I run 27 land in my list and at times it feels a little light, so I can definitely get behind 28 land especially with a playset of drownyards. He's running 4 Sphinx's so the lands will essentially pay for themselves if he can survive long enough. But that's my biggest issue with his list, it's obviously very good against control and midrange strategies but it seems a bit too soft to agro to me.
Also, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable trying to beat Rakdos or RDW through milling, or that my opponents will play fast enough for me to not draw all of the time.
He likely ran the standard 26 land, 2 Nephalia Drownyard at first. Then he realized that the only real win condition he wanted was Drownyard, at which point he cut 2 planeswalkers and went to 28 lands, by adding 2 Drownyard. They were commenting on his decklist at the SCG Invitational and he apparently put the Drownyards as the first card on the list, in the "Planeswalkers" section.
I think 28 lands is a great idea. I lose far more games to missed land drops than flooding, especially in a deck with Sphinx's Revelation.
This is "my" version, and a work in progress, and I am pretty sure it won't hold up game 1 vs. red based aggro decks. It's positioned to punish other control decks and mid-range strategies. But it sure does look fun!
I did some testing against UWR Midrange and Bant control. I didn't have much trouble against either one of them. Four Drownyards is extremely difficult for Bant to beat and UWR Midrange spends too much time casting cantrips to make land drops. If their land comes more naturally I might have a harder time but in the three games I played they just couldn't keep up mana-wise.
I'd love to hear what others have to say about my list. I haven't played in my local meta in a few months and plan to take this to an upcoming FNM. I have a feeling I need to make some changes to the sideboard, at the very least.
@delslow how has Curse of Death's Hold felt to you? I haven't done any testing with it since Delver was dominating last standard season and I'm a little skeptical or its applications in the current environment.
Curse of Death's Hold is a significant reason to run Esper right now, despite UB and BW not being out yet. If you survive long enough to drop them they simply ruin RB Aggro and if you drop 2 GW Aggro/Midrange are also pretty much done for.
O ring and D sphere take care of needle, but souls and sorin vamps can be legitimate closers. Play lingering souls, make a sorin vamp, giving you 3 creatures. Next turn make an emblem, swing for 6. Repeat 4 times.
I have been using the souls and sorin route but i find that trample is really hard to deal with
Rancor is a pain in the ass
I have been playing two curses and you are right about getting two down. It screws most aggro decks big time
So if you guys were playing in a big event would you rather run a top Bant build or a top Esper Build?
I think if they're wasting a card to fight your lands your probably in pretty good shape. And, if they Pithing Needle Drownyard, don't you just win on the back of your planeswalkers and Sphinx's Revelation? And besides, the only decks that I've seen running Pithing Needle are Bant control and its only a singleton out of the sideboard. And, by then we will have boarded in more counterspells/discard and Planeswalkers. It shouldn't be too difficult.
I think I'm going to try running Curse of Death's Hold in my list. Any suggestions on what I should cut or how many Curses I should have main? I'm almost certainly going to cut my maindeck Elixir. It just doesn't matter that much. I'd rather have another removal spell or counter spell. But, aside from that I'm not sure what I should look to cut.
People have been playing Sorin wrong for the entirety of that cards standard legality which is why only Shaheen puts up consistent numbers with that card. If you have lingering souls tokens on an empty board and drop a Sorin, 99% of the time, the correct play is -2 bash. Especially in boarded games, opposing decks aren't well equipped to deal with a clock coming from control that gets faster each turn.
If the opponent wastes cards answering the tokens, you start ticking sorin up making soulbounded nearhearth pilgrims ever turn which goes a long term towards stabilizing while simultanously adding another clock, AND your mana's free for you to draw into D-spheres for any pithing needle disuption.
LP, I'm checking your article out as well. Behind all of your swag is the brain of one of the most intelligent Magic players I've ever known. I guess that's one more thing for you to add to the wall of ego that is your Sally sig.
I can go with that. LK, you are the Mace Windu of red mages...cool, tempered logic in deliberation, but capable of just flat kicking tail when the situation warrants it.
Kinecy... so much yes. I'm glad to see I'm not the only person that know about the best planeswalker in standard. Sorin is so good as a win condition it is insane.
We are undoubtedly weak against R/x Aggro varients, so Augur and seven sweepers help us get there game one. Postboard, FoD and Rhox are excellent.
UW/x Control (or the mirror) is a grind and will most likely go to time, so game one is extremely important for us. So, maybe heightening the Drownyard count would be wise, but I have my doubts. Colorless mana can be harsh on us at times, but I'm still playtesting. Postboard, Jace 3.0 comes in and can create a quick clock if left unanswered.
We are undoubtedly weak against R/x Aggro varients, so Augur and seven sweepers help us get there game one. Postboard, FoD and Rhox are excellent.
UW/x Control (or the mirror) is a grind and will most likely go to time, so game one is extremely important for us. So, maybe heightening the Drownyard count would be wise, but I have my doubts. Colorless mana can be harsh on us at times, but I'm still playtesting. Postboard, Jace 3.0 comes in and can create a quick clock if left unanswered.
I like this look, but I think you have 62 cards in the main, as you have 5 creatures, not 3.
Drogskol Reaver is quite strong right now. It's a lifegain/draw engine that presents a quick clock which is especially true when equipped to Runechanter's Pike. It first strikes Thragtusk, trades with Angel of Serenity, and is difficult to handle. All while gaining you life and card advantage.
Another reason was to have diversity in finishers. Lingering Souls + Sorin 2.0 is sometimes not enough. So, to have an additional finisher that can close out the game quicker is great.
Lastly, for me, it was between Entreat the Angels or Drogskol Reaver. Entreat was fun, but inconsistant. Its harsh when not miracled and tapping out T5 for a singleton 4/4 vanilla flyer didn't seem appealing to me.
Drogskol Reaver is underrated. A lot like Niv-Mizzet, if you untap with it, its normally GG.
I guess I could understand going to 3 Sphinx's but it still seems bad. Going to 2 just makes no sense to me.
I know Soorani did it too, but I like the newer lists (from MTGO and LA) a lot more than his lists, to be honest.
Yeah, Soorani was on the Lingering Souls/Pike plan. He only had drownyard to help in Control mirrors. He even elected to run Forbidden Alchemy over Revelation.
I think Sphinx's Revelation basically should always be a 4 of. Control was neutered by the rotation, since essentially all the good cards were Scars block. The best planeswalker left is Sorin, which is sad. If your deck is filled with 8 sweepers and you're planning on stalling into Sorin as the Grand Finale, you're likely going to be disappointed. I tried that at first and definitely was when my opponent sided in three Izzet Staticasters against me. Something about my Control deck getting wrecked by a common aggro sideboard was unsettling.
I think Revelation is the real point to these decks. 2 Sorin is a fine backup plan, and in my list I even still have a Runechanter's Pike as a singleton.
With versions not running Snapcaster, is there any reason to be using Forbidden Alchemy over Think Twice?
I do not see any benefits, especially if we are running Rest in Peace on the sideboard.
If you have 4 Sphinx's Revelation, I'd say Think Twice is better, since you're less susceptible to decking yourself and it can help you hit land drops a little easier. With less than 4, Alchemy is what I would run. The two cards are so different in power level, they're basically apples & oranges. I only like Think Twice for hitting land drops, really. Which is very important. Otherwise, Divination over 2 turns is just sad.
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Also, I'm not sure if I'm comfortable trying to beat Rakdos or RDW through milling, or that my opponents will play fast enough for me to not draw all of the time.
He likely ran the standard 26 land, 2 Nephalia Drownyard at first. Then he realized that the only real win condition he wanted was Drownyard, at which point he cut 2 planeswalkers and went to 28 lands, by adding 2 Drownyard. They were commenting on his decklist at the SCG Invitational and he apparently put the Drownyards as the first card on the list, in the "Planeswalkers" section.
I think 28 lands is a great idea. I lose far more games to missed land drops than flooding, especially in a deck with Sphinx's Revelation.
2 Detention Sphere
Instant
4 Azorius Charm
3 Dissipate
3 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Think Twice
2 Ultimate Price
Planeswalker
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Sorcery
4 Lingering Souls
4 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
4 Island
2 Plains
2 Swamp
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Isolated Chapel
3 Nephalia Drownyard
3 Rest in Peace
2 Dispel
2 Erase
3 Feeling of Dread
2 Negate
3 Jace, Memory Adept
Experimental Kraj
4 Azorius Charm
1 Cyclonic Rift
2 Dissipate
1 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Lingering Souls
1 Negate
4 Sphinx's Revelation
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
3 Think Twice
2 Ultimate Price
ENCHANTMENTS (4)
2 Curse of Death's Hold
2 Detention Sphere
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
LANDS (27)
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Plains
2 Swamp
2 Appetite for Brains
1 Dispel
2 Duress
2 Feeling of Dread
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Negate
1 Oblivion Ring
3 Rest in Peace
1 Supreme Verdict
This is "my" version, and a work in progress, and I am pretty sure it won't hold up game 1 vs. red based aggro decks. It's positioned to punish other control decks and mid-range strategies. But it sure does look fun!
________________STANDARD________________
UBW Soorani Esper Control UBW
UBW Nicholas Spagnolo's Drownyard Control UBW
___________________EDH___________________
UB Wydwen, the Biting Gale UB
W Michiko Konda, Truth Seeker W
3 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Jace, Memory Adept
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
Spells
1 Cremate
1 Elixir of Immortality
2 Thought Scour
3 Azorius Charm
1 Negate
2 Think Twice
2 Dissipate
4 Lingering Souls
4 Sphinx's Revelation
1 Rewind
2 Supreme Verdict
3 Terminus
4 Drowned Catacomb
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Island
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Nephalia Drownyard
2 Plains
1 Swamp
1 Cremate
2 Duress
1 Pithing Needle
1 Negate
1 Snapcaster Mage
1 Ultimate Price
3 Detention Sphere
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Supreme Verdict
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Terminus
1 Drogskol Reaver
I did some testing against UWR Midrange and Bant control. I didn't have much trouble against either one of them. Four Drownyards is extremely difficult for Bant to beat and UWR Midrange spends too much time casting cantrips to make land drops. If their land comes more naturally I might have a harder time but in the three games I played they just couldn't keep up mana-wise.
I'd love to hear what others have to say about my list. I haven't played in my local meta in a few months and plan to take this to an upcoming FNM. I have a feeling I need to make some changes to the sideboard, at the very least.
@delslow how has Curse of Death's Hold felt to you? I haven't done any testing with it since Delver was dominating last standard season and I'm a little skeptical or its applications in the current environment.
The main problem with the deck is that a single Pithing Needle does in Nephalia Drownyard and then all they have to do is kill Jace, Memory Adept. Lingering Souls + 1 Sorin is a pretty thin alternate wincon.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I do run 3 sorins though. He is very very good.
Rancor is a pain in the ass
I have been playing two curses and you are right about getting two down. It screws most aggro decks big time
So if you guys were playing in a big event would you rather run a top Bant build or a top Esper Build?
Thank you DNC for the Sig
I think I'm going to try running Curse of Death's Hold in my list. Any suggestions on what I should cut or how many Curses I should have main? I'm almost certainly going to cut my maindeck Elixir. It just doesn't matter that much. I'd rather have another removal spell or counter spell. But, aside from that I'm not sure what I should look to cut.
3 Nephalia Drownyard
1 Evolving Wilds
4 Glacial Fortress
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Drowned Catacombs
4 Isolated Chapel
2 Island
2 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Vault of the Archangel
1 Ghost Quarter
Instant 15
2 Azorius Charm
2 Think Twice
2 Thought Scour
4 Sphinx’s Revelation
3 Dissipate
2 Ultimate Price
4 Lingering Souls
3 Terminus
2 Supreme Verdict
Enchantments 4
2 Curse of Death’s Hold
2 Detention Sphere
Planeswalkers 5
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
1 Jace, Memory Adept
1 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
2 Appetite for Brains
2 Duress
2 Dispel
1 Negate
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Cyclonic Rift
1 Drogskol Reaver
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Pithing Needle
1 Cremate
1 Supreme Verdict
I'm thinking about 2 Sever the Bloodline in the side, and -1 Dispel, -1 Supreme Verdict.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I also am not a fan of thought scour
I would do an extra think twice and extra sweeper in their place
Thank you DNC for the Sig
People have been playing Sorin wrong for the entirety of that cards standard legality which is why only Shaheen puts up consistent numbers with that card. If you have lingering souls tokens on an empty board and drop a Sorin, 99% of the time, the correct play is -2 bash. Especially in boarded games, opposing decks aren't well equipped to deal with a clock coming from control that gets faster each turn.
If the opponent wastes cards answering the tokens, you start ticking sorin up making soulbounded nearhearth pilgrims ever turn which goes a long term towards stabilizing while simultanously adding another clock, AND your mana's free for you to draw into D-spheres for any pithing needle disuption.
Experimental Kraj
3 Augur of Bolas
2 Drogskol Reaver
Spells (22)
4 Supreme Verdict
4 Azorius Charm
4 Lingering Souls
3 Terminus
3 Dissipate
2 Forbidden Alchemy
2 Sphinx's Revelation
Artifacts (1)
1 Runechanter's Pike
Planeswalkers (6)
2 Jace, Architect of Thought
2 Tamiyo, the Moon Sage
2 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
4 Hallowed Fountain
4 Drowned Catacomb
4 Isolated Chapel
4 Glacial Fortress
1 Vault of the Archangel
2 Nephalia Drownyard
3 Plains
3 Island
1 Swamp
2 Rhox Faithmender
1 Sever the Bloodline
3 Feeling of Dread
2 Negate
1 Dispel
2 Detention Sphere
2 Purify the Grave
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Jace, Memory Adept
We are undoubtedly weak against R/x Aggro varients, so Augur and seven sweepers help us get there game one. Postboard, FoD and Rhox are excellent.
UW/x Control (or the mirror) is a grind and will most likely go to time, so game one is extremely important for us. So, maybe heightening the Drownyard count would be wise, but I have my doubts. Colorless mana can be harsh on us at times, but I'm still playtesting. Postboard, Jace 3.0 comes in and can create a quick clock if left unanswered.
GW Aggro
I know Soorani did it too, but I like the newer lists (from MTGO and LA) a lot more than his lists, to be honest.
i am at work and can' tget to it but would love to see what you are talking about
please and thank you
Thank you DNC for the Sig
I like this look, but I think you have 62 cards in the main, as you have 5 creatures, not 3.
Thank you DNC for the Sig
Another reason was to have diversity in finishers. Lingering Souls + Sorin 2.0 is sometimes not enough. So, to have an additional finisher that can close out the game quicker is great.
Lastly, for me, it was between Entreat the Angels or Drogskol Reaver. Entreat was fun, but inconsistant. Its harsh when not miracled and tapping out T5 for a singleton 4/4 vanilla flyer didn't seem appealing to me.
Drogskol Reaver is underrated. A lot like Niv-Mizzet, if you untap with it, its normally GG.
GW Aggro
Yeah, Soorani was on the Lingering Souls/Pike plan. He only had drownyard to help in Control mirrors. He even elected to run Forbidden Alchemy over Revelation.
I think Sphinx's Revelation basically should always be a 4 of. Control was neutered by the rotation, since essentially all the good cards were Scars block. The best planeswalker left is Sorin, which is sad. If your deck is filled with 8 sweepers and you're planning on stalling into Sorin as the Grand Finale, you're likely going to be disappointed. I tried that at first and definitely was when my opponent sided in three Izzet Staticasters against me. Something about my Control deck getting wrecked by a common aggro sideboard was unsettling.
I think Revelation is the real point to these decks. 2 Sorin is a fine backup plan, and in my list I even still have a Runechanter's Pike as a singleton.
I do not see any benefits, especially if we are running Rest in Peace on the sideboard.
If you have 4 Sphinx's Revelation, I'd say Think Twice is better, since you're less susceptible to decking yourself and it can help you hit land drops a little easier. With less than 4, Alchemy is what I would run. The two cards are so different in power level, they're basically apples & oranges. I only like Think Twice for hitting land drops, really. Which is very important. Otherwise, Divination over 2 turns is just sad.