[Development] Esper Cascade Denial (as suggested by Coldlogik)

[dopamine]

New video deck tech is a RGWU version of this deck - I'd be curious as to how he did the manabase as the deck looks solid. I've been trying to find a way to fit in white for Vengeant.

[Galspanic]

Originally Posted by dopamine

New video deck tech is a RGWU version of this deck - I'd be curious as to how he did the manabase as the deck looks solid. I've been trying to find a way to fit in white for Vengeant.

The mana looks pretty rough. Three color seems reliable, but I see where he's going. I have been playing with his a little today and it seems to Blue their lands a lot less consistently. I'm intrigued though and will take it out with me soon.

4C Denial Land
4 Seaside Citadel 2 Jungle Shrine 3 Terramorphic Expanse 4 Misty Rainforest 4 Arid Mesa 1 Scalding Tarn 3 Plains 3 Island 1 Forest 1 Mountain

[Rat Bastardsen]

For a Thompson-like version of this deck, try the list below. Tweak that sideboard though, and instead of the Glacial Fortress run another island and another plains. You'll get the 4 colors you need VERY reliably. Occasionally you'll need to wait a bit for your 6th mana.

Originally Posted by Rat Bastardsen

I liked my Grix Cruel Denial version of this deck, but just a few times I had long games in which I never drew any of my 7 wincons, and my opponent eventually broke my lock and won. That was enough to make me look for something better.

I wanted a version of this deck that:

• runs good cascade cards, not Kathari Remnants (which are admittedly better than they seemed, but don't help to win)
• runs Ajani Vengeant, who should be in any LD deck
• can make turn 2 plays consistently
• can win in 7-8 turns

The first 2 conditions mean that I'm in at least 4 colors. That used to mean Rupture Spires, and frequently not playing a spell on turn 2. I didn't want to accept that, so I came up with this manabase, and this deck:


First, the manabase - there are 12 fetchlands for just 4 basic lands. I've tested a bunch and that is not a problem! It does mean that mid- to late-game I draw fetches that are dead cards, but it also means that I have the colors I need to make the early plays. It's not hard to learn to play smart with this manabase, and it works wonders. I almost always get to 4cc, with all the colors I need, by the 4th turn, and Wurm mana is almost always forthcoming as well. If I'm holding blue enchantments, I'm playing them turn 2, and then proceeding to play 3cc cascade spells on turn 3... and 4cc cascade spells on turn 4. Since all of these spells end in mana denial, that means that I am playing denial every turn after turn 1!

Violent Outburst is one of the few cascading instants, and gives a little more flexibility to playing denial. Unsuspecting opponents will pop a fetchland at the end of your turn, and you can enchant the land they fetch with Violent Outburst before their turn. They will learn quickly to pop their fetches during their main phase of course - when they're ready to use them. It is nice to be able to deny at the end of your opponent's turn. Fetchlands are a problem for us, and if they're pretty well locked down, and play a fetch, we can EOT Violent Outburst targeting their fetchland... which they will be forced to sac, causing our enchantment to fizzle. They have been forced to fetch however, and their land can now be enchanted on our turn, keeping them off those potentially dangerous 2-color situations (B and G for Maelstrom Pulse for example). Ardent Plea is very good though, and 2 make Bloodbraid Elf able to run over putrid Leeches, so it isn't an easy choice, and I'm still debating the 3-3 split.

So there you have it! With this deck nearly every play ends in denial. It handles Jund beautifully. Vampires are pretty well dealt with by siding in Volcanic Fallout. For RDW and Boros, both Fallout and the Wall (DoJ goes out). Seismic Shudder is for the Lotus decks and mana dorks in general - unfortunately they aren't enough much of the time, and I'm still working on that one.

I think the problems this deck has are the same faced by ever version. Mainly, how do we deal with mana dorks? For blue decks we can deny other colors and I think do reasonably well. Has anyone tried siding out Seas and just using Mirage? I'm not worried so much about those unnamed sideboard cards as about the problems that are already run MD. This is something I think we need to brainstorm.

[Echoes000]

i am so pumped that this deck has a deck tech done about it.
maybe it will get some recognition now,

i do prefer the more aggressive version of this deck, as opposed to the one that guy was playing.

[XWiggidyWackX]

This is basically the same version as Gerry Thompson's Spread Em' but with a few tweaks. I made the mana base more budget like and added the 2 BaneSlayer Angels i had. Tell me what u guys think of the mana base.

Land Base
2 Arid Mesa 1 Forest 2 Glacial Fortress 4 Island 2 Jungle Shrine 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Mountain 3 Plains 2 Rupture Spire 2 Scalding Tarn 4 Seaside Citadel 1 Terramorphic Expanse

Deck

Creatures [14] 2 Ajani Vengeant 2 Baneslayer Angel 4 Bloodbraid Elf 2 Sphinx of Jwar Isle 4 Sphinx of Lost Truths Spells [20] 4 Ardent Plea 4 Captured Sunlight 4 Convincing Mirage 4 Day of Judgment 4 Spreading Seas Lands [26] 2 Arid Mesa 1 Forest 2 Glacial Fortress 4 Island 2 Jungle Shrine 2 Misty Rainforest 1 Mountain 3 Plains 2 Rupture Spire 2 Scalding Tarn 4 Seaside Citadel 1 Terramorphic Expanse

[dantcg]

What are some good, budget finishers for this deck?

[Galspanic]

Originally Posted by dantcg

What are some good, budget finishers for this deck?

What version and how Budget are you talking? The finishers in a lot of the Esper decks are Sphinx of Jwar Isle and he's still junk rare priced. And I'll use an exalted Kathari Remnant to beat down about 1/3 of the time as well.

[dantcg]

I think I'll make the list with Violent Outburst and Bloodbraid Elf.

[Galspanic]

Originally Posted by dantcg

I think I'll make the list with Violent Outburst and Bloodbraid Elf.

Hmmm. So RGU? I think I need to see a deck list first since I don't know what lands you are running or the ratio of colors.

[dantcg]

This is what I'll run, leaving four slots for a big finisher:

Deck
26 Land 4 Bloodbraid Elf 4 Rhox War Monk 4 Slot 2 Enlisted Wurm 4 Violent Outburst 4 Ardent Plea 4 Captured Sunlight 4 Spreading Seas 4 Convinicing Mirage

I haven't figured out land yet, but it might be a stretch.

[idkwhatimdoing]

Sphinx Of Jwar Isle should be your budget finisher. He's great vs Jund and most other things aswell.

[warplord]

Originally Posted by Auratog

The other idea was Platinum Angel

I've actually been contemplating this card for my sideboard as well, but I think the only deck I'd bring it in against is Eldrazi Green...and they would probably be bringing in Windstorm to deal with Sphinx anyway. Probably one of those times where Magebane Armor would be rather nice, but at that point you might be better off with a different solution altogether. That said, cascading into Fabricate to grab a silver bullet sounds intriguing.

Also, now that there's been a deck tech, shouldn't this thread get an upgrade?

[Rat Bastardsen]

Originally Posted by dantcg

This is what I'll run, leaving four slots for a big finisher:


I haven't figured out land yet, but it might be a stretch.

Good to see people appreciating Violent Outburst for this deck. The instant speed can come in really handy, and it's great when you want to swing with multiple creatures.

Re: the Thompson sideboard...

I'm thinking we concede the matchup with mana-dude decks for the most part. For the moment I don't think those decks will be widely played. Although I'm afraid that does mean we lose to Eldrazi Green, that deck may lose popularity due to no appearances at Worlds (am I right about that?). Anway, the Thompson sideboard makes games 2 and 3 auto-wins against Red and Boros.

You don't even need the Baneslayer Angels. I would recomend:

4 Deft Duelist - replaces the Mirages and Seas as the card you always hit. cascade into multiples and block almost anything. also after an earthquake against red you can feel pretty sure of getting another very soon.
4 Wall of Denial - block the biggest threats in RDW all day
4 War Monk - you know
3 Wall of Reverance - guess you know why this is good too

I'm not even sure the Wall of Reverance is needed. I can't think what else I'd use those slots for though.