I was thinking about a second EDH deck to build and browsing around when I found a few lists for Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker. Reading the threads, they said it played like a puzzle, and after playing some MWS games and misplaying I have to agree. This deck is perfect for any Johnny (like me!) and I highly recommend it.
Any Comments or suggestions for the list are welcome.
This seems like a pretty solid deck. I would probably take out Chimney Imp. There are many better other cards you could put in.
I would also maybe put in Stuffy Doll. It's the best chump blocker in the game. Espicially when they have huge creatures. It also has less than 1 power.
Another card you could maybe consider is Hecatomb, since sacing isn't a big deal for this deck and it has a pretty deadly ability.
Haha! I love that you were attentive enough to catch Glimmervoid, but not to catch that the subject of the photo is totally not a dude.
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Thopter Squadron is another cheap source of tokens. It's often better than triskelavus for me since it lets me get the token engine online a little sooner.
Do you ever find that you have difficulty getting your engine set up before ridiculous things start happening? I find that people are casting giant creatures by the time I'm ready to cast Shirei and get my engine started.
There are a few creatures in here that are kinda cute, but I don't think are really necessary. I tend to like creatures that have their own sac outlet built in, as there were many games I was having trouble finding an outlet.
Based on that, I'd probably start cutting some of the 1/x's to make space for more tutors and acceleration.
I've got to ask how a few of these have been for you for my own shirei deck a little further down on the page:
I'm also interested to know if you've run into trouble with graveyard hate. I've started running some instant speed recursion just in case.
I've also been really liking Dawn of the Dead and Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. Each card on its own is pretty good for you, as you can sac the creatures to DotD before they get rfg'd, and it gives you more opportunities to make more creature tokens. If you combine the two? It's kinda sick when you get recur Beseech the Queen every turn.
Lastly, Solemn Simulacrum is almost a must. You can sac it consistently, and recur it with Coffin Queen, Apprentice Necromancer, Scarecrone, etc. It accelerates you and finds you more cards once you've got an engine in place. It's been ridiculous for me.
I think the biggest difference between our decks is that mine is more token based. I want to make lots of creature tokens, abuse them to control the board/other player's hands, and then drop an Eldrazi Monument or some such to win.
You realize that Scavenger Drake has a negative interaction with Shirei, right? If it has even 1 counter on it when it hits the grave, Shirei won't bring it back. Also, forgive me if I'm missing something, but doesn't this deck fold to *** or Damnation? I mean, with Shirei gone, all your creatures hit the GY and won't come back. Maybe toss in Living Death and also the suspend one (forget name)?
You realize that Scavenger Drake has a negative interaction with Shirei, right? If it has even 1 counter on it when it hits the grave, Shirei won't bring it back. Also, forgive me if I'm missing something, but doesn't this deck fold to *** or Damnation? I mean, with Shirei gone, all your creatures hit the GY and won't come back. Maybe toss in Living Death and also the suspend one (forget name)?
What you're missing is that Drake gets bigger every time something else hits the graveyard. In a turn or two you're talking about a 10+/10+ flyer.
Damnation is typically a problem, but it isn't too hard to cast shirei and start setting up again. Either way, one of the first things tutored up is typically Shield of Kaldra in my experience, so it shouldn't matter one way or another.
I'm not a fan of Thopter Squadron in this deck because it's abilities are sorcery speed. I think one of the best parts about Shirei is that he brings things back each turn, and if built right, can adapt very well to multiplayer games.
As such, I tried to avoid cards like Mindslash.
Also, while Scavenger Drake can get big, I ultimately felt like he just didn't always come through. A single removal spell killed him. I dunno, your mileage may vary, but I cut him for more card draw.
To the OP:
I think you got most of the important cards, or at least, you play many of the same cards I do.
I think your artifact support could be increased. I like Oblivion Stone over Plague Wind. It's another out to enchantments or artifacts that are bad news like Leyline of the Void or something.
I would definitely add Ashnod's Altar. It's really good.
I would consider Myr Retriever and Junk Diver. Both can get some crazy recursion with Nevinyrral's Disk and O-stone. They also help get back critical artifacts.
I also don't really like Dark Privilege, as I think there is so much exile-removal and hinder type effects happening in EDH, regeneration is no guarantee of protection. I think Shield of Kaldra is still by far the best Shirei protection, mostly because it's indestructible as well.
This seems like a pretty solid deck. I would probably take out Chimney Imp. There are many better other cards you could put in.
I would also maybe put in Stuffy Doll. It's the best chump blocker in the game. Espicially when they have huge creatures. It also has less than 1 power.
Another card you could maybe consider is Hecatomb, since sacing isn't a big deal for this deck and it has a pretty deadly ability.
I don't feel like Hecatomb is necessary and I'd rather run Drain Life effects, Stuffy Doll seems like a decent idea though.
Thopter Squadron is another cheap source of tokens. It's often better than triskelavus for me since it lets me get the token engine online a little sooner.
Do you ever find that you have difficulty getting your engine set up before ridiculous things start happening? I find that people are casting giant creatures by the time I'm ready to cast Shirei and get my engine started.
There are a few creatures in here that are kinda cute, but I don't think are really necessary. I tend to like creatures that have their own sac outlet built in, as there were many games I was having trouble finding an outlet.
Based on that, I'd probably start cutting some of the 1/x's to make space for more tutors and acceleration.
I've got to ask how a few of these have been for you for my own shirei deck a little further down on the page:
I'm also interested to know if you've run into trouble with graveyard hate. I've started running some instant speed recursion just in case.
I've also been really liking Dawn of the Dead and Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. Each card on its own is pretty good for you, as you can sac the creatures to DotD before they get rfg'd, and it gives you more opportunities to make more creature tokens. If you combine the two? It's kinda sick when you get recur Beseech the Queen every turn.
Lastly, Solemn Simulacrum is almost a must. You can sac it consistently, and recur it with Coffin Queen, Apprentice Necromancer, Scarecrone, etc. It accelerates you and finds you more cards once you've got an engine in place. It's been ridiculous for me.
I think the biggest difference between our decks is that mine is more token based. I want to make lots of creature tokens, abuse them to control the board/other player's hands, and then drop an Eldrazi Monument or some such to win.
Personally I prefer Instant speed as much as possible, so I don't like Thopter Squadron too much, Bone-Reader and Rats have been good, the others have either been so-so or haven't come up. I've had some definite troubles with graveyard hate, but often I'm far enough ahead to just rebuild instead of needing recursion, as for the other suggestions, I could see them working but they seem kind of iffy to me(read require the engine to be online), I think I'll run Simalicrum if I end up putting in Myr Retriever and Junk Driver.
You realize that Scavenger Drake has a negative interaction with Shirei, right? If it has even 1 counter on it when it hits the grave, Shirei won't bring it back. Also, forgive me if I'm missing something, but doesn't this deck fold to *** or Damnation? I mean, with Shirei gone, all your creatures hit the GY and won't come back. Maybe toss in Living Death and also the suspend one (forget name)?
Wrath effects are a pain, gotta tutor for Shield of Kaldra asap.
I'm not a fan of Thopter Squadron in this deck because it's abilities are sorcery speed. I think one of the best parts about Shirei is that he brings things back each turn, and if built right, can adapt very well to multiplayer games.
As such, I tried to avoid cards like Mindslash.
Also, while Scavenger Drake can get big, I ultimately felt like he just didn't always come through. A single removal spell killed him. I dunno, your mileage may vary, but I cut him for more card draw.
To the OP:
I think you got most of the important cards, or at least, you play many of the same cards I do.
I think your artifact support could be increased. I like Oblivion Stone over Plague Wind. It's another out to enchantments or artifacts that are bad news like Leyline of the Void or something.
I would definitely add Ashnod's Altar. It's really good.
I would consider Myr Retriever and Junk Diver. Both can get some crazy recursion with Nevinyrral's Disk and O-stone. They also help get back critical artifacts.
I also don't really like Dark Privilege, as I think there is so much exile-removal and hinder type effects happening in EDH, regeneration is no guarantee of protection. I think Shield of Kaldra is still by far the best Shirei protection, mostly because it's indestructible as well.
I have to agree with many of your points, but I think Mind Slash may be too strong to cut, perhaps Sadistic Hypnotist could though. Dark Privilage was an attempt at extra protection, but I guess a tutor for shield would serve better. What do you usually use Altar for, because it seems to me our only real need for colorless mana is Shirei, and we'd rather have him in play when saccing guys, do you cast him, the use this to play/equip shield, or what?
Lastly, with the importance of enchantment/artifact destruction, what do people think of Phyrexian Tribute/Gate to Phyrexia? Thanks for all of your thoughts!
Ashnod's Altar is good for getting out Shirei and equipping, but also for activated abilities. With Pentavus, Shirei, and the altar, you can get the engine going with no further mana investment.
I think disk, o stone, tutors, and recursion are enough artifact and enchantment destruction. I kind of want to test gate to phyrexia though.
Ashnod's Altar is good for getting out Shirei and equipping, but also for activated abilities. With Pentavus, Shirei, and the altar, you can get the engine going with no further mana investment.
I think disk, o stone, tutors, and recursion are enough artifact and enchantment destruction. I kind of want to test gate to phyrexia though.
Hadn't thought of that, good deal, I'll try to find some room.
My thoughts on some suggested cards: Cuombajj Witches: I'm not sure this does enough Divining Witch: This should have gone in ages ago, got to find some room for it! Makeshift mannequin I'm not sure if this is worthwhile when I already have Coffin Queen and Hell's Caretaker, but its definitely strong. Braids, Cabal minion This should go in asap. Extraplanar Lens I actually just put this in, but haven't had a chance to update my posted list =P, it's really good though. Meekstone: I'm not quite sure how I missed this, thanks for catching it! Blood Pet: While he's fine, I found that I'd usually rather have an extra swamp to power up Cabal Coffers. Thoughtpicker Witch: I agree with you in 1-on-1, but in multiplayer, I'm not sure what I'd cut for it.
I'll post an updated list in a few days when I can get some cards worked in. Until then, suggestions of cards to add, or especially cards to cut are welcome.
I just came across this card searching for some enchantments for a silly deck that I'm working on and thought it might fit well in a deck like this that runs lots of cheap critters. (at least I think you have a lot of cheap creatures since most of them are 1 power)
I just came across this card searching for some enchantments for a silly deck that I'm working on and thought it might fit well in a deck like this that runs lots of cheap critters. (at least I think you have a lot of cheap creatures since most of them are 1 power)
Another card that is a pain for everyone is Desolation.
I like carnival of souls, but I'm not sure what I'd cut for it, my group frowns upon things like desolation, so that's a no-no though its quite good, on Null Profusion I'm really unsure, but it definitely has potential, thanks for the input!
Also, with all of ROE now spoiled, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the lacks or merits of Cadaver Imp, Death Cultist, Pawn of Ulamog and It That Betrays, or any other cards people think are worthwhile or should be cut.
I know I suggested the witch allready, but it is too good to not have in there. The regalia is great for those 50 point fireballs to the face. junktroller is great against graveyard hate, and is a great sac to miren the moaning well. Greed is a better option for card drawing than promise of power, and with bottle gnomes, the life isn't hard to come by. Uncle istivan soaks up all that unhealthy trample damage from generals. Sentinel is D FENCE! Necrosavant is a great big stic that will win games as he should probably be the biggest creature on the board. The blade is a great way to pump your general. I also think that some cheap regenerators are a great way to prevent a lot of damage. If you don't have the mana to regen, no big deal.
Solemn simulacrum seems forced in here as he doesn't recur with your general and seems redundant. Thopter squadron is pretty bad at sorcery speed and I would replace it as well.
All of the eldrazi cards you gmentioned woud also be a great fit here. Especially the sac: target opponent loses 1 you gain 1. Silly.
also, I don't remember the name, but that creature that gives all your stuff wither. He's a 1/3. Great way to chop down those indestructables and shroud critters.
Why no Yawgmoth's Bargain? It's essentially Necro to the hand, and you've got a lot of chumps to make sure that you can safely draw a lot of cards.
also, Balthor the Defiled wrecks faces in Shirei decks.
I know I suggested the witch allready, but it is too good to not have in there. The regalia is great for those 50 point fireballs to the face. junktroller is great against graveyard hate, and is a great sac to miren the moaning well. Greed is a better option for card drawing than promise of power, and with bottle gnomes, the life isn't hard to come by. Uncle istivan soaks up all that unhealthy trample damage from generals. Sentinel is D FENCE! Necrosavant is a great big stic that will win games as he should probably be the biggest creature on the board. The blade is a great way to pump your general. I also think that some cheap regenerators are a great way to prevent a lot of damage. If you don't have the mana to regen, no big deal.
Solemn simulacrum seems forced in here as he doesn't recur with your general and seems redundant. Thopter squadron is pretty bad at sorcery speed and I would replace it as well.
All of the eldrazi cards you gmentioned woud also be a great fit here. Especially the sac: target opponent loses 1 you gain 1. Silly.
also, I don't remember the name, but that creature that gives all your stuff wither. He's a 1/3. Great way to chop down those indestructables and shroud critters.
Why no Yawgmoth's Bargain? It's essentially Necro to the hand, and you've got a lot of chumps to make sure that you can safely draw a lot of cards.
also, Balthor the Defiled wrecks faces in Shirei decks.
Thanks for the suggestions,
I really like General's Regalia, Greed, Yawgmoth's Bargain, and Balthor the Defiled; do you have any suggestions for cards to cut (I cut Simalcrum, and I see that Promise of Power could probably go). An updated list is in the first post, but I'd love more suggestions as to what cut, if not, I'll figure it out eventually. Keep the suggestions coming please!
Edit: As a side-note, Uncle Istvan won't stop trample damage (well one of it =P), if he did I'd agree with you 100%. Also, I used to have Corrosive Mentor in here, but since damage on the stack left I've lost the ability to wither then sacrifice creatures =(.
Also, with all of ROE now spoiled, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the lacks or merits of Cadaver Imp, Death Cultist, Pawn of Ulamog and It That Betrays, or any other cards people think are worthwhile or should be cut.
Cadaver Imp - we want stuff coming into play, not back to our hands, but he is pretty much an upgrade to Golgari Thug for me. Makes the cut for me.
Death Cultist - He's marginal I think, but won't make the cut for me. What we need is a reverse-Death Greeter, you know, Disciple of the Vault for creatures.
Pawn of Ulamog - Interesting. I wish he was 1/x of course, but he does interesting stuff for the deck. My problem is that I usually have enough stuff to sacrifice, so I'm really interested in the extra mana from this guy. However, I usually just tutor into Cabal Coffers and so don't really have an issue with mana. Plus for him to be good, the engine is already going, and at that point, I should be pulling ahead. He would be a no-brainer at 1/x but at 2/2 I think he won't make the cut. I'm interested in hearing how others fare with him though.
It that Betrays - Could be ok, but requires a lot of other stuff in play to maximize. In the end, I think it's too big of an investment into something relatively fragile.
Also, Yawg Bargin is banned. Yawgmoth's Will is pretty excellent if you run a bunch of tutors though.
I can tell you from experience that sentinel is broken in this deck. It never gains any power and can block a darksteel colossus and then get sacked to miren the moaning well for massive life.
I hadn't seen the errata on uncle istivan as he used to read differently and reduced all damage to 0.(negating trample)
Man, Triskelion looks so lost without his little friend. I think regardless of what type of (mono B)deck you're running, these two should always be together, forever
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Why no Yawgmoth's Bargain? It's essentially Necro to the hand, and you've got a lot of chumps to make sure that you can safely draw a lot of cards.
also, Balthor the Defiled wrecks faces in Shirei decks.
No royal asassin? sorceress queen?
Theese black weenie staples have been around for years and in a deck like this are spectacularly effective. turning your opponents giant attacking creature into a 0/2 to be chump blocked and killed by a couple of weenie 1/1's is awesomesauce for shirei brokenness. Royal assasin is self explanitory. They are sorely missed in this list.
Also junktroller is another creature that is sorely missed here. Like reito lantern its targeted graveyard hate to your opponents while serving as protection to your yard from the likes of crypt, relic, and furnace. Also on his plus side with his huge toughness he is no slouch to sac with well. 6 life a turn is nothing to sneeze at. And if you do it right before your turn he's effectively hasted.
quietus spike is a kill card in this deck as well. Put on A nether traitor or any weenie and send it over to say hello. That's another creature that should be in here. If you have cleared the field gravepact style then you get someone dead way faster than normal with all theese 1/1's could normally accomplish. Also, with traitors own recurrsion ability he is the one creature you can pump, and skullclamp, all day long and still get back without shirei on the field. Haste, shadow, effectively unblockable. Awesome creature here.
Any Comments or suggestions for the list are welcome.
With M11, here is my new and improved list:
1 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
2 Carrion Feeder
3 Hell's Caretaker
4 Nezumi Bone-Reader
5 Plagued Rusalka
6 Viscera Seer
7 Apprentice Necromancer
8 Bottle Gnomes
9 Heap Doll
10 Martyr of Bones
11 Mindless Automaton
12 Scarecrone
13 Abyssal Gatekeeper
14 Big Game Hunter
15 Bone Shredder
16 Cadaver Imp
17 Junk Diver
18 Marsh Flitter
19 Myr Retriever
20 Noxious Toad
21 Pentavus
22 Pilgrim's Eye
23 Rotting Rats
24 Thopter Squadron
25 Triskelavus
26 Triskelion
28 Guiltfeeder
29 Royal Assassin
30 Ashnod's Altar
31 Attrition
32 Braids, Cabal Minion
33 Infernal Tribute
34 Phyrexian Altar
35 Lightning Greaves
36 Shield of Kaldra
37 That Which Was Taken
Tutors
38 Beseech the Queen
39 Demonic Tutor
40 Diabolic Intent
41 Expedition Map
42 Liliana Vess
43 Vampiric Tutor
44 Necropotence
45 Phyrexian Arena
46 Barter in Blood
47 Damnation
48 Decree of Pain
49 Enslave
50 Nevinyrral's Disk
51 Oblivion Stone
52 Plague Wind
53 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
55 Magus of the Coffers
56 Nirkana Revenant
57 Sol Ring
58 Balthor the Defiled
59 Butcher of Malakir
60 Grave Pact
61 Cabal Coffers
62 Deserted Temple
63 High Market
64 Miren, the Moaning Well
65 Petrified Field
66 Phyrexian Tower
67 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
68 Vesuva
69 Volrath's Stronghold
01 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
02 Cadaver Imp
03 Triskelavus
04 Scarecrone
05 Thopter Squadron
06 Apprentice Necromancer
07 Coffin Queen
08 Marsh Flitter
09 Plagued Rusalka
10 Guiltfeeder
11 Abyssal Gatekeeper
12 Noxious Toad
13 Mindless Automaton
14 Rotting Rats
15 Junk Diver
16 Triskelion
17 Nezumi Bone-Reader
18 Pilgrim's Eye
19 Bone Shredder
20 Hell's Caretaker
21 Heap Doll
22 Bottle Gnomes
23 Deathgreeter
24 Martyr of Bones
25 Big Game Hunter
26 Carrion Feeder
27 Pentavus
28 Plague Bearer
30 Attrition
31 Infernal Tribute
32 Call to the Grave
33 Mind Slash
34 Expedition Map
35 Vampiric Tutor
36 Demonic Tutor
37 Beseech the Queen
38 Liliana Vess
39 Diabolic Intent
Sweepers
40 Oblivion Stone
41 Decree of Pain
42 Plague Wind
43 Nevinyrral's Disk
44 Barter in Blood
45 All is Dust
46 Damnation
47 Lightning Greaves
48 Shield of Kaldra
49 That Which Was Taken
50 Promise of Power
51 Phyrexian Arena
52 Necropotence
54 Sol Ring
55 Magus of the Coffers
56 Nirkana Revenant
57 Enslave
58 Pawn of Ulamog
59 Grave Pact
60 Butcher of Malakir
61 Sorin Markov
62 Vesuva
63 Petrified Field
64 Phyrexian Tower
65 Cabal Coffers
66 Deserted Temple
67 Miren, the Moaning Well
68 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
69 High Market
70 Volrath's Stronghold
1 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
2 Guiltfeeder
3 Pentavus
4 Triskelavus
5 Triskelion
6 Scavenger Drake
7 Abyssal Gatekeeper
8 Apprentice Necromancer
9 Big Game Hunter
10 Bone Shredder
11 Bottle Gnomes
12 Carrion Feeder
13 Coffin Queen
14 Deathgreeter
15 Heap Doll
16 Hell's Caretaker
17 Kiku, Night's Flower
18 Marsh Flitter
19 Martyr of Bones
20 Mindless Automaton
21 Infectious Host
22 Chimney Imp
23 Nether Traitor
24 Nezumi Bone-Reader
25 Noxious Toad
26 Plaguebearer
27 Plagued Rusalka
28 Scarecrone
29 Royal Assassin
30 Corrosive Mentor
31 Rotting Rats
32 Sorceress Queen
33 Magus of the Abyss
34 Reiver Demon
35 Sadistic Hypnotist
37 Attrition
38 Carnage Altar
39 Call to the Grave
40 Mind Slash
41 Spawning Pit
42 Damnation
43 Mutilate
44 Plague Wing
45 Decree of Pain
46 Nevinyrral's Disk
47 Barter in Blood
48 Demonic Tutor
59 Diabolic Intent
50 Liliana Vess
51 Beseech the Queen
52 Phyrexian Arena
53 Necropotence
54 Mind's Eye
55 Syphon Mind
56 Lightning Greaves
57 Shield of Kaldra
58 Dark Privilege
59 That Which Was Taken
60 Helm of Po session
61 Grave Pact
62 Cabal Coffers
63 Vesuva
64 Volrath's Stronghold
65 Deserted Temple
66 Miren, the Moaning Well
67 Spawning Pool
68 Urza's Factory
69 Leechridden Swamp
70 Swamp
71 Swamp
72 Swamp
73 Swamp
74 Swamp
75 Swamp
76 Swamp
77 Swamp
78 Swamp
79 Swamp
80 Swamp
81 Swamp
82 Swamp
83 Swamp
84 Swamp
85 Swamp
86 Swamp
87 Swamp
88 Swamp
89 Swamp
90 Swamp
91 Swamp
92 Swamp
93 Swamp
94 Swamp
95 Swamp
96 Swamp
97 Swamp
98 Swamp
99 Swamp
100 Swamp
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I would also maybe put in Stuffy Doll. It's the best chump blocker in the game. Espicially when they have huge creatures. It also has less than 1 power.
Another card you could maybe consider is Hecatomb, since sacing isn't a big deal for this deck and it has a pretty deadly ability.
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Do you ever find that you have difficulty getting your engine set up before ridiculous things start happening? I find that people are casting giant creatures by the time I'm ready to cast Shirei and get my engine started.
There are a few creatures in here that are kinda cute, but I don't think are really necessary. I tend to like creatures that have their own sac outlet built in, as there were many games I was having trouble finding an outlet.
Based on that, I'd probably start cutting some of the 1/x's to make space for more tutors and acceleration.
I've got to ask how a few of these have been for you for my own shirei deck a little further down on the page:
Royal Assassin
Nezumi bone-Reader
Plaguebearer
Chimney Imp
Infectious Host
Rotting Rats
Nether Traitor
I'm also interested to know if you've run into trouble with graveyard hate. I've started running some instant speed recursion just in case.
I've also been really liking Dawn of the Dead and Xiahou Dun, the One-Eyed. Each card on its own is pretty good for you, as you can sac the creatures to DotD before they get rfg'd, and it gives you more opportunities to make more creature tokens. If you combine the two? It's kinda sick when you get recur Beseech the Queen every turn.
Lastly, Solemn Simulacrum is almost a must. You can sac it consistently, and recur it with Coffin Queen, Apprentice Necromancer, Scarecrone, etc. It accelerates you and finds you more cards once you've got an engine in place. It's been ridiculous for me.
I think the biggest difference between our decks is that mine is more token based. I want to make lots of creature tokens, abuse them to control the board/other player's hands, and then drop an Eldrazi Monument or some such to win.
Last suggestions:
Expedition Map
Scrying Sheets
GX Tron XG
UR Phoenix RU
GG Freyalise High Tide GG
UR Parun Counterspells RU
BB Yawgmoth Token Storm BB
WB Pestilence BW
What you're missing is that Drake gets bigger every time something else hits the graveyard. In a turn or two you're talking about a 10+/10+ flyer.
Damnation is typically a problem, but it isn't too hard to cast shirei and start setting up again. Either way, one of the first things tutored up is typically Shield of Kaldra in my experience, so it shouldn't matter one way or another.
As such, I tried to avoid cards like Mindslash.
Also, while Scavenger Drake can get big, I ultimately felt like he just didn't always come through. A single removal spell killed him. I dunno, your mileage may vary, but I cut him for more card draw.
To the OP:
I think you got most of the important cards, or at least, you play many of the same cards I do.
I think your artifact support could be increased. I like Oblivion Stone over Plague Wind. It's another out to enchantments or artifacts that are bad news like Leyline of the Void or something.
I would definitely add Ashnod's Altar. It's really good.
I would consider Myr Retriever and Junk Diver. Both can get some crazy recursion with Nevinyrral's Disk and O-stone. They also help get back critical artifacts.
I also don't really like Dark Privilege, as I think there is so much exile-removal and hinder type effects happening in EDH, regeneration is no guarantee of protection. I think Shield of Kaldra is still by far the best Shirei protection, mostly because it's indestructible as well.
I don't feel like Hecatomb is necessary and I'd rather run Drain Life effects, Stuffy Doll seems like a decent idea though.
Personally I prefer Instant speed as much as possible, so I don't like Thopter Squadron too much, Bone-Reader and Rats have been good, the others have either been so-so or haven't come up. I've had some definite troubles with graveyard hate, but often I'm far enough ahead to just rebuild instead of needing recursion, as for the other suggestions, I could see them working but they seem kind of iffy to me(read require the engine to be online), I think I'll run Simalicrum if I end up putting in Myr Retriever and Junk Driver.
Wrath effects are a pain, gotta tutor for Shield of Kaldra asap.
I have to agree with many of your points, but I think Mind Slash may be too strong to cut, perhaps Sadistic Hypnotist could though. Dark Privilage was an attempt at extra protection, but I guess a tutor for shield would serve better. What do you usually use Altar for, because it seems to me our only real need for colorless mana is Shirei, and we'd rather have him in play when saccing guys, do you cast him, the use this to play/equip shield, or what?
Lastly, with the importance of enchantment/artifact destruction, what do people think of Phyrexian Tribute/Gate to Phyrexia? Thanks for all of your thoughts!
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I think disk, o stone, tutors, and recursion are enough artifact and enchantment destruction. I kind of want to test gate to phyrexia though.
Hadn't thought of that, good deal, I'll try to find some room.
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Another card I find conspicuously missing is Meekstone.
As for what to take out...good question!
Creatures [28]
4x Extractor Demon
4x Rotting Rats
4x Dregscape Zombie
3x Fatestitcher
4x Viscera Dragger
4x Hedron Crab
2x Kederekt Leviathan
3x Corpse Connoisseur
4x Spell Pierce
2x Consume Spirit
2x Tome Scour
3x Grim Discovery
Lands [23]
4x Terramorphic Expanse
3x Crypt of Agadeem
2x Grixis Panorama
2x Swamp
12x Island
Check out my SELLING LIST of great pricing!
My thoughts on some suggested cards:
Cuombajj Witches: I'm not sure this does enough
Divining Witch: This should have gone in ages ago, got to find some room for it!
Makeshift mannequin I'm not sure if this is worthwhile when I already have Coffin Queen and Hell's Caretaker, but its definitely strong.
Braids, Cabal minion This should go in asap.
Extraplanar Lens I actually just put this in, but haven't had a chance to update my posted list =P, it's really good though.
Meekstone: I'm not quite sure how I missed this, thanks for catching it!
Blood Pet: While he's fine, I found that I'd usually rather have an extra swamp to power up Cabal Coffers.
Thoughtpicker Witch: I agree with you in 1-on-1, but in multiplayer, I'm not sure what I'd cut for it.
I'll post an updated list in a few days when I can get some cards worked in. Until then, suggestions of cards to add, or especially cards to cut are welcome.
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01 Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker
02 Myr Retriever
03 Triskelavus
04 Scarecrone
05 Thopter Squadron
06 Apprentice Necromancer
07 Coffin Queen
08 Marsh Flitter
09 Plagued Rusalka
10 Guiltfeeder
11 Abyssal Gatekeeper
12 Noxious Toad
13 Mindless Automaton
14 Rotting Rats
15 Junk Diver
16 Triskelion
17 Kiku, Night's Flower
18 Nezumi Bone-Reader
19 Pilgrim's Eye
20 Bone Shredder
21 Hell's Caretaker
22 Heap Doll
23 Bottle Gnomes
24 Deathgreeter
25 Martyr of Bones
26 Big Game Hunter
27 Carrion Feeder
28 Pentavus
29 Plague Bearer
31 Attrition
32 Infernal Tribute
33 Call to the Grave
34 Helm of Possession
35 Mind Slash
36 Expedition Map
37 Vampiric Tutor
38 Demonic Tutor
39 Beseech the Queen
40 Liliana Vess
41 Diabolic Intent
Sweepers
42 Oblivion Stone
43 Decree of Pain
44 Plague Wind
45 Nevinyrral's Disk
46 Barter in Blood
47 Reiver Demon
48 Damnation
49 Lightning Greaves
50 Shield of Kaldra
51 That Which Was Taken
52 Promise of Power
53 Phyrexian Arena
54 Necropotence
56 Sol Ring
57 Magus of the Coffers
58 Solemn Simulacrum
59 Grave Pact
60 Butcher of Malakir
61 Sorin Markov
62 Vesuva
63 Petrified Field
64 Phyrexian Tower
65 Cabal Coffers
66 Deserted Temple
67 Miren, the Moaning Well
68 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
69 High Market
70 Volrath's Stronghold
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Carnival of Souls - This could even be used in some kind of ElfBall type of black deck when combined with Null Profusion.
Another card that is a pain for everyone is Desolation.
I like carnival of souls, but I'm not sure what I'd cut for it, my group frowns upon things like desolation, so that's a no-no though its quite good, on Null Profusion I'm really unsure, but it definitely has potential, thanks for the input!
Also, with all of ROE now spoiled, I'd like to hear people's thoughts on the lacks or merits of Cadaver Imp, Death Cultist, Pawn of Ulamog and It That Betrays, or any other cards people think are worthwhile or should be cut.
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I know I suggested the witch allready, but it is too good to not have in there. The regalia is great for those 50 point fireballs to the face. junktroller is great against graveyard hate, and is a great sac to miren the moaning well. Greed is a better option for card drawing than promise of power, and with bottle gnomes, the life isn't hard to come by. Uncle istivan soaks up all that unhealthy trample damage from generals. Sentinel is D FENCE! Necrosavant is a great big stic that will win games as he should probably be the biggest creature on the board. The blade is a great way to pump your general. I also think that some cheap regenerators are a great way to prevent a lot of damage. If you don't have the mana to regen, no big deal.
Solemn simulacrum seems forced in here as he doesn't recur with your general and seems redundant. Thopter squadron is pretty bad at sorcery speed and I would replace it as well.
All of the eldrazi cards you gmentioned woud also be a great fit here. Especially the sac: target opponent loses 1 you gain 1. Silly.
also, I don't remember the name, but that creature that gives all your stuff wither. He's a 1/3. Great way to chop down those indestructables and shroud critters.
also, Balthor the Defiled wrecks faces in Shirei decks.
I am petitioning to get players to stop complaining about mythic rarity. Sig this to join the cause.
Thanks for the suggestions,
I really like General's Regalia, Greed, Yawgmoth's Bargain, and Balthor the Defiled; do you have any suggestions for cards to cut (I cut Simalcrum, and I see that Promise of Power could probably go). An updated list is in the first post, but I'd love more suggestions as to what cut, if not, I'll figure it out eventually. Keep the suggestions coming please!
Edit: As a side-note, Uncle Istvan won't stop trample damage (well one of it =P), if he did I'd agree with you 100%. Also, I used to have Corrosive Mentor in here, but since damage on the stack left I've lost the ability to wither then sacrifice creatures =(.
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Cadaver Imp - we want stuff coming into play, not back to our hands, but he is pretty much an upgrade to Golgari Thug for me. Makes the cut for me.
Death Cultist - He's marginal I think, but won't make the cut for me. What we need is a reverse-Death Greeter, you know, Disciple of the Vault for creatures.
Pawn of Ulamog - Interesting. I wish he was 1/x of course, but he does interesting stuff for the deck. My problem is that I usually have enough stuff to sacrifice, so I'm really interested in the extra mana from this guy. However, I usually just tutor into Cabal Coffers and so don't really have an issue with mana. Plus for him to be good, the engine is already going, and at that point, I should be pulling ahead. He would be a no-brainer at 1/x but at 2/2 I think he won't make the cut. I'm interested in hearing how others fare with him though.
It that Betrays - Could be ok, but requires a lot of other stuff in play to maximize. In the end, I think it's too big of an investment into something relatively fragile.
Also, Yawg Bargin is banned. Yawgmoth's Will is pretty excellent if you run a bunch of tutors though.
I hadn't seen the errata on uncle istivan as he used to read differently and reduced all damage to 0.(negating trample)
"The enemy is getting too close! Quick! Inflate the Toad!"
Works in Progress
Vintage
WUBVault & StuffBUW
Legacy
UBDDTBU
EDH
BGSaplingGBWBGDoran the DBGBW
WBGTeneb's WrathGBW
Brainstorming
URGIntet [EDH]
Yawgmoth's Bargain Is banned!
http://www.dragonhighlander.net/rules.php
My Current EDH Decks
WUBRG Lorwyn Block Horde of Notions WUBRG
UG Momir Vig Glimpse Combo UG
UW "Rasputin Dreamcrusher" Control UW
Theese black weenie staples have been around for years and in a deck like this are spectacularly effective. turning your opponents giant attacking creature into a 0/2 to be chump blocked and killed by a couple of weenie 1/1's is awesomesauce for shirei brokenness. Royal assasin is self explanitory. They are sorely missed in this list.
Also junktroller is another creature that is sorely missed here. Like reito lantern its targeted graveyard hate to your opponents while serving as protection to your yard from the likes of crypt, relic, and furnace. Also on his plus side with his huge toughness he is no slouch to sac with well. 6 life a turn is nothing to sneeze at. And if you do it right before your turn he's effectively hasted.
quietus spike is a kill card in this deck as well. Put on A nether traitor or any weenie and send it over to say hello. That's another creature that should be in here. If you have cleared the field gravepact style then you get someone dead way faster than normal with all theese 1/1's could normally accomplish. Also, with traitors own recurrsion ability he is the one creature you can pump, and skullclamp, all day long and still get back without shirei on the field. Haste, shadow, effectively unblockable. Awesome creature here.