I wanted this card always to be good in cube. I counted my enchantments and got about 20 relevant targets it can grab. It came back in my mind with the addition of the black Pox Package and listening to a podcast.
Unless you want to add cards like Debtor's Knell the card is more a value guy than a card that finds an actual win condition, but maybe "only" finding Sylvan Library or Nether Void is good enough?
It's only okay as a utility card because the initial mana investment is so high. Unless I have some bomb targets floating around in the cube (at 450, I'd want 4 of 'em) I can't see justifying it.
I think Omniscience is going a bit too deep. The card only combos with Rector, Show and Tell, and Eureka of all cards i can think of that see play in cubes. The other "big" enchantments are solid control finishers and ramp targes that can reasonably be hardcast and see play in archtypes other than Rector + X. Omniscience is the worst ramp target I can think of- if you've ramped that hard, just cast whatevr it was you were going to Omniscience into play.
The other three are cool Rector targets though.
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Power creep has really killed this fellas (?) usefulness in several ways:
- Creatures have gotten more powerful at less cost.
- Enchantments have not experienced a power creep, and possibly have experienced a power reduction.
- Games are easier to win through a ground wall now, mostly due to planeswalkers.
Really, the only bonus Rector has had recently is the rise of sac outlets, which has had a small impact on value.
I think Omniscience is going a bit too deep. The card only combos with Rector, Show and Tell, and Eureka of all cards i can think of that see play in cubes. The other "big" enchantments are solid control finishers and ramp targes that can reasonably be hardcast and see play in archtypes other than Rector + X. Omniscience is the worst ramp target I can think of- if you've ramped that hard, just cast whatevr it was you were going to Omniscience into play.
The other three are cool Rector targets though.
And that's one of the problems. it's a good utility card because there's a lot of utility targets. But it's too expensive to only use in that one role, so I want some bombs to go along with it. And there aren't really enough good ones, and there aren't any that I'd cube with if Rector wasn't in the list. That's kinda a problem.
i just think the bombs should be usable outside of working just with Rector and maybe 2 other cards. out of 4 bombs listed, 3 are playale without "cheating", Omniscience isn't, even if it is castable (unlikely).
Are there any other bomb enchantments?
I did a gather search for enchantments with CMC 6 or higher, though really CMC 5 is worth it with rector and under certain circumstances things like Treachery could be considered genuine bombs. I am only considering cards that are woth ramping into in addition to cheating. Here's what I came up with:
-If you include un cards, Ach! Hans, Run! could be quite insane. The mana is a bit rough, but certainly castable in ramp and it's very very good as a combination tutor + sneak attack for no mana.
- Collective Blessing - it's trample short of a permanent Overrun and makes tokens into monsters. Almost cubable already.
- Eldrazi Conscription - good enough I think if you have a bunch of Hexproof guys. Certainly debatable, but ends games quickly.
My point is that the same statement applies to Omniscience, but even more so. The cards above at least have uses outside Rector, where Omniscience truly doesn't.
I think a case could be made for Collective Blessing or True Conviction, but certainly none of the others.
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My point is that the same statement applies to Omniscience, but even more so.
I don't think we're actually disagreeing on any particular point. I think both cards are too narrow, unless you add in a bunch of cards to make them worthwhile.
I think Rector is actually fine (it's in my cube), but only becuase I run several bomby enchantments like Bargain and Form of the Dragon, and I even don't mind getting something like Treachery with him.
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I don't run it because I'd feel compelled to run more enchantments -- many of which I think are boring/not where I want to be otherwise. You should also consider worship and oblivion ring as solid grabs AR can build towards. Doesn't always have to be the home-run spell. Form of the Dragon, should you run it, is just nasty to combo into lol. At the moment I can't see myself supporting Rector because I don't want to run those home-run cards. I prefer 4cc white to be a strong beater or util dude a la Restoration Angel
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I mean, hell, we're all on a forum for something that most people would describe as a "children's card game"...do what makes you happy. You are never too old to enjoy yourself.
I just added Yawgmoth's Bargain back, trying to get better Rector targets, but this thread has made me think that maybe I should just get rid of Rector..
I used to consider him a staple, but he really does not do enough until he's dead - even then you need a couple of bomb targets in your deck to justify the slot. The effect you grab with him should really be worth at least 6 mana in order to justify having spent 4 mana on one mana's worth of creature, and having to wait for the Rector to die before being able to profit in any way.
I used to consider him a staple, but he really does not do enough until he's dead - even then you need a couple of bomb targets in your deck to justify the slot. The effect you grab with him should really be worth at least 6 mana in order to justify having spent 4 mana on one mana's worth of creature, and having to wait for the Rector to die before being able to profit in any way.
That is one way to look at it and the reason I cut it. But another way to look at it and the reason I might bring it back is that with Rector, a few sac outlets, a tutor and a bomb target, you could have a fun Form of the Dragon or wonky Debtors' Knell deck to draft for players who dislike nothing more than efficient, streamlined decks.
Rector was in early iterations of my list and cut. I recently added it back with the addition of several high-power enchantments and as a means to help push a mini enchantments-matter theme.
As for white 4-drops being clogged, I don't really see that as a reasonable excuse to exclude Rector. It performs a very specific function. Since when should unlike cards be competing for slots? When I look to add something like Rector, the last place I'm looking is to remove something like Hero of Bladehold. If I have an extra 4-drop because I have to remove a 3/5-drop, then so be it.
Rector was in early iterations of my list and cut. I recently added it back with the addition of several high-power enchantments and as a means to help push a mini enchantments-matter theme.
As for white 4-drops being clogged, I don't really see that as a reasonable excuse to exclude Rector. It performs a very specific function. Since when should unlike cards be competing for slots? When I look to add something like Rector, the last place I'm looking is to remove something like Hero of Bladehold. If I have an extra 4-drop because I have to remove a 3/5-drop, then so be it.
It's not something I bought up on this card, but I think it is a valid argument. I understand what you're saying about the fact he's a specific roleplayer, but there are other cards the control or combo deck wants at 4 CMC, including sweepers and PWs, and many of these effects may need to be played as soon as possible to get their full effect. I know he still fulfills a specfic role and that should play a role in considering the card, but the CMC still needs to be taken into account when constructing your deck and manabase. Even for specific roleplayers. I don't want a hand full of 4 CMC cards regardless of their jobs.
Of course I'd be happy to remove a 3 or 5 drop (or even 1 or 2 or 6) for this guy, but I'd be happier to cut a like-for-like mana wise to ensure you get don't 4 CMC saturation in your drafts. Many people's 4 CMC slots are already chock full with strong cards and that makes cuts in that area difficult.
I just added Yawgmoth's Bargain back, trying to get better Rector targets, but this thread has made me think that maybe I should just get rid of Rector..
Well it's hard to say if you should or shouldn't - there are three primary considerations: 1) How good are enchantments in your cube? 1a)How good is the enchantment removal in your cube? 2) How many enchantments do you have in your cube? 2a) Are there any substitutions you could make of a roughly equal power level that would give the rector added utility? 3) How powerful do you want Rector to be, in relation to the rest of your cube?
I guess that last question is the most relevant. Rector is ripe for abuse; he's both a tutor and puts the card directly into play, which saves you mana. Similar to Tinker, he's only as good as his potential targets. So in a non-powered cube where you are trying to encourage creature combat and a back-and-forth play, Rector wouldn't be appropriate if there were targets like Knell or Form. But in that same theoretical cube, Rector is fine if the best targets are Mind Control, Faith's Fetters, Oblivion Ring, etc.
Ultimately, I think the unique effect, the splashable mana cost, the potential power level, and the dies trigger (forcing interaction with your opponent or another enabler) all work to make the card interesting and fun. I'd recommend to any designer they run this guy, and just tinker with the power of the available enchantments until it's just right.
The difference between Tinker and Rector is that the bomb targets are playable in multiple decks. Without an Academy Rector in my deck, I don't think I'd play Form of the Dragon or Debtors' Knell in much of anything.
There's speculation that Theros block might have an enchantment theme or subtheme and that we might even see some enchantment creatures similar to Lucent Liminid. If that ends up being true, maybe we'll see a bomb creature that can work with both Rector and reanimator.
There's speculation that Theros block might have an enchantment theme or subtheme and that we might even see some enchantment creatures similar to Lucent Liminid. If that ends up being true, maybe we'll see a bomb creature that can work with both Rector and reanimator.
It's not something I bought up on this card, but I think it is a valid argument. I understand what you're saying about the fact he's a specific roleplayer, but there are other cards the control or combo deck wants at 4 CMC, including sweepers and PWs, and many of these effects may need to be played as soon as possible to get their full effect. I know he still fulfills a specfic role and that should play a role in considering the card, but the CMC still needs to be taken into account when constructing your deck and manabase. Even for specific roleplayers. I don't want a hand full of 4 CMC cards regardless of their jobs.
Of course I'd be happy to remove a 3 or 5 drop (or even 1 or 2 or 6) for this guy, but I'd be happier to cut a like-for-like mana wise to ensure you get don't 4 CMC saturation in your drafts. Many people's 4 CMC slots are already chock full with strong cards and that makes cuts in that area difficult.
If Rector is going to get me an enchantment that puts me WAY ahead, then I'd probably want to run it out there before anything else. It could block for a PW that comes down on the following turn, or trigger off of the wrath that's coming.
I definitely think that cube design should be mindful of mana costs, making sure that decks have options to build smooth mana curves. But Rector's easy mana cost means any drafter who wants him can pick him up and splash white, meaning he's not always competing for the same space as other "white four drops."
This is largely cube dependent, on how powerful of a target he's getting. If the cube has targets that are likely going to win the game, then Rector's a combo piece and isn't competing against other 4-mana spells. But if your cube just has "average" targets like Oblivion Ring and nothing abusive, then yes, it's time to start comparing Rector vs. your other 4-drop options.
I wanted this card always to be good in cube. I counted my enchantments and got about 20 relevant targets it can grab. It came back in my mind with the addition of the black Pox Package and listening to a podcast.
Unless you want to add cards like Debtor's Knell the card is more a value guy than a card that finds an actual win condition, but maybe "only" finding Sylvan Library or Nether Void is good enough?
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But add in Omniscience, Form of the Dragon, Yawgmoth's Bargain and Debtors' Knell ...and you've got yourself a really scary dude.
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The other three are cool Rector targets though.
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- Creatures have gotten more powerful at less cost.
- Enchantments have not experienced a power creep, and possibly have experienced a power reduction.
- Games are easier to win through a ground wall now, mostly due to planeswalkers.
Really, the only bonus Rector has had recently is the rise of sac outlets, which has had a small impact on value.
And that's one of the problems. it's a good utility card because there's a lot of utility targets. But it's too expensive to only use in that one role, so I want some bombs to go along with it. And there aren't really enough good ones, and there aren't any that I'd cube with if Rector wasn't in the list. That's kinda a problem.
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Are there any other bomb enchantments?
I did a gather search for enchantments with CMC 6 or higher, though really CMC 5 is worth it with rector and under certain circumstances things like Treachery could be considered genuine bombs. I am only considering cards that are woth ramping into in addition to cheating. Here's what I came up with:
-If you include un cards, Ach! Hans, Run! could be quite insane. The mana is a bit rough, but certainly castable in ramp and it's very very good as a combination tutor + sneak attack for no mana.
- Collective Blessing - it's trample short of a permanent Overrun and makes tokens into monsters. Almost cubable already.
- Eldrazi Conscription - good enough I think if you have a bunch of Hexproof guys. Certainly debatable, but ends games quickly.
- Grave Betrayal - a monocolored Debtor's Knell with upside and a restriction.
- Havoc Festival this is going pretty deep, but it ends the game FAST.
- Martyr's Bond this card is really gross in sacrifice decks.
- Mind over Matter - quad blue is alot, but there's about a billion ways to end the game once you have this in play
- Rage Reflection - double strike is an insane ability...
- True Conviction - ... espeicallty when your guys have Lifelink
A lot of these are pretty questionable, but if you want to support Rector to the Nth degree I think they're all better than Omniscience.
Also, maybe we can get something nutty out of YMTC
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I think a case could be made for Collective Blessing or True Conviction, but certainly none of the others.
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I don't think we're actually disagreeing on any particular point. I think both cards are too narrow, unless you add in a bunch of cards to make them worthwhile.
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As for white 4-drops being clogged, I don't really see that as a reasonable excuse to exclude Rector. It performs a very specific function. Since when should unlike cards be competing for slots? When I look to add something like Rector, the last place I'm looking is to remove something like Hero of Bladehold. If I have an extra 4-drop because I have to remove a 3/5-drop, then so be it.
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It's not something I bought up on this card, but I think it is a valid argument. I understand what you're saying about the fact he's a specific roleplayer, but there are other cards the control or combo deck wants at 4 CMC, including sweepers and PWs, and many of these effects may need to be played as soon as possible to get their full effect. I know he still fulfills a specfic role and that should play a role in considering the card, but the CMC still needs to be taken into account when constructing your deck and manabase. Even for specific roleplayers. I don't want a hand full of 4 CMC cards regardless of their jobs.
Of course I'd be happy to remove a 3 or 5 drop (or even 1 or 2 or 6) for this guy, but I'd be happier to cut a like-for-like mana wise to ensure you get don't 4 CMC saturation in your drafts. Many people's 4 CMC slots are already chock full with strong cards and that makes cuts in that area difficult.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
Well it's hard to say if you should or shouldn't - there are three primary considerations: 1) How good are enchantments in your cube? 1a)How good is the enchantment removal in your cube? 2) How many enchantments do you have in your cube? 2a) Are there any substitutions you could make of a roughly equal power level that would give the rector added utility? 3) How powerful do you want Rector to be, in relation to the rest of your cube?
I guess that last question is the most relevant. Rector is ripe for abuse; he's both a tutor and puts the card directly into play, which saves you mana. Similar to Tinker, he's only as good as his potential targets. So in a non-powered cube where you are trying to encourage creature combat and a back-and-forth play, Rector wouldn't be appropriate if there were targets like Knell or Form. But in that same theoretical cube, Rector is fine if the best targets are Mind Control, Faith's Fetters, Oblivion Ring, etc.
Ultimately, I think the unique effect, the splashable mana cost, the potential power level, and the dies trigger (forcing interaction with your opponent or another enabler) all work to make the card interesting and fun. I'd recommend to any designer they run this guy, and just tinker with the power of the available enchantments until it's just right.
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That would be kick ass.
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On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
If Rector is going to get me an enchantment that puts me WAY ahead, then I'd probably want to run it out there before anything else. It could block for a PW that comes down on the following turn, or trigger off of the wrath that's coming.
I definitely think that cube design should be mindful of mana costs, making sure that decks have options to build smooth mana curves. But Rector's easy mana cost means any drafter who wants him can pick him up and splash white, meaning he's not always competing for the same space as other "white four drops."
This is largely cube dependent, on how powerful of a target he's getting. If the cube has targets that are likely going to win the game, then Rector's a combo piece and isn't competing against other 4-mana spells. But if your cube just has "average" targets like Oblivion Ring and nothing abusive, then yes, it's time to start comparing Rector vs. your other 4-drop options.
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