I know I haven't stuck to my guns like a mutant redneck with suction cups for hands, but there really isn't anyone scummy enough to justify doing so.
Nice.
Well, considering Zionite ditched the thread yet again, that seems like an encouraging sign.
(Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel)
@Xyre: I think there's a VC error (not that it matters much now). I was not voting Iso; I was voting Cyan. Iso had voted for me, then unvoted and voted for Zionite.
After filling your bellies with chocolate, you set to work burying Seppel. Of course, bloated with chocolate and caught out in the southern sun, you're not all that keen on shovel-work, so soon Seppel finds himself thrown unceremoniously head-first into a shallow pit, with his feet stuck up above ground, like he'd decided to take an impromptu swim in the dirt.
Azrael sniffs. "It's what he would've wanted."
"Hey!" Ged shouts. "Someone wasn't doing their share of the digging! That person must be scum!" Quickly discussion turns on Zionite, who backs up against the candy store front.
"It wasn't my fault! I have physical limitations!" Zionite suddenly disappears, revealing his true form, which is... a pot. A very turquoise pot.
"Wait, seriously, you got a pot? That's pretty lame, man," Cyan says.
"Shut up! I have feelings, you know! I was painted this way!" Zionite retorts. He leans onto his side and tries to roll away, but doesn't get far, on account of being a pot. Many hands reach out and pick him up, but with a laugh, Zionite transforms into a long-haired, medieval-looking guy, who crushes DYH and Iso beneath his weight.
"Oh my god, it's George Bush!" Axelrod shouts. "And he's wearing... plate-mail?"
"Haha! No, you fool! I'm Jaqen H'ghar, master of mysteries! And you'll never catch me!" Zionite says, laughing. He turns and runs toward the candy store, intending to make his escape through. He reaches the door, grabs at the handle, pulls it -
With a shudder, the store front gives way, leaning toward him. Zionite looks up, tries to get out a death-scream, and finds his effort quashed by three hundred pounds of plywood. "AAAAHHHHGRUCH"
"So he was really the evil warlock Ahgruch! Of course! It makes so much sense!" ZeDorkSlipeur says, rubbing his invisible chin thoughtfully.
"Wait, if the store never was there, how did we eat all this candy...?" Iso asks.
Morpheus shakes his head mournfully. "Forget it, Iso. It's Warner Bros. studios...town."
"No, it's not."
"Shut up."
Zionite, A Cyan Chamber Pot, The First of His Name, A Personal Receptacle Painted an Unusual Color, the Eldest Son of a Pot and a Kettle - Mafia Impersonator, has been lynched.
ZeDorkSlipeur's incorporeality has expired.
It is now Night 1. Night will end on April 25th at 11am MST.
This is not a normal reaction at all. It's a "Man, I'm going to find a logic hole in Az's argument so I can denounce it!" rather than an actual defense for himself or an attack on Az. It's all about discrediting his attacker, which isn't a town mindset.
I dont think you understand what I'm saying. Its not about "logic" holes. Its about him saying one thing at one time and then something rather different another. I'm trying to find an example of what I'm talking about. I know this post about Zionite pinged hard:
A lot of people don't like him because he's been repeatedly evasive and misrepping in response to WOLG's PBPA on him.
He has very little in the way of meaningful activity.
Some of us think his reactions about setting a trap for you early on were off: it looked like he was intended to set a trap for you in particular, AE, and when he instead wound up netting ZDS, he wasn't all that pleased. A townie would have been fine with trapping any scum - but he wasn't. He was aiming to get you to overreact, in particular, and it didn't pan out like he intended.
I disliked the bit where he tried to argue against Iso being pending-cleared by ignoring parts of my argument.
I think he looks bad by either full or partial process of elimination.
Axelrod also pointed out where Zionite had absolutely zero reaction to Axel's sudden vote-switch onto him. I'm not a fan of that either, although I'd say that looks bad for both of them, not just Zionite.
I'm fairly certain Az didn't say anything like that at the time. My recollection is that he was totally with Zionite and the "trap" vote and how it may have "flushed" out ZDS. But now its like he's trying to claim credit (by lumping himself in with "us") for being suspicious of Zionite earlier. There is more like that.
My internet is crap where I am and I'm on a netbook instead of a real computer so reviewing the thread and posting anything is an incredible pain.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
(A reminder: if you use an ability and I don't send you a response PM, that means everything worked normally to the best of your knowledge.)
When you arrive back in the town square after a restless night, you discover two of your group are missing.
One of them is Morpheus, who runs up breathless a moment later, carrying a bag and a bucket. "Hey everyone, I figured you'd be famished, so I thought I'd bring some breakfast. I've got pastries, and some water!"
Az scratches his head. "Uh, Morpheus, these stores aren't real, right? So, one might expect there isn't just a random cafe down the street selling muffins. So..."
Morpheus looks down at his bag of cardboard muffins and frowns. "Well, uh, if you want to use your imagination..."
One loud, collective groan goes up from the rest of you. An angry Void decides to walk up behind Morpheus, take his bucket of water, and pour it over his head, soaking the muffins in the process.
"Augh!" Morpheus sputters, shaking water off his bald head. "Now what will we eat?"
"Maybe DYH has food," Cyan says. "He's certainly not here right now. I bet he's holding out on us!"
One short trek to DYH's place later, you discover the error of your ways, as DYH was disintegrating on his front porch, which is now covered in a viscous cyan ooze. Ged leans over DYH's body. In the middle of his head is a small hole. Shuddering slightly, Ged rolls up his sleeve and reaches into the hole, removing a bullet. "This is not good," he says.
He looks down at his hand for a long moment, then gingerly licks the blue-green slime coating it. His eyes light up. "Actually, he's pretty tasty."
And so a breakfast feast was to be had after all - though at the price of one of your members, felled before his time... and the relaxation of certain moral codes.
DYH has been killed. He was Cyan Goo - Town Goober.
It is now Day 2. With nine alive, it is five to lynch.
I took myself a few deep breaths over the Night and resolved myself to not get mad or upset with anyone anymore in this game. This is a recurring problem I seem to have whenever someone calls me scum when I am not. I get almost irrationally angry about it (because look how wrong they are....) It's just a game, however, supposed to be fun, and definitely not worth upsetting anyone over or getting upset.
So, today, I'm all about the love.
This does not mean I won't still point out when someone is incredibly wrong. I will just do it with love. and avoid as much as possible the snark and biting sarcasm.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
I also do intend to parse Az's posting of yesterday to see how that all looks. I want to give him credit for (correctly) turning on Zionite at the end, but the push on me and awful attempt to link me and Zionite (and Froph for that matter) knock him down several pegs.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, I don't know what that was, but if you just killed me Iso....
STILL LOVE
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
- WolG is most assuredly town. As Zionite's buddy, he had many occasions to give up on bussing him, and nobody would have noticed.
- Archmage is very likely town. Chances are Zionite's trap was intended to let Archmage meta-defend him (which is only possible if Archmage is town).
- Speaking of Zionite's trap, it clears me.
- Axel's interactions with Zionite are more ":eyebrow:" than ":mad:". The last sentence of #99 reads incredibly fake though.
- Froph not commenting on Zionite at all then saying he had a scum read all along is pretty damn bad.
----
Void just replaced in. For Froph.
----
For the record, I was redirected tonight. Flavour is that I was bribed, and I do not know toward who I was redirected.
My original target was Iso, on the off chance it cancelled his drawback (since I block passive abilities but don't block kills).
Whoever my new target was is probably town.
What a load of crap and/or WIFOM this post is. The only accurate part is the part about WOLG and Froph. The rest of it is nonsense. Zionite's behavior regarding you and AE is more likely to be a terrible attempt at bussing on his part than it is anything else. For reference, please see his play in Cyberspace Mafia Day 1.
Also, intimating that the person that redirected you must be scum, based on nothing, is also highly questionable. You were one accidental pardon away from getting lynched yesterday. Plenty of people were suspicious of you, making you an ideal target for a redirect, especially given that you claimed RB.
Axelrod's name is blue when looking at the player list in post 1.
Zionite was obviously trying to bait an easy mislynch of A_E early in the game, and I remember someone saying that it was odd that he wasn't excited when ZDS fell into that trap. I think he reacted the way he did because ZDS is his scumbuddy.
The "If we are both scum, why did I not ignore his trap?" logic is full of poisoned wine.
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-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Zionite's behavior regarding you and AE is more likely to be a terrible attempt at bussing on his part than it is anything else. For reference, please see his play in Cyberspace Mafia Day 1.
Yeah, that's what made me immediately jump to Zionite when ZDS asked me to look at the wagon objectively - Zionite did the same thing to RR when the pressure built.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Ok. So...I guess that means Axel isn't getting daykilled? Good.
Also: I mixed up DYH in this game with that other ongoing game I'm not allowed to mention. My bad.
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-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also, intimating that the person that redirected you must be scum, based on nothing, is also highly questionable.
Going by day 1 it makes sense that they are town. ZDS was redirected to me. Proly thinking if I was scum ZDS would block me making a kill or something. But ironically it actually helped me. Lets see.
Everyone needs to back off of voting ZDS, he's got at least 3 three votes already and we don't need another accidental lynch. Unless it's like the last one. But really, no.
DYH has been killed. He was Cyan Goo - Town Goober.
It is now Day 2. With nine alive, it is five to lynch.
Deadline is set for May 9th at 12pm MST.
They killed DYH because he was cleared behaviorally and wanting to help me kill Axel. If Axel dies, their game goes into the crapper.
Could have killed Iso, who is also cleared behaviorally and by his claim, and who is a power role to boot. They didn't, because Iso hasn't figured out Axel is scum yet. Could have killed me, but that would make it too obvious.
I like ZDS's original choice of target. It's clever.
Quote from Axelrod »
I'm fairly certain Az didn't say anything like that at the time. My recollection is that he was totally with Zionite and the "trap" vote and how it may have "flushed" out ZDS. But now its like he's trying to claim credit (by lumping himself in with "us") for being suspicious of Zionite earlier. There is more like that.
Correct but incomplete. I changed my take on that during the dreadnought. But I think DYH hit the nail on the head when he said you're just trolling for ways to discredit me at this point, not actually looking for evidence that I'm scum, or presenting evidence that you're town.
I also noticed that you're struggling to maintain your false skepticism/suspicion of me now that Zionite's in the bag. I don't think that was a good choice for you.
Vote harder: Axelrod. This vote isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
I'm willing to look at ZDS later on this game, but I'd really, really prefer we pick off Axelrod first.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Well, like I said, I haven't even decided if you're scum or not yet. I kind of want to give you the benefit of the doubt, but as you keep attacking me, it kind of makes it harder to see the good intentions.
And you are changing your tones rather quickly this game. Again, even just with this first post, this just stuck out:
Quote from Azrael »
I am not at all surprised that DYH, who was also leaning towards an Axel lynch, was their pick for the kill
when you were just saying:
Quote from Azrael »
I want to...confirm my analysis before they have a chance to silence me with their next kill and possibly win the subsequent arguments.
and
Quote from Azrael »
And if I'm not dead shortly myself, I'll be shocked.
That kind of makes it harder too.
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Quote from Bateleur »
Ambush Krotiq makes me laugh so much. I keep rereading the card and it keeps not having Flash. In what sense is this an ambush again? I just have visions of this huge Krotiq poorly concealed in some bushes, feeling slightly sad that his carefully planned ambushes never seem to work.
Also, Void, who's town, and who's scum, aka is Axel your buddy?
It's hard to know anything about the game when you barely into Day 1 of reading.
I'm not scum this game.
I really dislike your NK post. I haven't read the game fully, barely at all, but it would seem that if Axel was a suspect of yours that you would have something more to say about him rather than use the NK as reasoning. If it's something I haven't read yet, then let me know and I will come across it.
Iso
Have you seen any interactions from ZDS and Axel that would give you reason to believe they are scum buddies? Or do you believe that if one flips scum the other won't?
ZDS
Who is your top suspect at the moment and why are you not voting for that player?
That's uncalled-for. I would very much appreciate if you could stop talking to/about me like I pooped on your front door.
Nice misrepresentation. Belittling my points doesn't make them less valid, and portraying them in such a poor fashion instead of just logically assessing them only makes you look guilty.
I don't see how your conclusion follows from your premises. Can you explain?
You are clearly putting forth the notion that you are town, and therefore, whomever redirected you must be scum. This doesn't track, because presumably 1/2 of the game thread or more thought you were scum yesterday, and thought that they would be redirecting the scum RB by targeting you.
A quick scan of Cyberspace reveals Zionite was much more insistent against Robroy than he was against me; here he just patted himself on the back a couple times then gladly sat on the sidelines.
Really the only common point is how early Zionite laid down his votes. But to say this is relevant implies assuming either scum Zionite always votes a buddy super-early on, or when scum Zionite votes super-early on it's always against a buddy. Both of which are unfounded and ludicrous assumptions.
You appear to trying to handwave Zionite's prior(and current, for that matter) behavior as scum. Consider me dissatisfied. Zionite's behavior re: RobRoy was definitely similar to his behavior re: you. He got involved in each wagon in almost exactly the same manner. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Maybe you're just hoping that we'll take your word for it? That's a poor bluff.
@Iso(and Azrael, and whomever): ZDS is far more likely to be scum than Axelrod. It's not even close. I'm willing to look at Axelrod as possible scum tomorrow, but ZDS is a lynch that should have happened for some time now. He is the most likely person in this thread to be scum. By far.
Nice misrepresentation. Belittling my points doesn't make them less valid, and portraying them in such a poor fashion instead of just logically assessing them only makes you look guilty.
Your town there actually was pretty harsh.
Quote from Cyan »
You are clearly putting forth the notion that you are town, and therefore, whomever redirected you must be scum. This doesn't track, because presumably 1/2 of the game thread or more thought you were scum yesterday, and thought that they would be redirecting the scum RB by targeting you.
True, but that's a common mindset for townies to adopt.
Quote from Cyan »
You appear to trying to handwave Zionite's prior(and current, for that matter) behavior as scum. Consider me dissatisfied. Zionite's behavior re: RobRoy was definitely similar to his behavior re: you. He got involved in each wagon in almost exactly the same manner. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Maybe you're just hoping that we'll take your word for it? That's a poor bluff.
I really, really dislike this style of meta analysis, where you simply compare two situations with similiar behavior and infer that you have similar alignments with both parties. There are far too many variables unaccounted for, and very little reason to presume that you have a relevant causation, rather than an irrelevant correlation.
Quote from Cyan »
@Iso(and Azrael, and whomever): ZDS is far more likely to be scum than Axelrod. It's not even close. I'm willing to look at Axelrod as possible scum tomorrow, but ZDS is a lynch that should have happened for some time now. He is the most likely person in this thread to be scum. By far.
There are definitely some concerning points you could choose to argue for ZDS being scum - I've not exactly been his biggest fan this game, to put it mildly.
But if you're going to say that ZDS is scum, you need to account for several factors.
1. Why did ZDS sound so completely and utterly convinced that my methods were bonkers?
2. Why has he been so consistently conscientious and thoughtful in doing analysis, despite being under crushing pressure the entire game?
3. How could he bounce back from being that close to the lynch, so easily?
For sure, his tone this game has been very off-putting. He's eager to present himself as useful, enthusiastic about multiple wagons. And at times, he's been extremely caustic and dismissive. Those are all real strikes against him.
But, it's easy to read further into that town and those attitudes than one ought. Our analysis ought to take the entire picture into account, and in ZDS's case, I see a lot of signs of a townie alignment that are very difficult to fake. Scum attitude, but town alignment.
If we were in a larger game, I would have called him as a very likely candidate for neutral, for sure. He still might be. But I don't think he's a good choice for mafia. A potential choice, but not a good one.
You want a good candidate, without any of those pesky town tells, who keeps digging himself deeper and deeper into the hole? You know what to do.
I disagree with you on various counts. For one, you assert that ZDS has offered relevant and meaningful scum hunting. I don't think he has. He certainly had no hand whatsoever in Zionite being lynched, despite the fact that Zionite had such a poor vote against him. The best example of scum hunting on his part is a single probing question that he asked Froph.
You also assert that he is probably town because of his attitude after Seppel pardoned him. I believe that this indicates nothing other than that he is an experienced player. He was clearly getting lynched but then..didn't. Whether he is town or scum, he should still approach the game the same way from that point...to try to assist his team as much as possible. If we were talking about some newb, you might have a point here. But we're not.
As for his attitude toward your case on him..this is not an alignment tell for ZDS. I can't recall ever seeing him acknowledge that a case against him was solid, even in cases(such as this game!) where this is clearly the case. He is just exceedingly arrogant(which is ironic, considering how he initially reacted to you).
I'm not even saying that Axelrod might not be a good wagon. His posts today have felt incredibly forced. But ultimately, Axelrod is nowhere near as valid a wagon as ZDS is.
I disagree with you on various counts. For one, you assert that ZDS has offered relevant and meaningful scum hunting. I don't think he has. He certainly had no hand whatsoever in Zionite being lynched, despite the fact that Zionite had such a poor vote against him. The best example of scum hunting on his part is a single probing question that he asked Froph.
You don't think so? He's asked a lot of good questions, he's clearly reading the thread, and he consistently points out some very finely detailed tells. The tail end of Axel's post 99 is one example - those are scattered throughout his posting history, if you read him carefully.
Quote from ZDS »
You also assert that he is probably town because of his attitude after Seppel pardoned him. I believe that this indicates nothing other than that he is an experienced player. He was clearly getting lynched but then..didn't. Whether he is town or scum, he should still approach the game the same way from that point...to try to assist his team as much as possible. If we were talking about some newb, you might have a point here. But we're not.
As for his attitude toward your case on him..this is not an alignment tell for ZDS. I can't recall ever seeing him acknowledge that a case against him was solid, even in cases(such as this game!) where this is clearly the case. He is just exceedingly arrogant(which is ironic, considering how he initially reacted to you).
I'm not even saying that Axelrod might not be a good wagon. His posts today have felt incredibly forced. But ultimately, Axelrod is nowhere near as valid a wagon as ZDS is.
Partly his attitude after Seppel pardoned him, and my case, but really, his attitude throughout. Its not even that he never gave up or admitted my case had validity, I certainly wouldn't expect those things from any scum player.
He's just clearly...completely unfazed by the fact that so many people think he's scum. It doesn't matter - like he said at one point, he's become numb to it. Which means he's angry about it - but he's still not letting that get in the way of his playing the game, and hunting scum.
Typically, coming under suspicion as scum has *some* kind of effect on that player. You can clearly see Axelrod beginning to degenerate now that he's been called out. Like, his self-conscious efforts to not go on tilt, despite me being the only person who's really going after him that hard. But ZDS? He's had the entire thread calling for his head, and it's mostly just bouncing off of him. He just keeps right on scum-hunting, calling people out, and doing detailed behavioral reads. And he's doing it so convincingly and repeatedly, that it seems very much to me like he's doing it for the love of the game and simple curiosity, not as a pretense.
I think, much like AE, you're reacting to his tone and his attitude, primarily. But in this case, it sounds like that's just his way, not an alignment tell.
He has too many good townie tells offsetting his potential scum tells for me to get behind taking him out today.
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@A_E: Are you going to respond to the points raised against you in the post I voted you?
@ZDS: I wouldn't say that is a sensible argument. You calling out Zionite for his crappy vote is something I could see you doing as either town or scum. His reaction to it, his vote on you, and the way he interacted with you is what is making me state that he was treating you like you were his scum buddy. That, along with your play this game, leads me to think you are scum. Az is sticking up for you, but I'm getting a completely different read on you than he is.
I'm really not liking the past few posts from Axelrod. They are reading completely different from the scum hunting, pro-town player I was reading during most of yesterday. I'm looking forward to an actual response from him to Az.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Hey WoLG, I'll ask to make sure I read that right - why is it good that Axelrod is not dead?
He hasn't had the chance to respond appropriately to Az's case on him. Killing him at this point would be depriving the town of a lot of valuable information. Information like who votes him, who joins in on the attack on him, who stays quiet, who believes or doesn't believe his claim if it gets to that point.
Though I'm glad the rest of you finally saw the light with Zionite, I would have liked to have given him time to claim in order to obtain this same type of information. He could have possibly implicated more of his scumbuddies before he was lynched, after all, we had a some time before the deadline where more discussion could have taken place.
See, this isn't fair. When I do (or heck, someone else does) something that can be seen as scummy it makes me scum, but when I do something unmistakably townie it means kangaroo droppings.
You are not even making a point here. You are stating you have decided to give little credence to my townie actions. By this logic I can never be read as town by you.
This type of language is one of the reasons that I find you scummy. Trying to play on emotions and complaining about how you aren't treated fairly isn't evidence of a townie mindset to me. I'd point out that you're misrepresenting my post, but I feel like you'd just come back with some more "woe is me I'm so obv town and no one is listening and life isn't fair" bullcrap. What you see yourself doing as "unmistakably townie" doesn't make you unmistakably town to everyone else. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt saying that your play there didn't necessarily make you scum, and you respond by stating that I'm saying you can only be scum.
The point I was making is that Zionite's actions as scum seem to implicate you, and that *in addition* to your play leads me to believe that you are scum. You were almost lynched pretty early in the day yesterday, and many players have expressed suspicion of you. Does that not tell you that maybe it's *your* play that is scummy, and not everyone else being wrong or treating you unfairly?
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
2011: Best Mafia Performance (Individual) - Best Newcomer
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
This type of language is one of the reasons that I find you scummy. Trying to play on emotions and complaining about how you aren't treated fairly isn't evidence of a townie mindset to me.
He said that's something he does regardless of alignment, though.
I think he might just have a really scummy townie playstyle.
This isn't the first time I've been "accidentally" lynched either.
Nice.
Well, considering Zionite ditched the thread yet again, that seems like an encouraging sign.
(Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel Kill Axel)
(6 to lynch)
Archmage Eternal - 2 (Axelrod, Zionite)
Cyan - 1 (FrophMoff)
Zionite - 6 (Ged, WellofLostGnomes, Azrael, Cyan, ZeDorkSlipeur, Iso)
Not Voting: Archmage Eternal, DYH
Indeed, Iso did lynch Zionite. Stand by for twilight.
EDIT: Corrected for DYH's feedback.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
@Xyre: I think there's a VC error (not that it matters much now). I was not voting Iso; I was voting Cyan. Iso had voted for me, then unvoted and voted for Zionite.
V/LA: 3/21-3/24 & 3/27-3/29
Azrael sniffs. "It's what he would've wanted."
"Hey!" Ged shouts. "Someone wasn't doing their share of the digging! That person must be scum!" Quickly discussion turns on Zionite, who backs up against the candy store front.
"It wasn't my fault! I have physical limitations!" Zionite suddenly disappears, revealing his true form, which is... a pot. A very turquoise pot.
"Wait, seriously, you got a pot? That's pretty lame, man," Cyan says.
"Shut up! I have feelings, you know! I was painted this way!" Zionite retorts. He leans onto his side and tries to roll away, but doesn't get far, on account of being a pot. Many hands reach out and pick him up, but with a laugh, Zionite transforms into a long-haired, medieval-looking guy, who crushes DYH and Iso beneath his weight.
"Oh my god, it's George Bush!" Axelrod shouts. "And he's wearing... plate-mail?"
"Haha! No, you fool! I'm Jaqen H'ghar, master of mysteries! And you'll never catch me!" Zionite says, laughing. He turns and runs toward the candy store, intending to make his escape through. He reaches the door, grabs at the handle, pulls it -
With a shudder, the store front gives way, leaning toward him. Zionite looks up, tries to get out a death-scream, and finds his effort quashed by three hundred pounds of plywood. "AAAAHHHHGRUCH"
"So he was really the evil warlock Ahgruch! Of course! It makes so much sense!" ZeDorkSlipeur says, rubbing his invisible chin thoughtfully.
"Wait, if the store never was there, how did we eat all this candy...?" Iso asks.
Morpheus shakes his head mournfully. "Forget it, Iso. It's Warner Bros. studios...town."
"No, it's not."
"Shut up."
Zionite, A Cyan Chamber Pot, The First of His Name, A Personal Receptacle Painted an Unusual Color, the Eldest Son of a Pot and a Kettle - Mafia Impersonator, has been lynched.
ZeDorkSlipeur's incorporeality has expired.
It is now Night 1. Night will end on April 25th at 11am MST.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I dont think you understand what I'm saying. Its not about "logic" holes. Its about him saying one thing at one time and then something rather different another. I'm trying to find an example of what I'm talking about. I know this post about Zionite pinged hard:
I'm fairly certain Az didn't say anything like that at the time. My recollection is that he was totally with Zionite and the "trap" vote and how it may have "flushed" out ZDS. But now its like he's trying to claim credit (by lumping himself in with "us") for being suspicious of Zionite earlier. There is more like that.
My internet is crap where I am and I'm on a netbook instead of a real computer so reviewing the thread and posting anything is an incredible pain.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
When you arrive back in the town square after a restless night, you discover two of your group are missing.
One of them is Morpheus, who runs up breathless a moment later, carrying a bag and a bucket. "Hey everyone, I figured you'd be famished, so I thought I'd bring some breakfast. I've got pastries, and some water!"
Az scratches his head. "Uh, Morpheus, these stores aren't real, right? So, one might expect there isn't just a random cafe down the street selling muffins. So..."
Morpheus looks down at his bag of cardboard muffins and frowns. "Well, uh, if you want to use your imagination..."
One loud, collective groan goes up from the rest of you. An angry Void decides to walk up behind Morpheus, take his bucket of water, and pour it over his head, soaking the muffins in the process.
"Augh!" Morpheus sputters, shaking water off his bald head. "Now what will we eat?"
"Maybe DYH has food," Cyan says. "He's certainly not here right now. I bet he's holding out on us!"
One short trek to DYH's place later, you discover the error of your ways, as DYH was disintegrating on his front porch, which is now covered in a viscous cyan ooze. Ged leans over DYH's body. In the middle of his head is a small hole. Shuddering slightly, Ged rolls up his sleeve and reaches into the hole, removing a bullet. "This is not good," he says.
He looks down at his hand for a long moment, then gingerly licks the blue-green slime coating it. His eyes light up. "Actually, he's pretty tasty."
And so a breakfast feast was to be had after all - though at the price of one of your members, felled before his time... and the relaxation of certain moral codes.
DYH has been killed. He was Cyan Goo - Town Goober.
It is now Day 2. With nine alive, it is five to lynch.
Deadline is set for May 9th at 12pm MST.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
I'm really confused about the DYH death, after all he just replaced in.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
So, today, I'm all about the love.
This does not mean I won't still point out when someone is incredibly wrong. I will just do it with love. and avoid as much as possible the snark and biting sarcasm.
Vote ZDS
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
STILL LOVE
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
You don't know who you were Redirected to?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
What a load of crap and/or WIFOM this post is. The only accurate part is the part about WOLG and Froph. The rest of it is nonsense. Zionite's behavior regarding you and AE is more likely to be a terrible attempt at bussing on his part than it is anything else. For reference, please see his play in Cyberspace Mafia Day 1.
Also, intimating that the person that redirected you must be scum, based on nothing, is also highly questionable. You were one accidental pardon away from getting lynched yesterday. Plenty of people were suspicious of you, making you an ideal target for a redirect, especially given that you claimed RB.
Zionite was obviously trying to bait an easy mislynch of A_E early in the game, and I remember someone saying that it was odd that he wasn't excited when ZDS fell into that trap. I think he reacted the way he did because ZDS is his scumbuddy.
The "If we are both scum, why did I not ignore his trap?" logic is full of poisoned wine.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
Yeah, that's what made me immediately jump to Zionite when ZDS asked me to look at the wagon objectively - Zionite did the same thing to RR when the pressure built.
Vote ZDS
Didn't notice that.
Hey Axel, what's up?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
SO I've noticed that we have a CYAN Chamber Pot and CYAN Goo dead.
CYAN'S IMPOSSIBLE MAFIA, ROUND 2.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Also: I mixed up DYH in this game with that other ongoing game I'm not allowed to mention. My bad.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Going by day 1 it makes sense that they are town. ZDS was redirected to me. Proly thinking if I was scum ZDS would block me making a kill or something. But ironically it actually helped me. Lets see.
vote ZDS
Thats what I'm going off of.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
I was really, really rooting for that to work.
I am not at all surprised that DYH, who was also leaning towards an Axel lynch, was their pick for the kill.
Vote: Axelrod. Time to die, scum. (With love)
Um....
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Yes?
They killed DYH because he was cleared behaviorally and wanting to help me kill Axel. If Axel dies, their game goes into the crapper.
Could have killed Iso, who is also cleared behaviorally and by his claim, and who is a power role to boot. They didn't, because Iso hasn't figured out Axel is scum yet. Could have killed me, but that would make it too obvious.
I like ZDS's original choice of target. It's clever.
Correct but incomplete. I changed my take on that during the dreadnought. But I think DYH hit the nail on the head when he said you're just trolling for ways to discredit me at this point, not actually looking for evidence that I'm scum, or presenting evidence that you're town.
I also noticed that you're struggling to maintain your false skepticism/suspicion of me now that Zionite's in the bag. I don't think that was a good choice for you.
Vote harder: Axelrod. This vote isn't going anywhere anytime soon.
I'm willing to look at ZDS later on this game, but I'd really, really prefer we pick off Axelrod first.
Unvote, Vote Axelrod
(I almost typed Azelrod on accident; or would it be an axident? :uhh:)
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
And you are changing your tones rather quickly this game. Again, even just with this first post, this just stuck out:
when you were just saying:
and
That kind of makes it harder too.
It's hard to know anything about the game when you barely into Day 1 of reading.
I'm not scum this game.
I really dislike your NK post. I haven't read the game fully, barely at all, but it would seem that if Axel was a suspect of yours that you would have something more to say about him rather than use the NK as reasoning. If it's something I haven't read yet, then let me know and I will come across it.
Iso
Have you seen any interactions from ZDS and Axel that would give you reason to believe they are scum buddies? Or do you believe that if one flips scum the other won't?
ZDS
Who is your top suspect at the moment and why are you not voting for that player?
You'll get there, eventually.
Please see WIFOM
Nice misrepresentation. Belittling my points doesn't make them less valid, and portraying them in such a poor fashion instead of just logically assessing them only makes you look guilty.
You are clearly putting forth the notion that you are town, and therefore, whomever redirected you must be scum. This doesn't track, because presumably 1/2 of the game thread or more thought you were scum yesterday, and thought that they would be redirecting the scum RB by targeting you.
You appear to trying to handwave Zionite's prior(and current, for that matter) behavior as scum. Consider me dissatisfied. Zionite's behavior re: RobRoy was definitely similar to his behavior re: you. He got involved in each wagon in almost exactly the same manner. I don't know how you can argue otherwise. Maybe you're just hoping that we'll take your word for it? That's a poor bluff.
@Iso(and Azrael, and whomever): ZDS is far more likely to be scum than Axelrod. It's not even close. I'm willing to look at Axelrod as possible scum tomorrow, but ZDS is a lynch that should have happened for some time now. He is the most likely person in this thread to be scum. By far.
Nevermind, I confused the post.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Your town there actually was pretty harsh.
True, but that's a common mindset for townies to adopt.
I really, really dislike this style of meta analysis, where you simply compare two situations with similiar behavior and infer that you have similar alignments with both parties. There are far too many variables unaccounted for, and very little reason to presume that you have a relevant causation, rather than an irrelevant correlation.
There are definitely some concerning points you could choose to argue for ZDS being scum - I've not exactly been his biggest fan this game, to put it mildly.
But if you're going to say that ZDS is scum, you need to account for several factors.
1. Why did ZDS sound so completely and utterly convinced that my methods were bonkers?
2. Why has he been so consistently conscientious and thoughtful in doing analysis, despite being under crushing pressure the entire game?
3. How could he bounce back from being that close to the lynch, so easily?
For sure, his tone this game has been very off-putting. He's eager to present himself as useful, enthusiastic about multiple wagons. And at times, he's been extremely caustic and dismissive. Those are all real strikes against him.
But, it's easy to read further into that town and those attitudes than one ought. Our analysis ought to take the entire picture into account, and in ZDS's case, I see a lot of signs of a townie alignment that are very difficult to fake. Scum attitude, but town alignment.
If we were in a larger game, I would have called him as a very likely candidate for neutral, for sure. He still might be. But I don't think he's a good choice for mafia. A potential choice, but not a good one.
You want a good candidate, without any of those pesky town tells, who keeps digging himself deeper and deeper into the hole? You know what to do.
You also assert that he is probably town because of his attitude after Seppel pardoned him. I believe that this indicates nothing other than that he is an experienced player. He was clearly getting lynched but then..didn't. Whether he is town or scum, he should still approach the game the same way from that point...to try to assist his team as much as possible. If we were talking about some newb, you might have a point here. But we're not.
As for his attitude toward your case on him..this is not an alignment tell for ZDS. I can't recall ever seeing him acknowledge that a case against him was solid, even in cases(such as this game!) where this is clearly the case. He is just exceedingly arrogant(which is ironic, considering how he initially reacted to you).
I'm not even saying that Axelrod might not be a good wagon. His posts today have felt incredibly forced. But ultimately, Axelrod is nowhere near as valid a wagon as ZDS is.
You don't think so? He's asked a lot of good questions, he's clearly reading the thread, and he consistently points out some very finely detailed tells. The tail end of Axel's post 99 is one example - those are scattered throughout his posting history, if you read him carefully.
Partly his attitude after Seppel pardoned him, and my case, but really, his attitude throughout. Its not even that he never gave up or admitted my case had validity, I certainly wouldn't expect those things from any scum player.
He's just clearly...completely unfazed by the fact that so many people think he's scum. It doesn't matter - like he said at one point, he's become numb to it. Which means he's angry about it - but he's still not letting that get in the way of his playing the game, and hunting scum.
Typically, coming under suspicion as scum has *some* kind of effect on that player. You can clearly see Axelrod beginning to degenerate now that he's been called out. Like, his self-conscious efforts to not go on tilt, despite me being the only person who's really going after him that hard. But ZDS? He's had the entire thread calling for his head, and it's mostly just bouncing off of him. He just keeps right on scum-hunting, calling people out, and doing detailed behavioral reads. And he's doing it so convincingly and repeatedly, that it seems very much to me like he's doing it for the love of the game and simple curiosity, not as a pretense.
I think, much like AE, you're reacting to his tone and his attitude, primarily. But in this case, it sounds like that's just his way, not an alignment tell.
He has too many good townie tells offsetting his potential scum tells for me to get behind taking him out today.
Unvote, Vote ZDS
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Unvote, Vote Void
This is the place our votes need to be.
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
Hey WoLG, I'll ask to make sure I read that right - why is it good that Axelrod is not dead?
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
@ZDS: I wouldn't say that is a sensible argument. You calling out Zionite for his crappy vote is something I could see you doing as either town or scum. His reaction to it, his vote on you, and the way he interacted with you is what is making me state that he was treating you like you were his scum buddy. That, along with your play this game, leads me to think you are scum. Az is sticking up for you, but I'm getting a completely different read on you than he is.
I'm really not liking the past few posts from Axelrod. They are reading completely different from the scum hunting, pro-town player I was reading during most of yesterday. I'm looking forward to an actual response from him to Az.
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
He hasn't had the chance to respond appropriately to Az's case on him. Killing him at this point would be depriving the town of a lot of valuable information. Information like who votes him, who joins in on the attack on him, who stays quiet, who believes or doesn't believe his claim if it gets to that point.
Though I'm glad the rest of you finally saw the light with Zionite, I would have liked to have given him time to claim in order to obtain this same type of information. He could have possibly implicated more of his scumbuddies before he was lynched, after all, we had a some time before the deadline where more discussion could have taken place.
This type of language is one of the reasons that I find you scummy. Trying to play on emotions and complaining about how you aren't treated fairly isn't evidence of a townie mindset to me. I'd point out that you're misrepresenting my post, but I feel like you'd just come back with some more "woe is me I'm so obv town and no one is listening and life isn't fair" bullcrap. What you see yourself doing as "unmistakably townie" doesn't make you unmistakably town to everyone else. I even gave you the benefit of the doubt saying that your play there didn't necessarily make you scum, and you respond by stating that I'm saying you can only be scum.
The point I was making is that Zionite's actions as scum seem to implicate you, and that *in addition* to your play leads me to believe that you are scum. You were almost lynched pretty early in the day yesterday, and many players have expressed suspicion of you. Does that not tell you that maybe it's *your* play that is scummy, and not everyone else being wrong or treating you unfairly?
-[thread=14456]The [Untitled] Avatar and Sig shop![/thread] Avatar from:[thread=25376] [Epic Graphics][/thread]
Awards:
Elegant Mafia: The Joker, Mafia MVP
{мы, тьма}
2012: Best (False?) Role Claim - Worst Town Performance (Group) - Best Mafia Performance (Group) - Best SK Performance - Best Overall Player
2013: Best Non-SK Neutral Performance
2014: Best Town Performance (Individual) - Best Town Performance (Group) - Most Interesting Role - Best Game - Best Overall Player
2015: Worst Mafia Performance (Group) - Best Read
2016: Best Town Performance (Group) - Best Town Player - Best Overall Player
I don't disagree, at all. But I'd like to take out Axel while I'm still alive, and finish off Void/FM after some more observation.
He said that's something he does regardless of alignment, though.
I think he might just have a really scummy townie playstyle.