Minion Reflector? Holy crap that would be good in this deck. I could find a spot for that. Man, that's gonna be so sick with so many cards in this deck.
And I think Reanimate as well in place of one of my other recursion spells. I like that it can hit their gy as well.
I like Return to Dust, just not sure if I want it over any of my existing ench/art removal.
I been shying away from Hallowed Burial because I would rather a board wipe put my creatures in a graveyard so I can get them back.
Thanks for the suggestions. Minimum I'm going to use two of them.
I've been playing and tweaking this deck for so long now, it's really hard to cut a card for something new (but I will for Minion Reflector). I'm always open to upgrading a card to one that's better at the same job.
Question about Minion Reflector..... with the recent changes in EDH rules, if I copied my General with it, they'd both die, no?
Minion Reflector? Holy crap that would be good in this deck. I could find a spot for that. And I think Reanimate as well in place of one of my other recursion spells. I like that it can hit their gy as well.
I like Return to Dust, just not sure if I want it over any of my existing ench/art removal.
I been shying away from Hallowed Burial because I would rather a board wipe put my creatures in a graveyard so I can get them back.
Thanks for the suggestions. Minimum I'm going to use two of them.
I've been playing and tweaking this deck for so long now, it's really hard to cut a card for something new (but I will for Minion Reflector). I'm always open to upgrading a card to one that's better at the same job.
Question about Minion Reflector..... with the recent changes in EDH rules, if I copied my General with it, they'd both die, no?
Yeah, Minion Reflector doesn't work well with generals as well as any other legendary creatures. But remember, it's amazing with EtB/LtB/graveyard effects. I like Hallowed Burial because you can blink your general and doom all of your opponents' generals in one fell swoop (remember, generals cannot be sent to command zone in place of send to deck effects). Also, if you're worried about your creatures being sent to the bottom of the deck, you can stack GCO's ability and activate it multiple times (not much effect, but sacs needed creatures). And Martial Coup is often a card I tutor for; GCO loves Wrath effects (since they dodge them), and loves tokens (which get left behind). I'd highly recommend it.
EDIT: And if you like tutors, you'll love Planar Portal.
this is a pretty good list, I could make lots of suggestions but just one for the moment... I think Battlegrace is underwhelming as a beater, especially in a color full of them - Akroma, Angel of Wrath would be my first choice. I've been playing GCO for several months and love love love him. Grave Pact is a star in this deck
Slivortal... You've got some good points for hallowed burial. I'll consider that one some more.
Enki.... No argument that Akroma>Battlegrace as a beater, but I went with Battlegrace because she gets on the field quicker, and by the time I could drop an Akroma, I should have my sac/recur engine going (turn 7 Debtors Knell at the latest), in which case I want some etb/ltb effects.
Slivortal & Enki.... Ok, I'll look for a copy and give Return to Dust a trial run. I guess I'll put it in for my Disenchant. You both advocate for Planar Portal. I've never tried it, and it sounds good, but don't you think the cost is a bit high?
Scarlet_blade12.... I never knew about Phyrexian Reclamation. I think you're probably right. I'm going to have to try and get one. I'll put it in for probably zombify.
I'm glad I posted this, these are good recommendations. Thanks for all the input.
Identity Crisis is a major bomb for just 6 mana. It's extremely color intensive, but it simultaneously wipes out one's hand and graveyard. I would consider playing it especially if someone in your area likes to abuse their graveyard.
And +1 to Phyrexian Reclamation. Extremely cheap recursion for great card advantage, and the life payment is balanced out by Ghost Council's life draining.
I agree that Identity Crisis is great, I had been running it, but just took it out when I got a copy of Luminarch Ascension. I'll admit sometimes ICrisis was great, but there were a few times it sat basically useless in my hand (I play mostly 1 vs 1). It was still a tough choice to replace it.
It's so hard to make changes at this point. You'd think that with a 100 card deck, it wouldn't be that tough.
I probably need to replace Wall of Reverence. It's nice, but I'm sure I can find a better creature to put in his spot. And I'd like to find a similar upgrade to Belfry Spirit.
Disenchant out. Replaced with Return to Dust for more power.
Belfry Spirit out. Replace with Bloodghast. I've really got enough token producers anyway and I like that ghast can come out as very early sac fodder and produce more sac targets in the long run than Belfry Spirt.
Expedition Map out. Replaced with Minion Reflector for sheer power over a little utility.
Identity crisis is awesome, and will be one of your best answers to anyone playing blue (kinda hoses their card draw), especially if they are running crucible of worlds (pretty much hosed a friend of mine's Teferi / crucible deck when i hit him with it). Crucible + strip mine can be devastating, especially in a mono blue build, and IC is one of the best ways to kill it - especially if you use Boseiju, who shelter's All to cast it just my two cents, but IMO it's worth a spot in any BW build.
Identity crisis is awesome, and will be one of your best answers to anyone playing blue (kinda hoses their card draw), especially if they are running crucible of worlds (pretty much hosed a friend of mine's Teferi / crucible deck when i hit him with it). Crucible + strip mine can be devastating, especially in a mono blue build, and IC is one of the best ways to kill it - especially if you use Boseiju, who shelter's All to cast it just my two cents, but IMO it's worth a spot in any BW build.
I guess I should put it back in. God, what do I take out for it though.
Ok.... Out goes Kor Sanctifiers (I've got enough ench/art removal), in goes Identity Crisis
and while I'm at it, Whispersilk Cloak goes out, Expedition Map goes back in.
I'll give you they're all good cards in this deck, some I've considered, Sign in blood is in there, as well as GB Muse and Phyrexian arena for more draw.
I had not considered Lark/Guide.....If I understand Lark/Guide. Play guide/recur a creature, next turn let it die, evoke Lark, it brings back guide, lark, and one more. Repeat?
And with my Minion Reflector in play it could get even more ridiculous from there.
Works like that? If so, I'm on it. I've got a lark, I'll just have to find a Karmic Guide.
Maybe put in Myojin for Battlegrace Angel
Maybe put in No Mercy for Oblivion Ring
Maybe Bitterblossom for Conqueror's Pledge
baneslayer is indeed the better option of the two angels. However Battlegrace Angel is no slouch either. The fact that Battlegrace Angel costs 27.76 USD (on ebay) less than Baneslayer Angel does... is an argument in favor of Battlegrace Angel in and of itself.
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I had not considered Lark/Guide.....If I understand Lark/Guide. Play guide/recur a creature, next turn let it die, evoke Lark, it brings back guide, lark, and one more. Repeat?
And with my Minion Reflector in play it could get even more ridiculous from there.
Works like that? If so, I'm on it. I've got a lark, I'll just have to find a Karmic Guide.
^This.
If you throw Carrion Feeder or some other sac outlet that doesn't require mana into the mix, you can get pretty crazy. Here's a list of the InfiLark pieces that I run in my deck:
Infinite tokens with Skeletal Vampire, Cloudgoat Ranger and Captain of the Watch. You can also exile all of your opponents creatures with the Butcher. Just sac him with the etb trigger on the stack, the leaves play trigger resolves and does nothing, then you can remove a creature and nothing can bring it back.
Lots of fun tricks you can do with InfiLark!
EDIT: I forgot about Kor Hookmaster and Kor Cartographer. Hookmaster lockdown, or just grab every plains out of your deck right now with the Cartographer.
I have a question: i was looking over your list, and started to wonder why are you using specproc when there are much better token producers out there? Martial Coup and Necromancer's Covenant come to mind, for example.
I have a question: i was looking over your list, and started to wonder why are you using specproc when there are much better token producers out there? Martial Coup and Necromancer's Covenant come to mind, for example.
Only because I like having some early game tokens to work with. I will probably try out Martial Coup if I can get ahold of one.
Looks like Faceless Butcher and some of the Infilark stuff will have to go in.
Syphon Mind. This card is insane in multiplayer games. Crypt Rats. This card will straight win games in 3 turns if you play... Emeria, the Sky Ruin. Should be an auto-include. Mirror Entity. Seems good with all the token generators. Oversold Cemetary. Pretty good g/y recursion as well.
Is there a reason you're not running Sensei's Divining Top? Saying that it's good is an understatement.
I agree it's a really good card, but I honestly wouldn't know what to take out for it. And I've got quite a bit of card draw as it is. Phyrexian Arena has been amazing.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=281358
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EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Have you ever considered Sadistic Sacrament? Kaldratron? Minion Reflector? Mournwhelk? Martial Coup? Reanimate? Phyrexian Gargantua? Hallowed Burial? Return to Dust? These are off the top of my head...
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
And I think Reanimate as well in place of one of my other recursion spells. I like that it can hit their gy as well.
I like Return to Dust, just not sure if I want it over any of my existing ench/art removal.
I been shying away from Hallowed Burial because I would rather a board wipe put my creatures in a graveyard so I can get them back.
Thanks for the suggestions. Minimum I'm going to use two of them.
I've been playing and tweaking this deck for so long now, it's really hard to cut a card for something new (but I will for Minion Reflector). I'm always open to upgrading a card to one that's better at the same job.
Question about Minion Reflector..... with the recent changes in EDH rules, if I copied my General with it, they'd both die, no?
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Yeah, Minion Reflector doesn't work well with generals as well as any other legendary creatures. But remember, it's amazing with EtB/LtB/graveyard effects. I like Hallowed Burial because you can blink your general and doom all of your opponents' generals in one fell swoop (remember, generals cannot be sent to command zone in place of send to deck effects). Also, if you're worried about your creatures being sent to the bottom of the deck, you can stack GCO's ability and activate it multiple times (not much effect, but sacs needed creatures). And Martial Coup is often a card I tutor for; GCO loves Wrath effects (since they dodge them), and loves tokens (which get left behind). I'd highly recommend it.
EDIT: And if you like tutors, you'll love Planar Portal.
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
and I'll second both Planar Portal and Return to Dust (best art/ench removal in the game IMO)
Enki.... No argument that Akroma>Battlegrace as a beater, but I went with Battlegrace because she gets on the field quicker, and by the time I could drop an Akroma, I should have my sac/recur engine going (turn 7 Debtors Knell at the latest), in which case I want some etb/ltb effects.
Slivortal & Enki.... Ok, I'll look for a copy and give Return to Dust a trial run. I guess I'll put it in for my Disenchant. You both advocate for Planar Portal. I've never tried it, and it sounds good, but don't you think the cost is a bit high?
Scarlet_blade12.... I never knew about Phyrexian Reclamation. I think you're probably right. I'm going to have to try and get one. I'll put it in for probably zombify.
I'm glad I posted this, these are good recommendations. Thanks for all the input.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
And +1 to Phyrexian Reclamation. Extremely cheap recursion for great card advantage, and the life payment is balanced out by Ghost Council's life draining.
It's so hard to make changes at this point. You'd think that with a 100 card deck, it wouldn't be that tough.
I probably need to replace Wall of Reverence. It's nice, but I'm sure I can find a better creature to put in his spot. And I'd like to find a similar upgrade to Belfry Spirit.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Disenchant out. Replaced with Return to Dust for more power.
Belfry Spirit out. Replace with Bloodghast. I've really got enough token producers anyway and I like that ghast can come out as very early sac fodder and produce more sac targets in the long run than Belfry Spirt.
Expedition Map out. Replaced with Minion Reflector for sheer power over a little utility.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
I guess I should put it back in. God, what do I take out for it though.
Ok.... Out goes Kor Sanctifiers (I've got enough ench/art removal), in goes Identity Crisis
and while I'm at it, Whispersilk Cloak goes out, Expedition Map goes back in.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
I'll give you they're all good cards in this deck, some I've considered, Sign in blood is in there, as well as GB Muse and Phyrexian arena for more draw.
I had not considered Lark/Guide.....If I understand Lark/Guide. Play guide/recur a creature, next turn let it die, evoke Lark, it brings back guide, lark, and one more. Repeat?
And with my Minion Reflector in play it could get even more ridiculous from there.
Works like that? If so, I'm on it. I've got a lark, I'll just have to find a Karmic Guide.
Maybe put in Myojin for Battlegrace Angel
Maybe put in No Mercy for Oblivion Ring
Maybe Bitterblossom for Conqueror's Pledge
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
baneslayer is indeed the better option of the two angels. However Battlegrace Angel is no slouch either. The fact that Battlegrace Angel costs 27.76 USD (on ebay) less than Baneslayer Angel does... is an argument in favor of Battlegrace Angel in and of itself.
^This.
If you throw Carrion Feeder or some other sac outlet that doesn't require mana into the mix, you can get pretty crazy. Here's a list of the InfiLark pieces that I run in my deck:
2 Karmic Guide
3 Carrion Feeder
4 Nantuko Husk
5 Sadistic Hypnotist
6 Faceless Butcher
7 Highway Robber
8 Kor Hookmaster
9 Kor Cartographer
Sac Highway Robber, then Reveillark, then Karmic Guide with Reveillark's trigger on the stack. Lark brings back Highway Robber and Guide, and Guide brings back Lark. Rinse, wash, repeat, good game.
Or try Faceless Butcher. All the etb effects the deck runs are amazing with him. Hmmm, Butcher comes into play removing Angel of Despair. Sac Butcher, Angel of Despair comes back, etc....
Infinite tokens with Skeletal Vampire, Cloudgoat Ranger and Captain of the Watch. You can also exile all of your opponents creatures with the Butcher. Just sac him with the etb trigger on the stack, the leaves play trigger resolves and does nothing, then you can remove a creature and nothing can bring it back.
Lots of fun tricks you can do with InfiLark!
EDIT: I forgot about Kor Hookmaster and Kor Cartographer. Hookmaster lockdown, or just grab every plains out of your deck right now with the Cartographer.
EDH:
W(W/B)B Ghost Dad W(W/B)B
WBG Teneb, the Wafflestomper GBW
WWWW Isamaru, Hound of Konda WWWW
BBBB Anowan MBC BBBB
Standard:
GWB Epic Junk BWG
BBB Vampire Aggro BBB
Extended:
BG Goyf-Rack GB
UBR Dredge! RBU
Legacy:
BBBB Mono Black Aggro BBBB
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
Only because I like having some early game tokens to work with. I will probably try out Martial Coup if I can get ahold of one.
Looks like Faceless Butcher and some of the Infilark stuff will have to go in.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
Crypt Rats. This card will straight win games in 3 turns if you play...
Emeria, the Sky Ruin. Should be an auto-include.
Mirror Entity. Seems good with all the token generators.
Oversold Cemetary. Pretty good g/y recursion as well.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=519290
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
I agree it's a really good card, but I honestly wouldn't know what to take out for it. And I've got quite a bit of card draw as it is. Phyrexian Arena has been amazing.
Banner by Nakamura, Thanks!
EDH Math
EDH Decks:
Ghost Council: The Magic Mafia of Orzhova
BB Drana: Down with the Sickness
Rasputin: Reality is Broken
Vish Kal Bleeder: Bloody Kisses
Teysa, Orzhov Dominatrix
Stonebrow: Breaking Things
BWR Kaalia Punisher: Heaven's on Fire
Grimgrin: Dead Reckoning