I don't see him specifically saying it's not weird to have an all-town mislynch.
Anyway, so far we've got two people at L-2, with a rapidly approaching deadline. For those of you who haven't voted: Which do you think is the better lynch, and why?
**** if I know right now. I honestly could see either of them as scum. KK still gives the stronger read, but I'd be comfortable voting ria. I don't think they're both scum, but I'm convinced at least one of them is.
My gut still says KK is today's lynch. He's currently at L-1; I'm willing to hammer right now if no one has objections.
I need to review or hear a good summarized case before I would vote ria, but the only thing that dissuades me from voting KK at all is "it is pretty dumb of scum to hard barn a bad case by another scum." That's basically just WIFOM though, not enough to make KK town. I am still comfortable with him being today's lynch.
The only reason I think BV is town is what I mentioned in my t/s list yesterday. He went against the overwhelming mob-mentality that both void and I were scum, when sitting back and agreeing with the crowd would allow him to watch me get mislynched. This won't mean much to anyone else until my alignment is confirmed though.
And I'm not saying they can't be scum, but the way ria wrote that reread was not townie. He gave everyone town points exclusively except for the scumspects he pulled from it and the moment someone got scum points for anything, scum points were all they got for the rest of his posts, no matter the contortions he had to do to make them fit.
As for why kaburi is one of the easy targets, its more down to process of elimination than anything he's done. Teia's practically confirmed town by Void's case on her, GM started the push back on Void, Wheat is Vig who hit who he said he would, which leaves kaburi and BV, both of whom are a little on the lurky side (which kaburi was as well in his first game, as town) plus both have made sketchy posts (though, that's BV no matter the alignment, and I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same with kaburi) and me, the popular wagon.
Didn't make the reread this weekend, too many parties
BV - I thought ria was making more sense than KK when they were arguing towards the end of the last Day, but it was getting pretty nitpicky and wordy and I didn't follow it that closely. My biggest reservation is that he does seem to be coming to wagons pretty late. I'd have to check back to MM6 for his voting pattern as town, but I think he feels the same as he did then - cautious, but tearing into people once he has a good suspect.
tl;dr - Gut says town.
Do you have a case on ria, BV?
Supports Ria-GM (GM notes there is something off but is ultimately unwilling to push very hard, could be distancing)
Didn't make the reread this weekend, too many parties
BV - I thought ria was making more sense than KK when they were arguing towards the end of the last Day, but it was getting pretty nitpicky and wordy and I didn't follow it that closely. My biggest reservation is that he does seem to be coming to wagons pretty late. I'd have to check back to MM6 for his voting pattern as town, but I think he feels the same as he did then - cautious, but tearing into people once he has a good suspect.
tl;dr - Gut says town.
Do you have a case on ria, BV?
That's exactly what I'm trying to work out. He's been throwing up red flags for me, but I want to make sure it's not some sort of subconscious OMGUS at my end.
There was a reason I asked you in particular for your read on him, and I'll explain that once I've had a chance to go over his posts more thoroughly.
And the other side of the coin, BV wants onto ria's wagon without losing face.
And I'm not saying they can't be scum, but the way ria wrote that reread was not townie. He gave everyone town points exclusively except for the scumspects he pulled from it and the moment someone got scum points for anything, scum points were all they got for the rest of his posts, no matter the contortions he had to do to make them fit.
What a load of rubbish. My points on kaburi don't align with what you're claiming. Instead of making **** up, why don't you point out those contortions or quote some posts. . . oh, because every time you do, it doesn't match what you're selling.
kaburi, can you elaborate on what specifically you see in ria's posts that reminds you of Void? Void really tipped me (and you, I think) off with his elaborate but baseless case on Teia. I don't think pushing KK is baseless, but if there are specific points of ria's that you think are stretching or something like that, let us know.
Took a rather quick sampling (since I only have moments before going to bed), but it serves to de-randomize the superposition nicely.
IMO, it's either KK-BV or Ria-GM. Nothing else really makes sense to me.
Obviously one is a red herring but I don't know which. So one of the sets must have townie explanations.
That...makes a lot of sense. I get a stronger scum read from the potential KK-BV team than the ria-GM team (more because I get a stronger scum read from BV than GM), but I can honestly see either one.
late on Teia wagon
votes BV in 1.10
4th on KK wagon
Stardust lynched while ria was voting BV
is hella absent for a while
lol how did I not get lynched in this game
Doesn't look that different from what he's doing here - he's not a super prolific voter, attempts to see his case through to the end.
Wheat, I'm going to need some explanation as to how those quotes make those people scum buddies. In particular, I think the first KK-BV looks more like scum KK knowing BV is town, I don't get what is scummy about the first "ria is scum" quote, and I also don't get why pushing kaburi into a very waffly read on ria makes me ria's buddy.
kaburi is quickly rising up my suspect ranks with the way he has "style" issues with ria, but doesn't vote him until ria blows up, and then 2 days later he is unvoting based on the assumption that BV is buddies with KK and would not bus ria on Day 3, none of which really makes sense.
I don't like how KK goaded ria. It wasn't good that ria blew up obviously, but it's consistent with what happened in MM6, when he was town.
The Pokémon scrabbled around KoolKoal, clearly excited by the prospect of rooting out another traitor. KoolKoal flapped around, enraged at being cornered. He tried to fly to safety but was dragged back down by the mob. Things were about to get very ugly when a sharp voice rang out,
"Enough!"
Noland had returned. His bushy eyebrows were locked into expression of outrage as he surveyed the room. Stepping forward, he spoke.
"It's turning into Lord of the Flygons in here. I won't stand for that." Noland once again grabbed a random Pokéball from one of the nearby crates and released the monster within.
A massive Machamp came out and flexed its many muscles. The other Pokémon could practically feel the ripple from where they stood.
"Everybody get back," said Noland, "Machamp! Use Rock Slide!"
KoolKoal, knowing he was a goner by now, simply floated a few inches off of the floor. If his eyes were capable of closing, he surely would have done so in anticipation of his fate. As it was, his compound eyes simply allowed him to watch his impending doom a hundred times simultaneously.
18
No. 637
VOLCARONA
SUN
HT
50
WT
5'03"
101.4lb
Ability
Swarm: You have no special abilities.
Move
Struggle: You have no Moves.
"Clean him up," said Noland, "and then get back to your Pokéballs. I won't tolerate any more of these shenanigans."
Noland shook his head, then stormed off of the Factory floor.
---
It is now Night 3.
You have 48 hours—not 72 hours—to submit Night actions to me. If you have an optional action you wish not to take, please let me know.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
More slowly than the previous day, the Pokémon trickled into the factory floor. Discouraged by yesterday's events, none were eager to face the reality before them.
When they saw the fainted Wheat_Grinder lying in a heap like a crumpled-up piece of tissue paper, they were even more discouraged.
As usual, Noland's brusque demeanor snapped them out of their stupor when he stormed onto the floor.
"What's this? Another one down?" He whipped out his Pokédex once again and scanned the body:
18
No. 461
WEAVILE
SHARP CLAW
HT
50
WT
3'07"
75.0lb
Ability
Pressure: Moves used against you cost an additional PP to use. (If a Move only has 1 PP left, it will still succeed.)
Move
(1PP) Blizzard: Target a player to attempt to kill them.
"Now I know for a fact that I'm the smartest person in the room," said Noland, "and not just because I'm the only person in the room, mind you, so I'm gonna tell you all that you're on thin ice. It's time to start actually getting some results here."
Noland strode off of the floor, leaving the Pokémon behind to contemplate their fate once again.
---
It is now Day 4
The deadline is 10 days, or September 16th, 11:59 EST
With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch!
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Can we have Megiddo removed from the forum forever please?
i'm pretty sure i can find your ***** online within 3 minutes
For some reason I thought KK was at L-2, I didn't mean to end the Day then. Anyway, I suppose I can listen to him now that he's dead, nobody followed through on his pariniod read in MM6
Not even 10 posts after a vote count? You're that unobservant? Or are you just trying to gain some town cred? And you're throwing out a vote in Lylo, no less.
Personally, I think it's the latter. Since we're in Lylo, I'm not dumb enough to vote without consensus from other townies first, so FOS GM
Also, since it's Lylo, we might as well mass claim to see what we can see. I propose popcorn style (scummiest player claims first, then picks the next person to claim), with GM going first.
For some reason I thought KK was at L-2, I didn't mean to end the Day then. Anyway, I suppose I can listen to him now that he's dead, nobody followed through on his pariniod read in MM6
vote ria
If you were actually listening to him you'd see he doubted his read at the end of the day & wouldn't just be plowing into me at lynch or lose.
Well I was down with lynching KK either way, and I was worried about the deadline, but I was reading back and I think the vote count in 776 was open on one of my tabs.
Anyway I'm cool to claim if ria and kaburi want to do mass claim.
I suppose we can try to do real analysis instead of just running with KK's read, if the scum team is BV/kaburi they could win off of my vote. Unvote
Also, since it's Lylo, we might as well mass claim to see what we can see. I propose popcorn style (scummiest player claims first, then picks the next person to claim), with GM going first.
I'm usually against mass claims but given the absolute need for us to lynch scum I agree, though I need to read up on the different types of mass claim (in fact that only one that I can put a name to is popcorn style).
I also support a mass claim, and I second Teia's call for GM to go first.
Ablility is Levitate, which does nothing.
Move is Grudge, which allows me to target a player at night and wipe all pp from all their moves. PM specifies this won't affect the NK. One shot.
My move is Pursuit, which is single shot but lets me track a player over consecutive nights as long as they don't die. N1 I chose Teia. I'll claim her targets if she wants me to.
Well, ria didn't specifically say I'm next, but since I'm the only one left who hasn't claimed, I'm Sceptile. Ability is Overgrow, move is Struggle, neither does anything.
-
Also, for the record, this is what we've got confirmed:
hansanator - Gallade - Double voter after being targeted + self-redirector
Arcadic - Ampharos - Vanilla town
Iso - Snorlax - One-shot cop
Jay13x - Excadrill - Bodyguard unaffected by others' abilities
KoolKoal - Volcarona - Vanilla town
Wheat_Grinder - Weavile - One-shot vig that makes moves cost additional PP
Void - Gyarados - Godfather
And here's what we've got claimed:
Gerrard's Mom - Garchomp - 50% bulletproof
kaburi - Mismagius - One-shot wipe all PP from another player's moves
BlackVise - Scolipede - Move always has priority, can steal someone's move and use it on them
rianalnn - Tyranitar - One-shot perma-tracker
Teia Rabishu - Sceptile - Vanilla town
-
Aside from GM's claim, BV's seems suspicious to me, largely due to how it doesn't seem to fit right into the setup based on the roles we've seen confirmed so far. If I had to guess, I'd say he's secretly a roleblocker. Everyone: Thoughts on his claim?
Also, what does everyone else think about GM claiming an ability with a percent success rate? Or his claim in general, really, but that part is what sticks out at me the most.
I don't know if bulletproof is the best way to categorize it, it applies separately to each action, so it could let a kill through and prevent a doc action for example.
In either case, there are clearly all kinds of crazy abilities this game. I do want to know if kaburi has used his action, but I don't think we can prove anything from actions or a setup standpoint right now. Our lynch today needs to be based on behavior.
You claimed to be able to steal their move, which seems to imply that you block them from using it, and then use it yourself. It's not "just" a redirector since it would mean that you get the cop/tracker/etc results instead of the actual user (though you'd just be turning them back on their users anyway rather than picking another target, further reducing pro-town utility).
Where? All I've found is you calling Jay's suspicion of Void's claim 'setup speculation' (536), which is obviously pointing out his incorrect terminology. Jay on the other hand picked up on his incorrect terminology but didn't realize the significance of it, or at least didn't mention it (586).
The more I look at it, that 'Eh, setup speculation' comment seems like a subtle attempt at trying to cover your scumbuddies false claim.
Jay doesn't differentiate between abilities & moves in the post you link, & I don't think he's making any difference there. Immediately after that I post this;
Eh, setup speculation. I can't say I've seen a game like this. Maybe Islander Mafia, I'd have to dig it up. There are a lot of games in this sub I haven't read, though.
Void, do you have an ability in addition to your moves?
You read the Eh line, you didn't see the question directed at Void?
Single shot, 1pp. I was going to track Iso, but then Wheat threatened to kill him. I thought of tracking Wheat, but felt that if he was legit, he might draw the NK, or if there was a 'real' vig, he might still end up dead. So I went with Teia, based on basically the same reason I early-wagoned her in MM6 – she's tough to get a read on, & a formidable player.
You claimed to be able to steal their move, which seems to imply that you block them from using it, and then use it yourself. It's not "just" a redirector since it would mean that you get the cop/tracker/etc results instead of the actual user (though you'd just be turning them back on their users anyway rather than picking another target, further reducing pro-town utility).
Ah I see your point. I've not had a hit with it, having only targeted Iso during the first Night, so I don't know if I actually block them from using it. 'Steal' was the explanation I was given in my role PM, blocking wasn't mentioned at all, so I'm working under the assumption that it's redirection rather than outright blocking.
Why not clarify with the mod rather than guess?
Is 'to get info' the only reason you targeted Iso?
That role does sit awkwardly with the rest of the setup.
hansanator - Gallade - Double voter after being targeted + self-redirector [double triggers the double vote?]
Arcadic - Ampharos - Vanilla town [non-interactive]
Iso - Snorlax - One-shot cop [investigates the cop]
Jay13x - Excadrill - Bodyguard unaffected by others' abilities [protects the bodyguard]
KoolKoal - Volcarona - Vanilla town [non-interactive]
Wheat_Grinder - Weavile - One-shot vig that makes moves cost additional PP [non-interactive]
Void - Gyarados - Godfather [non-interactive]
Gerrard's Mom - Garchomp - 50% bulletproof [non-interactive]
kaburi - Mismagius - One-shot wipe all PP from another player's moves [basically a roleblock]
BlackVise - Scolipede - Move always has priority, can steal someone's move and use it on them
rianalnn - Tyranitar - One-shot perma-tracker [if it 'steals', will track the tracker doing nothing. Otherwise might track tracker tracking]
Teia Rabishu - Sceptile - Vanilla town [non-interactive]
If it steals, it seems pretty terrible. If it just interrupts (doesn't use up the target's PP), it does bolster the cop & the tracker.
Also, what does everyone else think about GM claiming an ability with a percent success rate? Or his claim in general, really, but that part is what sticks out at me the most.
I don't buy GM's claim. It just seems weird to me.
RVS
9 - kaburi votes Iso
10 - BV votes KK
11 - I also voted KK while BV was doing so
15 - Arcadic serious votes(?) BV, Void questions it
/end RVS
29 - kaburi calls KK on his misdirected vote for hans when it was Jay that asked about acronyms
34 - Iso's vote for me. His later reasoning was that I was being overly self-conscious about BV's nath vote, but this didn't really make sense and he gave up.
KK and Iso have a town-town spat because KK was imploding
53 - Void claims to understand Iso's vote on me, Iso is "pretty sure" Void is scum next post
57 - Teia finally shows up, repeats doubt of hans's mass claim attempt, votes KK (4th on wagon since BV and I still have RVS votes on him and Wheat has voted him)
59 - Iso calls Teia scum for voting early. I guess the argument was that she waffles more as town or something?
62 - Iso calls GM/Teia/Void scum team. Void was correct, I'm not. The major +town for Teia is that Void targeted her and ria says she hasn't taken any actions, but we can't dismiss a bus attempt/ria being scum.
63 - Wheat says Teia is scum and votes her, this puts him under suspicion later
68 - Iso votes Teia as a joke?
71 - KK reads Teia as town
74 - I unvote KK, was pretty busy at this time
86 - BV asks Wheat why he voted Teia and confirms his RVS vote on KK will stay (the KK wagon is down to him and Teia now)
88 - first post of ria's I've seen, says nothing
98 - Teia throws some mud at Jay. To be fair, I didn't think he was as towny as other people said at this point either.
109 - ria corrects Wheat's overgeneralization, Iso +towns ria
111 - hans wagon is 3 town (Jay, KK, Arcadic). ria, kaburi and I are not voting, BV and Teia are both on KK
120 - Jay posts some reads. BV, kaburi, myself = "nothing of substance," ria "active lurking," Teia just "lurking" I guess
121 - Teia jumps to hans as the KK wagon has lost momentum
123 - BV questions what Teia thinks of RVS votes as scum tells
126 - Wheat reiterates reasons for voting Teia - he thinks she "flubbers around" as town but asks questions and stuff as scum, apparently this was hearsay but proved by a game they were in together
129 - ria drills hans a bit for trying to avoid behavior analysis
131 - kaburi repeats ria's point about behavior analysis vs hans
132 - Teia also repeats this point, while saying she ignored Wheat's vote because there were no reasons provided initially. She also answers BV that RVS can help get a good feel for alignment.
139 - ria provides a recap of Teia in MM6
141- Not sure what was a red herring, but apparently Teia's response to BV made him decide to vote Iso (Jay was also voting Iso and Wheat thought he was scum)
144 - BV's case on Iso is apparently based on Iso's attempt to start a wagon on me and Iso saying he thought KK, Void, and Teia could be scum.
156 - Teia sees fit to FOS Iso based on a rehash of what BV said, but keeps her vote on hans.
160 - Void finally chips in. Argues against KK's original vote on hans, tries to engage with Iso, asks if kaburi is nervous because of an unvote. He eventually decides to go after Wheat, trying to exploit the tension between him and Iso. He alleges that Teia and KK are not on the same team, a forerunner to his eventual attempt to case her. Simplest answer is that he is lying and setting up a false dichotomy. I don't understand what point he is trying to make about Iso's case on me.
167 - BV provides a chipper response to flesh out his accusations of KK being over-defensive, as requested by Void. Coached to present a better case?
170 - kaburi plays up introducing himself as the "social anxiety mod" in response to Void's question about the unvote.
173 - Iso's revised scum team is all town
186 - ria defends Teia's refusal to respond to Wheat's naked vote, accuses Jay of WIFOM
192 - Teia follows up on the Jay WIFOM
196 - kaburi puts himself on his T/S list as town and waffles on everyone else
197 - Void tries to prod Teia into defending herself more
205 - Pretty major +scum for BV, as he launches into a "case" of Iso that ends with him voting the same person as Iso, while still suggesting that Iso is scum, and also that KK is scum and Iso was trying to distance himself from KK.
212 - Teia flips her FOS from 156 from Iso to Wheat based on Iso's strong arguments against Wheat at this point
219 - Void avoids answering ria's request that Void paraphrase what Iso said about Teia's meta
222 - KK makes good point about BV jumping onto wagons
237 - kaburi votes hans because of flavor gaming and stuff, Iso joins him pretty quickly
240 - ria miscounts and votes hans, then unvotes him.
260~ Teia and kaburi both point out that Iso is flavor gaming in suggesting that Wheat could be a roleblocker, and also say how hans is bad. I don't think there is really anything here, but noting that Iso calls hans's claim "bulletproof" and Teia calls it "commuter," but she called my role "bulletproof" even though it also causes things to fail.
269 - Yeah, KK asking BV to hammer is not OMGUS
272 - kaburi claims to have a personal policy not to trust the experienced players
295 - Wheat points out how Teia's comment about looking at hans's 4 town reads is not very helpful, suggests she is scum. Void picked up on this point later in his case on Teia.
297 - Iso says ria and Void are town. Not sure why.
298 - Wheat leaves reads. Teia and I are leaning scum, BV and kaburi are neutral, ria is town
300 - Iso says kaburi is town, Teia probably town
311 - I finally get back and make a post if anyone wants to check my reads from the time. Jay, Wheat, and hans were all wrong, but BV was a scum candidate.
315 - BV's reads. Void was in the middle, I'm leaning town, Teia town. He forgot both kaburi and ria, so I guess he wasn't just ignoring scum buddies. Revises to include kaburi as town, kaburi notes that ria was forgotten.
325 - Iso suggests that scum BV would be buddies with either Teia or myself (rest were dead town), apparently based on his list, but no explanation.
327 - Iso's reads - kaburi and ria are "town, period," Teia and myself are "probably town," BV "null." Should note that Void was also "town, period."
338 - BV talks about scum chat, is somehow accusing Jay of distancing from hans, and says his posting style is minimal in response to my accusation that his list is weak.
ria puts hans to L-2, I put him to L-1
355 - Void says he was busy, ria finally makes the point that Void's wording sounded like he agreed with Iso about Teia's meta when he was actually agreeing about Wheat's play.
357 - Jay reminds us to watch Teia for her voting patterns before hammering
Day2
380 - BV pushes for info from Wheat, later (388) asks for his reads on me and KK, given Wheat's T/S reads on us that depended on Iso and hans flipping. I think he was trying to prevent Wheat from gaining town credibility and sow confusion amongst the town, since everyone mentioned there is town.
389 - kaburi wants to review BV, did this ever happen?
392 - Jay reiterates that Teia is his biggest suspect due to being 3rd on wagons
401 - Void presents a bad case on Teia. I'm looking to see if there are any hints that it could be a bus attempt following some suspicion cast on her by Jay, but Jay admitted his own case was weak and Void was stretching so much and putting out the first vote.
406 - Teia has a good response to Jay's weak case on her
410 - Void pushes Teia's lynch over BV by handwaving BV's wagon hopping, which was way worse than Teia's change from Iso to Wheat. Why is that? They were actually pretty similar, but Teia explained her shift better.
411 - The first kaburi post that really put him on my radar, where he goes to lengths to point out that he is not calling Void scum when there was plenty of evidence to do so at that point. Also, he continues to say BV is still on his scumdar with no reasons. I think it's because they are scumbuddies and kaburi wanted to keep an out to vote BV in case KK's case on him developed.
412 - ria raises the eyebrow at kaburi, KK also calls him on it
~me, Teia, and ria doubting the Void case on Teia
446 - KK presents his own case on Teia, which mostly relies on the voting issues Jay brought up along with the same read of her first Day 2 post that Void had.
450 - Even though I know KK was town, Teia looks a lot more reasonable in their exchanges.
463 - ria apparently has the same feeling about KK and Teia
465 - kaburi only pops in to say Void should claim, not commenting much on the cases
469 - kaburi finally addresses the cases, coming forward with an accusation against Void but not voting since he is at L-2. KK and BV are his other suspects, but both of them get major waffles.
474 - kaburi puts a stronger argument onto KK, the only one of his suspects that we now know is town.
480 - BV weighs in, reads Teia as town, decides to keep KK as a town read despite echoing some points that other people have brought up as +scum for KK. Also tries to dredge up the "toNight" alleged slip by Wheat that ria already addressed and which wasn't a slip.
481 - KK points out that BV is not following his case on Teia very well since BV states it is based on meta but KK has twice said it isn't.
482 - BV rebuffs KK's jab
517 - Wheat pegs Void and KK as scum, with 3rd being most likely BV, possibly ria. kaburi and Jay def town, Teia and I are probably same alignment and thus town.
519 - ria makes a somewhat suspect vote switch to KK from Void, pulling up a KK post and saying "I've had enough" when he has already posted a couple times after that post. This is just after Wheat votes KK. Later, both Wheat and ria state that the vote was independent of Wheat's vote.
532 - kaburi votes KK explicitly to get his claim
533 - ria points out that Void accused him of answering a question for me, when it was a question for BV (the "medium-sized" thing)
540 - kaburi clarifies that he voted KK to ratchet up the pressure on him and get bonus information
548 - Teia tearing into Void's argument
551 - kaburi says again he wanted a reaction from KK, which he got
554 - BV just fills in the Void vote to get him back up to L-2, says he is wary of the KK wagon because scum wouldn't barn so hard.
558 - BV gives up the "toNight" line against Wheat
631 - BV continues to doubt that KK would be so obvious in his scumminess in interaction with Void and pressing for an end to the Day.
686 - ria explains his scum read of BV
Day3
starts out with Wheat and Teia voting KK, Teia says other scum is BV or me
720 - KK's top suspect is now ria, for pointing out scummy stuff that his reread had scum evidence for ria's scumspects Pretty sure there was at least a +t for kaburi and a +s for me, I don't see the argument that he had pre-determined targets.
726 - BV asks for my read of ria
738 - I said I thought ria was late to wagons, but pretty towny. BV implies that he thinks we are scumbuddies with a case to come...
749 - kaburi waffles on ria vs KK, sets up a dichotomy, based on tone mostly.
750 - ria makes good point that he was actually the first one to ask about Void's ability, also gets carded because he is pissed off
756 - Teia also feels that ria and KK are on different teams here
757 - BV doesn't even need to reread ria, just hops onto that wagon. Teia calls him out on it.
765 - BV says his reasoning should have been obvious, but I don't know why ria being pissed off is a reason he should be scum. I also just realized that this was putting him to L-1.
773 - Wheat suggested ria was scum with me, Teia, or BV, but doesn't explain why.
774 - kaburi says KK/BV scum team, repeats Teia and ria in calling BV out on his vote for ria
797 - Wheat puts forward the "KK-BV or ria-GM" argument, I didn't get why any of his quotes supported this theory.
Day4
822 - No reason this ability couldn't be scum (it's a permanent roleblock). If kaburi is scum, it was clever to point out that his ability doesn't affect the NK. Paradoxically, that might need to be specified if there was a redirector, but it seems unlikely that the two remaining scum would have these abilities together.
823 - Also could be a scum ability, but as I said, probably not together.
Ok, that was pretty useful. Here's where I'm at:
Teia - Coming late to a couple wagons on Day 1 looked bad at first, but I can't fault anyone for voting hansanator (I think literally all the town was willing to vote him, and it may have been an all-town mislynch), and her vote on KK happened when there were still RVS votes on him. Ultimately, being Void's target and shooting down his case have me willing to consider her town for the rest of the game.
ria - His participation on Day 1 was light, but there were valid points like 109, 186, and 356. My vote on him toDay was based on what I remembered of him fighting with KK and remembering KK asked us to act on his reads after he died, but on review it's clear that KK was pushing ria's buttons and didn't have any solid points on ria, he even admitted that he might not be reading him right.
kaburi - Post 411 puts him solidly as scumbuddies with Void and BV in my book. His waffling is my main issue, such as when he called out Void but wouldn't vote him, and trying to decide between ria/KK (false dichotomy?). He called BV out in 389, and later claimed to have reread and maintained his scummy read of BV without any support, just a feeling. Classic scumbuddy move to leave an opening to move in if needed, especially when others are pointing that way (KK and I had called BV scummy by then).
BV - Has had pretty much nothing but bad votes (/barning Jay about Iso then switching abruptly to Wheat while casing Iso, coming late onto the Void wagon and just voting to keep him at L-2, jumping onto the Day3 ria wagon with no explanation), had some sketchy attempts at scumhunting (calling KK's request for BV to hammer hans "OMGUS," saying Jay was "distancing" himself from hans, the "toNight" thing with Wheat after Wheat was pretty much confirmed), and not really shown any signs that he is capable of identifying and hanging on to a reasonable case. We also have Void handwaving the case against BV in 410.
After the reread, I'm positive that BV is scum and about 80% kaburi, 20% ria for the 3rd. The only thing that makes me hesitate about BV-kaburi is setup-related and I don't think it's much of an argument, as they were pretty much the last two to claim (it was pretty clear that Teia was vanilla or maybe only had an ability).
Let me know if you need any clarification on my reads or have questions for me. I want to lynch BV today.
Based on setup, I'd say GM and BV are the sketchiest claims. Factoring in BV's fumbling over the results of his move, I'm calling shenanigans. BV is our lynch today.
And for the record, in case my coy raised eyebrow didn't make it clear, I Grudged GM last night. The results pm I got back said the move was successful. This is why I found it so interesting he was the one to ask if I'd used it.
At the point at which I could reveal my results Iso was dead, Wheat had pretty much confirmed himself as town by admitting to the vig shot and having a result to point at,
Ok, I see what you meant by null (although I have a hard time believing you misremembered a result PM with bold blue text in it), but now I have to ask – if you actually felt Wheat was confirmed town with his admission, why would you follow that up with trying to catch him out on his reads? This post doesn't read like you bought into Wheat's admission at all.
I didn't get any notification of anything, but I didn't have any PP to drain, so that doesn't necessarily mean that kaburi is lying. I just asked him if he used it because he was the only one that hadn't said whether he used his move or not.
Something about that hammer doesn't feel right. Assuming KK really does flip town, then my guess is GM/ria scumteam.
Teia: Do you still think this is the case?
I used Grudge last Night assuming we were dealing with a GM/ria scumteam. BV's fumble with the results of his claim toDay made me doubt his claim, to the point I was ready to lynch him, but having read over their exchange today I'm starting to think BV's legit and scum!ria is attempting to mislead the town into another mislynch.
That's where my gut instinct had me at the end of yesterday. I made that post largely to put that read out there in case I was nightkilled. However, BV's claim seems fairly suspicious, especially with him seemingly adding new information as he went, so he's on my radar too. Given GM's actions at the start of the day, I'm pretty well sold on him being scum.
BV: Why wouldn't you have clarified with Megs how your ability works as soon as possible? Why wait until now, well after you've used it? The responsible thing to do when faced with any ambiguity in one's role is to clear it up, after all (hell, I clarified whether I could self-target or not as the doc in MM6 on night 0, because it could and did wind up being relevant).
-
Anyway, I've already gone this far with my votecount analysis, so I might as well continue. Notably, I'm going to de-blue ria in this, because we're in Lylo and I can't afford to think of anyone as being confirmed town.
hansanator (2): Jay13x, KoolKoal
Iso (1): kaburi
KoolKoal (3): BlackVise, Gerrard's Mom, Wheat_Grinder
BlackVise (1): Arcadic
Gerrard's Mom (1): Iso
Not Voting: hansanator, rianalnn, Teia Rabishu, Void
This results in me gaining less information than I'd like. What I can say is that BV has an odd voting pattern here. The one nagging doubt I have is that I'm not sure scum!BV would double up on Wheat with Void like that, but down that path lies WIFOM so I won't put too much emphasis on it. I still don't like his vote on Void. Also, a quick skimming of his behaviour that day indicated a lot of "Void's my main scum candidate, but here's how KK's acting scummy too." I don't know if that part's just confirmation bias from my current scum read or not, though.
Other than that, GM being scum would mean he kicked off the hansanator lynch by putting him to L-1, bused his buddy, and "accidentally" hammered KK. The fact that he voted for hans isn't intrinsically damning, given hans' actions, but with those votes all taken in concert, it's easier for me to read scum motivations rather than town motivations for them, especially with the "accidental" hammer so close to a vote count.
So yeah, BV/GM scumteam is my current theory, with GM being the stronger of the two reads.
I indicated well before (714 and 796 at least) that I thought KK should be the lynch yesterday. You (Teia) and Wheat voted him in the first two posts of the Day. All we lost by my timing mistake was <24 hours of possible discussion. Hindsight is cool and all that, but do you think it would have been wise to risk running to the deadline with no lynch?
I don't really have anything to say to your accusations that I nailed one real scum and voted in the overwhelmingly Town-approved Day 1 mislynch.
BV - I summed up my thoughts on ria, have you formulated any more of a case on him? Also, have you been scum in any game other than the last MM?
Teia - What do you think of the points I brought up about kaburi's interactions with Void and BV?
I indicated well before (714 and 796 at least) that I thought KK should be the lynch yesterday. You (Teia) and Wheat voted him in the first two posts of the Day. All we lost by my timing mistake was <24 hours of possible discussion. Hindsight is cool and all that, but do you think it would have been wise to risk running to the deadline with no lynch?
You're missing the point. It's not about what we lost by you hammering when you did. It's about you claiming it was "accidental" when you hammered so shortly after a vote count. You're just building a strawman here (while digging yourself deeper), plain and simple. If you'd just hammered him as you did, without asserting you didn't mean to end the day, I wouldn't have really cared. But you slipped, and here we are.
I don't really have anything to say to your accusations that I nailed one real scum and voted in the overwhelmingly Town-approved Day 1 mislynch.
And the accusation that you intentionally primed the mislynch, then bused your buddy the next day?
Teia - What do you think of the points I brought up about kaburi's interactions with Void and BV?
It seems largely fabricated. He wasn't "waffling" in 411, since he didn't go back and forth between a scum read or not. He just stated he found Void's behaviour odd, but not odd enough to establish a scum read at that point in time. The "calling BV out" point seems contrived, too.
What are you arguing then? What do I have to gain as scum by pretending I screwed up when I was voting?
I don't even know what "priming" a mislynch means, hans would have been lynched with or without my help. And there is nothing to defend against if you just say "you bussed." I noted the posts where I felt kaburi's interactions with BV were fake, and where he was weirdly reluctant to press an obvious scum case on Void. That's the kind of thing we're looking for, not baseless accusations.
I think we're looking at kaburi/BV as the team. Teia has stated me/BV, kaburi says me/ria(?). ria, what are your reads now?
Not even 10 posts after a vote count? You're that unobservant? Or are you just trying to gain some town cred?
.
I noted the posts where I felt kaburi's interactions with BV were fake, and where he was weirdly reluctant to press an obvious scum case on Void. That's the kind of thing we're looking for, not baseless accusations.
It's like you didn't even bother to read me explain how you're stretching your argument beyond reason.
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**** if I know right now. I honestly could see either of them as scum. KK still gives the stronger read, but I'd be comfortable voting ria. I don't think they're both scum, but I'm convinced at least one of them is.
My gut still says KK is today's lynch. He's currently at L-1; I'm willing to hammer right now if no one has objections.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
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IMO, it's either KK-BV or Ria-GM. Nothing else really makes sense to me.
Obviously one is a red herring but I don't know which. So one of the sets must have townie explanations.
If anyone feels like having ideas bounced off, provide reasoning as to why I am incorrect in my assertions for as many of the following as you can:
Supports KK-BV
Supports KK-BV
Supports Ria-GM (GM notes there is something off but is ultimately unwilling to push very hard, could be distancing)
And the other side of the coin, BV wants onto ria's wagon without losing face.
Supports ria being scum.
Supports ria-GM.
Supports Ria being scum.
Supports ria-GM.
That...makes a lot of sense. I get a stronger scum read from the potential KK-BV team than the ria-GM team (more because I get a stronger scum read from BV than GM), but I can honestly see either one.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
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votes BV in 1.10
4th on KK wagon
Stardust lynched while ria was voting BV
is hella absent for a while
lol how did I not get lynched in this game
Doesn't look that different from what he's doing here - he's not a super prolific voter, attempts to see his case through to the end.
Wheat, I'm going to need some explanation as to how those quotes make those people scum buddies. In particular, I think the first KK-BV looks more like scum KK knowing BV is town, I don't get what is scummy about the first "ria is scum" quote, and I also don't get why pushing kaburi into a very waffly read on ria makes me ria's buddy.
kaburi is quickly rising up my suspect ranks with the way he has "style" issues with ria, but doesn't vote him until ria blows up, and then 2 days later he is unvoting based on the assumption that BV is buddies with KK and would not bus ria on Day 3, none of which really makes sense.
I don't like how KK goaded ria. It wasn't good that ria blew up obviously, but it's consistent with what happened in MM6, when he was town.
Vote KK
More time for schoolwork then.
(I'm not scum, good luck in lylo town.)
KoolKoal (4): Wheat_Grinder, Teia Rabishu, rianalnn, Gerrard's Mom
rianalnn (1): BlackVise
---
The Pokémon scrabbled around KoolKoal, clearly excited by the prospect of rooting out another traitor. KoolKoal flapped around, enraged at being cornered. He tried to fly to safety but was dragged back down by the mob. Things were about to get very ugly when a sharp voice rang out,
"Enough!"
Noland had returned. His bushy eyebrows were locked into expression of outrage as he surveyed the room. Stepping forward, he spoke.
"It's turning into Lord of the Flygons in here. I won't stand for that." Noland once again grabbed a random Pokéball from one of the nearby crates and released the monster within.
A massive Machamp came out and flexed its many muscles. The other Pokémon could practically feel the ripple from where they stood.
"Everybody get back," said Noland, "Machamp! Use Rock Slide!"
KoolKoal, knowing he was a goner by now, simply floated a few inches off of the floor. If his eyes were capable of closing, he surely would have done so in anticipation of his fate. As it was, his compound eyes simply allowed him to watch his impending doom a hundred times simultaneously.
VOLCARONA
SUN
101.4lb
Ability
Swarm: You have no special abilities.
Move
Struggle: You have no Moves.
Noland shook his head, then stormed off of the Factory floor.
---
It is now Night 3.
You have 48 hours—not 72 hours—to submit Night actions to me. If you have an optional action you wish not to take, please let me know.
When they saw the fainted Wheat_Grinder lying in a heap like a crumpled-up piece of tissue paper, they were even more discouraged.
As usual, Noland's brusque demeanor snapped them out of their stupor when he stormed onto the floor.
"What's this? Another one down?" He whipped out his Pokédex once again and scanned the body:
WEAVILE
SHARP CLAW
75.0lb
Ability
Pressure: Moves used against you cost an additional PP to use. (If a Move only has 1 PP left, it will still succeed.)
Move
(1PP) Blizzard: Target a player to attempt to kill them.
Noland strode off of the floor, leaving the Pokémon behind to contemplate their fate once again.
---
It is now Day 4
The deadline is 10 days, or September 16th, 11:59 EST
With 5 alive, it's 3 to lynch!
Oh wait wrong game.
(bah)
vote ria
Personally, I think it's the latter. Since we're in Lylo, I'm not dumb enough to vote without consensus from other townies first, so FOS GM
If you were actually listening to him you'd see he doubted his read at the end of the day & wouldn't just be plowing into me at lynch or lose.
Anyway I'm cool to claim if ria and kaburi want to do mass claim.
I suppose we can try to do real analysis instead of just running with KK's read, if the scum team is BV/kaburi they could win off of my vote.
Unvote
I also support a mass claim, and I second Teia's call for GM to go first.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
I agree with Moms first.
ria has already claimed I guess. kaburi next?
Ablility is Levitate, which does nothing.
Move is Grudge, which allows me to target a player at night and wipe all pp from all their moves. PM specifies this won't affect the NK. One shot.
BV next?
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
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Also, for the record, this is what we've got confirmed:
hansanator - Gallade - Double voter after being targeted + self-redirector
Arcadic - Ampharos - Vanilla town
Iso - Snorlax - One-shot cop
Jay13x - Excadrill - Bodyguard unaffected by others' abilities
KoolKoal - Volcarona - Vanilla town
Wheat_Grinder - Weavile - One-shot vig that makes moves cost additional PP
Void - Gyarados - Godfather
And here's what we've got claimed:
Gerrard's Mom - Garchomp - 50% bulletproof
kaburi - Mismagius - One-shot wipe all PP from another player's moves
BlackVise - Scolipede - Move always has priority, can steal someone's move and use it on them
rianalnn - Tyranitar - One-shot perma-tracker
Teia Rabishu - Sceptile - Vanilla town
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Aside from GM's claim, BV's seems suspicious to me, largely due to how it doesn't seem to fit right into the setup based on the roles we've seen confirmed so far. If I had to guess, I'd say he's secretly a roleblocker. Everyone: Thoughts on his claim?
Also, what does everyone else think about GM claiming an ability with a percent success rate? Or his claim in general, really, but that part is what sticks out at me the most.
In either case, there are clearly all kinds of crazy abilities this game. I do want to know if kaburi has used his action, but I don't think we can prove anything from actions or a setup standpoint right now. Our lynch today needs to be based on behavior.
I'll check through tomorrow.
Could you phone it in a little harder, BV? I even respond to a question you asked when I answered that.
Why not clarify with the mod rather than guess?
Is 'to get info' the only reason you targeted Iso?
hansanator - Gallade - Double voter after being targeted + self-redirector [double triggers the double vote?]
Arcadic - Ampharos - Vanilla town [non-interactive]
Iso - Snorlax - One-shot cop [investigates the cop]
Jay13x - Excadrill - Bodyguard unaffected by others' abilities [protects the bodyguard]
KoolKoal - Volcarona - Vanilla town [non-interactive]
Wheat_Grinder - Weavile - One-shot vig that makes moves cost additional PP [non-interactive]
Void - Gyarados - Godfather [non-interactive]
Gerrard's Mom - Garchomp - 50% bulletproof [non-interactive]
kaburi - Mismagius - One-shot wipe all PP from another player's moves [basically a roleblock]
BlackVise - Scolipede - Move always has priority, can steal someone's move and use it on them
rianalnn - Tyranitar - One-shot perma-tracker [if it 'steals', will track the tracker doing nothing. Otherwise might track tracker tracking]
Teia Rabishu - Sceptile - Vanilla town [non-interactive]
If it steals, it seems pretty terrible. If it just interrupts (doesn't use up the target's PP), it does bolster the cop & the tracker.
I don't buy GM's claim. It just seems weird to me.
...do you, now?
I have, successfully.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
So you're changing your story on your result now? After ria conveniently outlined the possible results for each role?
I have a feeling I'm going to get a LOT of use out of that smilie toDay.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
9 - kaburi votes Iso
10 - BV votes KK
11 - I also voted KK while BV was doing so
15 - Arcadic serious votes(?) BV, Void questions it
/end RVS
29 - kaburi calls KK on his misdirected vote for hans when it was Jay that asked about acronyms
34 - Iso's vote for me. His later reasoning was that I was being overly self-conscious about BV's nath vote, but this didn't really make sense and he gave up.
KK and Iso have a town-town spat because KK was imploding
53 - Void claims to understand Iso's vote on me, Iso is "pretty sure" Void is scum next post
57 - Teia finally shows up, repeats doubt of hans's mass claim attempt, votes KK (4th on wagon since BV and I still have RVS votes on him and Wheat has voted him)
59 - Iso calls Teia scum for voting early. I guess the argument was that she waffles more as town or something?
62 - Iso calls GM/Teia/Void scum team. Void was correct, I'm not. The major +town for Teia is that Void targeted her and ria says she hasn't taken any actions, but we can't dismiss a bus attempt/ria being scum.
63 - Wheat says Teia is scum and votes her, this puts him under suspicion later
68 - Iso votes Teia as a joke?
71 - KK reads Teia as town
74 - I unvote KK, was pretty busy at this time
86 - BV asks Wheat why he voted Teia and confirms his RVS vote on KK will stay (the KK wagon is down to him and Teia now)
88 - first post of ria's I've seen, says nothing
98 - Teia throws some mud at Jay. To be fair, I didn't think he was as towny as other people said at this point either.
109 - ria corrects Wheat's overgeneralization, Iso +towns ria
111 - hans wagon is 3 town (Jay, KK, Arcadic). ria, kaburi and I are not voting, BV and Teia are both on KK
120 - Jay posts some reads. BV, kaburi, myself = "nothing of substance," ria "active lurking," Teia just "lurking" I guess
121 - Teia jumps to hans as the KK wagon has lost momentum
123 - BV questions what Teia thinks of RVS votes as scum tells
126 - Wheat reiterates reasons for voting Teia - he thinks she "flubbers around" as town but asks questions and stuff as scum, apparently this was hearsay but proved by a game they were in together
129 - ria drills hans a bit for trying to avoid behavior analysis
131 - kaburi repeats ria's point about behavior analysis vs hans
132 - Teia also repeats this point, while saying she ignored Wheat's vote because there were no reasons provided initially. She also answers BV that RVS can help get a good feel for alignment.
139 - ria provides a recap of Teia in MM6
141- Not sure what was a red herring, but apparently Teia's response to BV made him decide to vote Iso (Jay was also voting Iso and Wheat thought he was scum)
144 - BV's case on Iso is apparently based on Iso's attempt to start a wagon on me and Iso saying he thought KK, Void, and Teia could be scum.
156 - Teia sees fit to FOS Iso based on a rehash of what BV said, but keeps her vote on hans.
160 - Void finally chips in. Argues against KK's original vote on hans, tries to engage with Iso, asks if kaburi is nervous because of an unvote. He eventually decides to go after Wheat, trying to exploit the tension between him and Iso. He alleges that Teia and KK are not on the same team, a forerunner to his eventual attempt to case her. Simplest answer is that he is lying and setting up a false dichotomy. I don't understand what point he is trying to make about Iso's case on me.
167 - BV provides a chipper response to flesh out his accusations of KK being over-defensive, as requested by Void. Coached to present a better case?
170 - kaburi plays up introducing himself as the "social anxiety mod" in response to Void's question about the unvote.
173 - Iso's revised scum team is all town
186 - ria defends Teia's refusal to respond to Wheat's naked vote, accuses Jay of WIFOM
192 - Teia follows up on the Jay WIFOM
196 - kaburi puts himself on his T/S list as town and waffles on everyone else
197 - Void tries to prod Teia into defending herself more
205 - Pretty major +scum for BV, as he launches into a "case" of Iso that ends with him voting the same person as Iso, while still suggesting that Iso is scum, and also that KK is scum and Iso was trying to distance himself from KK.
212 - Teia flips her FOS from 156 from Iso to Wheat based on Iso's strong arguments against Wheat at this point
219 - Void avoids answering ria's request that Void paraphrase what Iso said about Teia's meta
222 - KK makes good point about BV jumping onto wagons
237 - kaburi votes hans because of flavor gaming and stuff, Iso joins him pretty quickly
240 - ria miscounts and votes hans, then unvotes him.
260~ Teia and kaburi both point out that Iso is flavor gaming in suggesting that Wheat could be a roleblocker, and also say how hans is bad. I don't think there is really anything here, but noting that Iso calls hans's claim "bulletproof" and Teia calls it "commuter," but she called my role "bulletproof" even though it also causes things to fail.
269 - Yeah, KK asking BV to hammer is not OMGUS
272 - kaburi claims to have a personal policy not to trust the experienced players
295 - Wheat points out how Teia's comment about looking at hans's 4 town reads is not very helpful, suggests she is scum. Void picked up on this point later in his case on Teia.
297 - Iso says ria and Void are town. Not sure why.
298 - Wheat leaves reads. Teia and I are leaning scum, BV and kaburi are neutral, ria is town
300 - Iso says kaburi is town, Teia probably town
311 - I finally get back and make a post if anyone wants to check my reads from the time. Jay, Wheat, and hans were all wrong, but BV was a scum candidate.
315 - BV's reads. Void was in the middle, I'm leaning town, Teia town. He forgot both kaburi and ria, so I guess he wasn't just ignoring scum buddies. Revises to include kaburi as town, kaburi notes that ria was forgotten.
325 - Iso suggests that scum BV would be buddies with either Teia or myself (rest were dead town), apparently based on his list, but no explanation.
327 - Iso's reads - kaburi and ria are "town, period," Teia and myself are "probably town," BV "null." Should note that Void was also "town, period."
338 - BV talks about scum chat, is somehow accusing Jay of distancing from hans, and says his posting style is minimal in response to my accusation that his list is weak.
ria puts hans to L-2, I put him to L-1
355 - Void says he was busy, ria finally makes the point that Void's wording sounded like he agreed with Iso about Teia's meta when he was actually agreeing about Wheat's play.
357 - Jay reminds us to watch Teia for her voting patterns before hammering
Day2
380 - BV pushes for info from Wheat, later (388) asks for his reads on me and KK, given Wheat's T/S reads on us that depended on Iso and hans flipping. I think he was trying to prevent Wheat from gaining town credibility and sow confusion amongst the town, since everyone mentioned there is town.
389 - kaburi wants to review BV, did this ever happen?
392 - Jay reiterates that Teia is his biggest suspect due to being 3rd on wagons
401 - Void presents a bad case on Teia. I'm looking to see if there are any hints that it could be a bus attempt following some suspicion cast on her by Jay, but Jay admitted his own case was weak and Void was stretching so much and putting out the first vote.
406 - Teia has a good response to Jay's weak case on her
410 - Void pushes Teia's lynch over BV by handwaving BV's wagon hopping, which was way worse than Teia's change from Iso to Wheat. Why is that? They were actually pretty similar, but Teia explained her shift better.
411 - The first kaburi post that really put him on my radar, where he goes to lengths to point out that he is not calling Void scum when there was plenty of evidence to do so at that point. Also, he continues to say BV is still on his scumdar with no reasons. I think it's because they are scumbuddies and kaburi wanted to keep an out to vote BV in case KK's case on him developed.
412 - ria raises the eyebrow at kaburi, KK also calls him on it
~me, Teia, and ria doubting the Void case on Teia
446 - KK presents his own case on Teia, which mostly relies on the voting issues Jay brought up along with the same read of her first Day 2 post that Void had.
450 - Even though I know KK was town, Teia looks a lot more reasonable in their exchanges.
463 - ria apparently has the same feeling about KK and Teia
465 - kaburi only pops in to say Void should claim, not commenting much on the cases
469 - kaburi finally addresses the cases, coming forward with an accusation against Void but not voting since he is at L-2. KK and BV are his other suspects, but both of them get major waffles.
474 - kaburi puts a stronger argument onto KK, the only one of his suspects that we now know is town.
480 - BV weighs in, reads Teia as town, decides to keep KK as a town read despite echoing some points that other people have brought up as +scum for KK. Also tries to dredge up the "toNight" alleged slip by Wheat that ria already addressed and which wasn't a slip.
481 - KK points out that BV is not following his case on Teia very well since BV states it is based on meta but KK has twice said it isn't.
482 - BV rebuffs KK's jab
517 - Wheat pegs Void and KK as scum, with 3rd being most likely BV, possibly ria. kaburi and Jay def town, Teia and I are probably same alignment and thus town.
519 - ria makes a somewhat suspect vote switch to KK from Void, pulling up a KK post and saying "I've had enough" when he has already posted a couple times after that post. This is just after Wheat votes KK. Later, both Wheat and ria state that the vote was independent of Wheat's vote.
532 - kaburi votes KK explicitly to get his claim
533 - ria points out that Void accused him of answering a question for me, when it was a question for BV (the "medium-sized" thing)
540 - kaburi clarifies that he voted KK to ratchet up the pressure on him and get bonus information
548 - Teia tearing into Void's argument
551 - kaburi says again he wanted a reaction from KK, which he got
554 - BV just fills in the Void vote to get him back up to L-2, says he is wary of the KK wagon because scum wouldn't barn so hard.
558 - BV gives up the "toNight" line against Wheat
631 - BV continues to doubt that KK would be so obvious in his scumminess in interaction with Void and pressing for an end to the Day.
686 - ria explains his scum read of BV
Day3
starts out with Wheat and Teia voting KK, Teia says other scum is BV or me
720 - KK's top suspect is now ria, for pointing out scummy stuff that his reread had scum evidence for ria's scumspects
726 - BV asks for my read of ria
738 - I said I thought ria was late to wagons, but pretty towny. BV implies that he thinks we are scumbuddies with a case to come...
749 - kaburi waffles on ria vs KK, sets up a dichotomy, based on tone mostly.
750 - ria makes good point that he was actually the first one to ask about Void's ability, also gets carded because he is pissed off
756 - Teia also feels that ria and KK are on different teams here
757 - BV doesn't even need to reread ria, just hops onto that wagon. Teia calls him out on it.
765 - BV says his reasoning should have been obvious, but I don't know why ria being pissed off is a reason he should be scum. I also just realized that this was putting him to L-1.
773 - Wheat suggested ria was scum with me, Teia, or BV, but doesn't explain why.
774 - kaburi says KK/BV scum team, repeats Teia and ria in calling BV out on his vote for ria
797 - Wheat puts forward the "KK-BV or ria-GM" argument, I didn't get why any of his quotes supported this theory.
Day4
822 - No reason this ability couldn't be scum (it's a permanent roleblock). If kaburi is scum, it was clever to point out that his ability doesn't affect the NK. Paradoxically, that might need to be specified if there was a redirector, but it seems unlikely that the two remaining scum would have these abilities together.
823 - Also could be a scum ability, but as I said, probably not together.
Teia - Coming late to a couple wagons on Day 1 looked bad at first, but I can't fault anyone for voting hansanator (I think literally all the town was willing to vote him, and it may have been an all-town mislynch), and her vote on KK happened when there were still RVS votes on him. Ultimately, being Void's target and shooting down his case have me willing to consider her town for the rest of the game.
ria - His participation on Day 1 was light, but there were valid points like 109, 186, and 356. My vote on him toDay was based on what I remembered of him fighting with KK and remembering KK asked us to act on his reads after he died, but on review it's clear that KK was pushing ria's buttons and didn't have any solid points on ria, he even admitted that he might not be reading him right.
kaburi - Post 411 puts him solidly as scumbuddies with Void and BV in my book. His waffling is my main issue, such as when he called out Void but wouldn't vote him, and trying to decide between ria/KK (false dichotomy?). He called BV out in 389, and later claimed to have reread and maintained his scummy read of BV without any support, just a feeling. Classic scumbuddy move to leave an opening to move in if needed, especially when others are pointing that way (KK and I had called BV scummy by then).
BV - Has had pretty much nothing but bad votes (/barning Jay about Iso then switching abruptly to Wheat while casing Iso, coming late onto the Void wagon and just voting to keep him at L-2, jumping onto the Day3 ria wagon with no explanation), had some sketchy attempts at scumhunting (calling KK's request for BV to hammer hans "OMGUS," saying Jay was "distancing" himself from hans, the "toNight" thing with Wheat after Wheat was pretty much confirmed), and not really shown any signs that he is capable of identifying and hanging on to a reasonable case. We also have Void handwaving the case against BV in 410.
After the reread, I'm positive that BV is scum and about 80% kaburi, 20% ria for the 3rd. The only thing that makes me hesitate about BV-kaburi is setup-related and I don't think it's much of an argument, as they were pretty much the last two to claim (it was pretty clear that Teia was vanilla or maybe only had an ability).
Let me know if you need any clarification on my reads or have questions for me. I want to lynch BV today.
And for the record, in case my coy raised eyebrow didn't make it clear, I Grudged GM last night. The results pm I got back said the move was successful. This is why I found it so interesting he was the one to ask if I'd used it.
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Ok, I see what you meant by null (although I have a hard time believing you misremembered a result PM with bold blue text in it), but now I have to ask – if you actually felt Wheat was confirmed town with his admission, why would you follow that up with trying to catch him out on his reads? This post doesn't read like you bought into Wheat's admission at all.
I was not told. The PM just said that I successfully used Grudge on GM and that *I* have 0 pp remaining.
It could just mean that the move wasn't blocked/redirected.
@_kaburi_ on Twitter
Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Official word is that "successfully used" just means the move connected and wasn't blocked/redirected/etc.
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Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
Teia: Do you still think this is the case?
I used Grudge last Night assuming we were dealing with a GM/ria scumteam. BV's fumble with the results of his claim toDay made me doubt his claim, to the point I was ready to lynch him, but having read over their exchange today I'm starting to think BV's legit and scum!ria is attempting to mislead the town into another mislynch.
What's your take?
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Special thanks to Serrot_29 for Catbug'mrakul!
None!
Deadline is in 6 days.
... I guess I didn't really need to make this post.
That's where my gut instinct had me at the end of yesterday. I made that post largely to put that read out there in case I was nightkilled. However, BV's claim seems fairly suspicious, especially with him seemingly adding new information as he went, so he's on my radar too. Given GM's actions at the start of the day, I'm pretty well sold on him being scum.
BV: Why wouldn't you have clarified with Megs how your ability works as soon as possible? Why wait until now, well after you've used it? The responsible thing to do when faced with any ambiguity in one's role is to clear it up, after all (hell, I clarified whether I could self-target or not as the doc in MM6 on night 0, because it could and did wind up being relevant).
-
Anyway, I've already gone this far with my votecount analysis, so I might as well continue. Notably, I'm going to de-blue ria in this, because we're in Lylo and I can't afford to think of anyone as being confirmed town.
This results in me gaining less information than I'd like. What I can say is that BV has an odd voting pattern here. The one nagging doubt I have is that I'm not sure scum!BV would double up on Wheat with Void like that, but down that path lies WIFOM so I won't put too much emphasis on it. I still don't like his vote on Void. Also, a quick skimming of his behaviour that day indicated a lot of "Void's my main scum candidate, but here's how KK's acting scummy too." I don't know if that part's just confirmation bias from my current scum read or not, though.
Other than that, GM being scum would mean he kicked off the hansanator lynch by putting him to L-1, bused his buddy, and "accidentally" hammered KK. The fact that he voted for hans isn't intrinsically damning, given hans' actions, but with those votes all taken in concert, it's easier for me to read scum motivations rather than town motivations for them, especially with the "accidental" hammer so close to a vote count.
So yeah, BV/GM scumteam is my current theory, with GM being the stronger of the two reads.
I don't really have anything to say to your accusations that I nailed one real scum and voted in the overwhelmingly Town-approved Day 1 mislynch.
BV - I summed up my thoughts on ria, have you formulated any more of a case on him? Also, have you been scum in any game other than the last MM?
Teia - What do you think of the points I brought up about kaburi's interactions with Void and BV?
You're missing the point. It's not about what we lost by you hammering when you did. It's about you claiming it was "accidental" when you hammered so shortly after a vote count. You're just building a strawman here (while digging yourself deeper), plain and simple. If you'd just hammered him as you did, without asserting you didn't mean to end the day, I wouldn't have really cared. But you slipped, and here we are.
And the accusation that you intentionally primed the mislynch, then bused your buddy the next day?
It seems largely fabricated. He wasn't "waffling" in 411, since he didn't go back and forth between a scum read or not. He just stated he found Void's behaviour odd, but not odd enough to establish a scum read at that point in time. The "calling BV out" point seems contrived, too.
I don't even know what "priming" a mislynch means, hans would have been lynched with or without my help. And there is nothing to defend against if you just say "you bussed." I noted the posts where I felt kaburi's interactions with BV were fake, and where he was weirdly reluctant to press an obvious scum case on Void. That's the kind of thing we're looking for, not baseless accusations.
I think we're looking at kaburi/BV as the team. Teia has stated me/BV, kaburi says me/ria(?). ria, what are your reads now?
.
It's like you didn't even bother to read me explain how you're stretching your argument beyond reason.