It's always awesome to see another pauper cube! In terms of initial cuts/changes, I'd recommend balancing out numbers in each color and then playing some games with it to see what works and what doesn't. There are also a ton of other pauper cubes on here, as well as other resources in the Pauper/Peasant subforum, like number crunch and "evaluate every pauper cube-legal card" projects which I've personally found really helpful in making changes.
I've also been a competitive player in the Classic Pauper scene on MTGO so the vast majority of picks are lifted from the top decks there.
There's some overlap between constructed pauper and pauper cube, but a lot of archetype-motivating constructed pauper cards like Kiln Fiend, Spellstutter Sprite, or Empty the Warrens aren't nearly as good in (singleton) cube as they are in constructed. It's just really hard in many pauper cubes to regularly get all the cards in a draft to make those archetypes work well. You can make them work, but you'll probably have to include a lot of support cards that would usually be considered pretty unconventional inclusions.
I tried giving each color an aggro path. I'm guessing that Red will be the most successful in this and green/black will probably be the least.
Red, White, and Black have been the easiest to support aggro in, personally. Green and Blue have been a bit more difficult because their card pools are heavily split between tempo and control (for Blue) or aggro and midrange / ramp (for Green). That said, there are enough cards to make each color be pretty much whatever you want it to be.
I tried this a while ago and it never really came together reliably so I scrapped it, but I'd be interested to see if you can make it work since it seems really fun. Some cards that work well for it that I don't see in your list are Deputy of Acquittals and the Planeshift bounce creature cycle (Silver Drake, Lava Zombie, etc.).
There's (at least) one person on here that includes rebels, but I think(?) it's only in white. Hopefully they see this thread and can comment on how rebels have worked out.
Not having many good reanimator effects at common really hurts this archetype. There's decent support for G/B reanimator and dredge decks in Peasant cubes, but I don't think there's enough in pauper. That said, many of the cards you mentioned are super good and easily cubeable on their own.
There's definitely more than enough support for it (there was an entire cube list a few days ago revolving solely around (Scars of) Mirrodin mechanics and artifact-based archetypes). Most lists you'll find on here don't seem to support affinity or metalcraft, but that's probably because it's difficult to partially support (and it requires a lot of support), so it's often easier to not support it at all.
Another archetype to consider is a G/W/u hexproof/auras/equipment archetype. Also, since Theros is supposedly heavily enchantment-based, it'll hopefully get more support in the coming months.
It's always awesome to see another pauper cube! In terms of initial cuts/changes, I'd recommend balancing out numbers in each color and then playing some games with it to see what works and what doesn't. There are also a ton of other pauper cubes on here, as well as other resources in the Pauper/Peasant subforum, like number crunch and "evaluate every pauper cube-legal card" projects which I've personally found really helpful in making changes.
Yeah, this place is an amazing resource. I was finding it very overwhelming going through all the Pauper constructed archetypes and then looking at ALL the commons from draft blocks on Gatherer. I'm now checking out people's cubetutors and it makes it much easier!
There's some overlap between constructed pauper and pauper cube, but a lot of archetype-motivating constructed pauper cards like Kiln Fiend, Spellstutter Sprite, or Empty the Warrens aren't nearly as good in (singleton) cube as they are in constructed. It's just really hard in many pauper cubes to regularly get all the cards in a draft to make those archetypes work well. You can make them work, but you'll probably have to include a lot of support cards that would usually be considered pretty unconventional inclusions.
Yeah, I'll need to figure out which cards work and which are too dependant on support cards. For example, I agree that Spellstutter Sprite probably won't work since there aren't enough faeries, but Kiln Fiend I believe should still be a powerful inclusion in any deck that runs a fair amount of instants/sorceries. I could see him being a powerful option in a straight up mono-red deck with burn cards though he can be even more powerful in UR. I threw in Nivix Cyclops and Wee Dragonauts too
Red, White, and Black have been the easiest to support aggro in, personally. Green and Blue have been a bit more difficult because their card pools are heavily split between tempo and control (for Blue) or aggro and midrange / ramp (for Green). That said, there are enough cards to make each color be pretty much whatever you want it to be.
Yeah, my green is especially split at the moment. I may take out some of the mana elves for more stompy creatures after testing.
I tried this a while ago and it never really came together reliably so I scrapped it, but I'd be interested to see if you can make it work since it seems really fun. Some cards that work well for it that I don't see in your list are Deputy of Acquittals and the Planeshift bounce creature cycle (Silver Drake, Lava Zombie, etc.).
Really? I thought it would be pretty easy to pull off. Pauper has tons of solid creatures with ETB effects and things like Momentary Blink don't even need to target an ETB creature for it to be powerful since it lets you counter targeted removal.
There's (at least) one person on here that includes rebels, but I think(?) it's only in white. Hopefully they see this thread and can comment on how rebels have worked out.
I'm currently running 8, the others I felt are individually too subpar to justify including. Not sure if that's enough. I'll probably cut it just to get closer to my goal of 360.
Not having many good reanimator effects at common really hurts this archetype. There's decent support for G/B reanimator and dredge decks in Peasant cubes, but I don't think there's enough in pauper. That said, many of the cards you mentioned are super good and easily cubeable on their own.
Not much good reanimation but I feel like there's enough overlap of "graveyard matters" mechanics the good cards from each mechanic together will probably mesh into a strong archetype. For example, you could use Looter il-Kor (many other good ones too) to discard Sewer Shambler and then scavenge it for value, or maybe discard Crippling Fatigue for a cheaper flashback, or madness a Grave Scabbler, or ditch a creature for Stitched Drake. Maybe turn 2 cycle Twisted Abomination, turn 3 Exhume it with regeneration mana up. That's the hope at least.
There's definitely more than enough support for it (there was an entire cube list a few days ago revolving solely around (Scars of) Mirrodin mechanics and artifact-based archetypes). Most lists you'll find on here don't seem to support affinity or metalcraft, but that's probably because it's difficult to partially support (and it requires a lot of support), so it's often easier to not support it at all.
Hmm yeah, maybe just cut it then.
Another archetype to consider is a G/W/u hexproof/auras/equipment archetype. Also, since Theros is supposedly heavily enchantment-based, it'll hopefully get more support in the coming months.
Actually I forgot to mention that I am planning to support that archetype. I'm running 3 hexproof green dudes already and some sweet auras, plus auramancer and stuff to support an enchantment deck. I'm looking through your list now and spotted a hexproof blue dude so I'll add that too![/QUOTE]
Also trying to give some lovin' to 5color control. A little bit of sunburst, domain, stuff like that.
Finally, been thinking about adding the proliferate commons. There's tons of cards that give +1/+1 counters already in my cube. Evolve, undying, bloodthirst, unleash.. Might work out well.
Thanks for the help! I'll start balancing out the colors. Since I'm aiming for archetypes, I feel like it's in my best interest to keep things to 360 so it's easier for people to find their archetype support cards.
I got the list down to 420 and balanced the colors! Black has one more card but that's only because each other color has two hybrid cards available which I counted at 0.5 cards each.
Now comes refinement. Getting the mana curve right, swapping out for better cards, balance concerns, potential archetypes, etc.
I noticed that there were bucketloads of powerful izzet cards that I left out for the sake of balance. Also a bunch more blue 3/1 flyers for 3cmc that I simply couldn't fit in yet.
I went blue on a 1st pick Mulldrifter and stuck around after picking up Stormbound Geist, Withdraw, and some other evasive goodies. I snapped up Kiln Fiend and Nivix Cyclops and picked up a couple sweet red burn spells to compliment it.
Ended up going 2-1 with a fun UR tempo deck. The guy who went 3-0 was Bw, focusing on Black board wipes including Pestilence and splashing white mostly for Guardian of the Guildpact.
Pestilence and Guardian were brutal by themselves, but my god, a couple games they were out at the same time and it just wasn't fair. Talk about a 2 card combo!
A couple things I noticed:
1) Red removal is stupid good. The majority of creatures in my cube are 1 toughness and so things like Flame Jab, Arc Trail, Arc Lightning are way too good. It's somewhat balanced by the fact that EVERYONE wants them as splashes so nobody's deck is too crazy.
2) Blue was overvalued this time. 3 of the 4 decks featured it. Most people went in assuming Pauper would be similar to Power Cube, so this will change I think.
3) The solitary green deck didn't do well. There's ramp but not much to ramp to. It requires more testing but maybe I need to fiddle around there.
4) Black board wipes are huge. Pestilence, Crypt Rats, and Evincar's Justice. They're so efficient in a format full of low toughness creatures. I'll keep an eye out on this too. I may need to introduce more fatties. Maybe Cloud Elemental instead of a Skywinder Drake.
Card considerations: War Falcon. Fantastic aggro card, possibly even an efficient defender. I currently run 22 white cards that are knights/soldiers to let it attack. I'm not sure if that's enough though in a 420 cube, is it?
The rest of the Invoker cycle. I didn't see Wildheart Invoker or Dawnglare Invoker but I'm hoping they'll be good, especially Wildheart since it's a mana dump for green ramp. Maybe Bloodrite Invoker and a red one too? To make rampy control decks more viable.
I lowered the card count down to 400 for more consistency and stronger decks, while keeping things a little diverse from my 8-mans.
With a heavy sigh, I did away with all (I hope) of the cutesy stuff. I feel like no matter how much I try to support fringe cards, they'll never be consistent enough to ever see play. No more Opaline Bracers or Skyreach Manta for the 5color proliferate deck that never happens. No more Basking Rootwalla or Grave Scabbler to be discarded with Wild Mongrel, Looter il-Kor, or the other sweet discard effects. No more Ethereal Armor. No more War Falcon in my white pool of 22 soldiers/knights.. okay, maybe War Falcon..
Cube Size: 400
Main: 62 of each color (black has 62, the rest have 61 + 2 hybrid cards), 44 multicolor, 31 colorless, 29 land
Format: Pauper
Portal: Yes
Un-Cards: No
Average # of Players: 4-8
Banned: Skullclamp
UBRThraximundar, Tribal ZombiesUBR
WURZedruu's Great TradesWUR
There's some overlap between constructed pauper and pauper cube, but a lot of archetype-motivating constructed pauper cards like Kiln Fiend, Spellstutter Sprite, or Empty the Warrens aren't nearly as good in (singleton) cube as they are in constructed. It's just really hard in many pauper cubes to regularly get all the cards in a draft to make those archetypes work well. You can make them work, but you'll probably have to include a lot of support cards that would usually be considered pretty unconventional inclusions.
Red, White, and Black have been the easiest to support aggro in, personally. Green and Blue have been a bit more difficult because their card pools are heavily split between tempo and control (for Blue) or aggro and midrange / ramp (for Green). That said, there are enough cards to make each color be pretty much whatever you want it to be.
I tried this a while ago and it never really came together reliably so I scrapped it, but I'd be interested to see if you can make it work since it seems really fun. Some cards that work well for it that I don't see in your list are Deputy of Acquittals and the Planeshift bounce creature cycle (Silver Drake, Lava Zombie, etc.).
There's (at least) one person on here that includes rebels, but I think(?) it's only in white. Hopefully they see this thread and can comment on how rebels have worked out.
Not having many good reanimator effects at common really hurts this archetype. There's decent support for G/B reanimator and dredge decks in Peasant cubes, but I don't think there's enough in pauper. That said, many of the cards you mentioned are super good and easily cubeable on their own.
There's definitely more than enough support for it (there was an entire cube list a few days ago revolving solely around (Scars of) Mirrodin mechanics and artifact-based archetypes). Most lists you'll find on here don't seem to support affinity or metalcraft, but that's probably because it's difficult to partially support (and it requires a lot of support), so it's often easier to not support it at all.
Another archetype to consider is a G/W/u hexproof/auras/equipment archetype. Also, since Theros is supposedly heavily enchantment-based, it'll hopefully get more support in the coming months.
Yeah, this place is an amazing resource. I was finding it very overwhelming going through all the Pauper constructed archetypes and then looking at ALL the commons from draft blocks on Gatherer. I'm now checking out people's cubetutors and it makes it much easier!
Yeah, I'll need to figure out which cards work and which are too dependant on support cards. For example, I agree that Spellstutter Sprite probably won't work since there aren't enough faeries, but Kiln Fiend I believe should still be a powerful inclusion in any deck that runs a fair amount of instants/sorceries. I could see him being a powerful option in a straight up mono-red deck with burn cards though he can be even more powerful in UR. I threw in Nivix Cyclops and Wee Dragonauts too
Yeah, my green is especially split at the moment. I may take out some of the mana elves for more stompy creatures after testing.
Really? I thought it would be pretty easy to pull off. Pauper has tons of solid creatures with ETB effects and things like Momentary Blink don't even need to target an ETB creature for it to be powerful since it lets you counter targeted removal.
I'm currently running 8, the others I felt are individually too subpar to justify including. Not sure if that's enough. I'll probably cut it just to get closer to my goal of 360.
Not much good reanimation but I feel like there's enough overlap of "graveyard matters" mechanics the good cards from each mechanic together will probably mesh into a strong archetype. For example, you could use Looter il-Kor (many other good ones too) to discard Sewer Shambler and then scavenge it for value, or maybe discard Crippling Fatigue for a cheaper flashback, or madness a Grave Scabbler, or ditch a creature for Stitched Drake. Maybe turn 2 cycle Twisted Abomination, turn 3 Exhume it with regeneration mana up. That's the hope at least.
Hmm yeah, maybe just cut it then.
Actually I forgot to mention that I am planning to support that archetype. I'm running 3 hexproof green dudes already and some sweet auras, plus auramancer and stuff to support an enchantment deck. I'm looking through your list now and spotted a hexproof blue dude so I'll add that too![/QUOTE]
Also trying to give some lovin' to 5color control. A little bit of sunburst, domain, stuff like that.
Finally, been thinking about adding the proliferate commons. There's tons of cards that give +1/+1 counters already in my cube. Evolve, undying, bloodthirst, unleash.. Might work out well.
Thanks for the help! I'll start balancing out the colors. Since I'm aiming for archetypes, I feel like it's in my best interest to keep things to 360 so it's easier for people to find their archetype support cards.
UBRThraximundar, Tribal ZombiesUBR
WURZedruu's Great TradesWUR
Now comes refinement. Getting the mana curve right, swapping out for better cards, balance concerns, potential archetypes, etc.
I noticed that there were bucketloads of powerful izzet cards that I left out for the sake of balance. Also a bunch more blue 3/1 flyers for 3cmc that I simply couldn't fit in yet.
UBRThraximundar, Tribal ZombiesUBR
WURZedruu's Great TradesWUR
I went blue on a 1st pick Mulldrifter and stuck around after picking up Stormbound Geist, Withdraw, and some other evasive goodies. I snapped up Kiln Fiend and Nivix Cyclops and picked up a couple sweet red burn spells to compliment it.
Ended up going 2-1 with a fun UR tempo deck. The guy who went 3-0 was Bw, focusing on Black board wipes including Pestilence and splashing white mostly for Guardian of the Guildpact.
Pestilence and Guardian were brutal by themselves, but my god, a couple games they were out at the same time and it just wasn't fair. Talk about a 2 card combo!
A couple things I noticed:
1) Red removal is stupid good. The majority of creatures in my cube are 1 toughness and so things like Flame Jab, Arc Trail, Arc Lightning are way too good. It's somewhat balanced by the fact that EVERYONE wants them as splashes so nobody's deck is too crazy.
2) Blue was overvalued this time. 3 of the 4 decks featured it. Most people went in assuming Pauper would be similar to Power Cube, so this will change I think.
3) The solitary green deck didn't do well. There's ramp but not much to ramp to. It requires more testing but maybe I need to fiddle around there.
4) Black board wipes are huge. Pestilence, Crypt Rats, and Evincar's Justice. They're so efficient in a format full of low toughness creatures. I'll keep an eye out on this too. I may need to introduce more fatties. Maybe Cloud Elemental instead of a Skywinder Drake.
Card considerations:
War Falcon. Fantastic aggro card, possibly even an efficient defender. I currently run 22 white cards that are knights/soldiers to let it attack. I'm not sure if that's enough though in a 420 cube, is it?
Cloud Elemental. Doesn't hit as hard as Skywinder Drake but is harder to remove. Might be worth it.
The rest of the Invoker cycle. I didn't see Wildheart Invoker or Dawnglare Invoker but I'm hoping they'll be good, especially Wildheart since it's a mana dump for green ramp. Maybe Bloodrite Invoker and a red one too? To make rampy control decks more viable.
UBRThraximundar, Tribal ZombiesUBR
WURZedruu's Great TradesWUR
With a heavy sigh, I did away with all (I hope) of the cutesy stuff. I feel like no matter how much I try to support fringe cards, they'll never be consistent enough to ever see play. No more Opaline Bracers or Skyreach Manta for the 5color proliferate deck that never happens. No more Basking Rootwalla or Grave Scabbler to be discarded with Wild Mongrel, Looter il-Kor, or the other sweet discard effects. No more Ethereal Armor. No more War Falcon in my white pool of 22 soldiers/knights.. okay, maybe War Falcon..
Cut:
Opaline Bracers
Skyreach Manta
Adventuring Gear
Wildheart Invoker
Dawnglare Invoker
Jackal Familiar
Tendrils of Corruption
Geth's Verdict
Fire Whip
Ethereal Armor
Spectral Flight
Gather Courage
Mark of the Vampire
Phantasmal Bear
Basking Rootwalla
Nantuko Vigilante
Arc Trail (oops!)
Hissing Iguanar
Grave Scrabbler
War Falcon
Foundry Street Denizen
Nettle Sentinel
Artful Dodge
Goblin Cohort
Mogg Conscripts
Frilled Oculus
Noble Templar
Scattershot Archer
Wall of Roots
Magma Burst
Ghostly Flicker
Crushing Vines
Added:
Assault Zeppelid
Torch Fiend
Ashmouth Hound
Suq'Ata Lancer
Jungle Weaver
Fledgling Djinn
8-man event happening friday, can't wait!
UBRThraximundar, Tribal ZombiesUBR
WURZedruu's Great TradesWUR