If you came looking for a deck in one of these four archetypes, look elsewhere. This deck aims to introduce a new approach to Modern competitive strategy: Survival.
Foreword
Let me first begin by saying that this deck, upon first glance, will look like a complete wad of garbage if you fail to notice the many interactions the deck has.
I plead you, before posting, study the interactions as I explain them before replying (or at least play against, or use this deck a few times to see it in action): I've likely covered the issues you thought of already. I will only reply to serious questions about this deck with serious concern for this deck's progression.
I want to give out special thanks to pyro314, ForestHex, Badd Business, and the Modern-playing community that resides here. If it wasn't for them, I would have stopped playing this game altogether after getting roflstomped at my first tournament here. Now I have a build that I think is stronger than ever, and ready to handle most things that get thrown at me from the top tiers of the format.
Without further ado, I will now proceed into the presentation of the deck's strategy, interactions, win conditions, variants, and matchup details, followed by my version of the deck itself (I may change this to a primer in the future as more ideas circulate.).
The General Strategy
The deck, in my belief, should classify as Survival for the following reasons:
The deck does not try to win instantly nor through massive amounts of early damage (with one rare exception), thus making it non-Aggro.
The deck does not always try to catch the opponent into an inescapable cycle of countermagic and simultaneous attacking (except for the case of blitz-with kami/martyr support), thus making it non-tempo.
The deck does not rely on a specific one or two cards, nor does it try to "combo-off" by casting spells in quick succession, thus making it non-combo.
The deck doesn't try to pin the enemy down into an immobilized state (though some could argue the preventative measures present in this deck may be considered immobilizing), thus making it non-control.
Instead, the deck aims to win by first allowing the enemy to try to throw the whole book at you, while you use defensive measures and a cleverly-built ramping method to not only evade the attack, but also prepare a swift counterattack.
Interactions
Here's something that will surprise most opponents right off the bat -- This deck likes to go second! At first your opponents will gawk at you and wonder why the heck you're making a death wish in a 4-turn-endgame format. What they don't know is that your card advantage and your ramping will have you running circles around them -- all of which reliant on moving last.
What such ramping exists that you would want to go second? Weathered Wayfarer is obvious, but that alone isn't worth moving second. There's also Knight of the White Orchid, which, used here, is a Sakura on steroids -- a 2/2 first striker who can chump block a GoST or Goblin Guide (among a lot of other stuff), and fetch you a land as well. If you end up ahead of your opponent on lands, there's a few tricks you can pull to nudge them ahead -- Path to Exile used early, Ghost Quarter a potentially threatening land, or laying in wait with an uncracked fetch (stack it, then respond with Wayfarer).
Once you've developed a point where you feel comfortable on lands, shift gears to using creatures to tap for Sky Hussar. If you still have some untapped people, attack and chip away a few life points where applicable. There have been cases where the deck simply wins through attacking because the opponent is trying to deal with your other measures.
If you see it forming, one way to end the game quickly is through the pairing of Vizkopa Guildmage and Martyr of Sands. Be careful when stacking: First, sacrifice the martyr, then respond with Vizkopa's ability. Using Vizkopa first may result in the enemy responding to it by targeting the martyr with a hate spell. You might get away with saccing the martyr for lifegain, but you lose the wincon because Vizkopa's ability's still on the stack. So, Martyr first, then use Vizkopa.
Another nifty pairing in the deck is Realmwright set to Mountain, with the tutorable Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. The main reason RW is used and not Prismatic Omen is twofold: Omen would require a green splash, and it cant be tapped for Sky Hussar like Realmwright can. Furthermore, Realmwright can be brought back through both Sun Titan and Emeria, whereas Prismatic Omen must rely on Sun Titan for recursion.
A side note -- you shouldn't cast Realmwright unless you have Valakut and four other lands in play, and you are ready to play land #6. The only other reason to cast it is out of necessity for Sky Hussar draws.
The deck's got some black for vizkopa, but why let a splash into such an amazing recursion color go to waste? To help carry you through the midgame, there's Grim Discovery, a fantastic one-for-two tradeoff that allows you to dig up a creature and a land from the grave. We take full advantage of this card here: the deck has 6 fetchlands, and it also has creatures that are sacrifice-able for a compelling purpose.
Win Conditions
The late game closing aims to win in a few ways: poking creatures and players to death with Valakut, by having multiple fetches enter play in a given turn; or by Nuking problem permanents with Admonition Angel and swinging 6 at a time; or by recurring Martyr and linking it with Vizkopa,
or by having Vizkopa give a 6/6-er lifelink, followed up with another lifegain=lifeloss ability for 12 damage/turn; or simply combat cleaving -- going unblockable with the help of Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.
There are so many possibilities that it will be difficult to fend off all of them.
Variants
Every good deck should have a tweakable side to it to make it unpredictable. This one is no exception. As alternatives, you may wish to try cards such as:
Supreme Verdict -- You might prefer this over *** for some reason.
Lingering Souls -- Need some dudes for Sky Hussar? Need to chump block? This answers both your needs.
Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker -- Pair this with Sky Hussar for a Killer ending. You'll need to discard this through overflow or splash red to use it.
Knight of the Reliquary -- Warrants a green splash -solely- for the use of this one card. Fantastic cost reducer and landfall troublemaker which works fantastically in 4 ways: T4/5 Sun Titan/Angel, extra landfall triggers for Valakut/Angel, land tutorer and beatstick by himself.
Court Hussar/Mulldrifter -- Both serve the same purpose of re-triggerable card draws, but each has its positive and negative interactions with the deck. Mulldrifter can't recur through Sun Titan, and Court Hussar must be hardcast initially then die by means of combat/wrath (Furthermore, the creature can never stick to the battlefield again becuase of it's auto-sacrifice trigger).
Reveillark -- capable of recurring any two creatures except for the two 6/6ers. Everyone else, even KotR, has p<=2.
Sejiri Steppe -- can jump in to protect KotR, or recur to make it unblockable.
Matchups
These aren't exactly statistic based, as I haven't bothered to keep track. I will modify this as it sees more play and people share their views. For now this list of common matchups is based on what I have seen while steering this machine.
RDW -- Way too flimsy. Once you make it to your *** or your lifegain, you're set. Just beware of Skullcrack and friends.
UWx Tempo -- Looks scary early, but their tricks fade quickly. Lifegain and recursion is what wins against tempo.
Jund -- A formidable opponent, but a well-guarded leyline assures g2-3 are yours. Most run Abrupt Decay now, instead of Maelstrom Pulse, leaving leylines out of the Decay's range.
Eggs -- Kinda funny how they lock up when they see Stony Silence. Maindeck though, you hope to win through an early Martyr/Vizkopa trick, possibly riding a sunrise. Path your own creatures if it means ramping to the big guns. They won't have any creatures.
UR Twin/Kiki -- This one's a tossup. You have preventative measures, but they can bounce things on your turn. Tails will swing the tide in your favor.
Scapeshifters -- If you can pull off a few martyr cracks early, you're safe. Otherwise go all out and prioritize damage dealing before your other functions. Leyline is nice in the board. Ride his ramp with your wayfarers and Kotwos -- even go first.
Against Living End, sacrifice your creatures and convert Living end into something you can ride. If you're worried about Bojuka Bog, you can wait until you see Living end, then respond with sacrifices. Can't land drop in response to that. Also Leyline of Sanctity = they must nuke their own grave when playing the Bog.
Affinity and Tron hate the Stony Silence, G1 might be a little rough, but you can block Karn with Tails, and you can simply beat tron to death. Don't forget to tutor your Ghost Quarters.
Affinity drops to the sight of ***. As long as you can gain life or prevent one combat hit, you will make it to the *** turn.
Melira/Kiki Pod -- You'll want to see Page 2. There's much to discuss regarding this matchup. If you know what you're doing, you can cripple them.
Conclusion
The best part about this deck is that it has so many amazing synergies and cooperations to make the entire team work, and yet pulling one cog out of the system won't derail it. I hope you enjoy this deck as much as i do, and I look forward to your playtesting results and your thoughtful opinions. Cheers!
Below is version 2.1, which features a green splash to include KotR, and a reduction of Sky Hussar in favor of Court Hussar. See if you can spot the more subtle changes.
Well written primer. I lost quite a few games playing against this today. It definitely looks like a pile of junk, but I would definitely say it seemed better than it initially looks.
I will say, I'm not sold on Sky Hussar. I can see tons of games where it's just stuck in hand doing nothing against opponents with removal-heavy decks, and a 4/3 flier for 5 mana isn't particularly great either. I just think there are a lot of other cards that could potentially be superior card advantage engines that don't require such hard-to meet conditions as sky hussar does. That being said, I haven't played with this, so It's hard to entirely evaluate.
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I can understand your position there. If you want even more Oomph from the Sky Hussar, you may even want to try it in combo with Kiki-Jiki. It takes some setup time, but that's something this deck always seems to have.
Another thing I should mention -- Most opponents (usually those unfamiliar with this) tend to be reluctant about using a hate spell on a sacrifice-able creature, especially in regards to Martyr when there's mana up -- people tend to leave it alone because they feel their removal will have been useless.
Players also tend to avoid using Path to Exile against my Wayfarer -- they feel it defeats the purpose.
Why would you run Wrath over the much need for sure thing like Supreme Verdict?
I understand the lack of wanting to run more Hallowed Fountains, but Supreme Verdict just seems to be the better card here?
Can you tell me what kinds of decks you beat with this thing? Fair decks are fine enough, but what about agressive combo decks and rogue decks like Living End?
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
There's nothing wrong with using Supreme Verdict at all. I prefer *** simply because of its anti-regeneration clause, and I can cast it if I, for some reason, am missing a Fountain. Bear in Mind I have a Grand Abolisher in the board if we're worried about countermagic.
However, only two major threats have countermagic, Tempo, and control, only the former of which would you cast a nuke-all spell such as *** or Verdict.
Living End is a hilarious matchup. All you need to do is deliberately plant your creatures in the grave while they cycle -- sac your martyrs, sac your kamis, etc. Living End is simply more recursion for you to ride while you wait for emeria.
Living End is a hilarious matchup. All you need to do is deliberately plant your creatures in the grave while they cycle -- sac your martyrs, sac your kamis, etc. Living End is simply more recursion for you to ride while you wait for emeria.
Until they drop a Bojuka Bo(n)g on you.
So does this beat Storm, Pyromancer's Ascension, Tron, Kiki-Twin, Affinity etc...?
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
If you're worried about Bojuka Bog, you can wait until you see Living end, then respond with sacrifices. Can't land drop in response to that. Also Leyline of Sanctity = they must nuke their own grave when playing the Bog.
I can tell you haven't read this all the way through. You know why? You're asking me about my Kiki-matchup when it's already mentioned in the OP.
Affinity and Tron hate the Stony Silence, G1 might be a little rough, but you can block Karn with Tails, and you can simply beat tron to death. Don't forget to tutor your Ghost Quarters.
Affinity drops to the sight of ***. As long as you can gain life or prevent one combat hit, you will make it to the *** turn.
Storm's not really a viable deck anymore since Seething Song got the nerfbat.
Pyro Ascension doesn't do enough damage to outpace the lifegain.
I am trying to keep an open mind here. Maybe I am not fully grasping all the interactions.
Do you have an MWS/MODO/Cockatrice video of how this all plays out and in what order?
I think I really need to see how versatile it is. Do you play this like control, hatebears, aggro.
Frankly, it's late and my faculties aren't around me. This seems like it has really loose lines of play (depending on the matchup) as opposed to some of the durdly decks I am used to playing/seeing.
*Edit* Another card(s) you will have to contend with regarding Living End is Beast Within and Fulminator Mage abd Faerie Macabre. On a second look it appears like a bad matchup as most creature based decks fold to it.
I'm also trying to be patient with you, but you keep seeming to miss key points already mentioned in the OP. You're taking one glance at this without reading the details, and attempting to assure to me that simply because this deck has a truckload of creatures, it must thereby immediately die to Living End. You've also just asked me if this was Control/Aggro, when this is answered in the bold header.
Read the General Strategy paragraphs one more time. This is not Control nor Aggro. The idea is to -allow- most common strategies of your opponents to be played outright, and render it harmless through a cheap defense -- followed by a swift counterattack.
Beast Within destroys a permanent at instant level. If casted before Living end, the destroyed creature simply returns. If casted after, you can cash the creature out with a sacrifice in response. Either way, Beast Within is wasted.
Fulminator Mage isn't a threat either. I can afford to be Nuked, because that simply means more searches for Wayfarer or KOTWO. Grim Discovery and Sun Titan also recur land.
Faerie Macabre is a very narrow case and it tends to be sideboarded in when talking about a Living End deck. If somehow this guy is a threat to you -- Pithing Needle exists in the sideboard for problems like this.
How about Restore Balance, that deck seems pretty hard to beat, they kill your lands, but you can't really get them back since they one, kill you Wayfarer, and keep you at so few lands that you can't use grim discovery. How would you suggest vs that match up?
This deck doesn't really run counters, but chalice might be a really good idea board card, since it also stops infect, which I assume would be a harder match up for this deck.
@Forest Hex: Restore Balance is a tough scenario. They tend to run very few lands and rely on artifacts for mana -- Thats where Stony Silence comes in. You can also Pithing Needle the Greater Gargadon to slow down its entry rate.
If the board is already destroyed, we're looking to topdeck wayfarers and Kotwos. It's not impossible to recover and win against balance, it just takes a while. I would recommend keeping one land safe in your hand against a deck like that.
Chalice of the Void is actually a sideboard option I have run on-and-off from time to time. I tend to avoid it because it argues with my 1 drops when I need to set it to 1 (which is usually what becomes necessary). It's not a bad idea, though.
Now on to Hagalaz: I'm pretty much going to bypass your comments since you came to be a jerk and ignore the OP warnings before jumping at my throat, but I'll take the pleasure of smiting your argument just this once.
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I see you've never heard of midrange... You should. This is a midrange deck.
I see you're quite ignorant as well. Midrange is called Midrange for a reason. You know why? It's not for the inevitability factor! Jund midrange isn't trying to win late -- that's for sure. Allow me to help you.
Midrange refers to a deck that is in the middle of the range between the Control-Aggro continuum. It's not trying to win as fast as Aggro nor as late as Control (or this deck for that matter). The idea of midrange is to create windows of opportunity in the 4th-8th(ish) turns in which aggro has lost its flair and Control hasn't had a chance to fully set up a wincon.
There's a distinct difference in this deck -- In many cases, even control is let to do their bidding while their board nukes and countermagic are rendered useless by uncounterable recursion.
That places this deck outside the Control-Aggro continuum, Which makes me kind of... not midrange.
Good try though!
The list seems too split and lacks focus. I think you should either opt for a more controllish approach or a BW sisters (in which the martyr + vizkopa combo does very well) approach and focus on your decision.
This is primarily why I want to ignore you. The Foreword clearly states you will not understand this deck at all if you just glance at it. Either study the functons, or play with/against this before making a comment if you want anything serious from me.
Ok, so I read the entire primer, the comments, and examined the decklist. My questions are concerned with the matchup against Pod, specifically Melira Pod, a deck I love to pilot.
First thing I noticed was the sideboard. 3 Needles, 2 Orbs, 2 stony silence. That's a rough day for Pod no matter how much removal you have. Needle shuts down the combo, orb shuts down the value and the combo, silence shuts down the tutor (minus chord of calling, of course). However, I feel like Melira is moving in a new direction; decks are running Cartel Aristocrat as another sac outlet, and I believe the new Varolz will also find a home there. Suddenly, Needle seems less useful. I now have 2 other options to Chord for when Needle hits the field. That leaves 4 pieces of hate left to deal with, which I feel is reasonable to overcome without too much trouble.
Onto the mainboard...
As you've described, this deck's purpose is to take a beating, and win. It's a deck with high staying power that can fight through a myriad of hate. I like the Titans for recursion and Wayfarer for the ramp and the Martyrs for life. Emeria's also solid once you have 7 plains, but once you pass your opponent in land count the ramp shuts down, and Emeria takes awhile to get online, especially if you miss land drops.
Now, on a good day, Melira goes off turn 3 if you fail to find removal. More often than not though, it wins through beats and acts like a midrange deck, except with an abnormal amount of staying power. Persist, Reveillark, Eternal Witness, Deathrite Shaman, Gavony Township; all of these fight through hate and life loss like a boss.
Looking at an average Melira Pod decklist, what is your opinion on the matchup? I feel like it is heavily in Pod's favor, even post-board, but I don't have the experience of playing your deck.
Having seen this deck in action a few times, I think pod would be favored behind a good pilot. This deck doesn't really have an answer to an active birthing pod itself in the first game, and once the pod gets going, the pilot will be able to find enough answers to the cards that shut down most popular strategies. Game 2 and 3 are probably going to be more even, but most pod players bring in artifact / enchantment hate during those games anyway. That being said, it's hard to say without seeing a sample of quite a few matches between the two decks.
As for the midrange / control / survival argument, this is NOT midrange. This is a deck that wants to win via the inevitability of Emeria. Honestly, I would say this is control, albeit a bit of a strange control variant, but still control nonetheless. I think the strongest points of this deck are the use of weathered wayfarer, grim discovery, and Sun Titan as card advantage engines. I'm not sold on Sky Hussar & Viskopa guildmage even if they can occasionally be awesome.
I think the Kami of False Hope and Realmwright engines are also powerful in here. Personally, I feel like Ranger of Eos deserves a slot in here, at least as a singleton since it can fetch Kami, Realmwright, or Martyr. Another thing - I would personally want to upgrade Knight of the White Orchid to 4x. Its a great card, and especially if you plan on going on turn 2 all the time, there seems no good reason not to play 4 in here.
One thing I didn't mention when testing against this with SDM is that I think it needs some artifact and or enchantment hate in the sideboard. I felt like in the games I tested, I would be able to shut down most of his inevitability engines by resolving a Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus, or other common graveyard hate cards.
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One of the things I tested heavily against was Pod, thanks to the help of pyro314. He showed me where my strengths and weaknesses with that deck exactly laid.
You are exactly right about the midrange beating scenario: this is usually what it comes down to when facing pod. At this point the deck becomes reliant on using the kamis, martyrs, paths, and wraths to get by, if they haven't been used already. The tipping point is where I get to make Vizkopa bombs or let Admonition Angel loose.
As for the alternate sacrifice methods, a well-placed Path can get rid of whoever's not covered by the silences and needles; although I usually end up responding to a first sacrifice by aiming at the problem permanent: Melira. As long as I focus removal on it and not the pieces that revolve around it, I'm generally OK. Another thing about the needles is that I tend to cast them late as opposed to predicting what's out there.
Missed your post Badd -- There is Stony Silence and Aura of Silence already, but nothing to hate on an enchantment directly unless I pray to topdeck the Aura or wait for A-angel, or Necrotic Sliver. What else could I use?
I understand that Brewers have certain pride in thier craft but OP and others here need to take a chill pill. The attitude given goes above and beyond what is required. I appreciate Brewers.
I read the original post, three times.
Without any sort of validation that this deck is even remotely competitive against even rogue decks, this whole thread is a waste of time.
Maybe if you managed to complete a more comprehensive primer I would spend more time looking at this.
I am going to flag this thread for mods to deal with.
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My Modern decks: B/R/G Living End G/R/B G/R Tron R/G U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
So now that you've taken failed potshots at me it needs to be flagged? That sounds like rage to me. Try making a valid point when bashing.
It's not rage. It's frustration at the attitude pervading this thread. And it's one that I share.
You've put together an incredibly intriguing deck, and you've correctly identified that the deck isn't easy to evaluate. On the surface, it looks like you've collected a pile of do-nothings and just hope to draw the right half of your deck and get there somehow. You've clearly spent a lot of time on your primer, and you've managed to get a lot of people curious about what you're doing. You should consider that a success, but that's only the first step.
The trouble is that new brews pop up all the time. To experienced players they all look terrible and yet the brewers all claim they're awesome. Why should anyone coming into this thread think anything differently just because you've created an extensive primer? It takes time - lots of time - to put together a deck, jam it against the gauntlet, and figure out if it's good. Especially when you've already admitted that the correct lines of play are not obvious. It's natural for experienced players to want more information about holes that they observe before taking that time to test this particular brew over others.
This deck honestly reminds me of a Sam Black brew - in that it looks terrible when you read the decklist. Yet we all know that Sam Black brews win tournaments. Why? Because he's Sam Black! You're not Sam Black (at least, I'm pretty sure you're not). You're SpinDashMaster - if you don't carry a reputation as a successful brewer, you need to be willing to answer any and all criticisms even if you feel they were covered by your primer. Maybe the reader doesn't think certain matchups were covered extensively enough (and honestly they aren't - one sentence is not enough - good primers have entire paragraphs). Maybe the value of a particular interaction is obvious to you, but isn't to a newcomer.
For this to be a success, you need to be inviting - not condescending. It's clear that you've put a lot of work into all of this - it would be a shame for it to get ignored because you drive people away from the thread with your attitude. There have been a lot of valid criticisms in here that you have failed to answer because you believe your primer covered them - when in fact, your primer fails to cover most matchups with even half the rigor it should. I would suggest that you start by updating your primer to sort the matchups into categories (good, decent, coinflip, bad, unwinnable), then dedicate a paragraph to the key interactions of each matchup so that potential testers have some guidelines to follow.
I wish you luck - you've made something interesting here, and I hope it goes somewhere.
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It's not your job to win games of Magic where you're mana screwed.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.
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If you came looking for a deck in one of these four archetypes, look elsewhere. This deck aims to introduce a new approach to Modern competitive strategy: Survival.
Foreword
Let me first begin by saying that this deck, upon first glance, will look like a complete wad of garbage if you fail to notice the many interactions the deck has.
I plead you, before posting, study the interactions as I explain them before replying (or at least play against, or use this deck a few times to see it in action): I've likely covered the issues you thought of already. I will only reply to serious questions about this deck with serious concern for this deck's progression.
I want to give out special thanks to pyro314, ForestHex, Badd Business, and the Modern-playing community that resides here. If it wasn't for them, I would have stopped playing this game altogether after getting roflstomped at my first tournament here. Now I have a build that I think is stronger than ever, and ready to handle most things that get thrown at me from the top tiers of the format.
Without further ado, I will now proceed into the presentation of the deck's strategy, interactions, win conditions, variants, and matchup details, followed by my version of the deck itself (I may change this to a primer in the future as more ideas circulate.).
Instead, the deck aims to win by first allowing the enemy to try to throw the whole book at you, while you use defensive measures and a cleverly-built ramping method to not only evade the attack, but also prepare a swift counterattack.
Here's something that will surprise most opponents right off the bat -- This deck likes to go second! At first your opponents will gawk at you and wonder why the heck you're making a death wish in a 4-turn-endgame format. What they don't know is that your card advantage and your ramping will have you running circles around them -- all of which reliant on moving last.
What such ramping exists that you would want to go second? Weathered Wayfarer is obvious, but that alone isn't worth moving second. There's also Knight of the White Orchid, which, used here, is a Sakura on steroids -- a 2/2 first striker who can chump block a GoST or Goblin Guide (among a lot of other stuff), and fetch you a land as well. If you end up ahead of your opponent on lands, there's a few tricks you can pull to nudge them ahead -- Path to Exile used early, Ghost Quarter a potentially threatening land, or laying in wait with an uncracked fetch (stack it, then respond with Wayfarer).
Once you've developed a point where you feel comfortable on lands, shift gears to using creatures to tap for Sky Hussar. If you still have some untapped people, attack and chip away a few life points where applicable. There have been cases where the deck simply wins through attacking because the opponent is trying to deal with your other measures.
If you see it forming, one way to end the game quickly is through the pairing of Vizkopa Guildmage and Martyr of Sands. Be careful when stacking: First, sacrifice the martyr, then respond with Vizkopa's ability. Using Vizkopa first may result in the enemy responding to it by targeting the martyr with a hate spell. You might get away with saccing the martyr for lifegain, but you lose the wincon because Vizkopa's ability's still on the stack. So, Martyr first, then use Vizkopa.
Another nifty pairing in the deck is Realmwright set to Mountain, with the tutorable Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle. The main reason RW is used and not Prismatic Omen is twofold: Omen would require a green splash, and it cant be tapped for Sky Hussar like Realmwright can. Furthermore, Realmwright can be brought back through both Sun Titan and Emeria, whereas Prismatic Omen must rely on Sun Titan for recursion.
A side note -- you shouldn't cast Realmwright unless you have Valakut and four other lands in play, and you are ready to play land #6. The only other reason to cast it is out of necessity for Sky Hussar draws.
The deck's got some black for vizkopa, but why let a splash into such an amazing recursion color go to waste? To help carry you through the midgame, there's Grim Discovery, a fantastic one-for-two tradeoff that allows you to dig up a creature and a land from the grave. We take full advantage of this card here: the deck has 6 fetchlands, and it also has creatures that are sacrifice-able for a compelling purpose.
The late game closing aims to win in a few ways: poking creatures and players to death with Valakut, by having multiple fetches enter play in a given turn; or by Nuking problem permanents with Admonition Angel and swinging 6 at a time; or by recurring Martyr and linking it with Vizkopa,
or by having Vizkopa give a 6/6-er lifelink, followed up with another lifegain=lifeloss ability for 12 damage/turn; or simply combat cleaving -- going unblockable with the help of Eight-and-a-Half-Tails.
There are so many possibilities that it will be difficult to fend off all of them.
Every good deck should have a tweakable side to it to make it unpredictable. This one is no exception. As alternatives, you may wish to try cards such as:
These aren't exactly statistic based, as I haven't bothered to keep track. I will modify this as it sees more play and people share their views. For now this list of common matchups is based on what I have seen while steering this machine.
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Martyr of Sands
2 Kami of False Hope
2 Realmwright
3 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
2 Vizkopa Guildmage
1 Necrotic Sliver
4 Sky Hussar
2 Sun Titan
2 Admonition Angel
3 Path to Exile
3 Grim Discovery
3 Wrath of God
Lands (23)
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Marsh Flats
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
10 Plains
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
3 Pithing Needle
1 Aura of Silence
4 Grand Abolisher
2 Torpor Orb
Below is version 2.1, which features a green splash to include KotR, and a reduction of Sky Hussar in favor of Court Hussar. See if you can spot the more subtle changes.
4 Weathered Wayfarer
4 Martyr of Sands
2 Kami of False Hope
2 Realmwright
2 Knight of the White Orchid
2 Vizkopa Guildmage
2 Eight-and-a-Half-Tails
2 Knight of the Reliquary
2 Court Hussar
3 Sky Hussar
2 Sun Titan
2 Admonition Angel
3 Path to Exile
3 Grim Discovery
3 Wrath of God
Lands (22)
2 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
1 Bojuka Bog
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
2 Godless Shrine
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Temple Garden
6 Plains
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Stony Silence
3 Pithing Needle
2 Aura of Silence
3 Grand Abolisher
2 Torpor Orb
I will say, I'm not sold on Sky Hussar. I can see tons of games where it's just stuck in hand doing nothing against opponents with removal-heavy decks, and a 4/3 flier for 5 mana isn't particularly great either. I just think there are a lot of other cards that could potentially be superior card advantage engines that don't require such hard-to meet conditions as sky hussar does. That being said, I haven't played with this, so It's hard to entirely evaluate.
Another thing I should mention -- Most opponents (usually those unfamiliar with this) tend to be reluctant about using a hate spell on a sacrifice-able creature, especially in regards to Martyr when there's mana up -- people tend to leave it alone because they feel their removal will have been useless.
Players also tend to avoid using Path to Exile against my Wayfarer -- they feel it defeats the purpose.
Why would you run Wrath over the much need for sure thing like Supreme Verdict?
I understand the lack of wanting to run more Hallowed Fountains, but Supreme Verdict just seems to be the better card here?
Can you tell me what kinds of decks you beat with this thing? Fair decks are fine enough, but what about agressive combo decks and rogue decks like Living End?
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
However, only two major threats have countermagic, Tempo, and control, only the former of which would you cast a nuke-all spell such as *** or Verdict.
Living End is a hilarious matchup. All you need to do is deliberately plant your creatures in the grave while they cycle -- sac your martyrs, sac your kamis, etc. Living End is simply more recursion for you to ride while you wait for emeria.
Until they drop a Bojuka Bo(n)g on you.
So does this beat Storm, Pyromancer's Ascension, Tron, Kiki-Twin, Affinity etc...?
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
I can tell you haven't read this all the way through. You know why? You're asking me about my Kiki-matchup when it's already mentioned in the OP.
Affinity and Tron hate the Stony Silence, G1 might be a little rough, but you can block Karn with Tails, and you can simply beat tron to death. Don't forget to tutor your Ghost Quarters.
Affinity drops to the sight of ***. As long as you can gain life or prevent one combat hit, you will make it to the *** turn.
Storm's not really a viable deck anymore since Seething Song got the nerfbat.
Pyro Ascension doesn't do enough damage to outpace the lifegain.
Do you have an MWS/MODO/Cockatrice video of how this all plays out and in what order?
I think I really need to see how versatile it is. Do you play this like control, hatebears, aggro.
Frankly, it's late and my faculties aren't around me. This seems like it has really loose lines of play (depending on the matchup) as opposed to some of the durdly decks I am used to playing/seeing.
*Edit* Another card(s) you will have to contend with regarding Living End is Beast Within and Fulminator Mage abd Faerie Macabre. On a second look it appears like a bad matchup as most creature based decks fold to it.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
Read the General Strategy paragraphs one more time. This is not Control nor Aggro. The idea is to -allow- most common strategies of your opponents to be played outright, and render it harmless through a cheap defense -- followed by a swift counterattack.
Beast Within destroys a permanent at instant level. If casted before Living end, the destroyed creature simply returns. If casted after, you can cash the creature out with a sacrifice in response. Either way, Beast Within is wasted.
Fulminator Mage isn't a threat either. I can afford to be Nuked, because that simply means more searches for Wayfarer or KOTWO. Grim Discovery and Sun Titan also recur land.
Faerie Macabre is a very narrow case and it tends to be sideboarded in when talking about a Living End deck. If somehow this guy is a threat to you -- Pithing Needle exists in the sideboard for problems like this.
Credit to DolZero for this awesome sig!
If the board is already destroyed, we're looking to topdeck wayfarers and Kotwos. It's not impossible to recover and win against balance, it just takes a while. I would recommend keeping one land safe in your hand against a deck like that.
Chalice of the Void is actually a sideboard option I have run on-and-off from time to time. I tend to avoid it because it argues with my 1 drops when I need to set it to 1 (which is usually what becomes necessary). It's not a bad idea, though.
Now on to Hagalaz: I'm pretty much going to bypass your comments since you came to be a jerk and ignore the OP warnings before jumping at my throat, but I'll take the pleasure of smiting your argument just this once.
I see you're quite ignorant as well. Midrange is called Midrange for a reason. You know why? It's not for the inevitability factor! Jund midrange isn't trying to win late -- that's for sure. Allow me to help you.
Midrange refers to a deck that is in the middle of the range between the Control-Aggro continuum. It's not trying to win as fast as Aggro nor as late as Control (or this deck for that matter). The idea of midrange is to create windows of opportunity in the 4th-8th(ish) turns in which aggro has lost its flair and Control hasn't had a chance to fully set up a wincon.
There's a distinct difference in this deck -- In many cases, even control is let to do their bidding while their board nukes and countermagic are rendered useless by uncounterable recursion.
That places this deck outside the Control-Aggro continuum, Which makes me kind of... not midrange.
Good try though!
This is primarily why I want to ignore you. The Foreword clearly states you will not understand this deck at all if you just glance at it. Either study the functons, or play with/against this before making a comment if you want anything serious from me.
Moderator Action: Warning for Flaming ~Lantern
Please read the Forum Rules
First thing I noticed was the sideboard. 3 Needles, 2 Orbs, 2 stony silence. That's a rough day for Pod no matter how much removal you have. Needle shuts down the combo, orb shuts down the value and the combo, silence shuts down the tutor (minus chord of calling, of course). However, I feel like Melira is moving in a new direction; decks are running Cartel Aristocrat as another sac outlet, and I believe the new Varolz will also find a home there. Suddenly, Needle seems less useful. I now have 2 other options to Chord for when Needle hits the field. That leaves 4 pieces of hate left to deal with, which I feel is reasonable to overcome without too much trouble.
Onto the mainboard...
As you've described, this deck's purpose is to take a beating, and win. It's a deck with high staying power that can fight through a myriad of hate. I like the Titans for recursion and Wayfarer for the ramp and the Martyrs for life. Emeria's also solid once you have 7 plains, but once you pass your opponent in land count the ramp shuts down, and Emeria takes awhile to get online, especially if you miss land drops.
Now, on a good day, Melira goes off turn 3 if you fail to find removal. More often than not though, it wins through beats and acts like a midrange deck, except with an abnormal amount of staying power. Persist, Reveillark, Eternal Witness, Deathrite Shaman, Gavony Township; all of these fight through hate and life loss like a boss.
Looking at an average Melira Pod decklist, what is your opinion on the matchup? I feel like it is heavily in Pod's favor, even post-board, but I don't have the experience of playing your deck.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
As for the midrange / control / survival argument, this is NOT midrange. This is a deck that wants to win via the inevitability of Emeria. Honestly, I would say this is control, albeit a bit of a strange control variant, but still control nonetheless. I think the strongest points of this deck are the use of weathered wayfarer, grim discovery, and Sun Titan as card advantage engines. I'm not sold on Sky Hussar & Viskopa guildmage even if they can occasionally be awesome.
I think the Kami of False Hope and Realmwright engines are also powerful in here. Personally, I feel like Ranger of Eos deserves a slot in here, at least as a singleton since it can fetch Kami, Realmwright, or Martyr. Another thing - I would personally want to upgrade Knight of the White Orchid to 4x. Its a great card, and especially if you plan on going on turn 2 all the time, there seems no good reason not to play 4 in here.
One thing I didn't mention when testing against this with SDM is that I think it needs some artifact and or enchantment hate in the sideboard. I felt like in the games I tested, I would be able to shut down most of his inevitability engines by resolving a Rest in Peace, Relic of Progenitus, or other common graveyard hate cards.
You are exactly right about the midrange beating scenario: this is usually what it comes down to when facing pod. At this point the deck becomes reliant on using the kamis, martyrs, paths, and wraths to get by, if they haven't been used already. The tipping point is where I get to make Vizkopa bombs or let Admonition Angel loose.
As for the alternate sacrifice methods, a well-placed Path can get rid of whoever's not covered by the silences and needles; although I usually end up responding to a first sacrifice by aiming at the problem permanent: Melira. As long as I focus removal on it and not the pieces that revolve around it, I'm generally OK. Another thing about the needles is that I tend to cast them late as opposed to predicting what's out there.
Missed your post Badd -- There is Stony Silence and Aura of Silence already, but nothing to hate on an enchantment directly unless I pray to topdeck the Aura or wait for A-angel, or Necrotic Sliver. What else could I use?
I understand that Brewers have certain pride in thier craft but OP and others here need to take a chill pill. The attitude given goes above and beyond what is required. I appreciate Brewers.
I read the original post, three times.
Without any sort of validation that this deck is even remotely competitive against even rogue decks, this whole thread is a waste of time.
Maybe if you managed to complete a more comprehensive primer I would spend more time looking at this.
I am going to flag this thread for mods to deal with.
My Modern decks:
B/R/G Living End G/R/B
G/R Tron R/G
U/W/G/R Gargageddon R/G/W/U
R/W/G Naya Burn G/W/R
It's not rage. It's frustration at the attitude pervading this thread. And it's one that I share.
You've put together an incredibly intriguing deck, and you've correctly identified that the deck isn't easy to evaluate. On the surface, it looks like you've collected a pile of do-nothings and just hope to draw the right half of your deck and get there somehow. You've clearly spent a lot of time on your primer, and you've managed to get a lot of people curious about what you're doing. You should consider that a success, but that's only the first step.
The trouble is that new brews pop up all the time. To experienced players they all look terrible and yet the brewers all claim they're awesome. Why should anyone coming into this thread think anything differently just because you've created an extensive primer? It takes time - lots of time - to put together a deck, jam it against the gauntlet, and figure out if it's good. Especially when you've already admitted that the correct lines of play are not obvious. It's natural for experienced players to want more information about holes that they observe before taking that time to test this particular brew over others.
This deck honestly reminds me of a Sam Black brew - in that it looks terrible when you read the decklist. Yet we all know that Sam Black brews win tournaments. Why? Because he's Sam Black! You're not Sam Black (at least, I'm pretty sure you're not). You're SpinDashMaster - if you don't carry a reputation as a successful brewer, you need to be willing to answer any and all criticisms even if you feel they were covered by your primer. Maybe the reader doesn't think certain matchups were covered extensively enough (and honestly they aren't - one sentence is not enough - good primers have entire paragraphs). Maybe the value of a particular interaction is obvious to you, but isn't to a newcomer.
For this to be a success, you need to be inviting - not condescending. It's clear that you've put a lot of work into all of this - it would be a shame for it to get ignored because you drive people away from the thread with your attitude. There have been a lot of valid criticisms in here that you have failed to answer because you believe your primer covered them - when in fact, your primer fails to cover most matchups with even half the rigor it should. I would suggest that you start by updating your primer to sort the matchups into categories (good, decent, coinflip, bad, unwinnable), then dedicate a paragraph to the key interactions of each matchup so that potential testers have some guidelines to follow.
I wish you luck - you've made something interesting here, and I hope it goes somewhere.
It's your job win every game of Magic where you're not.