So, as a Jhoira player, I'm left asking myself whether all those relearn effects are actually helping you. I understand Mnemonic Wall, Izzet Chronarch, and Anarchist, and maybe relearn, but I feel like you kind of take it overboard.
Wouldn't more finishers (if multiplayer focused) or more counterspells (if more 1v1) be better than deja vu and the like?
Dunno, just my first reaction. Feel free to explain why I'm wrong if you disagree.
I've got a similar deck, and have found Eye of Ugin to be indispensable. It's not really a land since you're never rarely the Eldrazi anyways, but the ability to uncounterably tutor for an Eldrazi, Darksteel Colossus, or Duplicant every turn is not to be underestimated.
Jace seems awful as multiplayer card-draw. His +2 is effectively useless, making him a slow, vulnerable Concentrate. I'd much rather run Ponder, Foresee, or Fact or Fiction in that slot.
I would note, however, that both extra-turn combos and mass land-destruction tend to be frowned upon in multiplayer EDH, so I question how many people are going to want to play against you with this deck. If you're in an extremely competitive playgroup that's fine with that sort of thing, though, this seems like a very solid deck.
So, as a Jhoira player, I'm left asking myself whether all those relearn effects are actually helping you. I understand Mnemonic Wall, Izzet Chronarch, and Anarchist, and maybe relearn, but I feel like you kind of take it overboard.
Wouldn't more finishers (if multiplayer focused) or more counterspells (if more 1v1) be better than deja vu and the like?
Dunno, just my first reaction. Feel free to explain why I'm wrong if you disagree.
I really want to come across at least 2 regrowth effects per game. I'm running so many since its 6 out of 100 cards. Plus Kiki and a sorcery recursion creature make infinte turns.
I did think about putting Fork and Twincast instead of the other 2 Relearns. What do you think? They will have other uses but also make it more mana dependant to take multiple turns in a row.
I've got a similar deck, and have found Eye of Ugin to be indispensable. It's not really a land since you're never rarely the Eldrazi anyways, but the ability to uncounterably tutor for an Eldrazi, Darksteel Colossus, or Duplicant every turn is not to be underestimated.
Jace seems awful as multiplayer card-draw. His +2 is effectively useless, making him a slow, vulnerable Concentrate. I'd much rather run Ponder, Foresee, or Fact or Fiction in that slot.
I would note, however, that both extra-turn combos and mass land-destruction tend to be frowned upon in multiplayer EDH, so I question how many people are going to want to play against you with this deck. If you're in an extremely competitive playgroup that's fine with that sort of thing, though, this seems like a very solid deck.
I removed Jace for FoF, since I took FoF out for Recurring Insight.
I don't use Recoup since it will exile the "Time Walks" after one re-use.
As for the making people upset, I have a problem making decks weaker than they can be. Most EDH decks can randomly combo anyways. Its not an issue.
this is a jhoria combo deck
please give me ideas on how to take on agro and other kinds of decks that you think would absolutely destroy this.
I love wipe + suspended emrakul
( trying to get ulamog, timewarp, cryptic command, kozilek, sensei's devining top)
Although its not stated there are a lot of stupid combos in here too
example is fatestitcher + Rings + a everflowing chalice with more than 2 mana on it or with infinite mana use fatestitcher+ rings + Stuffy Doll
Jhoira's not exactly my first General. That was Kraj. I've built and played many decks, but Jhoira remains my favorite by far.
That being said, I've noticed that this may be the one deck Lightning Greaves isn't really useful in. As long as you're playing Jhoira with suspend mana open, she doesn't die to hate. The table almost always shifts to dealing with the suspended threat instead. I've notied this trend over dozens of games in multiple playgroups.
As great as Propaganda is, it's worthless against any deck with mass mana production, or one that swings with only one or two dudes. Only bother with Propaganda if you're in a token/zerg heavy metagame, since it's great early game to force them to pick between beats or board position, as well as really slowing down tokens to only a few a turn. However, late game, they'll probably go Voltron and send one big guy your way, happily paying the 2 mana. Evacuation is great, especially if nobody but you runs Reliquary Tower, which you should sub in for one of your mountains prolly.
As great as Propaganda is, it's worthless against any deck with mass mana production, or one that swings with only one or two dudes. Only bother with Propaganda if you're in a token/zerg heavy metagame, since it's great early game to force them to pick between beats or board position, as well as really slowing down tokens to only a few a turn. However, late game, they'll probably go Voltron and send one big guy your way, happily paying the 2 mana. Evacuation is great, especially if nobody but you runs Reliquary Tower, which you should sub in for one of your mountains prolly.
my goal is to slow them down enough for my infinite or wipe + suspend emrakul takes off
my goal is to slow them down enough for my infinite or wipe + suspend emrakul takes off
In that case, I'd rely more on Sleep, Cryptic Command, maybe Mind Over Matter, and for sure Evacuation. A few well-timed tap-downs can buy you an entire turn.
Or, since you're wanting to get your wipe out as fast as you can, to be followed by Emrakul, you might want to run Paradox Haze and Savor the Moment. You won't be able to untap if you use Savor, but it's another time counter off all your suspended stuff.
For that matter, maybe you should use Stitch in Time. It's not all that consistent, but it can buy you another turn.
In that case, I'd rely more on Sleep, Cryptic Command, maybe Mind Over Matter, and for sure Evacuation. A few well-timed tap-downs can buy you an entire turn.
Or, since you're wanting to get your wipe out as fast as you can, to be followed by Emrakul, you might want to run Paradox Haze and Savor the Moment. You won't be able to untap if you use Savor, but it's another time counter off all your suspended stuff.
For that matter, maybe you should use Stitch in Time. It's not all that consistent, but it can buy you another turn.
I want my cards to handle not only one on one but multi player as well so I am not going to run sleep. I also already run Savor the moment. I need to save all my mana to ramp.
I want my cards to handle not only one on one but multi player as well so I am not going to run sleep. I also already run Savor the moment. I need to save all my mana to ramp.
Sleep is still pretty good, even if you're in multiplayer. You can probably take a hit or two from Guy A, but if Guy B attacks, or can tap his dudes for mana/combo next turn, bad stuff. So, tap down Guy B. You can also use this for politics. You can team up with another player. Tell him "If you let me be this turn, I can help you get rid of PROBLEM PLAYER or PROBLEM PLAYER'S PROBLEM CARD, just help me out." And then you toss down Sleep, tap all of PROBLEM GUY's stuff, and watch your new ally do the dirty work before you off him.
If you want to focus on mana ramp being saved, use Ensnare. 3U, instant, tap all creatures. You can also return 2 islands you control to their owners hands to pay for it, so although it'll set you back a turn or two on land drops, you can toss it out when you're tapped out. It'll also make your opponents think about whether or not you have it after you've used it a few games, and god knows that sometimes a removal spell is just as good in your deck as it is in your hand.
EDIT: Speaking of Ensnare, use Ensnaring Bridge. If you end up in topdeck mode, it'll make you untouchable, and if you still have a few cards in your hand, it'll at least limit the size of the dudes that can smack you. You might also use War Tax, which is mana intensive, but can really put a damper on guys. It's a pay-as-you-go version of Propaganda.
First of all, the OP said s/he had a problem with aggro. That is why the suggestion of Propaganda.
Second, Ensnaring Bridge is an awful idea in a deck that runs blue and a whole bunch of high cost things. Your hand size will hardly ever be small enough for that to matter.
Another option that would probably be better is Meishin, the Mind Cage. It is basically the opposite of ensnaring bridge and better suited to a slow blue deck.
First of all, the OP said s/he had a problem with aggro. That is why the suggestion of Propaganda.
Second, Ensnaring Bridge is an awful idea in a deck that runs blue and a whole bunch of high cost things. Your hand size will hardly ever be small enough for that to matter.
Another option that would probably be better is Meishin, the Mind Cage. It is basically the opposite of ensnaring bridge and better suited to a slow blue deck.
I was just tossing out ideas. I figured at the least he could give the bridge a try, since it would keep the bigger guys at bay.
I didn't think about Meishin, but he also said he's having trouble with aggro before his fieldwipes/big guys can come out of suspend. Assuming he plays Jhoira turn 3, and she lives to see turn 4, that means he'd only be getting Meishin out the turn before his field wipe, anyway. While Meishin might be a good idea for stopping his butt from getting whooped, it's way too costly and way too slow to stop his current problem.
i remember some black guy once called me called me cracker i didnt know what he was meaning. but them i found out that it is a Racially motivated term for white people, based on the fact that we're the same color as Saltines.
If you could suspend the top card of your library with Future Sight that'd be pretty cool but mostly I think it just reveals a bunch of fat you'd rather not pay full price for.
If you could suspend the top card of your library with Future Sight that'd be pretty cool but mostly I think it just reveals a bunch of fat you'd rather not pay full price for.
Future Sight is such amazing card advantage to have when just trying to draw to threats or recover after board wiping.
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():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:
UR Jhoira RU WBG Doran GBW URG Intet GRU WG Rhys GW WBU Zur UBW G SNAKES on a Plane (as it refers to MTG (Seshiro) G
Merged the 2 front page Jhoira threads. Please check at least the first couple pages before posting a new thread for a general/deck that already exists.
And merged another one in from Discussion page. Appropriate warning given.
Merged the 2 front page Jhoira threads. Please check at least the first couple pages before posting a new thread for a general/deck that already exists.
And merged another one in from Discussion page. Appropriate warning given.
There are contradictory methods being given by which to post one's deck list. I followed the instructions given to me by this. So, please, feel free to make this issue more apparent or you're going to be very busy. You might not want to look at the front page's 15 Uril threads before you go moving a perfectly legit decklist in a perfectly legit place for it.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
EDH:
UR Jhoira RU WBG Doran GBW URG Intet GRU WG Rhys GW WBU Zur UBW G SNAKES on a Plane (as it refers to MTG (Seshiro) G
I'm gonna have to agree with jbeeneq on that one, KP. I think that primers should probably be put up here, if not in the archives, or you can make your own thread. We're not really discussing how best to make the perfect multiplayer Jhoira Deck, people are asking if anyone has tips based on what they have. That's the whole point of EDH is to make a deck your own, not make it a carbon-copy of every other deck with the same General. Plus, you'd have to make a thread for Competitive Jhoira and a thread for Casual Jhoira.
::GENERAL::
Jhoira
::CREATURES::
::SPELLS::
misc
remov-all
Stolenery
extra turns
draw
search
counters
mana accelerators
::LAND::
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
Wouldn't more finishers (if multiplayer focused) or more counterspells (if more 1v1) be better than deja vu and the like?
Dunno, just my first reaction. Feel free to explain why I'm wrong if you disagree.
I'm a big fan of Recoup as a way to re-use Time Warp effects. Mirror Sheen is absurd for suspending Time Stretch or similar spells.
Jace seems awful as multiplayer card-draw. His +2 is effectively useless, making him a slow, vulnerable Concentrate. I'd much rather run Ponder, Foresee, or Fact or Fiction in that slot.
I would note, however, that both extra-turn combos and mass land-destruction tend to be frowned upon in multiplayer EDH, so I question how many people are going to want to play against you with this deck. If you're in an extremely competitive playgroup that's fine with that sort of thing, though, this seems like a very solid deck.
I really want to come across at least 2 regrowth effects per game. I'm running so many since its 6 out of 100 cards. Plus Kiki and a sorcery recursion creature make infinte turns.
I did think about putting Fork and Twincast instead of the other 2 Relearns. What do you think? They will have other uses but also make it more mana dependant to take multiple turns in a row.
I removed Jace for FoF, since I took FoF out for Recurring Insight.
I don't use Recoup since it will exile the "Time Walks" after one re-use.
As for the making people upset, I have a problem making decks weaker than they can be. Most EDH decks can randomly combo anyways. Its not an issue.
B Lover Since '09 ~
Standard:
meh.
Modern:
Urzatron GR
Vintage:
Contol-Slaver UBR
EDH:
Drana B
Jhoira UR
Savra BG
Turned into:
Adun Oakenshield BGR
Sharuum BUW
Turned into:
Memnarch U
KiKi-Jiki R
Turned into:
Godo R
Turned into:
Aurelia RW
The Mimeoplasm UBG
Rasputin Dreamweaver UW
Turned into:
Geist of Saint Traft -French 1v1 UW
Nekusar UBR
please give me ideas on how to take on agro and other kinds of decks that you think would absolutely destroy this.
I love wipe + suspended emrakul
( trying to get ulamog, timewarp, cryptic command, kozilek, sensei's devining top)
Although its not stated there are a lot of stupid combos in here too
example is fatestitcher + Rings + a everflowing chalice with more than 2 mana on it or with infinite mana use fatestitcher+ rings + Stuffy Doll
another one is earthquake + stuffy doll
That being said, I've noticed that this may be the one deck Lightning Greaves isn't really useful in. As long as you're playing Jhoira with suspend mana open, she doesn't die to hate. The table almost always shifts to dealing with the suspended threat instead. I've notied this trend over dozens of games in multiple playgroups.
It's been a dead card for me, really.
evacuation is pretty good so I will look into that, I do want propaganda too
also adding Mnemonic Wall
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
my goal is to slow them down enough for my infinite or wipe + suspend emrakul takes off
In that case, I'd rely more on Sleep, Cryptic Command, maybe Mind Over Matter, and for sure Evacuation. A few well-timed tap-downs can buy you an entire turn.
Or, since you're wanting to get your wipe out as fast as you can, to be followed by Emrakul, you might want to run Paradox Haze and Savor the Moment. You won't be able to untap if you use Savor, but it's another time counter off all your suspended stuff.
For that matter, maybe you should use Stitch in Time. It's not all that consistent, but it can buy you another turn.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
I want my cards to handle not only one on one but multi player as well so I am not going to run sleep. I also already run Savor the moment. I need to save all my mana to ramp.
Sleep is still pretty good, even if you're in multiplayer. You can probably take a hit or two from Guy A, but if Guy B attacks, or can tap his dudes for mana/combo next turn, bad stuff. So, tap down Guy B. You can also use this for politics. You can team up with another player. Tell him "If you let me be this turn, I can help you get rid of PROBLEM PLAYER or PROBLEM PLAYER'S PROBLEM CARD, just help me out." And then you toss down Sleep, tap all of PROBLEM GUY's stuff, and watch your new ally do the dirty work before you off him.
If you want to focus on mana ramp being saved, use Ensnare. 3U, instant, tap all creatures. You can also return 2 islands you control to their owners hands to pay for it, so although it'll set you back a turn or two on land drops, you can toss it out when you're tapped out. It'll also make your opponents think about whether or not you have it after you've used it a few games, and god knows that sometimes a removal spell is just as good in your deck as it is in your hand.
EDIT: Speaking of Ensnare, use Ensnaring Bridge. If you end up in topdeck mode, it'll make you untouchable, and if you still have a few cards in your hand, it'll at least limit the size of the dudes that can smack you. You might also use War Tax, which is mana intensive, but can really put a damper on guys. It's a pay-as-you-go version of Propaganda.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Second, Ensnaring Bridge is an awful idea in a deck that runs blue and a whole bunch of high cost things. Your hand size will hardly ever be small enough for that to matter.
Another option that would probably be better is Meishin, the Mind Cage. It is basically the opposite of ensnaring bridge and better suited to a slow blue deck.
I was just tossing out ideas. I figured at the least he could give the bridge a try, since it would keep the bigger guys at bay.
I didn't think about Meishin, but he also said he's having trouble with aggro before his fieldwipes/big guys can come out of suspend. Assuming he plays Jhoira turn 3, and she lives to see turn 4, that means he'd only be getting Meishin out the turn before his field wipe, anyway. While Meishin might be a good idea for stopping his butt from getting whooped, it's way too costly and way too slow to stop his current problem.
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.
Jhoira of the Ghitu
Creatures, Suspendy Goodness (11)
Niv-Mizzet, the FiremindEmrakul, the Aeons Torn
Creatures, Utility/Douchbaggary (8)
"General" Utility (6)
Mana Utility (7)
Card Draw (8)
Enchantments (3)
Counter Magic (8)
TURNS!! (4)
Board Wipe (3)
GOTCHA! (5)
Land (36)
Island (9)
Mountain (6)
- Ghitu Encampment
- Faerie Conclave
- Vivid Crag
- Vivid Creek
- Cascade Bluffs
- Volcanic Island
- Steam Vents
- Shivian Reef
- Izzet Boilerworks
- Spinerock Knoll
- Great Furnace
- Seat of the Synod
- Scalding Tarn
- Grixis Panorama
- Boseiju, Who Shelters All
- Reliquary Tower
- Darksteel Citadel
- Vesuva
- Mutavault
- Academy Ruins
- Mishra's Factory
But that's all I have. I realize now that I don't have a Mindslaver in here, so I think I need to add that somewhere.UR Jhoira RU
WBG Doran GBW
URG Intet GRU
WG Rhys GW
WBU Zur UBW
G SNAKES on a Plane (as it refers to MTG (Seshiro) G
T2:
URG Destructive Money URG
Glissa, the Traitor, Ulasht, the Hate Seed, The Mimeoplasm
I don't own one mainly. At first I thought this was only Annihilator 2, but 4 is pretty good. I might get one.
Future Sight is such amazing card advantage to have when just trying to draw to threats or recover after board wiping.
UR Jhoira RU
WBG Doran GBW
URG Intet GRU
WG Rhys GW
WBU Zur UBW
G SNAKES on a Plane (as it refers to MTG (Seshiro) G
T2:
URG Destructive Money URG
that would be great if I had the money lol
And merged another one in from Discussion page. Appropriate warning given.
There are contradictory methods being given by which to post one's deck list. I followed the instructions given to me by this. So, please, feel free to make this issue more apparent or you're going to be very busy. You might not want to look at the front page's 15 Uril threads before you go moving a perfectly legit decklist in a perfectly legit place for it.
UR Jhoira RU
WBG Doran GBW
URG Intet GRU
WG Rhys GW
WBU Zur UBW
G SNAKES on a Plane (as it refers to MTG (Seshiro) G
T2:
URG Destructive Money URG
The latest Comprehensive Rules are also good, and can be found here.