do we really need multiple places to discuss one deck
Not sure what you mean, this is my personal list.
I wasn't trying to piggy back on the other thread, I was just contributing and found your comments/input interesting.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Ah I didnt mean to sound like a dick.
I dont think of it as piggybacking but a community effort to make an archtype better.
On that note, since JMDT has been gone for so long now I think im going to remake the primer for more deck discussion. You'll not only be welcome but encouraged to post your list there. Or i can just link to it in the OP.
I know, I just play these cards in other decks and try to limit the cards I reuse. Living Death seems so good here though, uhg.
I also know that I would probably go straight for Rune-Scarred Demon every game, and I don't want the deck to play out the same way every game.
I think that the Living Death combo will be something I add later on depending on the competitiveness of the deck in my meta.
Three words, Altar of Dementia.
This card is the best card in this deck. If I'd ask anyone from my playgroup who has played or seen me play my list every one of them would say this card is the best card in the list.
Anyways, something I found is consistency wins. Unless I counted incorrectly you run 36 lands? I personally run 42. Yes, that's not a typo I ran 37 and lost the early game because I'd miss land drops 4-7. You can't miss those.
Rune-Scarred Demon is the best card in the deck.
You can't lose with it.
If you're running 42 lands you dont have enough mana rocks, card draw, or don't mulligan aggressively enough.
Three words, Altar of Dementia.
This card is the best card in this deck. If I'd ask anyone from my playgroup who has played or seen me play my list every one of them would say this card is the best card in the list..
To be honest I am not thrilled by it. I dislike that it requires me to have a creature to sac, and I feel there are better sac outlets.
I already have a lot of ways to get stuff into the yard right now, but I might end up cutting Mindcrank for it eventually.
Only about a fifth of the deck has been constructed so far, and I am presently unable to use cockatrice.
Between Partial Paris, draw, tutors, and mana doublers I should rarely ever get mana screwed. If I end up adding rocks to this deck it will be because of MLD, but I try not to over-extend so I'm doubting it will be a huge issue. My meta is also not that competitive so it's not like I'm going to get destroyed without the extra acceleration. I've done countless testing of mana bases with several different decks and 36 just seems to be the number or lands that works for me; I can't stand having more or less than that.
Rune-Scarred Demon is the best card in the deck.
You can't lose with it.
If you're running 42 lands you dont have enough mana rocks, card draw, or don't mulligan aggressively enough.
Well I mean, you canst rune scarred finding phyrexian altar, sac demon, chain in demon, find living death, sac everyone for mana, cast living death, rune scarred etb trigger finds XHD, cast XHD, get back living death, cast living death.
With just chainer and rune scarred you win.
Its just a matter of having enough creatures/mana in play.
updated my list, its over in the chainer primer if you want to take a look.
To be honest I am not thrilled by it. I dislike that it requires me to have a creature to sac, and I feel there are better sac outlets.
I already have a lot of ways to get stuff into the yard right now,
I'm lost, how is Phyrexian Alter differ from Alter of Dem as far as needing a creature? I'm also not worried about MY graveyard , I fill up my opponents if I'm not winning with it.
Rune-Scarred Demon is the best card in the deck.
You can't lose with it.
If you're running 42 lands you dont have enough mana rocks, card draw, or don't mulligan aggressively enough.
I took all of the rocks out. Too many times id keep 2 lands and 2 rocks and have them destroyed via sweeper. Them I'd get too far behind. So basically I took the rocks out for lands and I've never looked back. Don't get me wrong, I won my fair share before I switched. But my wins doubled after I made the change. You do not want to miss land drops with this deck.
Yes Rune-Scar is pretty awesome. But Alter wins you the game without having to combo out. And feeds everyone's graveyard for sick Sepulchral Primordial plays. When you say it's not good enough to run then you obviously haven't been using correctly or haven't tested it at all. Altar is also a win con by itself.
I also do not run Phyrexian Alter because of that exact fact that that combo exsists. I run zero infinate combos because I'm sick of winning like that. Not saying that it's bad to do that as it is an awesome finish we just got sick of so many games winning via combo so I challenged myself to build a list that doesn't.
I must point out that my meta is fairly competitive and most people try not to run combos, (for the most part) by doing this it creates a much more fun environment.
I'm lost, how is Phyrexian Alter differ from Alter of Dem as far as needing a creature? I'm also not worried about MY graveyard , I fill up my opponents if I'm not winning with it.
I'm confused, I didn't say anything about Phyrexian Alter or limiting myself to my yard.
Throst was the one who commented on Phyrexian Alter.
I took all of the rocks out. Too many times id keep 2 lands and 2 rocks and have them destroyed via sweeper. Them I'd get too far behind. So basically I took the rocks out for lands and I've never looked back. Don't get me wrong, I won my fair share before I switched. But my wins doubled after I made the change. You do not want to miss land drops with this deck.
You should always have 3-4 lands in your opening hand if you are using Partial Paris. If I am missing land drops in one of my decks I add more draw, it's much better than being flooded imo. It also doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal if you are running mana doublers and tutors tutors to get them.
I would even argue that it is not always advantageous to play every land drop as after a certain point mana is redundant and you are over-extending into mass land destruction. The real benefit of rocks, is not to ramp imo, but to protect you from this. I wouldn't play them all at once either, I would be holding onto a few of them in case someone pops an armageddon. I believe Throst uses Salvaging Station and Trading Post to recur his rocks.
My meta is not so competitive, and if lands are wrathed it's usually only once or twice a game. I'm going to see if I can get away with relying on doublers and playing conservatively; if not I will add rocks.
@Throst, your list looks really cool. I think there are a lot of things you are doing, that I may eventually do if I decide to make the deck more competitive.
Was finally able to get some time in on Cockatrice and get a better feel of the deck. I cut a lot of stuff that seemed to be unfocused and added more stax elements. The deck plays very grindy, and sometimes the ways I interact with my opponents' yards is complicated. But, it has been pretty fun so far.
I was unfortunately unable to test out Pestilence, but I am hoping it's as good as it looks on paper.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
So, after further testing it seemed every few games I was getting stalled out around 4 mana. I was also having trouble keeping up with ramp decks. I looked backed at my list and realized that a lot of my mana utility and draw was 4 mana + or required me to sac a creature. I added Ancient Tomb, Sol Ring, and Solemn Simulacrum; this seems to have fixed the problem. I also cut my haste stuff and warhammer, as I never wanted it when I drew it.
In other news, I had some great matched on cockatrice. One of which was against a really good chainer player. We were going back and forth; he reanimated my Braids twice, and I tutored for Yawgmoth's Will so I could Enslave his Chainer. I dropped a Sadistic Hypnotist in an attempt to dump his hand and in response he cycled Decree of Pain. There were just so many great plays.
He and a Valakult player got me down to about 8 life, then I grabbed Kokusho and put them to 7 and 2. I was about to go grab Exsanguinate and finish them off when Valakult guy scapeshifted and killed the table. I think the deck is almost good enough to finish.
I'm not thrilled about It that Betrays; I want a big dumb beater that I can reanimate and use as an alternate wincon, but I wish there were a better option.
Hey how has the deck been playing? I've made up my own Chained deck, always been a fan of him since Torment. Have you tried Abhorrent Overlord? Mono-black gets huge devotion, and he adds to your sac outlets, smokestack, as well as chump blockers so you don't lose more life.
How has games been going for you? Mine mostly end up as a sort of blink/flicker deck. Looping creatures in and out of the graveyard.
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Sorry about any spelling mistakes, I'm typing on a phone most of the time.
Hey how has the deck been playing? I've made up my own Chained deck, always been a fan of him since Torment. Have you tried Abhorrent Overlord? Mono-black gets huge devotion, and he adds to your sac outlets, smokestack, as well as chump blockers so you don't lose more life.
How has games been going for you? Mine mostly end up as a sort of blink/flicker deck. Looping creatures in and out of the graveyard.
Overlord can be really good. I think I chose to use Grave Titan instead because of my curve. My deck is very much a control deck. I stall the game by setting up engines, tutoring for answers, and using my opponents' creatures against them. Then I kill everyone with Kokusho or Gary. I play Rise of the Dark Realms as a backup wincon, but it is very fragile. I am hoping they print more epic devotion cards in the next set.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
I think maybe I am being too hard on It that Betrays. I have tons of mana, and he is a threat that requires an immediate answer. I will keep him around for a while and see how it goes. Worst case scenario he is an expensive lightning rod that gets me a ton of life with either Disciple.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Gate to Phyrexia was very slow, and people saw Attrition coming a mile away.
They were also not great sac outlets because of the conditions which had to be met to use them.
I cut them for Spine of Ish Sah and Witchbane Orb.
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If combo should die before I wake I'll slide a Smokestack in every deck I play, roll in every shop wreck the Spirit of EDH.
Deck Name: PADFOOT
Notes:
This deck was inspired by jmdt's Chainer, Dementia Master.
Life Loss:
1. Kokusho, the Evening Star + Chainer, Dementia + Sac Outlet
2. Gray Merchant of Asphodel + Chainer, Dementia + Sac Outlet
5 Chainer, Dementia Master
Mana Utility
0 Cabal Coffers
0 Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
0 Chrome Mox
1 Sol Ring
2 Surveyor's Scope
2 Mind Stone
3 Phyrexian Altar
3 Extraplanar Lens
3 Burnished Hart
3 Sword of Feast and Famine
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Liliana of the Dark Realms
4 Crypt Ghast
4 Solemn Simulacrum
6 Nirkana Revenant
6 Caged Sun
Card Draw
3 Necropotence
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Read the Bones
4 Graveborn Muse
4 Syphon Mind
4 Erebos, God of the Dead
5 Moonlight Bargain
0 Strip Mine
3 Hero's Downfall
3 Silence the Believers
3 Unstable Obelisk
3 Sudden Death
4 Sever the Bloodline
5 Ob Nixilis Reignited
7 Karn Liberated
7 Spine of Ish Sah
Mass Removal
4 Perilous Vault
6 Massacre Wurm
6 Life's Finale
7 All Is Dust
8 Decree of Pain
Disruption & Stax
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Merciless Executioner
3 Mind Slash
3 Contamination
4 Phyrexian Obliterator
4 Ravenous Trap
4 Smokestack
5 Sadistic Hypnotist
Tutors
2 Entomb
2 Demonic Tutor
5 Sidisi, Undead Vizier
3 Yawgmoth's Will
3 Mimic Vat
4 Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
6 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
6 Enslave
7 Sepulchral Primordial
12 It That Betrays
Engine Fuel
2 Bitterblossom
2 Reassembling Skeleton
3 Ophiomancer
6 Grave Titan
Equipment
3 Sword of Body and Mind
3 Sword of War and Peace
Win Conditions
2X Exsanguinate
5 Gray Merchant of Asphodel
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
7 Phage the Untouchable
9 Rise of the Dark Realms
Other Lands
1 Phyrexian Tower
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Arcane Lighthouse
30 Snow-Covered Swamp
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
Bah, completely spaced on that one.
Not sure what you mean, this is my personal list.
I wasn't trying to piggy back on the other thread, I was just contributing and found your comments/input interesting.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I dont think of it as piggybacking but a community effort to make an archtype better.
On that note, since JMDT has been gone for so long now I think im going to remake the primer for more deck discussion. You'll not only be welcome but encouraged to post your list there. Or i can just link to it in the OP.
The biggest thing missing this missing is Living Death and Blood Artist/Falkenwrath Noble
Ill give yah more feedback soon, gonna work on that primer.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I know, I just play these cards in other decks and try to limit the cards I reuse. Living Death seems so good here though, uhg.
I also know that I would probably go straight for Rune-Scarred Demon every game, and I don't want the deck to play out the same way every game.
I think that the Living Death combo will be something I add later on depending on the competitiveness of the deck in my meta.
Thank you very much!!
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
This card is the best card in this deck. If I'd ask anyone from my playgroup who has played or seen me play my list every one of them would say this card is the best card in the list.
Anyways, something I found is consistency wins. Unless I counted incorrectly you run 36 lands? I personally run 42. Yes, that's not a typo I ran 37 and lost the early game because I'd miss land drops 4-7. You can't miss those.
More important ramp cards.
Darksteel Ingot
Wayfarer's Bauble
Solemn Simulacrum
The reason I stress about mana is late game this deck is mana HUNGRY!
Another card I have found to be very powerful is Bloodchief Ascension. This card helps the pain with recurring Chainer Activations.
For now, I'll leave you with that.
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
You can't lose with it.
If you're running 42 lands you dont have enough mana rocks, card draw, or don't mulligan aggressively enough.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
To be honest I am not thrilled by it. I dislike that it requires me to have a creature to sac, and I feel there are better sac outlets.
I already have a lot of ways to get stuff into the yard right now, but I might end up cutting Mindcrank for it eventually.
Only about a fifth of the deck has been constructed so far, and I am presently unable to use cockatrice.
Between Partial Paris, draw, tutors, and mana doublers I should rarely ever get mana screwed. If I end up adding rocks to this deck it will be because of MLD, but I try not to over-extend so I'm doubting it will be a huge issue. My meta is also not that competitive so it's not like I'm going to get destroyed without the extra acceleration. I've done countless testing of mana bases with several different decks and 36 just seems to be the number or lands that works for me; I can't stand having more or less than that.
Agreed.
-Rescue from the Underworld
+Rune-Scarred Demon
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
With just chainer and rune scarred you win.
Its just a matter of having enough creatures/mana in play.
updated my list, its over in the chainer primer if you want to take a look.
Mimeoplasm Midrange, CHAINER CHAINER HIGH VOLTAGE
Rafiq of the Astral Slide, 67land.dec Child of Alara, Gisela <3 Sunforger
TRADE!?WUBRGMy Pauper Cube
Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper, Phage the Uncastable, Azusa Lost but Stompy, Crosis Combo Breaker, All-In-Skullbriar, Rafiq/Jenara ETB army, Hazezon Swarm, Glissa Voltron!, Jarad Zombie Tribal, Zedruu Pillowfort, Reaper King Artifact Shenanagains
I'm lost, how is Phyrexian Alter differ from Alter of Dem as far as needing a creature? I'm also not worried about MY graveyard , I fill up my opponents if I'm not winning with it.
I took all of the rocks out. Too many times id keep 2 lands and 2 rocks and have them destroyed via sweeper. Them I'd get too far behind. So basically I took the rocks out for lands and I've never looked back. Don't get me wrong, I won my fair share before I switched. But my wins doubled after I made the change. You do not want to miss land drops with this deck.
Yes Rune-Scar is pretty awesome. But Alter wins you the game without having to combo out. And feeds everyone's graveyard for sick Sepulchral Primordial plays. When you say it's not good enough to run then you obviously haven't been using correctly or haven't tested it at all. Altar is also a win con by itself.
I also do not run Phyrexian Alter because of that exact fact that that combo exsists. I run zero infinate combos because I'm sick of winning like that. Not saying that it's bad to do that as it is an awesome finish we just got sick of so many games winning via combo so I challenged myself to build a list that doesn't.
I must point out that my meta is fairly competitive and most people try not to run combos, (for the most part) by doing this it creates a much more fun environment.
hatred
I will flay the skin from your flesh,
the flesh from your bones,
and scrape your bones dry,
and still you will not have suffered enough!
Quote the Ryxsyn;
NeVeRMoRe!
You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain!
-Harvey Dent
I'm confused, I didn't say anything about Phyrexian Alter or limiting myself to my yard.
Throst was the one who commented on Phyrexian Alter.
You should always have 3-4 lands in your opening hand if you are using Partial Paris. If I am missing land drops in one of my decks I add more draw, it's much better than being flooded imo. It also doesn't seem like it's that big of a deal if you are running mana doublers and tutors tutors to get them.
I would even argue that it is not always advantageous to play every land drop as after a certain point mana is redundant and you are over-extending into mass land destruction. The real benefit of rocks, is not to ramp imo, but to protect you from this. I wouldn't play them all at once either, I would be holding onto a few of them in case someone pops an armageddon. I believe Throst uses Salvaging Station and Trading Post to recur his rocks.
My meta is not so competitive, and if lands are wrathed it's usually only once or twice a game. I'm going to see if I can get away with relying on doublers and playing conservatively; if not I will add rocks.
@Throst, your list looks really cool. I think there are a lot of things you are doing, that I may eventually do if I decide to make the deck more competitive.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
I was unfortunately unable to test out Pestilence, but I am hoping it's as good as it looks on paper.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
In other news, I had some great matched on cockatrice. One of which was against a really good chainer player. We were going back and forth; he reanimated my Braids twice, and I tutored for Yawgmoth's Will so I could Enslave his Chainer. I dropped a Sadistic Hypnotist in an attempt to dump his hand and in response he cycled Decree of Pain. There were just so many great plays.
He and a Valakult player got me down to about 8 life, then I grabbed Kokusho and put them to 7 and 2. I was about to go grab Exsanguinate and finish them off when Valakult guy scapeshifted and killed the table. I think the deck is almost good enough to finish.
I'm not thrilled about It that Betrays; I want a big dumb beater that I can reanimate and use as an alternate wincon, but I wish there were a better option.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
How has games been going for you? Mine mostly end up as a sort of blink/flicker deck. Looping creatures in and out of the graveyard.
Gahiji, Token Politician
Rakdos, Lord of Riots; or a Dead Sprint to the Finish Line.
Zirilan of the Claw; or Dragon Toolbox of Hatred
Overlord can be really good. I think I chose to use Grave Titan instead because of my curve. My deck is very much a control deck. I stall the game by setting up engines, tutoring for answers, and using my opponents' creatures against them. Then I kill everyone with Kokusho or Gary. I play Rise of the Dark Realms as a backup wincon, but it is very fragile. I am hoping they print more epic devotion cards in the next set.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
It's a reminder text, so it doesn't count.
Added Sword of War and Peace and readded High Market.
I think maybe I am being too hard on It that Betrays. I have tons of mana, and he is a threat that requires an immediate answer. I will keep him around for a while and see how it goes. Worst case scenario he is an expensive lightning rod that gets me a ton of life with either Disciple.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
+Corpse Dance
Discussion here.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master
They were also not great sac outlets because of the conditions which had to be met to use them.
I cut them for Spine of Ish Sah and Witchbane Orb.
WBRG Saskia the Unyielding
WUB Sharuum the Hegemon
RWU Shu Yun, the Silent Tempest
RG Wort, the Raidmother
WU Brago, King Eternal
B Chainer, Dementia Master