I understand that when you play Demigod, its "when you cast" ability triggers and goes on the stack. If Demigod is countered before that trigger resolves, it will be put into the graveyard; then when the trigger resolves, it will be returned from the graveyard to the battlefield.
It was my assumption that the same would apply to Vengevine. For example, you cast Vengevine as your second creature spell for the turn, which (I assumed) triggered the ability. If an opponent counters VV before the trigger resolved, thereby putting VV into the graveyard, I thought that when the trigger resolved, VV would return to the battlefield.
However, apparently this is not the case. From the Rise FAQ:
Quote from Rise of the Eldrazi FAQ »
* Vengevine’s triggered ability works only if Vengevine is already in your graveyard as you finish casting your second creature spell in a turn, and it remains there continuously until the ability resolves.
I'm having trouble seeing the difference. If anyone could offer me some clarification, I would appreciate it!
Vengevine's triggered ability specifies as part of its effect that it moves Vengevine out of your graveyard; as such, it only functions when Vengevine is in the graveyard to begin with.
The relevant rule is as follows:
112.6. Abilities of an instant or sorcery spell usually function only while that object is on the stack. Abilities of all other objects usually function only while that object is on the battlefield. The exceptions are as follows:
112.6a Characteristic-defining abilities function everywhere, even outside the game. (See rule 604.3.)
112.6b An ability that states which zones it functions in functions only from those zones.
112.6c An object's ability that modifies what that particular object costs to cast functions on the stack.
112.6d An object's ability that restricts or modifies how that particular object can be played or cast functions in any zone from which it could be played or cast.
112.6e An object's ability that restricts or modifies what zones that particular object can be played or cast from functions in all zones.
112.6f An object's ability that modifies how that particular object enters the battlefield functions as that object is entering the battlefield. See rule 614.12.
112.6g An object's activated ability that has a cost that can't be paid while the object is on the battlefield functions from any zone in which its cost can be paid.
112.6h A trigger condition that can't trigger from the battlefield functions in all zones it can trigger from. Other trigger conditions of the same triggered ability may function in different zones.
Example: Absolver Thrull has the ability "When Absolver Thrull enters the battlefield or the creature it haunts is put into a graveyard, destroy target enchantment." The first trigger condition functions from the battlefield and the second trigger condition functions from the exile zone. (See rule 702.52, "Haunt.")
112.6i An ability whose cost or effect specifies that it moves the object it's on out of a particular zone functions only in that zone, unless that ability's trigger condition, or a previous part of that ability's cost or effect, specifies that the object is put into that zone.
Example: Necrosavant says "{3}{B}{B}, Sacrifice a creature: Return Necrosavant from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep." A player may activate this ability only if Necrosavant is in his or her graveyard.
112.6j An ability that modifies the rules for deck construction functions before the game begins. Such an ability modifies not just the Comprehensive Rules, but also the _Magic: The Gathering_ Tournament Rules and any other documents that set the deck construction rules for a specific Constructed format. However, such an ability can't affect the format legality of a card, including whether it's banned or restricted. The current _Magic: The Gathering_ Tournament Rules can be found at <http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=dci/doccenter/home>.
112.6k Abilities of plane cards and vanguard cards function in the command zone. See rule 901, "Planar Magic," and rule 902, "Vanguard."
The bolded part is the one that applies to Vengevine.
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Level 2 Magic Judge
Procrastination is an art form, and I am an artist. Knowledge knows no bounds.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
Vengevine refers to itself so it will only trigger while it's in the graveyard. Demigod doesn't refer to itself - it refers to "all cards named Demigod of Revenge" - so it doesn't check anything when it triggers.
There's probably a simpler way to explain it, but that's the difference. Vengevine says "return ~this~..." while Demidgod says "Return all cards named Demigod of Revenge..."
I understand that when you play Demigod, its "when you cast" ability triggers and goes on the stack. If Demigod is countered before that trigger resolves, it will be put into the graveyard; then when the trigger resolves, it will be returned from the graveyard to the battlefield.
It was my assumption that the same would apply to Vengevine. For example, you cast Vengevine as your second creature spell for the turn, which (I assumed) triggered the ability. If an opponent counters VV before the trigger resolved, thereby putting VV into the graveyard, I thought that when the trigger resolved, VV would return to the battlefield.
However, apparently this is not the case. From the Rise FAQ:
I'm having trouble seeing the difference. If anyone could offer me some clarification, I would appreciate it!
Thanks a million,
Joey
Co-Host, In Contention Podcast / Yo! MTG Taps! Podcast
In Contention
Yo! MTG Taps!
Twitter.com/AffinityForBlue
The relevant rule is as follows:
112.6. Abilities of an instant or sorcery spell usually function only while that object is on the stack. Abilities of all other objects usually function only while that object is on the battlefield. The exceptions are as follows:
112.6a Characteristic-defining abilities function everywhere, even outside the game. (See rule 604.3.)
112.6b An ability that states which zones it functions in functions only from those zones.
112.6c An object's ability that modifies what that particular object costs to cast functions on the stack.
112.6d An object's ability that restricts or modifies how that particular object can be played or cast functions in any zone from which it could be played or cast.
112.6e An object's ability that restricts or modifies what zones that particular object can be played or cast from functions in all zones.
112.6f An object's ability that modifies how that particular object enters the battlefield functions as that object is entering the battlefield. See rule 614.12.
112.6g An object's activated ability that has a cost that can't be paid while the object is on the battlefield functions from any zone in which its cost can be paid.
112.6h A trigger condition that can't trigger from the battlefield functions in all zones it can trigger from. Other trigger conditions of the same triggered ability may function in different zones.
Example: Absolver Thrull has the ability "When Absolver Thrull enters the battlefield or the creature it haunts is put into a graveyard, destroy target enchantment." The first trigger condition functions from the battlefield and the second trigger condition functions from the exile zone. (See rule 702.52, "Haunt.")
112.6i An ability whose cost or effect specifies that it moves the object it's on out of a particular zone functions only in that zone, unless that ability's trigger condition, or a previous part of that ability's cost or effect, specifies that the object is put into that zone.
Example: Necrosavant says "{3}{B}{B}, Sacrifice a creature: Return Necrosavant from your graveyard to the battlefield. Activate this ability only during your upkeep." A player may activate this ability only if Necrosavant is in his or her graveyard.
112.6j An ability that modifies the rules for deck construction functions before the game begins. Such an ability modifies not just the Comprehensive Rules, but also the _Magic: The Gathering_ Tournament Rules and any other documents that set the deck construction rules for a specific Constructed format. However, such an ability can't affect the format legality of a card, including whether it's banned or restricted. The current _Magic: The Gathering_ Tournament Rules can be found at <http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Events.aspx?x=dci/doccenter/home>.
112.6k Abilities of plane cards and vanguard cards function in the command zone. See rule 901, "Planar Magic," and rule 902, "Vanguard."
The bolded part is the one that applies to Vengevine.
Procrastination is an art form, and I am an artist.
Knowledge knows no bounds.
And so people say to me, "How do I know if a word is real?" You know, anyone who's read a children's book knows that love makes things real. If you love a word, use it! That makes it real. Being in the dictionary is an artificial distinction; it doesn't make the word any more real than any other word. If you love a word, it becomes real.
--Erin McKean, Redefining the Dictionary
There's probably a simpler way to explain it, but that's the difference. Vengevine says "return ~this~..." while Demidgod says "Return all cards named Demigod of Revenge..."
Co-Host, In Contention Podcast / Yo! MTG Taps! Podcast
In Contention
Yo! MTG Taps!
Twitter.com/AffinityForBlue