After commenting a lot on other Tibor and Lumia decks, I felt that I needed to finally post my version of the deck. I play a more control version of Tibor and Lumia, relying on counters with flavor and fun cards like Blatant Thievery.
Has a lot of your standard win combos involving blue and red (Turnabout+Reiterate) and a lot of card draw in order to hit the gas in order to win. Or at the vary least, it can do things like Spelljack, Blatant Thievery, or Gather Specimens to take someone else's big play and make it mine
All in all, this is an incredibly fun, responsive, deck to play.
I don't like Mindwrack Liege. The pump is pretty negligable and you don't play enough creatures to make his ability worthwhile. I know he can be good dropping beats EOT but I want more mileage out of my 6 mana creatures than that. I'd never play him over a Hoard-Smelter Dragon, for instance.
What's Cerebral Vortex for? If it's just to hit T+L's activation, it's too weak. If you were playing with Teferi's Puzzle Box or Time Spiral or something, it would be a different story obviously. (EDIT: I do see Time Reversal in there. Still, it's just one card you'll have to draw into after you cast the Time Reversal so your odds of hitting that small Jackpot are pretty slim). I feel the same way about Electrolyze- good as a U/R spell but weak in the format otherwise. Prophetic Bolt has a bit more punch for the extra mana and you'll kill a good chunk of generals with 4 damage instead of 2.
Seems like you're not trying to win with T+L as much as you are with infinites. I see no less than three infinte combos in here. With Gamble, Fabricate and Mystical Tutor I have to imagine it's not too hard to assemble the machine. Living long enough to get the mana you need to pull off the expensive two looks like it would be tough but that's the challenge we take on I guess
Grixis Panorama is not very good because you have to pay to search for the land. Terramorphic Expanse is better most all of the time if you're looking for more fixing.
No Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind? You're packing Mind over Matter and Basilisk Collar, so I'll assume you just forgot :). He's yet another creature that should always make the cut over Mindwrack Liege.
Stuff I'd add would be Hinder and Coalition Relic. These are auto-includes in Izzet decks. Also, you need more sweepers. Knowledge Exploitation is one and Evacuate is another, but you have so few creatures you could really benefit from an All is Dust, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone or even an Inferno.
Mindwrack Liege: I keep him simply because most of my creatures are above 4 mana, so I can get them in instant speed and cheaper is nice, but you're right about him being cuttable, I am considering replacing him with Hellkite Charger to benefit from Sword of Feast and Famine
Cerebral Vortex: This is kinda a sneaky play for my meta. We have a lot of token decks or at least major creature ramp where people play Decree of Pain to clean up, or in general have the ability to draw 20+ cards a turn sometimes. It's nice to slap them with Vortex in these cases, thus it has a spot.
Electrolyze: This card is actually pretty solid, 2 damage, draw card, T+L proc, for 3 mana? Sign me up!
T+L and Combos: My major designs for my decks is to not revolve the deck entirely on my general. That being said, T+L play a MASSIVE roll in this deck, but when people Bant Charm them away, I want to still be able to win. Thus I carry some infinite combos in the deck. (mostly the only one to ever go off is Turnabout + Reiterate for infinite mana and win)
Grixis Panorama: Yah, that should be changed, kinda a silly play on my part.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: I hate Niv. When anyone EVER puts him into play, they are INSTANTLY targeted. Even though I can abuse him already, I made my deck T+L for a reason =/
And finally, I took out Coalition Relic simply because my ramp is already pretty decent. Bribery usually nets me a primeval from someone and I hit my other artifact ramps often. My deck doesn't require high amounts of mana for success, so I figured it was overkill. I also cut All is Dust because after some games, it was a dead draw because I had control of the board already. It's in my "sideboard", so it could come back someday if needed.
Mystic Decree and Gravity Sphere: issue: my creatures can get hit too, which makes most of my tibor and lumia abuse not particularly useful.
Yeah I have been struggling with what to play myself Darklich- Wonder or Mystic Decree. You really shouldn't play both because they're only good in a specific order, and statistically that's just not likely in the format. The only card that can tutor for either that isn't Planar Portal is Gamble, which is great for Wonder but not so much for Mystic Decree and Gravity Sphere.
The other thing Decree and Sphere also have against them is that most U/R beaters have flying as their form of evasion. So it's taking away a significant color advantage.
I really like the idea of hitting flyers with T+L, but I have to make sure they have enough ways to fly or else they're like a bad Jaya Ballard. In this kind of deck, it means you've either got to play extra :symu::symr: spells to make sure you save T+L (which degrade in quality pretty rapidly after the first 7+ good ones) or you've got to play bad cards like Flight Spellbomb and Levitation. It's definitely a pickle. I'm taking the "high" road and going with just Wonder for now and using the U/R control magic and counterspell suite to take care of troublesome fliers but I'm sure I'll try the other way eventually, especially if I can get a hold of a cheap Gravity Sphere (why is that a $10 card??).
I would only run the anti-flier effects if you were planning on using Charisma and/or Basilisk Collar to really make the most of hitting all creatures. (Although Mystic Decree is pretty funny with Stormtide Leviathan in a combo/control deck)
Also keep in mind that you don't necessarily need to run the sub-par UR spells, as you can cast a blue spell followed by a red one. (Of course you knew that =p) Any kind of decent blue cantrip (Such as Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain) will give your dudes that matter flying. I would definitely skip Levitation and Flight Spellbomb!
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I never really have much of an issue against fliers due to the fact that T+L can easily give flying to my creatures, plus I can counter or take a flier from someone else to justify not needing to use them.
Like I said, this is more of a control deck than a beat deck. I usually take other people's combo pieces/big threat spells and make them my own.
Long-Term Plans is ok if you ask me. It seems to really only make itself worth it if you have Sensei's Divining Top in play, which doesn't always happen.
And yah, I like Wonder as my method to give all my creatures flying because getting it to the yard is pretty easy to accomplish in this deck, or I just beat into people for 2 a lot (it's always fun to throw on the swords onto wonder to get the procs, because no one really wants to block it lol)
(Input appreciated, seriously!)
1 Tibor and Lumia
Creatures - 13
1 Arcanis the Omnipotent
1 Consecrated Sphinx
1 Draining Whelk
1 Gilded Drake
1 Goblin Welder
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Hellkite Charger
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mulldrifter
1 Nucklavee
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Trinket Mage
1 Wonder
Instants - 13
1 Capsize
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Comet Storm
1 Commandeer
1 Electrolyze
1 Evacuation
1 Gather Specimens
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Prophetic Bolt
1 Reiterate
1 Reverberate
1 Swerve
1 Turnabout
1 Cryptic Command
1 Double Negative
1 Pact of Negation
1 Spelljack
1 Stifle
Sorceries - 11
1 Beacon of Tomorrows
1 Blatant Thievery
1 Bribery
1 Fabricate
1 Gamble
1 Insurrection
1 Invoke the Firemind
1 Knowledge Exploitation
1 Recurring Insight
1 Rite of Replication
1 Time Reversal
Enchantments - 5
1 Charisma
1 Mind Over Matter
1 Quest for Ancient Secrets
1 Rhystic Study
1 Treachery
Artifacts - 10
1 Crystal Shard
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Planar Portal
1 Predator, Flagship
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Vedalken Orrery
1 Gilded Lotus
1 Sol Ring
1 Thran Dynamo
Equipment - 6
1 Basilisk Collar
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Sword of Feast and Famine
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Kaldra
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
Lands - 36
1 Academy Ruins
1 Cascade Bluffs
1 Great Furnace
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Tolaria West
17 Island
9 Mountain
Has a lot of your standard win combos involving blue and red (Turnabout+Reiterate) and a lot of card draw in order to hit the gas in order to win. Or at the vary least, it can do things like Spelljack, Blatant Thievery, or Gather Specimens to take someone else's big play and make it mine
All in all, this is an incredibly fun, responsive, deck to play.
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I don't like Mindwrack Liege. The pump is pretty negligable and you don't play enough creatures to make his ability worthwhile. I know he can be good dropping beats EOT but I want more mileage out of my 6 mana creatures than that. I'd never play him over a Hoard-Smelter Dragon, for instance.
What's Cerebral Vortex for? If it's just to hit T+L's activation, it's too weak. If you were playing with Teferi's Puzzle Box or Time Spiral or something, it would be a different story obviously. (EDIT: I do see Time Reversal in there. Still, it's just one card you'll have to draw into after you cast the Time Reversal so your odds of hitting that small Jackpot are pretty slim). I feel the same way about Electrolyze- good as a U/R spell but weak in the format otherwise. Prophetic Bolt has a bit more punch for the extra mana and you'll kill a good chunk of generals with 4 damage instead of 2.
Seems like you're not trying to win with T+L as much as you are with infinites. I see no less than three infinte combos in here. With Gamble, Fabricate and Mystical Tutor I have to imagine it's not too hard to assemble the machine. Living long enough to get the mana you need to pull off the expensive two looks like it would be tough but that's the challenge we take on I guess
Grixis Panorama is not very good because you have to pay to search for the land. Terramorphic Expanse is better most all of the time if you're looking for more fixing.
No Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind? You're packing Mind over Matter and Basilisk Collar, so I'll assume you just forgot :). He's yet another creature that should always make the cut over Mindwrack Liege.
Stuff I'd add would be Hinder and Coalition Relic. These are auto-includes in Izzet decks. Also, you need more sweepers. Knowledge Exploitation is one and Evacuate is another, but you have so few creatures you could really benefit from an All is Dust, Nevinyrral's Disk, Oblivion Stone or even an Inferno.
Have fun and good luck in the name of science!
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Ok, let's break down my responses in parts.
Mindwrack Liege: I keep him simply because most of my creatures are above 4 mana, so I can get them in instant speed and cheaper is nice, but you're right about him being cuttable, I am considering replacing him with Hellkite Charger to benefit from Sword of Feast and Famine
Cerebral Vortex: This is kinda a sneaky play for my meta. We have a lot of token decks or at least major creature ramp where people play Decree of Pain to clean up, or in general have the ability to draw 20+ cards a turn sometimes. It's nice to slap them with Vortex in these cases, thus it has a spot.
Electrolyze: This card is actually pretty solid, 2 damage, draw card, T+L proc, for 3 mana? Sign me up!
T+L and Combos: My major designs for my decks is to not revolve the deck entirely on my general. That being said, T+L play a MASSIVE roll in this deck, but when people Bant Charm them away, I want to still be able to win. Thus I carry some infinite combos in the deck. (mostly the only one to ever go off is Turnabout + Reiterate for infinite mana and win)
Grixis Panorama: Yah, that should be changed, kinda a silly play on my part.
Niv-Mizzet, the Firemind: I hate Niv. When anyone EVER puts him into play, they are INSTANTLY targeted. Even though I can abuse him already, I made my deck T+L for a reason =/
And finally, I took out Coalition Relic simply because my ramp is already pretty decent. Bribery usually nets me a primeval from someone and I hit my other artifact ramps often. My deck doesn't require high amounts of mana for success, so I figured it was overkill. I also cut All is Dust because after some games, it was a dead draw because I had control of the board already. It's in my "sideboard", so it could come back someday if needed.
Mystic Decree and Gravity Sphere: issue: my creatures can get hit too, which makes most of my tibor and lumia abuse not particularly useful.
More comments = awesome
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar
Not if you give them flying with T&L, or drop a Wonder in your GY after the Sphere/Decree are in play. =D
The other thing Decree and Sphere also have against them is that most U/R beaters have flying as their form of evasion. So it's taking away a significant color advantage.
I really like the idea of hitting flyers with T+L, but I have to make sure they have enough ways to fly or else they're like a bad Jaya Ballard. In this kind of deck, it means you've either got to play extra :symu::symr: spells to make sure you save T+L (which degrade in quality pretty rapidly after the first 7+ good ones) or you've got to play bad cards like Flight Spellbomb and Levitation. It's definitely a pickle. I'm taking the "high" road and going with just Wonder for now and using the U/R control magic and counterspell suite to take care of troublesome fliers but I'm sure I'll try the other way eventually, especially if I can get a hold of a cheap Gravity Sphere (why is that a $10 card??).
:symu::symr: Melek WheelStorm
:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
You could also use Long-Term Plans to tutor up both, it's pretty good. In a pinch you can also use Mystical Tutor or Merchant Scroll to get the plans, and Sensei's Divining Top to draw the card right away.
I would only run the anti-flier effects if you were planning on using Charisma and/or Basilisk Collar to really make the most of hitting all creatures. (Although Mystic Decree is pretty funny with Stormtide Leviathan in a combo/control deck)
Also keep in mind that you don't necessarily need to run the sub-par UR spells, as you can cast a blue spell followed by a red one. (Of course you knew that =p) Any kind of decent blue cantrip (Such as Brainstorm/Ponder/Preordain) will give your dudes that matter flying. I would definitely skip Levitation and Flight Spellbomb!
Like I said, this is more of a control deck than a beat deck. I usually take other people's combo pieces/big threat spells and make them my own.
Long-Term Plans is ok if you ask me. It seems to really only make itself worth it if you have Sensei's Divining Top in play, which doesn't always happen.
And yah, I like Wonder as my method to give all my creatures flying because getting it to the yard is pretty easy to accomplish in this deck, or I just beat into people for 2 a lot (it's always fun to throw on the swords onto wonder to get the procs, because no one really wants to block it lol)
EDIT: Did a couple of card changes
Out: Grixis Panorama >>>> In: Terramorphic Expanse
Out: Mindwrack Liege >>>> In: Hellkite Charger
Out: Flameblast Dragon >>>> In: Reverberate
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[RETIRED Primers]:
RW Aurelia, The Warleader --- R Daretti, Scrap Savant --- RUB Thraximundar