Hi all, I am the ADD kid, once per game I can shuffle peoples roles. YAY.
@Xyre: THERE WAS NO FORTH FAN! Thats the point of the role, the entire game they were looking for the 4th fan, and never found him. Its been a joke around here ever since, and definitly deserves to be in this game.
This is wrong. Azrael was the last fan that game. The others claimed but he didn't. At one point someone else faked being the last fan, but yeah, Azrael was the unclaimed fan. Though thinking about it now its possible this was never public knowledge with the way the game exploded and all.
Anyway, with my dying breath, something non-game-related: CropCircles falseclaimed the fourth fan, Azrael really was the fourth fan but never admitted it until the game was over, yes this is public knowledge.
What?! Look at the initial post; he is dead. Deceased. Kaputt. Indefinitely horizontal. In mafia games, you see, people are occasionally "killed off," and when that sad event occurs, he or she is no longer allowed to post, on account of rigor mortis and what-have-you.
'Welcome to Mafia Salvation', it said, 'Population: 3,660.' And someone, they never figured out who, had painted on the sign in red letters: '1,831 to lynch.'
The role-shuffling thing was incredibly broken in High School, and the only reason the game went so long was that matjoeman didn't use it or claim it until I dropped a counterclaim opportunity in his lap. At least the way it was done there it was an auto-win for the town. Mass claim, shuffle, mass claim, all mafia identified.
cpe: So does the role-shuffler shuffle alignments as well as abilities again? Is there any restriction at all?
It's possible if Kenji based his falseclaim in the other game off his real role here. Although if that's what he did then it's his own silly fault since this post strongly implies otherwise.
Yeah, that's why I don't get it. He claimed that he had had this role before, but he can't have... Why would Kenji lie?
...you heard a knock at the door. Or the door being knocked down?
There was someone with a sword (or at least armed with something). There was a fight?
It was an evil someone. You were scared and sad.
Then it was daytime. So overall I conclude that when I said you were sick I was taking you too literally. You were in fact poisoned, or maybe just hurt in a fight?
Did HC ever say what bonus he gets in pirate talk all day?
No.
Luckily not alignments this time
Vote: creampuffeater
The time to say that was during your (false)claim. I wondered why you'd claim unprovoked, now I know.
Incidentally if you are town you never need to claim this ability anyway since it should never be used.
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This is borderline fishing ("Az, did someone try to kill you in your sleep ?")
True, but since he's trying to communicate in smileys we scarcely have a choice but to ask him questions. Feel free to help.
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I think that if cpe is telling the truth his role suggests some very interesting things about the setup. 1. The individual roles need to be designed modularly independent of the other roles of their alignment, and of their alignment in general. 2 Each role needs to be of a similar power level and no roles can be broken in the hands of an alignment they didn't start in. For example if his role were true I wouldn't expect to see a vig variant in the town. If these conditions don't hold then the use of his ability could create far too big an unbalance in the setup, for either side. All in all beyond flavor this could make role claims in general almost pointless. Of course again this is all trusting that cpe is telling the truth.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't xyre's claim a 1 shot vig/1 shot rb? This is a role that doesn't seem to jive with cpe's.
Or maybe we should just resolve this by having Xyre vig CPE? If he can do it, CPE deserved it. If not, we'd lynch Xyre tomorrow.
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HC, I echo the questions of the others, what do you lose? Also, did you do anything last night?
-Alpha
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Quote from TheFooFish »
Lies! -I'm Buffy Summers, town tracker. I used my ability on you and saw that you didn't use any abilities before the game started. My flavor is I was sucked through a mysterious space-time portal and I'm here to kill all the vampires, and my tracking ability is a combination of my Slayer and Native American skills.
Or maybe we should just resolve this by having Xyre vig CPE? If he can do it, CPE deserved it. If not, we'd lynch Xyre tomorrow.
Uhh...
You all do realize that there are only nine people left? That means, most likely, three mafia, six townies. Now, if you want me to vig someone, that's alright, but keep in mind that if we lynch someone, the mafia kills someone, and I vig someone, and they're all townies, then we will LOSE right there. In fact, I think my vig is useless at this point. The pure risk behind it negates its value.
If the town can decide on a target who we can guarantee is scum, then it might be a good choice to use it, but if it's just to take out someone silly like CPE, then it's probably going to only harm the town. If we can end up lynching scum here, then it might be worth it, but until then, it's too dangerous, imho.
That means, most likely, three mafia, six townies.
No.
In fact, I think my vig is useless at this point.
Sounds a bit like a claim retraction there, dude!
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I have the abilities, the kill's just nigh-useless. Tell me who to shoot (a good target) and I will. Tonight, I'll probably just use the block; I think that's more useful at this point in the game.
Are you implying CPE is not a good target ? Or is it just that he's your scumbuddy ?
At this point, I think nobody is a good target. If it can be shown that CPE is scum, then sure, I'll shoot him. Right now, I'm planning on blocking him.
I think that if cpe is telling the truth his role suggests some very interesting things about the setup. 1. The individual roles need to be designed modularly independent of the other roles of their alignment, and of their alignment in general.
Uhhh my role doesnt change alignment.
Quote from Chamber »
2 Each role needs to be of a similar power level and no roles can be broken in the hands of an alignment they didn't start in.
agree on equal power, but no alignment changing.
Quote from chamber »
For example if his role were true I wouldn't expect to see a vig variant in the town. If these conditions don't hold then the use of his ability could create far too big an unbalance in the setup, for either side. All in all beyond flavor this could make role claims in general almost pointless. Of course again this is all trusting that cpe is telling the truth.
I dont know if Vig is too broken, but I actually think it helps the scum by shuffling who has any possible power roles.
Quote from chamber »
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't xyre's claim a 1 shot vig/1 shot rb? This is a role that doesn't seem to jive with cpe's.
You all do realize that there are only nine people left? That means, most likely, three mafia, six townies. Now, if you want me to vig someone, that's alright, but keep in mind that if we lynch someone, the mafia kills someone, and I vig someone, and they're all townies, then we will LOSE right there. In fact, I think my vig is useless at this point. The pure risk behind it negates its value.
Wrong.... besides dont vig me, wont help.
Quote from xyre »
If the town can decide on a target who we can guarantee is scum, then it might be a good choice to use it, but if it's just to take out someone silly like CPE, then it's probably going to only harm the town. If we can end up lynching scum here, then it might be worth it, but until then, it's too dangerous, imho.
At this point, I think nobody is a good target. If it can be shown that CPE is scum, then sure, I'll shoot him. Right now, I'm planning on blocking him.
I wont fire, blocking does nothing, your just wasting it.
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Quote from hotshizzle »
<hotshizle> WINE IN FRONT OF MEAL
<hotshizle> i think
Did HC ever say what bonus he gets in pirate talk all day? if he did I forgot.
I didn't, nor did I say what I did or did not do last night. Doing such would be akin to a fullclaim. I am unsure why a fullclaim is being requested of me right now, I don't see the reason and I don't see how it would help the town.
Nevertheless, if the majority of the town wants me to fullclaim, I will. So far I see two requests for it, so I will not.
...you heard a knock at the door. Or the door being knocked down?
There was someone with a sword (or at least armed with something). There was a fight?
It was an evil someone. You were scared and sad.
Then it was daytime. So overall I conclude that when I said you were sick I was taking you too literally. You were in fact poisoned, or maybe just hurt in a fight?
The time to say that was during your (false)claim. I wondered why you'd claim unprovoked, now I know.
Incidentally if you are town you never need to claim this ability anyway since it should never be used.
I'm not sure I understand the bandwagon on CPE. He probably shouldn't have claimed, and should have mentioned this if he did, but I don't think it's that much of a scumtell.
Or maybe we should just resolve this by having Xyre vig CPE? If he can do it, CPE deserved it. If not, we'd lynch Xyre tomorrow.
This sounds pretty good to me, actually.
I second this plan, now we just need to find the lynch for today. Who better be town, because I think we've hit too many town to be comfortable with our position.
Or maybe we should just resolve this by having Xyre vig CPE? If he can do it, CPE deserved it. If not, we'd lynch Xyre tomorrow.
cpe deserved it how?
This seems like a scum trying to set up townies to vig/lynch each other.
Also don't like bateleur egging Xyre on and claiming his reluctance to use his claimed vig shot is a "claim retraction". Why not say "bok bok bok chicken" while you're at it? If you really wanted him to demonstrate an aspect of his claim, the roleblock bit is available. And in any event, by using cpe's claimed ability, we can pretty much confirm everybody's claimed role. Anyone who's lied about role can get found out PDQ.
Also find it suspicious that bateleur was able to immediately get what was apparently a decently accurate translation of what Az was saying. I find the key to working out this kind of stuff is to know the answer in advance.
Three strikes = out.
vote bateleur
In other news, I am very much in favour of a mass claim then having cpe shuffle (NOT blocked thanks Xyre). We'll know the setup but due to the shuffle the scum won't know where the power roles are (and if someone's false claimed already they're screwed).
I second this plan, now we just need to find the lynch for today. Who better be town, because I think we've hit too many town to be comfortable with our position.
Casually seconding a vigging plan like that doesn't sit well with acting concerned about "having hit too many town".
Not to mention the Freudian slip that the lynch "better be town"!
FOS Hunted Charlie. Are you concerned that your roleclaim will be found to be a lie? You can go up against the wall with bateleur.
This seems like a scum trying to set up townies to vig/lynch each other.
I don't think so. Now that you mention it, though, I think the person to vig should probably not be CPE, because there are scummier people and because the tie drawn between CPE and Xyre is very very thin.
Also don't like bateleur egging Xyre on and claiming his reluctance to use his claimed vig shot is a "claim retraction". Why not say "bok bok bok chicken" while you're at it? If you really wanted him to demonstrate an aspect of his claim, the roleblock bit is available. And in any event, by using cpe's claimed ability, we can pretty much confirm everybody's claimed role. Anyone who's lied about role can get found out PDQ.
Also find it suspicious that bateleur was able to immediately get what was apparently a decently accurate translation of what Az was saying. I find the key to working out this kind of stuff is to know the answer in advance.
These points actually make a lot of sense to me, and I can't believe I didn't notice these earlier. He has done a lot of good for the town in the past, though, so I'm only going to FOS Bateleur for now while I look this over more.
Casually seconding a vigging plan like that doesn't sit well with acting concerned about "having hit too many town".
Vigging and lynching is a very risky plan. However, we need to get some scum dead fast, because each night that goes on without a scum dead, they kill one of ours and we get closer to the end. It's a risk we'll have to take, in order to hit scum and finish this game fast.
But as I said earlier in this post, I agree that somebody other than CPE should be lynched. For some reason, that tie between CPE and Xyre seemed stronger when I last looked at it.
Not to mention the Freudian slip that the lynch "better be town"!
It could be a Freudian slip, or a simple mistype. I am of the firm belief that 99% of the "Freudian slips" people see are mistypes, and that people overanalyze and make them into much more.
FOS Hunted Charlie. Are you concerned that your roleclaim will be found to be a lie? You can go up against the wall with bateleur.
I haven't roleclaimed yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If a majority of the town wants me to roleclaim, I will, but so far I have three votes so I will not.
I don't think so. Now that you mention it, though, I think the person to vig should probably not be CPE, because there are scummier people and because the tie drawn between CPE and Xyre is very very thin.
Backpedal!
Quote from HC »
These points actually make a lot of sense to me, and I can't believe I didn't notice these earlier.
How insincere. Given that my case on bateleur was based on two posts of his which he made in the last 24 hours or so, I can certainly believe you didn't notice these earlier.
Quote from HC »
He has done a lot of good for the town in the past, though,
How insincere again. When?
Quote from HC »
Vigging and lynching is a very risky plan. However, we need to get some scum dead fast, because each night that goes on without a scum dead, they kill one of ours and we get closer to the end.
Yes, that is how the game works. I think we all know this stuff. You aren't revealing a great strategic insight here.
Quote from HC »
It's a risk we'll have to take, in order to hit scum and finish this game fast.
As Xyre points out, a mislynch + misvig + mafia kill possibly = game over by the morning of day 3. That would be finishing the game "fast"!
Vigging someone is NOT a risk we have to take, at all.
Quote from HC »
But as I said earlier in this post, I agree that somebody other than CPE should be lynched. For some reason, that tie between CPE and Xyre seemed stronger when I last looked at it.
More backpedal.
It could be a Freudian slip, or a simple mistype. I am of the firm belief that 99% of the "Freudian slips" people see are mistypes, and that people overanalyze and make them into much more.
You would say that, though
I will point out that even if you'd actually said "the lynch better be scum", it would have been suspicious. OBVIOUSLY all townies hope the lynch comes up scum. Saying something like that sounds like someone trying to convince us that he's also a townie... especially when he slips while saying it and "claims scum", so to speak.
I'm reminded of picking off Sutherlands for his "slip" in DotA. He didn't even think of it as a slip even afterwards, but it really was- it was something he said because he had a scum's viewpoint of MD and didn't even think that MD = town doctor wasn't as obvious to us uninformed townies
I think your behaviour speaks strongly of scum WITH bateleur, but I can only try one of you at a time, and you're cracking already and from past experience bateleur will be tough to crack without strong leverage (like HC coming up scum, for example). unvote, vote HC
I favour a plan of:
1) Mass claim
2) Lynch HC
3) cpe uses his ability and Xyre doesn't block him.
4) Proceed from there (lynching bateleur most likely, provided HC comes up scum).
Correct tense please Mr Raf. CPE will have deserved it. This is due to chamber's observation that if CPE's ability is real there cannot be a vig in the game.
Also don't like bateleur egging Xyre on and claiming his reluctance to use his claimed vig shot is a "claim retraction".
Oh noes. Sorry you don't like it. Boo hoo. But the fact is if the town wants him to use his vig power and he refuses that looks very bad for him (although it remains to be seen if the town does want him to use it, that's beside the point here).
If you really wanted him to demonstrate an aspect of his claim, the roleblock bit is available.
No it isn't. Not unless there's someone he can block whose report we then trust concerning whether they were blocked. Do you have any recommendations there?
And in any event, by using cpe's claimed ability, we can pretty much confirm everybody's claimed role.
Assuming he really has it, which he almost certainly doesn't. In order to find out, we need everyone to claim. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
Also find it suspicious that bateleur was able to immediately get what was apparently a decently accurate translation of what Az was saying.
We'll know the setup but due to the shuffle the scum won't know where the power roles are
Unless they have them! Do you deny that on average the town will lose power if this happens?
I think your behaviour speaks strongly of scum WITH bateleur
Good grief Raf, you know better than that. Guessing at multiple linked scum at once is far too much of a longshot to be good play.
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<Limited Clan>
How insincere. Given that my case on bateleur was based on two posts of his which he made in the last 24 hours or so, I can certainly believe you didn't notice these earlier.
I caught those because you pointed them out. That, I understand, is the reason you point things out? I don't see how it is "insincere" to change my mind when confronted with good points. If you aren't expecting to change any minds, then why do you bother to make points at all?
He has been an active participant and has been making good points for the last few days. It's true that he has never caught a scum, but on the other hand, none of us have.
Yes, that is how the game works. I think we all know this stuff. You aren't revealing a great strategic insight here.
If you know this, why did you question it? That is why it is both risky and the best plan. And that's what I said, I said it was a risky move but that we should do it. What was the point of questioning that?
As Xyre points out, a mislynch + misvig + mafia kill possibly = game over by the morning of day 3. That would be finishing the game "fast"!
Yes. Or, we could just do a mislynch today, mafia kill tonight, mislynch tomorrow, and still lose before tomorrow eve.
If we are doing the "assume every kill is town" thing, we're going to lose before the end of tomorrow no matter what. I say we go for the vig and optimize the chances of hitting a scum and prolonging our life.
I will point out that even if you'd actually said "the lynch better be scum", it would have been suspicious. OBVIOUSLY all townies hope the lynch comes up scum. Saying something like that sounds like someone trying to convince us that he's also a townie... especially when he slips while saying it and "claims scum", so to speak.
So... what was I supposed to say? It sounds like an awful lot of my options would condemn me as scum.
I'm reminded of picking off Sutherlands for his "slip" in DotA. He didn't even think of it as a slip even afterwards, but it really was- it was something he said because he had a scum's viewpoint of MD and didn't even think that MD = town doctor wasn't as obvious to us uninformed townies
Or (I haven't read this game, so I might be way off), Sutherlands played well like he was town, and got picked off coincidentally because of a typo. Remember that around 1/4 of the people who mistype like this will be scum, but that doesn't mean it was a slip.
But I suppose there isn't much way to tell you that it's not a slip. At the end of the game though, when all is revealed, expect me yelling at you about how "Freudian slips" are a stupid way of detecting scum.
Correct tense please Mr Raf. CPE will have deserved it. This is due to chamber's observation that if CPE's ability is real there cannot be a vig in the game.
Think about this a moment longer. A vig would be a bit odd, but I don't think it is impossible, and that line of thought comes very close to trying to outguess the mod. I fear that pursuing this may lead us to a town double-vig/lynch, and then a Mafia NK for the lose.
I think vigging CPE isn't a great strategy. I still prefer blocking him. His secrecy has me worried that he's not telling the truth and is counting on us to trust him. I for one do not. I'm fine with not doing anything tonight, but I will not kill him.
Quote from Hunted Charlie »
Yes. Or, we could just do a mislynch today, mafia kill tonight, mislynch tomorrow, and still lose before tomorrow eve.
If we are doing the "assume every kill is town" thing, we're going to lose before the end of tomorrow no matter what. I say we go for the vig and optimize the chances of hitting a scum and prolonging our life.
True. Either way, we need to not kill townies. Using my vig is not the way to do that.
At this point, I'm not sure who's the scummiest aggressive player. Neither Rafk's plan nor Bat's plan have me filled with a lot of confidence. I could feasibly see one of them as mafia.
Right now, this is what I think:
1. chamber - Aggressively suspicious of me. Then again, I've played poorly all game, so I could understand why he'd think this. Leaning town
2. creampuffeater - His claim is really bothersome, especially because he's so secretive about it. It feels like he's throwing the claim out there and hoping he can buy townie points; the question is, why? And why isn't he being fully honest with us? It doesn't seem like something a townie would do. Leaning scum, with the caveat that if he's telling the truth (the complete truth), then he's probably town. That ability seems counterproductive on a scum in its claimed form.
3. RafaelK - His plan (lynch HC, use CPE's shuffle, then see where that leaves us) seems reckless on several levels. I will admit that HC's not instilling me with a lot of confidence, and has not shown us that his pirate "restriction" is completely honest, but I think that trusting the fate of the town on a mass claim plus the shuffle is dangerous, and that if CPE isn't telling the truth, then we're flat-out screwed. I think CPE's too dangerous to take that chance, especially with his secrecy. However, this entire strategy seems like a rather townie policy. Leaning town
4. Azrael - Hasn't contributed much, for fairly obvious reasons. Neutral/Leaning town
5. bateleur - His plan (vig CPE) is rather reckless, as I mentioned above. Remember, we're three townie kills off a very quick end, and using the vig seems like the town equivalent of suicide. I think Rafk's point that bat's trying to "egg me on", in a sense, is rather valid, and it's a good reason to be suspicious of bat. I somewhat doubt that bateleur and Rafk are on the same side (although it wouldn't surprise me much), so I think bat's Leaning scum. The fact that he wants me to vig CPE is probably a point in CPE's favor, of course.
6. Hunted Charlie - Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence, but doesn't strike me as overtly scum. His post wasn't great, although I don't think it was "scum post of the year" as Rafk asserts. I could see HC going either way at this point - either misguided townie or scum. Neutral 7. AlphaInsidious - I can't remember the last time this guy posted. I need to do a review of what he said. If any player deserves a PBPA, it's probably him. For the moment, I'll withhold judgment on him.
8. ZeDorkSlipeur - Town. I've seen no immediate indication to the contrary.
9. Xyre - Obviously town.
At this point, I'm a bit baffled by the combinations of targets. I'm not entirely sure how CPE, bat, and Rafk fit together; I'd wager that at least one of them is scum. My guess at this point is bat, Alpha, and HC, although I doubt that's entirely correct. I'm not really confident about any of my predictions for this game.
OK, Xyre, here's a question for you: if the majority of the surviving players expressed the view that you should vig CPE, would you do agree to do it?
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Your opinion on that score is already noted. Give a "yes" or "no" answer please.
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Whoops, I just realized I got it backward. If we lynch a townie, I won't. If we lynch a scum, I'll consider it. At this point, however, I don't think he's likely scum.
Assuming we lynch a scum then, please answer either "yes", or "no". Anything else will be taken as refusal to answer.
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Well... it's not a "yes", which is all that matters.
It is clear to me your roleclaim is bogus.
Unvote
Vote: Xyre
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If you're a townie you express your view, but do as you're told by the majority unless you know something they don't.
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<Limited Clan>
bat is completely trying to set Xyre up here. I was anti-Xyre yesterday, and I figured after daykilling Kenji that we would then lynch Xyre, but at least to me it is very obvious that bat is trying to force Xyre to say things that bat can then hold against him. And that bat is still trying to ram through this daft "vig CPE" thing.
ZDS: I'm sorry that you think it's random when I say it's insincere that HC says stuff like "I'm amazed I didn't see it earlier" when bat had only just done it, or when I say it's backpedalling when HC backpedals, but eh. You just joined him on the potential scum list for proposing a no lynch plan, which is very nearly as dumb.
[font=georgia]I'm in favor of a No Lynch today, and then having Xyre vig CPE. (ie : the vig replaces the lynch)[/font][/font]
I keep swaying on this. CPE's role itself doesn't seem scummy to me at all, but the way he's playing it does. So, I guess, here's my final position:
I am in support of a vig-kill on somebody who is likely scum tonight. Whether that is CPE or somebody else, I'm still working out. But I'm all for the vigkill.
True. Either way, we need to not kill townies. Using my vig is not the way to do that.
Yet you have CPE listed as one of your top three scum in your list. Sooo... you think he's scum, you just think he shouldn't be killed? How about we just stare down the scum and wait for them to kill themselves?
Maybe, personally, I am fine staying vanilla untill necessary, but I think in the end the ability will help town more. This you will probably learn tommorrow
@Xyre: Just a warning, if you dont want to waste your vig, you wont do it.
Do you think being secretive will help, at all? It's drawing far more attention than just answering honestly would. It seems more like a scare tactic to me than anything else
So my roleclaim is bogus because I'm unwilling to shoot CPE because I don't think he's scummy? How does that make sense?
Why wouldn't you kill somebody who you claim is one of the top three scum? Either you cannot make a kill at all, or your kill is the mafia kill-- and you don't want to kill one of your own. None of this looks good for you.
ZDS: I'm sorry that you think it's random when I say it's insincere that HC says stuff like "I'm amazed I didn't see it earlier" when bat had only just done it, or when I say it's backpedalling when HC backpedals, but eh. You just joined him on the potential scum list for proposing a no lynch plan, which is very nearly as dumb.
This OMGUS is very, very obvious. And even if he did propose a "dumb" plan, whatever happened to the "bad play vs. bad logic" thing? I don't think that makes him scum.
My scumlist (ordered scummiest first):
1) Xyre - Day 1 horrible responses, mediocre claim, refusal to vig one of his top scum suspects, bad reasoning in that situation
2) Bateleur/RafaelK - One or both is mafia. As RafaelK pointed out, Bateluer has made some bad moves. On the other hand, as I and others are pointing out, RafaelK is playing scummily and being very very overaggressive. My current diagnosis is that Bateleur is just a bit misguided (all he's done was suggest a few subpar plays) while RafaelK is scummy and just trying to finish off the town fast, thus the overaggressiveness. After all, at this point in the game a town should be careful
3) Creampuffeater - Odd secrecy, useless roleclaim, no mention of important role change until asked, ties with Xyre
Thus, the Xyre vigging CPE plan sounds pretty good to me now. Xyre vigging RafaelK actually sounds pretty good too, but since I haven't fully decided between RafaelK and Bateleur, I don't think we should do that right now.[/font]
2On the other hand, as I and others are pointing out, RafaelK is playing scummily and being very very overaggressive. My current diagnosis is that Bateleur is just a bit misguided (all he's done was suggest a few subpar plays) while RafaelK is scummy and just trying to finish off the town fast, thus the overaggressiveness. After all, at this point in the game a town should be careful
Quote from HC »
Thus, the Xyre vigging CPE plan sounds pretty good to me now..
So the vigging plan which could lose tonight is your version of careful
You and bateleur are extremely scum and extremely caught.
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@the rest on my claim, why now? cause it was the right timing
This is wrong. Azrael was the last fan that game. The others claimed but he didn't. At one point someone else faked being the last fan, but yeah, Azrael was the unclaimed fan. Though thinking about it now its possible this was never public knowledge with the way the game exploded and all.
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
Huh? How is this the right time? Why on earth do we need to know that at all, much less right now?
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Anyway, with my dying breath, something non-game-related: CropCircles falseclaimed the fourth fan, Azrael really was the fourth fan but never admitted it until the game was over, yes this is public knowledge.
/Bah.
Mafia MVP BM Mafia
Mafia MVP Matrix Mafia
cpe: So does the role-shuffler shuffle alignments as well as abilities again? Is there any restriction at all?
Yeah, that's why I don't get it. He claimed that he had had this role before, but he can't have... Why would Kenji lie?
Um, I'm sure this is a stupid question, but is there a reason why we can't just do that here? It sounds like a foolproof strategy to me.
Except, of course, for the townies who become scum and lose instantly. That would suck.
I don't understand a thing you're saying. I hate this role. So much.
Also, I hate myself and my stupid forgetful mind. That's two posts I just did without my post restriction. I totally forgot it.
Somebody please remind me at the beginning of Day Three.
@Role: Luckily not alignments this time, people who are scummy do not get breaks!
Az stop speaking in signlanguage.
You were asleep, when...
...you heard a knock at the door. Or the door being knocked down?
There was someone with a sword (or at least armed with something). There was a fight?
It was an evil someone. You were scared and sad.
Then it was daytime. So overall I conclude that when I said you were sick I was taking you too literally. You were in fact poisoned, or maybe just hurt in a fight?
No.
Vote: creampuffeater
The time to say that was during your (false)claim. I wondered why you'd claim unprovoked, now I know.
Incidentally if you are town you never need to claim this ability anyway since it should never be used.
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<Limited Clan>
True, but since he's trying to communicate in smileys we scarcely have a choice but to ask him questions. Feel free to help.
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<Limited Clan>
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't xyre's claim a 1 shot vig/1 shot rb? This is a role that doesn't seem to jive with cpe's.
Vote: Xyre
Town/Mafia/Other - 14/6/3
Win/Lose/Tie - 11/12/0
Nk/lynched/Survived - 16/4/3
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<Limited Clan>
-Alpha
Uhh...
You all do realize that there are only nine people left? That means, most likely, three mafia, six townies. Now, if you want me to vig someone, that's alright, but keep in mind that if we lynch someone, the mafia kills someone, and I vig someone, and they're all townies, then we will LOSE right there. In fact, I think my vig is useless at this point. The pure risk behind it negates its value.
If the town can decide on a target who we can guarantee is scum, then it might be a good choice to use it, but if it's just to take out someone silly like CPE, then it's probably going to only harm the town. If we can end up lynching scum here, then it might be worth it, but until then, it's too dangerous, imho.
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Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
No.
Sounds a bit like a claim retraction there, dude!
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<Limited Clan>
Then what?
I have the abilities, the kill's just nigh-useless. Tell me who to shoot (a good target) and I will. Tonight, I'll probably just use the block; I think that's more useful at this point in the game.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
At this point, I think nobody is a good target. If it can be shown that CPE is scum, then sure, I'll shoot him. Right now, I'm planning on blocking him.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
:-/:)
:):):-/
:):-/:)
No not at all
No what it is, is not the crazy version that appeared in HS. It keeps the game decent, not off the wall crazy. Because it is... cant say any more.
Uhhh my role doesnt change alignment. agree on equal power, but no alignment changing. I dont know if Vig is too broken, but I actually think it helps the scum by shuffling who has any possible power roles.
I disagree.
Bad idea, VERY bad idea.
Wrong.... besides dont vig me, wont help.
Yes, and I fail to see where I am confirmed scum.
I wont fire, blocking does nothing, your just wasting it.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Nevertheless, if the majority of the town wants me to fullclaim, I will. So far I see two requests for it, so I will not.
I don't hate this role as much, I guess, but I still think it's a bit of a ridiculous role.
What? You do know he can only talk in smilies, right? He talks in smilies or he doesn't talk at all.
I feel like we're playing charades...
I'm not sure I understand the bandwagon on CPE. He probably shouldn't have claimed, and should have mentioned this if he did, but I don't think it's that much of a scumtell.
I agree. With Azrael, we pretty much have to fish because he needs our help to reveal his information.
This sounds pretty good to me, actually.
I second this plan, now we just need to find the lynch for today. Who better be town, because I think we've hit too many town to be comfortable with our position. I didn't, nor did I say what I did or did not do last night. Doing such would be akin to a fullclaim. I am unsure why a fullclaim is being requested of me right now, I don't see the reason and I don't see how it would help the town.
cpe deserved it how?
This seems like a scum trying to set up townies to vig/lynch each other.
Also don't like bateleur egging Xyre on and claiming his reluctance to use his claimed vig shot is a "claim retraction". Why not say "bok bok bok chicken" while you're at it? If you really wanted him to demonstrate an aspect of his claim, the roleblock bit is available. And in any event, by using cpe's claimed ability, we can pretty much confirm everybody's claimed role. Anyone who's lied about role can get found out PDQ.
Also find it suspicious that bateleur was able to immediately get what was apparently a decently accurate translation of what Az was saying. I find the key to working out this kind of stuff is to know the answer in advance.
Three strikes = out.
vote bateleur
In other news, I am very much in favour of a mass claim then having cpe shuffle (NOT blocked thanks Xyre). We'll know the setup but due to the shuffle the scum won't know where the power roles are (and if someone's false claimed already they're screwed).
Casually seconding a vigging plan like that doesn't sit well with acting concerned about "having hit too many town".
Not to mention the Freudian slip that the lynch "better be town"!
FOS Hunted Charlie. Are you concerned that your roleclaim will be found to be a lie? You can go up against the wall with bateleur.
1 bateleur – RafaelK
1 Xyre - chamber
5 Not Voting – AlphaInsidious, Azrael, creampuffeater, Hunted Charlie, Xyre
With 9 alive, it's 5 to lynch.
These points actually make a lot of sense to me, and I can't believe I didn't notice these earlier. He has done a lot of good for the town in the past, though, so I'm only going to FOS Bateleur for now while I look this over more.
Vigging and lynching is a very risky plan. However, we need to get some scum dead fast, because each night that goes on without a scum dead, they kill one of ours and we get closer to the end. It's a risk we'll have to take, in order to hit scum and finish this game fast.
But as I said earlier in this post, I agree that somebody other than CPE should be lynched. For some reason, that tie between CPE and Xyre seemed stronger when I last looked at it.
It could be a Freudian slip, or a simple mistype. I am of the firm belief that 99% of the "Freudian slips" people see are mistypes, and that people overanalyze and make them into much more.
I haven't roleclaimed yet, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. If a majority of the town wants me to roleclaim, I will, but so far I have three votes so I will not. I don't think so. Now that you mention it, though, I think the person to vig should probably not be CPE, because there are scummier people and because the tie drawn between CPE and Xyre is very very thin.
Backpedal!
How insincere. Given that my case on bateleur was based on two posts of his which he made in the last 24 hours or so, I can certainly believe you didn't notice these earlier.
How insincere again. When?
Yes, that is how the game works. I think we all know this stuff. You aren't revealing a great strategic insight here.
As Xyre points out, a mislynch + misvig + mafia kill possibly = game over by the morning of day 3. That would be finishing the game "fast"!
Vigging someone is NOT a risk we have to take, at all.
More backpedal.
You would say that, though
I will point out that even if you'd actually said "the lynch better be scum", it would have been suspicious. OBVIOUSLY all townies hope the lynch comes up scum. Saying something like that sounds like someone trying to convince us that he's also a townie... especially when he slips while saying it and "claims scum", so to speak.
I'm reminded of picking off Sutherlands for his "slip" in DotA. He didn't even think of it as a slip even afterwards, but it really was- it was something he said because he had a scum's viewpoint of MD and didn't even think that MD = town doctor wasn't as obvious to us uninformed townies
I think your behaviour speaks strongly of scum WITH bateleur, but I can only try one of you at a time, and you're cracking already and from past experience bateleur will be tough to crack without strong leverage (like HC coming up scum, for example). unvote, vote HC
I favour a plan of:
1) Mass claim
2) Lynch HC
3) cpe uses his ability and Xyre doesn't block him.
4) Proceed from there (lynching bateleur most likely, provided HC comes up scum).
Correct tense please Mr Raf. CPE will have deserved it. This is due to chamber's observation that if CPE's ability is real there cannot be a vig in the game.
Oh noes. Sorry you don't like it. Boo hoo. But the fact is if the town wants him to use his vig power and he refuses that looks very bad for him (although it remains to be seen if the town does want him to use it, that's beside the point here).
No it isn't. Not unless there's someone he can block whose report we then trust concerning whether they were blocked. Do you have any recommendations there?
Assuming he really has it, which he almost certainly doesn't. In order to find out, we need everyone to claim. Doesn't sound like a good plan to me.
Unless they have them! Do you deny that on average the town will lose power if this happens?
Good grief Raf, you know better than that. Guessing at multiple linked scum at once is far too much of a longshot to be good play.
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<Limited Clan>
I caught those because you pointed them out. That, I understand, is the reason you point things out? I don't see how it is "insincere" to change my mind when confronted with good points. If you aren't expecting to change any minds, then why do you bother to make points at all?
He has been an active participant and has been making good points for the last few days. It's true that he has never caught a scum, but on the other hand, none of us have.
If you know this, why did you question it? That is why it is both risky and the best plan. And that's what I said, I said it was a risky move but that we should do it. What was the point of questioning that?
Yes. Or, we could just do a mislynch today, mafia kill tonight, mislynch tomorrow, and still lose before tomorrow eve.
If we are doing the "assume every kill is town" thing, we're going to lose before the end of tomorrow no matter what. I say we go for the vig and optimize the chances of hitting a scum and prolonging our life.
So... what was I supposed to say? It sounds like an awful lot of my options would condemn me as scum.
Or (I haven't read this game, so I might be way off), Sutherlands played well like he was town, and got picked off coincidentally because of a typo. Remember that around 1/4 of the people who mistype like this will be scum, but that doesn't mean it was a slip.
But I suppose there isn't much way to tell you that it's not a slip. At the end of the game though, when all is revealed, expect me yelling at you about how "Freudian slips" are a stupid way of detecting scum.
Think about this a moment longer. A vig would be a bit odd, but I don't think it is impossible, and that line of thought comes very close to trying to outguess the mod. I fear that pursuing this may lead us to a town double-vig/lynch, and then a Mafia NK for the lose.
In English, please? I changed my mind after looking at how tenuous the tie is. I don't see why that's scummy.
FOS Rafaelk.
Unvote Bateleur
Unvote Bateleur
True. Either way, we need to not kill townies. Using my vig is not the way to do that.
At this point, I'm not sure who's the scummiest aggressive player. Neither Rafk's plan nor Bat's plan have me filled with a lot of confidence. I could feasibly see one of them as mafia.
Right now, this is what I think:
1. chamber - Aggressively suspicious of me. Then again, I've played poorly all game, so I could understand why he'd think this. Leaning town
2. creampuffeater - His claim is really bothersome, especially because he's so secretive about it. It feels like he's throwing the claim out there and hoping he can buy townie points; the question is, why? And why isn't he being fully honest with us? It doesn't seem like something a townie would do. Leaning scum, with the caveat that if he's telling the truth (the complete truth), then he's probably town. That ability seems counterproductive on a scum in its claimed form.
3. RafaelK - His plan (lynch HC, use CPE's shuffle, then see where that leaves us) seems reckless on several levels. I will admit that HC's not instilling me with a lot of confidence, and has not shown us that his pirate "restriction" is completely honest, but I think that trusting the fate of the town on a mass claim plus the shuffle is dangerous, and that if CPE isn't telling the truth, then we're flat-out screwed. I think CPE's too dangerous to take that chance, especially with his secrecy. However, this entire strategy seems like a rather townie policy. Leaning town
4. Azrael - Hasn't contributed much, for fairly obvious reasons. Neutral/Leaning town
5. bateleur - His plan (vig CPE) is rather reckless, as I mentioned above. Remember, we're three townie kills off a very quick end, and using the vig seems like the town equivalent of suicide. I think Rafk's point that bat's trying to "egg me on", in a sense, is rather valid, and it's a good reason to be suspicious of bat. I somewhat doubt that bateleur and Rafk are on the same side (although it wouldn't surprise me much), so I think bat's Leaning scum. The fact that he wants me to vig CPE is probably a point in CPE's favor, of course.
6. Hunted Charlie - Doesn't fill me with a lot of confidence, but doesn't strike me as overtly scum. His post wasn't great, although I don't think it was "scum post of the year" as Rafk asserts. I could see HC going either way at this point - either misguided townie or scum. Neutral 7. AlphaInsidious - I can't remember the last time this guy posted. I need to do a review of what he said. If any player deserves a PBPA, it's probably him. For the moment, I'll withhold judgment on him.
8. ZeDorkSlipeur - Town. I've seen no immediate indication to the contrary.
9. Xyre - Obviously town.
At this point, I'm a bit baffled by the combinations of targets. I'm not entirely sure how CPE, bat, and Rafk fit together; I'd wager that at least one of them is scum. My guess at this point is bat, Alpha, and HC, although I doubt that's entirely correct. I'm not really confident about any of my predictions for this game.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
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<Limited Clan>
Perhaps, but I just want to say that the town would probably lose as a result.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
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<Limited Clan>
If we don't lynch a townie today, then no.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
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<Limited Clan>
Not yet atleast, I will use the ability later.... but not now.
Maybe, personally, I am fine staying vanilla untill necessary, but I think in the end the ability will help town more. This you will probably learn tommorrow
I am not, if you want to get somewhere in killing scum, this is not the way to do it.
@Xyre: Just a warning, if you dont want to waste your vig, you wont do it.
Whoops, I just realized I got it backward. If we lynch a townie, I won't. If we lynch a scum, I'll consider it. At this point, however, I don't think he's likely scum.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
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<Limited Clan>
Fine. Unless someone can convince me that CPE is scum, I'd have to say I don't want him vigged. Take that as you will.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Well... it's not a "yes", which is all that matters.
It is clear to me your roleclaim is bogus.
Unvote
Vote: Xyre
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<Limited Clan>
So my roleclaim is bogus because I'm unwilling to shoot CPE because I don't think he's scummy? How does that make sense?
To me, this feels like you're lashing out because I don't support your plan. But that's just me.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
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<Limited Clan>
If the majority can convince me that CPE is scum, give me a call. Until then, stop telling me to kill him.
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
Experiments Series: #5 (Courtly Intrigue Mafia) | #4 (Drunken Tracker) | #3 (Big Red Button) - coming soon | #2 (Pope Mafia) | #1 (Iso's Inflammable Mafia)
Mini Games: MTGS Mafia Redux II (Invitational, Evil Mirror Universe) | Unreal City
Old Games (bad): The Greenwood Affair | Blood Moon Mafia
ZDS: I'm sorry that you think it's random when I say it's insincere that HC says stuff like "I'm amazed I didn't see it earlier" when bat had only just done it, or when I say it's backpedalling when HC backpedals, but eh. You just joined him on the potential scum list for proposing a no lynch plan, which is very nearly as dumb.
I keep swaying on this. CPE's role itself doesn't seem scummy to me at all, but the way he's playing it does. So, I guess, here's my final position:
I am in support of a vig-kill on somebody who is likely scum tonight. Whether that is CPE or somebody else, I'm still working out. But I'm all for the vigkill.
Yet you have CPE listed as one of your top three scum in your list. Sooo... you think he's scum, you just think he shouldn't be killed? How about we just stare down the scum and wait for them to kill themselves?
How would I do that? I keep messing it up, but that is as often town as scum.
Do you think being secretive will help, at all? It's drawing far more attention than just answering honestly would. It seems more like a scare tactic to me than anything else
Why wouldn't you kill somebody who you claim is one of the top three scum? Either you cannot make a kill at all, or your kill is the mafia kill-- and you don't want to kill one of your own. None of this looks good for you.
OMG BACKPEDALING!!!!!! YOU USED TO HAVE ONE OPINION AND YOU HAVE ANOTHER!!!!1111!!1!111
This OMGUS is very, very obvious. And even if he did propose a "dumb" plan, whatever happened to the "bad play vs. bad logic" thing? I don't think that makes him scum.
My scumlist (ordered scummiest first):
1) Xyre - Day 1 horrible responses, mediocre claim, refusal to vig one of his top scum suspects, bad reasoning in that situation
2) Bateleur/RafaelK - One or both is mafia. As RafaelK pointed out, Bateluer has made some bad moves. On the other hand, as I and others are pointing out, RafaelK is playing scummily and being very very overaggressive. My current diagnosis is that Bateleur is just a bit misguided (all he's done was suggest a few subpar plays) while RafaelK is scummy and just trying to finish off the town fast, thus the overaggressiveness. After all, at this point in the game a town should be careful
3) Creampuffeater - Odd secrecy, useless roleclaim, no mention of important role change until asked, ties with Xyre
Thus, the Xyre vigging CPE plan sounds pretty good to me now. Xyre vigging RafaelK actually sounds pretty good too, but since I haven't fully decided between RafaelK and Bateleur, I don't think we should do that right now.[/font]
So the vigging plan which could lose tonight is your version of careful
You and bateleur are extremely scum and extremely caught.