Restock makes #6 and no Regrowth on the list at all? Surprising. We cut Restock for being overcosted, and much weaker than other cards with similar cost/effect (like All Suns' Dawn). Regrowth at 1G has always been better for us. Has it been an under-performer in the cube you play in?
I guess I'm the only one that regularly abusesCaller of the Claw? Every time I resolve that card it's a blowout. Three (or more) 2/2's for 2G at Instant speed.
I guess I'm the only one that regularly abusesCaller of the Claw? Every time I resolve that card it's a blowout. Three (or more) 2/2's for 2G at Instant speed.
I guess I'm the only one that regularly abusesCaller of the Claw? Every time I resolve that card it's a blowout. Three (or more) 2/2's for 2G at Instant speed.
Nasty.
I've always had the same problem with Caller of the Claw as I have had with Stonecloaker (only more pronounced). Namely that counting on having multiple creatures out and having three mana up is too often a pipe dream. Clearly the card can be a blowout, but the downside of being completely (sorta) useless in way too many situations (topdeck, no creatures out, no mana up, token creatures) kept it far off my list.
@ Phantizle: A 2/2 Flash Elf for 3 isn't completely useless though, even in the worst case scenario. Once every few games it does something mad and gets 4-5 creatures after a Wrath at end of turn and wins the game right there and then. However, I wouldn't top 20 it as its really really busted moments are quite situational. I can see the comparion to Stonecloaker, but how is it more pronounced? Having a hand with Stonecloaker and no creatures in play is far worse than Caller. And that's coming from a big Stonecloaker fan
As an aside, Looks like I really need Rude Awakening. That card seems very highly rated.
I know I'm a bit late on the debate, but Gift's Given is a house. It is definitly in the top 2 for powerful blue cards. I had to take it out because of how unfair it was.
@ Phantizle: A 2/2 Flash Elf for 3 isn't completely useless though, even in the worst case scenario. Once every few games it does something mad and gets 4-5 creatures after a Wrath at end of turn and wins the game right there and then. However, I wouldn't top 20 it as its really really busted moments are quite situational. I can see the comparion to Stonecloaker, but how is it more pronounced? Having a hand with Stonecloaker and no creatures in play is far worse than Caller. And that's coming from a big Stonecloaker fan
As an aside, Looks like I really need Rude Awakening. That card seems very highly rated.
Good point on Caller. I guess I was a tad too hard. Speaking of which...
I don't understand why Rude Awakening is so high for everyone. Once again, the upside of the card is tremendous, but the downside of being mostly useless until you have eight mana is fairly large.
On the same note, I'm gald to see Sylvan Library getting the love it deserves. Cheap card filtering is damn near priceless in limited, and as much as we like to think of cube decks as being more like constructed decks, we still have a lot of problems that come with limited decks. I was shocked to see Brainstorm left off the blue top 20, though god knows it's tough to argue with the power level of the cards on that list.
I guess what I'm saying is, it's easy to praise the cards that win you the game, but don't overlook the cards that prevent you from losing the game. If you keep a two land hand, lay a sylvan library on turn two and have land in spots 4 and 5 of your library, that's a game you are losing without library.
I don't understand why Rude Awakening is so high for everyone. Once again, the upside of the card is tremendous, but the downside of being mostly useless until you have eight mana is fairly large.
Agree.
It's a good card. However, it costs EIGHT, and it's a sorcery. It can win the game when and if it resolves. So can every other card that costs 7+ mana. <shrug>
It's a good card, but I don't think it's worthy of a #1 or #2 slot... at all.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Aww I missed out on green, didn't have a cpu all weekend. Boo.
Also @ DerBK Doubling Season does not work with P-Walkers as you had mentioned. The P-Walker ability is part of the cost of the ability, not an "effect" as specifed on Doubling Season. Sorry. I used to think it worked as well but was promptly corrected.
Because I have a meeting in a few minutes and won't have everything compiled as soon as I thought I would -- you have about 30 minutes to get your final votes in.
Fair enough? I'll officialy open voting again, but will close again at 10:30 AM Pacific.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
It's a good card. However, it costs EIGHT, and it's a sorcery. It can win the game when and if it resolves. So can every other card that costs 7+ mana. <shrug>
It's a good card, but I don't think it's worthy of a #1 or #2 slot... at all.
Would you pay eight mana to win the game? because that what the card does in practice. Ramp into awakening, bounce and counter into awakening, just include it in a midrange deck and randomly win a game - what's better?
At the very least they come into play with double counters, often with ultimate ready. Chandra coming into play with 12 counters or Liliana with 10 is quite sick. Sarkhan Vol is especially hilarious, coming into play with 10 dragons at the ready :D. Ajani Goldmane, Garruk and Elspeth deal with tokens/counters on their abilities so they get an additional bonus too.
Nah, even if the activation costs won't put double counters on the 'Walkers, a Walker dropped into an active Doubling Season is still busted in half.
That is true, I thought you were referring to the abilities of the walkers. Don't get me wrong Doubling Season is very good but I just wanted to point that out.
Red Voting has now started.
I will add cards as I see them voted for. Feel free to point out specific adds on your vote posts. I can feel 20 voters on this go-round...
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
May as well do it now...check Post # 246 for added cards.
For some reason, Wheel of Fortune wasn't on the original list! It's since been edited.
That'll give the first 3 guys who posted time to go back and revise (if necessary).
LATE EDIT: We'll be shutting down Red's Voting on Thursday afternoon. White will go up no later than Friday morning, and voting will be open through the weekend, ready to close down Monday afternoon-ish. Is this agreeable in general?
EVEN LATER EDIT: It appears as if Mind Twist's stranglehold on the only Unanimous #1 will remain through 4 groups. At this point, I think it'll be difficult given White's and Brown's (Artifacts) powerful cards, and no clear #1. I think Land has a chance at knocking it off though...
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Restock makes #6 and no Regrowth on the list at all? Surprising. We cut Restock for being overcosted, and much weaker than other cards with similar cost/effect (like All Suns' Dawn). Regrowth at 1G has always been better for us. Has it been an under-performer in the cube you play in?
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
1) Rude Awakening
2) All Sun's Dawn - that's a perfect P1P1
3) Survival of the Fittest
4) Tarmogoyf
5) Garruk Wildspeaker
6) Plow Under
7) Call of the Herd
8) Regrowth
9) Genesis
10) Rancor
11) Blastoderm
12) Phantom Centaur
13) Thornling
14) Chameleon Collosus
15) Indrik Stomphowler
16) Harmonize
17) Natural Order
18) Eternal Witness
19) Sakura-Tribe Elder - though I'd really not want this card to be my first pick
20) Krosan Tusker - also not a first pick
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
Nasty.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
you're not the only one.
I've always had the same problem with Caller of the Claw as I have had with Stonecloaker (only more pronounced). Namely that counting on having multiple creatures out and having three mana up is too often a pipe dream. Clearly the card can be a blowout, but the downside of being completely (sorta) useless in way too many situations (topdeck, no creatures out, no mana up, token creatures) kept it far off my list.
As an aside, Looks like I really need Rude Awakening. That card seems very highly rated.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
19 Eternal Witness
18 Rude Akakening
17 All Sun's Dawn
16 Birds of Paradise
15 Regrowth
14 Genesis
13 Sylvan Library
12 Plow Under
11 Garruk Wildspeeker
10 Blastoderm
09 Berserk
08 Indrink Stomphowler
07 Krosan Tusker
06 Harmonize
05 Rancor
04 Sakura Tribe Elder
03 Ravenous Baloth
02 Deranged Hermit
01 Tooth and Nail
Ug, I need to fine tune those number quite a bit.
I know I'm a bit late on the debate, but Gift's Given is a house. It is definitly in the top 2 for powerful blue cards. I had to take it out because of how unfair it was.
Calvin and Hobbes
Cube Tutor
Good point on Caller. I guess I was a tad too hard. Speaking of which...
I don't understand why Rude Awakening is so high for everyone. Once again, the upside of the card is tremendous, but the downside of being mostly useless until you have eight mana is fairly large.
On the same note, I'm gald to see Sylvan Library getting the love it deserves. Cheap card filtering is damn near priceless in limited, and as much as we like to think of cube decks as being more like constructed decks, we still have a lot of problems that come with limited decks. I was shocked to see Brainstorm left off the blue top 20, though god knows it's tough to argue with the power level of the cards on that list.
I guess what I'm saying is, it's easy to praise the cards that win you the game, but don't overlook the cards that prevent you from losing the game. If you keep a two land hand, lay a sylvan library on turn two and have land in spots 4 and 5 of your library, that's a game you are losing without library.
Agree.
It's a good card. However, it costs EIGHT, and it's a sorcery. It can win the game when and if it resolves. So can every other card that costs 7+ mana. <shrug>
It's a good card, but I don't think it's worthy of a #1 or #2 slot... at all.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
Green voting is officially closed.
I'll have the stats compiled in the next few minutes, followed by my TURF -- posted on the Official Cube Rankings Page.
A very sincere THANK YOU to everyone who voted, we had 17 voters, and we missed out on 4 members who had previously voted -- 20 is within reach!!
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
Also @ DerBK Doubling Season does not work with P-Walkers as you had mentioned. The P-Walker ability is part of the cost of the ability, not an "effect" as specifed on Doubling Season. Sorry. I used to think it worked as well but was promptly corrected.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Fair enough? I'll officialy open voting again, but will close again at 10:30 AM Pacific.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
Top 20 Green
20 Survival of the Fittest
19 Genesis
18 Garruk Wildspeaker
17 Eternal Witness
16 Rude Awakening
15 Sylvan Library
14 Plow Under
13 Birds of Paradise
12 Regrowth
11 All Suns' Dawn
10 Deranged Hermit
9 Chameleon Colossus
8 Berserk
7 Sakura-Tribe Elder
6 Krosan Tusker
5 Rancor
4 Ravenous Baloth
3 Tooth and Nail
2 Harmonize
1 Life from the Loam
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
Would you pay eight mana to win the game? because that what the card does in practice. Ramp into awakening, bounce and counter into awakening, just include it in a midrange deck and randomly win a game - what's better?
The list on cube cobra
Read my blog on cube - Latest post June 2nd 2022
That is true, I thought you were referring to the abilities of the walkers. Don't get me wrong Doubling Season is very good but I just wanted to point that out.
Current EDH Decks:
G Multani, Maro-Sorcerer
B Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed
GU Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
Red will be up within the next 60 minutes (it's 11:55AM now).
EDIT (12:17PM):
Here's the Around 50 List for Red...
1 Avalanche Riders
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Grim Lavamancer
1 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
1 Kird Ape
1 Mogg Fanatic
1 Rorix Bladewing
1 Siege-Gang Commander
1 Blistering Firecat
1 Blood Knight
1 Bogardan Hellkite
1 Greater Gargadon
1 Hell's Thunder
1 Jackal Pup
1 Magus of the Scroll
1 Slith Firewalker
1 Jaya Ballard, Task Mage
1 Kumano, Master Yamabushi
1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
1 Taurean Mauler
1 Ancient Hydra
1 Flameblast Dragon
1 Goblin Welder
1 Keldon Marauders
1 Magus of the Moon
1 Skizzik
1 Chandra Nalaar
1 Char
1 Incinerate
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Magma Jet
1 Chain Lightning
1 Banefire
1 Demonfire
1 Fireblast
1 Pillage
1 Wildfire
1 Firebolt
1 Flame Javelin
1 Sneak Attack
1 Arc Lightning
1 Blast From the Past
1 Fireball
1 Hammer of Bogardan
1 Molten Rain
1 Sudden Shock
1 Sulfuric Vortex
1 Word of Seizing
1 Empty the Warrens
1 Fork
1 Incendiary Command
1 Kaervek's Torch
1 Rift Bolt
1 Rolling Earthquake
1 Seal of Fire
1 Seething Song
1 Starstorm
1 Volcanic Fallout
1 Pulse of the Forge
1 Shivan Dragon
1 Zo-Zu the Punisher
1 Skred
1 Goblin Sharpshooter
1 Dwarven Blastminer
1 Wheel of Fortune
Red Voting has now started.
I will add cards as I see them voted for. Feel free to point out specific adds on your vote posts. I can feel 20 voters on this go-round...
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
.
.
.
2. Lightning Bolt
3. Jackal Pup
4. Firebolt
5. Fireblast
6. Incinerate
7. Wheel of Fortune
8. Starstorm
9. Mogg Fanatic
10. Magma Jet
11. Sneak Attack
12. Flametongue Kavu
13. Avalanche Riders
14. Grim Lavamancer
15. Hammer of Bogardan
16. Banefire
17. Zo-Zu the Punisher (Not on list)
18. Siege-Gang Commander
19. Pillage
20. Bogardan Hellkite
2. Grim Lavamancer
3. Flametongue Kavu
4. Banefire
5. Firebolt
6. Sneak Attack
7. Wildfire
8. Starstorm
9. Bogardan Hellkite
10. Chandra Nalaar
11. Siege-Gang Commander
12. Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
13. Skred
14. Goblin Sharpshooter
15. Avalanche Riders
16. Flame Javelin
17. Sulfuric Vortex
18. Pillage
19. Volcanic Fallout
20. Dwarven Blastminer
Can't beat Lightning Bolt! Iconic and powerful.
EDIT: Hmm, I forgot Firebolt.
On spoiled card wishlisting and 'should-have-had'-isms:
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Wheel of Fortune
4 Banefire
5 Demonfire
6 Fireball
7 Rolling Earthquake
8 Blast from the Past
9 Grim Lavamancer
10 Kird Ape
11 Siege-Gang Commander
12 Mogg Fanatic
13 Chandra Nalaar
14 Rakka Mar
15 Akroma, Angel of Fury
16 Fireblast
17 Jackal Pup
18 Wildfire
19 Skred
20 Greater Gargadon
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
For some reason, Wheel of Fortune wasn't on the original list! It's since been edited.
That'll give the first 3 guys who posted time to go back and revise (if necessary).
LATE EDIT: We'll be shutting down Red's Voting on Thursday afternoon. White will go up no later than Friday morning, and voting will be open through the weekend, ready to close down Monday afternoon-ish. Is this agreeable in general?
EVEN LATER EDIT: It appears as if Mind Twist's stranglehold on the only Unanimous #1 will remain through 4 groups. At this point, I think it'll be difficult given White's and Brown's (Artifacts) powerful cards, and no clear #1. I think Land has a chance at knocking it off though...
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3