So I've been invited to play with some people, but to do that I'll need a deck. The problem is that I have next to no money to spend on the game. I'd like people's help in coming up with something that has no single card in it that goes for more than one dollar, and it'd be nice if it was Standard legal so I can play in FNM. I know that's a really tall order to fill, and I don't expect this will be anything great. Let's do the best we can!
1. Save your FNM cash; to be quite honest, you're not going to win anyway...
2. Use the cash you saved from FNMs to buy more expensive cards that might actually give you a shot.
3. Once you have a deck that's decent enough to stand a chance at competitive tourneys, start playing FNM and feed the winnings back into the game.
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People hiss and grunt at Mark Rosewater for the state of the game. Few realize, though, that it is Aaron Forsythe who is directly responsible of the current state of affairs due to negligence as head of Magic R&D and a completely skewed view of the game as a whole.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
Refer back to my suggested list, and by all means claim she couldn't possibly win in a meta quickly transitioning through rotation. With all of the high-concept aggro in the format, RDW rotating out, Fae losing their Rune Snags, and Toast having no way of winning outside of Oona, how would ANYONE running Smog not have a very good chance of pulling through with a top 3 finish?
I've lost one game in the last two weeks while running Smog (out of roughly twelve games on MWS) against quality opponents (I don't take poorly constructed decks into account when recording testing results), and that was due to the aforementioned Oona sticking without handing me a Syphon Life until it was too late.
The panoramas produce mana immediately when they come out, though only colorless. The expanse, you have to wait for it.
In a deck with such a low, color-dependant curve, colorless mana doesn't really matter. I'd rather pump a nacatl to the full 3/3 and fix my mana at the same time, than get a colorless mana.
Gezz... some people forget that playing is FUN and our goth girl likes kitties that go rawr!!!! Cat power rock on!!
Do spare me the "Timmy hates Spike" bravado. S/he said she had a very limited card budget; I merely suggested that spending a significant amount of the limited budget playing in tournaments you're not going to have a realistic shot at winning is not smart.
Casual play is free, it's fun, and it allows you to build up your collection to the point where you can actually start to think about competitive play.
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People hiss and grunt at Mark Rosewater for the state of the game. Few realize, though, that it is Aaron Forsythe who is directly responsible of the current state of affairs due to negligence as head of Magic R&D and a completely skewed view of the game as a whole.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
I merely suggested that spending a significant amount of the limited budget playing in tournaments you're not going to have a realistic shot at winning is not smart.
To which I suggested she simply play a better deck, while maintaining the same budget restrictions. At this moment in time, with such a crippled meta, aggro comes out supreme. It has been that way for a long, long time, and it has stayed that way even now. How would she -not- have a "realistic shot at winning" by running what is simply the BEST anti-aggro deck in the format currently, while still allowing decent game vs. control post-sideboard?
Aside from net decks, it is -very- rare that I see a domineering control tech zooming around (at least my local) FNM, but every single time I go I ALWAYS see little Timmy, thinks-he's-tech-mid-range guy, and Spike running the most appealing creature-based deck they can put together. If you can reasonably annihilate everything you KNOW is coming, then all you really have to do is try to fill the voids that are readily apparent, and find out how well you built your deck when the night comes.
$7!?! Ouch. I am lucky that I get to enjoy FNM's that are $3 a piece :P.
Back to the point, do you guys want to argue about whether or not she should attend FNMs or not or discuss the deck that she wants to play at said FNMs. Stop telling people what to do with their money/free time and help her with the question she posted. If she wanted advice on whether she should attend FNMs or not she would ask.
Anyways, on the Naya Panorama/Terramorphic Expanse debate, its easy. Obviousl don't run either, but if you would have to choose, Expanse wins easy. It is free to fetch and the colorless that the Panorama produces honestly doesn't matter at all.
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Currently playing: EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Do spare me the "Timmy hates Spike" bravado. S/he said she had a very limited card budget; I merely suggested that spending a significant amount of the limited budget playing in tournaments you're not going to have a realistic shot at winning is not smart.
Casual play is free, it's fun, and it allows you to build up your collection to the point where you can actually start to think about competitive play.
pretty much this. casual is better practice than throwing 3-7 dollars every single week. to the OP: trust me, try the turbosmog list. give it a shot at FNM, and give casual a shot as well.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
$7!?!
Back to the point, do you guys want to argue about whether or not she should attend FNMs or not or discuss the deck that she wants to play at said FNMs. Stop telling people what to do with their money/free time and help her with the question she posted. If she wanted advice on whether she should attend FNMs or not she would ask.
Exactly!!
When I saw the thread name I was reminded of this deck
I even like Skyhunter Skirmisher. for the deck ... it would handle Bitterblossom tokens nicely and if the deck ran 6-8 pump effects ... it could be sick .. giant growth for 8 damage?
the deck would not need more than 20-21 lands..very efficient creatures for cheap.
Casual play is free, it's fun, and it allows you to build up your collection to the point where you can actually start to think about competitive play.
You've missed one quantifiable variable that she wants, that without, makes Magic so infuriating to play at times: Social value.
She has been invited to play FNM with friends.
I've had to deal with many jerks who think that playing to win is the only thing that matters in a tournament. They come in all forms. There's the kind that threaten you with disqualification if you try to answer a cell phone call from your mother. There's the kind of people that grind in MMORPGs and ostracize their supposed "friends" because their friends' characters are not optimal. I had to deal with one of them at the Alara release tournament. He had a Carrion Thrash in play and I killed another one of his creatures. He tapped two mana and put the card back in his hand:
Me: "How did you do that?"
Him: "Carrion Thrash. Finish your turn."
Me: "Wait, I don't think that's how that card works."
Him: "Whenever a creature goes to the graveyard, I can pay 2."
I lean in to look at the card, politely giving him the benefit of the doubt, even though I know he's wrong.
Me: "Are you sure that's what the card says?"
He then tosses the card at me.
Him: "Read the ******* card!"
So I read the card out loud. He immediately snatches it back from me and reads it himself, as if I was lying. He then puts the creature back from his hand to his graveyard.
Him: "Finish your turn."
Me: "I would appreciate it if you didn't swear at me in the future."
Him: "Finish your turn or I'll call you out on slow-playing."
I didn't want to make it an issue, so I finished my turn. At this point I just wanted the game to end as fast as possible. With people like him and you playing Magic, it's no wonder all my friends who attend tournaments for the social value (5 or 6 of them) have quit Magic.
Do you understand what you're telling her?
You're telling her to sit in her room, alone, grinding, and playing catch-upuntil she can make an appearance not based on her urge to be social (a natural need in normal humans), but based on the quality of her deck.
Do you understand what you're telling her to tell her friends?
"Sorry, I'm not going to visit and play with you guys because it would just be a waste of money."
Yeah.
You know who says something like that?
Social rejects.
Congratulations, social rejects, you've won the game, but you're still losers in the real world.
You've missed one quantifiable variable that she wants, that without, makes Magic so infuriating to play at times: Social value.
She has been invited to play FNM with friends.
I've had to deal with many jerks who think that playing to win is the only thing that matters in a tournament. They come in all forms. There's the kind that threaten you with disqualification if you try to answer a cell phone call from your mother. There's the kind of people that grind in MMORPGs and ostracize their supposed "friends" because their friends' characters are not optimal. I had to deal with one of them at the Alara release tournament. He had a Carrion Thrash in play and I killed another one of his creatures. He tapped two mana and put the card back in his hand:
*KOOL CHAT LOG BRO*
I didn't want to make it an issue, so I finished my turn. At this point I just wanted the game to end as fast as possible. With people like him and you playing Magic, it's no wonder all my friends who attend tournaments for the social value (5 or 6 of them) have quit Magic.
Do you understand what you're telling her?
You're telling her to sit in her room, alone, grinding, and playing catch-upuntil she can make an appearance not based on her urge to be social (a natural need in normal humans), but based on the quality of her deck.
Do you understand what you're telling her to tell her friends?
"Sorry, I'm not going to visit and play with you guys because it would just be a waste of money."
Yeah.
You know who says something like that?
Social rejects.
Congratulations, social rejects, you've won the game, but you're still losers in the real world.
ok, so wait a sec. are you saying she can't play with her friends sans the fnm charge? no one was telling her to solitaire it out day after day. if her friends can't play with her casually then they're the exact same crowd that abandons friends in MMOs, like you described. qed or do you have yet another nice bout of incorrect rhetoric to throw at us?
nice flame there btw. I also like how you collectively call everyone being economical in this thread complete asses.
PS: if he's threatening you with game loss/DQ for slow play, I don't see how it could be wrong to threaten him with the exact same for manipulation (putting the Thrash in the grave back in his hand).
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
While seppel is being in my view unduly harsh, they're right. FNM isn't the most Spike-heavy, Timmy-hating tournament environment in the world, anyways. You don't need to spend vast amounts of money to make a deck, play it out, and have fun. Even though you may be playing with sub-optimal cards!
I would assume this person's friends play casually too, but if you had a group of friends that all went to FNM and played, would you want to just sit there and wait for them? Or skip FNM altogether for weeks, not learning how to play at all?
my mouth is full of winsome lies -
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
I'd play Twinblade Slasher over Nettle Sentinel, the sentinel is a nice card but it requires deck building choices which aren't so nice. Whereas Mini Rootwalla is fine in almost any situation.
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Saemar is not a wizard, is not fighting on a battlefield and is not casting spells.
Sorry for continueing the derailment of the topic, but I must say two things:
1. Some people will never understand that playing and not winning can still be fun.
2. Some people will never understand that people can be motivated completely by winning, and don't really enjoy themselves if they lose.
An example for point one: The other week I was in a match and was going to lose. It was inevitable, the deck simply had mine beat, and this was only the first deck so far in the tournament (round 4 I think) that this was the case. He swung at me with his guys, two of which had -1/-1 counters on them as I had sided in everlasting torment against his deck (it was a treefolk deck, a really good one). I decided to have some fun by snakeforming one to death via counters. This wasn't the ideal play, but I was taking lethal damage either way (think I snakeformed a dauntless dourbark that would have delt me 6 damage rather than a timber protector that I could have snakeformed and could have blocked the dauntless with something but he had a banneret in the back so the dauntless had trample anyway, I just would have taken slightly less damage or something like that). My opponent didn't get it, and tryed to tell me for about 5 minutes that I could have lost less life with another play and didn't understand hat I didn't care, but wanted to get one more kill out of it rather than losing less life when either way was lethal.
For point two I can't really think of an example as far as magic goes where I've entered a tournament really trying my best to win. But I've done this in sports and other games. If you ask me why I go to tournaments then the answer is that I enjoy seeing how well my deck can do. I could go just spend about $100 for a RDW deck (probably the cheapest t1 deck) and probably do pretty well, maybe even win the tournament, but I'd rather just play some $5 poker with my friends then play a RDW to try to achieve the same result, its cheaper, and in my opinion (and I respect the fact that this is not the case for everyone at all) more fun. Now getting top 8 with my swans/balefire liege deck (it doesn't include seismic assault or dakmore salvage) after slowly perfecting it to be the best that it can be, now that is fun for me.
nice pick! i didnt even think about mirri. its a nice attacker, first strike and vigilance, and can wreck forest players
i have reflecting pool based amnesia whats a forrest?
i heard its those strange taiga clones that dont tap for red
and they are all the rage in draft
but if you are playing budget
what about unwilling recruit sure its red mana intensive
but its a super threaten at best a creature based blaze at worst
also maybe a lil teeg action hes a 3-4 dollar rare as of now and standard format is leaning towards slow control decks
also for side board what about 3x-4x wilt leaf liege
i see some discard in the new agro concepts
like blightning
+ you can fortify your critters to survive firesprouts against
those dirty qnt players
ok chica if you want cheap and good get shield of the oversoul and some wilt-leaf cavaliers, other g-w hybred are good too like hex hunter, and safehold elite, mistmeddow skulk is annoying too, crib swap is good, play it if you have it, screw lash-out its over rated just play incinerate its like explosion sauce...it's good on it's own
could the jund/naya taplands assist with the manabase instead of expanse? I know they CIPT, but so do Villages. they also give interesting splash choices for removal's sake.
Take your monoblack deck, then set aside 14 swamps. Add 4 Creeping Tar Pits, 4 Darkslick Shores, 4 Drowned Catacombs, and 2 Jwar isle Refuge and add 4 Jace, the Mindsculptors. Your monoblack deck is instantly better. Better yet, drop those refuges, throw in some islands and some mana leaks, and lo and behold, you're now playing a real deck. Congratulations. Welcome to the world of competitive M:TG.
Whoops, seems like I started to rant. Sorry for cluttering the thread.
I don't see how I got a flame infraction when I chose my words carefully to avoid flaming anyone. But I won't drag down a wonderful thread to pursue the issue.
Whoops, seems like I started to rant. Sorry for cluttering the thread.
I don't see how I got a flame infraction when I chose my words carefully to avoid flaming anyone. But I won't drag down a wonderful thread to pursue the issue.
I wish I could have written it so well .. my writting .. kinda sucks
anywho..
my version of angry budget kitties I cheated a bit... I would "splurge" for the pair of $2 might of oaks
1. Save your FNM cash; to be quite honest, you're not going to win anyway...
2. Use the cash you saved from FNMs to buy more expensive cards that might actually give you a shot.
3. Once you have a deck that's decent enough to stand a chance at competitive tourneys, start playing FNM and feed the winnings back into the game.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
With a low-quality aggro list, maybe not...
Refer back to my suggested list, and by all means claim she couldn't possibly win in a meta quickly transitioning through rotation. With all of the high-concept aggro in the format, RDW rotating out, Fae losing their Rune Snags, and Toast having no way of winning outside of Oona, how would ANYONE running Smog not have a very good chance of pulling through with a top 3 finish?
I've lost one game in the last two weeks while running Smog (out of roughly twelve games on MWS) against quality opponents (I don't take poorly constructed decks into account when recording testing results), and that was due to the aforementioned Oona sticking without handing me a Syphon Life until it was too late.
High~Light Studios
The panoramas produce mana immediately when they come out, though only colorless. The expanse, you have to wait for it.
In a deck with such a low, color-dependant curve, colorless mana doesn't really matter. I'd rather pump a nacatl to the full 3/3 and fix my mana at the same time, than get a colorless mana.
Do spare me the "Timmy hates Spike" bravado. S/he said she had a very limited card budget; I merely suggested that spending a significant amount of the limited budget playing in tournaments you're not going to have a realistic shot at winning is not smart.
Casual play is free, it's fun, and it allows you to build up your collection to the point where you can actually start to think about competitive play.
So next time you want to make an avvy with Rosewater pissing on something, take a deep breath and consider pasting Forsythe's face there instead...
To which I suggested she simply play a better deck, while maintaining the same budget restrictions. At this moment in time, with such a crippled meta, aggro comes out supreme. It has been that way for a long, long time, and it has stayed that way even now. How would she -not- have a "realistic shot at winning" by running what is simply the BEST anti-aggro deck in the format currently, while still allowing decent game vs. control post-sideboard?
Aside from net decks, it is -very- rare that I see a domineering control tech zooming around (at least my local) FNM, but every single time I go I ALWAYS see little Timmy, thinks-he's-tech-mid-range guy, and Spike running the most appealing creature-based deck they can put together. If you can reasonably annihilate everything you KNOW is coming, then all you really have to do is try to fill the voids that are readily apparent, and find out how well you built your deck when the night comes.
If I play a deck that is solid and I dont loose every match ... no problem, I'm gonna have fun with my friends..
waste of money?
$10.00 for a movie that last an hour and half...
vs
FNM? $7 lasts 4 hours & loads of fun
Sorry but..only really horrible personalities are obsessed with winning. the rest of us can enjoy ourselves and understand play time is just that.
High~Light Studios
Back to the point, do you guys want to argue about whether or not she should attend FNMs or not or discuss the deck that she wants to play at said FNMs. Stop telling people what to do with their money/free time and help her with the question she posted. If she wanted advice on whether she should attend FNMs or not she would ask.
Anyways, on the Naya Panorama/Terramorphic Expanse debate, its easy. Obviousl don't run either, but if you would have to choose, Expanse wins easy. It is free to fetch and the colorless that the Panorama produces honestly doesn't matter at all.
EDH: Whatever 99 BWG cards I feel like playing from my cube.
Legacy: MUC, MBStax, Zoo/Goyf Sligh, Esperzoa (8SeaDrake.dec), WhiteWeenie
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pretty much this. casual is better practice than throwing 3-7 dollars every single week. to the OP: trust me, try the turbosmog list. give it a shot at FNM, and give casual a shot as well.
Exactly!!
When I saw the thread name I was reminded of this deck
I even like Skyhunter Skirmisher. for the deck ... it would handle Bitterblossom tokens nicely and if the deck ran 6-8 pump effects ... it could be sick .. giant growth for 8 damage?
the deck would not need more than 20-21 lands..very efficient creatures for cheap.
good times
Cat power Rawr!!!
High~Light Studios
You've missed one quantifiable variable that she wants, that without, makes Magic so infuriating to play at times: Social value.
She has been invited to play FNM with friends.
I've had to deal with many jerks who think that playing to win is the only thing that matters in a tournament. They come in all forms. There's the kind that threaten you with disqualification if you try to answer a cell phone call from your mother. There's the kind of people that grind in MMORPGs and ostracize their supposed "friends" because their friends' characters are not optimal. I had to deal with one of them at the Alara release tournament. He had a Carrion Thrash in play and I killed another one of his creatures. He tapped two mana and put the card back in his hand:
Me: "How did you do that?"
Him: "Carrion Thrash. Finish your turn."
Me: "Wait, I don't think that's how that card works."
Him: "Whenever a creature goes to the graveyard, I can pay 2."
I lean in to look at the card, politely giving him the benefit of the doubt, even though I know he's wrong.
Me: "Are you sure that's what the card says?"
He then tosses the card at me.
Him: "Read the ******* card!"
So I read the card out loud. He immediately snatches it back from me and reads it himself, as if I was lying. He then puts the creature back from his hand to his graveyard.
Him: "Finish your turn."
Me: "I would appreciate it if you didn't swear at me in the future."
Him: "Finish your turn or I'll call you out on slow-playing."
I didn't want to make it an issue, so I finished my turn. At this point I just wanted the game to end as fast as possible. With people like him and you playing Magic, it's no wonder all my friends who attend tournaments for the social value (5 or 6 of them) have quit Magic.
Do you understand what you're telling her?
You're telling her to sit in her room, alone, grinding, and playing catch-upuntil she can make an appearance not based on her urge to be social (a natural need in normal humans), but based on the quality of her deck.
Do you understand what you're telling her to tell her friends?
"Sorry, I'm not going to visit and play with you guys because it would just be a waste of money."
Yeah.
You know who says something like that?
Social rejects.
Congratulations, social rejects, you've won the game, but you're still losers in the real world.
Flame infraction.
-Shin
ok, so wait a sec. are you saying she can't play with her friends sans the fnm charge? no one was telling her to solitaire it out day after day. if her friends can't play with her casually then they're the exact same crowd that abandons friends in MMOs, like you described. qed or do you have yet another nice bout of incorrect rhetoric to throw at us?
nice flame there btw. I also like how you collectively call everyone being economical in this thread complete asses.
PS: if he's threatening you with game loss/DQ for slow play, I don't see how it could be wrong to threaten him with the exact same for manipulation (putting the Thrash in the grave back in his hand).
I would assume this person's friends play casually too, but if you had a group of friends that all went to FNM and played, would you want to just sit there and wait for them? Or skip FNM altogether for weeks, not learning how to play at all?
and eyes are full of death besides
but luckily the soul is wise -
it sees beyond my blindness and
forced failure makes a better guise,
so as i come again alive,
it feels like life's a decent plan
1. Some people will never understand that playing and not winning can still be fun.
2. Some people will never understand that people can be motivated completely by winning, and don't really enjoy themselves if they lose.
An example for point one: The other week I was in a match and was going to lose. It was inevitable, the deck simply had mine beat, and this was only the first deck so far in the tournament (round 4 I think) that this was the case. He swung at me with his guys, two of which had -1/-1 counters on them as I had sided in everlasting torment against his deck (it was a treefolk deck, a really good one). I decided to have some fun by snakeforming one to death via counters. This wasn't the ideal play, but I was taking lethal damage either way (think I snakeformed a dauntless dourbark that would have delt me 6 damage rather than a timber protector that I could have snakeformed and could have blocked the dauntless with something but he had a banneret in the back so the dauntless had trample anyway, I just would have taken slightly less damage or something like that). My opponent didn't get it, and tryed to tell me for about 5 minutes that I could have lost less life with another play and didn't understand hat I didn't care, but wanted to get one more kill out of it rather than losing less life when either way was lethal.
For point two I can't really think of an example as far as magic goes where I've entered a tournament really trying my best to win. But I've done this in sports and other games. If you ask me why I go to tournaments then the answer is that I enjoy seeing how well my deck can do. I could go just spend about $100 for a RDW deck (probably the cheapest t1 deck) and probably do pretty well, maybe even win the tournament, but I'd rather just play some $5 poker with my friends then play a RDW to try to achieve the same result, its cheaper, and in my opinion (and I respect the fact that this is not the case for everyone at all) more fun. Now getting top 8 with my swans/balefire liege deck (it doesn't include seismic assault or dakmore salvage) after slowly perfecting it to be the best that it can be, now that is fun for me.
i have reflecting pool based amnesia whats a forrest?
i heard its those strange taiga clones that dont tap for red
and they are all the rage in draft
but if you are playing budget
what about unwilling recruit sure its red mana intensive
but its a super threaten at best a creature based blaze at worst
also maybe a lil teeg action hes a 3-4 dollar rare as of now and standard format is leaning towards slow control decks
also for side board what about 3x-4x wilt leaf liege
i see some discard in the new agro concepts
like blightning
+ you can fortify your critters to survive firesprouts against
those dirty qnt players
Budget deck wins:
4 Nettle Sentinel
4 Llanowar Elves
4 Wren's Run Vanquisher
4 Bramblewood Paragon
4 Imperious Perfect
4 Boggart Ram Gang
4 Puncture Blast
4 Flame Javelin
9 Forest
7 Mountain
4 Terramorphic Expanse
I guess with more money you can invest in the mana base. Karplusan Forest, Treetop Village and stuff.
could the jund/naya taplands assist with the manabase instead of expanse? I know they CIPT, but so do Villages. they also give interesting splash choices for removal's sake.
I don't see how I got a flame infraction when I chose my words carefully to avoid flaming anyone. But I won't drag down a wonderful thread to pursue the issue.
I wish I could have written it so well .. my writting .. kinda sucks
anywho..
my version of angry budget kitties I cheated a bit... I would "splurge" for the pair of $2 might of oaks
3 Forest
3 Plains
3 Mountain
3 Jungle Shrine
2 Terramorphic Expanse
2 Naya Panorama
2 Vivid Meadow
2 Vivid Grove
4 Wild Nacatl
2 Mirri, Cat Warrior
3 Qasali Ambusher
4 Skyhunter Skirmisher
4 Woolly Thoctar
2 Spirit of the Hearth
Spells
3 Incinerate
3 Puncture Blast
2 Naya Charm
3 Sigil Blessing
2 Might of Oaks
4 Lightning Talons
4 Oblivion Ring
Now if only could get my wife to play this game ...
High~Light Studios