PT Austin thread

[Bowen]

Originally Posted by BlackYoshi

Unfortunate for Van, but he should notice something as basic as his own Angel of Despair trigger, and so should the judge.

Fatigue probably played a huge role here. I've seen and done stupider things myself toward the end of a long tournament.

[magic_nerd345]

At worst it's a GRV Major which more than likely will be a warning depending on other GRV's these players may or may not have. Also it's van's card, but Kibler isn't off the hook for not knowing what the card does either, both of them should have GRV Majors.

[KeySam]

First of all, yes his opponent messed up. That just opens the door for cheating. And second of all, obviously i cant be 100% sure what happened i have no ability to read minds or anything. I just say the evidence we have at hand strongly suggests he knew about the trigger of Angel of Despair, i mean come on you guys say he played around something he missed. Yes i know you can outhink yourself sometimes it happens to everyone of us. And i explained long enough what i think about the may part. All i realy want is some serious investigation, and i still belive he broke the rules on purpose. Do i know it of course not. But a guy who playes around a trigger and states in an interview afterwards, it just didnt kill anything, seemed to know whats going on. Maybe i overreacted a little bit, hei i am also just a human, i am just angry that noone realy seems to care and think he obviously didnt cheat. I dont get that point of view at all, i think the evidence strongly suggest he cheated, it may be true or not. Investigation should be done and if it turns out he actually cheated, he should be DQt.

I am realy sry if i pissed anyone off, that wasnt the purpose of all this. I wanted people to actually talk about that, because i think its important.

KeySam

[BlackYoshi]

Originally Posted by magic_nerd345

At worst it's a GRV Major which more than likely will be a warning depending on other GRV's these players may or may not have. Also it's van's card, but Kibler isn't off the hook for not knowing what the card does either, both of them should have GRV Majors.

Exactly. It's an infraction on both. If Kibler was disqualified, then Van would be too. There's no way you can prove that Kibler knowingly missed the Angel trigger at that point with out telepathy.

[KeySam]

Wait so you can always miss a mandatory trigger on purpose, well thats a good thing to know. Again i am not a judge but i highly doubt that thats the way its handled, because if it is, theres no reason this rule should be in place anyway.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by KeySam

First of all, yes his opponent messed up. That just opens the door for cheating. And second of all, obviously i cant be 100% sure what happened i have no ability to read minds or anything. I just say the evidence we have at hand strongly suggests he knew about the trigger of Angel of Despair, i mean come on you guys say he played around something he missed. Yes i know you can outhink yourself sometimes it happens to everyone of us. And i explained long enough what i think about the may part. All i realy want is some serious investigation, and i still belive he broke the rules on purpose. Do i know it of course not. But a guy who playes around a trigger and states in an interview afterwards, it just didnt kill anything, seemed to know whats going on. Maybe i overreacted a little bit, hei i am also just a human, i am just angry that noone realy seems to care and think he obviously didnt cheat. I dont get that point of view at all, i think the evidence strongly suggest he cheated, it may be true or not. Investigation should be done and if it turns out he actually cheated, he should be DQt.

I am realy sry if i pissed anyone off, that wasnt the purpose of all this. I wanted people to actually talk about that, because i think its important.

KeySam

Did you watch the interview? The way he phrases "He didn't blow up anything" suggests he believed Van had a choice to use the ability, therefore making it a "may" ability. Even aside from how he said it, why would you openly admit to cheating (if you cheated) and not try to cover it up by saying something like "I guess neither of us noticed it until after the match was over"?

As was stated many times already, it's too late to do an investigation. What would turn up from it? Nothing. It would be a waste of time to prove something that can't be proven. If any suspicion existed on his win, an investigation should have commenced immediately after the quarterfinals. It didn't.

You aren't pissing me off, but I just wish you would choose a point and stick with it instead of rephrasing what you're saying so it sounds like something different. There's an obvious difference in what you're arguing when you say "he clearly broke the rules and on purpose." in one post and "I actually said i belive he didnt even knew he was cheating." in another. It's difficult to discuss something when you keep changing your view.

[magic_nerd345]

Obviously there's stricter penalties if it's on purpose, but from the intel i gathered from the video it wasn't on purpose....now if the judge or head judge that was sitting there interviewed them and found that it was on purpose on kibler's part kibler would have been dq'ed and Van would have recieved a GRV major....But something liked this happened a few years ago (when there was table judges present) on 2 different occassions 1. Morena vs star wars kid morena passed the turn with additional mana in pool and should have taken mana burn judges let him back up. 2. He drew cards off a land that needed threshold for the ability to work and the judges had the cards and let him back up and reshuffle his deck. 3. Katsuhiro mori vs frank karsten in the 2005 worlds finals Mori untapped with seedborn muse while Frank Karsten was under the effect of yosei's triggered ability and was able to set up 3 creatures with that mana. These are all in the same league as kibler's and van's missing the trigger on Angel of Despair, Also Howling Mine is a triggered ability and people miss that all the time and get judges called on them...Are you saying that they should be dq'ed as well cuz that is also a triggered ability.

[xiko]

sigh.

Cheating is doing something against the rules with intent of advantage isn't it? It seems what happened here.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by xiko

sigh.

Cheating is doing something against the rules with intent of advantage isn't it? It seems what happened here.

I wasn't aware you had proof of Kibler's intent.

[magic_nerd345]

Originally Posted by xiko

sigh.

Cheating is doing something against the rules with intent of advantage isn't it? It seems what happened here.

the moreno mistake with the threshold land was obvious cheating and he may have gotten an advantage out of it...Also Mori got the biggest advantage because he was able to set up 3 yosei's with the mana he got from "not knowing" the seedborn muse yosei interaction.....But foremost it's the judge's responsibility to make sure no one was cheating intentionally and there was a jduge right there looking at the match in the coverage.

[KeySam]

@magic_nerds there was a difference between these situations. In one you have a player actually playing around the ability he claims to miss. In another both people seemed to messed up. Thats a difference.

@Mr.Pink
Yea like i said i probably overeacted. I cant honestly say i knew whats going on, but i am as sure as you ever can be that he broke the rules intentionally. With this rule theres always going to be a little bit doubt.
And i can tell you why i keep reprasing alot of my arguments, because all the other stuff that came up was the same thing over and over again.

We can break it down to 4 posibilities:

He played around a trigger and then forgot about it(outhought himself)

He thought it was a may trigger.

He cheated with full knowing of the rules

He cheated without knowing what he was doing is considered cheating.

Thats all there is and i think investigating in the form of looking at recordings from the Pro Tour isnt a waste of time.( i mean not the coverage we got i mean the stuff WoTC probably still has)

[magic_nerd345]

Originally Posted by KeySam

@magic_nerds there was a difference between these situations. In one you have a player actually playing around the ability he claims to miss. In another both people seemed to messed up. Thats a difference.

@Mr.Pink
Yea like i said i probably overeacted. I cant honestly say i knew whats going on, but i am as sure as you ever can be that he broke the rules intentionally. With this rule theres always going to be a little bit doubt.
And i can tell you why i keep reprasing alot of my arguments, because all the other stuff that came up was the same thing over and over again.

We can break it down to 4 posibilities:

He played around a trigger and then forgot about it(outhought himself)

He thought it was a may trigger.

He cheated with full knowing of the rules

He cheated without knowing what he was doing is considered cheating.

Thats all there is and i think investigating in the form of looking at recordings from the Pro Tour isnt a waste of time.( i mean not the coverage we got i mean the stuff WoTC probably still has)

Even if they found out that he was cheating intentionally they can't really do anything except suspend him....Also Van told him he had angel in his hand, so he played around that ability thinking it was a may ability and i gurantee you if kibler had played the angel then van would have definately blown up the angel. So your argument here is absolutely rubbish.....

[BlackYoshi]

What the hell are they going to do then? Replay the semifinals? Give it to Ikeda?

Get real. Kibler won, basically on an idiot mistake by Van. The end.

[Mr. Pink]

Originally Posted by KeySam

Thats all there is and i think investigating in the form of looking at recordings from the Pro Tour isnt a waste of time.( i mean not the coverage we got i mean the stuff WoTC probably still has)

What "stuff" Wotc has? I'm pretty sure the DCI handles most of the tournament dealings, but even then what "stuff" could they have? You're taking leaps of logic just to support your belief and aren't listening to what is being told to you (even by judges).

An investigation would have to had occurred immediately following the quarterfinals while the game was still fresh in the player's heads if there was suspicion on foul play, but there was no known suspicion and no investigation after the quarterfinals. It wasn't noticed until the quarterfinal match article was being written and the writer realized there was no target for the Angel. At that point, it is far too late to issue warnings or DQs.

[Club_Funk]

ITT: Butthurt Kibler Activists.

Just jealous of his swagger retainer.