I wanted to put Arcades Sabboth into a story I am doing, but I know he is dead.
But, HOW dead is he? I don't really read magic storylines not on the wiki. Did they find a body? Could he have escaped? I would like all of the details about his death, if you would be so kind. (and any other info on him.. was he 'good?')
I just want to know exactly how it happened. And to see how believable it would be that he did NOT die. (if you guys say: "No, like, he is really dead dead." I will forget the whole thing)
So,
1) Kristina could have been lying or could have only THOUGHT it was an elder dragon, brother to Chromium.
2) Chromium could have had other brothers/friends. (or bother in this case could have meant 'close friend')
Taylor, I'd be fine with saying Sabboth hate the idea of Leshrac summoning him, and Kristina "killing" him. You could even say that when she killed him, he ascended. Its fan fic man, go to town.
Not to mention that summoning a Legend isn't actually summoning them across the aether but making a copy of them with their ideals out of mana. At least thats how I always took it.
Maybe it was a Lesser Elder, and Kristina just did not know the difference, but Chromium was still pissed about it.
I mean maybe it was another Chromium? Like Chromium XYZ?
I mean, do we KNOW exactly how many ED there were? Piru did not get a card, maybe there where others that did not.
Maybe it was just a mana copy, and they were just pissed because a brother was DEFEATED. Like, it was a pride thing.
I would think Lesrac would summon a dragon with BB in the cost.
(again, this is speaking with complete ignorance, I am just making wild guesses and am looking for someone with real knowledge to say something ;))
I really think the Wiki should be updated with a bit more info. What Mort said here is much more descriptive than what is in the Wiki. It probably should be in the Wiki as he has written it here.
I remember a handful of editorials (among them from the Duelist or WotC-sites) where they said the "real" ED were only 5 (6 counting Piru). And all the others were lesser Dragons and offspawn from those.
But the other stuff could be true then?
I would edit the wiki myself with this extra infomation, but I andMagic Mage had a 'falling out' and she IP banned me.
I guess if the wiki is going to stay as is, I will forget the whole thing. This wiki is the closest thing to something 'official' that exists, and I don't like going against something offical. (since people will then tell me I am wrong, and I will not get to disagree.)
Yeah, I waited for the time when you'll take care of this, Tylor.
The lesson is - anyone can edit the wiki! No need for mods, no need to create an account!
Only, why copy-pasting? This version doesn't sound good as an article...
.
The lesson is - anyone can edit the wiki! No need for mods, no need to create an account!
And someone edited it back:
Hi, concerning your edits on Arcades Sabboth, I had to remove them, since this wiki is intended to be an encyclopedia, rather than a place to speculate and discuss about possible interpretations. Oracle of Truth 00:10, 9 September 2009 (UTC)
To which I responded:
The current information provided is based on speculation and should be removed, than. Nowhere in all of magic history does it say that Arcades
Sabboth is dead. Its misleading to say, using definite terms, that Kristina killed him, when his name has never been used in any magic book or comic book.
If your going to remove my information because its 'speculative' than the whole page should be changed to 'nothing is known about Arcades
Sabboth.' Since that ias the only fact we have, and the current information about his death is speculative.
We don't know he is dead, its never said that she killed him. I am not going to get into an editing war over this, but the current statement:
"He died in a battle between the planeswalkers Leshrac (who summoned the dragon) and Kristina, who killed him. "
Is VERY misleading, since Kristina does not say its Arcades Sabboth that is killed, and only through deductive reasoning, does it even lead to that conclusion.
But the deductive reasoning is not without its flaws.
@Taylor: Ok, since there is a discussion here, I'll respond here.
First, I agree that the last sentence of the current version could be rephrased, maybe "It was implied that he was killed by Kristina" or something along the lines. I probably should not have changed that part. However you will notice that the style of the paragraphs you added does not fit the overall style of an encyclopedia. A lengthy discussion (as compared to the actual information) why something may or may not be true should not be part of the wiki. For that we have the talk pages and the forums.
I have only edited the wiki one other time in my life, and that was to change parts of my OWN wiki page that were wrong.(and then Magic Mage IP banned me for doing it) I know nothing about what 'style' the wiki should be in.
I was TRYING, on this thread, to get someone that DID know more about the 'style' the wiki should be in to update that page, with more information. I left the part already there. I feel that what MORT said in post #5 of this thread should be added to the wiki page. I don't care about the 'style' in which those extra facts are added, only that they are.
MORT pointed out that the 'style' I used was 'wrong,' and I tried editing it, but I don't really know anything about writing MtGS Wiki pages in 'the proper style.' Lets face it, 'style' is a VERY subjective thing anyway, and I don't 'get it' right now.
I will request that someone that DOES know about how to update the wiki page 'the proper way' do it, with the extra information. Since the current information is misleading to the point of being wrong.
Edit: I would edit the page again, and try, again, to make it in the 'proper style,' but I'm not a wiki expert.
I was planning to continue to change the page to make it 'better' but now I am scared that if I do that it will look like I'm being insubordinate, and I will get IP banned again for upsetting the 'gate keepers.'
Well, not sure why Magic Mage banned you, I can only guess that she wrongly assumed the original information was correct.
The short answer is because I made this thread about it: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=139730
Which was the pebble that started the avalanche to get her off the Wiki project. (she was not happy about that)
Maybe if I have some time I would will edit it, now that I have made a new account. I don't know if I will ever be able to put Arcades Sabboth in my comic, but I would like the MtGS wiki to not read "Arcades Sabboth is very dead" if I decide to, since I would have to write a whole set up comic about why he is NOT dead first, and people don't like unfunny set up comics.
Apparently someone asked "how do you make a link" and no one answered for a week. (It was kinda a ridiculously simple question, though. It took me about 10 seconds to figure out how looking at it.)
Yeah, I know it may seem like I am just lazy, but I really felt like someone else should have edited it, and you more or less confirmed that fact MORT.
The use of the comic book page is really cool, and much more informative that anything I could have written (since I have never read the comic)
I also like that the page has more on it. I LOVED the card Arcades Sabboth when I was little, I always felt it was the best of the ED cards. And I was very disappointed when I looked at his wiki page and all I saw was a single paragraph that more or less just said: "Killed by Kristina."
Maybe if we are really luckily someone in wizards will read the wiki page and make Arcades Sabboth show up in a upcoming set. He would be a perfect counterpoint to Nicol Bolas. Which was one or the reasons I was thinking of using him in my comic, since I am planning on making Nicol Bolas be a character. (he will be running hasbro in the next comic)
I thought that, at some point, I might want to have Arcades Sabboth show up, but I guess more wish Wizards would make him show up in a set.
Edit: but, yes, after read the comic it does seem like it might have been Arcades Sabboth. The way he says "forceable summoned" and "destroyed." Another reason why the source itself is better than a second hand description.
I added the blurb for both CV and Zen novels to the Wiki. I am also going to start re-reading the entire Dominaria storyline so I might start putting up summaries for them if I have the time.
I know nothing of Arcades. The Ice age, besides the books, and before that is a little blurry to me since there is no good source for what exactly happened in the sets and the null moon.(If there is point at it so I can read it :-)).
Man, you should really spoiler these things, for the people who also read your webcomic (like myself) - I guess that will be the punchline in the next comic. Well, it just got spoiled (literally).:ugh:
Unlikely, given that the source of this was an untagged spoiler in a wizards article. Chances are he'll show up early on, not as a 'dramatic surprise'. Like, if they have cover images, cover image early on.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cyme we inne frið, fram the grip of deaþ to lif inne ðis smylte land.
Man, you should really spoiler these things, for the people who also read your webcomic (like myself) - I guess that will be the punchline in the next comic. Well, it just got spoiled (literally).:ugh:
Oh! ummmm... sorry
I guess I like knowing stuff early, but its not for everyone. I will try to start using spoiler tags or something... I would tell you about how it's not that bad that I said that because... i will shut up now...
There will also be over 20 links to the MtGS Wiki in the news this time around
But, HOW dead is he? I don't really read magic storylines not on the wiki. Did they find a body? Could he have escaped? I would like all of the details about his death, if you would be so kind. (and any other info on him.. was he 'good?')
Well, the wiki says he is dead and Kristina killed him:
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Arcades_Sabboth
I just want to know exactly how it happened. And to see how believable it would be that he did NOT die. (if you guys say: "No, like, he is really dead dead." I will forget the whole thing)
So,
1) Kristina could have been lying or could have only THOUGHT it was an elder dragon, brother to Chromium.
2) Chromium could have had other brothers/friends. (or bother in this case could have meant 'close friend')
I summon them all the time!
Not to mention that summoning a Legend isn't actually summoning them across the aether but making a copy of them with their ideals out of mana. At least thats how I always took it.
Well, based on everything said here I think that the wiki should be updated to say
"Presumed dead, killed by Lesrac."
While the facts do seem to point to Sabboth being dead, it's not really that clear cut.
Ummm... right... That's what I meant...
Maybe it was a Lesser Elder, and Kristina just did not know the difference, but Chromium was still pissed about it.
I mean maybe it was another Chromium? Like Chromium XYZ?
I mean, do we KNOW exactly how many ED there were?
Piru did not get a card, maybe there where others that did not.
Maybe it was just a mana copy, and they were just pissed because a brother was DEFEATED. Like, it was a pride thing.
I would think Lesrac would summon a dragon with BB in the cost.
(again, this is speaking with complete ignorance, I am just making wild guesses and am looking for someone with real knowledge to say something ;))
I really think the Wiki should be updated with a bit more info. What Mort said here is much more descriptive than what is in the Wiki. It probably should be in the Wiki as he has written it here.
But the other stuff could be true then?
I would edit the wiki myself with this extra infomation, but I andMagic Mage had a 'falling out' and she IP banned me.
I guess if the wiki is going to stay as is, I will forget the whole thing. This wiki is the closest thing to something 'official' that exists, and I don't like going against something offical. (since people will then tell me I am wrong, and I will not get to disagree.)
I did, never heard back, but thanks
I had to make a new account using a proxy server to do it...
I was hoping someone NOT IP banned would...
Edit: let me see if I can correct the cut and pasted bit to sound better. There, I edited it a bit more.
The Elder dragons were maybe walkers, but that was all pre-rev so we've no bloody easy answer.
And someone edited it back:
To which I responded:
The current information provided is based on speculation and should be removed, than. Nowhere in all of magic history does it say that Arcades
Sabboth is dead. Its misleading to say, using definite terms, that Kristina killed him, when his name has never been used in any magic book or comic book.
If your going to remove my information because its 'speculative' than the whole page should be changed to 'nothing is known about Arcades
Sabboth.' Since that ias the only fact we have, and the current information about his death is speculative.
We don't know he is dead, its never said that she killed him. I am not going to get into an editing war over this, but the current statement:
"He died in a battle between the planeswalkers Leshrac (who summoned the dragon) and Kristina, who killed him. "
Is VERY misleading, since Kristina does not say its Arcades Sabboth that is killed, and only through deductive reasoning, does it even lead to that conclusion.
But the deductive reasoning is not without its flaws.
I have only edited the wiki one other time in my life, and that was to change parts of my OWN wiki page that were wrong.(and then Magic Mage IP banned me for doing it) I know nothing about what 'style' the wiki should be in.
I was TRYING, on this thread, to get someone that DID know more about the 'style' the wiki should be in to update that page, with more information. I left the part already there. I feel that what MORT said in post #5 of this thread should be added to the wiki page. I don't care about the 'style' in which those extra facts are added, only that they are.
MORT pointed out that the 'style' I used was 'wrong,' and I tried editing it, but I don't really know anything about writing MtGS Wiki pages in 'the proper style.' Lets face it, 'style' is a VERY subjective thing anyway, and I don't 'get it' right now.
I will request that someone that DOES know about how to update the wiki page 'the proper way' do it, with the extra information. Since the current information is misleading to the point of being wrong.
Edit: I would edit the page again, and try, again, to make it in the 'proper style,' but I'm not a wiki expert.
I was planning to continue to change the page to make it 'better' but now I am scared that if I do that it will look like I'm being insubordinate, and I will get IP banned again for upsetting the 'gate keepers.'
The short answer is because I made this thread about it:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=139730
Which was the pebble that started the avalanche to get her off the Wiki project. (she was not happy about that)
Maybe if I have some time I would will edit it, now that I have made a new account. I don't know if I will ever be able to put Arcades Sabboth in my comic, but I would like the MtGS wiki to not read "Arcades Sabboth is very dead" if I decide to, since I would have to write a whole set up comic about why he is NOT dead first, and people don't like unfunny set up comics.
Its much better now!
http://wiki.mtgsalvation.com/article/Arcades_Sabboth
Well, it does not say "He is 100% dead." Anymore, which is good.
Seems like the wiki is really dead, I just answered a question about it here:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=182336
Apparently someone asked "how do you make a link" and no one answered for a week. (It was kinda a ridiculously simple question, though. It took me about 10 seconds to figure out how looking at it.)
The use of the comic book page is really cool, and much more informative that anything I could have written (since I have never read the comic)
I also like that the page has more on it. I LOVED the card Arcades Sabboth when I was little, I always felt it was the best of the ED cards. And I was very disappointed when I looked at his wiki page and all I saw was a single paragraph that more or less just said: "Killed by Kristina."
Maybe if we are really luckily someone in wizards will read the wiki page and make Arcades Sabboth show up in a upcoming set. He would be a perfect counterpoint to Nicol Bolas. Which was one or the reasons I was thinking of using him in my comic, since I am planning on making Nicol Bolas be a character. (he will be running hasbro in the next comic)
I thought that, at some point, I might want to have Arcades Sabboth show up, but I guess more wish Wizards would make him show up in a set.
Edit: but, yes, after read the comic it does seem like it might have been Arcades Sabboth. The way he says "forceable summoned" and "destroyed." Another reason why the source itself is better than a second hand description.
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I know nothing of Arcades. The Ice age, besides the books, and before that is a little blurry to me since there is no good source for what exactly happened in the sets and the null moon.(If there is point at it so I can read it :-)).
Unlikely, given that the source of this was an untagged spoiler in a wizards article. Chances are he'll show up early on, not as a 'dramatic surprise'. Like, if they have cover images, cover image early on.
Oh! ummmm... sorry
I guess I like knowing stuff early, but its not for everyone. I will try to start using spoiler tags or something... I would tell you about how it's not that bad that I said that because... i will shut up now...
There will also be over 20 links to the MtGS Wiki in the news this time around