Notice that it's confirmed to be a mythic, so there will be only one eight of the amount of reprinted rares, making opening a huge surplus of Bobs unlikely.
I would expect only a small decrease (maybe 10 $ at first, then the price back to current) and later on slightly slower growth in price. Another great value card for the set.
I can see the original Bob worth 45 and the new bob at 40. I wouldn't expect too much of a drop seeing as new bob at mythic status. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if the price went right back to 50 though due to the heavy pushing WotC is going for in the modern format (drive up demand to match the sudden influx of supply)
Too hard to tell what will happen to the price of Bob until the set releases and we find out what kind of quantities are available.
That being said, the set will very likely have several amazing cards and boxes will likely exceed $300 within the year. Short-term/release period, it just depends on how much will be available.
I think this will undo his last price spike so hopefully he'll go back down to like $40-$45.
I agree. A lot of the current speculation price is because people are expecting to see some of the big cards like bob in it, so rather than increasing the price, we can only hope that it justifies it.
The MM Bob has a good chance of being worth more with the new artwork and reduced rarity.
None of the modern masters reprints will be worth more than the original in the short term (6 months) due simply to the fact that people will try and sell them once the set is released.
None of the modern masters reprints will be worth more than the original in the short term (6 months) due simply to the fact that people will try and sell them once the set is released.
Yeah, no kidding. I don't get why everyone is pretending the obvious factor of "Modern demand" vs. "Standard demand" doesn't exist.
It's like everyone thinks MM is this new set with the same demand as Standard. It's not even close so this increase in supply is going to affect the price of singles significantly.
The pack-MSRP will factor in some... but not much. Very soon we are going to have a TON of sellers dumping popular Modern staples into a market with limited demand (compared to Standard). I'm not saying the bottom will fall out... just, again, a significant price/value decrease across the board especially in the short-term (~12 months).
It's an instant speed 5/5 trampler for 4. Wtf do you people want seriously? It has applications in populate/ above the curve beats decks, or in Bant control/ flash. I seriously think anyone mad at this card for any reason other than losing an attacker to instant speed wurm, should go home and make their own awesome card game and leave the rest of us alone.
We pretty much knew this would be in, and guessed it would be mythic, just like we pretty much feel Thoughtseize and V. Clique (Mythic) will be in. They are the reason why we get this set to begin with. We can't pretent to be shocked when we get the announcement.
The people believing that the old versions will skyrocket and even hold their present price hold quite a few copies themselves and are scared of them plumetting. The new influx of cards will definitely bring the prices down all across the board. The art might be uglier than the old one, but it's not a foil card, which a lot of players frown upon. Also, Bob is a card serious players will want, so art won't matter at all.
I don't think the price of the single are going to be affect much. I hope they drop some but really. When the booster boxes are selling for $250 pre-order, and $275 on release. How much could the prices go down? $5? The price is going to the moon on this product. I was told booster would be minimally $12 each if not $15 each. I actually think those pre-order prices went up again today as well.
I've been saying for months this set will hammer the prices of modern staples. We'll see.
The people believing that the old versions will skyrocket and even hold their present price hold quite a few copies themselves and are scared of them plumetting. The new influx of cards will definitely bring the prices down all across the board. The art might be uglier than the old one, but it's not a foil card, which a lot of players frown upon. Also, Bob is a card serious players will want, so art won't matter at all.
What do you mean it's not a foil card?
Are you forgetting that not only does MM have foils, but instead of a basic land every single pack comes with a foil?
I hate the new art, but folks who want to play modern will probably not care and just the cheapest version. Saving money is a bigger need than being able to pay more for favorable art.
We have Goyf and Dark Confidant in MM, thus $80 + $40(?) for a possible box value of $120 easy return (if packed). Why would anyone sell the packs then? If a pack could contain a goyf or punk Bob; why not open them all and sell the singles? The stores are getting them at cost price, thus opening them all for singles sales seems a better pay off than selling packs to the players. Feel free to dissagree with me, but that idea/theory has floating around my head lately. The bonus of a foil in every pack also raises the stakes for stores not letting extra money leave the table. I know some of you will say that my theory is not sound cause other sets have chase rares, but MM may more than 5-8 serious chase rares (valued $40 and higher) with many uncommon high valued cards. Nothing is comparable to this unless we are talking about very old boxes of early sets.
Please read and digest everything I said before posting in response.
I know of a couple lgs that outside of having a few drafts do plan on opening the bulk of their alotment to sell as singles, your idea is not far fetched at all.
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Look at my name...what did you expect?
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
One of my LGS is doing a sealed modern masters event for $50. Im def doing that since thats almost retail for the 6 packs. Im glad i kept my bobs, new art is horrible
I don't like these threads, they are very bais and most of the users who post here have a vested interest in the orig BoB's not falling, even though the evidence is clearly in the favor of them doing so.
Saying that, you would be ignorant to not realize there will be a fall in price of BoB after MM is released because the supply will go up. How much is still up to discussion.
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Hi I'm Infecter4life and ironically I only play GBx decks.
Because they are mythic in the set, and the set has a high msrp to begin with (and with boxes already over 50% above msrp (some places nearly double that)) combined with the limited print run with only 24 packs per box, and you end up with there being more supply, to be sure, however many of the collectors would rather go for the old Bob, simply due to the art and original look/style, while many of the players may simply choose to go with whatever version is cheaper. The old one will inevitably end up at a higher value than the new one, but should drop some (likely at least $5, if not closer to $10) as a result of the reprint). Time will tell how the longer-term price will be affected by the reprint.
Saying that, you would be ignorant to not realize there will be a fall in price of BoB after MM is released because the supply will go up. How much is still up to discussion.
The supply/demand issue is an age old problem. Wizards has to do a really fine job of keeping it balanced. People are too concerned with the 'limited print run' aspect of modern masters, than what it will actually mean for the game. Modern is becoming more popular by the month, and you have to ask the question "will MM bring more people into the format?" The answer is innevitable "yes" but it really depends on how well WotC has marketed it and hyped it (quite well, I think).
It's not just people playing budget modern decks who now have access to Goyfs (but if the value doesn't change, neither will their access), it's people who play standard and now want to get into modern. It is quite possible that demand could outstrip supply (don't be fooled by MM presale prices, I bet half the people are just buying boxes to make money on, either sitting on the boxes for years, or flipping), which in turn actually makes all the current MM staples increase in value, even with the increased supply. It's really hard to tell until dealers start getting their orders in from their distributors, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if demand continued to outstrip supply.
I think the fallacy in investing in modern masters boxes is as follows:
You buy the box hoping in 2 years you'll sell for a ton of profit. The problem is, WOTC will release modern masters 2 in a few years.
Investing in cards is a bit silly, but investing in reprintable cards is even worse.
If they print a MM2 it will contain completely different card than MM1 and will have nearly zero impact on the value of MM1.
WotC has expressed recognition and respect for players' eternal collections, which is why MM1 is such a small print run. They could have easily blown up the entire eternal market, but they know it's better for their players and their business not to do so. Their actions thus far seem to make it clear they want Goyf, Bob, etc. to be highly sought after and valuable on the secondary market.
In contrast, consider Yugioh. Every year or two Konami chooses to cash in on the secondary market by reprinting nearly every valuable card as a fixed promo in a sealed tin product. They sell a ton of tins due to the demand for the promos and then print a new series of rare and powerful cards that become valuable. Rinse and repeat.
WotC could have easily printed Duel Deck: Bob vs Goyf years ago and sold a million of them. But they didn't.
I hate the new art, but folks who want to play modern will probably not care and just the cheapest version. Saving money is a bigger need than being able to pay more for favorable art.
We have Goyf and Dark Confidant in MM, thus $80 + $40(?) for a possible box value of $120 easy return (if packed). Why would anyone sell the packs then? If a pack could contain a goyf or punk Bob; why not open them all and sell the singles? The stores are getting them at cost price, thus opening them all for singles sales seems a better pay off than selling packs to the players. Feel free to dissagree with me, but that idea/theory has floating around my head lately. The bonus of a foil in every pack also raises the stakes for stores not letting extra money leave the table. I know some of you will say that my theory is not sound cause other sets have chase rares, but MM may more than 5-8 serious chase rares (valued $40 and higher) with many uncommon high valued cards. Nothing is comparable to this unless we are talking about very old boxes of early sets.
Please read and digest everything I said before posting in response.
This is only true if the seller refuses to sels boosters/boxes at anything other than MSRP. Otherwise, the value of a booster/box increases to reflect the perceived value of the odds of pulling the best possible outcome. Typically a sealed product is always more valuable than opening the product because of the low odds of a best case scenario.
For example, let's assume every box of MM has a Goyf and a Bob that retail for $120 as you suggest. MSRP is $168 for a box (24 packs) of MM. In this scenario, every box of MM is going to easily be worth more than it's MSRP. However, MSRP is merely a suggested price. SCG is already selling boxes of MM for $300, significantly higher than MSRP. Is it worth opening a box for singles if the box can be sold for $300? There's no way of telling until we know the remaining cards in MM. However, what is almost assured is that if the average value of cards pulled from a box of MM turns out to be $400, you won't be able to buy a box of MM for less than that.
Since the value of a box will increase to reflect the value of potential pulls, you're almost never winning by opening a box. When you buy a box, you're partly paying for the odds of a best case scenario. Thus, unless you get really lucky, the box is going to be more valuable sealed than opened. Compare to Worldwake boxes. I believe they retail for somewhere around $500/ea. right now because you might be able to pull a foil Jace. There is almost nothing else worth pulling from Worldwake. The mere chance of pulling one of the most sought after cards in Magic from a box is worth a huge premium, but odds are once you crack open the box your spoils will be worth maybe $50.
This is only true if the seller refuses to sels boosters/boxes at anything other than MSRP. Otherwise, the value of a booster/box increases to reflect the perceived value of the odds of pulling the best possible outcome. Typically a sealed product is always more valuable than opening the product because of the low odds of a best case scenario.
For example, let's assume every box of MM has a Goyf and a Bob that retail for $120 as you suggest. MSRP is $168 for a box (24 packs) of MM. In this scenario, every box of MM is going to easily be worth more than it's MSRP. However, MSRP is merely a suggested price. SCG is already selling boxes of MM for $300, significantly higher than MSRP. Is it worth opening a box for singles if the box can be sold for $300? There's no way of telling until we know the remaining cards in MM. However, what is almost assured is that if the average value of cards pulled from a box of MM turns out to be $400, you won't be able to buy a box of MM for less than that.
Since the value of a box will increase to reflect the value of potential pulls, you're almost never winning by opening a box. When you buy a box, you're partly paying for the odds of a best case scenario. Thus, unless you get really lucky, the box is going to be more valuable sealed than opened. Compare to Worldwake boxes. I believe they retail for somewhere around $500/ea. right now because you might be able to pull a foil Jace. There is almost nothing else worth pulling from Worldwake. The mere chance of pulling one of the most sought after cards in Magic from a box is worth a huge premium, but odds are once you crack open the box your spoils will be worth maybe $50.
Damn good response! Well reasoned and properly theorized. No dissagreements besides the value of possible pulls.
At $500 a box, would it be cheaper to get the originals for 1 deck build? Specifically, the possible pull of $250 in stock is not great for $350-500 investment. Am I concerned about the values dropping? Not really, cause I play with my collection. My greater fear is a new/reprint print slighty better than my staple card I would have spend more for. I just don't see the price drop from MM reprints to be that effective in dropping the prices that much (i really want a few cards to drop in price so I can save some money). If I was a store owner and bought the MM boxes at MSRP from Wizards, I would still open them all for individual sales.
Card tags added. -Galspanic
I would expect only a small decrease (maybe 10 $ at first, then the price back to current) and later on slightly slower growth in price. Another great value card for the set.
Set to default
That being said, the set will very likely have several amazing cards and boxes will likely exceed $300 within the year. Short-term/release period, it just depends on how much will be available.
why? Bob was expected by just about everyone.
I think this will undo his last price spike so hopefully he'll go back down to like $40-$45.
I agree. A lot of the current speculation price is because people are expecting to see some of the big cards like bob in it, so rather than increasing the price, we can only hope that it justifies it.
None of the modern masters reprints will be worth more than the original in the short term (6 months) due simply to the fact that people will try and sell them once the set is released.
Yeah, no kidding. I don't get why everyone is pretending the obvious factor of "Modern demand" vs. "Standard demand" doesn't exist.
It's like everyone thinks MM is this new set with the same demand as Standard. It's not even close so this increase in supply is going to affect the price of singles significantly.
The pack-MSRP will factor in some... but not much. Very soon we are going to have a TON of sellers dumping popular Modern staples into a market with limited demand (compared to Standard). I'm not saying the bottom will fall out... just, again, a significant price/value decrease across the board especially in the short-term (~12 months).
The people believing that the old versions will skyrocket and even hold their present price hold quite a few copies themselves and are scared of them plumetting. The new influx of cards will definitely bring the prices down all across the board. The art might be uglier than the old one, but it's not a foil card, which a lot of players frown upon. Also, Bob is a card serious players will want, so art won't matter at all.
I've been saying for months this set will hammer the prices of modern staples. We'll see.
What do you mean it's not a foil card?
Are you forgetting that not only does MM have foils, but instead of a basic land every single pack comes with a foil?
UBBreya's Toybox (Competitive, Combo)WR
RGodzilla, King of the MonstersG
-Retired Decks-
UBLazav, Dimir Mastermind (Competitive, UB Voltron/Control)UB
"Knowledge is such a burden. Release it. Release all your fears to me."
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We have Goyf and Dark Confidant in MM, thus $80 + $40(?) for a possible box value of $120 easy return (if packed). Why would anyone sell the packs then? If a pack could contain a goyf or punk Bob; why not open them all and sell the singles? The stores are getting them at cost price, thus opening them all for singles sales seems a better pay off than selling packs to the players. Feel free to dissagree with me, but that idea/theory has floating around my head lately. The bonus of a foil in every pack also raises the stakes for stores not letting extra money leave the table. I know some of you will say that my theory is not sound cause other sets have chase rares, but MM may more than 5-8 serious chase rares (valued $40 and higher) with many uncommon high valued cards. Nothing is comparable to this unless we are talking about very old boxes of early sets.
Please read and digest everything I said before posting in response.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
Thank you WOTC for introducing the Modern format, a format where all the whiners can enjoy a level playing field and where they can play with none of the best cards of all time!
Legacy
RUG DelverRUG
BUG DelverBUG
Modern
Good ol' fashioned JundBGR)[/I]
Standard
Too Boring
Commander
Azusa, Lost But SeekingG [I](foiling out)[/I]
Saying that, you would be ignorant to not realize there will be a fall in price of BoB after MM is released because the supply will go up. How much is still up to discussion.
You buy the box hoping in 2 years you'll sell for a ton of profit. The problem is, WOTC will release modern masters 2 in a few years.
Investing in cards is a bit silly, but investing in reprintable cards is even worse.
The supply/demand issue is an age old problem. Wizards has to do a really fine job of keeping it balanced. People are too concerned with the 'limited print run' aspect of modern masters, than what it will actually mean for the game. Modern is becoming more popular by the month, and you have to ask the question "will MM bring more people into the format?" The answer is innevitable "yes" but it really depends on how well WotC has marketed it and hyped it (quite well, I think).
It's not just people playing budget modern decks who now have access to Goyfs (but if the value doesn't change, neither will their access), it's people who play standard and now want to get into modern. It is quite possible that demand could outstrip supply (don't be fooled by MM presale prices, I bet half the people are just buying boxes to make money on, either sitting on the boxes for years, or flipping), which in turn actually makes all the current MM staples increase in value, even with the increased supply. It's really hard to tell until dealers start getting their orders in from their distributors, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if demand continued to outstrip supply.
If they print a MM2 it will contain completely different card than MM1 and will have nearly zero impact on the value of MM1.
WotC has expressed recognition and respect for players' eternal collections, which is why MM1 is such a small print run. They could have easily blown up the entire eternal market, but they know it's better for their players and their business not to do so. Their actions thus far seem to make it clear they want Goyf, Bob, etc. to be highly sought after and valuable on the secondary market.
In contrast, consider Yugioh. Every year or two Konami chooses to cash in on the secondary market by reprinting nearly every valuable card as a fixed promo in a sealed tin product. They sell a ton of tins due to the demand for the promos and then print a new series of rare and powerful cards that become valuable. Rinse and repeat.
WotC could have easily printed Duel Deck: Bob vs Goyf years ago and sold a million of them. But they didn't.
This is only true if the seller refuses to sels boosters/boxes at anything other than MSRP. Otherwise, the value of a booster/box increases to reflect the perceived value of the odds of pulling the best possible outcome. Typically a sealed product is always more valuable than opening the product because of the low odds of a best case scenario.
For example, let's assume every box of MM has a Goyf and a Bob that retail for $120 as you suggest. MSRP is $168 for a box (24 packs) of MM. In this scenario, every box of MM is going to easily be worth more than it's MSRP. However, MSRP is merely a suggested price. SCG is already selling boxes of MM for $300, significantly higher than MSRP. Is it worth opening a box for singles if the box can be sold for $300? There's no way of telling until we know the remaining cards in MM. However, what is almost assured is that if the average value of cards pulled from a box of MM turns out to be $400, you won't be able to buy a box of MM for less than that.
Since the value of a box will increase to reflect the value of potential pulls, you're almost never winning by opening a box. When you buy a box, you're partly paying for the odds of a best case scenario. Thus, unless you get really lucky, the box is going to be more valuable sealed than opened. Compare to Worldwake boxes. I believe they retail for somewhere around $500/ea. right now because you might be able to pull a foil Jace. There is almost nothing else worth pulling from Worldwake. The mere chance of pulling one of the most sought after cards in Magic from a box is worth a huge premium, but odds are once you crack open the box your spoils will be worth maybe $50.
Damn good response! Well reasoned and properly theorized. No dissagreements besides the value of possible pulls.
At $500 a box, would it be cheaper to get the originals for 1 deck build? Specifically, the possible pull of $250 in stock is not great for $350-500 investment. Am I concerned about the values dropping? Not really, cause I play with my collection. My greater fear is a new/reprint print slighty better than my staple card I would have spend more for. I just don't see the price drop from MM reprints to be that effective in dropping the prices that much (i really want a few cards to drop in price so I can save some money). If I was a store owner and bought the MM boxes at MSRP from Wizards, I would still open them all for individual sales.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!