Updated as of 29/4/2013 (26 cards in 26 cards out)
Sorted by Mana Cost, sorry it's not in alphabetical order :\
About a year ago i hated cube. Absolutely hated it. I didnt get it. I was very intimidated and didnt fully understand. I am fairly new to magic (compared to some) and it was just really not enjoyable. Then, about 8 months ago GP Vancouver happened and i found out about the booze cube. The booze cube ended up being awesome and i decided to give cube another shot. Since then i have been cubing about once a week and trying to create the best cube for me and my players to have a great time.
It isnt just a mish mash of the best cards, it is a little of column A and a little of column B. Let me know what you think
P.s. i tried to post this before, because people asked me to, but i didnt get a whole lot of feedback, people have been asking me for it again, so i decided to post it one more time. Happy cubing
First, thanks for posting your cube, Jay. As someone working on his first list, it will be helpful to see an example of someone who is still making big changes to their cube.
I have a few questions and comments, hope others chime in.
- You mentioned on Joy of Cubing that you just made a 47 card change. Could you talk about a few of the changes?
- Have you considered Shrine of Loyal Legions? Is there a token deck in the cube?
- Is Goblin tribal good enough to support a deck? Does it simply give Mono-R a unique flavor?
- Love Trusty Machete, glad to see it in.
- Thoughts (if any) on the other Ravnica guildmages? I like Selesnya a lot myself.
- What function does Demigod of Revenge serve as a one-of?
- How are the RTR and GTC guildmages playing? Particularly curious about Vizkopa. Thoughts on adding Sunhome?
- How does the UG deck play out in your cube? Is Shardless Agent good?
- How's Mister Chemister played so far? I want the UR Teleportal deck from RTR to be playable in my cube and I'd like this guy to be in there.
- Has celestial purge been good? Seems a little narrow.
- Hidetsugu's Second Rite? I listened to Shaheen Soorani on your show talk about first-picking this card all day. Have you found it to be as interesting as he did?
Welcome to the Cube Community!
Plaque Boiler seems slow ... I'd run Oblivion Stone instead if you still want that effect.
Your Percentage of Gold is still pretty high IMO. Your percentage is close to 13% which is 2 per pack. I have found 1 per pack to be more ideal ... YMMV though.
Also eidolon's comparison suggested additions list is the perfect list to find cards you may have missed or would like to pick up to add later.
Thank you for sharing your Cube. Love the Eh Team and it was great hearing you on Kranstuber's podcast. It is great connecting your thoughts to your Cube list.
I'm sorry that I cannot give meaningful feedback because I focus on Peasant Cube.
How has the balance between power-level of individual cards weighed against the 'fun factor' or 'uniqueness' of effects, affected what choices you made when including cards? Like, Zameck Guildmage (a decent draft pick, but not common in cubes) alongside cube powerhouse staples (Swords of X and Y). Your cube has a lot of these cards that look really fun to see what happens when they're put together, and less of the typical just 'best cards in magic' that many cubes have (I imagine this is partly due to how you started liking cube, with the booze cube).
Basically, it would be cool to know the decisions that led you to how you developed your list compared to others. Have you played some other cubes and just didn't want the same experience?
I figure whatever the answers are to these questions, it's probably cool to keep them in mind in the future whenever you update your cube, to make sure it's always the cube that *you* want to play.
Loved you on the Joy of Cubing episode. Keep up the 'whole being' awesome thing.
First, thanks for posting your cube, Jay. As someone working on his first list, it will be helpful to see an example of someone who is still making big changes to their cube.
I have a few questions and comments, hope others chime in.
- You mentioned on Joy of Cubing that you just made a 47 card change. Could you talk about a few of the changes?
- Have you considered Shrine of Loyal Legions? Is there a token deck in the cube?
- Is Goblin tribal good enough to support a deck? Does it simply give Mono-R a unique flavor?
- Love Trusty Machete, glad to see it in.
- Thoughts (if any) on the other Ravnica guildmages? I like Selesnya a lot myself.
- What function does Demigod of Revenge serve as a one-of?
- How are the RTR and GTC guildmages playing? Particularly curious about Vizkopa. Thoughts on adding Sunhome?
- How does the UG deck play out in your cube? Is Shardless Agent good?
- How's Mister Chemister played so far? I want the UR Teleportal deck from RTR to be playable in my cube and I'd like this guy to be in there.
- Has celestial purge been good? Seems a little narrow.
- Hidetsugu's Second Rite? I listened to Shaheen Soorani on your show talk about first-picking this card all day. Have you found it to be as interesting as he did?
Again, thanks for posting your list.
--Jake
Hi Jake, thanks for the questions, please let me know if you have more, and please find my answers below
- It was closer to a 90 card change, as i learned from Kranny that it counts cards in and out. I would love, unfortunately i dont have my cube in front of me right now, do you have any specific questions? Off the top of my head i made a lot of changes from "non traditional" cards to more traditional ones, like adding kukusho and removing some big dumb 6 drop.
- I have considered Shrine of Loyal Legions but did not add it because there wasnt a token deck before, i have been looking at it more closely lately, especially since i have added doubling season. What are your thoughts? Is there a way for me to add a token deck easily?
My main issue with adding things like elves/tokens/other decks is that it generally means that another deck has to be removed or suffer, i dont know how to avoid that, or if i should be trying.
- Goblin tribal: it's a little of column a and column b, there are about 20 (i think?) goblins, most of them are good enough on their own or are at least beneficial and i believe that they are better when drafter around mono red. What are your thoughts?
- Is trusty machete not a normal pick? its been very strong for me and my players, im glad you like it (EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE i have a foil coming!!)
- When you say "other" do you mean original? I had most of them in there, to me they are mostly unexiting and relics of "old" magic, where everything was "thematic" and....i dunno, bad? Most of them seem like over costed ****ty.....****. Thoughts?
- Demigod of Revenge serves as a 5 power dragon with haste, he goes in mono black, br, and mono red, as well as some other fringe reanimator decks, 5 haste is very good, and the red decks generally dont have a problem casting him
- The new guilmages are basically just to fill slots, and to test, im always looking for new good cards, sleepers. Sunhome was in here, it wasnt very good, the format/decks that wanted that card were either too fast or wanted a 2/2 for 2 that was more reliable to cast. Vizopka hasnt seen a whole lot of play, but when it does, it is a houssssssssssssse. What do you think?
- So far the UG deck is very good, but generally i am the only one that drafts it, its a "newer" deck that i have been fixing and i dont think most people trust it. So far i am XX-0 with it, which i think is a good record for match wins. Shardless agent can be very good, other times it can be less good, i find its better in the decks that have low equipment or unblockable dudes. He is not as good as BBE obviously, but he is a fun card, and you can almost guarantee youre going to get him.
- UR isnt a great deck in the cube (yet) so mister chemister isnt super great, but the decks that can use him tell me that he is a bomb, just like in RTR limited. He is just soooo much card advantage, hes like a better tibalt.
- While cards like celestial purge and disenchant are "narrow" they are very necessary evils, i feel. I like having cards that reward players for drafting for their bad matchups. It feels really good when you are drafting white and notice many red and or black problem cards that you arent interested in and you get a purge, it feels really good.
To me there is a difference between cards going undrafted because they are unfun, or bad, or dont fit, and being narrow or sideboard cards.
- Holy ****, **** HIDETSUGUS SECOND RITE. That godamn card. I have died to it twice, it is ****ING RANK. It has killed no less than 4 people since i added it recently. Its the robot large fraud monies tssstststststs.
Welcome to the Cube Community!
Plaque Boiler seems slow ... I'd run Oblivion Stone instead if you still want that effect.
Your Percentage of Gold is still pretty high IMO. Your percentage is close to 13% which is 2 per pack. I have found 1 per pack to be more ideal ... YMMV though.
Also eidolon's comparison suggested additions list is the perfect list to find cards you may have missed or would like to pick up to add later.
Hi Shalazar, thanks for the feedback. I found oblivion stone was very very very slow and recently cut it for plague boiler. I have heard the same from some people but i am interested to see how it plays out, i might and probably will just end up going back to o stone though.
The gold cards are probably high, but they add complexity and fun to the cube, so far we havent had any complaints and it seems to be working out, although i can see what you are saying, maybe i will try an cut some
Eidolon's comparison is and was great, i have ordered many new cards am excited to try them out!
Thank you for sharing your Cube. Love the Eh Team and it was great hearing you on Kranstuber's podcast. It is great connecting your thoughts to your Cube list.
I'm sorry that I cannot give meaningful feedback because I focus on Peasant Cube.
Hey thanks Spamtrash, im glad you like the show and Kranny was and is the ****ing baus!
Hey Ninja Bob, im glad you like it! Thanks for listening!!!
How has the balance between power-level of individual cards weighed against the 'fun factor' or 'uniqueness' of effects, affected what choices you made when including cards? Like, Zameck Guildmage (a decent draft pick, but not common in cubes) alongside cube powerhouse staples (Swords of X and Y). Your cube has a lot of these cards that look really fun to see what happens when they're put together, and less of the typical just 'best cards in magic' that many cubes have (I imagine this is partly due to how you started liking cube, with the booze cube).
Basically, it would be cool to know the decisions that led you to how you developed your list compared to others. Have you played some other cubes and just didn't want the same experience?
I figure whatever the answers are to these questions, it's probably cool to keep them in mind in the future whenever you update your cube, to make sure it's always the cube that *you* want to play.
Loved you on the Joy of Cubing episode. Keep up the 'whole being' awesome thing.
Hey Bwian, Im glad you like the episode, i am so greateful that he asked me to be on, it was an honor!
I try to balance my cube in terms of power level, and of course you want to play powerful cards, but fun cards, in my opinion, need to be present too, as long as your group enjoys them, at least a little bit. Cards like Zameck guildmage are arguably very underpower, especially when compared to cards like the swords, but have seen some play and have caused some games to be absolute blowouts. In all honesty, Zameck guildmage is a pet card of mine (i ****ing love UG) but he sadly had to go, in my most recent cut.
You are right, a lot of the cards, especially the "under powered" ones come from my humble beginnings of cube. Also the fact that i think copying the cube would just be boring, i dont want to just play the best 400 cards week in week out, that seems like trash. My favorite thing to do is try NEW cards and new deck ideas, often times i find cards that are "the absolute ****ing worst" actually can and are pretty good with a little help from some other powerful cards.
For example, i notice that behemoth sledge isnt in a lot of cubes, but so far it has been very good for me. Adversely, Jitte is almost unanimously in cubes with a high power level and i took mine out because it was sooooooo ****ing opressive and newer players either didnt know how to play it or didnt know how to play against it. It led to a lot of un fun games, and while it is a good card, i dont want anyone having unfun games when they play with me
I'd love some feedback, let me know what you think, glad you enjoyed it, thanks again.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to give me feedback. Again, im sorry that i didnt reply earlier, i had no idea anyone even replied. Have a great night!
Hey Jay! Big fan of the Eh Team Podcast. I listened to your latest episode (#125) and I heard you say Boros was under-drafted/played in your Cube. That kind of blew my mind as I felt Boros aggro tends to be one of the easier archetypes to make work in Cube and I know its super sweet in my Cube. As such, I thought I'd go through your list and make suggestions with the aim to improve Boros style decks.
Also, a tip for the future, I'd separate creatures and spells from each other in some manner and organize multi-color/hybrid by color instead of CMC. It just makes it much easier to others to give feedback.
Where are Savannah Lions and Isamaru, Hound of Konda? Student of Warfare is white intensive but it can get out of hand pretty quickly and hits HARD. The most important thing one must do when supporting aggressive decks is assuring that you have enough redundancy. Hitting the critial mass is crucial and I don't think your one drop suite cuts it. I'm also skeptical of Soltari Foot Soldier cause it only has one power but maybe it has been doing good work for you? I'd also move Loam Lion to G/W since it needs a forest to be good but I recognize that different people will classify their cards differently and its more of a preference than a"right"/"wrong" thing.
I see a LOT of WW cards in here. Soltari Preist and Monk are staples; the others are good but expendable. When encouraging multicolor decks/aggro, you have to be very careful of double CC cards, especially at the two drop slot. Try cards like Mistral Charger, Stormfront Pegasus, Knight of Glory, Accorder Paladin, Kor Skfisher, etc. They may not all seem crazy but they are less matchup dependent and much easier on the mana.
Do you need Timely Reinforcements? That cards tends to CRUSH aggro. Solatri Champion is a big omission for aggro decks. Glorious Anthem would also be nice. I'm big fans of Kor Sanctifiers (though it's not really an aggro card) and Flickerwisp (which is great for getting blockers out of the way, is evasive, abuses ETB effects, etc).I'd move Lingering Souls to Orzhov but again that's a preference thing.
Do you have enough Humans to make Riders of Gavony work? I haven't counted so maybe you do, I'm just asking. Armageddon and Ravages of Wat are quintesential white aggro cards. I don't know how you feel about them (do you hate mass LD?) but any and all white aggressive decks in Cube are worse off with their absence. Sublime Archangel is also a strong, though not required, card.
Shock straight up isn't a playable MTGCube card. Magma Spray and Flame Slash are ok cards but I'd rather have Chain Lightning and Forked Bolt since they can hit players AND creatures which is super important in aggro decks. I'd also want to get Jackal Pup in here if I can. Move Kird Ape to Gruul? If you're trying to work in a Goblin subtheme consider Legion Loyalist?
I think Keldon Vandals, Arc Lightning, Flames of the Firebrand, Pillage and Sulfuric Vortex are pretty big aggressive omissions from this group. Hellraiser Goblin is more apt to backfire than anything but maybe its tested well for you? Traitorous Blood just seems worse than Threaten, the extra R isn't worth the trample. Ball Lightning is fine but also Mono-Red exclusive, I'm not sure if you're fine with that or not. Since you seem to be supporting a Goblin subtheme, consider Pyrewild Shaman when it comes out in DGM?
Cinder Elemental is pretty much the pits. Cut that for any suggestion I've made earlier. I assume Second Rite is a fun/pet card so I'd say cut it but you're obviously playing it cause you think it super fun.
I assume Hellkite Charger and Flameblast Dragon are for G/R ramp decks? I don't think they are crucial cards at all but it really depends what you're trying to support with their inclusion. I think they are fine cuts but again that's up to you.
This is a great reanimation ramp target and I think better for those kinds of decks than Charger/Flameblast. A fattie you should really consider is Greater Gargadon. It suspends for cheap but its a great sac outlet, can provide a hastey beater out of nowhere and really put the fear of God into your opponent. They now have to play EVERY turn like you had a 9/7 haste dude out and that can really be to your advantage.
Hybrid:Boros Reckoner and Duergar Hedge-Mage are the next best hybrids after the AMAZING Figure of Destiny and should be given consideration. Avatar of Discord is not a good card (too much risk for the reward) and Shattering Blow is probably better replaced by the upcoming Wear//Tear.
Multicolor:I'm not seeing Lightning Helix in that list. That's a pretty big omission IMO. Goblin Legionnaire isn't that much better than Ember Hauler but it encourages Boros rather than incentives against it. I think Truefire Paladin is a fine card for larger lists like yours. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and Aurelia, the Warleader are fantastic top-end cards but I don't know if you're looking for cards like those. Slayer's Stronghold is very strong a a good card to put in your land slots. Your multicolor section could use some trimming or maybe you need to make it more clear what archetypes you're trying to support with each color pair. However, I didn't see any weak R/W cards. Obviously you should just add EVERY card I mentioned but rahter the ones you like and think will achieve your desired end game.
These are just my opinions and not gospel. Hopefully I was able to be helpful
Hi Croc! Thanks for the help and praise and opinions! I have answered some of the questions you asked below, and really appreciate that you took the time to go though this. I look forward to continuing this conversation
These are glaring exclusions, i have not been able to find any yet, and are on the top of my list to include.
I'm also skeptical of Soltari Foot Soldier cause it only has one power but maybe it has been doing good work for you?
It had been doing good, with things like swords and anthems, but it has recently been cut, because he is garbage. You'll notice that a lot of card choices (including this one) are based on whether or not the card is available to me for a reasonable price. The cube is a living thing and is constantly changing, and a lot of the card selection has to do with what i have.
I see a LOT of WW cards in here. Soltari Preist and Monk are staples; the others are good but expendable. When encouraging multicolor decks/aggro, you have to be very careful of double CC cards, especially at the two drop slot. Try cards like Mistral Charger, Stormfront Pegasus, Knight of Glory, Accorder Paladin, Kor Skfisher, etc. They may not all seem crazy but they are less matchup dependent and much easier on the mana.
I dont want my cube to just be a bunch of decks, i like that every single time we play the decks are different, that being said, i suppose it is true that too many double casting cost creatures hinders "aggro". I have been searching for foils of the above cards for many moons, when i find them, they are in! Hell, as commons, even finding regular versions can be tough. I did have a sky fisher in there but people werent drafting it because of the draw back not being worth the "advantage" of 2 power flying on turn 2. Not sure why but...
This is a card i always come back to, but in white alone there are many humans, and my players have said that they believe it is also good enough, maybe not though....
Armageddon and Ravages of Wat are quintesential white aggro cards. I don't know how you feel about them (do you hate mass LD?)
I absolutely ****ing hate mass LD, i have just ordered a judge foil geddon though, because i realize going T1, T2, T3 guy into geddon is the way the aggro decks win, the problem is when control decks use it to drag out an unfun game.
I am not a big fan of this card, especially not for all the dollareedoos it costs for some reason. I find in cube you have sooo much more removal than in a regular standard environment, a card like this is going to be a trap a lot of the time. Maybe im wrong? it just seems like its always a blow out, either for the person who played it, or the person holding doomblade
Why? It's always drafted early when its opened and always kills something, it doesnt seem bad in a 600 card cube, maybe in 320 when you are cutting things like Jack the Ripper.
Not sure why its not in the list, jackal pup is in the cube and always has been :/ i'll fix that.
If you're trying to work in a Goblin subtheme consider Legion Loyalist?
Why is he good? What am i missing?
Just as in White, we have more CC cards than we probably need. Blood Knight is a pretty matchup dependent card and isn't needed and Ember Hauler is good but I'm not sure its worth the CC cost (that's an opinion, not a fact though). I'd keep my eyes on Keldon Marauders, Gore-House Chainwalker, Torch Fiend and Fire Slinger. All relative high impact cards with easy mana costs.
Blood knight fits a theme (i know, not a power reason, but still) and in an aggro deck is a 2/2 fs for 2 not good? I mean yeah, in boros probably not, but mono red never complains about this guy...
I have just ordered some marauders, im over the chain walker, i dont know why soooo many people have him in the cube, is he that good? I like the idea of adding torch fiend instead of Ancient Grudge as you suggested.
I think Flunkies and Skinbrand are fine cards but probably worse than some of the other cards I've mentioned. Then again it seems you're supporting a Goblin subtheme which probably makes those harder to cut.
This is true, and my players really like them, every time they are cut, i get complaints haha.
You're probably right, but i dont just want to copy the "best" cube lists, the problem with doing that, even for just 1 or 2 colours, is that it causes imbalance issues with the other colours and decks. I will look into these none the less.
Hellraiser Goblin is more apt to backfire than anything but maybe its tested well for you?
It has, very well.
Traitorous Blood just seems worse than Threaten, the extra R isn't worth the trample. Ball Lightning is fine but also Mono-Red exclusive, I'm not sure if you're fine with that or not.
Meh, right now im trying to focus on cards i dont have rather than the whole "strictly better" argument, not that i am not storing away all of this information, but im not going to go out of my way to find a threaten when there are 10 other options i have available to me right now is all.
Since you seem to be supporting a Goblin subtheme, consider Pyrewild Shaman when it comes out in DGM?
Is that the one that is 3/1 and can re-cur for 3 if you deal dmg? Yeah probably.
Cinder Elemental[/B] is pretty much the pits. Cut that for any suggestion I've made earlier.
I dont see what is so bad about it, if we are talking about boros, then yeah, you probably want something that impacts the board more for 4, but i've been killed many times by the fireball man.
I assume Second Rite is a fun/pet card so I'd say cut it but you're obviously playing it cause you think it super fun.
They are actually popping up in many decks as finishers, a 5/5 dragon with fireball every turn will quickly end your life. Hell kite charger has seen play in red/x midranges, mono red that just didnt quite get there, reanimator, ramp, same with flameblast.
A fattie you should really consider is Greater Gargadon. It suspends for cheap but its a great sac outlet, can provide a hastey beater out of nowhere and really put the fear of God into your opponent. They now have to play EVERY turn like you had a 9/7 haste dude out and that can really be to your advantage.
I have thought about it, i dunno, it doesnt seem so great, maybe its just a good card, but its not an interesting or fun card?
I like Devil's Play over Banefire since you can use it early AND as a finisher but its up to you, its a preference thing.
I like banefire for being uncounterable, and it seems really marginal to make the change for flashback, i dunno, i like banefire, and again, focusing on cards i dont have over cards that i can make "slight" or "minor" improvements on.
Hybrid:Boros Reckoner and Duergar Hedge-Mage are the next best hybrids after the AMAZING Figure of Destiny and should be given consideration.
This is not an aggro card generally, it is used in reanimator mostly, or as a "finisher" in mono red when you dont have any cards in your hand anyway, t1 guy, t2 two guys, t3 this guy discard 2 cards you dont need (maybe one with flash back or a land you dont need), crank their butts.
Shattering Blow is probably better replaced by the upcoming Wear//Tear.
Yep probly.
Multicolor: I'm not seeing Lightning Helix in that list. That's a pretty big omission IMO.
Yeah, i dont know WTF is up with that, either someone stole it, so i didnt see it in my list and thus didnt type it up, or i missed it, it's definitely in there (or should be, godamn theives)
Goblin Legionnaire isn't that much better than Ember Hauler but it encourages Boros rather than incentives against it. I think Truefire Paladin is a fine card for larger lists like yours.
I think goblin legionaire sucks hard balls, i dont know why it is good, and no one has ever tried to explain it to me ("why is this good?!" "WHAT?! ITS GREAT< YOU ARE A ****ING IDIOT"). I had True fire paladin in, but cut him because no one was playing him, because no one was drafting the deck, maybe he will go back in someday.
These were in there (save for Aurelia) and they never got played, people didnt think they were worth the commitment, even in RW they didnt play the strong hold because it was a colourless land, which probably means there are too many double colour casting costs.
Your multicolor section could use some trimming or maybe you need to make it more clear what archetypes you're trying to support with each color pair. However, I didn't see any weak R/W cards. Obviously you [b]should just add EVERY card I mentioned but rahter the ones you like and think will achieve your desired end game.
I assume you mean shouldnt? I am trying to encourage multi colour, and i like the way the cube has been playing out. I find it difficult to know how much of a particular role playing cards i need, because the cube is so big. For example, how much direct damage do i need in approx 600 cards when we are only drafting on average 264 cards (4x11x6)?
Reanimator had this problem, where either you didnt get enough renimate cards, or not enough loots, and so i added a bunch, but then reanimator was too powerful and was either unbeatable, or was viable for 3 people to play with a 4th playing the same colours but just playing control instead.
There's a lot to comment on here, but one quick thing: Greater Gargadon is a VERY fun card in our drafts. It changes the game dynamic fundamentally, both for having a sacrifice effect in play and for the ticking-time-bomb feeling it gives. In a fast red deck against an about-to-stabilize control deck, deciding whether to blow up your entire board for a single game-winning swing is agonizing. And it feels good to get a bit of value out of everything that you're about to have destroyed.
Oh, and there's lots of odd little combos with stuff like Balance and Land Tax and Wildfire and stuff.
There's a lot to comment on here, but one quick thing: Greater Gargadon is a VERY fun card in our drafts. It changes the game dynamic fundamentally, both for having a sacrifice effect in play and for the ticking-time-bomb feeling it gives. In a fast red deck against an about-to-stabilize control deck, deciding whether to blow up your entire board for a single game-winning swing is agonizing. And it feels good to get a bit of value out of everything that you're about to have destroyed.
Oh, and there's lots of odd little combos with stuff like Balance and Land Tax and Wildfire and stuff.
Thanks for responding Jay and I hope I was at least a little bit helpful.
These are glaring exclusions, i have not been able to find any yet, and are on the top of my list to include.
Good to hear!
It had been doing good, with things like swords and anthems, but it has recently been cut, because he is garbage. You'll notice that a lot of card choices (including this one) are based on whether or not the card is available to me for a reasonable price. The cube is a living thing and is constantly changing, and a lot of the card selection has to do with what i have.
Yeah I can totally understand that. Gotta work with what you have.
I dont want my cube to just be a bunch of decks, i like that every single time we play the decks are different, that being said, i suppose it is true that too many double casting cost creatures hinders "aggro". I have been searching for foils of the above cards for many moons, when i find them, they are in! Hell, as commons, even finding regular versions can be tough. I did have a sky fisher in there but people werent drafting it because of the draw back not being worth the "advantage" of 2 power flying on turn 2. Not sure why but...
I don't think easing up on the mana costs of these cards will severely homogenize your Cube decks. You should see more W/x aggro decks than you did before - 4 better supported aggressive archetypes is more diverse than just Mono (or near Mono) White.
No card needs to be in the cube, but it is a very good card in the W/X control decks, especially the planeswalker/super friends ones.
When I say "need", I was more referring to the fact that the card may be a bit overboard if aggressive archetypes are stuggling in your Cube. I feel the card is a bit narrow and that controlling decks can still be quite strong without it but it crushes aggro decks like few cards do. In a cube where Boros aggro decks are floundering, the spot might be better served for a card that support aggressive archetypes.
I had no idea this card existed until recently, and it has been added in place of Pianna (who is a slightly worse card, but does the same thing).
This was in, but no one was drafting it, but it will be going back in along with HotP for some pump, once i get some aggro cards im missing
Good to hear.
This is a card i always come back to, but in white alone there are many humans, and my players have said that they believe it is also good enough, maybe not though....
I absolutely ****ing hate mass LD, i have just ordered a judge foil geddon though, because i realize going T1, T2, T3 guy into geddon is the way the aggro decks win, the problem is when control decks use it to drag out an unfun game.
I can understand and respect that viewpoint though I'm glad you are least willing to try it. I have to say that in my experience, when an Armageddon effect is cast, games tend to end REAL soon afterwards. Catatrohpe is typcially a good mid-range/control cards because a Wrath is attached to it but regular Armageddon usually shouldn't be placed in the same decks.
I am not a big fan of this card, especially not for all the dollareedoos it costs for some reason. I find in cube you have sooo much more removal than in a regular standard environment, a card like this is going to be a trap a lot of the time. Maybe im wrong? it just seems like its always a blow out, either for the person who played it, or the person holding doomblade
Yeah it's definitely not a priority or anything just something worth trying. Just like in regular Magic, they don't always have it
Why? It's always drafted early when its opened and always kills something, it doesnt seem bad in a 600 card cube, maybe in 320 when you are cutting things like Jack the Ripper.
WAY too many better options. Eidolon232 already typed a list of better inclusions so I'll leave it at that. In Cube, I need more one red mana to do more than what Shock does.
Not sure why its not in the list, jackal pup is in the cube and always has been :/ i'll fix that.
Ah ok.
Why is he good? What am i missing?
Since I noticed you were supporting a Golbin theme it was just a suggestion. I haven't had too much experience with he card myself but I've heard good things about it and its especially good in Boros with all the anthem and battlecry effects the color pair has.
Blood knight fits a theme (i know, not a power reason, but still) and in an aggro deck is a 2/2 fs for 2 not good? I mean yeah, in boros probably not, but mono red never complains about this guy...
A theme? Like you include all the protection knights? The issue isn't that the card is bad just not that its good enough most of the time to justify the RR cost. If we want to bolster multicolor aggro decks like Boros, we have to take a HARD look at cards like these even if they are pretty good.
I have just ordered some marauders, im over the chain walker, i dont know why soooo many people have him in the cube, is he that good? I like the idea of adding torch fiend instead of Ancient Grudge as you suggested.
Maruaders is easy to cast and does a lot of damage for little mana. Try it out and see how your playgroup responds.
This is true, and my players really like them, every time they are cut, i get complaints haha.
Fair enough. If they are seeing significant play that's a fine reason to hold them.
You're probably right, but i dont just want to copy the "best" cube lists, the problem with doing that, even for just 1 or 2 colours, is that it causes imbalance issues with the other colours and decks. I will look into these none the less.
Yeah I certainly don't want to strip the personality from you Cube and make it all homogenous with others out there. On the flip side, most of those cards are staples for a reason and you said your Boros decks were struggling. The absence of these cards will certainly contribute to that issue.
It has, very well.
Interesting. Is it a more aggro card for you guys or a midrange card?
Meh, right now im trying to focus on cards i dont have rather than the whole "strictly better" argument, not that i am not storing away all of this information, but im not going to go out of my way to find a threaten when there are 10 other options i have available to me right now is all.
Fair. I figured you probably had 20+ Threatens lying around from drafts or whatnot but if its actually going to take considerable effort to acquire one than there no need to stress yourself about it.
I dont see what is so bad about it, if we are talking about boros, then yeah, you probably want something that impacts the board more for 4, but i've been killed many times by the fireball man.
4 Mana 2/2 that needs to untap to do anything aren't what I want to be running in my red decks. I'm all for trying unique and "out there" cards in Cubes but I think the power level is just too low here.
They are actually popping up in many decks as finishers, a 5/5 dragon with fireball every turn will quickly end your life. Hell kite charger has seen play in red/x midranges, mono red that just didnt quite get there, reanimator, ramp, same with flameblast.
Yeah I don't think those cards are bad, just that you likely need to redistribute some of the archetype support in this color. Aggressive decks will gain more than ramp/etc. decks will lose if these cards are swapped with something else.
I have thought about it, i dunno, it doesn't seem so great, maybe its just a good card, but its not an interesting or fun card?
Yeah, GG is the bees knees. I'd explain further but others seem to have already done so for me.
I like banefire for being uncounterable, and it seems really marginal to make the change for flashback, i dunno, i like banefire, and again, focusing on cards i dont have over cards that i can make "slight" or "minor" improvements on.
Fair. This is more of a preference thing than a right/wrong thing. My play experiences showed the flashback to be more valuable than the uncounterable/unpreventable clause but maybe you experiences have been different.
This is not an aggro card generally, it is used in reanimator mostly, or as a "finisher" in mono red when you don't have any cards in your hand anyway, t1 guy, t2 two guys, t3 this guy discard 2 cards you dont need (maybe one with flash back or a land you dont need), crank their butts.
Reanimator has better outlets and even Red Decks want cards in had. It's a bit too vulnerable for my tastes. For Reanimator, I prefer cards that also help me dig for pieces (like looters and Compulsive Research effects) or that I can still cast for value if I don't have a target in my hand (Oona's Prowler, Wild Mongrel, Lotleth Troll, Fauna Shaman, etc.) It's also the worst top deck ever. I mean Golbin Piker is also a bad top deck but it still wears equipment on the field and if your opponent is at two they still have to fear it. For Avatar you have to wait two more turns and that's only if you don't draw something better in the meantime.
Yeah, i dont know WTF is up with that, either someone stole it, so i didnt see it in my list and thus didnt type it up, or i missed it, it's definitely in there (or should be, godamn theives)
Hopefully that was just a typo and not a missing/stolen card O_O.
I think goblin legionaire sucks hard balls, i dont know why it is good, and no one has ever tried to explain it to me ("why is this good?!" "WHAT?! ITS GREAT< YOU ARE A ****ING IDIOT"). I had True fire paladin in, but cut him because no one was playing him, because no one was drafting the deck, maybe he will go back in someday.
Goblin Legionnaire isn't an all star (anymore). The reason it is/was playable was just because it was a two drop that could threaten extra damage or removal later on. I don't think its a critical card, its just if you specifically were trying to support Boros Aggro, its casting cost makes it better than Ember Hauler. Feel free to skip it if you desire.
These were in there (save for Aurelia) and they never got played, people didnt think they were worth the commitment, even in RW they didnt play the strong hold because it was a colourless land, which probably means there are too many double colour casting costs.
Yeah, I think Stronghold is worth reconsidering once the mana costs in your early drops have been made easier.
I assume you mean shouldnt? I am trying to encourage multi colour, and i like the way the cube has been playing out. I find it difficult to know how much of a particular role playing cards i need, because the cube is so big. For example, how much direct damage do i need in approx 600 cards when we are only drafting on average 264 cards (4x11x6)?
Reanimator had this problem, where either you didnt get enough renimate cards, or not enough loots, and so i added a bunch, but then reanimator was too powerful and was either unbeatable, or was viable for 3 people to play with a 4th playing the same colours but just playing control instead.
Yeah I meant shouldn't, that was just a typo. I don't have the right/obvious answer to some of those questions but I think eidolon232 has the statistics at hand that might help you. Otherwise go by what you and your group feel is right.
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Sorted by Mana Cost, sorry it's not in alphabetical order :\
About a year ago i hated cube. Absolutely hated it. I didnt get it. I was very intimidated and didnt fully understand. I am fairly new to magic (compared to some) and it was just really not enjoyable. Then, about 8 months ago GP Vancouver happened and i found out about the booze cube. The booze cube ended up being awesome and i decided to give cube another shot. Since then i have been cubing about once a week and trying to create the best cube for me and my players to have a great time.
It isnt just a mish mash of the best cards, it is a little of column A and a little of column B. Let me know what you think
P.s. i tried to post this before, because people asked me to, but i didnt get a whole lot of feedback, people have been asking me for it again, so i decided to post it one more time. Happy cubing
Red
Out:
In:
White
Out:
In:[card]
Kor Skyfisher[/card]
Blue
Out:
In:
Black
Out:
In:
Colourless
Out:[card]
Plague Boiler[/card]
In:
Green
Out: None
In:
Gold & Hybrid
Out:
In:
Basic Information
Cube Size: ~600 Cards
Standard or Theme: Standard
Snow Lands: No
Average Number of Players: 6
How Often Drafted: Generally once a week, sometimes more sometimes less, usually 2 drafts per cube night
Card Selection
Proxies: Yes, the duals and shock lands
Pimped: Trying to foil it, but realizing it might not be worth it
Powered: No. Mostly money, and not wanting to draft power cubes.
Portal: Yes
"Un" Cards: 1 – Booster Tutor
Banned Cards for Power-Level: Umezawa's Jitte
0
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
11
12
Blightsteel Colossus
10
Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
11
1
2
3
4
5
2
3
4
5
6
7
Simic Sky Swallower
8
Nicol Bolas, Planeswalker
X
Nimbus Swimmer
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
X
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
Stormtide Leviathan
X
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
X
Green Sun's Zenith
1
2
3
4
5
6
8
Bogardan Hellkite
X
[CARD]Banefire
Fireball
Earthquake
Bonfire of the Damned[/CARD]
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
Angel of Serenity
X
Entreat the Angels
Dual Colour
Bounce Lands
Man Lands
5 colour
Utility Lands
Fetches
Colourless
Ancient Tomb
Shock Lands
Dual Lands
I have a few questions and comments, hope others chime in.
- You mentioned on Joy of Cubing that you just made a 47 card change. Could you talk about a few of the changes?
- Have you considered Shrine of Loyal Legions? Is there a token deck in the cube?
- Is Goblin tribal good enough to support a deck? Does it simply give Mono-R a unique flavor?
- Love Trusty Machete, glad to see it in.
- Thoughts (if any) on the other Ravnica guildmages? I like Selesnya a lot myself.
- What function does Demigod of Revenge serve as a one-of?
- How are the RTR and GTC guildmages playing? Particularly curious about Vizkopa. Thoughts on adding Sunhome?
- How does the UG deck play out in your cube? Is Shardless Agent good?
- How's Mister Chemister played so far? I want the UR Teleportal deck from RTR to be playable in my cube and I'd like this guy to be in there.
- Has celestial purge been good? Seems a little narrow.
- Hidetsugu's Second Rite? I listened to Shaheen Soorani on your show talk about first-picking this card all day. Have you found it to be as interesting as he did?
Again, thanks for posting your list.
--Jake
Here's my cube! Give it a draft!
Plaque Boiler seems slow ... I'd run Oblivion Stone instead if you still want that effect.
Your Percentage of Gold is still pretty high IMO. Your percentage is close to 13% which is 2 per pack. I have found 1 per pack to be more ideal ... YMMV though.
Also eidolon's comparison suggested additions list is the perfect list to find cards you may have missed or would like to pick up to add later.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
I'm sorry that I cannot give meaningful feedback because I focus on Peasant Cube.
Fan of the podcast.
Thread | Draft
How has the balance between power-level of individual cards weighed against the 'fun factor' or 'uniqueness' of effects, affected what choices you made when including cards? Like, Zameck Guildmage (a decent draft pick, but not common in cubes) alongside cube powerhouse staples (Swords of X and Y). Your cube has a lot of these cards that look really fun to see what happens when they're put together, and less of the typical just 'best cards in magic' that many cubes have (I imagine this is partly due to how you started liking cube, with the booze cube).
Basically, it would be cool to know the decisions that led you to how you developed your list compared to others. Have you played some other cubes and just didn't want the same experience?
I figure whatever the answers are to these questions, it's probably cool to keep them in mind in the future whenever you update your cube, to make sure it's always the cube that *you* want to play.
Loved you on the Joy of Cubing episode. Keep up the 'whole being' awesome thing.
My Cube Blog @theCubeMiser on Twitter
Hi Jake, thanks for the questions, please let me know if you have more, and please find my answers below
- I have considered Shrine of Loyal Legions but did not add it because there wasnt a token deck before, i have been looking at it more closely lately, especially since i have added doubling season. What are your thoughts? Is there a way for me to add a token deck easily?
My main issue with adding things like elves/tokens/other decks is that it generally means that another deck has to be removed or suffer, i dont know how to avoid that, or if i should be trying.
- Goblin tribal: it's a little of column a and column b, there are about 20 (i think?) goblins, most of them are good enough on their own or are at least beneficial and i believe that they are better when drafter around mono red. What are your thoughts?
- Is trusty machete not a normal pick? its been very strong for me and my players, im glad you like it (EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE i have a foil coming!!)
- When you say "other" do you mean original? I had most of them in there, to me they are mostly unexiting and relics of "old" magic, where everything was "thematic" and....i dunno, bad? Most of them seem like over costed ****ty.....****. Thoughts?
- Demigod of Revenge serves as a 5 power dragon with haste, he goes in mono black, br, and mono red, as well as some other fringe reanimator decks, 5 haste is very good, and the red decks generally dont have a problem casting him
- The new guilmages are basically just to fill slots, and to test, im always looking for new good cards, sleepers. Sunhome was in here, it wasnt very good, the format/decks that wanted that card were either too fast or wanted a 2/2 for 2 that was more reliable to cast. Vizopka hasnt seen a whole lot of play, but when it does, it is a houssssssssssssse. What do you think?
- So far the UG deck is very good, but generally i am the only one that drafts it, its a "newer" deck that i have been fixing and i dont think most people trust it. So far i am XX-0 with it, which i think is a good record for match wins. Shardless agent can be very good, other times it can be less good, i find its better in the decks that have low equipment or unblockable dudes. He is not as good as BBE obviously, but he is a fun card, and you can almost guarantee youre going to get him.
- UR isnt a great deck in the cube (yet) so mister chemister isnt super great, but the decks that can use him tell me that he is a bomb, just like in RTR limited. He is just soooo much card advantage, hes like a better tibalt.
- While cards like celestial purge and disenchant are "narrow" they are very necessary evils, i feel. I like having cards that reward players for drafting for their bad matchups. It feels really good when you are drafting white and notice many red and or black problem cards that you arent interested in and you get a purge, it feels really good.
To me there is a difference between cards going undrafted because they are unfun, or bad, or dont fit, and being narrow or sideboard cards.
- Holy ****, **** HIDETSUGUS SECOND RITE. That godamn card. I have died to it twice, it is ****ING RANK. It has killed no less than 4 people since i added it recently. Its the robot large fraud monies tssstststststs.
The gold cards are probably high, but they add complexity and fun to the cube, so far we havent had any complaints and it seems to be working out, although i can see what you are saying, maybe i will try an cut some
Eidolon's comparison is and was great, i have ordered many new cards am excited to try them out!
Hey Ninja Bob, im glad you like it! Thanks for listening!!!
I try to balance my cube in terms of power level, and of course you want to play powerful cards, but fun cards, in my opinion, need to be present too, as long as your group enjoys them, at least a little bit. Cards like Zameck guildmage are arguably very underpower, especially when compared to cards like the swords, but have seen some play and have caused some games to be absolute blowouts. In all honesty, Zameck guildmage is a pet card of mine (i ****ing love UG) but he sadly had to go, in my most recent cut.
You are right, a lot of the cards, especially the "under powered" ones come from my humble beginnings of cube. Also the fact that i think copying the cube would just be boring, i dont want to just play the best 400 cards week in week out, that seems like trash. My favorite thing to do is try NEW cards and new deck ideas, often times i find cards that are "the absolute ****ing worst" actually can and are pretty good with a little help from some other powerful cards.
For example, i notice that behemoth sledge isnt in a lot of cubes, but so far it has been very good for me. Adversely, Jitte is almost unanimously in cubes with a high power level and i took mine out because it was sooooooo ****ing opressive and newer players either didnt know how to play it or didnt know how to play against it. It led to a lot of un fun games, and while it is a good card, i dont want anyone having unfun games when they play with me
I'd love some feedback, let me know what you think, glad you enjoyed it, thanks again.
Thanks everyone for taking the time to give me feedback. Again, im sorry that i didnt reply earlier, i had no idea anyone even replied. Have a great night!
Updates coming soon!
Also, a tip for the future, I'd separate creatures and spells from each other in some manner and organize multi-color/hybrid by color instead of CMC. It just makes it much easier to others to give feedback.
White One Drops:
Elite Vanguard
Loam Lion
Path to Exile
Steppe Lynx
Swords to Plowshares
Mother of Runes
Soltari Foot Soldier
Condemn
Where are Savannah Lions and Isamaru, Hound of Konda? Student of Warfare is white intensive but it can get out of hand pretty quickly and hits HARD. The most important thing one must do when supporting aggressive decks is assuring that you have enough redundancy. Hitting the critial mass is crucial and I don't think your one drop suite cuts it. I'm also skeptical of Soltari Foot Soldier cause it only has one power but maybe it has been doing good work for you? I'd also move Loam Lion to G/W since it needs a forest to be good but I recognize that different people will classify their cards differently and its more of a preference than a"right"/"wrong" thing.
2
Aura Blast
Celestial Purge
Disenchant
Gather the Townsfolk
Kor Firewalker
Leonin Relic-Warder
Loyal Cathar
Pacifism
Humble
Silver Knight
Stoneforge Mystic
Wall of Omens
War Priest of Thune
White Knight
Balance
Sigiled Paladin
Blinding Mage
Soltari Monk
Soltari Trooper
Elite Inquisitor
Knight of the White Orchid
Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
Soltari Priest
Precinct Captain
Cloistered Youth
Spectral Rider
I see a LOT of WW cards in here. Soltari Preist and Monk are staples; the others are good but expendable. When encouraging multicolor decks/aggro, you have to be very careful of double CC cards, especially at the two drop slot. Try cards like Mistral Charger, Stormfront Pegasus, Knight of Glory, Accorder Paladin, Kor Skfisher, etc. They may not all seem crazy but they are less matchup dependent and much easier on the mana.
3
Blade Splicer
Dismantling Blow
Midnight Haunting
Mirran Crusader
Porcelain Legionnaire
Silverblade Paladin
Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Pianna, Nomad Captain
Lingering Souls
Timely Reinforcements
Mirror Entity
Do you need Timely Reinforcements? That cards tends to CRUSH aggro. Solatri Champion is a big omission for aggro decks. Glorious Anthem would also be nice. I'm big fans of Kor Sanctifiers (though it's not really an aggro card) and Flickerwisp (which is great for getting blockers out of the way, is evasive, abuses ETB effects, etc). I'd move Lingering Souls to Orzhov but again that's a preference thing.
4
Ajani Goldmane
Day of Judgment
Emeria Angel
Hero of Bladehold
Odric, master tactician
Restoration Angel
Resurrection
Riders of Gavony
Wrath of God
Elspeth, Knight-Errant
Gideon, Champion of Justice
Calciderm
Do you have enough Humans to make Riders of Gavony work? I haven't counted so maybe you do, I'm just asking. Armageddon and Ravages of Wat are quintesential white aggro cards. I don't know how you feel about them (do you hate mass LD?) but any and all white aggressive decks in Cube are worse off with their absence. Sublime Archangel is also a strong, though not required, card.
5
Baneslayer angel
Cathars' Crusade
Cloudgoat Ranger
Karmic Guide
Geist-Honored Monk
Elspeth Tirel
Gideon Jura
6
Sun Titan
Sunblast Angel
Terminus
Exalted Angel
7
Angel of Serenity
X
Entreat the Angels
The rest of these cards look fine. The higher CMC slots aren't where one looks to imporve Boros decks anyway.
1
Burst Lightning
Flame Slash
Goblin Bushwhacker
Goblin Guide
Kird Ape
Lightning bolt
Magma Spray
Pillar of Flame
Spikeshot Elder
Stromkirk Noble
Grim Lavamancer
Shock
Reckless Waif
Pyroblast
Firebolt
Shock straight up isn't a playable MTGCube card. Magma Spray and Flame Slash are ok cards but I'd rather have Chain Lightning and Forked Bolt since they can hit players AND creatures which is super important in aggro decks. I'd also want to get Jackal Pup in here if I can. Move Kird Ape to Gruul? If you're trying to work in a Goblin subtheme consider Legion Loyalist?
2
Ancient Grudge
Arc Trail
Blood Knight
Ember Hauler
Hellspark Elemental
Incinerate
Kargan Dragonlord
Lightning Mauler
Magma Jet
Mogg Flunkies
Plated Geopede
Pyroclasm
Searing Blaze
Stormblood Berserker
Sudden Shock
Madcap Skills
Ash Zealot
Skinbrand Goblin
Mizzium Mortars
Just as in White, we have more CC cards than we probably need. Blood Knight is a pretty matchup dependent card and isn't needed and Ember Hauler is good but I'm not sure its worth the CC cost (that's an opinion, not a fact though). I'd keep my eyes on Keldon Marauders, Gore-House Chainwalker, Torch Fiend and Fire Slinger. All relative high impact cards with easy mana costs. Ancient Grudge is probably best a Gruul card (or replaced with Torch Fiend which goes better in R/W and can attack+block) and I'm not sure . I think Flunkies and Skinbrand are fine cards but probably worse than some of the other cards I've mentioned. Then again it seems you're supporting a Goblin subtheme which probably makes those harder to cut.
3
Brimstone Volley
Flame Javelin
Ghitu Slinger
Goblin Ruinblaster
Manic Vandal
Staggershock
Traitorous Blood
Volcanic Fallout
Zo-Zu the Punisher
Char
Goblin Chieftain
Hellraiser Goblin
Ball Lightning
Fire Imp
Chandra's Phoenix
I think Keldon Vandals, Arc Lightning, Flames of the Firebrand, Pillage and Sulfuric Vortex are pretty big aggressive omissions from this group. Hellraiser Goblin is more apt to backfire than anything but maybe its tested well for you? Traitorous Blood just seems worse than Threaten, the extra R isn't worth the trample. Ball Lightning is fine but also Mono-Red exclusive, I'm not sure if you're fine with that or not. Since you seem to be supporting a Goblin subtheme, consider Pyrewild Shaman when it comes out in DGM?
4
Avalanche Riders
Beetleback Chief
Chandra, the Firebrand
Flametongue Kavu
Hellrider
Hero of Oxid Ridge
Keldon Champion
Koth of the Hammer
Krenko, mob boss
Sneak Attack
Blistering Firecat
Flame Fusillade
Cinder Elemental
Hidetsugu's Second Rite
Cinder Elemental is pretty much the pits. Cut that for any suggestion I've made earlier. I assume Second Rite is a fun/pet card so I'd say cut it but you're obviously playing it cause you think it super fun.
5
Act of Aggression
Chandra Nalaar
Zealous Conscripts
Siege-Gang Commander
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
Thundermaw Hellkite
6
Fireblast
Flameblast Dragon
Hellkite Charger
Inferno Titan
I assume Hellkite Charger and Flameblast Dragon are for G/R ramp decks? I don't think they are crucial cards at all but it really depends what you're trying to support with their inclusion. I think they are fine cuts but again that's up to you.
8
Bogardan Hellkite
This is a great reanimation ramp target and I think better for those kinds of decks than Charger/Flameblast. A fattie you should really consider is Greater Gargadon. It suspends for cheap but its a great sac outlet, can provide a hastey beater out of nowhere and really put the fear of God into your opponent. They now have to play EVERY turn like you had a 9/7 haste dude out and that can really be to your advantage.
X
Banefire Fireball Earthquake Bonfire of the Damned
I like Devil's Play over Banefire since you can use it early AND as a finisher but its up to you, its a preference thing.
_________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Hybrid: Boros Reckoner and Duergar Hedge-Mage are the next best hybrids after the AMAZING Figure of Destiny and should be given consideration. Avatar of Discord is not a good card (too much risk for the reward) and Shattering Blow is probably better replaced by the upcoming Wear//Tear.
Multicolor: I'm not seeing Lightning Helix in that list. That's a pretty big omission IMO. Goblin Legionnaire isn't that much better than Ember Hauler but it encourages Boros rather than incentives against it. I think Truefire Paladin is a fine card for larger lists like yours. Gisela, Blade of Goldnight and Aurelia, the Warleader are fantastic top-end cards but I don't know if you're looking for cards like those. Slayer's Stronghold is very strong a a good card to put in your land slots. Your multicolor section could use some trimming or maybe you need to make it more clear what archetypes you're trying to support with each color pair. However, I didn't see any weak R/W cards. Obviously you should just add EVERY card I mentioned but rahter the ones you like and think will achieve your desired end game.
These are just my opinions and not gospel. Hopefully I was able to be helpful
These are glaring exclusions, i have not been able to find any yet, and are on the top of my list to include.
It had been doing good, with things like swords and anthems, but it has recently been cut, because he is garbage. You'll notice that a lot of card choices (including this one) are based on whether or not the card is available to me for a reasonable price. The cube is a living thing and is constantly changing, and a lot of the card selection has to do with what i have.
I dont want my cube to just be a bunch of decks, i like that every single time we play the decks are different, that being said, i suppose it is true that too many double casting cost creatures hinders "aggro". I have been searching for foils of the above cards for many moons, when i find them, they are in! Hell, as commons, even finding regular versions can be tough. I did have a sky fisher in there but people werent drafting it because of the draw back not being worth the "advantage" of 2 power flying on turn 2. Not sure why but...
No card needs to be in the cube, but it is a very good card in the W/X control decks, especially the planeswalker/super friends ones.
I had no idea this card existed until recently, and it has been added in place of Pianna (who is a slightly worse card, but does the same thing).
This was in, but no one was drafting it, but it will be going back in along with HotP for some pump, once i get some aggro cards im missing
This is a card i always come back to, but in white alone there are many humans, and my players have said that they believe it is also good enough, maybe not though....
I absolutely ****ing hate mass LD, i have just ordered a judge foil geddon though, because i realize going T1, T2, T3 guy into geddon is the way the aggro decks win, the problem is when control decks use it to drag out an unfun game.
I am not a big fan of this card, especially not for all the dollareedoos it costs for some reason. I find in cube you have sooo much more removal than in a regular standard environment, a card like this is going to be a trap a lot of the time. Maybe im wrong? it just seems like its always a blow out, either for the person who played it, or the person holding doomblade
Why? It's always drafted early when its opened and always kills something, it doesnt seem bad in a 600 card cube, maybe in 320 when you are cutting things like Jack the Ripper.
Not sure why its not in the list, jackal pup is in the cube and always has been :/ i'll fix that.
Why is he good? What am i missing?
Blood knight fits a theme (i know, not a power reason, but still) and in an aggro deck is a 2/2 fs for 2 not good? I mean yeah, in boros probably not, but mono red never complains about this guy...
I have just ordered some marauders, im over the chain walker, i dont know why soooo many people have him in the cube, is he that good? I like the idea of adding torch fiend instead of Ancient Grudge as you suggested.
This is true, and my players really like them, every time they are cut, i get complaints haha.
You're probably right, but i dont just want to copy the "best" cube lists, the problem with doing that, even for just 1 or 2 colours, is that it causes imbalance issues with the other colours and decks. I will look into these none the less.
It has, very well.
Meh, right now im trying to focus on cards i dont have rather than the whole "strictly better" argument, not that i am not storing away all of this information, but im not going to go out of my way to find a threaten when there are 10 other options i have available to me right now is all.
Is that the one that is 3/1 and can re-cur for 3 if you deal dmg? Yeah probably.
I dont see what is so bad about it, if we are talking about boros, then yeah, you probably want something that impacts the board more for 4, but i've been killed many times by the fireball man.
It is super fun!
They are actually popping up in many decks as finishers, a 5/5 dragon with fireball every turn will quickly end your life. Hell kite charger has seen play in red/x midranges, mono red that just didnt quite get there, reanimator, ramp, same with flameblast.
I have thought about it, i dunno, it doesnt seem so great, maybe its just a good card, but its not an interesting or fun card?
I like banefire for being uncounterable, and it seems really marginal to make the change for flashback, i dunno, i like banefire, and again, focusing on cards i dont have over cards that i can make "slight" or "minor" improvements on.
Absolutely.
This is not an aggro card generally, it is used in reanimator mostly, or as a "finisher" in mono red when you dont have any cards in your hand anyway, t1 guy, t2 two guys, t3 this guy discard 2 cards you dont need (maybe one with flash back or a land you dont need), crank their butts.
Yep probly.
Yeah, i dont know WTF is up with that, either someone stole it, so i didnt see it in my list and thus didnt type it up, or i missed it, it's definitely in there (or should be, godamn theives)
I think goblin legionaire sucks hard balls, i dont know why it is good, and no one has ever tried to explain it to me ("why is this good?!" "WHAT?! ITS GREAT< YOU ARE A ****ING IDIOT"). I had True fire paladin in, but cut him because no one was playing him, because no one was drafting the deck, maybe he will go back in someday.
These were in there (save for Aurelia) and they never got played, people didnt think they were worth the commitment, even in RW they didnt play the strong hold because it was a colourless land, which probably means there are too many double colour casting costs.
I assume you mean shouldnt? I am trying to encourage multi colour, and i like the way the cube has been playing out. I find it difficult to know how much of a particular role playing cards i need, because the cube is so big. For example, how much direct damage do i need in approx 600 cards when we are only drafting on average 264 cards (4x11x6)?
Reanimator had this problem, where either you didnt get enough renimate cards, or not enough loots, and so i added a bunch, but then reanimator was too powerful and was either unbeatable, or was viable for 3 people to play with a 4th playing the same colours but just playing control instead.
Oh, and there's lots of odd little combos with stuff like Balance and Land Tax and Wildfire and stuff.
In short, try it!
My $40 MTGO cube
Draft my cube at Cubetutor!
HM.
Good idea, this has convinced me
Good to hear!
Yeah I can totally understand that. Gotta work with what you have.
I don't think easing up on the mana costs of these cards will severely homogenize your Cube decks. You should see more W/x aggro decks than you did before - 4 better supported aggressive archetypes is more diverse than just Mono (or near Mono) White.
When I say "need", I was more referring to the fact that the card may be a bit overboard if aggressive archetypes are stuggling in your Cube. I feel the card is a bit narrow and that controlling decks can still be quite strong without it but it crushes aggro decks like few cards do. In a cube where Boros aggro decks are floundering, the spot might be better served for a card that support aggressive archetypes.
Good to hear.
I can understand and respect that viewpoint though I'm glad you are least willing to try it. I have to say that in my experience, when an Armageddon effect is cast, games tend to end REAL soon afterwards. Catatrohpe is typcially a good mid-range/control cards because a Wrath is attached to it but regular Armageddon usually shouldn't be placed in the same decks.
Yeah it's definitely not a priority or anything just something worth trying. Just like in regular Magic, they don't always have it
WAY too many better options. Eidolon232 already typed a list of better inclusions so I'll leave it at that. In Cube, I need more one red mana to do more than what Shock does.
Ah ok.
Since I noticed you were supporting a Golbin theme it was just a suggestion. I haven't had too much experience with he card myself but I've heard good things about it and its especially good in Boros with all the anthem and battlecry effects the color pair has.
A theme? Like you include all the protection knights? The issue isn't that the card is bad just not that its good enough most of the time to justify the RR cost. If we want to bolster multicolor aggro decks like Boros, we have to take a HARD look at cards like these even if they are pretty good.
Maruaders is easy to cast and does a lot of damage for little mana. Try it out and see how your playgroup responds.
Fair enough. If they are seeing significant play that's a fine reason to hold them.
Yeah I certainly don't want to strip the personality from you Cube and make it all homogenous with others out there. On the flip side, most of those cards are staples for a reason and you said your Boros decks were struggling. The absence of these cards will certainly contribute to that issue.
Interesting. Is it a more aggro card for you guys or a midrange card?
Fair. I figured you probably had 20+ Threatens lying around from drafts or whatnot but if its actually going to take considerable effort to acquire one than there no need to stress yourself about it.
4 Mana 2/2 that needs to untap to do anything aren't what I want to be running in my red decks. I'm all for trying unique and "out there" cards in Cubes but I think the power level is just too low here.
Yeah I don't think those cards are bad, just that you likely need to redistribute some of the archetype support in this color. Aggressive decks will gain more than ramp/etc. decks will lose if these cards are swapped with something else.
Yeah, GG is the bees knees. I'd explain further but others seem to have already done so for me.
Fair. This is more of a preference thing than a right/wrong thing. My play experiences showed the flashback to be more valuable than the uncounterable/unpreventable clause but maybe you experiences have been different.
Reanimator has better outlets and even Red Decks want cards in had. It's a bit too vulnerable for my tastes. For Reanimator, I prefer cards that also help me dig for pieces (like looters and Compulsive Research effects) or that I can still cast for value if I don't have a target in my hand (Oona's Prowler, Wild Mongrel, Lotleth Troll, Fauna Shaman, etc.) It's also the worst top deck ever. I mean Golbin Piker is also a bad top deck but it still wears equipment on the field and if your opponent is at two they still have to fear it. For Avatar you have to wait two more turns and that's only if you don't draw something better in the meantime.
Hopefully that was just a typo and not a missing/stolen card O_O.
Goblin Legionnaire isn't an all star (anymore). The reason it is/was playable was just because it was a two drop that could threaten extra damage or removal later on. I don't think its a critical card, its just if you specifically were trying to support Boros Aggro, its casting cost makes it better than Ember Hauler. Feel free to skip it if you desire.
Yeah, I think Stronghold is worth reconsidering once the mana costs in your early drops have been made easier.
Yeah I meant shouldn't, that was just a typo. I don't have the right/obvious answer to some of those questions but I think eidolon232 has the statistics at hand that might help you. Otherwise go by what you and your group feel is right.