MTG Salvation

Nah, I'd figured out Iso's role accurately before WOLG did, but unlike WOLG, I didn't see the point in coming out and discussing it.

It was pretty obv after he said he wanted to be the day two lynch.

I dislike this situation.

I wonder whether we need to commit to a behavioral read on Iso, to be safe.

Testing him if we're sure he's town doesn't make sense, but if we think there's a good likellihood he's scum, I could get behind it.

I've analyzed pretty much anyone else this game, and kept coming back without anything good.

*rereads*

Nah, Iso is town.

*rereads further*

Maybe?

Screw this game and it's not being over after three scum dead in a row.

Cyan, since you're here watching the thread, who is the new dark lord you're supposed to defeat?

"Where is he?" Az shouts, shaking Morpheus by the lapels of his leather coat. "Where's the writer?"

"I don't know, I don't know! Why can't you understand this?" Morpheus shouts back, struggling to remain composed.

"You're his creation, you must know!"

"We're all his creations. This is a game, with only two possible endings. You know that."

Az snarls and drops Morpheus back into his chair. He sits down in his own and puts his head in his hand. The light of the late day stretches across this, the only real cafe in this place. "Can't be anywhere, so where..." he mumbles.

"He'll show up when it's time, right?" Cyan asks, stirring an empty cup. "To end this. And that - better to be done than to be locked up here, right? Some sort of an ending..."

Az nods weakly. "Right. So..." He looks over at WellofLostGnomes, who's building a sandbag dam out of sugar packets and preparing to test it out against a big monsoon wave of spilled water. A few nod in his direction, too.

"Oh, no, here comes Hurricane Wolgy!" WellofLostGnomes laughs, oblivious to Az walking up behind him. From nowhere, as if summoned by his thoughts, a small stick of dynamite, lit, appears in Az's hand. In one fluid motion, he grabs WellofLostGnomes by the throat and shoves the dynamite into his mouth.

"Auruchgh! Augzhh!" WellofLostGnomes cries, running around, trying to get a grip on the pipe in his throat, as the rest of you stand back.

"Kick him out! Kick him out!" Iso shouts. "Save the cafe!"

Archmage_Eternal runs up, grabs the flailing WellofLostGnomes, and throws him at Morpheus, knocking both of them over and out the door. It has sluggishly closed halfway when you see a burst of flames outside. A few windows shatter.

After a long moment, Morpheus comes back in. His clothes have burned away, down to a pair of underpants with the words THE ONE on the back. "You owe me a new leather coat, Az," he says.

Az smirks and looks away. "Put it on my tab, Morphy."

[AUDIENCE LAUGH, APPLAUSE]

MTGS Mafia Redux 2 will be right back after this word from our sponsers!

WellofLostGnomes, Cyan - Town Cop, has been lynched.

It is now Night 4. Night will end as soon as I get everyone's actions.

Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock. Tick. Tock.

"Hey, guys, check out this sweet clock I f-" Archmage Eternal says with pride as he slowly walks into the cafe, dragging an ancient towering grandfather clock behind him.

Morpheus looks up from his newspaper. "Hey, that's my clock!"

"Finder's keeper's, sucker!" Archmage says, and drags it into the corner.

Iso cautiously pokes his head in the door, then yelps and leaps into the air, as Cyan kicks past him and takes a seat at the table. "What the hell?!" Iso shouts.

"Hey, this is a keep-walkin'-or-get-kicked-in-the-ass kind'a town," Cyan drawls, rubbing his head.

Everyone looks at the door a long moment. Morpheus says, "Okay, I think that's every-"

"Wait wait wait wait wait!" ZeDorkSlipeur shouts, running in. The other four look at him, expectantly. He clears his throat. "Where's the bathroom? That swamp-coffee goes right through ya."

They stare at him wordlessly. Seconds go by. The grandfather clock ticks. ZeDorkSlipeur presses his thighs together and does that little piss-dance.

The final battle has begun.

Azrael, Mya, Azzyrian Tracker - Town Name Cop, has been killed.

It is now Day 5. Four alive means three to lynch.

Deadline is set for May 26th at 5pm MST.

AE, full claim now.

ZDS, Cyan: Your actions last Night?

Also, since we don't know AE's full role, no votes for now, please.

Iso what do you mean? I've claimed. Now I'm vanilla. My vote is now normal. I never had night actions, just my vote situation. Let me know when we're ready to lynch Cyan.

AE's role doesn't matter. My last ability was a 1-shot Watch. I watched Az last night. He was targetted by AE. Vote AE

OMG. This is awesome. Your awesome Cyan.

Here we go guys. Me or Cyan. I now know he's scum. Time for you to figure this out.

Listen to Az. He had me as town, decided Cyan was scum.

Cyan hasn't changed his play like I said. It's changed here because he's scum.

Go back and look if I don't post it soon, but this post is just like the one when he wanted to end an earlier day. DYH wanted to claim before the day ended but Cyan voted saying DYH's claim doesn't matter. I even asked him why the rush.

He got rid of Az because Az was essentially keeping me alive. He figured you two would gladly vote me as you have in the past.

Quote from Cyan

Axelrod's claim doesn't matter.

I'm a JOAT. N1 I redirected ZDS to AE. Last night I investigated Axelrod. He is scum. Yesterday, he might as well have outright posted, "I AM A GODFATHER PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME." I figured that investigating him would either A)out ZDS as lying(there is no way that a town RB that can block passive abilities targets anyone other than Axelrod after yesterday) if I got a town result on him with an investigation or B)I would get a scum result on him. Either way, in my estimation, it would give us a scum.

Vote Axelrod

Quote from Cyan

I don't see any reason for Ged to claim anything today. Caught scum is caught scum. The game is likely over anyway.

Here you go.

Cyan is all about convenience. Axel was dead man walking. Now we know Why he Redirected ZDS. To give them time. He got you guys to lynch WoLG, Which should be his undoing.

Originally Posted by Azrael
It just occurred to me that we're locked into a hard WOLG vs. Cyan dichotomy, because Cyan was also a one-shot cop.

I highly doubt we had two limited cops in this setup. It's too much.

Forget AE. It's definitely one of these two.

Originally Posted by Azrael
Alright, Cyan. I can envision interpreting the first post through the opposite alignment, and I'm seeing some of the inconsistencies you've been pointing out, a post that looked like a bus from Zionite, and a general absence of strong town tells. Plus, he gets really touchy whenever he's poked at, which probably isn't as in-line with a town cop mentality as I was thinking. Town cops tend to react more in a quiet, "you don't want to screw with me" sort of way, while WOLG has gone on high alert several times, pretty fast.

The only real evidence that was keeping him on my town ledger was his first post, and his post where he said Iso should "feel bad" for having a scum read on him. But both of those are ambiguous evidence, not clear-cut favorable.

Cyan, by contrast, has had much more natural sounding thought processes and cases. WoLG's posts often sound a lot more like attack jobs.

Vote: WoLG.

If we're wrong, kill Cyan tomorrow, based on both having claimed limited cop roles.

Vote Cyan

ZDS, your thoughts, if you please.

AE, why did you breadcrumb having another unlockable ability?

Quote from Iso

ZDS, your thoughts, if you please.

AE, why did you breadcrumb having another unlockable ability?

Where?

On my phone. I'll try to find the post(s) later.

I'll be asleep

Not sure how any of that matters. I saw you target Az last night. We mass-claimed and you didn't claim any ability that could target someone. Logical conclusion is that you killed Az. That makes you scum, and accordingly, I'm voting you.

Cyan hasn't changed his play like I said. It's changed here because he's scum.

My play was different in Cyberspace too. I was town there. This has been pointed out by more than one person, but you just want to ignore it. I just don't feel the same passion about the game anymore that I used to.

Go back and look if I don't post it soon, but this post is just like the one when he wanted to end an earlier day. DYH wanted to claim before the day ended but Cyan voted saying DYH's claim doesn't matter. I even asked him why the rush.

I don't know which scenario that you are referencing. DYH died N1, and Iso was the one that hammered him. And on accident at that. Either you meant someone other than DYH, or were referring to Survival Horror(I don't recall this situation from that game either, but we're both in it, so it's possible). Either way, you are imaging points against me in the context of this game.

He got rid of Az because Az was essentially keeping me alive. He figured you two would gladly vote me as you have in the past.

Or you got rid of Az, in an attempt to frame me(which also serves the purpose of making you look better, since Az indicated that he thought you were town). Or any number of other WIFOM arguments could be inserted here. At the end of the day, all I know is what I saw last night. You targeted Az. Iso and ZDS didn't. Az is dead. It's very cut and dry. I don't care about the details involved.

Here you go.

Cyan is all about convenience. Axel was dead man walking. Now we know Why he Redirected ZDS. To give them time. He got you guys to lynch WoLG, Which should be his undoing.

So..you're saying that I'm scum because I prevented Ged from needlessly dumping extra information into the game thread? I had already caught Axel as scum. There was no way that additional information being added to the thread was going to help the town any. And considering what Ged's role ended up being, if he had given his role away somehow, he would have died that night and we would have one less townie right now.

Also, the fact that you are implying that I am lying(though you interestingly have yet to say this directly), but didn't manage to vote me until your third post(and in what was clearly an afterthought) is a huge point against you here.

And what does redirecting ZDS have to do with anything here? Man you're flailing.

How would Ged claiming earlier have resulted in an additional townie death?

Cyan - What is your role flavor?

Quote from Cyan

Not sure how any of that matters. I saw you target Az last night. We mass-claimed and you didn't claim any ability that could target someone. Logical conclusion is that you killed Az. That makes you scum, and accordingly, I'm voting you.

So smug and full of lies.

My play was different in Cyberspace too. I was town there. This has been pointed out by more than one person, but you just want to ignore it. I just don't feel the same passion about the game anymore that I used to.

Iso can you say for certain that Cyans play here is very similar to there? Did he hold his vote (which he hasn't done of late) and have his play limited?
It's night and day from Checks and Balances where Cyan was town.

I don't know which scenario that you are referencing. DYH died N1, and Iso was the one that hammered him. And on accident at that. Either you meant someone other than DYH, or were referring to Survival Horror(I don't recall this situation from that game either, but we're both in it, so it's possible). Either way, you are imaging points against me in the context of this game.

Bla bla bla. I just showed them.

Or you got rid of Az, in an attempt to frame me(which also serves the purpose of making you look better, since Az indicated that he thought you were town). Or any number of other WIFOM arguments could be inserted here. At the end of the day, all I know is what I saw last night. You targeted Az. Iso and ZDS didn't. Az is dead. It's very cut and dry. I don't care about the details involved.

Lol, you don't care about much in this game but getting to the nights.

OH FOR THE LOVE OF EVERYTHING MAFIA, why on Earth would I kill the one keeping me alive? @Iso & ZDS. Do you agree that I'd be dead if not for AZ?

So..you're saying that I'm scum because I prevented Ged from needlessly dumping extra information into the game thread? I had already caught Axel as scum. There was no way that additional information being added to the thread was going to help the town any. And considering what Ged's role ended up being, if he had given his role away somehow, he would have died that night and we would have one less townie right now.

lol you tried to prevent Ged.

That was your only move regarding Axel because he was dead. There was no reason for you to claim you copped him. But once Az unvoted and Ged wanted to claim you tried to stop that.

Um pay attention scum. Ged did claim but ZDS stopped the kill.

Also, the fact that you are implying that I am lying(though you interestingly have yet to say this directly), but didn't manage to vote me until your third post(and in what was clearly an afterthought) is a huge point against you here.

haha I said up yop your lying.

OMG I didn't vote. I'm scum. Habit as I haven't been voting much. Talk about flailing, your trying everything. This is fun.

And what does redirecting ZDS have to do with anything here? Man you're flailing.

You wanted to control the block.

ZDS stick to your guns.

Whoever my new target was is probably town.

Also look what Cyan said to that.

What a load of crap and/or WIFOM this post is. The only accurate part is the part about WOLG and Froph. The rest of it is nonsense. Zionite's behavior regarding you and AE is more likely to be a terrible attempt at bussing on his part than it is anything else. For reference, please see his play in Cyberspace Mafia Day 1.

Also, intimating that the person that redirected you must be scum, based on nothing, is also highly questionable. You were one accidental pardon away from getting lynched yesterday. Plenty of people were suspicious of you, making you an ideal target for a redirect, especially given that you claimed RB.

Saying WoLG is town then got him lynched later on.

Saying me and ZDS are scum.

Looking back you can clearly see the scum intent in his posts.

I don't remember my opinion on you yesterDay, AE.

AE, do me a favor, remind me of why you thought Zionite was town early Day 1.

I'm really leaning AE as the last scum here, given that the entirety of his Day 1 play consisted of stepping into rakes, deflecting from Zionite onto Ged, and smearing me.

Still reviewing his posts to see if I can find that post(s) I was talking about.

Quote from DYH

The re-read hasn't been entirely fruitless, though. I'm feeling better about ZDS and WOLG; worse about AE and Zionite. Still content with my vote on Cyan.

DYH was the Night 1 kill.

Hmm.

Maybe I should start reading his posts.

I can probably do full wagon analyses another day.

But we've got plenty of time, so no rush, eh?

Oh Cyan already claimed flavor.

AE, role flavor?

Reviewed AE's posts and couldn't find what I was looking for. Maybe I was thinking of his Roleblock help comment - and maybe I just don't remember the context of it.

But after reading AE, his behavior seems atrocious all game.

But yeah, AE, flavor claim, please. Looking forward to your input, ZDS - and I agree with your analysis of Cyan's Night 1 action, for the record.

Ged's role didn't give him 2 lives, from the way he explained it. It just let him eat up the first 'BG death'. If he'd claimed before Axel had been lynched, the scum would clearly have NKed him.

Granted, I could(and would) have Watched him, but I imagine that Axelrod was submitting the scum NKs. He was clearly the Godfather, and they generally don't have anything else to do. So the end result of that would have been the same(me catching Axelrod as scum) for that day, and if I'd investigated WOLG the next night and gotten a town result, there is no guarantee that people would have believed me. In my estimation, at best, we'd be right where we are now, except I'd be claiming a scum investigation result on AE instead of having Watched him. At worst, we would be down to 3, which would likely be Az, AE, Iso. In my book, that translates a scum AE win(Az was clearly waffling about you yesterday, Iso).

Yeah, I noticed that and wasn't too thrilled with where that had potential to go. I can actually say I'm probably glad Az died last Night.

Cyan, if you were Vanilla, what would your case on AE be?

I feel like I already made most of that case on Day 2(I think it was Day 2?). He hasn't posted much content since then.For that matter, AE has just done nothing the entire game. And what little he has contributed has all been awful. I did notice while going back through the thread earlier looking at DYH's posts that AE was not on the Zionite wagon. I don't think I noticed that when I made the case on him before..but it certainly lends weight to my theory that AE was trying to shield Zionite.

If it's really necessary, I can go back and update my case on AE from the point where I left off before. But frankly, it shouldn't be necessary.

I don't really think it is, but it might help us come to the correct lynch sooner rather than later if you do.

I realize after looking at it that my last PBPA actually stopped on Day 1, before Zionite ever got lynched. During this PBPA, I said that A)AE looked like he was trying to shield Zionite and B)that Zionite was probably just making an awful attempt at bussing him. I feel so vindicated right now.

I'm hesitant on Zionite. Whats the case on him? Did it stem on his joining the ZDS wagon?

AE is still clearly trying to avoid voting Zionite at this point. I can't really see why, except that he just didn't want to bus his buddy(especially given that I had already pointed out that it looked like Zionite was trying to bus him, so AE wouldn't get much town credit for even being involved in the wagon).

Going by day 1 it makes sense that they are town. ZDS was redirected to me. Proly thinking if I was scum ZDS would block me making a kill or something. But ironically it actually helped me. Lets see.

I should honestly be able to stop this right here. In this post, AE acknowledges that other people probably think he is scum, AND he states that the person that Redirected ZDS to RB him 'makes sense as town'. That person was clearly me.

I'm not seeing it either. Seems to tall a task to be legit. Lets see if he has anything more to say.

unvote

Enforces the Void wagon, but doesn't actually vote him. This could have town motivations(general caution), but it could also just be that he doesn't want to be on a wagon that he knows is going to result in a non-mafia death. Overall I guess the post is a null tell, but it rubs me the wrong way.

In post 787, AE votes Void. Void had already confessed to being neutral at this point, so the vote is kind of a non-factor. But the timing of it comes right on the heels of Axel saying that he would like to lynch Void, and Axel votes Void IMMEDIATELY after AE does. This interaction makes AE look awful when you look at it in perspective.

During Day 3, AE doesn't say much in the way of being against Axelrod. I don't really hold this against him, because the day was straightforward. He delays on hammering Axel to give Ged time to claim. This behavior doesn't sit well with me. AE hasn't expressed enough suspicion toward Ged that he should be trying to extract a claim from him. He appears to be purely fishing here(around post 866). I can't say that trying to extract Ged's claim is inherently scummy, because AE was really just barning Azrael here. But the manner in which he went about it comes across very poorly.

As an aside, I feel like this analysis has been more of a 'here are reasons why AE is scum' than an actual objective assessment. I can't be objective here, because I know that he IS scum. I know that not every post a scum makes is going to look like a scum post, but still, this feels really silly. Anyway, continuing on.

During Day 4, AE really didn't post much. He provided his claim, provided some flavor from being RBed(I am still trying to make sense of that post, which was post 914). It's worth noting that he claimed a very obscure and strange role and somehow has never been able to verify it.

In posts 984/989, he makes some horrible flavor based attack on me that I STILL can't make any sense of. He appears to be trying to cast doubt on me based on Rumplestiltskin being in the game. My role PM flavor is fairly vague, but the inherent flavor just refers to me wanting to get rid of the dark lord and his minions. Trying to use this as a point against me is absurd. Xyre was not going to tell me, via my role PM, that there was a neutral killer in addition to the scum team.

In post 1030(early today), AE clarifies his claimed role from yesterday and indicates that he's ready to lynch me. Of course, he makes no effort to actually try to get me lynched. Just 'let me know when to vote'. This is absurdly scummy.

And we're caught up. AE is scum, plain as day. Even if I didn't catch him red-handed, I would be as convinced as could be that he is scum.

I saw "this post" and "that post" as AE playing terribly as scum and not expecting Zionite to get lynched...especially given the amount of time he spent deflecting from Zionite onto Ged.

There's always the rake minefield.

As far as "Zionite not getting lynched", well, you were going to be the lynch on Day 1 up until Seppel saved you, so it looked like AE was content to put some distance between Zionite by slinging a bit of mud without actually committing to a Zionite vote. That's what I meant.

Az seemed like the obvious NK to me.

I thought that Cyan had legitimate reasons for pushing you (as I did) on Day 1.

Also, I don't think it's likely that Cyan would create a dichotomy between himself and AE if he thought he could spin Az's doubt towards me at the end into an Iso lynch - I think that's another point in his favor, even though AE obviously has less town points overall than I do.

Quote from Iso

I thought that Cyan had legitimate reasons for pushing you (as I did) on Day 1.

Meaning I don't entirely fault him for ignoring either of them.

I'll do some wagon analysis when I get a chance.

Not that it'll do much good, given AE's conveniently claimed ability disallows for seeing what he would have committed to.

In the meantime, is there anything I can do to convince you that AE is the last scum over Cyan? I know you dislike PBPAs, and Cyan and AE are at odds with each other. Hell, I may do a full-game analysis if I have enough time.

What are your thoughts?

Well yeah. And I've considered the sides and I think AE is the last scum.

Quote from ZeDorkSlipeur

[FONT=georgia]Didn't have time to submit an action .


You have a one-shot cop AND a one-shot watch?
Moreover, why did you watch Azrael in the first place?
If Archmage is scum, killing Azrael is detrimental to him, since Azrael was going to him on you toDay. On the other hand, killing me would have been greatly helpful to scum-Archmage, since I was defending you. (Killing Iso would have been random and meaningless)
Considering all of this, and since by PoE you had to know Archmage is scum, why did you watch the one player he had every reason in the world to not kill?

I don't know, but see above.

---

I thought about it last night, and determined that Az was the only person that AE could kill. Yes, he would be killing his #1 supporter, but in many ways Az being confirmed as town(not that there was any real doubt, but still) would strengthen that support anyway. He couldn't kill you because it would have been ridiculously obvious that it was him. He wouldn't even be able to spin a WIFOM situation where maybe I killed you to make him look bad, because it wouldn't make any sense. And he couldn't kill Iso because that would enable Iso's kill, giving the town an extra shot today, which would guarantee a scum win. Also, as I said, by killing Az, it paints suspicion on me and, to a lesser extent, Iso. It gives AE the most chances to win.

Archmage's play is nothing to write home about, but Cyan's role is becoming less and less believable.

I can't explain to you why Xyre gave me the abilities that he did. I can speculate, but that doesn't mean much.

This post or that post don't mesh well with a scum Archmage.

They mesh well with a scum AE that doesn't want to bus a scumbuddy in a mini. AE is very careful to not call Zionite's play scummy(and he repeatedly tells us this throughout the day).

This post is bad. "Sure I could look into Axel or Zionite, but here are crappy excuses for not doing that".

In fact Cyan spent most of Day 1 ignoring Zionite (and Axel too but that's excusable), and most of Day 2 ignoring Axel. He also spent a lot of effort pursuing me and Archmage, a reasonable amount of effort pursuing Void, and NO effort pursuing Zionite and Axel. Initially I figured he was merely tunnelling, but I'm starting to reconsider this perspective.

I did comment on Zionite, and I went along with his wagon when it became clear that I couldn't get people to vote AE. The problem I have with Zionite is that he could just as easily have flipped town. His play always looks scummy, and I generally just ignore him.

And I explained why I was hesitant re: Axelrod. Right before this game started, I had spent literally an entire game(Cyberspace) thinking that Axel was scum, only to discover that I was wrong. I didn't want to get burned on him again.

Archmage's interaction with Zionite is unimpressive but it's there, at least. If he's scum it's strange that he kept clarifying he wasn't attacking Zionite, and since Zionite's trap reminded him of a past play by town-Zionite it's easy to understand how he could be biased. On the other hand when it comes to Axelrod he too has zero meaningful interaction. Then again he didn't post much at all Day 2 & 3.

I don't think that AE has any meaningful interaction with Zionite. Zionite forced some interaction between the two of them, but AE never even looks at him as a possible scum candidate. And he never said anything one way or the other on Axelrod or Void.

In addition I find it hard to find town tells on Cyan's part that aren't related to his role. And even then, only his Night 1 action is meaningful. I suppose the PBPA on WolG was pretty good, but I'm not sure how much it's worth.

Archmage does have town tells related to his play. They are debatable, but they exist nonetheless.

Which town tells? AE has done nothing this entire game. Az declared him town during Day 1, and he has just completely rode that while contributing nothing. He tried to delay the hammer on obviously scum Axelrod, after saying nothing about Axelrod EVER prior to that, long enough to extract an extra town claim. He is thoroughly scummy.

I stand by my PBPA on WOLG. The end result was unfortunate, but the analysis was good. Even Azrael was convinced by it.

Giving me my shot would result in a scum win? Why is that, Cyan?

Sorry, I meant that it would guarantee a town win, which is obviously not what the scum would want.

To clarify my point of view, I see Archmage's early Day 1 play as consistent both with the hypothesis he didn't knew Zionite's alignment, and the hypothesis he had legitimate reasons to be unsure what to conclude from Zionite's play. Ie: "Zionite is scummy, but then again he played like that as town before" (what I imagine town-Archmage's thoughts were/would have been). It may be scum wishy-washiness, but I believe scum-Archmage would have readily taken a stronger stance. He had a great excuse to defend Zionite tooth and nail and walk away unscathed from a Zionite lynch (because Zionite already try to lynch him out of the blue as town before, so how was he supposed to know Zionite was scum this time?), yet chose not to. If he is scum it means he had a long cerebral flatulence, if he is town it means he was doing a good job of looking for scum and not jumping to conclusions.

In my estimation, AE used Zionite's 'policy lynch' on him as an excuse on him to just never get involved with the Zionite wagon. I can understand not immediately acting on this. Someone wanting to policy lynch you isn't something you want to give them any kind of credit for, even if they have only done so before as town. At the very least though, it should have caused him to be more attentive to Zionite. He was not. And he should have gotten involved with the wagon at SOME point throughout the day, regardless of ANY of this. He did not.

I also challenge your statement that he was 'doing a good job looking for scum'. I don't see any evidence of this happening EVER in this entire thread.

The key moment for me was when Iso wanted to go after Zionite when your wagon collapsed. AE defintely tried to prevent that from happening, instead wanting to put attention on Ged, despite not having any kind of actual read on Ged. Nor did he ever make an effort to develop thoughts on Ged either. He said he would do so repeatedly, but conveniently it never happened.

Ultimately, I could not disagree with you more regarding this interpretation.

As I also clarified in another latter post, I'm not fond of how the only two players you were reluctant to go after for playstyle/meta reasons were both scum. Maybe you just have poor luck, but the coincidence does not work in your favour.

These are two exact players that I had poor interactions with in Cyberspace Mafia(which literally just ended). That game was my worst town game to date. I had Zionite pegged as scum Day 1, but let him convince me otherwise later. I thought Axelrod was scum all game long, but he wasn't. I was wary of being involved with them for these reasons. This is evidenced re: Zionite as early as my first post to him, where I asked him to clarify that one vote(which was the third vote on someone). If I was going to vote him, I wanted to be sure he was scum, so that I wouldn't second guess myself on it again.

How is whatever Archmage said (or rather, did not say) about Void relevant? From the mafia's perspective, he was just a free mislynch.

The scum team was down a member at that point, and Axelrod was in very hot water. If AE committed to a bad wagon there, it would be game over for his team. So I think he would have had to play extremely cautious and try to get the wagon to occur without being really associated with it. Which is exactly what happened. Of course, once it was obvious that Void was some kind of neutral, the scum team would have more leeway.

Archmage delayed the hammer on Axelrod to give Ged time to claim. Why is this bad?

Because Axelrod was very, very obviously getting lynched. Why should anyone else dump extra information into the thread? And Ged had not exhibited any suspicious behavior, either, in my estimation. AE just went on a clear fishing expedition there.

Question: Why did you not read my conversation with Iso? (I assume you didn't read it or else you would have answered differently to some of the points I made)

Because I'm anxious. I saw your post to me, and responded to it. I know that AE is scum, and I'm disappointed that I am not able to make you see this. Especially given that the entire game is on the line, and you've already cast the wrong vote.

Sorry for the triple post, had a big revelation.

Cyan, why did you not watch Ged? Redirection comes before information, so presumably you would have caught the last scum red handed even if he had aimed for Az/WolG/whoever else Ged was protecting.

How was it more important to protect Ged?

This did not occur to me, because that is not how bodyguarding someone works from my understanding. When you bodyguard someone, the kill is not directed at you, in a technical sense. You just absorb a kill that is targeting the person you are targeting.

Even if the scum had opted to kill Ged?

Quote from Iso

AE, do me a favor, remind me of why you thought Zionite was town early Day 1.

Quote from Archmage Eternal

I don't. It's horrible town play, so what does that make him? That remains to be seen. But, the game I was referring to was Ogre. Zionite replaces in day two voting me and eventually is that days lynch. He was town. Horrible town play then, maybe now too.

Quote from Iso

Yeah, I noticed that and wasn't too thrilled with where that had potential to go. I can actually say I'm probably glad Az died last Night.

If Az lived, Cyan would be dead today. No if's, and's, or but's. Plain and simple. Cyan knew this and figured he'd get you on board and then have a good chance at getting ZDS there.

Quote from Azrael

Hey Ged, should we make you claim also?

Quote from Ged

That might actually be better for everyone, Az.

Quote from Iso

Then do it?

Quote from Ged

Axel first.

Quote from Axelrod

So, this is where I throw a general tantrum and pick up my toys and go home, right?

Quote from Archmage Eternal

Yeah, after you claim.

Quote from Ged

No need to be like that.

I think that was Axel's way of saying he wasn't gonna claim, but I could be wrong.

Quote from Archmage Eternal

So do you want to claim before I hammer?

Quote from Ged

You're not gonna let other people check in and give an opinion first?

Also maybe. Don't hammer yet.

Quote from WellOfLostGnomes

No really though guys, I'd rather give Axel time to actually respond. This wagon is going way too fast, it's been day 3 for less than 24 hours. On the off chance that there is another scum out there, I want to have more than just a few one line posts to go off of in regards to the Axel wagon.

Quote from Cyan

Axelrod's claim doesn't matter.

I'm a JOAT. N1 I redirected ZDS to AE. Last night I investigated Axelrod. He is scum. Yesterday, he might as well have outright posted, "I AM A GODFATHER PLEASE INVESTIGATE ME." I figured that investigating him would either A)out ZDS as lying(there is no way that a town RB that can block passive abilities targets anyone other than Axelrod after yesterday) if I got a town result on him with an investigation or B)I would get a scum result on him. Either way, in my estimation, it would give us a scum.

Vote Axelrod

Quote from Archmage Eternal

What about Ged's claim? You seem to be rushing.

Quote from Cyan

I don't see any reason for Ged to claim anything today. Caught scum is caught scum. The game is likely over anyway.

Quote from Cyan

Because Axelrod was very, very obviously getting lynched. Why should anyone else dump extra information into the thread? And Ged had not exhibited any suspicious behavior, either, in my estimation. AE just went on a clear fishing expedition there.

lol, I'm loving this. I was fishing? It's all there. Az mentioned Ged claiming and Ged beleived it was for the best. Cyan wanted NOTHING to do with it. Hey look, Iso must hav e been fishing too, right?

EBWODP:

I don't see anything telling(one way or the other) in AE's tone for his posts today.

@Iso: If they had opted to directly kill Ged and if I had watched him, then sure I would have seen them do it. But like..why would they do that? It is needlessly risky.

Also, AE's post just now is just what I've been talking about. If he is town, he would know that I am lying scum, and accordingly, should put actual effort into winning. Instead, he is clearly just going through the motions. There have been walls of posts today, and all he can do is repeat a WIFOM post that he's already made once. I also like the part where he responds to Iso, but doesn't actually even answer the question at hand.

@AE: So..what? Just because Ged was willing to volunteer the information doesn't mean that he should have. If he hadn't done so, the town's primary protective role would have lived another day.

As an aside, I got my timeline confused earlier today, and thought that Ged didn't claim on the day that Axel got lynched. So that was probably really confusing for everyone. But my primary point still stands. What if Ged hadn't claimed for no reason whatsoever? At that point, I had already lynched Axel. There was no benefit to Ged claiming.

Quote from Cyan

EBWODP:
Also, AE's post just now is just what I've been talking about. If he is town, he would know that I am lying scum, and accordingly, should put actual effort into winning. Instead, he is clearly just going through the motions.

I'm posting facts. You are trying your hardest, I'll give you that, at smoke screening. You couldn't let Az live or you'd die. But by following his lead (since I couldn't do it earlier) You'll still die.

There have been walls of posts today, and all he can do is repeat a WIFOM post that he's already made once. I also like the part where he responds to Iso, but doesn't actually even answer the question at hand.

Umm, stop smearing. It's not very townie. I showed where I said it. It's due to Ogre, the way he played.

AE, can you build a behavioral case on Cyan that doesn't involve pure WIFOM? TIA