This is my Teneb deck. I have had it for maybe a year now. It proves to be very powerful in both 1v1 and multiplayer. Basically I build mana and card advantage/board position and try to win through the sheer power that GWB provides.
Any thoughts on the deck are very welcome. Especially things like "why is card x in/not in the deck?". As are things like you should add/take out more/less of x/y/z.
You also might want to look at running Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The card is just a beast and saves you from Tunnel Vision combo. (It's a very popular card at my shop, and my U/B Dralnu deck has had to start running Offalsnout and Sadistic Sacrament to deal with it.)
Other things to look at...Idyllic Tutor and Enlightened Tutor maybe? It's always great to be able to find Wake, Knell, P. Deed, N. Disk, etc.
Wood Elves and Angel of Despair are good cards. And despite jankiness, Fleshbag Marauder deals with indestructibles. (Recursing it every turn with Knell has stalled many an opponent when I was topdecking.)
Rout is simply amazing. The ability to wrath at instant speed can't be underestimated, and it draws less threat than, say, Nevinyyral's Disk. I've often tutored it up in multiplayer games and revealed it as an incentive to not attack me.
But then, my Teneb deck runs ~13 mass removal and a dozen spot removal cards, so it's really more controlly than anything. Your list looks solid, and I can see how it'd definitely be faster and better in 1v1 than mine. I'll definitely have to go and get myself a Three Visits; I'd never seen that one before...
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All the reanimate effects are good, and I used to have more of them. I think after a while I noticed that they seemed to be not that great. It just seemed like there was always something better to do, but I also have few creatures, so that could be part of it.
Emrakul and the other three Eldrazi will probably find their way into the list. Emrakul is crazy, even without hardcasting it. Ulamog is pretty much superior to Darksteel Colossus. Kozilek might not be needed though. With Tooth and Nail, Emrakul is easy to get out. Also the Eldrazi interact well with Survival of the Fittest to shuffle my graveyard back into my library.
I'm not sure about Enlightened Tutor, I have found I don't really like Sylvan Tutor as not having the card in your hand is negative card advantage. But, Idyllic Tutor is definitely a good card. I'll have to pick one up.
[color=Blue]At the very least, Beacon of Unrest should deserve a slot.
Beacon of Unrest is really good in my Korlash deck, and it was in here at some point. I'm not sure what went in for it. The two cards I could see removing are Sylvan Tutor and Marshall's Anthem. What do you think?
Decree of Pains will probably be in the next un-set.
Decree of Pains 3BB
Enchantment
Whenever a creature is dealt damage you may stand up and yell "That hurt!"
If you do, regenerate that creature and you lose one life.
I'd take out Crush of Wurms, but that's just me. I just don't think it fits with your theme.
Crush of Wurms is so good though. Its 18 power for 9 mana. With flashback so it has built in recurrability. Definitely a possibility. I might just like the card too much.
One thing I have noticed in this deck is that it is so reactive, and so a lot of games I won't do anything for the first 5 or so turns. I think I need to add some stuff like Baneslayer Angel, Garruk, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Sol Ring.
I like Eladamri's Call over Congregation, simply because you get the tutored creature immediately and is able to be casted right then and there if you have the mana to do so. It also doesn't cost your draw step (or multiple draw steps depending on how many creatures you tutor for with CoD) to use and is slightly less intensive on mana.
That being said, I agree with CoD >> Sylvan Tutor.
I'll make these changes as I acquire the cards. What do you guys think?
I like these changes for the deck. Your deck looks like a prime target for a player playing U *cough*Bribery*cough*, but that tends to happen when you play these three colors together.
That is true, I'm a huge target for bribery, but thats what the removal is for I guess.
Strip Mine would be good in the deck, but I'm a stickler about my mana base. I can't see cutting any lands in the deck really. But I might be able to be persuaded. I don't worry about people's lands too much, and I definitely wouldn't be the guy to just recur Strip Mine to keep some one off of mana, not in EDH at least.
I feel like Kataki draws hate, just like a big beater, Akroma or Emrakul, but without the big beater to actually put people away. I'm not sure if it does enough.
I'll make these changes as I acquire the cards. What do you guys think?
I would strongly discourage you from cutting Promise of Power. 5 life CAN be a lot, but most of the time, it's not. 5 cards for 5 mana is efficiency that even blue can't get. The option for the demon is just a bonus. PoP is way better than Ambition's Cost/Ancient Craving, IMO. Unless the BBB turns you off, I guess.
Also, I personally don't like Kozilek or Emrakul in a deck that relies on the resources in its graveyard. Such poor synergy. Ulamog is fine, since it's unlikely he'll ever hit your yard (it's possible, though.)
All Suns' Dawn is amazing. Definitely get your hands on one.
Here's a list of other suggested changes, in no particular order:
Add High Market and Phyrexian Tower. If you're pulling off recursion tricks, you often need a cheap and easy way to kill your own creature.
Cut those common bounce lands. You have access to so many dual lands, you don't need to risk playing these. Everyone has Strip Mine, Acidic Slime, etc. and those bounce lands are delicious targets.
Other utility lands to consider: Bojuka Bog and Mosswort Bridge. The latter is especially underrated, IMO.
Another useful recursion engine worth considering is Sword of Light and Shadow. It will be better if you add a few more creatures.
Hallowed Burial is an awesome card, but I just don't think this is the right deck for it. Replace it with Austere Command. The versatility is wicked.
You probably need more creatures in general. If you really want to get the most out of recursion through Taneb, Volrath's Stronghold, Genesis, etc. and creature tutors like Survival and Congregation, then you should probably swap out some of your utility spells for creatures with equivalent effects.
You can take out some of the single-land fetchers for Wood Elves and Oracle of Mul Daya. The Oracle is better than she looks at first glance.
The only creature you currently have that destroys an enchant/artifact is Angel of Despair. You'll probably need more than that. Acidic Slime and Wickerbough Elder are nice. Viridian Zealot is nice for the deck, since it can kill itself. But the bigs guys you're going to want will be either Woodfall Primus and/or Terastodon. You mentioned Crush of Wurms was 18 power for 9 mana... Terastodon is 18 power for 8, if you use it on yourself. It's pretty versatile.
I agree with spezza on just about all of his suggestions. In general, I'm a huge fan of permanents over non-permanents, so I would take a real hard look at all of your instants and sorceries and see if there isn't a permanent that could accomplish the same task. For example:
- Wood Elves and Oracle of Mul Daya are extremely good at ramping. The former allows you to put dual-lands into play untapped, and the latter is also excellent for dumping many lands into play. Getting an Oracle and a Top online is insane.
- Hag Hedge-Mage serves as a second copy of Eternal Witness, so it could probably replace Regrowth.
- Riftsweeper is a must for Teneb decks, because someone at the table will target your graveyard, or you could just bring back All Suns' Dawn or Yawgmoth's Will.
- Hallowed Burial is usually a great card, but it's wrong for a deck that wants bodies in the graveyard. Austere Command, Rout or Planar Cleansing are all better.
Finally, I think you need more bodies in general. I count less than 20 creatures in a deck that is all about recursion. More specifically, I would get more bodies that have relevant abilities, and less vanilla bodies like Darksteel Colossus and Akroma.
List:
1 Savannah
2 Bayou
3 Scrubland
4 Temple Garden
5 Overgrown Tomb
6 Godless Shrine
7 Brushland
8 Llanowar Wastes
9 Caves of Koilos
10 Selesnya Sanctuary
11 Golgari Rot Farm
12 Orzhov Basilica
13 Wooded Bastion
14 Twilight Mire
15 Fetid Heath
16 Flooded Strand
17 Polluted Delta
18 Bloodstained Mire
19 Wooded Foothills
20 Windswept Heath
21 Marsh Flats
22 Verdant Catacombs
23 Misty Rainforest
24 Arid Mesa
25 Swamp
26 Swamp
27 Swamp
28 Forest
29 Forest
30 Forest
31 Plains
32 Plains
33 Plains
34 Horizon Canopy
35 Murmoring Bosk
36 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
37 Temple of the False God
38 Ancient Tomb
39 Volrath's Stronghold
40 Farseek
41 Three Visits
42 Nature's Lore
43 Crucible of Worlds
44 Kodama's Reach
45 Darksteel Ingot
46 Skyshroud Claim
47 Mirari's Wake
48 Gilded Lotus
49 Mana Reflection
Spells: Recursion
50 Regrowth
51 Recollect
52 Yawgmoth's Will
53 Marshall's Anthem
54 Restock
55 Debtor's Knell
Spells: Tutor/Draw/Filter
56 Sylvan Tutor
57 Sensei's Divining Top
58 Vampiric Tutor
59 Mirri's Guile
60 Demonic Tutor
61 Survival of the Fittest
62 Eladamri's Call
63 Sylvan Library
64 Phyrexian Arena
65 Ambition's Cost
66 Harmonize
67 Diabolic Tutor
68 Ancient Craving
69 Promise of Power
Spells: Threats
70 Tooth and Nail
71 Liliana Vess
72 Crush of Wurms
73 Path to Exile
74 Maelstrom Pulse
75 Putrefy
76 Pernicious Deed
77 Vindicate
78 Mortify
79 Hallowed Burial
80 Akroma's Vengeance
81 Decree of Pain
82 Profane Command
Spells: Creatures
83 Sakura-Tribe Elder
84 Eternal Witness
85 Solemn Simulacrum
86 Graveborn Muse
87 Thicket Elemental
88 Genesis
89 Shriekmaw
90 Yosei, the Morning Star
91 Visara the Dreadful
92 Angel of Despair
93 Myojin of Night's Reach
94 Myojin of Cleansing Fire
95 Akroma, Angel of Wrath
96 Avatar of Woe
97 Reya Dawnbringer
98 Iona, Shield of Emeria
99 Darksteel Colossus
100 Teneb, the Harvester
Any thoughts on the deck are very welcome. Especially things like "why is card x in/not in the deck?". As are things like you should add/take out more/less of x/y/z.
Thread moved to 1v1 and warned.
Moved to MP per OP request.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
You also might want to look at running Emrakul, the Aeons Torn. The card is just a beast and saves you from Tunnel Vision combo. (It's a very popular card at my shop, and my U/B Dralnu deck has had to start running Offalsnout and Sadistic Sacrament to deal with it.)
Other things to look at...Idyllic Tutor and Enlightened Tutor maybe? It's always great to be able to find Wake, Knell, P. Deed, N. Disk, etc.
Wood Elves and Angel of Despair are good cards. And despite jankiness, Fleshbag Marauder deals with indestructibles. (Recursing it every turn with Knell has stalled many an opponent when I was topdecking.)
Rout is simply amazing. The ability to wrath at instant speed can't be underestimated, and it draws less threat than, say, Nevinyyral's Disk. I've often tutored it up in multiplayer games and revealed it as an incentive to not attack me.
But then, my Teneb deck runs ~13 mass removal and a dozen spot removal cards, so it's really more controlly than anything. Your list looks solid, and I can see how it'd definitely be faster and better in 1v1 than mine. I'll definitely have to go and get myself a Three Visits; I'd never seen that one before...
My Trade Thread!
Emrakul and the other three Eldrazi will probably find their way into the list. Emrakul is crazy, even without hardcasting it. Ulamog is pretty much superior to Darksteel Colossus. Kozilek might not be needed though. With Tooth and Nail, Emrakul is easy to get out. Also the Eldrazi interact well with Survival of the Fittest to shuffle my graveyard back into my library.
I'm not sure about Enlightened Tutor, I have found I don't really like Sylvan Tutor as not having the card in your hand is negative card advantage. But, Idyllic Tutor is definitely a good card. I'll have to pick one up.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
P.S., what is Decree of Pains?
I'm kidding, it just got me thinking about some 10-year-old kid in the middle ages:
*falls off roof* Mother, father, indeed I think you should be informed that I am decreeing my outer extremities to be in a physical state of pain.
Beacon of Unrest is really good in my Korlash deck, and it was in here at some point. I'm not sure what went in for it. The two cards I could see removing are Sylvan Tutor and Marshall's Anthem. What do you think?
Decree of Pains will probably be in the next un-set.
Decree of Pains 3BB
Enchantment
Whenever a creature is dealt damage you may stand up and yell "That hurt!"
If you do, regenerate that creature and you lose one life.
But thanks for pointing that out.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
Crush of Wurms is so good though. Its 18 power for 9 mana. With flashback so it has built in recurrability. Definitely a possibility. I might just like the card too much.
One thing I have noticed in this deck is that it is so reactive, and so a lot of games I won't do anything for the first 5 or so turns. I think I need to add some stuff like Baneslayer Angel, Garruk, Oracle of Mul Daya, and Sol Ring.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
Mana Reflection seems to be a bit slow for ramp. Maybe use Beacon here?
Alo, I'd say swap out Path to Exile for Condemn or Oblation.
Eldamri's Call is good, but I think you'll like Congregation at Dawn better. I've been suggesting that card a lot, it's really good.
However, Congregation at Dawn seems really sick. I'm going to cut Sylvan Tutor for it once I find one.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
That being said, I agree with CoD >> Sylvan Tutor.
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=380755
-1 Promise of Power +1 Kozilek, Butcher of Truth. The 5 life can be a lot. Kozilek is probably better than an X/X demon.
-1 Visara, the Dreadful +1 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre. Visara is somewhat slow.
-1 Myojin of Something/Darksteel Colossus +1 Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
Also, I'm thinking All Suns' Dawn is probably better than Recollect because by the time I want to recollect anything I will be at way more than 3 mana, and getting up to 3 cards back is a lot better.
I'll make these changes as I acquire the cards. What do you guys think?
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
I like these changes for the deck. Your deck looks like a prime target for a player playing U *cough*Bribery*cough*, but that tends to happen when you play these three colors together.
No Strip Mine/Wasteland to go with that Crucible of Worlds?
With you only playing five artifacts, why not run Kataki, War's Wage? You have plenty of ways to tutor it up when it is needed.
Strip Mine would be good in the deck, but I'm a stickler about my mana base. I can't see cutting any lands in the deck really. But I might be able to be persuaded. I don't worry about people's lands too much, and I definitely wouldn't be the guy to just recur Strip Mine to keep some one off of mana, not in EDH at least.
I feel like Kataki draws hate, just like a big beater, Akroma or Emrakul, but without the big beater to actually put people away. I'm not sure if it does enough.
Level 1 Judge
WUBRG
I would strongly discourage you from cutting Promise of Power. 5 life CAN be a lot, but most of the time, it's not. 5 cards for 5 mana is efficiency that even blue can't get. The option for the demon is just a bonus. PoP is way better than Ambition's Cost/Ancient Craving, IMO. Unless the BBB turns you off, I guess.
Also, I personally don't like Kozilek or Emrakul in a deck that relies on the resources in its graveyard. Such poor synergy. Ulamog is fine, since it's unlikely he'll ever hit your yard (it's possible, though.)
All Suns' Dawn is amazing. Definitely get your hands on one.
Here's a list of other suggested changes, in no particular order:
Add High Market and Phyrexian Tower. If you're pulling off recursion tricks, you often need a cheap and easy way to kill your own creature.
Cut those common bounce lands. You have access to so many dual lands, you don't need to risk playing these. Everyone has Strip Mine, Acidic Slime, etc. and those bounce lands are delicious targets.
Speaking of Strip Mine, you should probably add your own. I know you're in three colours, but you can support a few more colourless lands. I also personally like the Onslaught cycle lands (Tranquil Thicket, etc). Fetches, Strip Mine, and cycle lands turn Crucible of Worlds and Life from the Loam (consider adding this) into powerhouses.
Other utility lands to consider: Bojuka Bog and Mosswort Bridge. The latter is especially underrated, IMO.
Another useful recursion engine worth considering is Sword of Light and Shadow. It will be better if you add a few more creatures.
Hallowed Burial is an awesome card, but I just don't think this is the right deck for it. Replace it with Austere Command. The versatility is wicked.
You probably need more creatures in general. If you really want to get the most out of recursion through Taneb, Volrath's Stronghold, Genesis, etc. and creature tutors like Survival and Congregation, then you should probably swap out some of your utility spells for creatures with equivalent effects.
You can take out some of the single-land fetchers for Wood Elves and Oracle of Mul Daya. The Oracle is better than she looks at first glance.
The only creature you currently have that destroys an enchant/artifact is Angel of Despair. You'll probably need more than that. Acidic Slime and Wickerbough Elder are nice. Viridian Zealot is nice for the deck, since it can kill itself. But the bigs guys you're going to want will be either Woodfall Primus and/or Terastodon. You mentioned Crush of Wurms was 18 power for 9 mana... Terastodon is 18 power for 8, if you use it on yourself. It's pretty versatile.
Duplicant is a second Shriekmaw. Also, Archon of Justice is a pretty wicked card if you have a way to sacrifice it and recur it. I also like to have at least one creature with sweeping capabilities. Something like Bane of the Living or Reiver Demon.
Hope some of these ideas help you.
EDH
Azami (video)
:symw::symb::symg: Teneb (video)
Drana (video) (retired)
:symw::symr: Brion (video)
:symb::symr: Wort (video)
Arcum (video) (retired)
:symr::symg: Stonebrow (video)
B Shirei (video)
WU Rasputin (video) (retired)
R Urabrask (video)
WUR Zedruu (video) (retired)
W Isamaru
UB Grimgrin
U Mistform Ultimus (video)
UBR Gwendlyn (video)
URG Animar (video)
RG Thromok
WB Selenia
Standard
WU Geist of Saint Traft standard EDH (video) (retired)
WUB Battle of Wits!
- Wood Elves and Oracle of Mul Daya are extremely good at ramping. The former allows you to put dual-lands into play untapped, and the latter is also excellent for dumping many lands into play. Getting an Oracle and a Top online is insane.
- Hag Hedge-Mage serves as a second copy of Eternal Witness, so it could probably replace Regrowth.
- Riftsweeper is a must for Teneb decks, because someone at the table will target your graveyard, or you could just bring back All Suns' Dawn or Yawgmoth's Will.
- Hallowed Burial is usually a great card, but it's wrong for a deck that wants bodies in the graveyard. Austere Command, Rout or Planar Cleansing are all better.
Finally, I think you need more bodies in general. I count less than 20 creatures in a deck that is all about recursion. More specifically, I would get more bodies that have relevant abilities, and less vanilla bodies like Darksteel Colossus and Akroma.
Yeva (88/92 foils)
Raff
Scarab
Rakdos
Wort ($50 budget, 94/97 foils)
Trostani