I like specters as sword holders. Most of them are cheap, and fly, so giving them a sword means they'll connect a lot (and with something like Nightmare Lash it'll hurt alot). Hand disruption isn't as necessarily late game once peoples hands start to run dry, but early game it really is a backbreaking effect, especially at random.
just the double usage of early disruption and a late game sword holder earns their keep in my book.
I like specters as sword holders. Most of them are cheap, and fly, so giving them a sword means they'll connect a lot (and with something like Nightmare Lash it'll hurt alot). Hand disruption isn't as necessarily late game once peoples hands start to run dry, but early game it really is a backbreaking effect, especially at random.
just the double usage of early disruption and a late game sword holder earns their keep in my book.
Yeah, the specters are always relevant. I've got 2 specters early before and just nuked hands apart. I've also used them to hold a sword or lash late in the game. It would be nice if they were beefier, but they do their job well now and work until Wizards prints something better.
I may give Ashes to Ashes a whirl when I make my next trip to pick up cards for this deck. 2 for 1 exile for 5 life is a game changer even at sorcery speed.
anyone mention caged sun yet? get all the sweet mana in the world and a Bad Moon
I have Crypt Ghast and Nirkana Revenant as doublers already. This isn't exactly a big mana deck as built ATM. How bad do I really need a third doubler that can't carry a sword?
Yeah, the specters are always relevant. I've got 2 specters early before and just nuked hands apart. I've also used them to hold a sword or lash late in the game. It would be nice if they were beefier, but they do their job well now and work until Wizards prints something better.
I may give Ashes to Ashes a whirl when I make my next trip to pick up cards for this deck. 2 for 1 exile for 5 life is a game changer even at sorcery speed.
I have Crypt Ghast and Nirkana Revenant as doublers already. This isn't exactly a big mana deck as built ATM. How bad do I really need a third doubler that can't carry a sword?
Reckless Spite is an instant speed equivalent, but destroys rather than exiles.
Caged Sun for Darksteel Ingot - Ingot wasn't to great, and caged sun can can make the beaters better and gives more mana late game. Its on a trial basis, but I think this is a good change.
I like reckless spite, but non black doesn't work in my meta.
So I picked up a few cards at the LGS to drop in.
[list]
[*]Ashes to Ashes, Devour in Shadow, and Dismember for Diabolic Edict, Geth's Verdict, and Tribute to Hunger - removed all the edict effects for targeted removal that works as universally as possible.
[*]Drana, Kalastria Highborn for Reaper from the Abyss - Reaper didn't synergize well with the deck and Drana can put down a big beating and kill creatures as a mana sink.
[*]Caged Sun for Darksteel Ingot - Ingot wasn't to great, and caged sun can can make the beaters better and gives more mana late game. Its on a trial basis, but I think this is a good change.
Misread ashes, though it was nonblack also lol. I'd keep at least one sac kill spell in, to try and get around hexproof or shroud at least. My favorite is Tribute to Hunger or if you dont mind sorcery speed, Consuming Vapors
List tags are malformed.
Though you're correct on those Throst, they are expensive for their effects, at least in black. I'd rather run a 2CMC kill spell that works 90% of the time (such as Go for the Throat than run a 3CMC that works 99% of the time, but that's just me.
Have you thought about tuning the deck for Dark Confident package? You have a mostly low curve already, but if you work it down even further, you could likely get the deck to go off a few turns faster.
Exile effects is something we dont see often in black, Brittle Effigy might even be worth it.
I play Glissa voltron, tho the green is really more of a splash. Vault Skirge is amazing there as far as flyers to strap equipment to.
Thanks for the suggestion. Eyeblight's Ending is a neat one I missed somehow. Brittle effigy may make a trial run at some point. I see a few indestructible guys. I'm testing Ashes to Ashes, but requiring two targets is both a benefit and a drawback. 5 life also starts getting significant without lifegain somewhere.
I tried a few evasive 1/1 guys and the never had enough impact, but they didn't have lifelink either. He may be worth a look.
Though you're correct on those Throst, they are expensive for their effects, at least in black. I'd rather run a 2CMC kill spell that works 90% of the time (such as Go for the Throat than run a 3CMC that works 99% of the time, but that's just me.
I do agree that we want the cheapest removal that we can play that also does the most damage versus the meta. The deck is not too mana intensive, but 1 CMC here and there does make a difference. Quite honestly, I'm debating if I want Corrupt in the deck at its CMC. It doesn't contribute to commander damage, it will never kill a player, and its also sorcery speed. I don't think I've played it once yet.
Have you thought about tuning the deck for Dark Confident package? You have a mostly low curve already, but if you work it down even further, you could likely get the deck to go off a few turns faster.
I wish Oubliette were instant speed, lol. If I find one I can try it.
You are on to something with the Dark Confident idea. CMC is much more important to this deck than some of the others I have played. The best games I played were ones where I took off like a cannon. Generally speaking the high CMC guys like Lord of the Void and Reiver Demon I don't have the mana to play, or I have a more profitable play by dropping mind twist and an equipment or any other cheaper spells. The deck wins a whole lot more off Korlash for commander than I initially expected.
I won't initially purchase DC, nut I will start working down the average CMC and see how deck performance improves.
Just initial thoughts on lowering the CMC creature wise. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, Sangromancer, and Dimir House Guard are all evasive 4 drops with nice effects I will probably look at adding. Speaking of XHD. I may have too many artifacts, especially on the equipment end and need to work more black cards in. This can also let me slot in Jet Medallion as a cost reducing mana rock. At the end of the day, Lashwrithe is hands down the all-star over all of the other equipment just due to the synergy of the sheer damage output coupled with the deck's ability to go unblockable.
I'd love any thoughts on lower CMC all-stars I can use to start working the curve down a bit.
You'll have to forgive any 4:30 AM sounds of rambling.
So I'm coming to the conclusion that Honden of the Night's Reach is a terrible card. It only hits one card for one opponent per turn. Just not much impact for something that may not survive more than a few turns. Is so inferior to Words of Waste; words can take over games, especially once you get draw on board.
Should I look into another discard option, or would I be better served with another creature, spell, etc.
Another card that I dislike is Gilded Lotus. I don't have anything big to ramp into and I never want to play it when I hit five mana as I'd rather be dropping threats. I definitely need to look into a cheaper something in this slot. Walking Atlas and Druidic Satchel are essentially mana rocks already so I'm not sure exactly how much of a pure mana rock concentration I need. The deck does like lands, but rocks speed things up as well.
Another thought I had, what are the cheapest board wipes you can regenerate Korlash around? I seriously with there was a black Day of Judgement. Damnation and mutilate are both no-bo's with Korlash's regeneration.
For honden, triumph of cruelty is a 3cmc one. Korlash is almost always going to be the biggest at the table..
As for board clearance, damnation and mutilate are cheapest. I'm a fan of BSZ and barter in blood also, as well as kagemaro. Obkiviin stone is also cheap for dark confident and can be done in partial payments.
For honden, triumph of cruelty is a 3cmc one. Korlash is almost always going to be the biggest at the table..
As for board clearance, damnation and mutilate are cheapest. I'm a fan of BSZ and barter in blood also, as well as kagemaro. Oblivion stone is also cheap for dark confident and can be done in partial payments.
I hadn't thought of Triumph of Cruelty. Yeah other than Azusa, I should always have the largest creature. After so many turns I can beat her toys with Korlash also. I still wonder if it's strong enough, but coming down sooner makes it stronger.
I figured as much with the removal options. Other than Oblivion Stone, I haven't came up with one cheaper than 6 CMC that lets Korlash regenerate. hmmm....With all the swamps we run, Mutilate could be worth running regardless. It can always be a nice pre-korlash board wipe. Maybe I overrate Korlash's ability to regenerate vs. using a wrath. With BSZ, its the most mana intensive, but also gives me the control to kill tokens and small fare, but also keep korlash around.
Another creature someone pointed out was Desecration Demon. It can hit ridiculously hard, and can also serve as removal. 6/6 for 4 would work well with triumph of cruelty, although it could just get chump blocked all day unless we make it unblockable (which we can).
I hadn't thought of Triumph of Cruelty. Yeah other than Azusa, I should always have the largest creature. After so many turns I can beat her toys with Korlash also. I still wonder if it's strong enough, but coming down sooner makes it stronger.
Triumph is obviously better the less players there are, but its particularly powerful against players you know are going to be the biggest problem to your strategy. It won't do much against a blue players huge hand that probably has 4-5 lands to toss in it, but that aside it's still good for its CMC.
I personally favor Bottomless Pit, and cards of it's like as well as Mind Twist/Mind Shatter if your going for proactive control. All of them decimate hands quickly and don't give the luxury of letting them choose. Pit hurts your hand as well, but I find that black decks often have more access to their graves than others do, so it's not as big of a deal and you have plenty of draw power to support it. Myojin of Night's Reach is absolutely backbreaking to opponents. telling everyone "drop your hand" is incredible, and it's hard to answer once it lands also.
I figured as much with the removal options. Other than Oblivion Stone, I haven't came up with one cheaper than 6 CMC that lets Korlash regenerate. hmmm....With all the swamps we run, Mutilate could be worth running regardless. It can always be a nice pre-korlash board wipe. Maybe I overrate Korlash's ability to regenerate vs. using a wrath. With BSZ, its the most mana intensive, but also gives me the control to kill tokens and small fare, but also keep korlash around.
I agree BSZ is mana intensive, but it shuffles back in which is important in meta's where you really need to stretch the value of board clears. NOTE: it does keep korlash on the board as long as he's bigger than the BSZ, but makes him that much weaker. BSZ puts -1/-1 counters on creatures, not til end of turn.
Another good board clear that lets Korlash Regenerate is Nevinryyal's Disk. It's obvious downside is it can be answered before it can go off, but at 4CMC for an oblivion-stone esque effect, it may be worth it. Another stax-ey like clear is Death Cloud, which is basically an X-valued Smallpox. the land sacing does hurt korlash, but it's another option.
Another creature someone pointed out was Desecration Demon. It can hit ridiculously hard, and can also serve as removal. 6/6 for 4 would work well with triumph of cruelty, although it could just get chump blocked all day unless we make it unblockable (which we can).
I have mixed feelings on it. Its early game power level is nothing to scoff at, but it's not on par with Abyssal Persecutor, who was just silly for Wizards to even print. If it were any other color, that downside would have actually been a downside but black is the undisputed champion of killing creatures, be it it's own or other creatures. I'd run Persecutor over Desacration Demon, to avoid the browbeat like problem.
I'm a fan of Life's Finale, it's just good. 6CMC to clear the board isn't bad, especially when you get to search and pitch 3 creatures from someone's deck into the grave, which you can abuse if you run Reanimate or Chainer, Dementia Master, but considering your MTGSalvation's rep for Chainer, I don't think I need to tell you that. It allows for Korlash to regenerate also, which is good.
Sadly we got no nerfed version of Damnation like Wrath of God got Day of Judgement, but it's to be expected as Damnation was a result of Planar Chaos, which whacked up all the colors. Damnation is still worth running, and it is the cheapest kill-all board clear. I'm also a fan of Living Death as a clear, simply because it sacs the board, which is better than destroying. it's just a fun card also.
I'm a fan of Life's Finale, it's just good. 6CMC to clear the board isn't bad, especially when you get to search and pitch 3 creatures from someone's deck into the grave, which you can abuse if you run Reanimate or Chainer, Dementia Master, but considering your MTGSalvation's rep for Chainer, I don't think I need to tell you that. It allows for Korlash to regenerate also, which is good.
Sadly we got no nerfed version of Damnation like Wrath of God got Day of Judgement, but it's to be expected as Damnation was a result of Planar Chaos, which whacked up all the colors. Damnation is still worth running, and it is the cheapest kill-all board clear. I'm also a fan of Living Death as a clear, simply because it sacs the board, which is better than destroying. it's just a fun card also.
Yeah Life's Finale at 6 CMC is the closest to DoJ that I get. Additionally, I don't have to pitch any cards if I don't have reanimation available. If I have equipment on korlash, or a lash on anything else, That creature can live around mutilate. Those seem like the 2 best options to work around keeping Korlash on the field.
I picked up Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed for the deck last night to go along with the Dimir house guard I'd already picked up. I',m going to work on slotting these guys in soon. I'm also going to slot in a Phyrexian Reclaimation to work with these two. I'll probably look at a bit more reanimation to give the deck more grindyness (Corpse Dance Maybe?). I may try to put Nether Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton to give me a higher sword carrier density, and add in Skullclamp to up the draw. The deck really needs solid draw early to fire on all cylinders. I want a lowerish curve to make my card slots more valuable early on.
I'm looking at a poison package with Tainted strike definitely in and Grafted Exoskeleton and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon as possibilities. Poison can speed Korlash up killing by a turn or two, and can amp up the power of the other creature slots.
Yeah Life's Finale at 6 CMC is the closest to DoJ that I get. Additionally, I don't have to pitch any cards if I don't have reanimation available. If I have equipment on korlash, or a lash on anything else, That creature can live around mutilate. Those seem like the 2 best options to work around keeping Korlash on the field.
I picked up Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed for the deck last night to go along with the Dimir house guard I'd already picked up. I',m going to work on slotting these guys in soon. I'm also going to slot in a Phyrexian Reclaimation to work with these two. I'll probably look at a bit more reanimation to give the deck more grindyness (Corpse Dance Maybe?). I may try to put Nether Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton to give me a higher sword carrier density, and add in Skullclamp to up the draw. The deck really needs solid draw early to fire on all cylinders. I want a lowerish curve to make my card slots more valuable early on.
I'm looking at a poison package with Tainted strike definitely in and Grafted Exoskeleton and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon as possibilities. Poison can speed Korlash up killing by a turn or two, and can amp up the power of the other creature slots.
Um, keep note that Life's Finale strictly pulls cards out of an opponents library. It'd be way too good if it was a DoJ with a Buried Alive attached to it for a sweet 6 mana. It's still great nonetheless.
Ask your meta about Infect. Mine uses "20 is the death # for infect. As life is doubled from 20 to 40, infect should follow the same ratio". If thats the case, than it's next to useless imo.
Um, keep note that Life's Finale strictly pulls cards out of an opponents library. It'd be way too good if it was a DoJ with a Buried Alive attached to it for a sweet 6 mana. It's still great nonetheless.
Ask your meta about Infect. Mine uses "20 is the death # for infect. As life is doubled from 20 to 40, infect should follow the same ratio". If thats the case, than it's next to useless imo.
Yeah I'm aware Life's Finale only hits the opponent's yard. I could only wish it hit my yard too.
My playgroup uses 10 as infect, but infect hasn't been too prevalent either. It raises our power level at 10, but also could draw ire. I may sneak it in and see how it works in practice. What I'm not a fan of is KO'ing one player too early and having them sit and twiddle thumbs for a while.
Ah, the way you worded it made you sound like you were saying you didn't need to pitch 3 creatures from your library if you didn't need to lol.
Yeah, I don't like early RFGs also. If i'm going to RFG one player, I set out to finish the rest later. Having killed someone it's almost as if it puts a bounty on your head.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with infect unless thats the theme of the deck. It's a liability if you get someone to 9 infect, then the equipment is destroyed/exiled. Does applying infect still apply points toward general damage? I've never really thought about it before, but is it still general damage or a replacement effect?
I stopped by my LGS and picked up several of the cards on my list. Still working the deck towards where I want it and they didn't have all the cards I wanted, but I like these changes and think they are improvements. A lot of the changes both add utility and help lower the curve. I haven't got Xiahou Dun, the One-eyed or Dimir House Guard in the mail yet that will both definitely both be in the deck. Mutilate, Skullclamp, and Ambition's cost are also on my hit list when I can find a copy. Bob...if we get the curve low and like the way its firing, I'll look at him. Just running the math in my spreadsheet, these changes lower my average CMC from 3.758 to 3.246.
Nether Traitor for Lord of the Void - Lord was to costly CMC wise and traitor is a recursive hasted unblpckable sword carrier.
Reassembling Skeleton for Reiver Demon - Lord is too costly and too unreliable. Skeleton is recursive. I'm not sure how he will do, but I'll test him for his ability to come back forever.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with infect unless thats the theme of the deck. It's a liability if you get someone to 9 infect, then the equipment is destroyed/exiled. Does applying infect still apply points toward general damage? I've never really thought about it before, but is it still general damage or a replacement effect?
Yeah infect I'll likely pass on for now. As you say, I need 10 in one shot or its basically worthless. I'm 95% sure poison counters don't count as commander damage so that is essentially a waste of a valuable turn.
JMDT, I haven't forgot about this deck, my auntie wort just needed (still needs) A LOT of work balancing control with having enough aggro. The first version I played 2 nights ago was way to aggro heavy and didn't have strong enough things to do with my mid/late turns, and it didn't have enough removal. It had me second guessing my ability to mtg yesterday morning and didn't want to give bunk advice. After thinking about it a bit more, I just needed a lot more destruction, and my confidence is restored! I hope that last message I sent you wasn't TOO rambling, ill make a more refined one here after your changes show up in the list.
In the mean time, I think the only infect worth this deck is inkmoth nexus. That guy has proven on multiple occasions he is willing to be the only infect and still take care of business. I have had bad experiences with skitherex splitting his damage. Inkmoth you don't feel bad when it doesn't work. He can be a great alt win con, you already have the support for it. It can also swing in the turn you wrath. The real reason though is inkmoth doesn't exactly need much in the way of deck slots.
Keep an eye on withering boon. I bought one for xhd and took it out after 3-4 games. That deck has a little more destruction this this one, and I was finding myself asking 'why keep mana out for a counter when I am just going to clear the board away anyways'. I am curious what you think of it after you get some games in with it.
I love that necrogen mists, I just pulled one out for wort. If you have a liliana of the veil, she might serve as another one. Liliana of the dark realms could be great here too. All of her abilities rock for a big mana black deck, shes an all-star in xhd, you might like her in chainer too.
One(two... I lied) last mana card(s) worth consideration. You have a general and half a dozen cards that get better the more swamps you have. Thawing Glaciers, and depending on draw, snagging another copy of terrain generator for this deck could be helpful.
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RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
just the double usage of early disruption and a late game sword holder earns their keep in my book.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Yeah, the specters are always relevant. I've got 2 specters early before and just nuked hands apart. I've also used them to hold a sword or lash late in the game. It would be nice if they were beefier, but they do their job well now and work until Wizards prints something better.
I may give Ashes to Ashes a whirl when I make my next trip to pick up cards for this deck. 2 for 1 exile for 5 life is a game changer even at sorcery speed.
I have Crypt Ghast and Nirkana Revenant as doublers already. This isn't exactly a big mana deck as built ATM. How bad do I really need a third doubler that can't carry a sword?
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Reckless Spite is an instant speed equivalent, but destroys rather than exiles.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I like reckless spite, but non black doesn't work in my meta.
So I picked up a few cards at the LGS to drop in.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Misread ashes, though it was nonblack also lol. I'd keep at least one sac kill spell in, to try and get around hexproof or shroud at least. My favorite is Tribute to Hunger or if you dont mind sorcery speed, Consuming Vapors
List tags are malformed.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Exile effects is something we dont see often in black, Brittle Effigy might even be worth it.
I play Glissa voltron, tho the green is really more of a splash.
Vault Skirge is amazing there as far as flyers to strap equipment to.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Have you thought about tuning the deck for Dark Confident package? You have a mostly low curve already, but if you work it down even further, you could likely get the deck to go off a few turns faster.
RWU Nom Nom Numot: The Hungry Devastator
GUB Damia's BUG-ifact Parade: all artifacts, all the time
GWG Trostani, Selesnya's Voice of Madness
GUG Edric, weenie master of DOOM
BRB Olivia Voldaren, Your creatures = MINE!
Thanks for the suggestion. Eyeblight's Ending is a neat one I missed somehow. Brittle effigy may make a trial run at some point. I see a few indestructible guys. I'm testing Ashes to Ashes, but requiring two targets is both a benefit and a drawback. 5 life also starts getting significant without lifegain somewhere.
I tried a few evasive 1/1 guys and the never had enough impact, but they didn't have lifelink either. He may be worth a look.
I do agree that we want the cheapest removal that we can play that also does the most damage versus the meta. The deck is not too mana intensive, but 1 CMC here and there does make a difference. Quite honestly, I'm debating if I want Corrupt in the deck at its CMC. It doesn't contribute to commander damage, it will never kill a player, and its also sorcery speed. I don't think I've played it once yet.
I wish Oubliette were instant speed, lol. If I find one I can try it.
You are on to something with the Dark Confident idea. CMC is much more important to this deck than some of the others I have played. The best games I played were ones where I took off like a cannon. Generally speaking the high CMC guys like Lord of the Void and Reiver Demon I don't have the mana to play, or I have a more profitable play by dropping mind twist and an equipment or any other cheaper spells. The deck wins a whole lot more off Korlash for commander than I initially expected.
I won't initially purchase DC, nut I will start working down the average CMC and see how deck performance improves.
Just initial thoughts on lowering the CMC creature wise. Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed, Sangromancer, and Dimir House Guard are all evasive 4 drops with nice effects I will probably look at adding. Speaking of XHD. I may have too many artifacts, especially on the equipment end and need to work more black cards in. This can also let me slot in Jet Medallion as a cost reducing mana rock. At the end of the day, Lashwrithe is hands down the all-star over all of the other equipment just due to the synergy of the sheer damage output coupled with the deck's ability to go unblockable.
I'd love any thoughts on lower CMC all-stars I can use to start working the curve down a bit.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
So I'm coming to the conclusion that Honden of the Night's Reach is a terrible card. It only hits one card for one opponent per turn. Just not much impact for something that may not survive more than a few turns. Is so inferior to Words of Waste; words can take over games, especially once you get draw on board.
Should I look into another discard option, or would I be better served with another creature, spell, etc.
Another card that I dislike is Gilded Lotus. I don't have anything big to ramp into and I never want to play it when I hit five mana as I'd rather be dropping threats. I definitely need to look into a cheaper something in this slot. Walking Atlas and Druidic Satchel are essentially mana rocks already so I'm not sure exactly how much of a pure mana rock concentration I need. The deck does like lands, but rocks speed things up as well.
Another thought I had, what are the cheapest board wipes you can regenerate Korlash around? I seriously with there was a black Day of Judgement. Damnation and mutilate are both no-bo's with Korlash's regeneration.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
As for board clearance, damnation and mutilate are cheapest. I'm a fan of BSZ and barter in blood also, as well as kagemaro. Obkiviin stone is also cheap for dark confident and can be done in partial payments.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I hadn't thought of Triumph of Cruelty. Yeah other than Azusa, I should always have the largest creature. After so many turns I can beat her toys with Korlash also. I still wonder if it's strong enough, but coming down sooner makes it stronger.
I figured as much with the removal options. Other than Oblivion Stone, I haven't came up with one cheaper than 6 CMC that lets Korlash regenerate. hmmm....With all the swamps we run, Mutilate could be worth running regardless. It can always be a nice pre-korlash board wipe. Maybe I overrate Korlash's ability to regenerate vs. using a wrath. With BSZ, its the most mana intensive, but also gives me the control to kill tokens and small fare, but also keep korlash around.
Another creature someone pointed out was Desecration Demon. It can hit ridiculously hard, and can also serve as removal. 6/6 for 4 would work well with triumph of cruelty, although it could just get chump blocked all day unless we make it unblockable (which we can).
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Triumph is obviously better the less players there are, but its particularly powerful against players you know are going to be the biggest problem to your strategy. It won't do much against a blue players huge hand that probably has 4-5 lands to toss in it, but that aside it's still good for its CMC.
I personally favor Bottomless Pit, and cards of it's like as well as Mind Twist/Mind Shatter if your going for proactive control. All of them decimate hands quickly and don't give the luxury of letting them choose. Pit hurts your hand as well, but I find that black decks often have more access to their graves than others do, so it's not as big of a deal and you have plenty of draw power to support it. Myojin of Night's Reach is absolutely backbreaking to opponents. telling everyone "drop your hand" is incredible, and it's hard to answer once it lands also.
I agree BSZ is mana intensive, but it shuffles back in which is important in meta's where you really need to stretch the value of board clears. NOTE: it does keep korlash on the board as long as he's bigger than the BSZ, but makes him that much weaker. BSZ puts -1/-1 counters on creatures, not til end of turn.
Another good board clear that lets Korlash Regenerate is Nevinryyal's Disk. It's obvious downside is it can be answered before it can go off, but at 4CMC for an oblivion-stone esque effect, it may be worth it. Another stax-ey like clear is Death Cloud, which is basically an X-valued Smallpox. the land sacing does hurt korlash, but it's another option.
I have mixed feelings on it. Its early game power level is nothing to scoff at, but it's not on par with Abyssal Persecutor, who was just silly for Wizards to even print. If it were any other color, that downside would have actually been a downside but black is the undisputed champion of killing creatures, be it it's own or other creatures. I'd run Persecutor over Desacration Demon, to avoid the browbeat like problem.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I'll make a real post here some time.
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm
Sadly we got no nerfed version of Damnation like Wrath of God got Day of Judgement, but it's to be expected as Damnation was a result of Planar Chaos, which whacked up all the colors. Damnation is still worth running, and it is the cheapest kill-all board clear. I'm also a fan of Living Death as a clear, simply because it sacs the board, which is better than destroying. it's just a fun card also.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
WRBTariel, the ReckonerWRB
:boros:Tajic, Soldier Tribal:boros:
:dimir:Lazav, I Drink Your Milkshake:dimir:
WUGRafiq, the BanthammerWUG
:izzet:Melek, Chaos Hug:izzet:
:symr:Krenko, C-C-C-Combo!:sympr:
Yeah Life's Finale at 6 CMC is the closest to DoJ that I get. Additionally, I don't have to pitch any cards if I don't have reanimation available. If I have equipment on korlash, or a lash on anything else, That creature can live around mutilate. Those seem like the 2 best options to work around keeping Korlash on the field.
I picked up Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed for the deck last night to go along with the Dimir house guard I'd already picked up. I',m going to work on slotting these guys in soon. I'm also going to slot in a Phyrexian Reclaimation to work with these two. I'll probably look at a bit more reanimation to give the deck more grindyness (Corpse Dance Maybe?). I may try to put Nether Traitor and Reassembling Skeleton to give me a higher sword carrier density, and add in Skullclamp to up the draw. The deck really needs solid draw early to fire on all cylinders. I want a lowerish curve to make my card slots more valuable early on.
I'm looking at a poison package with Tainted strike definitely in and Grafted Exoskeleton and Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon as possibilities. Poison can speed Korlash up killing by a turn or two, and can amp up the power of the other creature slots.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Um, keep note that Life's Finale strictly pulls cards out of an opponents library. It'd be way too good if it was a DoJ with a Buried Alive attached to it for a sweet 6 mana. It's still great nonetheless.
Ask your meta about Infect. Mine uses "20 is the death # for infect. As life is doubled from 20 to 40, infect should follow the same ratio". If thats the case, than it's next to useless imo.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
Yeah I'm aware Life's Finale only hits the opponent's yard. I could only wish it hit my yard too.
My playgroup uses 10 as infect, but infect hasn't been too prevalent either. It raises our power level at 10, but also could draw ire. I may sneak it in and see how it works in practice. What I'm not a fan of is KO'ing one player too early and having them sit and twiddle thumbs for a while.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Yeah, I don't like early RFGs also. If i'm going to RFG one player, I set out to finish the rest later. Having killed someone it's almost as if it puts a bounty on your head.
Personally, I wouldn't bother with infect unless thats the theme of the deck. It's a liability if you get someone to 9 infect, then the equipment is destroyed/exiled. Does applying infect still apply points toward general damage? I've never really thought about it before, but is it still general damage or a replacement effect?
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
I stopped by my LGS and picked up several of the cards on my list. Still working the deck towards where I want it and they didn't have all the cards I wanted, but I like these changes and think they are improvements. A lot of the changes both add utility and help lower the curve. I haven't got Xiahou Dun, the One-eyed or Dimir House Guard in the mail yet that will both definitely both be in the deck. Mutilate, Skullclamp, and Ambition's cost are also on my hit list when I can find a copy. Bob...if we get the curve low and like the way its firing, I'll look at him. Just running the math in my spreadsheet, these changes lower my average CMC from 3.758 to 3.246.
Yeah infect I'll likely pass on for now. As you say, I need 10 in one shot or its basically worthless. I'm 95% sure poison counters don't count as commander damage so that is essentially a waste of a valuable turn.
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
WU Grand Arbiter Augustin IV WU
WBG Karador, Ghost Chieftan WBG
B Korlash, Heir to Blackblade B
RU Tibor and Lumia RU
'He tasks me! He tasks me, and I shall have him!' - Khan Noonien Singh
Btw, you aplarently removed lord of the Void for two things according to the aforementioned post.
UBRSedris, the Necromancer KingUBR
In the mean time, I think the only infect worth this deck is inkmoth nexus. That guy has proven on multiple occasions he is willing to be the only infect and still take care of business. I have had bad experiences with skitherex splitting his damage. Inkmoth you don't feel bad when it doesn't work. He can be a great alt win con, you already have the support for it. It can also swing in the turn you wrath. The real reason though is inkmoth doesn't exactly need much in the way of deck slots.
Keep an eye on withering boon. I bought one for xhd and took it out after 3-4 games. That deck has a little more destruction this this one, and I was finding myself asking 'why keep mana out for a counter when I am just going to clear the board away anyways'. I am curious what you think of it after you get some games in with it.
I love that necrogen mists, I just pulled one out for wort. If you have a liliana of the veil, she might serve as another one. Liliana of the dark realms could be great here too. All of her abilities rock for a big mana black deck, shes an all-star in xhd, you might like her in chainer too.
One(two... I lied) last mana card(s) worth consideration. You have a general and half a dozen cards that get better the more swamps you have. Thawing Glaciers, and depending on draw, snagging another copy of terrain generator for this deck could be helpful.
Gitrog Lands
Merieke Ri Berit Flicker
Ramos, Dragon Engine Storm