It's not that fact that he lied; lynch all liars is something I take with discretion. The logic behind a town player lying is that he should do so if there is nothing adverse in doing so.
He's made too many mistakes here and there that are scummish. His lie isn't the main motive to lynch him; it's one of many little things that snowballed into his case along the way.
I'm not denying his wagon moved with amazing speed- it bothers me as well to some degree and those players should be looked into, including myself if needed. I had a HoS on Bebo before my vote- his continued play changed that into a vote, so it's not exactly that I was willing to vote him given more scum slips and tells- which he gave.
@Bebo: Lynch or lose is a game state in which after the lynch for that day, if scum wasn't nailed via the town's lynch, the scum brings the town total equal to the scum total via their NK and will win. Generally, a 12 player game has 3 scum, IIRC.
@Atlseal: No, I haven't. Does this mean it's not actually a game term?
@TIK: So, if I'm town, like I claim, then town's essentially screwed since they got the doc? (Unless there's a vig.) I'm only asking this to clarify, not trying to imply anything with it.
Real quick for tonight. The major part was his fishing. You haven't had a problem with my vote up until now? Your vote on me does not bother me, what am I like the 3rd or 4th person you've laid a vote on today? It's an empty vote. Your mad that other people are now voting bebo so you vote me? You've sat back lately and let this wagon get this far and now really push to halt it. In fact you jump off your vote of Arcadic(which you were dead set on and haven't pushed lately) to place it on me. Nothing like trying to stall out the day to get to the deadline.
Otherwise, we'll just be going forth just saying "He's obv scum" "No, he isn't".
This is funny. See I've mentioned his scummy-ness throughtout. So tell me, why would you say "no he isn't"?
Real quick for tonight. The major part was his fishing. You haven't had a problem with my vote up until now? Your vote on me does not bother me, what am I like the 3rd or 4th person you've laid a vote on today? It's an empty vote. Your mad that other people are now voting bebo so you vote me? You've sat back lately and let this wagon get this far and now really push to halt it. In fact you jump off your vote of Arcadic(which you were dead set on and haven't pushed lately) to place it on me. Nothing like trying to stall out the day to get to the deadline.
1) That's pretty blatant fear-mongering right there. We have over a week left until the deadline. That's plenty of time.
2) I didn't have a problem with your vote until this wagon went from 0-60 so fast. This drew all my attention to those on the wagon. You were one of the three that are on this and ExLight's.
3) I'm not mad other people are voting bebo, where did you get that idea?
4) Sit back? When I left, the wagon had 2 votes, I come back and he's at L-1? Big difference there bub.
This is funny. See I've mentioned his scummy-ness throughtout. So tell me, why would you say "no he isn't"?
Yeah, a here/there this is scummy. I want to see what you think your strongest points against him are.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Basically, I found you suspicious in the beginning playing the newb card, as you were doing in #28. The other two reasons I think you are suspicious is how the whole thing between you and AE, I don't like the way you turned out after that.
And the lesser of the reasons is your interactions with Manders. If she were to turn up scum, I believe you to be her scum buddy. But for now, I just believe you to be shady, not scummy.
1) Is rag not voting or voting? And I don't think it is necessary suspicous. He has done quite a bit to get him on a lot of our radars.
2) Agree to disagree. I think he is a better lynch target.
3) Since she already spilled the beans on her flavor, I don't think it matters, but yes, don't do it.
What I feel weird about is that he has been at L-1 for quite some time. If he was town, I would assume he would have been lynched by now. It has been almost 36 hours since the last vote to move him into L-1 (manders). I think he is our best bet for tonight, and on the off chance he is scum, we can get a fairly good idea tomorrow...
@Escorian: You got anything to say on this?
So you think there is more then an off chance Bebo is town?
If you are truly town, I seriously doubt all 3 scum would be on your wagon right now. [If you are scum however, the two remaining could be trying to bus you and may be on your wagon after all. Its a curious situation, isn't it?
I am about 65% sure you are scum, but I have to ask: how bad would it hurt the town to go no lynch today?
So I take it if you flip scum all the scum were on Bebos wagon. This also strikes me as WIFOM.
I can't tell you the logistics of no lynch, but I'm assuming that without a doctor things would end up pretty dicey.
@TIK: At this point, Bebo's not random. He's a fish, flopping around miserably and waiting to be cooked. As such, I think at this point lynching him is wise and that he's been sitting at L-1 for quite a while.
@Atlseal: Explain why we shouldn't lynch him or point me in the directions of posts since that last statement that do so.
@Bebo:You can't prove that the scum are already voting for you and thus bussing you unless you're scum or the cop and got lucky on the investigation- and I doubt you're the cop because you claimed vanilla, and if you lied to us about your claim you'd probably be dead for that. We can't prove that the scum haven't casted votes on you. It's not WIFOM, but the logic is awful and hasn't done you any favors.
@Mandershex: Yay! Straight answer to the question I asked who knows how many pages ago! Also, keep the rest of the info private- that much is good to have because any tools the town has the scum doesn't is important.
The burden of proof is on you guys. Show me where Bebos play differs from random.
If you made an actual case against him, I must have missed it. Even went back search through the thread and couldn't find it. Please detail the top three reasons you think bebo is scum along with linked quotes or links. Otherwise, we'll just be going forth just saying "He's obv scum" "No, he isn't".
I'm concentrating on the lie portion because the way the weekend went, it seems that that's what a lot of people used to weigh against him and push him over into lynch area.
Really, think about it. You can't use the fact that he claimed and then lied about it in the beginning because claiming like that in the beginning is a bad play all around. As town or scum, you'd want to cover that up. He did what any player would do in that situation.
The fact that people are using it to justify his lynch weirds me out to no end. This wagon is not right. If there aren't at least two scum on his wagon right now, I'll eat my hat. Time for a ExLight/bebo cross-compare:
Wow, look at that... 3 players identical between the wagons with one that I'm damn near positive is town.
Unvote, Vote: Archmage Eternal
I want everyone voting Bebo to present a case for why he is scum not just "he is ob scum" There has not been a case provided to my satisfaction. One question here; why do you vote A.E. here and not Ice King? I find it more likely he is scum compared to A.E. You have the same amount of evidence to vote both.(from the bandwagons)
I want everyone voting Bebo to present a case for why he is scum not just "he is ob scum" There has not been a case provided to my satisfaction. One question here; why do you vote A.E. here and not Ice King? I find it more likely he is scum compared to A.E. You have the same amount of evidence to vote both.(from the bandwagons)
I already answered that, I'm damn near sure TIK is town. A valid question would have been why didn't I vote Escorien. To that, it was pretty much a coin-flip. AE's responses to the vote haven't convinced me to move it.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I think bebo is scum because of the lack of everything and the hollow-ness of his words. On day 1, it felt like he didn't do anything, and covered all that up with the excuse of being new and also behaving randomly. Being silly is not a scum tell, but it is if you're using it to get out of having to do anything. Later (Today), bebo started to actually contribute some actual opinions. I still find most of what he says feels empty. A lot of it is him commenting on what people did, without travelling any depth into it. Most of his posts though, are him defending himself, or asking questions about things like game state. Its easy for scum to play this way, and seeing as he changed his playstyle up to this in response to the attacks on his day 1 play, i'm thinking he is probably scum.
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Quote from ProphetKing »
"I started to lay down and then you haunted my dreams Rag.
I want to see what you think your strongest points against him are.
Didn't I go over this with shalako? How about reading the thread? I can't understand how you get such a strong town vibe from the scummiest person in here. If its not a strong town vibe I just assumed it was with this halting of the wagon.
Do you like that vote he put down? Ice you vote barning Rag. Did you mean you thought you were voting him too? I don't recall you saying much about bebo, I'll have to go back and look.
Didn't I go over this with shalako? How about reading the thread? I can't understand how you get such a strong town vibe from the scummiest person in here. If its not a strong town vibe I just assumed it was with this halting of the wagon.
Did you miss the part where I said that I searched through the whole thread and failed to find it? Your answer was just being unhelpful. I'm not going to go back and search the whole thread a second time to look for some post. I'd be willing to go back and search if you specified a general time frame like 'end of day 1'.
I must have missed where I said that I got a strong town vibe from bebo. The behavior of his wagon was all the evidence I need to oppose it. Without directly referencing ongoing games, even if a player is playing weird/bad, you can tell a lot by the way their wagon behaves and this wagon is all kinds of wrong.
Do you like that vote he put down?
No, I don't like it, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm damn near sure he's town.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
I must have missed where I said that I got a strong town vibe from bebo.
The behavior of his wagon was all the evidence I need to oppose it. Without directly referencing ongoing games, even if a player is playing weird/bad, you can tell a lot by the way their wagon behaves and this wagon is all kinds of wrong
You talk of the wagon and how fast it grew but you vote me. The one player that has been on it for awhile. Not the ones that piled on or the ones that gave no reason. That does not add up. Plus you say "obv. scum" won't do it. But isn't that what your doing with me? "Look, he is on both wagons. Scum." Contradiction?
You talk of the wagon and how fast it grew but you vote me. The one player that has been on it for awhile. Not the ones that piled on or the ones that gave no reason. That does not add up.
Actually, bad wagon = everyone suspect
Plus you say "obv. scum" won't do it. But isn't that what your doing with me? "Look, he is on both wagons. Scum." Contradiction?
What?
For someone not taking my vote seriously, you seem to be taking my vote seriously.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Atlseal, i hate your logic on this. Its just so bi-polar comapred to your d1 actions. This wagon is bad because LAL is bad, but your wagon was good because Lynch all slipups is a good policy? Exlights wagon is exactly the same substance and positioning of the current wagon, 1 person pushes is and the rest /barn on a "feeling". However!!!! i have to agree with you. I don't like the evidence despite a scummy feeling.
I would like to point out something else that i researched tonight. I did this because i thought it was odd that Shalako wasn't willing to see Bebo go.
Town
Escorien: I have him leaning town. Look at my Pbpa of him for why.
MandersHex: Needs to start posting more, I value her input.
Archmage Eternal: I think you are town as you have pretty relentlessly scum hunted.
atlseal: See Arcadic.
Arcadic: I believe that between him and Atlseal there must be scum. However both of their cases appear well founded in my view. He has more lurk points then Atlseal.
KrackShott r. Gaius: First thing he does when he comes into the game is start attacking players. I still don't like Gaius vote on Exlight at this time.
Ragnarokio: I need to do a read on him.
22bebo: I have no read on him, it bothers me because I have a read on everyone else.
The Ice King: The hammer. It was Awful but he's defended him self pretty well. Leaning scum.
Scum
So you think there is more then an off chance Bebo is town?
So I take it if you flip scum all the scum were on Bebos wagon. This also strikes me as WIFOM.
The burden of proof is on you guys. Show me where Bebos play differs from random.
I want everyone voting Bebo to present a case for why he is scum not just "he is ob scum" There has not been a case provided to my satisfaction. One question here; why do you vote A.E. here and not Ice King? I find it more likely he is scum compared to A.E. You have the same amount of evidence to vote both.(from the bandwagons)
Pure protection of Bebo at this point.
So Shalako, why did you think Bebo was scummy/anti-town but refuse to accept hammering? You seemed so sure of Bebo's guilt til it came down to you having to hammer.
Another point of evidence that helps this interaction further. Shalako, in votecounts (i skimmed all his posts for votes) has only voted for 2 people. Exlight and TIK. Both have been nothing more than /barns. The rest is just fence sitting, just like Bebo.
Atlseal, i hate your logic on this. Its just so bi-polar comapred to your d1 actions. This wagon is bad because LAL is bad, but your wagon was good because Lynch all slipups is a good policy? Exlights wagon is exactly the same substance and positioning of the current wagon, 1 person pushes is and the rest /barn on a "feeling". However!!!! i have to agree with you. I don't like the evidence despite a scummy feeling.
There you go with absolutes again. LAL is a rule of thumb. I think it's a horrible idea in this case as the lie would be made as town or scum, it should not count as evidence. In the same vein that lynch all <fill in reason here> as an unbreakable rule is a bad idea. This is one of those cases (at least I'm glad that you are acknowledging it).
<Bebo quotes>
This definitely needs an answer as it confuses me too. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Atlseal, i hate your logic on this. Its just so bi-polar comapred to your d1 actions. This wagon is bad because LAL is bad, but your wagon was good because Lynch all slipups is a good policy? Exlights wagon is exactly the same substance and positioning of the current wagon, 1 person pushes is and the rest /barn on a "feeling". However!!!! i have to agree with you. I don't like the evidence despite a scummy feeling.
I would like to point out something else that i researched tonight. I did this because i thought it was odd that Shalako wasn't willing to see Bebo go.
This quote was on Sept. 12th for reference.
Sept 16th bebo is #2 scum.
He is Number 2 scum because I didn't have a read on him. When I don't have a read on people they go higher up on my watch list.
This strikes me as odd, why would you want someone who wants to lynch Bebo to check in, when you could simply drop the hammer yourself?
Because I don't want to Hammer Bebo. You should get that. I want Krackshott to check in because hes been gone forever.
Jesus Christ, isn't this the same guy getting replaced in again?
This is pretty much how I feel.
Pure protection of Bebo at this point.
CAN ANYONE PRESENT A CASE ON BEBO I ask people to and they just ignore it.
So Shalako, why did you think Bebo was scummy/anti-town but refuse to accept hammering? You seemed so sure of Bebo's guilt til it came down to you having to hammer.
Well...I've mentioned it like ten times. Random=/= Scum. I'm afraid to hammer beacuse I'm reminded of Exlight and how his wagon just took off.
Another point of evidence that helps this interaction further. Shalako, in votecounts (i skimmed all his posts for votes) has only voted for 2 people. Exlight and TIK. Both have been nothing more than /barns. The rest is just fence sitting, just like Bebo.
No. Lies. Show me the quotes of where I simply said barn then voted. I've waited to make up my mind or see suspicious play each time.
What do you think of Bebo. If you think he's scum why haven't you hammered him?
Oh wait you unvoted. Why? Is it because the wagon stalled so you can hammer if need be?
I already answered that, I'm damn near sure TIK is town. A valid question would have been why didn't I vote Escorien. To that, it was pretty much a coin-flip. AE's responses to the vote haven't convinced me to move it.
Oh okay. I have Escorien as leaning town and TIK as leaning scum. That's why I was questioning it.
I'm disappointed in you guys. Nobody has presented a Pbpa of why Bebo is scum
He is Number 2 scum because I didn't have a read on him. When I don't have a read on people they go higher up on my watch list.
But your sure he's scum?
Because I don't want to Hammer Bebo. You should get that. I want Krackshott to check in because hes been gone forever.
I.E.
This is pretty much how I feel.
Stop deflecting. You specificly state that you want him to check in because he is in FAVOR of the bebo wagon.
CAN ANYONE PRESENT A CASE ON BEBO I ask people to and they just ignore it.
Well...I've mentioned it like ten times. Random=/= Scum. I'm afraid to hammer beacuse I'm reminded of Exlight and how his wagon just took off.
No-one really can other than a "feeling". Its the same feeling you had earlier in the week.
No. Lies. Show me the quotes of where I simply said barn then voted. I've waited to make up my mind or see suspicious play each time.
You may not say "/barn" but you certainly didn't add any insight into why you thought they were scum.
What do you think of Bebo. If you think he's scum why haven't you hammered him?
Oh wait you unvoted. Why? Is it because the wagon stalled so you can hammer if need be?
I unvoted Atlseal. I don't believe i ever had my vote on Bebo except right before i did my Atlseal PBPA. And yes, i feel he's more likely town than not. Hopefully whatever cop/vig role there is will get rid of him for us in day 3. And this wagon did anything BUT stall. It went 0 -5 instantly. Its actually good he's not been hammered.
But your sure he's scum?[QUOTE]
What? I don't think he is scum. If you read what I said I wasn't sure he was scum.[QUOTE]
Stop deflecting. You specificly state that you want him to check in because he is in FAVOR of the bebo wagon.
Not deflecting. I didn't state that I wanted him to check in because he was for the lynch only that I thought he was. Don't misinterpret my posts.
No-one really can other than a "feeling". Its the same feeling you had earlier in the week.
That's why I believe he's not the lynch for the day.
You may not say "/barn" but you certainly didn't add any insight into why you thought they were scum.
No. Go look back at my posts and stop misinterpreting me.
I unvoted Atlseal. I don't believe i ever had my vote on Bebo except right before i did my Atlseal PBPA. And yes, i feel he's more likely town than not. Hopefully whatever cop/vig role there is will get rid of him for us in day 3. And this wagon did anything
agreed.
BUT stall. It went 0 -5 instantly. Its actually good he's not been hammered.
Do you know what stall means? I'm talking about how he's been at L-1 for so long. I agree that it's good he hasn't been hammered. However I am very concerned that people don't have a legitimate reason to vote him.
Because I don't want to Hammer Bebo. You should get that. I want Krackshott to check in because hes been gone forever.
...
Well...I've mentioned it like ten times. Random=/= Scum. I'm afraid to hammer beacuse I'm reminded of Exlight and how his wagon just took off.
You see why I don't believe you?
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If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Shalako, seriously, just kill the bastard. Especially now since krackshott has requested replacement. The deadline is still 6 days away, yes, but there's no way we will ever agree to lynch anyone other than bebo.
I am almost positive he is scum now, and I believe Shalako is his scumbuddy.
To that, I'm sorry that I was away for so long. The phone I use to post has been acting up. It took about an hour to make each of the posts I made in Red Dwarf, and it wasn't without frustration.
News is continuing to get worse on the computer, so it is highly possible that I will end up having to replace out, but I am trying really hard to prevent that. I'm headed to a staffing agency after this, so hopefully I'll get a job soon. If that happens, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to post from there on breaks/lunch and such.
Posting to state I have had a migraine, sore throat, strained eye, and all that kind of jazz and might not be able to post for a day or two. We are sorry for the inconvenience.
Shalako, seriously, just kill the bastard. Especially now since krackshott has requested replacement. The deadline is still 6 days away, yes, but there's no way we will ever agree to lynch anyone other than bebo.
I am almost positive he is scum now, and I believe Shalako is his scumbuddy.
To that, I'm sorry that I was away for so long. The phone I use to post has been acting up. It took about an hour to make each of the posts I made in Red Dwarf, and it wasn't without frustration.
News is continuing to get worse on the computer, so it is highly possible that I will end up having to replace out, but I am trying really hard to prevent that. I'm headed to a staffing agency after this, so hopefully I'll get a job soon. If that happens, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to post from there on breaks/lunch and such.
Day Three Final Vote Count
22bebo (6): Archmage Eternal, Escorien, Ragnarokio, The Ice King, MandersHex, Shalako Archmage Eternal (1): atlseal
Not Voting (3): 22bebo, Arcadic, KrackShott
After the fast pace of the first Day of deliberations, the second seemed to drag on forever. Eventually, Archmage Eternal and Escorien cornered 22bebo at the edge of a cliff.
"Thought you'd get away with your 'random' act?"
~ Archmage Eternal
"Think again."
~ Escorien
"Wait, you have the wrong...braaains!"
~ 22bebo
In an instant, the others had gathered around 22bebo.
"What was that?"
~ Ragnarokio
"He definitely said, 'Brains!' He must be one of them!"
~ The Ice King
"No! Well, yes, I am Bog Raiders, but I didn't kill any...braaains!"
~ 22bebo
"Liar! You tell us one thing then expect us to believe another? Time to die."
~ MandersHex
"What? You have to believe me, I'm telling the...braaains!"
~ 22bebo
"I have a bad feeling about this, but we can't go on forever dragging our feet. The sun's about to set. Time to take a leap of faith."
~ Shalako
With those words, Shalako stepped forward and pushed 22bebo off the edge of the cliff. By the time the remaining nine made their way to the rocky shore below, the putrid flesh had all but sloughed off of 22bebo's reanimated corpse. All could see that dark magic had animated him, making him selfish and Corrupt, but there were no weapons on his body and no indication that he was responsible for the murders. With resignation in your hearts, you disbanded for the Night, hoping against hope that the dawn would come without further bloodshed.
22bebo has been lynched. He was Bog Raiders, Town Vanilla. Night Three will end no later than 11:59PM EST, Sunday September 26th.
Good luck to everyone attending a Scars of Mirrodin Prerelease event this weekend.
Also, a replacement is still needed for KrackShott. All interested parties may send a PM.
I'm assuming I can't replace Krack. *Sigh* Oh well, good game all, and, in the words of our late Muffin Man, Go Town! BRAAAIINNNNNSSSSS!!!!! Time to find another game . . .
I'm assuming I can't replace Krack. *Sigh* Oh well, good game all, and, in the words of our late Muffin Man, Go Town! BRAAAIINNNNNSSSSS!!!!! Time to find another game . . .
In the event that no replacement can be found before the end of Night, you would be allowed to replace KrackShott. If this were to occur, I would publicly post your role PM to even the playing field. I will only modkill KrackShott as a last resort.
If you wish to discuss this matter further, please use PMs. After all, you are currently dead and it is still Night.
You awake to thunderous racket, something that can only be described as the sound of twisting metal and splintering wood. You rush outside and find that the others are already awake, nervously searching for the source of the noise. When the group of you finally spies what used to be Arcadic in a stable on the edge of camp, you understand what had happened. What used to be some kind of war machine was Shattered to pieces, likely by a warped hammer lying next to the stable's anvil. One of you makes a joke about Arcadic being a Brittle Effigy, but no one laughs. With a feeling of increasing dread, you look at each other, wondering who could have the heart to kill so ruthlessly. Time is running out.
Arcadic has been killed. He was Juggernaut, Town Vanilla.
Pending his approval, 22bebo replaces KrackShott.
It is now Day Three.
With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch.
In other news, I have a corneal ulceration in my left eye and it kinda sucks. I'm still A-OK to play, however.
Because I know that someone will bring this up,my paranoia-dar is ringing anywhere and everywhere that I'm in danger of being the lynch today, courtesy of a nice pre-night highlight from Atlseal. I'd be more than willing to claim at this point
But here's something I don't get about Atlseal right now- for someone who tried to start a wagon on Arcadic, failed, and now he's dead, while Atlseal is still standing, and each were out for each other's throats before Bebo's lynch, something seems to be off here. I'm going to take some time to reread him, and give a PBPA for the first time and see how it goes, but for now...
GoS (Glare of Suspicion) Atlseal
Now, the town is in lynch or lose, with 5 town and 3 scum, so if I read up right the town shouldn't vote until a lynch can be decided, right?
In other news, I have a corneal ulceration in my left eye and it kinda sucks. I'm still A-OK to play, however.
Because I know that someone will bring this up,my paranoia-dar is ringing anywhere and everywhere that I'm in danger of being the lynch today, courtesy of a nice pre-night highlight from Atlseal. I'd be more than willing to claim at this point
But here's something I don't get about Atlseal right now- for someone who tried to start a wagon on Arcadic, failed, and now he's dead, while Atlseal is still standing, and each were out for each other's throats before Bebo's lynch, something seems to be off here. I'm going to take some time to reread him, and give a PBPA for the first time and see how it goes, but for now...
GoS (Glare of Suspicion) Atlseal
Now, the town is in lynch or lose, with 5 town and 3 scum, so if I read up right the town shouldn't vote until a lynch can be decided, right?
☺☺☺☺ i'm not sober my bad. When did Altseal highlight you? I don't remember that if you mind showing me the posts.
In other news, I have a corneal ulceration in my left eye and it kinda sucks. I'm still A-OK to play, however.
Because I know that someone will bring this up,my paranoia-dar is ringing anywhere and everywhere that I'm in danger of being the lynch today, courtesy of a nice pre-night highlight from Atlseal. I'd be more than willing to claim at this point
But here's something I don't get about Atlseal right now- for someone who tried to start a wagon on Arcadic, failed, and now he's dead, while Atlseal is still standing, and each were out for each other's throats before Bebo's lynch, something seems to be off here. I'm going to take some time to reread him, and give a PBPA for the first time and see how it goes, but for now...
GoS (Glare of Suspicion) Atlseal
Now, the town is in lynch or lose, with 5 town and 3 scum, so if I read up right the town shouldn't vote until a lynch can be decided, right?
Found them. It's not even close to Atlseal highlighting you. He says that It's a coin flip between you and A.E. for both being both of the wagons.
Why were you on the bebo wagon?
Why are you so concerned about your image?
Why do you bring up claiming when you don't even have a vote on you?
Why does it matter that Arcadic was fighting with Atlseal? He was also fighting with me remember.
A coin flip still bothers the hell out of me at this point in the game- this is LoL, the town's final chance. The town can't afford to miss, because if we do, it's over.
I voted Bebo because of all the screwups and slips that he made that I read as scum tells. Now we know that I among others was wrong and he was just a confused townie in his first game and that I need more practice at picking out tells.
It's not so much as a concern for my own image so much as a desire to win.
Atlseal pointed at me as a possibility, and I want to put myself under the rays of scrutiny and toss my cards onto the table to the best of my ability that way a scum can be lynched rather than another townie.
Honestly, if that's your case, Arcadic, I don't have much to worry about.
This, in combination with Arcadic's current state of death, is my starting point. It's strange and reads peculiarly, and that's why I'm electing to do a PBPA to see if I can derive something new.
If we are running a standard basic setup, we should still have a Cop alive and a massclaim might be beneficial, but I'm unsure. As it stands, I've already made it clear that I'm willing to claim and would as a result claim first in a massclaim.
A coin flip still bothers the hell out of me at this point in the game- this is LoL, the town's final chance. The town can't afford to miss, because if we do, it's over.
Well I guess its a good thing it's not just up to Atlseal
I voted Bebo because of all the screwups and slips that he made that I read as scum tells. Now we know that I among others was wrong and he was just a confused townie in his first game and that I need more practice at picking out tells.
Okay.
It's not so much as a concern for my own image so much as a desire to win.
By not being the lynch today got it.
Atlseal pointed at me as a possibility, and I want to put myself under the rays of scrutiny and toss my cards onto the table to the best of my ability that way a scum can be lynched rather than another townie.
I've already done a pbpa of you if someone else wants to that would be great.
This, in combination with Arcadic's current state of death, is my starting point. It's strange and reads peculiarly, and that's why I'm electing to do a PBPA to see if I can derive something new.
How does this differ from my interactions with Arcadic? I'm confused as to why Atlseal sticks out to you and I don't when we both had similar interactions with Arcadic. Is it just because of that one post?
If we are running a standard basic setup, we should still have a Cop alive and a massclaim might be beneficial, but I'm unsure. As it stands, I've already made it clear that I'm willing to claim and would as a result claim first in a massclaim.
Okay we have our order in event of a massclaim then. Question for everyone: Is it standard to Mass Claim at L.O.L? Should non-outed P.R.s stay hidden? Should the cop claim only if one of the people he's cleared is about to be lynched?
But here's something I don't get about Atlseal right now- for someone who tried to start a wagon on Arcadic, failed, and now he's dead, while Atlseal is still standing, and each were out for each other's throats before Bebo's lynch, something seems to be off here. I'm going to take some time to reread him, and give a PBPA for the first time and see how it goes, but for now...
That's a BS reason if I ever saw one. By that same logic, TIK should be scum because TMM was killed N1. I'm really liking you as one of the three right now.
Now, the town is in lynch or lose, with 5 town and 3 scum, so if I read up right the town shouldn't vote until a lynch can be decided, right?
A coin flip still bothers the hell out of me at this point in the game- this is LoL, the town's final chance. The town can't afford to miss, because if we do, it's over.[quote]
That's an ... interesting phrasing. I didn't say it was a coin flip as to one or the other of you being scum. There's the distinct possibility of both of you being scum.
[quote]I voted Bebo because of all the screwups and slips that he made that I read as scum tells. Now we know that I among others was wrong and he was just a confused townie in his first game and that I need more practice at picking out tells.
And yet, you never tried building a case when I requested one. In fact, the only player that did so was Ragnarokio. I also love the underlined bit. It's trying to spread the blame so as to lessen your existance on the wagon.
This, in combination with Arcadic's current state of death, is my starting point. It's strange and reads peculiarly, and that's why I'm electing to do a PBPA to see if I can derive something new.
So ... let me get this straight. You think I might be scum because of Arcadic's case? The horrible case that garneshed all of his one vote?
If we are running a standard basic setup, we should still have a Cop alive and a massclaim might be beneficial, but I'm unsure. As it stands, I've already made it clear that I'm willing to claim and would as a result claim first in a massclaim.
I am completely in favor of a massclaim. In fact, I'd recommend we do the each player that claims picks the next player to claim strategy.
-----------------------------------
For those of you playing at home, the players that were on both ExLight and bebo's wagons are:
- Archmage Eternal
- Escorien
- Shalako
Now, I don't think it would be as simple as all three of those players being scum, but I'd wager at least one, and probably two, of them are.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're town and I'm mafia, you've already lost. You just don't know it yet.
Well then, it appears we are in LyLo, so yes, no one vote and we should perform a mass-claim. However, Shalako should not be going first as I'm still suspicious of him.
I'm fine with Escorien starting off and with each person choosing the next person to go. Keep in mind, when you choose your person, that we want the more questionable people to claim earlier than any who seem confirmed.
In a mass claim, every role should claim, including cop and if we have a vig. Claims should include Role Name, Role Title, and a summarization of the flavor.
PLEASE CLEAR THIS WITH AI BEFORE POSTING YOUR CLAIM TO AVOID MODKILLS.
For now, we should wait for more people to speak up.
Oh, and I was RBd again. Apparently the scum have decided I have a power role. Go figure.
He's made too many mistakes here and there that are scummish. His lie isn't the main motive to lynch him; it's one of many little things that snowballed into his case along the way.
I'm not denying his wagon moved with amazing speed- it bothers me as well to some degree and those players should be looked into, including myself if needed. I had a HoS on Bebo before my vote- his continued play changed that into a vote, so it's not exactly that I was willing to vote him given more scum slips and tells- which he gave.
@Bebo: Lynch or lose is a game state in which after the lynch for that day, if scum wasn't nailed via the town's lynch, the scum brings the town total equal to the scum total via their NK and will win. Generally, a 12 player game has 3 scum, IIRC.
@TIK: So, if I'm town, like I claim, then town's essentially screwed since they got the doc? (Unless there's a vig.) I'm only asking this to clarify, not trying to imply anything with it.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
Real quick for tonight. The major part was his fishing. You haven't had a problem with my vote up until now? Your vote on me does not bother me, what am I like the 3rd or 4th person you've laid a vote on today? It's an empty vote. Your mad that other people are now voting bebo so you vote me? You've sat back lately and let this wagon get this far and now really push to halt it. In fact you jump off your vote of Arcadic(which you were dead set on and haven't pushed lately) to place it on me. Nothing like trying to stall out the day to get to the deadline.
This is funny. See I've mentioned his scummy-ness throughtout. So tell me, why would you say "no he isn't"?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
1) That's pretty blatant fear-mongering right there. We have over a week left until the deadline. That's plenty of time.
2) I didn't have a problem with your vote until this wagon went from 0-60 so fast. This drew all my attention to those on the wagon. You were one of the three that are on this and ExLight's.
3) I'm not mad other people are voting bebo, where did you get that idea?
4) Sit back? When I left, the wagon had 2 votes, I come back and he's at L-1? Big difference there bub.
Yeah, a here/there this is scummy. I want to see what you think your strongest points against him are.
I stand by Manders as being town.
So you think there is more then an off chance Bebo is town?
So I take it if you flip scum all the scum were on Bebos wagon. This also strikes me as WIFOM.
The burden of proof is on you guys. Show me where Bebos play differs from random.
I want everyone voting Bebo to present a case for why he is scum not just "he is ob scum" There has not been a case provided to my satisfaction. One question here; why do you vote A.E. here and not Ice King? I find it more likely he is scum compared to A.E. You have the same amount of evidence to vote both.(from the bandwagons)
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Archmage Eternal (1): atlseal
atlseal (1): Arcadic
Not Voting (3): 22bebo, KrackShott, Shalako
With 10 alive, it's 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline: If a lynch does not occur by 11:59PM EST, Tuesday September 28th, the Day will end with No Lynch.
I already answered that, I'm damn near sure TIK is town. A valid question would have been why didn't I vote Escorien. To that, it was pretty much a coin-flip. AE's responses to the vote haven't convinced me to move it.
Didn't I go over this with shalako? How about reading the thread? I can't understand how you get such a strong town vibe from the scummiest person in here. If its not a strong town vibe I just assumed it was with this halting of the wagon.
Do you like that vote he put down? Ice you vote barning Rag. Did you mean you thought you were voting him too? I don't recall you saying much about bebo, I'll have to go back and look.
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Did you miss the part where I said that I searched through the whole thread and failed to find it? Your answer was just being unhelpful. I'm not going to go back and search the whole thread a second time to look for some post. I'd be willing to go back and search if you specified a general time frame like 'end of day 1'.
I must have missed where I said that I got a strong town vibe from bebo. The behavior of his wagon was all the evidence I need to oppose it. Without directly referencing ongoing games, even if a player is playing weird/bad, you can tell a lot by the way their wagon behaves and this wagon is all kinds of wrong.
No, I don't like it, but that doesn't change the fact that I'm damn near sure he's town.
You talk of the wagon and how fast it grew but you vote me. The one player that has been on it for awhile. Not the ones that piled on or the ones that gave no reason. That does not add up. Plus you say "obv. scum" won't do it. But isn't that what your doing with me? "Look, he is on both wagons. Scum." Contradiction?
They hate us cause they ain't us.
Actually, bad wagon = everyone suspect
What?
For someone not taking my vote seriously, you seem to be taking my vote seriously.
I would like to point out something else that i researched tonight. I did this because i thought it was odd that Shalako wasn't willing to see Bebo go.
This quote was on Sept. 12th for reference.
Sept 16th bebo is #2 scum.
Sept 19th.
This strikes me as odd, why would you want someone who wants to lynch Bebo to check in, when you could simply drop the hammer yourself?
Pure protection of Bebo at this point.
So Shalako, why did you think Bebo was scummy/anti-town but refuse to accept hammering? You seemed so sure of Bebo's guilt til it came down to you having to hammer.
Another point of evidence that helps this interaction further. Shalako, in votecounts (i skimmed all his posts for votes) has only voted for 2 people. Exlight and TIK. Both have been nothing more than /barns. The rest is just fence sitting, just like Bebo.
unvote
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
There you go with absolutes again. LAL is a rule of thumb. I think it's a horrible idea in this case as the lie would be made as town or scum, it should not count as evidence. In the same vein that lynch all <fill in reason here> as an unbreakable rule is a bad idea. This is one of those cases (at least I'm glad that you are acknowledging it).
This definitely needs an answer as it confuses me too. Thank you for bringing that to my attention.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Yeah, sorry - my bad. Typo.
The GJ way path to no lynching:
He is Number 2 scum because I didn't have a read on him. When I don't have a read on people they go higher up on my watch list.
Because I don't want to Hammer Bebo. You should get that. I want Krackshott to check in because hes been gone forever.
I.E.
This is pretty much how I feel.
CAN ANYONE PRESENT A CASE ON BEBO I ask people to and they just ignore it.
Well...I've mentioned it like ten times. Random=/= Scum. I'm afraid to hammer beacuse I'm reminded of Exlight and how his wagon just took off.
No. Lies. Show me the quotes of where I simply said barn then voted. I've waited to make up my mind or see suspicious play each time.
What do you think of Bebo. If you think he's scum why haven't you hammered him?
Oh wait you unvoted. Why? Is it because the wagon stalled so you can hammer if need be?
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Oh okay. I have Escorien as leaning town and TIK as leaning scum. That's why I was questioning it.
I'm disappointed in you guys. Nobody has presented a Pbpa of why Bebo is scum
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
But your sure he's scum?
Stop deflecting. You specificly state that you want him to check in because he is in FAVOR of the bebo wagon.
No-one really can other than a "feeling". Its the same feeling you had earlier in the week.
You may not say "/barn" but you certainly didn't add any insight into why you thought they were scum.
I unvoted Atlseal. I don't believe i ever had my vote on Bebo except right before i did my Atlseal PBPA. And yes, i feel he's more likely town than not. Hopefully whatever cop/vig role there is will get rid of him for us in day 3. And this wagon did anything BUT stall. It went 0 -5 instantly. Its actually good he's not been hammered.
My wife was on MTV with this video.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BUutIZg2EpU
Not deflecting. I didn't state that I wanted him to check in because he was for the lynch only that I thought he was. Don't misinterpret my posts.
That's why I believe he's not the lynch for the day.
No. Go look back at my posts and stop misinterpreting me.
agreed.
Do you know what stall means? I'm talking about how he's been at L-1 for so long. I agree that it's good he hasn't been hammered. However I am very concerned that people don't have a legitimate reason to vote him.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
You see why I don't believe you?
what? Please clarify.
What don't you believe me about?
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Anyone interested in replacing in, please send a PM.
Shalako, seriously, just kill the bastard. Especially now since krackshott has requested replacement. The deadline is still 6 days away, yes, but there's no way we will ever agree to lynch anyone other than bebo.
I am almost positive he is scum now, and I believe Shalako is his scumbuddy.
To that, I'm sorry that I was away for so long. The phone I use to post has been acting up. It took about an hour to make each of the posts I made in Red Dwarf, and it wasn't without frustration.
News is continuing to get worse on the computer, so it is highly possible that I will end up having to replace out, but I am trying really hard to prevent that. I'm headed to a staffing agency after this, so hopefully I'll get a job soon. If that happens, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to post from there on breaks/lunch and such.
Thank you for your continued patience.
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Fine
Vote Bebo22
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Sense all the more experienced players say he's scum I'll follow the will of the majority.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
22bebo (6): Archmage Eternal, Escorien, Ragnarokio, The Ice King, MandersHex, Shalako
Archmage Eternal (1): atlseal
Not Voting (3): 22bebo, Arcadic, KrackShott
After the fast pace of the first Day of deliberations, the second seemed to drag on forever. Eventually, Archmage Eternal and Escorien cornered 22bebo at the edge of a cliff.
~ Archmage Eternal
"Think again."
~ Escorien
"Wait, you have the wrong...braaains!"
~ 22bebo
"What was that?"
~ Ragnarokio
"He definitely said, 'Brains!' He must be one of them!"
~ The Ice King
"No! Well, yes, I am Bog Raiders, but I didn't kill any...braaains!"
~ 22bebo
"Liar! You tell us one thing then expect us to believe another? Time to die."
~ MandersHex
"What? You have to believe me, I'm telling the...braaains!"
~ 22bebo
"I have a bad feeling about this, but we can't go on forever dragging our feet. The sun's about to set. Time to take a leap of faith."
~ Shalako
22bebo has been lynched. He was Bog Raiders, Town Vanilla.
Night Three will end no later than 11:59PM EST, Sunday September 26th.
Good luck to everyone attending a Scars of Mirrodin Prerelease event this weekend.
Also, a replacement is still needed for KrackShott. All interested parties may send a PM.
In the event that no replacement can be found before the end of Night, you would be allowed to replace KrackShott. If this were to occur, I would publicly post your role PM to even the playing field. I will only modkill KrackShott as a last resort.
If you wish to discuss this matter further, please use PMs. After all, you are currently dead and it is still Night.
Arcadic has been killed. He was Juggernaut, Town Vanilla.
Pending his approval, 22bebo replaces KrackShott.
It is now Day Three.
With 8 alive, it's 5 votes to lynch.
Waiting on a reply from Arcadic and Atlseal
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
In other news, I have a corneal ulceration in my left eye and it kinda sucks. I'm still A-OK to play, however.
Because I know that someone will bring this up,my paranoia-dar is ringing anywhere and everywhere that I'm in danger of being the lynch today, courtesy of a nice pre-night highlight from Atlseal. I'd be more than willing to claim at this point
But here's something I don't get about Atlseal right now- for someone who tried to start a wagon on Arcadic, failed, and now he's dead, while Atlseal is still standing, and each were out for each other's throats before Bebo's lynch, something seems to be off here. I'm going to take some time to reread him, and give a PBPA for the first time and see how it goes, but for now...
GoS (Glare of Suspicion) Atlseal
Now, the town is in lynch or lose, with 5 town and 3 scum, so if I read up right the town shouldn't vote until a lynch can be decided, right?
☺☺☺☺ i'm not sober my bad. When did Altseal highlight you? I don't remember that if you mind showing me the posts.
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
Found them. It's not even close to Atlseal highlighting you. He says that It's a coin flip between you and A.E. for both being both of the wagons.
Why were you on the bebo wagon?
Why are you so concerned about your image?
Why do you bring up claiming when you don't even have a vote on you?
Why does it matter that Arcadic was fighting with Atlseal? He was also fighting with me remember.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Is now the right time to mass-claim since we are a LoL? I haven't gotten to this point in my other game.
In the event of a mass-claim I reserve the right to go last
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
I voted Bebo because of all the screwups and slips that he made that I read as scum tells. Now we know that I among others was wrong and he was just a confused townie in his first game and that I need more practice at picking out tells.
It's not so much as a concern for my own image so much as a desire to win.
Atlseal pointed at me as a possibility, and I want to put myself under the rays of scrutiny and toss my cards onto the table to the best of my ability that way a scum can be lynched rather than another townie.
This, in combination with Arcadic's current state of death, is my starting point. It's strange and reads peculiarly, and that's why I'm electing to do a PBPA to see if I can derive something new.
If we are running a standard basic setup, we should still have a Cop alive and a massclaim might be beneficial, but I'm unsure. As it stands, I've already made it clear that I'm willing to claim and would as a result claim first in a massclaim.
Well I guess its a good thing it's not just up to Atlseal
Okay.
By not being the lynch today got it.
I've already done a pbpa of you if someone else wants to that would be great.
How does this differ from my interactions with Arcadic? I'm confused as to why Atlseal sticks out to you and I don't when we both had similar interactions with Arcadic. Is it just because of that one post?
Okay we have our order in event of a massclaim then.
Question for everyone: Is it standard to Mass Claim at L.O.L? Should non-outed P.R.s stay hidden? Should the cop claim only if one of the people he's cleared is about to be lynched?
[Mafia Stats] Mafia MVP: 1/3 Basic #29,Co-[CCMV]
That's a BS reason if I ever saw one. By that same logic, TIK should be scum because TMM was killed N1. I'm really liking you as one of the three right now.
Exactamundo.
And yet, you never tried building a case when I requested one. In fact, the only player that did so was Ragnarokio. I also love the underlined bit. It's trying to spread the blame so as to lessen your existance on the wagon.
So ... let me get this straight. You think I might be scum because of Arcadic's case? The horrible case that garneshed all of his one vote?
I am completely in favor of a massclaim. In fact, I'd recommend we do the each player that claims picks the next player to claim strategy.
-----------------------------------
For those of you playing at home, the players that were on both ExLight and bebo's wagons are:
- Archmage Eternal
- Escorien
- Shalako
Now, I don't think it would be as simple as all three of those players being scum, but I'd wager at least one, and probably two, of them are.
I'm fine with Escorien starting off and with each person choosing the next person to go. Keep in mind, when you choose your person, that we want the more questionable people to claim earlier than any who seem confirmed.
In a mass claim, every role should claim, including cop and if we have a vig. Claims should include Role Name, Role Title, and a summarization of the flavor.
PLEASE CLEAR THIS WITH AI BEFORE POSTING YOUR CLAIM TO AVOID MODKILLS.
For now, we should wait for more people to speak up.
Oh, and I was RBd again. Apparently the scum have decided I have a power role. Go figure.
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