Bolas's Meddling

[Voila!]

I'm well aware of how messed up Alara Unbroken was, but there's one thing in particular that's bugged me for a while. We learn in the book (major spoiler, one of only two true surprises coming up)...

Marisi was, and is Bolas's Naya minion. Apparently, he stirred up the nacatl's empire over Naya centuries ago at Bolas's command, and was granted immortality with regards to age as long as he served Bolas. But there's something I don't get here. The Coil, as it's called, was fractured centuries ago. As in...pre-Mending? So...what, Bolas was on Alara manipulating things that far back? What was he doing there; how could even he could have possibly forseen the Mending? Did he have something else in mind? If so, what?

And before anyone not well versed in the storyline decides to argue that the events of AU occurred "centuries" (come on, give us SOME specific number, WotC, don't be so friggin' vague all the time!) after the Mending took place, we know this not the case. How so? Liliana Vess. She was a pre-Mending 'walker like Bolas, has interacted with Bolas and neowalkers post-Mending, and according to her character profile, she's roughly a century ahead of her perceived age (roughly mid-20's). Therefore, unless time moves faster on Alara by like a factor of 10 compared to the rest of the planes we've seen, Bolas must've been a presence on Alara (Naya at least) and manipulating things ages ago. So...I reiterate, what was his purpose there?

EDIT: Actual question in bold, as apparently some people actually need help in critical reading past a 2nd grade level.

[Syphon]

Oh yeah, you are so awesome, aren't you? You asked "WHAT WAS HE DOING THERE" and I answered. That's ALL you asked. No need to be a jerk about it. You could've been a bit more gracious.

[Voila!]

Dude...did you read my question at ALL?! I did not inquire as to what he was doing on Alara when we saw him; I read friggin' AU, it was heavily implied in on WotC's site and on the cards, and everyone brings it up all the time. How would I NOT know what he was up to during Alara block itself?? After all that data I put up, you didn't read the question at all. I...I just don't get the short attention spans everyone on the Internet has, that's all I'm saying.

[Barinellos]

It's entirely possible he was doing it for kicks and giggles way back when he was still emperor of Madara, as a sort of contingency empire or something like that. Once the mending hit, he was probably like "ho crap! Well, better change THIS plan all to hell."

I mean, think about it, if he could give Marisi immortality, why couldn't he just, I dunno, Target himself with that spell? It would make some sense that he cast that back at the peak of his power.

So, he might have just been preparing the shards to conquer without the foreknowledge that the mending would come and bite him in the ass.

After all, Bolas is enough of a meddler to have his ginormous claws in a dozen different pies at any given time. He did make mention in Time Spiral that he had a nice cozy place prepared for himself and the rest of the multiverse could go eff itself.

[Skibo]

Creative is horrible with dates (See Mirrodin), and avoid them like the plague. And for good reason, they can't seem to come up with a coherant timeline to save thier lives.

Though Vess's file says that

"Today she appears to be in her 20s, but in truth she's over a century old."

The demon pacts restored her youth so she could have been a century old when she contacted the demons. She just appears 20 after the pacts.

We need more information about the exact timeline, but Bolas could have been working behind the scenes for a long time after the mending.

[Brennos]

Originally Posted by Barinellos

After all, Bolas is enough of a meddler to have his ginormous claws in a dozen different pies at any given time. He did make mention in Time Spiral that he had a nice cozy place prepared for himself and the rest of the multiverse could go eff itself.

Basically this. When everyone was kind of standing around towards the end of future sight and starting to wonder what exactly the mending would do to planeswalkers Bolas says that he has a place prepared for such an eventuality. He is the oldest pw out there and always has a plan.

As for the actual time line it seems like we are about two normal human lifespans (~140 years) after the mending. Just from little bits of information all sort of pieced together.

[Syphon]

But Bolas isn't technically a planeswalker. At least, not pre-Mending. He might classify as one post-Mending, but certainly not before. Not in the traditional sense of the word. He had a similiar level of strength but was not a planeswalker. He could travel between planes, yes, but that did not make him a planeswalker. He wasn't any more a planeswalker than the black Myojin was.

[KeeperofManyNames]

Hm, this is a rather interesting point. As Barinellos, Skibo, and Brennos all said, it's not inconceivable that he had Alara as a running experiment for several centuries, an---

Wait, wait, hold on. Even if we assume that Bolas had the forsight to set up plenty of contingency plans like Alara, don't we run into another problem with the timeline? If the Cloud Nacatl empire collapsed a few centuries before Alara Unbroken, and that takes place perhaps roughly one century after the Mending, we still have a problem of how Bolas made a deal with Marisi, considering that at the time he was suffering from the tragic condition of dead. ... I think that last hideous run-on sentence made sense.

The point is, Bolas might not have been alive enough to recruit Marisi, unless he set all of this in motion before even the Phyrexian Invasion occurred. Of course, I could be misremembering the rough time of the Cloud Nacatl Empire's collapse.

Either way, though, Bolas planning this out so far in advance would be one of the most calculating and devious actions we've ever seen. I think it would be more than a little hilarious if his greatest master plot turned out to just be the result of a continuity oversight. Hilarious, and rather telling...


Edit: @Syphon: Where on earth are you getting the idea that Bolas was NOT a Planeswalker? I don't think that's correct at all.

[Skaterbruski]

Syphon, Bolas ascended at the end of the Dragon Wars, and then cemented that when he held The FIRST PLANESWALKER DUEL WITH THE LEVIATHAN. It's like people who have no idea of the storyline, speaking. Plus you're 'A DRAGON', you should know that.

[Syphon]

YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT A BIT MORE GRACIOUSLY, SKATERBRUSKI.
At any rate, I was under the impression that Nicol Bolas had powers equal to a planeswalker without actually being one. You see, he's an Elder Dragon, the likes of which have always been a little different from everything. I always thought that he could planeswalk just like the Myojin of Night's Reach could. And this idea of mine isn't entirely without merit, either:

The chronologically oldest bit of Magic lore we have is that the Elder Dragons ruled the Dominaria, among other planes, many millenia ago until the Elder Dragon Wars--a conflict that shook the planes and killed most of their kind.

How could they have ruled and fought over other planes if they couldn't leave Dominiaria? How's that, mister Ungracious? Do tell, oh wise one! I beseech you to impart your wisdom upon me, oh ye of gratuitous intellect.

[KeeperofManyNames]

WELL SINCE YOU ASKED SO NICELY HOW CAN WE REFUSE

And no, Bolas was a Planeswalker. Hence, as Skaterbruski pointed out, the title of "First Planeswalker Duel". Also, you have to understand two things: the other Elder Dragons being able to travel to other planes does not contradict Bolas's planeswalkerhood in any way, and plenty of creatures from Ye Olde Magique were able to bounce around the planes. Bolas happens to be one that is described in Post-Revisionist continuity repeatedly as a Planeswalker.



Did a brief sweep of the Wiki, and found nothing indicating when the Coil was broken. (Also, was the whole empire referred to as the Cloud Nacatl Empire, or was that just the post-breaking imperial faction? I desperately need to review this stuff, so I'm not just spouting nonsense based purely on memory... ) Bolas died in 4150 or thereabouts, and remains dead for roughly 350 years. Now, if Bolas really had already plotted out a potential use for Alara BEFORE the Mending actually occurred, that means that his plans would have to be over 500 years old.

The question that remains, I suppose, is where Marisi entered the equation. It would have to be either the beginning--making Marisi over 500 years old, or towards the end, meaning that Marisi was a very late addition to Bolas' plans.

If the second is true, that would imply that Marisi actually was only incidental to Bolas's overarching plot. Interesting.

@Voila!: Kudos to you for this potentially intriguing find. I'm afraid that I'm also not really answering your question at this point, but I wanted to delve a little deeper into how the timeline played out. Sorry if I've sort of diverted off your main topic!



Again, it will be hilarious if this incredibly devious set of plans only exists because Creative can't keep their continuity straight.

[Skaterbruski]

Originally Posted by Syphon

YOU KNOW, YOU COULD HAVE DONE THAT A BIT MORE GRACIOUSLY, SKATERBRUSKI.
At any rate, I was under the impression that Nicol Bolas had powers equal to a planeswalker without actually being one. You see, he's an Elder Dragon, the likes of which have always been a little different from everything. I always thought that he could planeswalk just like the Myojin of Night's Reach could. And this idea of mine isn't entirely without merit, either:
How could they have ruled and fought over other planes if they couldn't leave Dominiaria? How's that, mister Ungracious? Do tell, oh wise one! I beseech you to impart your wisdom upon me, oh ye of gratuitous intellect.

I like how you changed this from the post you originally put. The Myojin of nights reach could only planeswalk because of the rifts caused by the Apocolypse chime. I was unaware that the Dragon wars took place on other planes. Regardless of that though, Bolas ascended at the end of the Dragon wars by defeating his foe.

[MORT]

If my memory serves, we have no information on the time when Bolas ascended.
But during his fight with the Leviathan'walker on Dominaria he was already a Planeswalker.

[Barinellos]

Originally Posted by MORT

If my memory serves, we have no information on the time when Bolas ascended.
But during his fight with the Leviathan'walker on Dominaria he was already a Planeswalker.

I remember running across somewhere that he ascended as a result of the world spell that was cast that created the elder land wurms.

for the record, I don't remember where I read it.

[Tezzeret]

I'm sorry, guys, but this discussion is a little pointless, isn't it? Bolas IS a planeswalker, and was one long before the Mending. There's nothing else to say.

On topic: It's just that Wizards' timeline is messed up (again!). Liliana was a pre-Mending planeswalker, and she's "just" over a century old. So the Mending probably happened approx. a century before Agents of Artifice or Alara Unbroken. But AU states Bolas has taken control of the Nacatl Empire centuries ago, which would mean long before the Mending. And that is, of course, not possible, because the Elder Dragon was trappen in the Rift and didn't regain his physical form and power until he was accidentally freed shortly before the Mending.
Sigh, Wizards should really start making a timeline to order things chronologically. If they don't want to show it to us, well then, but they should make it for their own use to avoid such mistakes...