how does one deal with wrath effects with this deck? and in a 5-6 people game how does one win with out infinite kikjiji combo?
I used to use Fecundity as a way of gaining value after a wrath, but it is dependent on your meta as token decks gain a lot more value from Fecundity than I do.
Regarding winning 5 or 6 player games, Psychosis Crawler and mass card draw does it too :).
how does one deal with wrath effects with this deck? and in a 5-6 people game how does one win with out infinite kikjiji combo?
Play more creatures and run counterspells. There are three creatures with ETB counter spells as far as I am aware, run all three. Then just play more creatures.
How do you win without Kiki-jiki? Any number of other infinite or nigh-infinite combos. No deck is going to be consistent in 5-6 player games, EDH is best at 4 players.
if my counting is correct, there's only 99 cards including animar itself.
I have been making some changes, so may have forgotten to add something new while taking out something else. I'll have to have a careful check of the deck and decklists to see what is missing. Thanks for bringing this to my attention
All would be good in a '+1/+1 counters matter' build. In my current build I don't run enough creatures that end up with counters. Give // Take would have been an awesome instant, but as a sorcery I think it's pretty average. Vorel of the Hull Clade really needs to be built around for effect, I'm not sure he can slot into any old Animar deck. Bred for the Hunt and Renegade Krasis require most creatures to be using +1/+1 counters before I would consider adding them. Coastal Piracy or even Edric, Spymaster of Trest is much less restrictive if you want to be drawing cards via your combat step.
Progenitor Mimic - An extra clone that clones itself is always good. Great cast cost at 6cc and having G in its cast cost makes it a very worthwhile inclusion. Green Sun Zenith, Natural Order, and most importantly fierce empath can tutor for it.
Possibility Storm - Chaotic triggers affect every player, makes it hard for combo players to start off their combos. Turns all my morph and mana myr into freebies. Good combo with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as a softlock.
Progenitor Mimic - An extra clone that clones itself is always good. Great cast cost at 6cc and having G in its cast cost makes it a very worthwhile inclusion. Green Sun Zenith, Natural Order, and most importantly fierce empath can tutor for it.
Possibility Storm - Chaotic triggers affect every player, makes it hard for combo players to start off their combos. Turns all my morph and mana myr into freebies. Good combo with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as a softlock.
I agree about Ruric Thar and especially about the Mimic.
I'm not convinced of possibility storm. The interaction with Teferi is sweet, but rather hard to get online. I guess even without Teferi it probably screws the other much more then us. If someone would test and recommend it, I'd try it.
Hey, so I haven't posted in a while cause I've recently gotten into some board games (Puerto Rico and Agricola), but with Dragon's Maze coming out, gotta get back into it.
Anyway, I haven't really seen anything in Maze that I really like, but I've played Animar with gatecrash cards and the two that I have really enjoyed are Domri Rade and Signal the Clans.
In my build, (which is now a lot more like yours since your most recent changes) Domri Rade was the perfect utility card even though it's not a creature. The card advantage is just ridiculous and being able to fight a creature is so key in a deck that already doesn't have the best creature removal. Obviously the ult is game over. Had many ppl scoop when they realized they couldn't do anything about Domri.
Signal the Clans is just ridiculous and I really don't know why you don't like it. It's cheap, instant and a tutor. You seem to think this is a really random tutor like gamble, but in fact, if you tutor up 2 creature tutors (fauna shaman, fierce empath, imperial recruiter if you have it) and the card you want...well, I've never had a problem getting what I wanted, let's put it that way.
In other news, I'm about to use my amazon rewards points to buy Imperial Recruiter, so I'm super excited
@gelf no problem.
I just recently built my animar deck and still acquiring some pieces for it. I'm mixing up the build of Jesters and yours for my playgroup suits as they are tend to more of a ramp peoples.
The third set of the Return to Ravnica block is upon us! Dragon’s Maze is a small set supporting all ten Ravnica guilds, so what is in there that suits Animar? Keep reading to find out:
Mechanics:
Dragon’s Maze has the full set of Mechanics from the block as well as a new spell mechanic Fuse that appears on split cards. I have previously given my thoughts on the mechanics in RTR and GTC (here and here) so I won’t repeat myself here, but I will talk about Fuse.
Fuse – Split cards allow a lot of flexibility in a single card, and Fuse further increases this flexibility by giving the option of having both effects. It is a spell mechanic, and non-creature slots are at a premium in Animar decks, so essentially having three cards in a single slot sounds like great value. Unfortunately only three of the 15 Fuse cards match Animar’s colour identity:
Armed // Dangerous – This card can enable a swift Voltron victory, by granting double strike to Animar (or another fatty) or forcing an unfavourable block (essentially making everything else unblockable) or both. Activating both effects on a single creature can also act as a removal spell under the right circumstances.
Give // Take – I really wish this had been an instant instead of a sorcery. As an instant it could have acted as card draw in response to Animar being removed, or given him a toughness boost in response to burn. Unfortunately it’s not instant, and as a sorcery I’m not sure it’s worth both effects. Give is a pretty efficient way to put the first three +1/+1 counters on Animar, but Take is unlikely to get much use (maybe to reset Fathom Mage?). Using both to draw only three cards is pretty inefficient in UG and requires a creature on board in the first place.
Turn // Burn – This card is very versatile removal (something Animar himself should probably fear appearing in some decks) able to kill a lot of troublesome creatures and interrupt many creature combos. It can kill off a lot of utility creatures and Commanders with the Burn or nullify a problem blocker or attacker with Turn. Putting both effects on the same creature gets around all sorts of protections (indestructible, persist, undying) and death triggers.
The Rest:
Moving away from Dragon’s Maze specific mechanics, what else is there that could find its way into the decklist?
UUUBLUEUUU
Aetherling – A versatile and hard to remove creature that enjoys a decent discount from Animar. As it is very hard to kill, unblockable and can hit for 8 damage without too much trouble it makes a decent finisher for a control deck, but it doesn’t lend much to a combo build and is probably too mana intensive for aggro.
Hidden Strings – A Cipher sorcery that taps or untaps up to two target permanents. As a spell it doesn’t have much synergy with Animar, however being able to untap lands means it can generate more mana than it costs to cast with karoo lands and Gaea's Cradle. Alternatively it is useful for tapping down opponents’ lands to prevent a counterspell from interfering with your combo plans. I think it is better than it first appears, but relying on the combat step to use after the initial cast is problematic.
Maze Glider – An elemental that gives Animar flying! It’s not that flashy, but in an aggro build it does grant evasion to the Commander. It gets better the more multi-coloured creatures you play and it’s cheap with Animar’s discount. Honestly though if you’re thinking of including Maze Glider I would recommend playing Wingcrafter instead.
RRRREDRRR
Maze Rusher – Gives Animar haste! Gains value based on the number of multi-coloured creatures you run, but is pretty averages compared to other haste granting creatures that could be run (Anger, Urabrask the Hidden and Maelstrom Wanderer spring to mind).
Possibility Storm – Turns every creature cast into two +1/+1 counters for Animar and blanks a lot of removal. Can also lock opponents out in combination with Teferi. Adds a lot of randomness to the game, which can be fun, but doesn’t lend itself well to creature cast loops using Cloudstone Curio. I’m really not sure what to think of this one, hopefully someone else will test it and let me know how it goes.
Pyrewild Shaman – Reusable Bloodrush creature is useful that it returns from the grave to hand, so that you can Bloodrush again or cast to put counters on Animar. Probably better in an aggro build. If you want to run this, consider Squee, Goblin Nabob as well.
Rubblebelt Maaka – A Hill Giant with Bloodrush. In an aggro/voltron Animar deck, this is versatile as either a creature when you need a counter or a cheap +3/+3 on the attack. Unlikely to make the cut, but it’s an option.
GGGGREENGGG
Maze Behemoth – Gives Animar trample! Like the other Maze creatures it’s value increases based on your multi-coloured creature count and also like the other Maze creatures there are better options out there if you’re looking for this effect.
Mutant’s Prey – Cheap instant removal as long as you have a big enough creature with a +1/+1 counter on it. In a ‘+1/+1 counters matter’ deck, this could make the cut, but if Animar is your only creature that can be targeted, then this might end up being a dead card too often. Just run Pongify/Rapid Hybridization instead.
Renegade Krasis – Another card for that ‘+1/+1 counters matter’ deck, this little Evolve mutant can quickly pump your team. Great for an aggro build.
RGUMULTICOLOURUGR
Bred for the Hunt – If you’re running enough creatures with +1/+1 counters on them and playing an aggressive game, then this enchantment could draw you a lot of cards. Alternatively you could simply play Coastal Piracy or Edric, Spymaster of Trest.
Dragonshift – This card can act as an overrun of sorts, given the number of small utility creatures that find their way into an Animar deck, but I’m not sure it’s worth the overload cost.
Gruul War Chant – The ‘can’t be blocked except by two or more creatures’ clause on this enchantment is a lot more valuable than the +1 power while attacking. Might suit an aggro build.
Krasis Incubation – An Arrest when you need it or a way to add counters to Animar if you reach late game. Probably too mana intensive as a way of adding counters, but as creature removal it is good against other Commanders.
Plasm Capture – Mana Drain fixed. Again suits a control build which is willing to sit back with mana left open.
Progenitor Mimic – A super clone, that spits out a copy of itself every upkeep and at six converted mana cost it is searchable with Fierce Empath. My only problem with it is that more often than not I use clones as Commander removal, and for six mana that’s a bit expensive. Also once I’ve got my combo going I tend not to go through many more upkeeps, so its full potential probably won’t be reached. That said this clone has a lot of potential given the quantity of ‘enter the battlefield’ effects in your average game of Commander.
Ral Zarek – The latest planeswalker is worth a mention because he can untap a land each turn and Gaea's Cradle loves to be untapped. He can also tap an opponent’s land to disrupt counterspell mana or tap a blocker. Lightning bolt isn’t great in EDH, but it does kill quite a lot of utility Commanders. If you reach his ultimate you’ll probably win with the extra turns.
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed – Given how few non-creature spells we play in Animar decks, this guy is bound to impact our opponents more than us. At the very least he’ll usually do six damage to the person that kills him. Attacking each turn isn’t much of a problem because he has vigilance.
Savageborn Hydra – Hydras love Animar because he gives them free counters. This Hydra is pretty dangerous with double strike and the ability to gain extra counters after he is already in play.
Species Gorger – Big body for its cost and lets us reuse creatures by bouncing them during upkeep. Certainly one way to gain extra value from EtB creatures, although I think I prefer Erratic Portal.
Vorel of the Hull Clade – His ability can double the counters on Animar, although he doesn’t really affect much else in the deck. This guy is begging to be built around and would do amazing things in a ‘+1/+1 counters matter’ build, especially with Hydras.
Zhur-Taa Ancient – Mana flare on a body, I actually think this guy would make a great addition given how effective Vorinclex is in the deck already as he combos with Palinchron for infinite mana. Obviously you would need to be careful when you cast him, because doubling your opponents’ mana is not something you want to do lightly, but at the right time this could give you the reach to combo off.
x0ARTIFACTS & LANDSxx
Cluestones:Gruul Cluestone, Izzet Cluestone, Simic Cluestone – Common mana fixers, these have the advantage of sacrificing themselves later in the game to draw cards. If you’re looking for mana rocks, the original Signets are better, but personally I don’t think it’s worth running mana rocks in Animar at all.
Honourable Mentions
A couple of cards stood out at me and made me wish I could play them in Animar, but unfortunately they include W in their identity.
Beck // Call – Oh Glimpse of Nature number two! Stupid bird tokens… *grumble, grumble*
Deputy of Acquittals – A cheap creature that may bounce another creature you control and has flash. This was made for Animar, except in the wrong colours.
That concludes my review of the Animar appropriate Dragon’s Maze cards. The ones I’m most interested in are Progenitor Mimic, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and Zhur-Taa Ancient. Of course I’m keen to hear how other cards play too. How do my evaluations stack up with your experiences? Please let me know what you test and how it goes.
Finally got it all fixed and typed up. Finisher is Apocalypse hydra instead of crawler. As such I focus more on infi mana. Thinking about Gorger now instead of primadox, but I like having a pure green bouncer in case I get locked out of blue...
PS. I don't know how to make the fancy deck box with links work. Any help would be appreciated
there you go, deck tagged....
My advice is to seperate it into what they do or by card types.
Thanks Macius, I was gonna edit and fix it up when I had the chance. Does this mean I can edit the original post and your post will continue to use the deck box?
-Thanks for all the help gelf. I think it's looking pretty nice now.
-Seeing it split up like this makes me think i may need some more bounce.
-Also not totally sold on acidic slime over some other noncreature permanent guy.
-The two praetors are also there just for kicks. Though they are amazing, they can be a liability and I could replace them with a simple land fetcher and phyrexian metamorph.
-I'm also a huge sucker for riftsweeper since I have food chain.
-Also, I've been loving signal the clans for instant speed, but may eventually go back to sylvan tutor if my infatuation fades
Ya, I might actually swap Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger back in for Ondu giant since it doesn't combo with Aluren. I'm really torn about food chain only because I've seen someone use it like crazy, even without misthollow griffin, with glimpse of nature type effects to get the engine rolling. It's really nice that it gives x+1 mana of ANY COLOR! so huge. I like words of wind as a bounce effect more than erratic portal since you can use it more than once in a turn.
So after I received by card order it took a while to find the time to make changes and then at the Dragon's Maze prerelease I got my hands on a Zhur-Taa Ancient (or 3). As the deck becomes more tuned it gets harder and harder to make cuts necessary to add new cards.
Aether Adept came out for Dream Stalker. I lose a bit of versatility (being able to bounce an opponents creature) but decrease the cost by one U, which makes a difference once Cloudstone Curio is online.
Anger was removed for Maelstrom Wanderer, which requires less set up for the haste effect and has the benefit of double cascade. Sure it's slower than Anger, but I rarely require the haste earlier than turn six or seven, at which time it is quite easy to cast the Maelstrom Wanderer instead.
Garruk's Horde had a lot of potential, but in reality it never made thr difference I wanted it to. I never felt the need to tutor it up for its effect and so it was simply an awkward seven drop a lot of the time.
Terastodon came out for Sylvan Primordial. In a multiplayer game they serve much the same function, but I gain forests instead of my opponents gaining Elephants.
Finally Tidespout Tyrant was a very difficult cut; in the absence of Cloudstone Curio it fills a similar role, but I wanted to maintain my curve and with Maelstrom Wanderer slotting into the 8 cmc range something had to go.
As I've added more card draw in the form of Fathom Mage and Prime Speaker Zegana, Greater Good seemed the right thing to cut, although I am completely without a sacrifice mechanic in deck at this point.
I'm not sure cutting Gamble was the right decision, although often I used it to find creatures, so perhaps a creature tutor would be better. With the extra card draw I think I can get away with losing a tutor at this point, but I might have to add another tutor soon.
Lightning Greaves came out for Whim of Volrath. While the Whim is far more specific to protecting Animar (and unfortunately only Animar in this deck) it is much better at blanking spot removal compared to the greaves. We'll see how the testing goes, I also picked up a Glamerdye for testing and in the end I can always return to the Lightning Greaves if these options don't work out.
Earthcraft and Zhur-Taa Ancient both increase available mana. The Ancient is a bit of a risk as it also doubles everyones mana, however with Palinchron it can generate infinite mana without the help of Animar, and in that sense it acts as Vorinclex number two. It will require careful timing to play, but I think it might be worth it.
interesting changes.
-I'm not convinced on Fathom Mage, but I need to find some room for Zegana
-I'm scared about using cascade effects, which is why I don't run Maelstrom Wanderer or Bloodbraid Elf.
-I also don't have much graveyard recursion, like deadwood treefolk and artisan of kozilek.
-I've also steered away from protection for Animar, since i've been trying to make a build that doesn't rely so heavily on him. This also accounts for the reduction in GY recursion I think.
-Lastly I also notice that I don't run any delver type cards. I think I make up for this by adding more tutors and card draw.
Other than that, our builds seem to be getting closer and closer to each other as you make changes.
Now that you have earthcraft, make sure you use basic tutors to take advantage. You really don't need many basics to take crazy advantage of earthcraft, but you definitely need at least one (usually an island to go infi with your bouncers), ideally one of each type, on the playing field.
Edit: Decided I need to make room for Deadwood Treefolk. It's just too good not to include with the bounce effects and the clones I will be running. I will prolly have to take out either greater good or squee, goblin nabob since they both serve similar functions.
Hello,
Sorry if this isnt the correct place for this, but my friend made an Animar deck (combo) and i was wondering what type of strategies slow you guys down, what are the kill on sight cards, and the must counter cards that you guys typically play?
I havent seen the deck played yet (my play group is all new to EDH), but my friend has and he said its annoying with lots of bouncing things back to his hand and making a large Animar.
Hello,
Sorry if this isnt the correct place for this, but my friend made an Animar deck (combo) and i was wondering what type of strategies slow you guys down, what are the kill on sight cards, and the must counter cards that you guys typically play?
I havent seen the deck played yet (my play group is all new to EDH), but my friend has and he said its annoying with lots of bouncing things back to his hand and making a large Animar.
I'd say the biggest things that I've seen drag my Animar down (or outright shutdown) are the following effects:
-wipes
-Humility and other effects that mess with ETB triggers and Animar's ability (Torpor Orb as mentioned below).
-(used to be) general hate
gelf, while I appreciate your love of glamerdye effects, I think the most effective protection for animar is darksteel plate. Wipes are the most threatening to animar, after all.
Edit: I'm updating the front page, but I've just started to bump into the 75000 character limit, so this will take longer than I anticipated (I'll do it tomorrow...)
@Roscoe - Words of Wind would probably be a good replacement for Erratic Portal, provided the card draw was set up. I'll have to put it on my testing list.
Testing with Fathom Mage has been good. She's not as reliable as Soul of the Harvest or Primordial Sage, but she easily draws between 6 and 10 cards once a creature chain or bounce loop gets going, at which point she can be reset with bounce to start again.
There isn't much I'm upset about cascading into, and Maelstrom Wanderer has been great value during initial testing.
I'm testing the Glamerdye effects because they act in response to most removal. Perhaps Darksteel Plate will have a place, but I'm entering a new meta game and so far sweepers haven't been as prolific.
Deadwood Treefolk is amazing value, especially with Birthing Pod. He's not great in the early game, but he gains a lot of value once a few creatures have hit the yard.
@ashep01 - If you keep Animar off the field it takes a lot longer for the combos to become a threat. Keep in mind that the deck can still combo without him though, especially once we're at the 12 to 14 mana mark and can get out Palinchron and Vorinclex.
Torpor Orb and Humility shut down most of the decks engines, leaving mostly small ineffectual creatures that do nothing. Small burn in the form of Lightning Bolt, Cunning Sparkmage and similar effects are also pretty effective at keeping Animar off the field.
I used to use Fecundity as a way of gaining value after a wrath, but it is dependent on your meta as token decks gain a lot more value from Fecundity than I do.
Regarding winning 5 or 6 player games, Psychosis Crawler and mass card draw does it too :).
Play more creatures and run counterspells. There are three creatures with ETB counter spells as far as I am aware, run all three. Then just play more creatures.
How do you win without Kiki-jiki? Any number of other infinite or nigh-infinite combos. No deck is going to be consistent in 5-6 player games, EDH is best at 4 players.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
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I have been making some changes, so may have forgotten to add something new while taking out something else. I'll have to have a careful check of the deck and decklists to see what is missing. Thanks for bringing this to my attention
All would be good in a '+1/+1 counters matter' build. In my current build I don't run enough creatures that end up with counters. Give // Take would have been an awesome instant, but as a sorcery I think it's pretty average. Vorel of the Hull Clade really needs to be built around for effect, I'm not sure he can slot into any old Animar deck. Bred for the Hunt and Renegade Krasis require most creatures to be using +1/+1 counters before I would consider adding them. Coastal Piracy or even Edric, Spymaster of Trest is much less restrictive if you want to be drawing cards via your combat step.
Ruric Thar, the Unbowed - Powerful creature that doesn't affect Animar much at all since we run a high count of creatures. BFF with Nullstone Gargoyle and Heartwood Storyteller
Progenitor Mimic - An extra clone that clones itself is always good. Great cast cost at 6cc and having G in its cast cost makes it a very worthwhile inclusion. Green Sun Zenith, Natural Order, and most importantly fierce empath can tutor for it.
Possibility Storm - Chaotic triggers affect every player, makes it hard for combo players to start off their combos. Turns all my morph and mana myr into freebies. Good combo with Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir as a softlock.
WUBRG Reaper King - Elf Tribal WUBRG | Tribal Fun
WRG Gishath, Sun's Avatar - Dinosaur Tribal WRG | Rawr!!!
WUG Derevi, Empyrial Tactician - Enchantress Tactics WUG | Enchantments Focused
GBG The Gitrog Monster - Land Shenanigans GBG | Lands/Mill Focused
WBW Kambal, Consul of Life Allocation Matters WBW | Life Gain/Loss focused
UBR Kess, Dissident Mage of the Lotus UBR | Spellslinger
BGB Hapatra, Vizier of Poisons - Counters & Tokens BGB | -1/-1 counters focused
I agree about Ruric Thar and especially about the Mimic.
I'm not convinced of possibility storm. The interaction with Teferi is sweet, but rather hard to get online. I guess even without Teferi it probably screws the other much more then us. If someone would test and recommend it, I'd try it.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Anyway, I haven't really seen anything in Maze that I really like, but I've played Animar with gatecrash cards and the two that I have really enjoyed are Domri Rade and Signal the Clans.
In my build, (which is now a lot more like yours since your most recent changes) Domri Rade was the perfect utility card even though it's not a creature. The card advantage is just ridiculous and being able to fight a creature is so key in a deck that already doesn't have the best creature removal. Obviously the ult is game over. Had many ppl scoop when they realized they couldn't do anything about Domri.
Signal the Clans is just ridiculous and I really don't know why you don't like it. It's cheap, instant and a tutor. You seem to think this is a really random tutor like gamble, but in fact, if you tutor up 2 creature tutors (fauna shaman, fierce empath, imperial recruiter if you have it) and the card you want...well, I've never had a problem getting what I wanted, let's put it that way.
In other news, I'm about to use my amazon rewards points to buy Imperial Recruiter, so I'm super excited
I just recently built my animar deck and still acquiring some pieces for it. I'm mixing up the build of Jesters and yours for my playgroup suits as they are tend to more of a ramp peoples.
The third set of the Return to Ravnica block is upon us! Dragon’s Maze is a small set supporting all ten Ravnica guilds, so what is in there that suits Animar? Keep reading to find out:
Mechanics:
Dragon’s Maze has the full set of Mechanics from the block as well as a new spell mechanic Fuse that appears on split cards. I have previously given my thoughts on the mechanics in RTR and GTC (here and here) so I won’t repeat myself here, but I will talk about Fuse.
Fuse – Split cards allow a lot of flexibility in a single card, and Fuse further increases this flexibility by giving the option of having both effects. It is a spell mechanic, and non-creature slots are at a premium in Animar decks, so essentially having three cards in a single slot sounds like great value. Unfortunately only three of the 15 Fuse cards match Animar’s colour identity:
The Rest:
Moving away from Dragon’s Maze specific mechanics, what else is there that could find its way into the decklist?
UUU BLUE UUU
RRR RED RRR
GGG GREEN GGG
RGU MULTICOLOUR UGR
x0 ARTIFACTS & LANDS xx
Honourable Mentions
A couple of cards stood out at me and made me wish I could play them in Animar, but unfortunately they include W in their identity.
That concludes my review of the Animar appropriate Dragon’s Maze cards. The ones I’m most interested in are Progenitor Mimic, Ruric Thar, the Unbowed and Zhur-Taa Ancient. Of course I’m keen to hear how other cards play too. How do my evaluations stack up with your experiences? Please let me know what you test and how it goes.
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 Command Tower
1 Ancient Ziggurat
1 Rupture Spire
1 Transguild Promenade
1 Reflecting Pool
1 Taiga
1 Tropical Island
1 Volcanic Island
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Steam Vents
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Gruul Turf
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Flooded Grove
4 Forest
3 Island
2 Mountain
1 Zoetic Cavern
1 Llanowar Reborn
1 Rogue's Passage
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Tolaria West
1 Halimar Depths
1 Winding Canyons
1 Alchemist's Refuge
Card draw
1 Primordial Sage
1 Soul of the Harvest
1 Glimpse of Nature
1 Mulldrifter
1 Fathom Seer
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth
1 Earthcraft
1 Wood Elves
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Cloud of Faeries
1 Peregrine Drake
1 Palinchron
1 Joiner Adept
1 Realmwright
1 Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1 Azusa, Lost but Seeking
Tutors
1 Imperial Recruiter
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Fierce Empath
1 Worldly Tutor
1 Signal the Clans
1 Brutalizer Exarch
1 Primal Command
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Long-Term Plans
1 Noble Benefactor
1 Crop Rotation
Control
1 Glen Elendra Archmage
1 Mystic Snake
1 Draining Whelk
1 Voidmage Apprentice
1 Voidmage Husher
1 Venser, Shaper Savant
1 Willbender
Bounce
1 Cloudstone Curio
1 Equilibrium
1 Words of Wind
1 Tidespout Tyrant
1 Roaring Primadox
1 Dream Stalker
1 Shrieking Drake
1 Man-o'-War
1 Acidic Slime
1 Nantuko Vigilante
1 Beast Within
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1 Duplicant
1 Steel Hellkite
These Guys
1 Domri Rade
1 Eternal Witness
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Phantasmal Image
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Apocalypse Hydra
Combos
1 Aluren
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Vesuvan Shapeshifter
1 Brine Elemental
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
there you go, deck tagged....
My advice is to seperate it into what they do or by card types.
540 Peasant cube- Gold EditionSomething SpicyFor your info to create a deck box, use the tags:
[*DECK]Heading
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
1 Cloudstone Curio[/DECK]
Remove the * from [*DECK] and it appears like so:
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
1 Cloudstone Curio
Like so:
[*DECK]Heading
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
1 Cloudstone Curio[/DECK]
Remove the * from [*DECK] and it appears like so:
1 Animar, Soul of Elements
-Seeing it split up like this makes me think i may need some more bounce.
-Also not totally sold on acidic slime over some other noncreature permanent guy.
-The two praetors are also there just for kicks. Though they are amazing, they can be a liability and I could replace them with a simple land fetcher and phyrexian metamorph.
-I'm also a huge sucker for riftsweeper since I have food chain.
-Also, I've been loving signal the clans for instant speed, but may eventually go back to sylvan tutor if my infatuation fades
Any suggestions welcome
Edit: Ok, if I had to had to, I'd probably go
-Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
-Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
-Misthollow Griffin
-Food Chain
+Sylvan Ranger
+Ondu Giant
+Phyrexian Metamorph
+Words of Wind
Looks reasonable. Food Chain isn't that great without Misthollow Griffin.
Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger is pretty awesome though, he combo's with Palinchron for infinite mana even when Animar isn't on the field.
Let me know how Words of Wind goes, because it looks like Equilibrium number two, with the added benefit of resetting all opponents.
Out:
- Mountain
- Evolving Wilds
- Terramorphic Expanse
- Aether Adept
- Anger
- Garruk's Horde
- Terastodon
- Tidespout Tyrant
- Gamble
- Lightning Greaves
- Greater Good
In:
+ Island
+ Misty Rainforest
+ Scalding Tarn
+ Dream Stalker
+ Fathom Mage
+ Zhur-Taa Ancient
+ Prime Speaker Zegana
+ Sylvan Primordial
+ Maelstrom Wanderer
+ Whim of Volrath
+ Earthcraft
So after I received by card order it took a while to find the time to make changes and then at the Dragon's Maze prerelease I got my hands on a Zhur-Taa Ancient (or 3). As the deck becomes more tuned it gets harder and harder to make cuts necessary to add new cards.
Evolving Wilds and Terramorphic Expanse came out to make room for Misty Rainforest and Scalding Tarn, which hopefully will speed up the decks early game.
The Mountain was cut because I run Shock lands and have cut Anger, I chose to put an Island in its place based on the fact that both Gaea's Cradle and Mosswort Bridge generate green mana.
Aether Adept came out for Dream Stalker. I lose a bit of versatility (being able to bounce an opponents creature) but decrease the cost by one U, which makes a difference once Cloudstone Curio is online.
Anger was removed for Maelstrom Wanderer, which requires less set up for the haste effect and has the benefit of double cascade. Sure it's slower than Anger, but I rarely require the haste earlier than turn six or seven, at which time it is quite easy to cast the Maelstrom Wanderer instead.
Garruk's Horde had a lot of potential, but in reality it never made thr difference I wanted it to. I never felt the need to tutor it up for its effect and so it was simply an awkward seven drop a lot of the time.
Terastodon came out for Sylvan Primordial. In a multiplayer game they serve much the same function, but I gain forests instead of my opponents gaining Elephants.
Finally Tidespout Tyrant was a very difficult cut; in the absence of Cloudstone Curio it fills a similar role, but I wanted to maintain my curve and with Maelstrom Wanderer slotting into the 8 cmc range something had to go.
As I've added more card draw in the form of Fathom Mage and Prime Speaker Zegana, Greater Good seemed the right thing to cut, although I am completely without a sacrifice mechanic in deck at this point.
I'm not sure cutting Gamble was the right decision, although often I used it to find creatures, so perhaps a creature tutor would be better. With the extra card draw I think I can get away with losing a tutor at this point, but I might have to add another tutor soon.
Lightning Greaves came out for Whim of Volrath. While the Whim is far more specific to protecting Animar (and unfortunately only Animar in this deck) it is much better at blanking spot removal compared to the greaves. We'll see how the testing goes, I also picked up a Glamerdye for testing and in the end I can always return to the Lightning Greaves if these options don't work out.
Earthcraft and Zhur-Taa Ancient both increase available mana. The Ancient is a bit of a risk as it also doubles everyones mana, however with Palinchron it can generate infinite mana without the help of Animar, and in that sense it acts as Vorinclex number two. It will require careful timing to play, but I think it might be worth it.
-I'm not convinced on Fathom Mage, but I need to find some room for Zegana
-I'm scared about using cascade effects, which is why I don't run Maelstrom Wanderer or Bloodbraid Elf.
-I also don't have much graveyard recursion, like deadwood treefolk and artisan of kozilek.
-I've also steered away from protection for Animar, since i've been trying to make a build that doesn't rely so heavily on him. This also accounts for the reduction in GY recursion I think.
-Lastly I also notice that I don't run any delver type cards. I think I make up for this by adding more tutors and card draw.
Other than that, our builds seem to be getting closer and closer to each other as you make changes.
Now that you have earthcraft, make sure you use basic tutors to take advantage. You really don't need many basics to take crazy advantage of earthcraft, but you definitely need at least one (usually an island to go infi with your bouncers), ideally one of each type, on the playing field.
Edit: Decided I need to make room for Deadwood Treefolk. It's just too good not to include with the bounce effects and the clones I will be running. I will prolly have to take out either greater good or squee, goblin nabob since they both serve similar functions.
Sorry if this isnt the correct place for this, but my friend made an Animar deck (combo) and i was wondering what type of strategies slow you guys down, what are the kill on sight cards, and the must counter cards that you guys typically play?
I havent seen the deck played yet (my play group is all new to EDH), but my friend has and he said its annoying with lots of bouncing things back to his hand and making a large Animar.
I'd say the biggest things that I've seen drag my Animar down (or outright shutdown) are the following effects:
-wipes
-Humility and other effects that mess with ETB triggers and Animar's ability (Torpor Orb as mentioned below).
-(used to be) general hate
@Roscoe - Words of Wind would probably be a good replacement for Erratic Portal, provided the card draw was set up. I'll have to put it on my testing list.
Testing with Fathom Mage has been good. She's not as reliable as Soul of the Harvest or Primordial Sage, but she easily draws between 6 and 10 cards once a creature chain or bounce loop gets going, at which point she can be reset with bounce to start again.
There isn't much I'm upset about cascading into, and Maelstrom Wanderer has been great value during initial testing.
I'm testing the Glamerdye effects because they act in response to most removal. Perhaps Darksteel Plate will have a place, but I'm entering a new meta game and so far sweepers haven't been as prolific.
Deadwood Treefolk is amazing value, especially with Birthing Pod. He's not great in the early game, but he gains a lot of value once a few creatures have hit the yard.
@ashep01 - If you keep Animar off the field it takes a lot longer for the combos to become a threat. Keep in mind that the deck can still combo without him though, especially once we're at the 12 to 14 mana mark and can get out Palinchron and Vorinclex.
Torpor Orb and Humility shut down most of the decks engines, leaving mostly small ineffectual creatures that do nothing. Small burn in the form of Lightning Bolt, Cunning Sparkmage and similar effects are also pretty effective at keeping Animar off the field.