Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
I've read several replies that have basically translated into "I can't afford to get this card and I won't proxy, so I don't play with it and I won't vote for it" or "I don't play a powered cube, so I won't vote this card higher even though it works best in a powered cube." These people should not be voting. This is supposed to be about the 20 most powerful cards for a power themed cube. Not about your cube. If you don't know about a card's effectiveness and you want to vote, it is your responsibility to learn about the card and how effective it is or isn't in a power cube (not your cube) situation. Your votes severely taint the purpose of this poll when you're voting based on anything other than "What are the most powerful cards in the game for a power cube format?"
This whole thing wouldn't be worth anything if it was only people who had fully powered or fully proxied cubes posting. First of all the number of voters would go way down. That makes the value of the lists much less valuable. If there's 20 voters one person overrating or underrating a card isn't that big of a deal. If there's only 5 voters it's a huge change. Secondly it strongly discourages participation. I don't run, and prolly will never run, a fully powered cube. Not being allowed to vote makes me much less want to read and discuss what's going on here, and also makes the discussion much less relevant, if there's no one who's cube is close to mine in makeup the results mean much less.
I can agree that it throws off the balance if people don't rate cards they don't play or guess at where they would rate them. But I think the benefits of people doing that outweighs. In the end I think the more discussion the better.
If you don't know about a card's effectiveness and you want to vote, it is your responsibility to learn about the card and how effective it is or isn't in a power cube (not your cube) situation.
I will never play with un-cards ... but I can still give a slot to Gifts Given ... and I did. If I somewhat underrated it in my top 20 ... that is OK ... at least I gave it some points which less dramatically effects its final standing than a non-vote would. If someone doesn't play with Ancestral Recall, they can still give it a high ranking.;)
Jester's Tears wasn't suggesting you not vote if you don't have a powered cube ... just that you rank powered cards in your rankings ...
I think "these people should not be voting" is a pretty clear sign that he didn't think we should vote.
I agree that people should rank cards even if they haven't played with them if they think they are worthy of a vote. I just don't think that the only valid perspective is one with a fully powered cube.
I think "these people should not be voting" is a pretty clear sign that he didn't think we should vote.
I agree that people should rank cards even if they haven't played with them if they think they are worthy of a vote. I just don't think that the only valid perspective is one with a fully powered cube.
Agreed. I don't currently have a fully powered cube but I'm pretty sure that Ancestral Recall is ☺☺☺☺ing amazing. Just because I've never actually played with the card doesn't mean I shouldn't be voting. I can guess about power and be pretty sure of myself. I won't, however, vote for cards like Sorin that are probably good, but I have no experience with.
I think "these people should not be voting" is a pretty clear sign that he didn't think we should vote.
I agree that people should rank cards even if they haven't played with them if they think they are worthy of a vote. I just don't think that the only valid perspective is one with a fully powered cube.
Reading comprehension for the win, ok?
What type of people "should not be voting"? I'm not going to repeat myself, you're just going to have to go back to my original post and read it again instead of cherry picking words to try and create conflict. Christ, you even quoted the relevant part in your initial response to me.... you leave me wondering if you have a reading comprehension issue or if you're just trying to cause a conflict.
Everyone should vote! If you don't cube with a card, make an educated guess. If you can't make an educated guess, vote anyways. It won't affect the power rankings that much, and everybody's opinion should be heard.
Less *****ing, more voting. Save your personal attacks for arguing with your little sisters, but don't annoy us. If you absolutely have to, take it to PMs. Just as long as we don't have to read it.
Vote by using common sense, you are probably able to rank Ancestral Recall without ever playing it before. Other cards like Sorin are more tricky. Vote for those cards that you can confidently voice your opinion on. Don't vote on the others.
The cards get ranked in the results by their average points. A card like Gifts Given that gets multiple votes of 15 and more points will still get a good spot in the Top20 even if a few people don't vote for it, because these "missing" points will get mitigated when forming the average by dviding the total number of points by the number of participants.
And there we got the reason why as many people as possible should voice their opinion and get a list in. The higher this number is, the less influence will any missing points for a card have.
So post your damn lists, people
How about some Moderator love for this thread people?? Give it up for our Mod!!
This is what I'm saying, and I believe what the majority of us have been saying.
Gifts Given is the perfect example -- check the TURF. It only got a few votes, but those were some premium ass points it received. It made the Top 20.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Everyone should vote! If you don't cube with a card, make an educated guess. If you can't make an educated guess, vote anyways. It won't affect the power rankings that much, and everybody's opinion should be heard.
Exactly. No one should feel like they can't vote because they can't guess how good Nether Void or The Abyss are.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
I pretty much think that Xinye and Wildfire are the same, but their wording is slightly different, which is why I made the distinction. If they're being grouped as the same, then I'll have Greater Gargadon be the 20th place card instead when Wildfire+Xinye are counted the same.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Burning of Xinye + Wildfire shouldn't be voted separately. When was the last time, that you regenerated a land in the cube (->Spawning Pool?) / had indestructible lands out (Elspeth ultimate)?
To be honest, I think they're virtually identical, but there are some cards that get grouped together like Elite Vanguard/Savannah Lions and Viridian Shaman/Uktabi Orangutan (granted, they're usually differentiated because of having different creature types) and figured that it'd be better to err on the side of caution.
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom: The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray). The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it. The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
You have until 12 PM tomorrow Pacific.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
This whole thing wouldn't be worth anything if it was only people who had fully powered or fully proxied cubes posting. First of all the number of voters would go way down. That makes the value of the lists much less valuable. If there's 20 voters one person overrating or underrating a card isn't that big of a deal. If there's only 5 voters it's a huge change. Secondly it strongly discourages participation. I don't run, and prolly will never run, a fully powered cube. Not being allowed to vote makes me much less want to read and discuss what's going on here, and also makes the discussion much less relevant, if there's no one who's cube is close to mine in makeup the results mean much less.
I can agree that it throws off the balance if people don't rate cards they don't play or guess at where they would rate them. But I think the benefits of people doing that outweighs. In the end I think the more discussion the better.
Jester's Tears wasn't suggesting you not vote if you don't have a powered cube ... just that you rank powered cards in your rankings ...
I will never play with un-cards ... but I can still give a slot to Gifts Given ... and I did. If I somewhat underrated it in my top 20 ... that is OK ... at least I gave it some points which less dramatically effects its final standing than a non-vote would. If someone doesn't play with Ancestral Recall, they can still give it a high ranking.;)
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
I think "these people should not be voting" is a pretty clear sign that he didn't think we should vote.
I agree that people should rank cards even if they haven't played with them if they think they are worthy of a vote. I just don't think that the only valid perspective is one with a fully powered cube.
Agreed. I don't currently have a fully powered cube but I'm pretty sure that Ancestral Recall is ☺☺☺☺ing amazing. Just because I've never actually played with the card doesn't mean I shouldn't be voting. I can guess about power and be pretty sure of myself. I won't, however, vote for cards like Sorin that are probably good, but I have no experience with.
MTGS Average Peasant Cube 2023 Edition
Follow me. I tweet.
19 Recurring Nightmare
18 Demonic Tutor
17 Bitterblossom
16 Dark Confidant
15 Vampiric Tutor
14 Kokusho, the Evening Star
13 Damnation
12 Phyrexian Arena
11 Shriekmaw
10 Hymn to Tourach
9 Thoughtseize
8 Sorin Markov
7 Liliana Vess
6 Profane Command
5 Yawgmoth's Will
4 Graveborn Muse
3 Dark Ritual
2 Yawgmoth's Bargain
1 Duress
"What am I looking at? Ashes, dead man."
Better late than never.
Reading comprehension for the win, ok?
What type of people "should not be voting"? I'm not going to repeat myself, you're just going to have to go back to my original post and read it again instead of cherry picking words to try and create conflict. Christ, you even quoted the relevant part in your initial response to me.... you leave me wondering if you have a reading comprehension issue or if you're just trying to cause a conflict.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
How about some Moderator love for this thread people?? Give it up for our Mod!!
This is what I'm saying, and I believe what the majority of us have been saying.
Gifts Given is the perfect example -- check the TURF. It only got a few votes, but those were some premium ass points it received. It made the Top 20.
Thanks DerBK!
1 hour and 35 minutes left to vote!
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
2) Mind Twist
3) Demonic Tutor
4) Dark Confidant
5) Vampiric Tutor
6) Yawgmoth's Will
7) Bitterblossom
8) Damnation
9) Thoughtseize
10) Hymn to Tourach
11) Living Death
12) Yawgmoth's Bargain
13) Animate Dead
14) Dark Ritual
15) Phyrexian Arena
16) Shriekmaw
17) Lilliana Vess
18) Decree of Pain
19) Buried Alive
20) Vampire Nighthawk
Exactly. No one should feel like they can't vote because they can't guess how good Nether Void or The Abyss are.
I've cubed extensively with both and neither make my top 20 anyways.
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
I think there's a problem here. Also Batter in Blood sounds so digusting.
How did you make the coating on these Chicken Nuggets?
Easy. Just Batter in Blood.
This is true. I didn't close down Black voting before I left work Friday (this was a stupidly crazy weekend).
So consider this the official announcement...
Black Voting is now CLOSED. Red Voting is now OPEN.
Black's results will be posted in the results thread later today. Off you go!
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
19 Wheel of Fortune
18 Flametongue Kavu
17 Starstorm
16 Grim Lavamancer
15 Squee Goblin Nabob
14 Siege-Gang Commander
13 Chandra Nalaar
12 Chain Lightning
11 Rolling Earthquake
10 Form of the Dragon
09 Wildfire
08 Firestorm
07 Gamble
06 Sulfuric Vortex
05 Comet Strorm
04 Chandra Ablaze
03 Disintegrate
02 Avalance Riders
01 Earthquake
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=385729
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Chain Lightning
4 Sulfuric Vortex
5 Blast from the Past
6 Wheel of Fortune
7 Siege-Gang Commander
8 Goblin Guide
9 Rolling Earthquake
10 Grim Lavamancer
11 Chandra Nalaar
12 Starstorm
13 Incinerate
14 Avalanche Riders
15 Wildfire (Burning of Xinye)
16 Banefire
17 Magma Jet
18 Jackal Pup
19 Greater Gargadon
20 Bogardan Hellkite
I pretty much think that Xinye and Wildfire are the same, but their wording is slightly different, which is why I made the distinction. If they're being grouped as the same, then I'll have Greater Gargadon be the 20th place card instead when Wildfire+Xinye are counted the same.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
Here's a list of 2009's Red Top 20:
2 Lightning Bolt - 16.7
3 Siege-Gang Commander - 14.5
4 Banefire - 13.2
5 Wheel of Fortune - 11.3
6 Grim Lavamancer - 8.7
7 Wildfire - 8.4 (Burning of Xinye)
8 Chandra Nalaar - 7.6
9 Sneak Attack - 7.5
10 Sulfuric Vortex - 7.1
11 Starstorm - 6.4
12 Avalanche Riders - 4.7
12 Rolling Earthquake - 4.7
14 Demonfire - 4.6
14 Firebolt - 4.6
16 Incinerate - 4.5
17 Blast From the Past - 4.4
18 Mogg Fanatic - 4.3
19 Chain Lightning - 3.9
20 Fireball - 3.6
Happy voting!
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3
To be honest, I think they're virtually identical, but there are some cards that get grouped together like Elite Vanguard/Savannah Lions and Viridian Shaman/Uktabi Orangutan (granted, they're usually differentiated because of having different creature types) and figured that it'd be better to err on the side of caution.
I used to write cube articles on StarCityGames, now for GatheringMagic and podcast about cube (w/Antknee42.)
2 Lightning Bolt
3 Siege-Gang Commander
4 Rolling Earthquake
5 Earthquake
6 Banefire
7 Wheel of Fortune
8 Grim Lavamancer
9 Wildfire
10 Chain Lightning
11 Chandra Nalaar
12 Incinerate
13 Firebolt
14 Chandra Ablaze
15 Demonfire
16 Fireball
17 Sulfuric Vortex
18 Starstorm
19 Avalanche Riders
20 Goblin Guide
My Tribal cube
My 93/94 old school cube
My Artifact cube
My Hearthstone Quiz App for iOS
2 Flametongue Kavu
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Greater Gargadon
5 Sulfuric Vortex
6 Blast from the Past
7 Grim Lavamancer
8 Goblin Guide
9 Crater Hellion
10 Chandra Nalaar
11 Avalanche Riders
12 Ogre Arsonist
13 Goblin Ruinblaster
14 Ravenous Baboons
15 Imperial Recruiter
16 Kiki-Jiki, Mirror Breaker
17 Siege-Gang Commander
18 Firebolt
19 Chain Lightning
20 Banefire
2 Flametongue Kavu
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Siege-Gang Commander
5 Goblin Guide
6 Wildfire
7 Avalanche Riders
8 Chandra Nalaar
9 Wheel of Fortune
10 Crater Hellion
11 Greater Gargadon
12 Grim Lavamancer
13 Banefire
14 Chain Lightning
15 Incinerate
16 Starstorm
17 Molten Rain
18 Magma Jet
19 Jackal Pup
20 Fireball
My 630 Card Powered Cube
My Article - "Cube Design Philosophy"
My Article - "Mana Short: A study in limited resource management."
My 50th Set (P)review - Discusses my top 20 Cube cards from OTJ!
A little help here...you doubled up on #5, so do I ditch Flamebreak as it'd be #21?
And...
This.
If you read my Cube Draft Report (see link in sig [/shameless plug]), you understand.
NorCal Crew Collective Cube on Cube Tutor
My 2009 Cube Draft Article - "With The First Pick..."
2009 Official Cube Power Rankings
2010 Official Cube Power Rankings
2014 Official Cube Power Rankings
Silent Edge's Tidbits of Wisdom:
The Lewis Theory - When the presence of a single card makes every other card in your deck better (see Lewis, Ray).
The Rubber Edict - You'd rather have it and not use it, than need it and not have it.
The Shotgun Wedding - Don't commit early unless you absolutely have to.
Twitter: @archplus3