Double expansion symbol theory

[Ramenth]

Hello, I'm a water mark.

Edit: I suppose I should explain my logic. The guilds got water marks. Why not just give the Time Shifted cards a water mark of whatever set they're shifted from. Yes, they'll be new. Yes, I fully expect to see the missing three rares. Other than that? I don't know. But I'd like to see the shift-water mark, simply since it would make it clearer.


Also, we've seen new timeshifted cards. Every one of those new legends in Time Spiral was called a "Time Shifted Legend" by WotC. We'll see more stuff like this, I'll bet.

[kami.inu]

Te problem with the watermark is that would it simply be the first set it was shown in or any set it was shown in? The other flaw in this plan is for equipment: surely some would be from dominaria but it would need a mirrodin watermark if everything else did, making little sense.

"Look, a Llanowar Scimitar with a mirrodin watermark! WTF?" could arise so watermarks wouldn't work perfectly.

[Bogardan Mage]

Originally Posted by kami.inu

Te problem with the watermark is that would it simply be the first set it was shown in or any set it was shown in?

From the relevant set. It probably won't even be an issue, as they'll avoid cards from pre-Mirrodin sets just as they avoided cards that had since been reprinted post-Mirrodin in Time Spiral.

Originally Posted by kami.inu

The other flaw in this plan is for equipment: surely some would be from dominaria but it would need a mirrodin watermark if everything else did, making little sense.

"Look, a Llanowar Scimitar with a mirrodin watermark! WTF?" could arise so watermarks wouldn't work perfectly.

I don't think you understand the point of making it timeshifted. Not everything would be timeshifted, and there doesn't need to be equipment from Dominaria anyway! You're just assuming that they won't avoid an easily avoidable problem, which isn't even a problem if they don't make the entire set arbitrarily timeshifted.

ETA: Personally, I like the double set symbol idea better myself, although it depends how PC and FS timeshifted cards will work. Watermarks have no effect on gameplay, so two set symbols would be better if they wanted it to actually mean something.

[thundyr]

This theory is actually quite interesting.
Time Spiral was not only about the past but also brought "new" old cards to old formats like extended; reviving it without needing to print something new. So if we continue in this vein:
Planar Chaos could bring new cards to the older blocks (including those missing rares say), and therefore
Future Sight could include cards that will be legal in standard after TS rotates out.

While this all looks good on paper, I don't think it works very well. While the concept of kinda "pre-printing" cards for the next block and for standard *after* TS rotates is pretty cool, for PC the effect of the timeshifted cards seems, well, weak. They're some new cards that can be played in block formats, like anyone still plays those 6 months into the next block. Then again, Radiance was also weak, so lets not give WotC more credit than they deserve.

[Bogardan Mage]

Originally Posted by thundyr

This theory is actually quite interesting.
Time Spiral was not only about the past but also brought "new" old cards to old formats like extended; reviving it without needing to print something new. So if we continue in this vein:
Planar Chaos could bring new cards to the older blocks (including those missing rares say), and therefore
Future Sight could include cards that will be legal in standard after TS rotates out.

While this all looks good on paper, I don't think it works very well. While the concept of kinda "pre-printing" cards for the next block and for standard *after* TS rotates is pretty cool, for PC the effect of the timeshifted cards seems, well, weak. They're some new cards that can be played in block formats, like anyone still plays those 6 months into the next block. Then again, Radiance was also weak, so lets not give WotC more credit than they deserve.

I think you might be looking at it from the wrong angle. Timeshifted in Time Spiral weren't originally intended to be legal as Time Spiral cards. They were just bonus. They changed it when they realised it was totally out of character for them to print cards that people couldn't use, but this was fairly late in the game. In other words, Timeshifted was already well underway, and presumably the followups were being planned for Planar Chaos and Future Sight. So what does this mean? Tournement legality goes out the window as a consideration. Don't think about what tournements the cards may now be legal in, think of what sets are involved.

[glaivemaster]

So, if they did use watermarks, for Ravnican cards, would they use the set symbols (Ravnica, Guildpact, Dissension) as the watermarks, or the Guild symbols (Gruul, Izzet etc.)? Just something to think about, for the watermark theory

[Bogardan Mage]

Originally Posted by glaivemaster

So, if they did use watermarks, for Ravnican cards, would they use the set symbols (Ravnica, Guildpact, Dissension) as the watermarks, or the Guild symbols (Gruul, Izzet etc.)? Just something to think about, for the watermark theory

The set symbol. That would be consistancy (it wouldn't make much sense to do Fifth Dawn with the set symbol but not Guildpact, now would it?). And that's another reason why the watermarks might not be appropriate.

[eldaec]

While there is no way to be sure ofc, I think the two expansion symbol (there could even be cards with 3 or 4 symbols) is probably the best and most likely suggestion so far.

We can already be 90% certain that the timeshifted cards in PC are mirrodin, kamigawa and ravnica; we know they aren't using purple, we know they use new frames, we know wizards are already in the habit of using expansion symbols to show timeshifted status, and I think it's a safe assumption that they will want some way to show timeshifted status.

Also wotc are trying to build support for the block party format, so this idea would talk to that.

And this would also be a fantastic way to do FS timeshifted preprints. The timeshifted cards could carry 2 symbols, FS and the symbols for some future sets, without ever telling us the future set names or the order they come in.

[Ramenth]

How would a Llanowar Scimitar be timeshifted?

It's not coming from mirroden. I assume they didn't have Llanowar cards that they dropped during production. Timeshifted cards refer to the cards that are shifted, not the mechanic. After all, we had Equipment in Kamigawa and Ravnica, and those are definitely not Mirroden cards.

Rather, the cards that recieve a watermark would be the ones like "Leonin two handed sword," and "Boros poking stick" (Mirroden and Ravnica respectivly.)

Edit: Iunno. My assumption for the 'pre-print' future-shifted cards are that they'll probably be cards that wizards hasn't necessarily assigned to a block yet. Maybe they're ones that are sitting in the 'to-do' folder, or maybe they're just cool concepts that WoTC will add to a set at some point. I'm hopeing we'll see cards from far enough in the future that it wont all be set in stone though.

[Crusade]

One other use: in a store near me, they have a format called guild wars. You make a 60 card rav block deck with only two colors. The old symbols on the card would let them add to casual formats like this.

Also, the ask wizards today strongly hinted that they wanted to complete the guildpact rares. This would be one way to do that.

[kami.inu]

I just realised: with 2 exp symbols, we can't have our
- Legendary Creature - Human Advisor (Masako, Teysa, Augustin IV)
- Legendary Artifact Creature - Wizard (Memnarch)
- Legendary Artifact Creature - Golem (Bosh)
- Legendary Creature - Human Cleric (Lyzolda)
- Legendary Creature - Ooze Mutant (Kraj)
- Legendary Creature - Human Wizard (Azami, Hisoka, Zur)
- Legendary Creature - Dragon Spirit (Yosei, etc.)
- Legendary Creature - Human Warrior (Norin)

These cards are already a squeeze as is, and wouldn't fit 2 exp symbols. As such I think that 2 exp symbols are silly. You can still beleive what you want though, it's not my problem until they do 2 exp symbols on a card.

[CarefulWithThatAx]

Originally Posted by kami.inu

These cards are already a squeeze as is, and wouldn't fit 2 exp symbols. As such I think that 2 exp symbols are silly. You can still beleive what you want though, it's not my problem until they do 2 exp symbols on a card.

They actually couldn't fit Jolrael's type on there, they had to reduce the font.

[eldaec]

Edit: I suppose I should explain my logic. The guilds got water marks. Why not just give the Time Shifted cards a water mark of whatever set they're shifted from. Yes, they'll be new. Yes, I fully expect to see the missing three rares. Other than that? I don't know. But I'd like to see the shift-water mark, simply since it would make it clearer.

Watermarks are of course perfectly possible. But they clash with accepted practice (watermarks are about guilds on Rav cards - and since this will include Rav cards...), and just aren't as cool as making PC-shifted cards legal in their 'home' sets.

These cards are already a squeeze as is

Since PC-shifts aren't reprints, they can just write them to fit. Plus there is already an established practice of 'thinning' the font when creature types won't fit.

[Bigboned]

IMHO, timeshifted cards in PC dont necessarily have to fit any of the criteria that have been suggested. Maro said the TShifts in the other two expansions are not reprints of old cards right? This makes me believe that more likely than not they will take older characters and places and create new cards for them. Similarly to making jaya ballard and saffi in other words - timeshifted cards will just be anachronisms from dominarias twisted past.

Also, I'm not 100% behind the idea that Spiral chaos and future sight are supposed to be past present and future respectively. Time spiral does not have an obvious link to the past other than that its from urza's saga and is therefore old and Planar chaos from judgement doesn't reference time at all. The fact that future sight was chosen to be the name of the third set of the block has convinced virtually everyone that there is a past present and future theme going down with the timeshifts, when in fact Maro and others have stated many times that TS block is the "nostalgia" block.

There is no reason to assume that the Tshifted cards from PC and FS will be of mechanics from other sets let alone the "preprint" idea that so many people have bandied about unless you assume that the whole past-present-future thing is accurate.

Bringing back mechanics from recent sets is just a bad idea imo, im sick of bloodthirst already and i hope to god that affinity or modular never raise their ugly little misshapen heads again. Im still in therapy from the first time round. Recent mechanics dont fit with the nostalgia theme: I for one am not about to get all teary eyed about the return of hellbent when it hasnt yet left the environment to start with!

GAH.
Ok
Thats better anyways.
If you still want to feel safe and secure inside your little box feel free. Im going to go try and think outside it.

Peace out.

[Kirblar]

Originally Posted by Bigboned

IMHO, timeshifted cards in PC dont necessarily have to fit any of the criteria that have been suggested. Maro said the TShifts in the other two expansions are not reprints of old cards right? This makes me believe that more likely than not they will take older characters and places and create new cards for them. Similarly to making jaya ballard and saffi in other words - timeshifted cards will just be anachronisms from dominarias twisted past.

Also, I'm not 100% behind the idea that Spiral chaos and future sight are supposed to be past present and future respectively. Time spiral does not have an obvious link to the past other than that its from urza's saga and is therefore old and Planar chaos from judgement doesn't reference time at all. The fact that future sight was chosen to be the name of the third set of the block has convinced virtually everyone that there is a past present and future theme going down with the timeshifts, when in fact Maro and others have stated many times that TS block is the "nostalgia" block.

There is no reason to assume that the Tshifted cards from PC and FS will be of mechanics from other sets let alone the "preprint" idea that so many people have bandied about unless you assume that the whole past-present-future thing is accurate.

Bringing back mechanics from recent sets is just a bad idea imo, im sick of bloodthirst already and i hope to god that affinity or modular never raise their ugly little misshapen heads again. Im still in therapy from the first time round. Recent mechanics dont fit with the nostalgia theme: I for one am not about to get all teary eyed about the return of hellbent when it hasnt yet left the environment to start with!

GAH.
Ok
Thats better anyways.
If you still want to feel safe and secure inside your little box feel free. Im going to go try and think outside it.

Peace out.

Rosewater himself said the Block theme was Past, Present, Future on the podcast.