This is more like the list that we have been building for the last month. I think that this guy was obviously a frequent visitor to our thread. That or he thought the same way as Me and SSolberg (among others).
The first decklist is actually Derek Holowachuk not Jeremy, but I build that list and he used that deck to qualify, i played bwg that got in 8th. Most of the board wasn't even used with the exception of the guuldmages which were boarded in almost every match. I did take some looks around the thread but not much. Its pretty obvious what the best spells are for a U/W/g and tapping out for baloth is not one of them. I made top 4 in FNM 2 weeks prior but went with a different deck instead to regionals. It played nicely but I don't know if it has the punch to keep going, it will be better post rotation.
I loved the last match I saw him play, only option, all in with meloku, draw a condem, replay a eiganjo castle, condem the guy with the jitte on the counter attack. Finish him. Good times.
I kinda like Jonathan's deck more. He got it right when he sideboarded the condemns and jushi apprentices. Preboard his deck should role aggro even better then ours, because of the loxodons. They require removal to be wasted, jsut to watch their creatures get wrathed next turn. Post board he would buck up aggro when he brings in condemns. Post board he would have a nice game against control becuase of the jsuhi advantage. His board could use some help (one needle?), but that could easily be fixed. Overall, a well built deck.
Edit: I would like to find room for 2 manaleaks in the main
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"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"
The 2 MD Shadow of Doubt's were supposed to be an extra 2 Tidings but the store was out. I put these in because there is alot of Heartbeat around and occasionally an Ideal deck.
Round 1 - Control
We play draw-go for awhile, none of us really able to do anything and not willing to tap out for a large monster and I eventually drew Vitu-Tree for which he apparently had no answer. Game 2 was similar except he resolved a Keiga. He is at 3 and I have 3 tokens. He swings with Keiga. I swing back and he laughs at me like I forgot he could untap Keiga with Minamo. I give him an odd look and Voidslime the untap ability. He dies.
Round 2 - Gruul
I think this was Heezy's list 100% except with Silhana Ledgewalkers instead of Dryad Sophisticates. Game 1 he mulls to 5 and still stomps me after I "waste" counters on a Mauler and a BTS and get beat down by 2 Solifuges. Game 2 I managed to counter a few things, fetters a guy and play a Sky Swallower who ended the game quickly. Game 3 see's him play right into my wrath, with turn 1 ape, turn 2 ape, ape, turn 3 ape, mauler. I get ready to cast Wrath... oh wait.. I didn't get two sources of white
Round 3 - :symw::symu::symg: Something...
Game 1 I think he's playing some crazy aggro deck as he throws down Plaxmantas and Hierarchs, which I counter. I then play Meloku who gets legend ruled and end up winning with saproling tokens as we both topdeck land after land after land. Game 2 confuses me as I start to go offensive with Meloku, Windreaver, and a Swallower which all draw counters which I didn't realise he had. He plays 2 cloaks and 2 O-Naginatas on his bird and I die a horrible death. Game 3 I play more cautiously as I have few threats and we both bide our time. I counter thing after thing and draw 19 lands.. none of them being a tree. Time is called and we end up drawing with the life totals 24 - 24.
Round 4 - Mono-:symr: burn with some guys
2 - 1 - 1 should make top 4 so we shuffle up and go. He starts with Lava Spike and Volcanic Hammer and I die really quickly to all the cheap burn. I sideboard in all my last fetters, my heralds, and my hierarchs. I play a turn 3 herald, turn 4 hierarch, turn 5 hierarch and his deck just couldn't handle the life-gain. Game 3 he sideboards in Rain of Gore and some black land. I keep counter mana open for RoG and manage a turn 4 Hierarch. The life from the hierarch and a steady stream of counters later and he dies.
Woo, 2-1-1, should be in top 4 * Raia checks standings and realises one of 9 pointers conceded to a 6 pointer as they were friends and they'd both make it that way (the 6 pointer couldn't win either as he was playing a janky rogue aggro deck with no disruption versus Heartbeat) so I don't make it.
Notes: Windreaver was incredibly lackluster for me. Every single time I drew it I wished it was another Sky Swallower.
I really really want to find a way to squeeze in another Voidslime without removing a Hinder.
I want to get those Tidings
I didn't actually get to play versus any of the decks that Shadow of Doubt was good against even though they made up 50% of the metagame I still think they are pretty good.
Raia, -1 condemn +1 voidslime. Just throwing that out there, because i think you only need 10 critter controling cards and you have 11.
I would try hiararchs main, but then again thats just my opinion.
I also think you should remove the shadow of doubts, but they could end up being a diamond in the rough, you never know. For what its worth: -2 shadow, +2 Gifts ungiven or 1 tiding and 1 voidslime.
I also think you should remove the shadow of doubts, but they could end up being a diamond in the rough, you never know. For what its worth: -2 shadow, +2 Gifts ungiven or 1 tiding and 1 voidslime.
If you're talking about the Shadow's in the MD, then definatly. I only ran the Shadows as it was last minute and I needed to register and only owned one Tidings. Those spots are officially 2 more Tidings though I might try it with 1 Tidings and one slime.
I like the idea of the Hierarchs in the main, but when I tested them that way, they ended up making the deck closer to beatdown and made me have to make alot of decisions that I didn't like. It's definately worth trying, but I think without evasion they are not strong enough.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
I have to back up the suggestion to replace a Condemn with another Voidslime, and if you need to, board it in place of Fetters or a Herald.
I also like Gifts. 'Twould would be a nifty way to fetch a finisher or a small handful of counterspells.
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
I value gifts because of the way this deck is set up. I even removed a hinder for a single rewind and ill give my explanation for this below.
Gifts will never be a dead card, ever.
Against aggro, you can go with:
1 hierarch
1 wrath
1 fetters
1 repeal/condemn/anything else like a azorius GM
Against control you can go get something like this:
The only rewind
voidslime (Dont forget about the city-tree, like i almost did)
hinder
Tidings......This will almost always net you 2 hard counters. Against any nonblue control deck, they cant give you tidings, because you can run away with the game. Blue control still has to be wary about giving you tidings, because resolving it or a jushi from the board in game 2 could win you the game.
Getting bored and frustrated because you own the board, yet cant find that win condition?
1 meloku
1 windreaver
1 sss
1 hierarch of legendary dragon...You are now garenteed one of the best win conditions available, and resolving any of the first three should be game.
I think the card is way to good to pass up, but thats just my opinion.
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"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"
Okay slight tweaks so far
-1 SSS
-1 Condemn
+1 Hierarch
+1 Voidslime
Okay initial testing has me both loving and hating Gifts Ungiven.
I love the way it is essentially instant speed card draw (and selective card draw at that) but I do have a few concerns.
a) when finding counters/creature control cards, I'm generally pretty happy but I realise that it filters 4 non-land cards out of the deck and with no way to (ab)use the graveyard I end up getting flooded sometimes shortly after.
b) Alot of the time I want to find win-conditions but if I do, that pulls most of them out of the deck and 2 are discarded. If the two that you recieve bite the dust in some way, it can be really hard to win (draw a win condition).
I'm going to test it some more, but I'm not 100% sure yet.
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Those who fear the darkness have never seen what the light can do.
a) when finding counters/creature control cards, I'm generally pretty happy but I realise that it filters 4 non-land cards out of the deck and with no way to (ab)use the graveyard I end up getting flooded sometimes shortly after.
That should let you lower your land count slightly, to 24-23. (Or, I suppose it will. I haven't tested. :))
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"I am so stupid that I cannot understand philosophy; the antithesis of this is that philosophy is so clever that it cannot comprehend my stupidity. These antitheses are mediated in a higher unity; in our common stupidity."
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Guys, I am not sure if you have discussed this already, but what do you guys think about a lone Recollect MD? It is really good in every matchup. You cast SSS, they counter, next turn Recollect. They pop your Vitughazi, you Recollect. They have too many creatures, Recollect your ***. They resolve a Mindslicer, Recollect that Voidslime.
I don't know if its worth it but you could try loaming shaman to shuffle used counters and discarded gifts searches back into your deck, giving you a better chance of drawing them. Plus its a 3/2 creature.
I don't know if its worth it but you could try loaming shaman to shuffle used counters and discarded gifts searches back into your deck, giving you a better chance of drawing them. Plus its a 3/2 creature.
Going way too indepth here. If you make a control deck with primary win condition as Tree Land and have a few meloku and windreaver as backup, you don't need to start adding random and obscure combos to the deck. People still try to make decks do too many things. They should do 1 thing really well and win by doing that. I feel this deck should charge up a mana engine while stopping your opponent from doing anything and eventually win with something like tree or reaver, a 3/2 for 3 belongs in an aggro deck.
That being said however I really enjoyed boarding in 4 guildmage in for game 2 as most decks will side out small removal spells (ie. shocks) and it will ruin their strategy to have an early dude that can swing games.
No. Sakura tribe elder is better (IMO) and it isnt run. Sakura stops jitte, sakura garentees a land, and one that you need. Oracle doesnt, and thus is worse.
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"Its not the size of the dog in the fight, its the size of the fight in the dog"
Ok, I'm playing the original version though, and I have one big problem, its mana base, even though it runs 25, I don't see any of them, have any of you had the same problem?
Ok, I'm playing the original version though, and I have one big problem, its mana base, even though it runs 25, I don't see any of them, have any of you had the same problem?
Only if I don't shuffle well enough, but I never used to have any problems. (I definitely don't anymore ). Try doing a random 5 pile shuffle. It always works for me to mix up the cards well.
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“Should I be worried? He does seem dangerously cool, like a young Lando Calrissian, with a dream.”
looks like a good starting build but it could use some playtesting, as a deck can be "good on paper" but may suck when playing it. Check out the Official Counterpost Competitive thread, you're bound to find advice there.
3 Faith’s Fetters
3 Condemn
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Voidslime
1 Hinder
4 Compulsive Research
1 Tidings
1 Azorius Signet
1 Simic Signet
3 Loxodon Hierarch
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Breeding Pool
1 Yavimaya Coast
4 Island
4 Plains
1 Forest
3 Spell Snare
3 Annex
3 Naturalize
3 Threads of Disloyalty
Previous Discussion: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=20204
Northern Ohio Gamers Forums
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
4 Temple Garden
4 Breeding Pool
4 Hallowed Fountain
1 Eiganjo Castle
3 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
2 Plains
5 Island
Creatures (4)
2 Windreaver
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
3 Faith's Fetters
4 Remand
3 Hinder
2 Tidings
4 Condemn
4 Wrath of God
4 Voidslime
4 Spell Snare
4 Mana Leak
3 Repeal
3 Seed Spark
4 Azorius Guildmage
2 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Pithing Needle
This is more like the list that we have been building for the last month. I think that this guy was obviously a frequent visitor to our thread. That or he thought the same way as Me and SSolberg (among others).
3 Breeding Pool
4 Adarkar Wastes
4 Hallowed Fountain
2 Yavimaya Coast
3 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
2 Brushland
2 Temple Garden
2 Plains
3 Island
Creatures (5)
4 Loxodon Hierarch
1 Windreaver
4 Remand
4 Hinder
4 Spell Snare
4 Wrath of God
3 Voidslime
3 Faith's Fetters
3 Compulsive Research
3 Repeal
2 Tidings
1 Voidslime
1 Pithing Needle
3 Naturalize
3 Condemn
4 Jushi Apprentice
3 Azorius Guildmage
His deck looks a little unrefined, but again, similar to our discussion.
That's all I can find so far, but I'm sure we'll see a lot more once the European Regionals are finished.
I loved the last match I saw him play, only option, all in with meloku, draw a condem, replay a eiganjo castle, condem the guy with the jitte on the counter attack. Finish him. Good times.
Chimaera's 540 Card Depowered Cube
Thanks for the Banner R&Doom! Thanks for the Avatar A_Passer_Bye!
Edit: I would like to find room for 2 manaleaks in the main
I went 2 - 1 - 1 and just missed out on top 4.
Here is the build I played
4x Breeding Pool
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Temple Garden
3x Adarkar Wastes
2x Yavimaya Coast
3x Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
3x Island
2x Plains
Creatures (4)
1x Meloku, the Clouded Mirror
1x Windreaver
2x Simic Sky Swallower
3x Spell Snare
4x Mana Leak
3x Remand
4x Hinder
3x Voidslime
2x Shadow of Doubt
1x Tidings
3x Faith's Fetters
4x Condemn
4x Wrath of God
1x Spell Snare
2x Shadow of Doubt
2x Seed Spark
1x Faith's Fetters
4x Azorius Herald
4x Loxodon Hierarch
1x Simic Sky Swallower
The 2 MD Shadow of Doubt's were supposed to be an extra 2 Tidings but the store was out. I put these in because there is alot of Heartbeat around and occasionally an Ideal deck.
Round 1 - Control
We play draw-go for awhile, none of us really able to do anything and not willing to tap out for a large monster and I eventually drew Vitu-Tree for which he apparently had no answer. Game 2 was similar except he resolved a Keiga. He is at 3 and I have 3 tokens. He swings with Keiga. I swing back and he laughs at me like I forgot he could untap Keiga with Minamo. I give him an odd look and Voidslime the untap ability. He dies.
Round 2 - Gruul
I think this was Heezy's list 100% except with Silhana Ledgewalkers instead of Dryad Sophisticates. Game 1 he mulls to 5 and still stomps me after I "waste" counters on a Mauler and a BTS and get beat down by 2 Solifuges. Game 2 I managed to counter a few things, fetters a guy and play a Sky Swallower who ended the game quickly. Game 3 see's him play right into my wrath, with turn 1 ape, turn 2 ape, ape, turn 3 ape, mauler. I get ready to cast Wrath... oh wait.. I didn't get two sources of white
Round 3 - :symw::symu::symg: Something...
Game 1 I think he's playing some crazy aggro deck as he throws down Plaxmantas and Hierarchs, which I counter. I then play Meloku who gets legend ruled and end up winning with saproling tokens as we both topdeck land after land after land. Game 2 confuses me as I start to go offensive with Meloku, Windreaver, and a Swallower which all draw counters which I didn't realise he had. He plays 2 cloaks and 2 O-Naginatas on his bird and I die a horrible death. Game 3 I play more cautiously as I have few threats and we both bide our time. I counter thing after thing and draw 19 lands.. none of them being a tree. Time is called and we end up drawing with the life totals 24 - 24.
Round 4 - Mono-:symr: burn with some guys
2 - 1 - 1 should make top 4 so we shuffle up and go. He starts with Lava Spike and Volcanic Hammer and I die really quickly to all the cheap burn. I sideboard in all my last fetters, my heralds, and my hierarchs. I play a turn 3 herald, turn 4 hierarch, turn 5 hierarch and his deck just couldn't handle the life-gain. Game 3 he sideboards in Rain of Gore and some black land. I keep counter mana open for RoG and manage a turn 4 Hierarch. The life from the hierarch and a steady stream of counters later and he dies.
Woo, 2-1-1, should be in top 4
* Raia checks standings and realises one of 9 pointers conceded to a 6 pointer as they were friends and they'd both make it that way (the 6 pointer couldn't win either as he was playing a janky rogue aggro deck with no disruption versus Heartbeat) so I don't make it.
Notes:
Windreaver was incredibly lackluster for me. Every single time I drew it I wished it was another Sky Swallower.
I really really want to find a way to squeeze in another Voidslime without removing a Hinder.
I want to get those Tidings
I didn't actually get to play versus any of the decks that Shadow of Doubt was good against even though they made up 50% of the metagame I still think they are pretty good.
I would try hiararchs main, but then again thats just my opinion.
I also think you should remove the shadow of doubts, but they could end up being a diamond in the rough, you never know. For what its worth: -2 shadow, +2 Gifts ungiven or 1 tiding and 1 voidslime.
Edit: Spelled your name wrong...My b.
Edit 2:That really sucks that you didnt top 4
If you're talking about the Shadow's in the MD, then definatly. I only ran the Shadows as it was last minute and I needed to register and only owned one Tidings. Those spots are officially 2 more Tidings though I might try it with 1 Tidings and one slime.
I like the idea of the Hierarchs in the main, but when I tested them that way, they ended up making the deck closer to beatdown and made me have to make alot of decisions that I didn't like. It's definately worth trying, but I think without evasion they are not strong enough.
I also like Gifts. 'Twould would be a nifty way to fetch a finisher or a small handful of counterspells.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
Gifts will never be a dead card, ever.
Against aggro, you can go with:
1 hierarch
1 wrath
1 fetters
1 repeal/condemn/anything else like a azorius GM
Against control you can go get something like this:
The only rewind
voidslime (Dont forget about the city-tree, like i almost did)
hinder
Tidings......This will almost always net you 2 hard counters. Against any nonblue control deck, they cant give you tidings, because you can run away with the game. Blue control still has to be wary about giving you tidings, because resolving it or a jushi from the board in game 2 could win you the game.
Getting bored and frustrated because you own the board, yet cant find that win condition?
1 meloku
1 windreaver
1 sss
1 hierarch of legendary dragon...You are now garenteed one of the best win conditions available, and resolving any of the first three should be game.
I think the card is way to good to pass up, but thats just my opinion.
-1 SSS
-1 Condemn
+1 Hierarch
+1 Voidslime
Okay initial testing has me both loving and hating Gifts Ungiven.
I love the way it is essentially instant speed card draw (and selective card draw at that) but I do have a few concerns.
a) when finding counters/creature control cards, I'm generally pretty happy but I realise that it filters 4 non-land cards out of the deck and with no way to (ab)use the graveyard I end up getting flooded sometimes shortly after.
b) Alot of the time I want to find win-conditions but if I do, that pulls most of them out of the deck and 2 are discarded. If the two that you recieve bite the dust in some way, it can be really hard to win (draw a win condition).
I'm going to test it some more, but I'm not 100% sure yet.
~ Søren Aabye Kierkegaard
It really is quite good.
Thanks to the [Æther] shop for the sig!
I hear.
I touch.
I speak.
Do you?
Going way too indepth here. If you make a control deck with primary win condition as Tree Land and have a few meloku and windreaver as backup, you don't need to start adding random and obscure combos to the deck. People still try to make decks do too many things. They should do 1 thing really well and win by doing that. I feel this deck should charge up a mana engine while stopping your opponent from doing anything and eventually win with something like tree or reaver, a 3/2 for 3 belongs in an aggro deck.
That being said however I really enjoyed boarding in 4 guildmage in for game 2 as most decks will side out small removal spells (ie. shocks) and it will ruin their strategy to have an early dude that can swing games.
Chimaera's 540 Card Depowered Cube
Only if I don't shuffle well enough, but I never used to have any problems. (I definitely don't anymore ). Try doing a random 5 pile shuffle. It always works for me to mix up the cards well.
My most current build hasn't changed much since the last one that I posted, but here it is:
4x Breeding Pool
4x Hallowed Fountain
4x Island
3x Temple Garden
3x Adarkar Wastes
4x Plains
3x Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
Creatures (5)
2x Windreaver
3x Loxodon Hierarch
4x Wrath of God
3x Voidslime
3x Mana Leak
3x Telling Time
3x Hinder
3x Remand
3x Spell Snare
3x Faith's Fetters
3x Condemn
2x Tidings
3x Azorius Guildmage
3x Annex
3x Naturalize
4x Pithing Needle
2x Simic Sky Swallower
It's definitely come a long way even since Regionals. I think it's a lot smoother now that it ever has been.
but telling time seems like a good idea.
3 Faith’s Fetters
3 Condemn
4 Mana Leak
4 Remand
3 Voidslime
1 Hinder
4 Compulsive Research
1 Tidings
1 Azorius Signet
1 Simic Signet
2 Meloku the Clouded Mirror
2 Simic Sky Swallower
3 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
4 Temple Garden
4 Hallowed Fountain
3 Breeding Pool
1 Yavimaya Coast
4 Island
4 Plains
1 Forest
3 Azorius Guildmage
3 Spell Snare
3 Annex
3 Naturalize
3 Threads of Disloyalty
Thread combined with the existing Counterpost thread.
Join the Zoo! We have Rawr!!!
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FREE BLACK LOTUSES+MOXES+PLAYSET OF ALL DUALS EVER PRINTED!
Join the Zoo! We have Rawr!!!
[My decks: GWB Glarescape, RWBg Searing Burial.
My trade thread!
FREE BLACK LOTUSES+MOXES+PLAYSET OF ALL DUALS EVER PRINTED!