So I've been playing this deck in various incarnations since October 2012, but I'm just now getting around to putting it on the forums. BG has been my favorite color combination ever since I traded for a Spiritmonger way back in 2002. The deck functions like "The Rock" lists of old: a little bit of disruption, a little bit of mid-range, and a whole lot of grindy-ness.
Steel Hellkite: It's a good card, but I don't think I necessarily want it in this build. The fact it needs to connect in combat makes it a weak option compared to other artifact and Golgari answers (compare to Pernicious Deed, Oblivion Stone). I like this card a lot better in decks that don't have quite the array of answers, like in Animar.
Seems pretty solid, although you seem to be running more of a BG Best in Slot strategy instead of an all in Glissa deck. Nothing wrong with that of course, but my Glissa deck (not listed) has a lot more artifacts and sacrifices raw power for synergy.
Agreed. I'm actually pretty flexible with my 6-drops, and Massacre Wurm usually rotates in and out depending on how my meta shifts. The wurm trades spots with Grave Titan, normally.
Seems pretty solid, although you seem to be running more of a BG Best in Slot strategy instead of an all in Glissa deck. Nothing wrong with that of course, but my Glissa deck (not listed) has a lot more artifacts and sacrifices raw power for synergy.
That's an honest observation :p. I've never quite liked the artifact-heavy builds, opting for more of a "big-mana" approach like Woohah's primer. To be totally frank, I've been putting in some time on SaraceenPsycho's Varolz list, and I've been tempted to try out the troll instead if I can ever get some playtesting time in.
Off the top of my head: Where is your Batterskull, Spine of Ish Sah, and Claws of Gix? Fangren Marauder is certainly cute in here. Evolving Wilds is garbage in here in my opinion (no offense), the land comes into play tapped, and you should have enough color fixing in green ramp.
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"Fair? At what point in our negotiations did you convince yourself my goal was to be fair?"
That's an honest observation :p. I've never quite liked the artifact-heavy builds, opting for more of a "big-mana" approach like Woohah's primer. To be totally frank, I've been putting in some time on SaraceenPsycho's Varolz list, and I've been tempted to try out the troll instead if I can ever get some playtesting time in.
When I builded Glissa in the past it was a artifact heavy build as well (I just love the recursion xD). But the great thing about Varolz is that you don't need him to win, you'll just need another sacrifice outlet. If Glissa is protected by Darksteel Plate, Lightning Greaves, Sword of X & Y, etc etc. A simple Terminus or Spin into Myth will screw your gameplan. Same with Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker for example, it's a very strong deck... Until you lose your commander. If you don't really like the artifact build I highly suggest that you try out Varolz ^^.
Off the top of my head: Where is your Batterskull, Spine of Ish Sah, and Claws of Gix? Fangren Marauder is certainly cute in here. Evolving Wilds is garbage in here in my opinion (no offense), the land comes into play tapped, and you should have enough color fixing in green ramp.
Before I address these card choices, let me reiterate: I'm going more for more of a BGBirthing Pod/recursion deck, not an artifact-heavy recursion deck.
Spine of Ish Sah: A 7-mana Vindicate? No thanks. I already feel that I have ample point removal with several creature answers and the cheaper artifact options.
Claws of Gix: All artifacts either self-sacrifice (like the various spellbombs/baubles) or are creatures. Not needed.
Evolving Wilds: While I get your point, it's pretty tech when you're also running Life from the Loam (and don't have the budget to pick up more fetch lands :p).
When I builded Glissa in the past it was a artifact heavy build as well (I just love the recursion xD). But the great thing about Varolz is that you don't need him to win, you'll just need another sacrifice outlet. If Glissa is protected by Darksteel Plate, Lightning Greaves, Sword of X & Y, etc etc. A simple Terminus or Spin into Myth will screw your gameplan. Same with Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker for example, it's a very strong deck... Until you lose your commander. If you don't really like the artifact build I highly suggest that you try out Varolz ^^.
I completely agree. This is part of the reason I've avoided the artifact-heavy strategy: if you can't stick Glissa, you've now got a graveyard full of sub-par artifact choices. The only times that I've really enjoyed Glissa is when I can get a Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone loop going. Maybe between today and tomorrow I'll get together a list with Varolz. Off the top of my head, things that would get cut: the replicas, Moonglove Extract, Executioner's Capsule, Myr Retriever, Golgari Signet, Expedition Map. I'm also not a huge fan of the Praetor's Counsel for it's cost. I used to run Restock there, and I noticed you've been using it in Varolz. I may put that back in.
Well this is very different to what I have. How is Disciple of Bolas I am always tempted to add him to my list since I lack 4 drops... but never been certain.
Well this is very different to what I have. How is Disciple of Bolas I am always tempted to add him to my list since I lack 4 drops... but never been certain.
I go back and forth. This card choice is a hold-over from when this was a Kresh the Bloodbraided deck. I find it hard to sacrifice something much bigger than a 2/X, making it kind of weak. However, if I make the switch to Varolz, he's definitely going to stay in.
What about Sever the bloodline? too many indestructable creatures floating around. I find it very good against tokens as well.
I've actually debated this before. Flashback also has synergy with Deadbridge Chant and Life from the Loam. I will keep this in mind as I rework the list :thumbsup:.
hmm I'd like to see more token generation in a deck that likes to be sacing creatures.
It's actually not as important as you'd think. Beyond Grave Pact and Mind Slash, there's not too many things that need fed. Bloodghast and skeleton usually do just fine. As a sidenote, I've been reworking my old Teysa list. She's meant to be more of a token-grindy build, so I try not to overlap her too much with my Golgari list.
Ha, I tried this card when I was running Woohah's list to the T. Without Glissa out, this card is pretty weaksauce. It's also hella expensive to equip. For these reasons it ultimately got cut.
Massive update. Most importantly, Glissa is out, Varolz is in. I was able to get in quite a few Cockatrice games this weekend, and Varolz did not disappoint. He definitely fits my game plan better than Glissa did, given that my list has always been more Rock/reanimator than artifact-heavy. Some particular comments:
Wirewood Herald: I saw this on ISBPathfinder's "cards to watch", and in initial testing I retained a small Glissa recursion package, so this helped to find her. However, I never went for Glissa. Herald -> Varolz -> find a mana dork/Oracle of Mul Daya is a super strong play to get yourself set-up with a solid board position.
Reaper of the Wild: I proxied this guy (EDIT: ahem, lady, I mean) up, and she's been pretty good. She turns any sac-outlet into a pseudo Viscera Seer, and she's got solid stats for a mid-range creature. I'm impressed so far.
Yavimaya Dryad: I really only want a max of three guys at 3 CMC that find lands, so I tried this over Farhaven Elf. Although she's a little tougher to play at 1GG, she has two major strengths: 1) the extra point of power plays well with Disciple of Bolas and Momentous Fall and 2) having forestwalk means that Varolz can load her up with counters and turn into a beatstick if necessary.
On a more general note, I'm putting the Life from the Loam package back in. There's randomly LD popping up around my meta, so this really helps to protect me. Filling the graveyard helps to feed Varolz, and recurring Strip Mine is never a bad idea. At the very least, this really helps to hit your land drops.
Notable omissionKokopuffs: I recently acquired a Kokusho, but I'm refraining from including it here for one simple reason: I'm trying to put an Orzhov list back together (probably Teysa 1.0), and Koko will be more on-theme there compared to here. If I ever acquire another, it'll probably go in here.
Spiritmonger - I remember this guy in his hayday.... those days are long past though sadly. He just doesn't cut it anymore. He is SOOOOOO cool.... but he doesn't really work well in EDH.
Massacre Wurm - if you can make it work usually, I think its cool. I just couldn't ever make it work for me. If people slow roll tokens though I think its great but there were just too few situations where it was going to work for me personally.
Liliana of the Veil - I have never been impressed by her in multiplayer EDH. If you play some 1v1 then I could understand it but she just doesn't scale that well for multiplayer. I think you would get more out of Fleshbag Marauder who can hit everyone and can be abused much easier.
Overall, it looks like you have a good start. The MLD that you encounter is concerning though....
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Spiritmonger - I remember this guy in his hayday.... those days are long past though sadly. He just doesn't cut it anymore. He is SOOOOOO cool.... but he doesn't really work well in EDH.
Ha, I know he's been greatly eclipsed by other beaters, but he's been my #1 pet card ever since I started playing Magic :old:. I just can't bring myself to cut him. Plus, he's foily. He does have two small saving graces: 1) he's got cheap regeneration to let him survive most of our board wipes and 2) his high P/T to CMC ratio makes him a decent scavenge target in a pinch.
Massacre Wurm - if you can make it work usually, I think its cool. I just couldn't ever make it work for me. If people slow roll tokens though I think its great but there were just too few situations where it was going to work for me personally.
Yeah, I really go back and forth on the wurm. In all of my testing with Glissa, 9 out of 10 times after drawing the wurm I wished it was a Grave Titan or Ink-Eyes. Inevitably when I cut it, I immediately get steamrolled by Rhys. Grave Titan would be the next candidate to go into that slot, as his zombies can help keep Varolz alive.
Liliana of the Veil - I have never been impressed by her in multiplayer EDH. If you play some 1v1 then I could understand it but she just doesn't scale that well for multiplayer. I think you would get more out of Fleshbag Marauder who can hit everyone and can be abused much easier.
You've actually hit the nail on the head here. Although I prefer multiplayer games, there's no organized EDH night at my LGS, so it's often tricky to get 3 other people together for a game. I will say that beyond being great in 1v1, I actually find her +1 extremely useful. Pitching a big guy with a Reanimate in hand can be a great play, and she can be fed consistently with Life from the Loam. If I were to cut her, she'd probably become Liliana of the Dark Realms. Her +1 is great ramp and helps to keep ahead of a big Death Cloud, and her -3 help to remove indestructible dudes or possibly let Skithy get in there for a OHK.
Update, September 2013: After a good run with Glissa, I'm retiring her to try something new. Initial playtesting has shown that Varolz is a whole lot of fun to play and coincides better with the strategy I'm trying for anyways. Although I'm retaining a few card choices from Glissa, a lot of inspiration has come from ISBPathfinder's and SaraceenPsycho's lists (http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=512433&highlight=Varolz and http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=532023&highlight=Varolz%2C+the+Scar+striped, respectively). These guys have had some awesome discussion on this general in their threads and can serve as an invaluable resource for anyone else interested in Varolz.
The deck
1 Varolz, the Scar-Striped
Creatures (27)
1 Death's Shadow
1 Viscera Seer
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Scavenging Ooze
1 Viridian Emissary
1 Wirewood Herald
1 Boneshredder
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fierce Empath
1 Wood Elves
1 Yavimaya Dryad
1 Yavimaya Elder
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Faceless Butcher
1 Mindslicer
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Reaper of the Wild
1 Acidic Slime
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
1 Spiritmonger
1 Grave Titan
1 Massacre Wurm
1 Rune-Scared Demon
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Liliana of the Veil
Artifacts (4)
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Birthing Pod
Enchantments (10)
1 Phyrexian Reclamation
1 Rancor
1 Animate Dead
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Mind Slash
1 Necromancy
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Grave Pact
1 Greater Good
Instants (6)
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Beast Within
1 Corpse Dance
1 Putrefy
1 Momentous Fall
Sorceries (12)
1 Reanimate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Life from the Loam
1 Regrowth
1 Buried Alive
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Damnation
1 Living Death
1 Restock
1 Gaze of Granite
1 Genesis Wave
Utility Lands (6)
1 Blinkmoth Nexus
1 High Market
1 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Yavimaya Hollow
Regular Lands (32)
1 Command Tower
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Tainted Wood
1 Twilight Mire
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Woodland Cemetery
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
10 Swamp
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Oran-Reif, the Vastwood
10 Forest
Retired Glissa, the Traitor list
The deck:
1 Glissa, the Traitor
Critters
1 Acidic Slime
1 Big Game Hunter
1 Bloodghast
1 Dimir House Guard
1 Disciple of Bolas
1 Eternal Witness
1 Fleshbag Marauder
1 Genesis
1 Grave Titan
1 Oracle of Mul Daya
1 Puppeteer Clique
1 Reassembling Skeleton
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Spiritmonger
1 Sylvan Primordial
1 Terastodon
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Yavimaya Elder
Artifact Critters
1 Duplicant
1 Moriok Replica
1 Myr Retriever
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Sylvok Replica
1 Wurmcoil Engine
Non-Critter Artifacts
1 Birthing Pod
1 Executioner's Capsule
1 Expedition Map
1 Golgari Signet
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Moongloove Extract
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Oblivion Stone
1 Sol Ring
1 Animate Dead
1 Deadbridge Chant
1 Grave Pact
1 Mind Slash
1 Necromancy
1 Pernicious Deed
1 Phyrexian Arena
Instants
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Beast Within
1 Crop Rotation
1 Entomb
1 Putrefy
Sorceries
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 Buried Alive
1 Damnation
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Genesis Wave
1 Life from the Loam
1 Living Death
1 Maelstrom Pulse
1 Praetor's Counsel
1 Rampant Growth
1 Reanimate
1 Rise of the Dark Realms
Planeswalkers
1 Garruk Relentless
1 Liliana of the Veil
Lands
Utility
1 High Market
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Yavimaya Hollow
1 Barren Moor
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Command Tower
1 Evolving Wilds
1 Forbidden Orchard
10 Forest
1 Llanowar Wastes
1 Overgrown Tomb
10 Swamp
1 Tainted Wood
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Twilight Mire
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Woodland Cemetery
Change log
stuff
And what about Steel Hellkite?
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
I just realized that I never responded to this :embarrass:.
Goblin Cannon: It's cute, but it's quite the mana-sink compared to Executioner's Capusle and Moonglove Extract.
Steel Hellkite: It's a good card, but I don't think I necessarily want it in this build. The fact it needs to connect in combat makes it a weak option compared to other artifact and Golgari answers (compare to Pernicious Deed, Oblivion Stone). I like this card a lot better in decks that don't have quite the array of answers, like in Animar.
stuff
GB [Primer][Competitive][Stax][Combo] Meren of Clan Nel Toth 95% RETIRED
UW [Primer][Competitive][Combo][Stax] Brago, King Eternal RETIRED
BR Rakdos, Lord of Riots (75%)
G Titania - 75%
W SRAM - Welcome to the cheeri0s jam 95%
U Teferi - stax 100%
R Neheb - janky mono red eggs combo 90%
B Gonti - 50% valuetown
-Richard Dawkins
Seems pretty solid, although you seem to be running more of a BG Best in Slot strategy instead of an all in Glissa deck. Nothing wrong with that of course, but my Glissa deck (not listed) has a lot more artifacts and sacrifices raw power for synergy.
Rafiq of the Many UWG
Sedris, the Traitor King URB
Kaalia of the Vast RWB
Savra, Queen of Golgari GB
Trostani, Selesnya's Voice GW
Eight-and-a-Half-Tails EquipmentW
Agreed. I'm actually pretty flexible with my 6-drops, and Massacre Wurm usually rotates in and out depending on how my meta shifts. The wurm trades spots with Grave Titan, normally.
That's an honest observation :p. I've never quite liked the artifact-heavy builds, opting for more of a "big-mana" approach like Woohah's primer. To be totally frank, I've been putting in some time on SaraceenPsycho's Varolz list, and I've been tempted to try out the troll instead if I can ever get some playtesting time in.
stuff
WGSaffi EriksdotterGW
UBGThe MimeoplasmGBU
When I builded Glissa in the past it was a artifact heavy build as well (I just love the recursion xD). But the great thing about Varolz is that you don't need him to win, you'll just need another sacrifice outlet. If Glissa is protected by Darksteel Plate, Lightning Greaves, Sword of X & Y, etc etc. A simple Terminus or Spin into Myth will screw your gameplan. Same with Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker for example, it's a very strong deck... Until you lose your commander. If you don't really like the artifact build I highly suggest that you try out Varolz ^^.
Neheb
Marath
Yidris
Sharuum
Yidris
Before I address these card choices, let me reiterate: I'm going more for more of a BG Birthing Pod/recursion deck, not an artifact-heavy recursion deck.
Batterskull: Although this card is good, I prefer my beatsticks to be tutor-able by Birthing Pod or Garruk, the Veil-Cursed.
Spine of Ish Sah: A 7-mana Vindicate? No thanks. I already feel that I have ample point removal with several creature answers and the cheaper artifact options.
Claws of Gix: All artifacts either self-sacrifice (like the various spellbombs/baubles) or are creatures. Not needed.
Fangren Marauder: Wurmcoil Engine recoups life loss just fine on its own.
Evolving Wilds: While I get your point, it's pretty tech when you're also running Life from the Loam (and don't have the budget to pick up more fetch lands :p).
I completely agree. This is part of the reason I've avoided the artifact-heavy strategy: if you can't stick Glissa, you've now got a graveyard full of sub-par artifact choices. The only times that I've really enjoyed Glissa is when I can get a Nevinyrral's Disk/Oblivion Stone loop going. Maybe between today and tomorrow I'll get together a list with Varolz. Off the top of my head, things that would get cut: the replicas, Moonglove Extract, Executioner's Capsule, Myr Retriever, Golgari Signet, Expedition Map. I'm also not a huge fan of the Praetor's Counsel for it's cost. I used to run Restock there, and I noticed you've been using it in Varolz. I may put that back in.
stuff
Moonglove extract seems such a small effect.
What about Sever the bloodline? too many indestructable creatures floating around. I find it very good against tokens as well.
Can you find the space for the Durdle post? (trading post) it is very good as a back up Glissa.
hmm I'd like to see more token generation in a deck that likes to be sacing creatures.
skullclamp?
What is you opinion on infinite combo's?
Wurmcoil engine/myr battlesphere/grave titan + Ashnods Altar + Nim deathmantle.. infinite creatures.
Pioneer:UR Pheonix
Modern:U Mono U Tron
EDH
GB Glissa, the traitor: Army of Cans
UW Dragonlord Ojutai: Dragonlord NOjutai
UWGDerevi, Empyrial Tactician "you cannot fight the storm"
R Zirilan of the claw. The solution to every problem is dragons
UB Etrata, the Silencer Cloning assassination
Peasant cube: Cards I own
I go back and forth. This card choice is a hold-over from when this was a Kresh the Bloodbraided deck. I find it hard to sacrifice something much bigger than a 2/X, making it kind of weak. However, if I make the switch to Varolz, he's definitely going to stay in.
This is a meta-choice. This card kills Kaalia dead (which Executioner's Capsule can't). At worst, it can knock a few points off a planeswalker.
I've actually debated this before. Flashback also has synergy with Deadbridge Chant and Life from the Loam. I will keep this in mind as I rework the list :thumbsup:.
I've thought about it. I only have one copy, and I usually keep it in my Boros lists.
It's actually not as important as you'd think. Beyond Grave Pact and Mind Slash, there's not too many things that need fed. Bloodghast and skeleton usually do just fine. As a sidenote, I've been reworking my old Teysa list. She's meant to be more of a token-grindy build, so I try not to overlap her too much with my Golgari list.
A solid choice, but this ties into the lack of token generation above. It definitely has a place in my Jor and Teysa lists.
My meta tries to avoid them, so I do as well. If I were to include a combo, I'd definitely put in a Mikaeus, the Unhallowed to allow for crazy Puppeteer Clique/Woodfall Primus loops.
Ha, I tried this card when I was running Woohah's list to the T. Without Glissa out, this card is pretty weaksauce. It's also hella expensive to equip. For these reasons it ultimately got cut.
stuff
Wirewood Herald: I saw this on ISBPathfinder's "cards to watch", and in initial testing I retained a small Glissa recursion package, so this helped to find her. However, I never went for Glissa. Herald -> Varolz -> find a mana dork/Oracle of Mul Daya is a super strong play to get yourself set-up with a solid board position.
Reaper of the Wild: I proxied this
guy(EDIT: ahem, lady, I mean) up, and she's been pretty good. She turns any sac-outlet into a pseudo Viscera Seer, and she's got solid stats for a mid-range creature. I'm impressed so far.Yavimaya Dryad: I really only want a max of three guys at 3 CMC that find lands, so I tried this over Farhaven Elf. Although she's a little tougher to play at 1GG, she has two major strengths: 1) the extra point of power plays well with Disciple of Bolas and Momentous Fall and 2) having forestwalk means that Varolz can load her up with counters and turn into a beatstick if necessary.
On a more general note, I'm putting the Life from the Loam package back in. There's randomly LD popping up around my meta, so this really helps to protect me. Filling the graveyard helps to feed Varolz, and recurring Strip Mine is never a bad idea. At the very least, this really helps to hit your land drops.
Notable omission Kokopuffs: I recently acquired a Kokusho, but I'm refraining from including it here for one simple reason: I'm trying to put an Orzhov list back together (probably Teysa 1.0), and Koko will be more on-theme there compared to here. If I ever acquire another, it'll probably go in here.
What do you guys think?
stuff
Massacre Wurm - if you can make it work usually, I think its cool. I just couldn't ever make it work for me. If people slow roll tokens though I think its great but there were just too few situations where it was going to work for me personally.
Liliana of the Veil - I have never been impressed by her in multiplayer EDH. If you play some 1v1 then I could understand it but she just doesn't scale that well for multiplayer. I think you would get more out of Fleshbag Marauder who can hit everyone and can be abused much easier.
Overall, it looks like you have a good start. The MLD that you encounter is concerning though....
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[Modern] Allies
Ha, I know he's been greatly eclipsed by other beaters, but he's been my #1 pet card ever since I started playing Magic :old:. I just can't bring myself to cut him. Plus, he's foily. He does have two small saving graces: 1) he's got cheap regeneration to let him survive most of our board wipes and 2) his high P/T to CMC ratio makes him a decent scavenge target in a pinch.
Yeah, I really go back and forth on the wurm. In all of my testing with Glissa, 9 out of 10 times after drawing the wurm I wished it was a Grave Titan or Ink-Eyes. Inevitably when I cut it, I immediately get steamrolled by Rhys. Grave Titan would be the next candidate to go into that slot, as his zombies can help keep Varolz alive.
You've actually hit the nail on the head here. Although I prefer multiplayer games, there's no organized EDH night at my LGS, so it's often tricky to get 3 other people together for a game. I will say that beyond being great in 1v1, I actually find her +1 extremely useful. Pitching a big guy with a Reanimate in hand can be a great play, and she can be fed consistently with Life from the Loam. If I were to cut her, she'd probably become Liliana of the Dark Realms. Her +1 is great ramp and helps to keep ahead of a big Death Cloud, and her -3 help to remove indestructible dudes or possibly let Skithy get in there for a OHK.
Thank you! I will continue to do more testing, but I'm really enjoying the switch to Varolz from Glissa.
stuff