Another thought, gelf: if you get a hold of Purphoros, do you think its then also worth it to make room for Avenger of Zendikar? It doesn't look like you've ever had Avenger in your list as it doesn't appear in the change log, but this might be worth running as it'll smack your opponents for a bunch of damage at once with Purphoros out.
I don't think Avenger of Zendikar is necessary. Purphoros plays well with the Cloudstone Curio loops and chain creature casting that this deck is able to generate anyway. Pretty much every creature in the deck does more than just provide a body (or several bodies), I'm not sure the Avenger of Zendikar actually does anything other than clutter up the board with creatures, which is why I've never included it.
Well first off this Primer encouraged me to build my own Animar deck so thank you for that. Mine is slightly less combo heavy, at least to where I'm not purposely trying to go infinite or anything, but I'm still pretty early in development with it as I'm relatively new to MTG and don't have all the cards.
I probably have about 10-12 cards that are suitable place holders in the deck that I know I will replace as i build up my library of cards. I'm definitely hoping to get Purphoros, Prophet, Thassa, Nylea, and probably one or two of their equipment's to throw in my deck as they'll all be upgrades even if they all don't stay in there permanently, though my meta tends to run a lot of board sweeps and some indestructible bodies will be nice. Prophet will definitely stay in no matter what though.
I'm definitely going to run Xenagos as well since I do have Domri Rade in there already and would probably run Garruk if I had him so I'm a bit more amendable to planeswalkers than you are for yours, but my play group is pretty casual and while we're all trying to win we're not trying to just out right stomp on everyone else and I enjoy planeswalkers as a mechanic.
Anyway, fantastic Primer you have here and it's helped me out a lot with my own deck.
Also from Theros, and in my testing slot, Horizon Chimera seems to compliment Psychosis Crawler, and even though it's weak; it seems like a good flash-chumper at the very least. I'll see how it plays out..
If you are desperate for the life gain I think Horizon Chimera is a good inclusion for the deck, because it can be flashed into play and the deck is good at drawing a lot of cards.
I haven't tried the Temples (of Mystery and Abandon) because I'm pretty happy with my land base at the moment. If I was starting out with the Temples or didn't want to run so many basics, I think they are a fine multiland.
A very cheap Counterspell that will stop many things that concern the deck. Worth a try.
Haven't yet acquired a Purphoros and I suspect that he will replace Psychosis Crawler, even though I don't want to cut the Crawler I'm not sure what else would be worth cutting.
I’d keep Psychosis Crawler and consider cutting one of the following.
Savage Summoning – Casting something at instant speed kind of defeats the purpose of making a spell uncounterable since being able to cast something at instant speed would give you the flexibility to play around counters anyway. Also this costs a card here, where cards like Scout’s Warning in white doesn’t.
Crop Rotation – I think there’s only one card you’re tutoring for here. While it’s nice to have Gaea’s Cradle on the field you certainly don’t need it.
Equilibrium – I realize it’s more flexible than most of the other bounce spells, but needing to pay for the activation every time does kind of suck because it’s often activated at the expensive of valuable colored mana which you need to maximize a creature chain and push into combo status. Words of Wind at least hits more than one target. Even if you can choose the target you do get more tempo there, and the ability to reuse a trigger/continue a chain.
I’d keep Psychosis Crawler and consider cutting one of the following.
Savage Summoning – Casting something at instant speed kind of defeats the purpose of making a spell uncounterable since being able to cast something at instant speed would give you the flexibility to play around counters anyway. Also this costs a card here, where cards like Scout’s Warning in white doesn’t.
Crop Rotation – I think there’s only one card you’re tutoring for here. While it’s nice to have Gaea’s Cradle on the field you certainly don’t need it.
Equilibrium – I realize it’s more flexible than most of the other bounce spells, but needing to pay for the activation every time does kind of suck because it’s often activated at the expensive of valuable colored mana which you need to maximize a creature chain and push into combo status. Words of Wind at least hits more than one target. Even if you can choose the target you do get more tempo there, and the ability to reuse a trigger/continue a chain.
Certainly food for thought.
Equilibrium is probably safest, because it is an enabler for the combo in the absence of Cloudstone Curio. Although similar to Words of Wind, it is quite a lot better at controlling the board when I need it to, where as Words of Wind will usually just allow me to clear the opponents boards completely, but at a slightly different stage of the game.
Crop Rotation offers a lot of different options. Firstly it can tutor Gaea's Cradle, which is a great source of mana in the deck, but it can also colour fix if necessary and can blank targeted land destruction, or combined with a karoo land, offer a Gaea's cradle double tap.
Savage Summoning is looking like the weakest of the three, but it offers a lot of utility also, letting me interact in phases when creatures with ETB effects usually couldn't. The +1/+1 counter is pretty relevant when flashing in Animar just before my next turn.
It's always hard at this stage of deck development, because everything is in there for a reason. It's much easier in early days of deck construction when you can still cut 'bad' cards, but after two years of development man things get tough.
Thanks for the input Lonk, I appreciate having fresh eyes to assist. In some ways not having a Purphoros, God of the Forge yet is a relief
I took my mild animar deck that was basically filled with creatures with 0 combos and have turned it into a deck very similar to yours.
Have you considered city of brass?
What would you cut for to add volcanic and trop Islands? Is wise to run less basics?
On a side note I combo'd out with Xenagos and garruk the first time I played with xen in my deck, it was surprisingly fun to watch 2 people scoop and swing at a third with a army of 2/2's.
City of Brass would probably be fine, although I am wary of the damage especially when I am untapping and retapping my lands with Palinchron it could add up and I don't run any direct ways to offset the life loss.
In my deck the lands I would probably cut for Volcanic Island and Tropical Island would be Raging Ravine and filter lands (probably Fire-lit Thicket). Because most of the land search in the deck finds basics, I like to leave the number of basic lands quite high.
With the whole discussion of planeswalkers and you thinking of cutting Psychosis Crawler I just wanted to throw Tezzeret, the Seeker in the discussion. I myself don't run him but I also don't run Fabricate, which he'd most likely replace.
I've also decided to cut Strionic Resonator again. I guess it's okay in a more casual build but in a fine tuned list it's just to clunky and slow...
Purphoros on the other hand is just as stupid as we all expected, so good in fact, that I've decided to test the other goods as well (if I can get them).
I suppose even though Tezzeret the Seeker has a higher cost, it lets you put Cloudstone Curio or Birthing Pod into play straight away (compared to Fabricate + any of the artifacts it works out as greater mana efficiency in a single turn, ignoring Animar discounts for creatures). As a disadvantage though I don't really have any artifacts to untap (Birthing Pod is good to untap though) and I can't tutor for the more expensive artifacts until I've used his +1 ability to no effect for a turn or more.
If I ran mana rocks or more cheap artifacts, I'd consider him. The versatility of Fabricate is that I can find Psychosis Crawler/Duplicant and usually play it with the discount from Animar.
In 2011 a little elemental was released as part of the inaugural Commander release. That little elemental was Animar, Soul of Elements, and thanks to that official Commander support, this deck was born.
Two years later and we're on the verge of seeing the Commander 2013 decks released with 51 brand new cards worthy of discussion (well, 25 when we consider the colour identity rules...).
Please note card links will be broken until the official release on November 1st 2013. Until then you can find the new card text here at MTG Salvation. You can also visit the full visual spoiler to see art and all on the official Wizards site.
Mechanics:
Tempting Offer is the new mechanic of Commander 2013. Designed for multiplayer politics, each Tempt card lets you do something, then gives each opponent an opportunity to do the same thing. If they accept, then you get to do something again as many times as your opponents took you up on your offer.
Tempting Offer is a sorcery mechanic, so it doesn't synergise well with Animar, but here are the choices in our colours:
Tempt with Reflections - A clone variant that generates tokens. If you opponents desire they may have one each of whatever you target, provided they don't mind you having many tokens. With all the enter the battlefield effects in Animar, this is a tempting card. Few people would be opposed to getting their own Solemn Simulacrums or Farhaven Elfs, although I doubt thoughtful players would accept the offer, given how much further ahead it would put Animar. Perhaps they would accept a Sylvan Primordial each, but I doubt it. While it adds a decision point for the Animar player and opponents, I think most of the time this would simply be a difficult to recur Clone, that doesn't benefit from Animar's cost reduction.
Tempt with Vengeance - Another token generator, this potentially creates a lot of 1/1 hasty tokens! I think this one is a slightly more difficult decision point for your opponents. Do they accept free blockers while simultaneously giving you more attackers? Unfortunately it has zero synergy with Animar unless you're running Skullclamp and/or Purphoros, God of the Forge and even then it's probably not worth it for the deck.
Tempt with Discovery - A non-basic land tutor that simultaneously lets your opponents search up their awesome lands (or strip mine). Note that the lands enter play untapped, so you can use them straight away. Probably the most playable of the tempting offers, but personally I'm going to stick with Crop Rotation for this purpose.
Curses were first introduced in the Innistrad block as a subtype of an Aura Enchantment that specifically affects a single player and, in the case of the Commander 2013 cycle, encourages all players to attack the enchanted player.
Curse of Intertia - Attacking the cursed player lets you tap or untap a permanent, which may be useful to get an extra use out of Birthing Pod or Gaea's Cradle. As an enchantment it is somewhat more versatile to common removal, so in a longer game this may clock up some advantage, however my feeling is that I would use the effect if it was on the table, but I would prefer someone else to use a slot in their deck, rather than find room for it in mine.
Curse of Chaos - Attacking the cursed player lets you discard a card and draw an new one. It's not terrible for a red loot effect, and if you were already running Rummaging Goblin or Academy Raider this might be worth considering as it is more likely to stay on the table longer.
Curse of Predation - Attacking the cursed player lets you put a +1/+1 counter on each attacking creature. This is the first ever green curse and it's a powerhouse! Comparable to Gaea's Anthem in cost, but it lets creatures get better with every attack step. I feel sorry for the person enchanted with this curse, because it really paints a big target on them. In a '+1/+1 counters matter' build I would think this is almost an auto-include and if you're planning on playing aggro Animar, this is certainly worth serious consideration.
The Rest:
Because there are relatively few new cards I'll discuss them all below.
UUUBLUEUUU
Diviner Spirit - I love the art! "If you let it hit you, we both draw cards" is an interesting effect, and we can potentially cast it for a single U. Perhaps in a very aggressive build, it could be considered? I struggle though to see when I would want this instead of many other good blue and/or green creatures that draw cards (Mulldrifter is the same cost, gives the cards straight away and is easily used more than once in a turn. Cold-Eyed Selkie has evasion and doesn't also let the opponent draw extra cards).
Djinn of Infinite Deceits - Can be brought out for cheap and exchanges our utility creatures for your better creatures! If you can give this haste it is a powerful effect. Not sure I'm going to be able to make a spot for it in my build, but it's a pretty unique effect.
Illusionist's Gambit - A great way to blow out an alpha strike that was coming your way, and instead take out an opponent. Doesn't feel like the right fit in my deck, but should be considered for controlling builds if you face against aggro decks in your meta and play multiplayer. If you're playing 1v1 and want this effect play Fog.
Order of Succession - Fun way to exchange creatures, but too risky when you're building around one creature that enables your deck (you know they will take Animar).
Tidal Force - Rounding out the 'Force' cycle (inspired by Verdant Force), Tidal Force has a heavy blue cost even though it can benefit from Animar's discount. It's effect seems less useful to enable shenanigans than similar untapping effects like Seedborn Muse or Prophet of Kruphix. While its tap down effect also feels limited because even though you're doing it each upkeep it can essentially only control one permanent of each opponent. Of all the Forces it feels the weakest. For the same cost I'd put Tidespout Tyrant back in.
True-Name Nemesis - A very hard to deal with creature, for one opponent, this is built for 1v1 and has little synergy with my deck. I'm planning on selling mine, because it is likely to make waves in eternal formats.
RRRREDRRR
From the Ashes - A 'fair' Ruination which rewards running a decent number of basic lands in your deck and punishes the 'all non-basics' mana base. Lands enter play untapped, so it could potentially act as a ritual, although ensuring you have a enough non-basics in play and basics in your library is going to be difficult for this effect. I run a fair number of basics in my mana base, so I could run this without crippling myself, but it would have to be a meta call and it would still be hard to justify casting this if I had Gaea's Cradle on the field already.
Sudden Demise - An Earthquake that only hits creatures of the chosen colour, this is potentially very powerful. Under the right conditions this is almost as good as Plague Wind. In Animar's colours there are limited mass creature removal options, and this sweeper that should let me keep most of my creatures while wiping out an opponent's is the sort of sweeper that I would consider running. In a meta with token swarm decks, this could be a very powerful addition.
Terra Ravager - Late game this could have very high power when attacking, but it is not very exciting otherwise. No evasion, no abilities, no place in my deck.
Widespread Panic - This card is brutal against top of the library tutors, and pretty hard on ramp too. The tempo this will generate will be difficult to play against if it comes down early. I won't be able to run this in Animar as I have too many search effects and I'm not looking forward to running against it.
Witch Hunt - Seems fun, but completely unpredictable. Stopping life gain may be relevant, but I'd prefer to run Stigma Lasher if I required that effect.
GGGGREENGGG
Bane of Progress - Purify on a body! The +1/+1 counters are a nice bonus, but the enter the battlefield effect is the main reason to include this. It is somewhat meta dependent, but there is always a few enchantments and artifacts that warrant destruction. There is a point of tension in my deck regarding this Bane, because my combos rely heavily on one or two enchantments or artifacts, but simultaneously this can simply destroy certain strategies, while only setting me back one or two permanents. I will consider finding a spot for it in the deck.
Naya Soulbeast - The possibility of this revealing all lands and thus entering the battlefield as a 0/0 is very real. At least it has trample, but otherwise it's not even worth running in a '+1/+1 counters matter' build, in my opinion.
Primal Vigor - I like Doubling Season and this plays a pretty good impression of it, but it's not for my deck even with the +1/+1 counter support. Any deck that is already running both Doubling Season and Parallel Lives should consider if they need another similar effect.
Restore - This is a meta dependent card, as early game it is only useful when there are fetch lands lying around in graveyards at which point it becomes a rampant growth of sorts. If your meta runs Strip Mines, other land destruction or dredge/discard, then this should have plenty of good targets. I think I would struggle to find a place for it in my deck, as I prefer my mana ramp to be on creatures, but if you're already running Life from the Loam and Crucible of Worlds then this adds another source of land recursion to the toolbox.
Spawning Grounds - Expensive to cast, but could provide a steady stream of big token creatures. Not for Animar, but potentially a good card in some decks.
x0ARTIFACTS & LANDSxx
Eye of Doom - It's disappointing that this uses doom counters and not fate counters as initially thought, although that has no impact on Animar at all. This represents a political way of dealing with problem permanents (including Hexproof ones!). Could backfire badly, so don't cast if you're already ahead!
Surveyor's Scope - Nice to include cards that help non-green decks keep up with greens ramp. This exiles when used and requires opponents to already be ahead in the land count, but it probably isn't a bad artifact for red and blue which have limited land ramp option. Fortunately Animar has access to green, so I won't be using this in my Animar deck.
Opal Palace - Gorgeous art on this land, but I'm torn about how useful it will actually be. It can generate coloured mana, so unlike some other utility lands, this one can still be useful once there are a heap of counters on Animar, although it does add a small tax if you use it as colour fixing. It can also put counters on Animar when he first enters play, which could be worth it if we were going to be paying an extra 3 or 4 mana to drop a creature for that first counter anyway. Anyway, it is pretty easy to find a land slot, so I'll definitely be trying it out.
Apart from the new cards, there were also a lot of useful reprints so I'm certainly glad I have arranged to get the Commander 2013 decks. Opal Palace is an easy include, and Bane of Progress will probably get a test run. Other decks of mine will also pick up plenty of goodies.
Any of the new cards or reprints going to make it into your Animar deck?
I'm in doubt between use Crop Rotation and Sylvan Scrying. In your opinion, because you prefer to use Crop Rotation?
Have you thought about using Sphinx of Lost Truths or Myojin of Seeing Winds as a source of draw? What do you think of them? (I use dual lands enough so I would not be too much trouble)
Other opinion, have you thought to use Spellskite instead of Willbender? What do you think?
I prefer Crop Rotation because it is cheaper to cast, is instant and puts the land directly into play (doesn't use your land drop). As an instant it can perform tricks against land destruction, such as finding a karoo land to bounce your Gaea's Cradle, or simply sacrificing the targeted land. It is important to note that because Crop Rotation is almost always used to find a land that produces at least 2 mana, that the sacrifice cost and card disadvantage is offset. Also in this deck the difference between 1 and 2 mana can be noticeable in the early game. That said, if you don't have Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying is still a fine tutor that can fulfill the primary goal of finding Gaea's Cradle.
Both are excellent sources of card draw, and benefit from Animar's discount, although at triple U there may be times that you wish they weren't so colour intensive. I would lean towards the Sphinx because you always have the option of not paying the kicker cost and still getting to filter 3 draws. That said there are many good card draw options available in Animar's colours depending on how you want to focus your deck.
Willbender is far superior to Spellskite in my opinion. Willbender plays a part in the Cloudstone Curio infinite loop combo as a morph creature. Willbender is also able to protect itself by redirecting spells away from itself and can redirect spells cast at players (such as Identity Crisis or Time Stretch). Finally as an undefined morph creature, people will play around Willbender even when a different morph creature is on the board. Spellskite isn't nearly as versatile and is more likely to die to an effect that Willbender could have redirected to an opponent. The only advantage of Spellskite is that it is 'free' (2 life) to activate it's ability.
It's a great creature! If you're using a lot of cascade effects, you do need to consider the low casting cost spells you're running, as some are not at all desirable to cascade into. However if you're willing to modify the deck around the cascade ability, it definitely plays well with Animar. I should probably add this card to my wishlist.
I think I would use the Sphinx of Lost Truths because it is guaranteed to let you see 3 cards and gives flexible casting options. It is more likely to be useful when Animar is not on the field.
Myojin of Seeing Winds is likely to draw a lot more cards (at first I didn't realise it counted lands!) but is more likely to get stuck in your hand if you can't keep Animar alive. I guess the UUU cost is offset by the ability to draw the cards on the next turn, and being indestructible means it is difficult to remove so it's likely to survive the turn and let you draw cards with all your mana available.
I would suggest trying the Sphinx first, and if the draw is too small or too conditional for your liking, then give Myojin a go.
About the Karoo Lands, I am doubt to use them: do you think they give a lot of advantage in this engine? Because I think they may be a little late your game ...
I was thinking to use only one entering untapped lands (except Mosswort Bridge), and the failure of mana I think it would be okay if I used: dual land, land shock, fetch land, land filter, check land, land pain ...
I'm still new here and I have to learn to post decks
In this deck I have avoided creatures that tap for mana, because usually I find them too slow and too prone to be removed before they provide sufficient advantage. My meta has a lot of Wrath of God effects and so there is little advantage in using a creature to then cast further creatures, as all will be lost to the inevitable sweeper. This is why I prefer Farhaven Elf and Wood Elves because they put out lands that are generally more resilient. Also Farhaven Elf can be abused using a bounce engine (Cloudstone Curio) to ramp out multiple lands. There is usually no advantage to bouncing mana dorks.
Somberwald Sage and Bloom Tender are powerful ramp creatures (if they survive a turn), I just feel they have less synergy with the deck. They do become a lot stronger if you are able to reliably give them haste.
I've evolved this deck over a long period of time. It started out as an Intent, the Dreamer (before Animar existed) deck based around free spells. Now it's full on combo, built to generate infinite mana and storm then draw the whole deck or cast every spell with Mind's Desire. I did have Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite for awhile but for some reason people hated that more than me casting every spell in my deck
The deck is certainly capable of going 'all-in' on an Animar but has plenty of tools to go infinite in the cases where your Animar gets dealt with.
Hopefully this will provide you guys with some new ideas and you'll give me some feedback so I can get find new ideas as well! I know there are some seemingly weird card choices and would love to answer any questions that might arise.
SolarEx, that seems like a quite different approach to Animar. It's pretty obvious from your creature-to-spell ratio that the deck wasn't initially conceived with Animar in mind. What advantage does Animar have over Riku?
I'd also suggest putting that decklist into its own thread, as it definitely seems interesting enough to generate its own discussion.
Between Sphinx of Lost Truths or Etherium-Horn Sorcerer I think the cascade is stronger than the card draw. With a full Animar discount Etherium-Horn Sorcerer could provide you with two bodies on the field worth up to 9 mana, so it's more efficient than the Sphinx. If you're planning on using cascade you should consider how some spells become less useful. Reactive spells (counterspell) in general and spells with conditional targets tend to be poor cascade results.
Cloud of Faeries is the weakest of the untap lands creatures (unless you're playing with Aluren) so I don't think you're missing much.
Voidmage Husher is usually great value as it can mess with a huge number of abilities. For example can be used to counter fetch land search and Planeswalker abilities. It also has the advantage of self bouncing if you choose to do so to put extra counters on Animar. It could be considered meta dependent and it isn't essential to any combos or the running of the deck, but it does a surprising amount of work in a game if you find it in your hand.
Nullstone Gargoyle offers great protection from removal spells, but it is high on the curve and also isn't essential for any combos. I have a lot of fun playing it, but it's something that could be subbed out for other high cost/high impact effects.
Great thread, Animar is by far the best general in EDH. Here's my take on the deck.
@SolarEx: Thank you
That is certainly a different take on Animar. I can see how some of the interactions work, but I'd be interested if you took a moment to explain some of the synergies in more detail. When you decide to combo out, what cards do you consider highest priority? I'm also interested in your card draw as you don't seem to run the same creatures-become-cantrips engines I do.
I notice that you're running Izzet Chronarch. Why not run Mnemonic Wall instead? Has the same ETB effect, but can have it's cost reduced by Animar to U instead of UR.
stuff
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
I don't but I can already do that without Avenger of Zendikar.
It's a good creature, it just doesn't have enough synergy with the rest of the deck in my opinion.
I probably have about 10-12 cards that are suitable place holders in the deck that I know I will replace as i build up my library of cards. I'm definitely hoping to get Purphoros, Prophet, Thassa, Nylea, and probably one or two of their equipment's to throw in my deck as they'll all be upgrades even if they all don't stay in there permanently, though my meta tends to run a lot of board sweeps and some indestructible bodies will be nice. Prophet will definitely stay in no matter what though.
I'm definitely going to run Xenagos as well since I do have Domri Rade in there already and would probably run Garruk if I had him so I'm a bit more amendable to planeswalkers than you are for yours, but my play group is pretty casual and while we're all trying to win we're not trying to just out right stomp on everyone else and I enjoy planeswalkers as a mechanic.
Anyway, fantastic Primer you have here and it's helped me out a lot with my own deck.
WBRTariel, Reckoner of SoulsWBR
URGAnimar, Soul of ElementsURG
WWWMikaeus, the LunarchWWW
Also from Theros, and in my testing slot, Horizon Chimera seems to compliment Psychosis Crawler, and even though it's weak; it seems like a good flash-chumper at the very least. I'll see how it plays out..
I haven't tried the Temples (of Mystery and Abandon) because I'm pretty happy with my land base at the moment. If I was starting out with the Temples or didn't want to run so many basics, I think they are a fine multiland.
If you test them, please let me know how they go
Out:
- Mad Prophet
In:
+ Swan Song
A very cheap Counterspell that will stop many things that concern the deck. Worth a try.
Haven't yet acquired a Purphoros and I suspect that he will replace Psychosis Crawler, even though I don't want to cut the Crawler I'm not sure what else would be worth cutting.
Savage Summoning – Casting something at instant speed kind of defeats the purpose of making a spell uncounterable since being able to cast something at instant speed would give you the flexibility to play around counters anyway. Also this costs a card here, where cards like Scout’s Warning in white doesn’t.
Crop Rotation – I think there’s only one card you’re tutoring for here. While it’s nice to have Gaea’s Cradle on the field you certainly don’t need it.
Equilibrium – I realize it’s more flexible than most of the other bounce spells, but needing to pay for the activation every time does kind of suck because it’s often activated at the expensive of valuable colored mana which you need to maximize a creature chain and push into combo status. Words of Wind at least hits more than one target. Even if you can choose the target you do get more tempo there, and the ability to reuse a trigger/continue a chain.
Oh Rider, my heart will go on...
Certainly food for thought.
Equilibrium is probably safest, because it is an enabler for the combo in the absence of Cloudstone Curio. Although similar to Words of Wind, it is quite a lot better at controlling the board when I need it to, where as Words of Wind will usually just allow me to clear the opponents boards completely, but at a slightly different stage of the game.
Crop Rotation offers a lot of different options. Firstly it can tutor Gaea's Cradle, which is a great source of mana in the deck, but it can also colour fix if necessary and can blank targeted land destruction, or combined with a karoo land, offer a Gaea's cradle double tap.
Savage Summoning is looking like the weakest of the three, but it offers a lot of utility also, letting me interact in phases when creatures with ETB effects usually couldn't. The +1/+1 counter is pretty relevant when flashing in Animar just before my next turn.
It's always hard at this stage of deck development, because everything is in there for a reason. It's much easier in early days of deck construction when you can still cut 'bad' cards, but after two years of development man things get tough.
Thanks for the input Lonk, I appreciate having fresh eyes to assist. In some ways not having a Purphoros, God of the Forge yet is a relief
Have you considered city of brass?
What would you cut for to add volcanic and trop Islands? Is wise to run less basics?
On a side note I combo'd out with Xenagos and garruk the first time I played with xen in my deck, it was surprisingly fun to watch 2 people scoop and swing at a third with a army of 2/2's.
In my deck the lands I would probably cut for Volcanic Island and Tropical Island would be Raging Ravine and filter lands (probably Fire-lit Thicket). Because most of the land search in the deck finds basics, I like to leave the number of basic lands quite high.
I've also decided to cut Strionic Resonator again. I guess it's okay in a more casual build but in a fine tuned list it's just to clunky and slow...
Purphoros on the other hand is just as stupid as we all expected, so good in fact, that I've decided to test the other goods as well (if I can get them).
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
If I ran mana rocks or more cheap artifacts, I'd consider him. The versatility of Fabricate is that I can find Psychosis Crawler/Duplicant and usually play it with the discount from Animar.
Sorry to hear Strionic Resonator didn't work out for the deck.
In 2011 a little elemental was released as part of the inaugural Commander release. That little elemental was Animar, Soul of Elements, and thanks to that official Commander support, this deck was born.
Two years later and we're on the verge of seeing the Commander 2013 decks released with 51 brand new cards worthy of discussion (well, 25 when we consider the colour identity rules...).
Please note card links will be broken until the official release on November 1st 2013. Until then you can find the new card text here at MTG Salvation. You can also visit the full visual spoiler to see art and all on the official Wizards site.
Mechanics:
Tempting Offer is the new mechanic of Commander 2013. Designed for multiplayer politics, each Tempt card lets you do something, then gives each opponent an opportunity to do the same thing. If they accept, then you get to do something again as many times as your opponents took you up on your offer.
Tempting Offer is a sorcery mechanic, so it doesn't synergise well with Animar, but here are the choices in our colours:
Curses were first introduced in the Innistrad block as a subtype of an Aura Enchantment that specifically affects a single player and, in the case of the Commander 2013 cycle, encourages all players to attack the enchanted player.
The Rest:
Because there are relatively few new cards I'll discuss them all below.
UUU BLUE UUU
RRR RED RRR
GGG GREEN GGG
x0 ARTIFACTS & LANDS xx
Apart from the new cards, there were also a lot of useful reprints so I'm certainly glad I have arranged to get the Commander 2013 decks. Opal Palace is an easy include, and Bane of Progress will probably get a test run. Other decks of mine will also pick up plenty of goodies.
Any of the new cards or reprints going to make it into your Animar deck?
I'm in doubt between use Crop Rotation and Sylvan Scrying. In your opinion, because you prefer to use Crop Rotation?
Have you thought about using Sphinx of Lost Truths or Myojin of Seeing Winds as a source of draw? What do you think of them? (I use dual lands enough so I would not be too much trouble)
Other opinion, have you thought to use Spellskite instead of Willbender? What do you think?
About creatures with cascade, what do you think about using Etherium-Horn Sorcerer?
Thks
I prefer Crop Rotation because it is cheaper to cast, is instant and puts the land directly into play (doesn't use your land drop). As an instant it can perform tricks against land destruction, such as finding a karoo land to bounce your Gaea's Cradle, or simply sacrificing the targeted land. It is important to note that because Crop Rotation is almost always used to find a land that produces at least 2 mana, that the sacrifice cost and card disadvantage is offset. Also in this deck the difference between 1 and 2 mana can be noticeable in the early game. That said, if you don't have Crop Rotation, Sylvan Scrying is still a fine tutor that can fulfill the primary goal of finding Gaea's Cradle.
Sphinx of Lost Truths and Myojin of Seeing Winds:
Both are excellent sources of card draw, and benefit from Animar's discount, although at triple U there may be times that you wish they weren't so colour intensive. I would lean towards the Sphinx because you always have the option of not paying the kicker cost and still getting to filter 3 draws. That said there are many good card draw options available in Animar's colours depending on how you want to focus your deck.
Spellskite vs. Willbender:
Willbender is far superior to Spellskite in my opinion. Willbender plays a part in the Cloudstone Curio infinite loop combo as a morph creature. Willbender is also able to protect itself by redirecting spells away from itself and can redirect spells cast at players (such as Identity Crisis or Time Stretch). Finally as an undefined morph creature, people will play around Willbender even when a different morph creature is on the board. Spellskite isn't nearly as versatile and is more likely to die to an effect that Willbender could have redirected to an opponent. The only advantage of Spellskite is that it is 'free' (2 life) to activate it's ability.
Etherium-Horn Sorcerer:
It's a great creature! If you're using a lot of cascade effects, you do need to consider the low casting cost spells you're running, as some are not at all desirable to cascade into. However if you're willing to modify the deck around the cascade ability, it definitely plays well with Animar. I should probably add this card to my wishlist.
I'm starting to put together a decklist Animar ...
Another question is about Sphinx of Lost Truths and Myojin of Seeing Winds: I already use all the sources you used to draw the list except for Time Spiral (because I do not play with Psychosis Crawler) and still use Sphinx of Uthuun and Sea Gate Oracle. I would like to exchange Shardless Agent for a power draw (that is creature) then these two criatuaras was thinking, what is your guess in this case?
Thanks
Myojin of Seeing Winds is likely to draw a lot more cards (at first I didn't realise it counted lands!) but is more likely to get stuck in your hand if you can't keep Animar alive. I guess the UUU cost is offset by the ability to draw the cards on the next turn, and being indestructible means it is difficult to remove so it's likely to survive the turn and let you draw cards with all your mana available.
I would suggest trying the Sphinx first, and if the draw is too small or too conditional for your liking, then give Myojin a go.
About the Karoo Lands, I am doubt to use them: do you think they give a lot of advantage in this engine? Because I think they may be a little late your game ...
I was thinking to use only one entering untapped lands (except Mosswort Bridge), and the failure of mana I think it would be okay if I used: dual land, land shock, fetch land, land filter, check land, land pain ...
I'm still new here and I have to learn to post decks
Thanks
Somberwald Sage and Bloom Tender are powerful ramp creatures (if they survive a turn), I just feel they have less synergy with the deck. They do become a lot stronger if you are able to reliably give them haste.
I like the karoo lands because of the way they interact with Cloud of Faeries, Peregrine Drake and Palinchron. If you have access to the old dual lands (Taiga, Volcanic Island, Tropical Island) then you probably don't need the karoos, although they do lend themselves to a few tricks (such as with Crop Rotation, or Oracle of Mul Daya getting an additional Gaea's Cradle activation).
I was thinking of maybe changing Shardless Agent by Sphinx of Lost Truths or Etherium-Horn Sorcerer, you believe to be a good trade? And between Sphinx and Etherium, which you believe to be the best deck?
PS: As I still can not post the deck here, take based list like yours (my must have ~ 8 cards non lands different)
I'm not playing with Nullstone Gargoyle, Cloud of Faeries or Voidmage Husher, you believe that they are sorely lacking in the deck?
Fabricate I use, but I have now seems to be not so useful, what do you think of it?
Thank you!
1x Animar, Soul of Elements
Creature (35)
1x Acidic Slime
1x Azusa, Lost but Seeking
1x Body Double
1x Cloud of Faeries
1x Coiling Oracle
1x Deadeye Navigator
1x Eternal Witness
1x Fauna Shaman
1x Fierce Empath
1x Glen Elendra Archmage
1x Imperial Recruiter
1x Izzet Chronarch
1x Jin-Gitaxias, Core Augur
1x Kederekt Leviathan
1x Magus of the Candelabra
1x Magus of the Future
1x Mulldrifter
1x Myojin of Seeing Winds
1x Oracle of Mul Daya
1x Palinchron
1x Peregrine Drake
1x Phyrexian Metamorph
1x Sakura-Tribe Elder
1x Sea Gate Oracle
1x Solemn Simulacrum
1x Sylvan Primordial
1x Sylvan Ranger
1x Teferi, Mage of Zhalfir
1x Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
1x Urabrask the Hidden
1x Venser, Shaper Savant
1x Vorinclex, Voice of Hunger
1x Wood Elves
1x Woodfall Primus
1x Zhur-Taa Ancient
1x Fact or Fiction
1x Frantic Search
1x Intuition
1x Pact of Negation
1x Snap
1x Turnabout
Artifact (2)
1x Cloudstone Curio
1x Memory Jar
Land (35)
1x Breeding Pool
1x Cascade Bluffs
1x Command Tower
1x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Flooded Grove
7x Forest
1x Gaea's Cradle
1x Gruul Turf
7x Island
1x Izzet Boilerworks
1x Misty Rainforest
3x Mountain
1x Scalding Tarn
1x Simic Growth Chamber
1x Steam Vents
1x Stomping Ground
1x Taiga
1x Temple of the False God
1x Tropical Island
1x Volcanic Island
1x Wooded Foothills
1x Cultivate
1x Explosive Vegetation
1x Gamble
1x Kodama's Reach
1x Mind's Desire
1x Nostalgic Dreams
1x Regrowth
1x Rude Awakening
1x Skyshroud Claim
1x Time Spiral
1x Time Stretch
1x Time Warp
1x Tooth and Nail
1x Weird Harvest
1x Wheel of Fortune
Enchantment (5)
1x Exploration
1x Heartbeat of Spring
1x Mana Flare
1x Survival of the Fittest
1x Sylvan Library
Planeswalker (1)
1x Jace, the Mind Sculptor
I've evolved this deck over a long period of time. It started out as an Intent, the Dreamer (before Animar existed) deck based around free spells. Now it's full on combo, built to generate infinite mana and storm then draw the whole deck or cast every spell with Mind's Desire. I did have Kiki-Jiki/Pestermite for awhile but for some reason people hated that more than me casting every spell in my deck
The deck is certainly capable of going 'all-in' on an Animar but has plenty of tools to go infinite in the cases where your Animar gets dealt with.
Hopefully this will provide you guys with some new ideas and you'll give me some feedback so I can get find new ideas as well! I know there are some seemingly weird card choices and would love to answer any questions that might arise.
I'd also suggest putting that decklist into its own thread, as it definitely seems interesting enough to generate its own discussion.
GWU Rafiq
RWB Zurgo
WBG Ghave
WUB Oloro
WBR Kaalia (Archived)
My Blog, currently working on series about my custom set Cazia.
Steam Trades - I play Dota 2, CS:GO, TF2, and trade cards heavily. Add me if you like.
@armando_zuffi: You're welcome
Between Sphinx of Lost Truths or Etherium-Horn Sorcerer I think the cascade is stronger than the card draw. With a full Animar discount Etherium-Horn Sorcerer could provide you with two bodies on the field worth up to 9 mana, so it's more efficient than the Sphinx. If you're planning on using cascade you should consider how some spells become less useful. Reactive spells (counterspell) in general and spells with conditional targets tend to be poor cascade results.
Cloud of Faeries is the weakest of the untap lands creatures (unless you're playing with Aluren) so I don't think you're missing much.
Voidmage Husher is usually great value as it can mess with a huge number of abilities. For example can be used to counter fetch land search and Planeswalker abilities. It also has the advantage of self bouncing if you choose to do so to put extra counters on Animar. It could be considered meta dependent and it isn't essential to any combos or the running of the deck, but it does a surprising amount of work in a game if you find it in your hand.
Nullstone Gargoyle offers great protection from removal spells, but it is high on the curve and also isn't essential for any combos. I have a lot of fun playing it, but it's something that could be subbed out for other high cost/high impact effects.
Fabricate is well worth it as it finds combo pieces (Cloudstone Curio, Birthing Pod, Psychosis Crawler), removal (Duplicant, Steel Hellkite) and can even offer mana fixing (Solemn Simulacrum). Phyrexian Metamorph is also good target which provides a lot of flexibility.
@SolarEx: Thank you
That is certainly a different take on Animar. I can see how some of the interactions work, but I'd be interested if you took a moment to explain some of the synergies in more detail. When you decide to combo out, what cards do you consider highest priority? I'm also interested in your card draw as you don't seem to run the same creatures-become-cantrips engines I do.
I notice that you're running Izzet Chronarch. Why not run Mnemonic Wall instead? Has the same ETB effect, but can have it's cost reduced by Animar to U instead of UR.