The Conductor - role that's a play on words with abilities that interlock. Actually my favorite role so far for the wordplay.
Shark claimed The Paladin - mirrored abilities connected by flavor.
AsianI claimed a bodyguard - no flavor given to tie things together, but first two abilities are inverse of each other.
My own role has one or more abilities that tie into the flavor and one or more that tie in mechanically.
So looking over Asenion's claim I'm just not sure how it fits together. A delayed day tracker + night rolecop is a little weird but I'm sure they could be tied together somehow (a private eye who breaks into houses during the night, perhaps?). What gets me is the unlock passive ability. I don't see how not voting can be tied into the other abilities. It certainly can't be mechanical like dC's or AsianI's.
@Asenion
Could you provide your role name and the names of your abilities?
If people don't stop trying to lynch other people based of flavour gaming and claims, I am going to have a stroke.
I think the big problem is that the previous roles/claims have all had an elegance to them. Asenion's claim feels clunky. The abilities don't tie together mechanically with the restriction on the tracker ability. I'm struggling to come up with a way to connect the unlock ability flavorfully to the other abilities.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
All I know is that someone failed last night and I got an unlock.
There was no Night Kill last night.
So, I am making the assumption that the Night Kill "failed" for some reason. Every time an ability fails, I get a PM from the mod. I received one PM last night that one ability failed. Whether or not it was because I blocked the NK or some other protective role or "kill immunity", I do not know.
Are you SURE you didn't get an unlock on Night 1?
Um, where in there does it say I didn't??
I got two unlocks night one. I don't see where you're drawing the idea that I got zero.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
All I know is that someone failed last night and I got an unlock.
There was no Night Kill last night.
So, I am making the assumption that the Night Kill "failed" for some reason. Every time an ability fails, I get a PM from the mod. I received one PM last night that one ability failed. Whether or not it was because I blocked the NK or some other protective role or "kill immunity", I do not know.
Are you SURE you didn't get an unlock on Night 1?
Um, where in there does it say I didn't??
I got two unlocks night one. I don't see where you're drawing the idea that I got zero.
Ah, never mind. I thought you said somewhere that you only got one unlock Night 2 and didn't get any Night 1.
If people don't stop trying to lynch other people based of flavour gaming and claims, I am going to have a stroke.
I think the big problem is that the previous roles/claims have all had an elegance to them. Asenion's claim feels clunky. The abilities don't tie together mechanically with the restriction on the tracker ability. I'm struggling to come up with a way to connect the unlock ability flavorfully to the other abilities.
I sent a PM to Zindabad with the details of my role name, flavor, and ability names. I'm awaiting his approval before posting it so I don't break any game rules by accident - I don't want to come too close to PM quoting.
The short version is that I'm a sneaky person who likes to stay hidden in the shadows and all my abilities have to do with that.
@SilverSihhe: I'm sorry that you feel personally offended that you were lied to. However, this is Mafia and lies happen a lot. This may not be be a healthy game for you if such things bother you greatly. I lied for what I considered to be a strategic gain and explained my reasons for doing so. I also told the truth when I felt the lie no longer served a purpose. I do not think policy lynches are a good idea and I do not think anything I have done is toxic to the game.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
On the side, I looked back and I noticed something that really bugs me about D_V now. He basically discredits the WoD wagon a lot. He first says that the wagon had people who actively stated that "were not even paying attention to the game" which basically discredits the wagon or a veiled shot at Tanarin, who was hounding him early, as well as the "I hate meta arguments" and "behavior afterwards is justifiable". Then he goes after Arnn after the policy-lynch incident, so another shot at the wagon. He only then votes after WoD disappears forever.
So maybe the DRey wagon has ground?
If so, AsianI is more town than before, Guardman is prob town, Tan is prob town.
I'll read into DRey later. Also would like any rebuttals from him on ced's case.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Almost forgot: a reminder that I am V:LA 14-22nd December (also possibly tomorrow)
I'd also like to request that, if you decide on a lynch on/after the 20th, you could wait a couple of days for me to get back and give me a chance to hammer.
You mean on/before the 20th?
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
I got permission from Zindabad. So here's my ability names and flavor:
I am the Ghost. I spent years hunting raw talent and developed tracking skills. I use mind powers that lock/unlock memories/abilities. I'm good at studying and learning about my targets before facing them. My abilities are named:
Light Fingers - Role cop: steal their files.
Shadow - Delayed Tracker: Follow people without being seen.
Synapse Shock/Stun - lock/unlock people
Spectre - Gain unlocks when you are unseen
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
Hmm... Interesting case on DRey that ced has going there. After reading that, I took another look at the two real content posts that he as posted today.
I've reread the first 180 posts and I think I can give my 2 cents here too.
First, it's safe to disregard "scum didn't do the NK on purpose", considering the game state (scum are 2 members short) this is not only unlikely but impossible, second, Arn has received ONE unlock, meaning only one ability NK has fizzled last night therefore only the NK, third, so far Asension is the only one confirmed to have been roleblocked last night.
While not conclusive, this is all very damming evidence, besides I don't remember Asension being in any kind of pressure yesterDay (good job Arnaria :thumbsup:), meaning it makes total sense for the scumteam to choose him to perform the NK.
While I dislike to see players lying I do agree that lying per se is not indicative of scum but I've noticed a completely different behaviour of this Asension and the early game Asension. Back there he was all "hey why are you voting? how do we kill people? What do I do now? I'm so clueless :uhh:". While now he's "heh, I've fooled all of you, I've been lying from the start and managed to unlock my abilities because of that, I know very well what I'm doing here :cool2:". It's like a totally different person, and I don't think feigning stupidity is a town tell, in fact I do it all the time as scum so I'm wary of such ploys.
TLDR: Asession is the lynch for toDay and chances are high he will flip scum I'm fine with either Xyre, Axel or Arnaria getting an unlock.
@Mod votecount please.
The first thing he talks about here is the lack of a kill. He basically restates everything we know so far (There is no NK, Arnn had a lock unlock.) He also throws out that Asension was RBed as if it was a fact. Last I checked, Arnn was not confirmed town, thus we can't confirm one way or the other if he is telling the truth. Only way I can see a person being this confident is if they are either a cop or not town. I am positive given the roles that have been revealed so far that it is not the former in play here.
The next big thing is when he addresses the Asension wagon proper. I have no problem with the first sentence, as it is true that sometimes town does lie (Traps anyone?) He then goes on about his behavior and how it changed suddenly between the beginning and now. This normally would look like he is scum hunting except for the fact that Asension at this point has already admitted that he was lying about being a newb at Mafia and that it was one entire gambit. He then throws in the sentence at the end that he fakes stupidity all the time as scum, as to give him a reason to be on the wagon, as he already cut himself off using lying as a reason.
He finally says that Asension is the lynch for today, yet wait... he does not throw a vote on Asension at all here. If a person believe that someone should be the lynch, isn't it proper to throw down a vote if you know the wagon is not near lynch yet? This shows me he wants to appear town (Researching into the current wagon) yet does not want to commit a vote.
It is also odd that he is willing to have the day end when he was so adamant about it being day so he can re-read. One would think that if he needed/wanted the time to re-read, he would be more reserved or even not chime in so fast on the current wagon.
@DRey
It's not conclusive that Asension was blocked. Arnnaria gets an unlock when any ability fails, not just abilities he blocks. It is conceivable that Arnnaria blocked Asension (who didn't perform any abilities) the NK failed for some other reason (protective role, random chance, etc.), and Arnnaria got his unlock from the NK failing.
I do think it's more likely Asension did try to perform the NK and Arnnaria managed to block him, but the other scenario isn't a remote possibility.
Get serious, do you actually believe think Zinda would give the mafia a random chance NK? Not in a million years. Besides, AI is our claimed protective role and if he's alive it means he's failed to protect anyone (I still think he's scum btw so the chances of he protecting town are nil). I agree there's the chance of we still having a doc out there (one that's not scum :D) but we should consider only the things we do know or are probable, not things that could been possible but are unlikely.
He attempts to make another push on Asension's wagon by first off ruling out a random fail NK (Again a fair point,) but also ruling out the chance that there was a protection from AI or another. While it is true that AI is just a bodyguard, he discounts the fact that AI may have unlocked his other ability (His one shot Kill immunity.) He then throws in that he thinks AI is scum as well. One has to wonder why he thinks this from his 180 posts he claims to have read,180 posts that had no AI in them at all, nor really the person he replaced either. He pretty much uses this post to throw mud on another player while still pushing his wagon of choice.
I'm at the airport right now, about to head home from vacation. I haven't been rereading ( ) but I think I have a pretty good grasp of the game state anyway.
Also, this tactic of "ohh I'm so confused", "ohh I don't want to participate in the biggest wagon", "ohh Shark was on L-1 but unvote and now create a case on another guy who has zero votes atm despite knowing deadline comes in a few days just to divide everyone else" is the new trend of scum. I'm pretty certain scum is now trying the hardest to push the game in a no-lynch.
DRey doesn't name any wagons here, but it's pretty obvious at the time that he was talking about the wagon on Eron. Notice how DRey doesn't actually give names of people who he thinks are the scum in this scenario: he's just slinging mud at the wagoners in general.
This is an excellent point, especially considering I asked DRey twice to explain who he thought was scum pushing a no-lynch and failed to elicit any response.
I'm not convinced that DRey isn't just being standard DRey. Granted, I'm not thrilled that he tried to call himself confirmed town yesterDay, but I want to make my Guardman case before we decide a lynch.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
If Arn got an unlock confirmation message, according to what he said, that means Asenion used an ability last Night and is lying. Which is why I'm asking. Because with a missing Nightkill, THAT is the kind of lie worth lynching someone over.
Even with unlock confirmation, we don't know why the nightkill ability failed.
This. It is possible, with this quantity of people, that there is someone else out there that was able to otherwise affect the NK.
@Eco: Can you clarify something I was wondering? Is your unlock contingent on a detrimental ability being successful on you, or just that it targets you? If you want to hold off on this, I understand.
It's fine if you don't want to answer, but I wasn't sure if you missed it, since you didn't address it.
I've reread the first 180 posts and I think I can give my 2 cents here too.
First, it's safe to disregard "scum didn't do the NK on purpose", considering the game state (scum are 2 members short) this is not only unlikely but impossible, second, Arn has received ONE unlock, meaning only one ability NK has fizzled last night therefore only the NK, third, so far Asension is the only one confirmed to have been roleblocked last night.
While it's a pretty safe assumption that the scum didn't opt to not NK, that doesn't automatically implicate Asenion. As discussed previously, Arnnaria's confirmation of a successful roleblock =/= Asenion tried to do something. It just means that Arnnaria wasn't blocked in turn and that Asenion wasn't untargetable for any reason. While Asenion may have tried to perform a NK, this looks like an attempt to run up Asenion on something that had already been discussed as unconfirmable.
While not conclusive, this is all very damming evidence, besides I don't remember Asension being in any kind of pressure yesterDay (good job Arnaria :thumbsup:), meaning it makes total sense for the scumteam to choose him to perform the NK.
Is it, though? Also, Asenion may not have been under pressure, but Arnnaria was not the only one suspicious of him. The "good job Arnnaria :thumbsup:" looks out of place here to me, too.
While I dislike to see players lying I do agree that lying per se is not indicative of scum but I've noticed a completely different behaviour of this Asension and the early game Asension. Back there he was all "hey why are you voting? how do we kill people? What do I do now? I'm so clueless :uhh:". While now he's "heh, I've fooled all of you, I've been lying from the start and managed to unlock my abilities because of that, I know very well what I'm doing here :cool2:". It's like a totally different person, and I don't think feigning stupidity is a town tell, in fact I do it all the time as scum so I'm wary of such ploys.
His behavior is different because he's not lying about who he is any more. While part of me wanted to lynch Asenion based on unnecessary lies that started before the game did, similar to SilverSihhe, the fact that he started then makes it not a scum tell at all - even if he is scum now, he would have no way of knowing when he signed up that he would end up being scum. The fact that you do it "all the time as scum" doesn't even make sense. Are you saying that you pretend to be a new player every time you join a game?
TLDR: Asession is the lynch for toDay and chances are high he will flip scum I'm fine with either Xyre, Axel or Arnaria getting an unlock.
@Mod votecount please.
I disagree here. Also, this last part doesn't make sense. Asenion was offering to perform an unlock on his way out as a courtesy. If he is scum, why would he unlock someone who we want him to?
@DRey
It's not conclusive that Asension was blocked. Arnnaria gets an unlock when any ability fails, not just abilities he blocks. It is conceivable that Arnnaria blocked Asension (who didn't perform any abilities) the NK failed for some other reason (protective role, random chance, etc.), and Arnnaria got his unlock from the NK failing.
I do think it's more likely Asension did try to perform the NK and Arnnaria managed to block him, but the other scenario isn't a remote possibility.
Get serious, do you actually believe think Zinda would give the mafia a random chance NK? Not in a million years. Besides, AI is our claimed protective role and if he's alive it means he's failed to protect anyone (I still think he's scum btw so the chances of he protecting town are nil). I agree there's the chance of we still having a doc out there (one that's not scum :D) but we should consider only the things we do know or are probable, not things that could been possible but are unlikely.
Disregarding the random snippet about random chance, the fact that you're calling AI "our claimed protective role" makes it seem like you're either:
a) making a blanket assumption that there's only 1 protective role in a 21 person game with complex roles
b) trying to run up Asenion in a method that will hopefully cause other potential protective roles to claim
There's a bit of a misrep in here, in that I didn't actually ask for an unlock. I put my name up for consideration for an unlock. There are certainly other people who should be considered (Xyre, Axelrod, and Ecophagy first and foremost).
Just confused then, why you would put your name up there when you seem to think the others are obvious considerations. Why muddy the waters?
Because there was discussion of unlocking protective roles. If Asenion was going to choose (or be directed, more likely) to unlock protective roles rather than those of the super-townie players, there should be more options than just one or two people.
The downside of this, as Asenion has noted, is that people have started spewing information into the thread. :\
At this stage, Xyre had posted his Eron case, and Asian also had a couple of votes, but the Shark wagon was mostly intact. DRey suggests that we don't form any more wagons because it's anti-town.
Yes, in a vacuum that was the correct procedure at that point, with the knowledge we have now I know the correct lynch is Eron. Can you understand this? Sometimes you playing the correct way leads to your defeat, while playing suboptimally gives victory, that doesn't mean the one should play suboptimally just in case.
DRey doesn't name any wagons here, but it's pretty obvious at the time that he was talking about the wagon on Eron. Notice how DRey doesn't actually give names of people who he thinks are the scum in this scenario: he's just slinging mud at the wagoners in general.
Nope, I was not particularly talking about Eron, I was talking in general, and it's obvious. Creating new wagons when we are less than 48hrs into the deadline is anti-town in a vacuum. That being said in retrospect the wagon was a good wagon, and we can gather much intel from it. It's easy and I'm surprised you haven't done any analysis on that, who tried to slow down and deflect from Eron? (notice I didn't do this, because I had no knowledge of Eron's play at that point, and I still don't in a way).
At this stage, there's still a couple of days to go before the deadline, and the Eron lynch is actually moving on quite quickly. This is a pathetic response to the wagon, really: a protown-looking sentiment ("unnecessary claims are bad") twisted into a rationale for cutting short discussion at a critical point.
Note also how DRey never ever gives any explicit reasoning for why Eron might be town. He just plays it down without ever looking like he's truly coming against it.
Because I was not truly against it (I still haven't read anything about him, and I didn't read any walls as I had no idea about what Xyre was talking about), you got that right. Also repeat with me: "unnecessary claims are bad", "unnecessary claims are bad", "unnecessary claims are bad",... a thousand times over, I always said this and I will keep saying this forever, because I believe in this.
Now, this is all a little dependent on whether DRey was deflecting onto Asian/Shark at the same time as he was brushing Eron under the rug i.e. dependent on Asian and Shark being townies, but I'm reasonably sure on the latter in any case.
However, it is inarguable that DRey was trying his best to make the last-minute Eron lynch not happen for, in my opinion, no adequate reason.
Vote DRey
Your opinion is correct, I had no reason to lynch him, neither protect him and that's what I commented about his wagon: nothing. I'm town, when I'm town I say whatever comes into my mind, I don't really care about you guys will think about my opinions because they are my own, I believe in them and I always say what I believe when I'm town. It's funny because I only did what any reasonable townie in my place would do:
a)Try to ensure there will be a lynch, any lynch (remember I had almost nil undestanding of the game at that point, so I couldn't give opinion about any wagon)
b)To stop the bleed of info (we had like 2 claims in less than 24 hours and less than 48 into deadline).
Tell me hero, if you were in my position what would YOU do? Push for a massclaim? Defend a no-lynch because you aren't sure AI, Shark or Eron is scum since you haven't been in the game for the last two months?
Also why do you think Shark is scum? I'm pretty sure he's scum from what I'm rereading so far. Related question, when I flip town who's scum?
The first thing he talks about here is the lack of a kill. He basically restates everything we know so far (There is no NK, Arnn had a lock unlock.) He also throws out that Asension was RBed as if it was a fact. Last I checked, Arnn was not confirmed town, thus we can't confirm one way or the other if he is telling the truth.
I trust Arn for quite some reasons, let me expand for you.
1)I trust Xyre and Axel, I remember both of them saying good things about Arn
2)Arn he was pretty townie from my talks with him yesterDay
3)The way he reacted to Asension is VERY pro-town, I find very unlikely scum would charge into a player like that knowing he would be in a very bad spot if Asension would flip town (unless it's a bussing gambit, but those are rare and with 2 member less I find kinda impossible for then to play like this unless Arn is a Kpaca gimmick :p).
Only way I can see a person being this confident is if they are either a cop or not town. I am positive given the roles that have been revealed so far that it is not the former in play here.
Nice fishing, but I will not reveal anything about my role, except that I'm town. ALso please don't ever mention the cop anymore if you are town, good things never come from it.
The next big thing is when he addresses the Asension wagon proper. I have no problem with the first sentence, as it is true that sometimes town does lie (Traps anyone?) He then goes on about his behavior and how it changed suddenly between the beginning and now. This normally would look like he is scum hunting except for the fact that Asension at this point has already admitted that he was lying about being a newb at Mafia and that it was one entire gambit. He then throws in the sentence at the end that he fakes stupidity all the time as scum, as to give him a reason to be on the wagon, as he already cut himself off using lying as a reason.
I loled here, so you conclude I'm scumhunting but not really, then say I have a good reason for knowing scum likes to feign stupidity then my reason is not that good. Please make up your mind.
He finally says that Asension is the lynch for today, yet wait... he does not throw a vote on Asension at all here. If a person believe that someone should be the lynch, isn't it proper to throw down a vote if you know the wagon is not near lynch yet? This shows me he wants to appear town (Researching into the current wagon) yet does not want to commit a vote.
Please reread last sentence of that very same post, I will wait, then come back and apologize. Kthanksbye.
It is also odd that he is willing to have the day end when he was so adamant about it being day so he can re-read. One would think that if he needed/wanted the time to re-read, he would be more reserved or even not chime in so fast on the current wagon.
I said this? Cool because I didn't know it nor it's in what I believe, this Day has less than a week and I'm far from finishing my reread, but I dislike lurkers and non-entities players therefore I want to contribute to the game as fast as possible.
TLDR: The day is far from over, but I find very unlikely someone can top Asension as the lynch for toDay considering what happened.
He attempts to make another push on Asension's wagon by first off ruling out a random fail NK (Again a fair point,) but also ruling out the chance that there was a protection from AI or another. While it is true that AI is just a bodyguard, he discounts the fact that AI may have unlocked his other ability (His one shot Kill immunity.) He then throws in that he thinks AI is scum as well. One has to wonder why he thinks this from his 180 posts he claims to have read,180 posts that had no AI in them at all, nor really the person he replaced either. He pretty much uses this post to throw mud on another player while still pushing his wagon of choice.
Unvote Vote Drey
I have no knowledge of how AI unlocks his locks, AI is alive nor I believe him to be town, don't you agree I have zero reason to believe he could have prevented a NK and lived? Also weren't you reading the game yesterDay? My belief AI is scum has nothing to do with how Charm played(I think I've only read ONE post of him so far and I didn't found it scummy).
Also for the third time you say my reason is pretty good but conclude I'm scummy independently of that, this is very strange imho.
This is an excellent point, especially considering I asked DRey twice to explain who he thought was scum pushing a no-lynch and failed to elicit any response.
Not you have failed to reread the game but you have failed to reread yesterDay too? I have already answered this, you do need to reread, actually you don't because I'm pretty sure you are scum and already knows everything you need to know.
I'm not convinced that DRey isn't just being standard DRey. Granted, I'm not thrilled that he tried to call himself confirmed town yesterDay, but I want to make my Guardman case before we decide a lynch.
I did this? Where?
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Part of me is sad that DRey wasn't vigged last night. Now I feel obligated to go read and re-read all his stuff which I had been putting off doing.
He's also got this attitude which doesn't come across as scummy to me - but I was also burned bad by DRey once, in part due to a style that read as genuine to me, so he's going to get a lot less leeway in that regard this time.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Part of me is sad that DRey wasn't vigged last night. Now I feel obligated to go read and re-read all his stuff which I had been putting off doing.
He's also got this attitude which doesn't come across as scummy to me - but I was also burned bad by DRey once, in part due to a style that read as genuine to me, so he's going to get a lot less leeway in that regard this time.
I laughed at the first paragraph.
DRey's attitude I've noticed is always genuine no matter the alignment because the best way to put it is he plays angry. His is a very emotional style that always seems and probably is genuine. With DRey especially you have to read the intent behind his actions.
Part of me is sad that DRey wasn't vigged last night. Now I feel obligated to go read and re-read all his stuff which I had been putting off doing.
I assure you I feel the same, I'm seriously being bullied here and you know what's the worst?
a)mostly by town (because after losing two scum, there's probably not many scum out there and they certainly aren't eager to spearhead a town mislynch)
b)mostly by players that have a LOT of experience with me, so they know what I'm not scummy.
c)I'm town
d)I have like 10 posts?
e)I haven't even finished rereading the game, so I'm being attacked for things I don't even know about.
He's also got this attitude which doesn't come across as scummy to me - but I was also burned bad by DRey once, in part due to a style that read as genuine to me, so he's going to get a lot less leeway in that regard this time.
To tell the truth I play the same as town or scum, so it's kinda hard to catch me with the hand in the cookie jar, but I understand what you are talking about.
That being said, please do, please reread me, because saying I tried to deflect from Eron when the only thing I was doing was trying to avoid a no-lynch (a very real possibility at that point) and a mass claim it's absurd and I'm pretty sure townCed would not push for this crap, that's why I was thinking he's scum. But apparently Eron hammering himself somehow confirmed Ced as town because Ced has to hammer or something like that to get his powers.
In a related news I've reached a point were you are being attacked for craptastic reasons, boy I'm a disappoint because you are clearly the towniest in the early game.
DRey's attitude I've noticed is always genuine no matter the alignment because the best way to put it is he plays angry. His is a very emotional style that always seems and probably is genuine. With DRey especially you have to read the intent behind his actions.
Yup, I can confirm this as the truth.
EWP: I've just died in my other game, now I'm full time here so expect my reread to pick up speed.
I will also answer Cy next.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Yes, in a vacuum that was the correct procedure at that point, with the knowledge we have now I know the correct lynch is Eron. Can you understand this? Sometimes you playing the correct way leads to your defeat, while playing suboptimally gives victory, that doesn't mean the one should play suboptimally just in case.
Nope, I was not particularly talking about Eron, I was talking in general, and it's obvious. Creating new wagons when we are less than 48hrs into the deadline is anti-town in a vacuum. That being said in retrospect the wagon was a good wagon, and we can gather much intel from it. It's easy and I'm surprised you haven't done any analysis on that, who tried to slow down and deflect from Eron? (notice I didn't do this, because I had no knowledge of Eron's play at that point, and I still don't in a way).
Because I was not truly against it (I still haven't read anything about him, and I didn't read any walls as I had no idea about what Xyre was talking about), you got that right. Also repeat with me: "unnecessary claims are bad", "unnecessary claims are bad", "unnecessary claims are bad",... a thousand times over, I always said this and I will keep saying this forever, because I believe in this.
A whole lot of what you said was basically in a vacuum, which is fine (in a vacuum), but with ~5 days, you can at least read D2 or at least glance through some of it to get a read. Yes it's bad to vote w/o opinions, but isn't it also bad to not contribute. I think you should have at least made an opinion, that way you could help contribute and help prevent unnecessary claims.
So instead of helping contribute to getting a lynch done, which you've stated is better than no-lynching, and decide to keep your hands clean and not actively push one way or another and instead settle for pushing me, when if you read the past posts, would have shown you that no more additional support would have come to that wagon. Also, in the time period you joined, you could glance through ~100 posts a day or so. ~500 posts would be enough to get an opinion on AsianI, myself, and Eron, so I mean you could have been proactive. Instead you sat around and was as much contribution to the lynch as Asenion's "vote". Basically, town was down 2 votes having to push a wagon.
You cannot complain about town having too many unnecessary claims when you are not actively participating in preventing them from happening. It would be like basically going on Facebook and hitting "Like if you support ______" instead of actually contributing time or money to actually support that cause.
Vote DRey
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
If you unlock someone's lock does it go into effect right away? And is this ability locked to begin with or have you already had it? If it does go into effect right away and if you have it unlocked, showing that you can unlock someone's lock will be a great stride into my understanding of what exactly went down last night.
Can someone explain to me how this guy is still alive? Since I've joined and from the beggining of the game all his posts scream scum to me.
And if you guys believe "there's 4 scum out there" is town behavior you seriously need a psychiatrist. I have been playing mafia for like 2 years, have played in all Zinda's large games, and I don't even remember how many scum were in Seasons (and I was part of the scumteam!), this kind of mindset can't come from a town POV until near the endgame when we are nearing POE range. And to the people that says "but considering the size of this game it's very unlikely there's 4 scum out there so Shark was wrong and therefore town". Have you never seen a scum townsliping before? Shark is certainly experienced enough to pull a stunt like that.
Heck even I did it very recently when I instructed one of my scumbuddies (a newbie player) to ask "hey guys what's this QT thing you guys are talking about?" in basic 66.
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The game is not being dumbed down. Control is doing fine; Draw-Go is not the only kind of control. Aggro is doing fine; Red Deck Wins is not the only kind of aggro. Creature combat is an important core concept and belongs in every color. Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Can someone explain to me how this guy is still alive? Since I've joined and from the beggining of the game all his posts scream scum to me.
And if you guys believe "there's 4 scum out there" is town behavior you seriously need a psychiatrist. I have been playing mafia for like 2 years, have played in all Zinda's large games, and I don't even remember how many scum were in Seasons (and I was part of the scumteam!), this kind of mindset can't come from a town POV until near the endgame when we are nearing POE range. And to the people that says "but considering the size of this game it's very unlikely there's 4 scum out there so Shark was wrong and therefore town". Have you never seen a scum townsliping before? Shark is certainly experienced enough to pull a stunt like that.
Heck even I did it very recently when I instructed one of my scumbuddies (a newbie player) to ask "hey guys what's this QT thing you guys are talking about?" in basic 66.
Maybe if you caught up all the way and actually read how my wagon develop, how people were pushing me as scum for reasons that could go either way, then maybe you might see how I am town.
And you are targetting me as scum for recent posts, so what makes them scummy to you? And you are using a RVS post? You post just makes me laugh.
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"Ask the right questions in the right way and truth is inevitable."
—Lazav
Can someone explain to me how this guy is still alive? Since I've joined and from the beggining of the game all his posts scream scum to me.
And if you guys believe "there's 4 scum out there" is town behavior you seriously need a psychiatrist. I have been playing mafia for like 2 years, have played in all Zinda's large games, and I don't even remember how many scum were in Seasons (and I was part of the scumteam!), this kind of mindset can't come from a town POV until near the endgame when we are nearing POE range. And to the people that says "but considering the size of this game it's very unlikely there's 4 scum out there so Shark was wrong and therefore town". Have you never seen a scum townsliping before? Shark is certainly experienced enough to pull a stunt like that.
Heck even I did it very recently when I instructed one of my scumbuddies (a newbie player) to ask "hey guys what's this QT thing you guys are talking about?" in basic 66.
So, just as soon as your wagon starts to heat up, you try to misdirect back on to Shark, of all people? The guy whose wagon we ran into the literal ground yesterDay, and who we didn't lynch after all of that attention?
DRey is definitely a very good lead for today...when I re-read yesterday, he stuck out the most as the one who didn't want EtR lynched. By couching it in not wanting a no-lynch, it was subtle enough to not be obvious.
But I had reasons for not coming out the gate swinging at him out of last night.
It only makes sense at this point to get him to claim range, however. And I still may be able to shed some light afterwards.
Unvote, Vote DRey
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
If you unlock someone's lock does it go into effect right away? And is this ability locked to begin with or have you already had it? If it does go into effect right away and if you have it unlocked, showing that you can unlock someone's lock will be a great stride into my understanding of what exactly went down last night.
The unlock happens immediately, but it won't block an ability they choose to use that phase or allow them to use another ability they wouldn't have been able to use.
I started the game with my locksmith skill unlocked, but it only applies when I target someone with an ability I have. With everything else locked, it's impossible for me to use it.
Here's the thing about that play: I'm willing to do it if I need to, but announcing to someone that I am unlocking their lock and tracking them that Night basically makes the Tracker part useless. So long as people believe me, I have no reason to waste a Night of Tracking to put forth evidence of my innocence.
I'm all caught up and finals are over. I'm also sick. My current reads leave me suspicious of Nis, Guardman, and a bit of Axelrod still. I think the DRey wagon is probably misplaced. He's clearly obnoxious, but that doesn't make him scummy. I don't intend to vote for him.
I've got a partial case on Guardman, I'll post that in another day or two.
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An accurate description of myself:
Quote from Megiddo »
You're the dude who just lies a lot and makes people hate you and then magically becomes town later, right?
I started the game with my locksmith skill unlocked, but it only applies when I target someone with an ability I have. With everything else locked, it's impossible for me to use it.
The bold just doesn't line up with your claim for me:
I am the Ghost. I spent years hunting raw talent and developed tracking skills. I use mind powers that lock/unlock memories/abilities. I'm good at studying and learning about my targets before facing them. My abilities are named:
Light Fingers - Role cop: steal their files.
Shadow - Delayed Tracker: Follow people without being seen.
Synapse Shock/Stun - lock/unlock people
Spectre - Gain unlocks when you are unseen
How can you follow someone without being seen while simultaneously shocking their minds? This comes back to the elegance thing I spoke of earlier. The roles/claims we already have are elegant. Yours has some flavor disconnect.
I know I'm flavorgaming here, and zindabad said that was a bad way to go, but your claim just feels off. You've teased it out over multiple posts, including your last with this new information about how your locksmith ability works, and your flavor just doesn't stand up to the quality of previous roles/claims.
I don't want to push for your lynch over flavor because I really am thinking I'm falling into the trap zindy warned us about, but I don't believe your claim in the slightest.
If you unlock someone's lock does it go into effect right away? And is this ability locked to begin with or have you already had it? If it does go into effect right away and if you have it unlocked, showing that you can unlock someone's lock will be a great stride into my understanding of what exactly went down last night.
The unlock happens immediately, but it won't block an ability they choose to use that phase or allow them to use another ability they wouldn't have been able to use.
I started the game with my locksmith skill unlocked, but it only applies when I target someone with an ability I have. With everything else locked, it's impossible for me to use it.
Here's the thing about that play: I'm willing to do it if I need to, but announcing to someone that I am unlocking their lock and tracking them that Night basically makes the Tracker part useless. So long as people believe me, I have no reason to waste a Night of Tracking to put forth evidence of my innocence.
I'm all caught up and finals are over. I'm also sick. My current reads leave me suspicious of Nis, Guardman, and a bit of Axelrod still. I think the DRey wagon is probably misplaced. He's clearly obnoxious, but that doesn't make him scummy. I don't intend to vote for him.
I've got a partial case on Guardman, I'll post that in another day or two.
And you're 100% sure that your abilities locks are unlocked right now?
This is an excellent point, especially considering I asked DRey twice to explain who he thought was scum pushing a no-lynch and failed to elicit any response.
Not you have failed to reread the game but you have failed to reread yesterDay too? I have already answered this, you do need to reread, actually you don't because I'm pretty sure you are scum and already knows everything you need to know.
@AI I have absolutely no idea, I haven't been following the game. Btw nice loaded question. I know the roles are randomized, I played in Seasons. The thing is, I think you are lying about the nature of your locks (in my role it's explicit detailed how my locks are unlocked) and that you "don't know if my power started unlocked or not" because Zinda told me this info when I received my role PM.
DRey: "Scum are trying to force a no-lynch! Don't change your votes away from main wagons!" AsianInvasion: "Which players are scum trying to force a no-lynch?"
DRey: "..." AsianInvasion: "Way to ignore my post."
DRey: "..." AsianInvasion: "Way to give Axelrod grief for ignoring your post when you did the same yourself." DRey: "I plead the Fifth."
You cannot complain about town having too many unnecessary claims when you are not actively participating in preventing them from happening. It would be like basically going on Facebook and hitting "Like if you support ______" instead of actually contributing time or money to actually support that cause.
Vote DRey
On that note, compare my behavior replacing in Day One with DRey's replacing in Day Two. I didn't try to change people's mind re: WoD's lynch even though I wanted to reread before it went through. However, DRey made a point to make his purely hypothetical position on claiming known despite having no knowledge of the thread to support his theoretical stance. Between stepping back to let knowledgeable people work and trying to dominate conversation while remaining ignorant, which of these seems like town play and which of these seems like scum play?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Even with unlock confirmation, we don't know why the nightkill ability failed.
@Eco: You're missing the point. What I am saying is that if Asenion DID take an action last Night and it was blocked, why would he lie about that unless it was the NK?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Oh sure, but we have no way of knowing whether he attempted an action or not.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
First, it's safe to disregard "scum didn't do the NK on purpose", considering the game state (scum are 2 members short) this is not only unlikely but impossible, second, Arn has received ONE unlock, meaning only one ability NK has fizzled last night therefore only the NK, third, so far Asension is the only one confirmed to have been roleblocked last night.
While not conclusive, this is all very damming evidence, besides I don't remember Asension being in any kind of pressure yesterDay (good job Arnaria :thumbsup:), meaning it makes total sense for the scumteam to choose him to perform the NK.
While I dislike to see players lying I do agree that lying per se is not indicative of scum but I've noticed a completely different behaviour of this Asension and the early game Asension. Back there he was all "hey why are you voting? how do we kill people? What do I do now? I'm so clueless :uhh:". While now he's "heh, I've fooled all of you, I've been lying from the start and managed to unlock my abilities because of that, I know very well what I'm doing here :cool2:". It's like a totally different person, and I don't think feigning stupidity is a town tell, in fact I do it all the time as scum so I'm wary of such ploys.
TLDR: Asession is the lynch for toDay and chances are high he will flip scum I'm fine with either Xyre, Axel or Arnaria getting an unlock.
@Mod votecount please.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
It's not conclusive that Asension was blocked. Arnnaria gets an unlock when any ability fails, not just abilities he blocks. It is conceivable that Arnnaria blocked Asension (who didn't perform any abilities) the NK failed for some other reason (protective role, random chance, etc.), and Arnnaria got his unlock from the NK failing.
I do think it's more likely Asension did try to perform the NK and Arnnaria managed to block him, but the other scenario isn't a remote possibility.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Because there was discussion of unlocking protective roles. If Asenion was going to choose (or be directed, more likely) to unlock protective roles rather than those of the super-townie players, there should be more options than just one or two people.
Not quite sure. I don't have a lot of strong scum reads after my Guardman case sputtered out.
Asenion's at the top of my list.
Iso's a distant second.
{Magic: The RPG}
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Ah. Well, that makes the second "pattern" - WoD listing a scumbuddy amongst his "most suspicious" people even less of a pattern. Three times doing it, 2 times not. So, like 60%, sort of. That's certainly not condemning.
The other one, which was the one I was referring to when I said the implications were troubling if true, still seems to hold, however, in as far as I can tell every time WoD did a list of who he thought was Townie-looking he would throw a scumbuddy in there too. Of course, this only happened in like 3 games over the past 2+ years that I can find though, so it's still not exactly conclusive, but it appears consistent.
@Arn: If the Mafia kill was prevented by something like a Doc. protect or a kill immunity, do you know if this would count as a "failure" for purposes of your Unlock Trigger?
What I'm trying to get at is, could the kill attempt still be "successful" in as much as it was not role-blocked, but the target not die because of something like a Doc protect and would this not trigger your Unlock? The mafia "path to freedom" ability in the first post says "you will attempt to kill your target" so, it seems like there is a fine line reading there where one could "successfully attempt" to kill, but not actually kill, and this might not count as a "failure."
Obviously if your Unlock only triggers on role-blocks this is significant. I guess I'm trying to see if there is some kind of "what failure means" loophole here.
Relatedly, if anyone else wants to volunteer that they attempted to use an ability last Night, and it failed - you don't have to say what it was - this might be a good time to say so.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
That wasn't really what I meant to get at. I meant given that The Gambler role had protection from random abilities it's highly likely that there are one or more abilities out there that do something randomly. Maybe somebody out there is a random roleblocker/motivator. My point is is that the possibility that Asension wasn't blocked is, IMO, not negligible.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Just some waffling here. Asenion claims he was not voting due to studying; then he claims to not voting because he wants the unlocks.
Asenion claims he only has day abilities. Then he claims he has an ability that he could use during Night if it was unlocked.
All I know is that someone failed last night and I got an unlock.
There was no Night Kill last night.
So, I am making the assumption that the Night Kill "failed" for some reason. Every time an ability fails, I get a PM from the mod. I received one PM last night that one ability failed. Whether or not it was because I blocked the NK or some other protective role or "kill immunity", I do not know.
Clarification on my way to my final. Not voting because of unlocks. Not making cases because of studying. Two different things that shouldn't be confused.
Only Day abilities currently unlocked. Saying I can only use Day actions is the truth unless/until I unlock the Role Cop ability.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
I'm gonna be honest here -- that's a hell of a sweet theory, and given WoD's apparent problems playing around his own meta, it's certainly got a little weight to it. At the same time, even as you say you can't see Arnnaria as scum this game, I'm the same way with Caex. He's been one of my towniest reads from Day 1, and I just can't see it. I dunno what to think about your point, honestly. There have been -points- where I could see Arnnaria as scum, but they've only ever been that: points. Overall, his play has come across as town to me. I guess I'm going to ostrich this one and stick my head in the sand -- I can't see either of them as scum =/
This whole thing with Asenion makes me sick to my stomach. This is one of those situations where I want to lynch him even beyond his alignment, just for his attitude towards the game. Like, I honestly feel that even ignoring his alignment (which I do feel that he is scum, still), he's just too untrustworthy to let live. I ran into this in Checks, too, and I haven't yet come up with a suitable way to balance it. I'm to the point where I want to say that even those who see Asenion as town should want him lynched, just for how damaging he's being. We've got two scum dead already, and there wasn't a NK last night. We're far enough ahead that we can excise this blight from our midst.
Just so we're clear, I DO think that he's scum. But, at this point, I think I would support an Asenion lynch even if I thought him town. I will only suffer being lied to for so long. And how do we know that he's telling the truth about -anything-, exactly? What credibility does he have? People other than myself have commented on the dubious nature of his claim. I was under the impression that when you catch someone in a lie in a game of Mafia, you lynch them.
I dunno. I need to take a step back and try to keep my personal feelings from getting into the game too much. Manders yelled at me in Checks about that, and as I'm typing this, I'm finding that I'm still having that problem.
I'll be over there --------------------->
Well I'm perfectly ready to accept that it was a failed NK that gave you your Unlock, I'm just trying to suss out if there are any other possibilities. You see what I'm saying with the way the Mafia NK ability reads? But if no one else steps up to say "Hey, my ability failed last Night..." then pretty much either (1) it was the scum NK or (2) it may not have been the scum NK, but it was some other scum ability, which still potentially narrows down who they are.
Are you SURE you didn't get an unlock on Night 1?
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So I've been thinking about Asenion's claim and I went back to look at previous claims/roles in this game. I'm not sure if it's because we don't have the flavor of his role, but Asenion's claim seems disjointed compared to the other roles.
So looking over Asenion's claim I'm just not sure how it fits together. A delayed day tracker + night rolecop is a little weird but I'm sure they could be tied together somehow (a private eye who breaks into houses during the night, perhaps?). What gets me is the unlock passive ability. I don't see how not voting can be tied into the other abilities. It certainly can't be mechanical like dC's or AsianI's.
@Asenion
Could you provide your role name and the names of your abilities?
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
I think the big problem is that the previous roles/claims have all had an elegance to them. Asenion's claim feels clunky. The abilities don't tie together mechanically with the restriction on the tracker ability. I'm struggling to come up with a way to connect the unlock ability flavorfully to the other abilities.
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
Um, where in there does it say I didn't??
I got two unlocks night one. I don't see where you're drawing the idea that I got zero.
Ah, never mind. I thought you said somewhere that you only got one unlock Night 2 and didn't get any Night 1.
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I sent a PM to Zindabad with the details of my role name, flavor, and ability names. I'm awaiting his approval before posting it so I don't break any game rules by accident - I don't want to come too close to PM quoting.
The short version is that I'm a sneaky person who likes to stay hidden in the shadows and all my abilities have to do with that.
@SilverSihhe: I'm sorry that you feel personally offended that you were lied to. However, this is Mafia and lies happen a lot. This may not be be a healthy game for you if such things bother you greatly. I lied for what I considered to be a strategic gain and explained my reasons for doing so. I also told the truth when I felt the lie no longer served a purpose. I do not think policy lynches are a good idea and I do not think anything I have done is toxic to the game.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
Not voting would basically be hiding out, trying to go unnoticed.
So that does make more sense now. I will wait for ability names and attached actions to confirm, but that does make sense.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
On the side, I looked back and I noticed something that really bugs me about D_V now. He basically discredits the WoD wagon a lot. He first says that the wagon had people who actively stated that "were not even paying attention to the game" which basically discredits the wagon or a veiled shot at Tanarin, who was hounding him early, as well as the "I hate meta arguments" and "behavior afterwards is justifiable". Then he goes after Arnn after the policy-lynch incident, so another shot at the wagon. He only then votes after WoD disappears forever.
So maybe the DRey wagon has ground?
If so, AsianI is more town than before, Guardman is prob town, Tan is prob town.
I'll read into DRey later. Also would like any rebuttals from him on ced's case.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
You mean on/before the 20th?
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
I am the Ghost. I spent years hunting raw talent and developed tracking skills. I use mind powers that lock/unlock memories/abilities. I'm good at studying and learning about my targets before facing them. My abilities are named:
Light Fingers - Role cop: steal their files.
Shadow - Delayed Tracker: Follow people without being seen.
Synapse Shock/Stun - lock/unlock people
Spectre - Gain unlocks when you are unseen
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
The first post:
The first thing he talks about here is the lack of a kill. He basically restates everything we know so far (There is no NK, Arnn had a lock unlock.) He also throws out that Asension was RBed as if it was a fact. Last I checked, Arnn was not confirmed town, thus we can't confirm one way or the other if he is telling the truth. Only way I can see a person being this confident is if they are either a cop or not town. I am positive given the roles that have been revealed so far that it is not the former in play here.
The next big thing is when he addresses the Asension wagon proper. I have no problem with the first sentence, as it is true that sometimes town does lie (Traps anyone?) He then goes on about his behavior and how it changed suddenly between the beginning and now. This normally would look like he is scum hunting except for the fact that Asension at this point has already admitted that he was lying about being a newb at Mafia and that it was one entire gambit. He then throws in the sentence at the end that he fakes stupidity all the time as scum, as to give him a reason to be on the wagon, as he already cut himself off using lying as a reason.
He finally says that Asension is the lynch for today, yet wait... he does not throw a vote on Asension at all here. If a person believe that someone should be the lynch, isn't it proper to throw down a vote if you know the wagon is not near lynch yet? This shows me he wants to appear town (Researching into the current wagon) yet does not want to commit a vote.
It is also odd that he is willing to have the day end when he was so adamant about it being day so he can re-read. One would think that if he needed/wanted the time to re-read, he would be more reserved or even not chime in so fast on the current wagon.
Now on to the second post:
He attempts to make another push on Asension's wagon by first off ruling out a random fail NK (Again a fair point,) but also ruling out the chance that there was a protection from AI or another. While it is true that AI is just a bodyguard, he discounts the fact that AI may have unlocked his other ability (His one shot Kill immunity.) He then throws in that he thinks AI is scum as well. One has to wonder why he thinks this from his 180 posts he claims to have read,180 posts that had no AI in them at all, nor really the person he replaced either. He pretty much uses this post to throw mud on another player while still pushing his wagon of choice.
Unvote Vote Drey
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I did not prevent a kill last Night.
This is an excellent point, especially considering I asked DRey twice to explain who he thought was scum pushing a no-lynch and failed to elicit any response.
Vote DRey
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This. It is possible, with this quantity of people, that there is someone else out there that was able to otherwise affect the NK.
Also, did you see this question?:
It's fine if you don't want to answer, but I wasn't sure if you missed it, since you didn't address it.
---------------
@DRey/re:DRey
While it's a pretty safe assumption that the scum didn't opt to not NK, that doesn't automatically implicate Asenion. As discussed previously, Arnnaria's confirmation of a successful roleblock =/= Asenion tried to do something. It just means that Arnnaria wasn't blocked in turn and that Asenion wasn't untargetable for any reason. While Asenion may have tried to perform a NK, this looks like an attempt to run up Asenion on something that had already been discussed as unconfirmable.
Is it, though? Also, Asenion may not have been under pressure, but Arnnaria was not the only one suspicious of him. The "good job Arnnaria :thumbsup:" looks out of place here to me, too.
His behavior is different because he's not lying about who he is any more. While part of me wanted to lynch Asenion based on unnecessary lies that started before the game did, similar to SilverSihhe, the fact that he started then makes it not a scum tell at all - even if he is scum now, he would have no way of knowing when he signed up that he would end up being scum. The fact that you do it "all the time as scum" doesn't even make sense. Are you saying that you pretend to be a new player every time you join a game?
I disagree here. Also, this last part doesn't make sense. Asenion was offering to perform an unlock on his way out as a courtesy. If he is scum, why would he unlock someone who we want him to?
Disregarding the random snippet about random chance, the fact that you're calling AI "our claimed protective role" makes it seem like you're either:
a) making a blanket assumption that there's only 1 protective role in a 21 person game with complex roles
b) trying to run up Asenion in a method that will hopefully cause other potential protective roles to claim
-------------------------
@Caex
The downside of this, as Asenion has noted, is that people have started spewing information into the thread. :\
Unvote, Vote DRey
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Nope, I was not particularly talking about Eron, I was talking in general, and it's obvious. Creating new wagons when we are less than 48hrs into the deadline is anti-town in a vacuum. That being said in retrospect the wagon was a good wagon, and we can gather much intel from it. It's easy and I'm surprised you haven't done any analysis on that, who tried to slow down and deflect from Eron? (notice I didn't do this, because I had no knowledge of Eron's play at that point, and I still don't in a way).
Because I was not truly against it (I still haven't read anything about him, and I didn't read any walls as I had no idea about what Xyre was talking about), you got that right. Also repeat with me: "unnecessary claims are bad", "unnecessary claims are bad", "unnecessary claims are bad",... a thousand times over, I always said this and I will keep saying this forever, because I believe in this.
Your opinion is correct, I had no reason to lynch him, neither protect him and that's what I commented about his wagon: nothing. I'm town, when I'm town I say whatever comes into my mind, I don't really care about you guys will think about my opinions because they are my own, I believe in them and I always say what I believe when I'm town. It's funny because I only did what any reasonable townie in my place would do:
a)Try to ensure there will be a lynch, any lynch (remember I had almost nil undestanding of the game at that point, so I couldn't give opinion about any wagon)
b)To stop the bleed of info (we had like 2 claims in less than 24 hours and less than 48 into deadline).
Tell me hero, if you were in my position what would YOU do? Push for a massclaim? Defend a no-lynch because you aren't sure AI, Shark or Eron is scum since you haven't been in the game for the last two months?
Also why do you think Shark is scum? I'm pretty sure he's scum from what I'm rereading so far. Related question, when I flip town who's scum?
I trust Arn for quite some reasons, let me expand for you.
1)I trust Xyre and Axel, I remember both of them saying good things about Arn
2)Arn he was pretty townie from my talks with him yesterDay
3)The way he reacted to Asension is VERY pro-town, I find very unlikely scum would charge into a player like that knowing he would be in a very bad spot if Asension would flip town (unless it's a bussing gambit, but those are rare and with 2 member less I find kinda impossible for then to play like this unless Arn is a Kpaca gimmick :p).
Nice fishing, but I will not reveal anything about my role, except that I'm town. ALso please don't ever mention the cop anymore if you are town, good things never come from it.
I loled here, so you conclude I'm scumhunting but not really, then say I have a good reason for knowing scum likes to feign stupidity then my reason is not that good. Please make up your mind.
Please reread last sentence of that very same post, I will wait, then come back and apologize. Kthanksbye.
I said this? Cool because I didn't know it nor it's in what I believe, this Day has less than a week and I'm far from finishing my reread, but I dislike lurkers and non-entities players therefore I want to contribute to the game as fast as possible.
TLDR: The day is far from over, but I find very unlikely someone can top Asension as the lynch for toDay considering what happened.
I have no knowledge of how AI unlocks his locks, AI is alive nor I believe him to be town, don't you agree I have zero reason to believe he could have prevented a NK and lived? Also weren't you reading the game yesterDay? My belief AI is scum has nothing to do with how Charm played(I think I've only read ONE post of him so far and I didn't found it scummy).
Also for the third time you say my reason is pretty good but conclude I'm scummy independently of that, this is very strange imho.
Not you have failed to reread the game but you have failed to reread yesterDay too? I have already answered this, you do need to reread, actually you don't because I'm pretty sure you are scum and already knows everything you need to know.
I did this? Where?
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
HI ERON I SEE YOU READING AGAIN
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
He's also got this attitude which doesn't come across as scummy to me - but I was also burned bad by DRey once, in part due to a style that read as genuine to me, so he's going to get a lot less leeway in that regard this time.
I laughed at the first paragraph.
DRey's attitude I've noticed is always genuine no matter the alignment because the best way to put it is he plays angry. His is a very emotional style that always seems and probably is genuine. With DRey especially you have to read the intent behind his actions.
a)mostly by town (because after losing two scum, there's probably not many scum out there and they certainly aren't eager to spearhead a town mislynch)
b)mostly by players that have a LOT of experience with me, so they know what I'm not scummy.
c)I'm town
d)I have like 10 posts?
e)I haven't even finished rereading the game, so I'm being attacked for things I don't even know about.
To tell the truth I play the same as town or scum, so it's kinda hard to catch me with the hand in the cookie jar, but I understand what you are talking about.
That being said, please do, please reread me, because saying I tried to deflect from Eron when the only thing I was doing was trying to avoid a no-lynch (a very real possibility at that point) and a mass claim it's absurd and I'm pretty sure townCed would not push for this crap, that's why I was thinking he's scum. But apparently Eron hammering himself somehow confirmed Ced as town because Ced has to hammer or something like that to get his powers.
In a related news I've reached a point were you are being attacked for craptastic reasons, boy I'm a disappoint because you are clearly the towniest in the early game.
Yup, I can confirm this as the truth.
EWP: I've just died in my other game, now I'm full time here so expect my reread to pick up speed.
I will also answer Cy next.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
A whole lot of what you said was basically in a vacuum, which is fine (in a vacuum), but with ~5 days, you can at least read D2 or at least glance through some of it to get a read. Yes it's bad to vote w/o opinions, but isn't it also bad to not contribute. I think you should have at least made an opinion, that way you could help contribute and help prevent unnecessary claims.
So instead of helping contribute to getting a lynch done, which you've stated is better than no-lynching, and decide to keep your hands clean and not actively push one way or another and instead settle for pushing me, when if you read the past posts, would have shown you that no more additional support would have come to that wagon. Also, in the time period you joined, you could glance through ~100 posts a day or so. ~500 posts would be enough to get an opinion on AsianI, myself, and Eron, so I mean you could have been proactive. Instead you sat around and was as much contribution to the lynch as Asenion's "vote". Basically, town was down 2 votes having to push a wagon.
You cannot complain about town having too many unnecessary claims when you are not actively participating in preventing them from happening. It would be like basically going on Facebook and hitting "Like if you support ______" instead of actually contributing time or money to actually support that cause.
Vote DRey
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
If you unlock someone's lock does it go into effect right away? And is this ability locked to begin with or have you already had it? If it does go into effect right away and if you have it unlocked, showing that you can unlock someone's lock will be a great stride into my understanding of what exactly went down last night.
And if you guys believe "there's 4 scum out there" is town behavior you seriously need a psychiatrist. I have been playing mafia for like 2 years, have played in all Zinda's large games, and I don't even remember how many scum were in Seasons (and I was part of the scumteam!), this kind of mindset can't come from a town POV until near the endgame when we are nearing POE range. And to the people that says "but considering the size of this game it's very unlikely there's 4 scum out there so Shark was wrong and therefore town". Have you never seen a scum townsliping before? Shark is certainly experienced enough to pull a stunt like that.
Heck even I did it very recently when I instructed one of my scumbuddies (a newbie player) to ask "hey guys what's this QT thing you guys are talking about?" in basic 66.
Mythic rarity is not destroying the game. People whine too much for no good reason. Magic is more popular than ever, so keep calm, brew some decks and play some damn cards.
Maybe if you caught up all the way and actually read how my wagon develop, how people were pushing me as scum for reasons that could go either way, then maybe you might see how I am town.
And you are targetting me as scum for recent posts, so what makes them scummy to you? And you are using a RVS post? You post just makes me laugh.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
So, just as soon as your wagon starts to heat up, you try to misdirect back on to Shark, of all people? The guy whose wagon we ran into the literal ground yesterDay, and who we didn't lynch after all of that attention?
Vote DRey.
With 18 alive, its 10 to lynch.
DRey is at L-3.
—Lazav
_______________________________________________
Mafia Stats
Summary:
Total Win %: 40%
Total Scum Win %: 60%
Total Town Win %: 20%
Total Neutral Win %: 0%
But I had reasons for not coming out the gate swinging at him out of last night.
It only makes sense at this point to get him to claim range, however. And I still may be able to shed some light afterwards.
Unvote, Vote DRey
The unlock happens immediately, but it won't block an ability they choose to use that phase or allow them to use another ability they wouldn't have been able to use.
I started the game with my locksmith skill unlocked, but it only applies when I target someone with an ability I have. With everything else locked, it's impossible for me to use it.
Here's the thing about that play: I'm willing to do it if I need to, but announcing to someone that I am unlocking their lock and tracking them that Night basically makes the Tracker part useless. So long as people believe me, I have no reason to waste a Night of Tracking to put forth evidence of my innocence.
I'm all caught up and finals are over. I'm also sick. My current reads leave me suspicious of Nis, Guardman, and a bit of Axelrod still. I think the DRey wagon is probably misplaced. He's clearly obnoxious, but that doesn't make him scummy. I don't intend to vote for him.
I've got a partial case on Guardman, I'll post that in another day or two.
My cube: http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/9981
The bold just doesn't line up with your claim for me:
How can you follow someone without being seen while simultaneously shocking their minds? This comes back to the elegance thing I spoke of earlier. The roles/claims we already have are elegant. Yours has some flavor disconnect.
I know I'm flavorgaming here, and zindabad said that was a bad way to go, but your claim just feels off. You've teased it out over multiple posts, including your last with this new information about how your locksmith ability works, and your flavor just doesn't stand up to the quality of previous roles/claims.
I don't want to push for your lynch over flavor because I really am thinking I'm falling into the trap zindy warned us about, but I don't believe your claim in the slightest.
[card=Jace Beleren]Jace[/card] = Jace
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The first rule of Cursecatcher is, You do not talk about Cursecatcher.
And you're 100% sure that your abilities locks are unlocked right now?
DRey: "Scum are trying to force a no-lynch! Don't change your votes away from main wagons!"
AsianInvasion: "Which players are scum trying to force a no-lynch?"
DRey: "..."
AsianInvasion: "Way to ignore my post."
DRey: "..."
AsianInvasion: "Way to give Axelrod grief for ignoring your post when you did the same yourself."
DRey: "I plead the Fifth."
Yeah, you need to die.
On that note, compare my behavior replacing in Day One with DRey's replacing in Day Two. I didn't try to change people's mind re: WoD's lynch even though I wanted to reread before it went through. However, DRey made a point to make his purely hypothetical position on claiming known despite having no knowledge of the thread to support his theoretical stance. Between stepping back to let knowledgeable people work and trying to dominate conversation while remaining ignorant, which of these seems like town play and which of these seems like scum play?