This deck originally was created for multi player games, but after much testing I wanted to create something that is well rounded. So this is what I have now. Suggestions are welcome.
If you get this organized into a more easily readable list, I think you'll get more (and better quality) advice.
From what I can make of it though, it looks like a pretty standard Zur list.
I like Dimir House Guard. It's a good tutor for a lot of powerful spells in the list, including being able to go in after Zur if he gets Hindered into your library or something. It also fetches Damnation, Collective Restraint and Solemn Simulacrum... and it only costs 3 to tutor so you can play any of those spells on curve too. There's a lot of transmute cards I really like, but he's probably my favorite. He's also a sacrifice outlet too in case someone pops a Hallowed Burial or Condemn against you too.
I might also look into Expedition Map and/or Tolaria West. Tutoring for any land is savage. Tolaria West does it without taking up a spell slot, and Expedition Map fits nicely on curve to help to secure your first 5 or so land drops. Sometimes you really need that Maze of Ith, Strip Mine or Hall of the Bandit Lord, and other times you just really need your Arcane Sanctum.
I don't know how competetive you want the list to be, but I'll offer up a few suggestions.
First and foremost, run a tight Zur tutor package that includes 8-12 optimal targets, and cut the rest for disruption or other more needed cards. For example, the only protection Zur really needs is Vanishing, so you can cut any redundant cards.
Here's the tutor package I might go with:
1. Vanishing
2. Steel of the Godhead - For unblockability and lifelink
3. Unspeakable Symbol - Huge boost to Zur that stays even if enchantment gets removed, and you can add more counters with lifelink.
4 Empyrial Armor - Huge boost not dependent on life.
5. Solitary Confinement - Protection from nearly everything.
6. Bitterbossom - Good chump blockers, helps against Edict effect, and can pay upkeep costs. (See below)
7. Contamination - Locks people out of the game.
8. Oblivion Ring - Good answer to problematic permanents.
9. Aura of Silence - Makes your opponent's things more expensive and can destroy art/ench as well.
10. Necropotence - Draws a lot of cards...
11. Phyrexian Arena - Another avenue to draw cards.
12. Prison Term - Simply shuts down voltron generals, even Uril.
Other: Copy Artifact / Copy Enchantment - Not really needed, but are fun and you'll always have a target.
Next, you'll want most everything that gets Zur out as quickly as possible, include all the signets and talismans you can run. (Favor these over Mind Stone effect because they provide colored mana)
For the rest of the deck, run 3CC or less counterspells. =D Also additional cheap removal such as Swords to Plowshares and card-drawing.
If you wanted to make a "multi-player only" tuned Zur, I would cut some of the better cards so people don't hate on you right away. Run things like Rhystic Study in the tutor package. And most importantly, don't go for the same exact combo or win-piece every time. People seem to hate that. =(
I'm not saying use all the suggestions here (obviously) but hopefully you can pul some ideas from it!
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I don't know how effective Tolaria West will be. I don't see it as a game changer. Maybe I am missing the boat here. I could probably put it in for Eiganjo Castle
@ Darklich: I like the contaminationbitterblossom combo, but there is a fine line between fun multi player and everyone kill zur first.
In multi player games I find that I need more zur targets because of all the hate that I get. I don't know if minimizing my targets to merely 12 will better my game or hinder it. I think that I need more play testing to discover the correct amount of targets.
Unspeakable Symbol!! There is so much removal in this format, that I feel like I would more likely kill myself before making this effective. In my play group I am usually under 20 life when I get the lock... if I ever do.
I am also having issues cutting zur targets. There are two that I can live without and I have them on the chopping block, but the rest I use generally in a game...
Swaps that I can get behind--
Iridescent Angel--->Dimir House Guard
Unmake--->Path to Exile I don't know why I didn't think of this.
Undermine--->Dissipate I like exile over the 3 life, agreed.
And then maybe cut Dromar for Divining top. Playtest it for a bit after that, and see how you like those changes before going crazy with swaps.
Academy Rector - She provides great defense for this deck and you already have a robust toolbox of cards for her to fetch.
Temple of the False God - I almost always include this card in my non-green decks as it provides a bit of ramp in colors that struggle with it and it is not as fragile as the mana rocks. It is very common for me to tutor this up with Tolaria West.
Memory Plunder - Just a strong, versatile card that can give you access to things outside your colors like ramp.
Telepathy - Deceptively powerful especially with a general like Zur. You can use all your reactive spells to perfection and will always know exactly what to fetch with tight play.
I have been pondering the idea of putting in Academy Rector. I think that she will be more valuable than Idyllic Tutor in the long run. I mean, when she is wiped, then the enchantment is in play OR I can enchant her!
Memory Plunder seems fair, but I don't know if it will mesh with my play style. I don't want to draw it up and hope there is something beneficial available.
Temple of the False God seems boss! I just wonder if it will irritate my already fragile mana base... hmm.
Telepathy I don't think is good enough to run as a Zur target. My deck is becoming increasingly tighter every week. Maybe in Zur 1.0, but I feel that there are better enchantments to utilize.
Thanks for the input.
What do you think about Sun Titan? I have heard mixed reviews. Seems like a beast, but I also don't want to lose the game to Bribery.
What do you think about Sun Titan? I have heard mixed reviews. Seems like a beast, but I also don't want to lose the game to Bribery.
You won't. They'll just grab your Angel of Despair, Divinity of Pride or something else that's even nastier. Zur flies... I wouldn't worry about losing to a briberied Sun Titan. I'd be more worried about your other nasty monsters you run instead.
Propaganda is similar to Collective Restraint and Ghostly Prison. Having to pay 2 for my own creatures attack seems counter productive. I generally would rather have the 2 available to counter.
Planar Collapse is similar to Damnation. Tutorable is good, but more times than not it is avoided either by sac effects or another wrath effect. 4 creatures on the board is alot in EDH, especially when I generally have 1 or less.
I am leaning toward Planar Collapse as the replacement, but wanted some feedback.
Propaganda is similar to Collective Restraint and Ghostly Prison. Having to pay 2 for my own creatures attack seems counter productive. I generally would rather have the 2 available to counter.
Propaganda doesn't make you pay, just your opponents. I would run at absolute most 1 card that taxes creatures to attack you as it is really only good at stopping token decks. For this deck I would cut Ghostly Prison and Collective Restraint easily. These cards protect you about as well as Browbeat draws cards. If you want people to not attack you tutor up Solitary Confinement followed by Necropotence.
Ya, you only really need one "pay to attack me" card, I think. I'd drop Collective Restraint and one of the 2 Propaganda effects. It's only really valuable when you're about to be attacked by a ton of creatures, and in those cases, one taxing effect is enough to stop the hoard. It does nothing to stop Rafiq, Uril, or any other big creature from attacking you.
And wouldn't you rather just tutor up Zur targets or the lock instead of grabbing taxing cards? I think you should run Rhystic Study as your tax card instead. And ya, Necropotence is beastly in this deck.
And wouldn't you rather just tutor up Zur targets or the lock instead of grabbing taxing cards? I think you should run Rhystic Study as your tax card instead. And ya, Necropotence is beastly in this deck.
Rhystic Study is a good idea as it works very well as a tax card that occasionally draws as well. On a similar note Mystic Remora is a very powerful card as well. I love when I have both in play and I can ask people "Are you going to pay 5 more mana for that spell?". It's just 5 mana...
It's not bad to have both anyways. If someone Returns to Dust your Necro, the Arena is good backup, and vise versa. And they're also not at odds with one another. You can draw during your upkeep to have 8 cards available even if you did have both in play.
1 Zur, the Enchanter
Creatures
2 Weathered Wayfarer
3 Shadowmage Infiltrator
4 Solemn Simulacrum
5 Divinity of Pride
6 Dimir House Guard
7 Draining Whelk
8 Angel of Despair
9 Eternal Dragon
10 Myojin of Night's Reach
11 Puppeteer Clique
12 Sun Titan
13 Academy Rector
Zur targets
14 Land Tax
15 Vanishing
16 Daybreak Coronet
17 Greater Auramancy
18 Seal of Cleansing
19 Standstill
20 Sleeper's Robe
21 Karmic Justice
22 Prison Term
23 Oblivion Ring
24 Unquestioned Authority
25 Aura of Silence
26 Empyrial Armor
27 Necropotence
28 Steel of the Godhead
29 Copy Enchantment
30 Solitary Confinement
31 Seal of Doom
Other Enchantments
32 Collective Restraint
33 No Mercy
34 Debtor' Knell
35 Condemn
36 Mystical Tutor
38 Mana Drain
39 Hinder
40 Forbid
41 Dissipate
42 Counterspell
43 Dromar's Charm
44 Path to Exile
45 Dismantling Blow
46 Mortify
47 Hallowed Burial
48 Damnation
49 Vindicate
50 Enlightened Tutor
51 Vampiric Tutor
52 Demonic Tutor
53 Compulsive Research
54 Fact or Fiction
55 Replenish
Artifacts
56 Sol Ring
57 Sensei's Divining Top
58 Orzhov Signet
59 Azorius Signet
60 Dimir Signet
61 Coalition Relic
62 Darksteel Ingot
Lands
63 Winding Canyons
64 Terramorphic Expanse
65 Bad River
66 Flood Plain
67 Polluted Delta
68 Flooded Strand
69 Marsh Flats
70 Hall of the Bandit Lord
71 Kor Haven
72 Eiganjo Castle
73 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
74 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
75 Serra's Sanctum
76 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
77 Arcane Sanctum
78 Celestial Colonnade
79 Reflecting Pool
80 Strip Mine
81 Vesuva
82 Watery Grave
83 Godless Shrine
84 Hallowed Fountain
85 Bojuka Bog
86 Mistveil Plains
87 Tolaria West
88 Scrubland
89 Tundra
90 Underground Sea
91 Swamp
92 Swamp
93 Swamp
94 Island
95 Island
96 Island
97 Plains
98 Plains
99 Plains
100 Liliana Vess
Isn't it obvious??
Pros:
You're playing Zur.
Cons:
Your opponents know you're playing Zur.
1 Mana Vortex
1 Bitter Blossom
1 Diplomatic Immunity
1 Dust Bowl
Creatures
1 Palinchron
Spells
1 Wrath of God
1 Sunder
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Swords to Plowshares
Iridescent Angel--->Dimir House Guard
Unmake--->Path to Exile
Undermine--->Dissipate
Sphinx of the Steel Wind---->Puppeteer Clique
Diplomatic Immunity---->Mystical Tutor
Dromar, the Banisher---->Sensei's Divining Top
Dromar's Cavern---->Celestial Colonnade
Mystic Gate---->Bojuka Bog
Sunken Ruin---->Mystveil Plains
Fetid Heath---->Tolaria West
Propaganda---->Rhystic Study
Ghostly Prison---->Condemn
Rhystic Study---->Karmic Justice
From what I can make of it though, it looks like a pretty standard Zur list.
I like Dimir House Guard. It's a good tutor for a lot of powerful spells in the list, including being able to go in after Zur if he gets Hindered into your library or something. It also fetches Damnation, Collective Restraint and Solemn Simulacrum... and it only costs 3 to tutor so you can play any of those spells on curve too. There's a lot of transmute cards I really like, but he's probably my favorite. He's also a sacrifice outlet too in case someone pops a Hallowed Burial or Condemn against you too.
I might also look into Expedition Map and/or Tolaria West. Tutoring for any land is savage. Tolaria West does it without taking up a spell slot, and Expedition Map fits nicely on curve to help to secure your first 5 or so land drops. Sometimes you really need that Maze of Ith, Strip Mine or Hall of the Bandit Lord, and other times you just really need your Arcane Sanctum.
And ya, a Sensei's Divining Top would be swell. If not that, Scroll Rack and Crystal Ball are also awesome.
Cheers!
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First and foremost, run a tight Zur tutor package that includes 8-12 optimal targets, and cut the rest for disruption or other more needed cards. For example, the only protection Zur really needs is Vanishing, so you can cut any redundant cards.
Here's the tutor package I might go with:
1. Vanishing
2. Steel of the Godhead - For unblockability and lifelink
3. Unspeakable Symbol - Huge boost to Zur that stays even if enchantment gets removed, and you can add more counters with lifelink.
4 Empyrial Armor - Huge boost not dependent on life.
5. Solitary Confinement - Protection from nearly everything.
6. Bitterbossom - Good chump blockers, helps against Edict effect, and can pay upkeep costs. (See below)
7. Contamination - Locks people out of the game.
8. Oblivion Ring - Good answer to problematic permanents.
9. Aura of Silence - Makes your opponent's things more expensive and can destroy art/ench as well.
10. Necropotence - Draws a lot of cards...
11. Phyrexian Arena - Another avenue to draw cards.
12. Prison Term - Simply shuts down voltron generals, even Uril.
Other: Copy Artifact / Copy Enchantment - Not really needed, but are fun and you'll always have a target.
Next, you'll want most everything that gets Zur out as quickly as possible, include all the signets and talismans you can run. (Favor these over Mind Stone effect because they provide colored mana)
Lastly, makes sure your opponent's can't do anything by running Armageddon / Ravages of War / Sunder.
Also, you can run Mana Vortex as part of your tutor package.
And bring it all together with the good tutors: Mystical Tutor, Merchant Scroll, Vampiric Tutor, Demonic Tutor, Imperial Seal, Enlightened Tutor, etc.
For the rest of the deck, run 3CC or less counterspells. =D Also additional cheap removal such as Swords to Plowshares and card-drawing.
If you wanted to make a "multi-player only" tuned Zur, I would cut some of the better cards so people don't hate on you right away. Run things like Rhystic Study in the tutor package. And most importantly, don't go for the same exact combo or win-piece every time. People seem to hate that. =(
I'm not saying use all the suggestions here (obviously) but hopefully you can pul some ideas from it!
I like Dissipate more than Undermine. Not only is it easier to cast, but I think the exiling is more valuable than the 3 life lost.
Also, no love for Condemn and Path to Exile? I like those two cards a lot more than Unmake, for example.
You should put spaces after the numbers to separate them from the card tags.
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Path to exile seems like a good swap for unmake.
I don't know how effective Tolaria West will be. I don't see it as a game changer. Maybe I am missing the boat here. I could probably put it in for Eiganjo Castle
@ Darklich: I like the contamination bitterblossom combo, but there is a fine line between fun multi player and everyone kill zur first.
In multi player games I find that I need more zur targets because of all the hate that I get. I don't know if minimizing my targets to merely 12 will better my game or hinder it. I think that I need more play testing to discover the correct amount of targets.
Unspeakable Symbol!! There is so much removal in this format, that I feel like I would more likely kill myself before making this effective. In my play group I am usually under 20 life when I get the lock... if I ever do.
Swaps that I can get behind--
Iridescent Angel--->Dimir House Guard
Unmake--->Path to Exile I don't know why I didn't think of this.
Undermine--->Dissipate I like exile over the 3 life, agreed.
On the chopping block--
Diplomatic Immunity
Dromar, the Banisher
PropagandaorPrison Term
Eiganjo Castle
Standstill?
Any other creatures that seem useless? Myojin of Night's Reach indestructible + the discard ability is BOSS. Divinity of Pride is big scary and lifelink.
I am also having issues cutting zur targets. There are two that I can live without and I have them on the chopping block, but the rest I use generally in a game...
Need to make room--
Sensei's Divining Top
Sunder
Bitterblossom?
Contamination?
And then maybe cut Dromar for Divining top. Playtest it for a bit after that, and see how you like those changes before going crazy with swaps.
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I have made some pretty extensive changes since my last post. From my last post I have also swapped out:
Absorb---->Mana Drain
Sphinx of the Steel Wind---->Puppeteer Clique
Diplomatic Immunity---->Mystical Tutor
Dromar, the Banisher---->Sensei's Divining Top
Dromar's Cavern---->Celestial Colonnade
These changes seem to have made the deck more stream line which is awesome.
I do have a current dilemma. I want to add Tolaria West, but I don't know what to swap out for it. Initially I figured Eiganjo Castle, but then it screws up my mana base. Swap it for Mystic Gate, Fetid Heath, or Sunken Ruins? Any thoughts?
Also, what does everyone think of Mistveil Plains and Bojuka Bog? Worth it?
Thanks for the feedback.
I think Bojuka Bog is a slam-dunk, and I'd include it for sure.
Likewise with Tolaria West (bonus points if you add in some 0-cost spells to snag too, like Pact of Negation and Engineered Explosives ;)).
I'd consider dropping the 3 filter lands for the Bog, the Plains, Tolaria West and then maybe find room another land target for TW (like Maze of Ith, Miren, the Moaning Well or Creeping Tar Pit).
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Mystic Gate---->Bojuka Bog
Sunken Ruin---->Mystveil Plains
Fetid Heath---->Tolaria West
Thanks for all the help.
Academy Rector - She provides great defense for this deck and you already have a robust toolbox of cards for her to fetch.
Temple of the False God - I almost always include this card in my non-green decks as it provides a bit of ramp in colors that struggle with it and it is not as fragile as the mana rocks. It is very common for me to tutor this up with Tolaria West.
Memory Plunder - Just a strong, versatile card that can give you access to things outside your colors like ramp.
Telepathy - Deceptively powerful especially with a general like Zur. You can use all your reactive spells to perfection and will always know exactly what to fetch with tight play.
Memory Plunder seems fair, but I don't know if it will mesh with my play style. I don't want to draw it up and hope there is something beneficial available.
Temple of the False God seems boss! I just wonder if it will irritate my already fragile mana base... hmm.
Telepathy I don't think is good enough to run as a Zur target. My deck is becoming increasingly tighter every week. Maybe in Zur 1.0, but I feel that there are better enchantments to utilize.
Thanks for the input.
What do you think about Sun Titan? I have heard mixed reviews. Seems like a beast, but I also don't want to lose the game to Bribery.
You won't. They'll just grab your Angel of Despair, Divinity of Pride or something else that's even nastier. Zur flies... I wouldn't worry about losing to a briberied Sun Titan. I'd be more worried about your other nasty monsters you run instead.
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Out, Propaganda or Planar Collapse?
Propaganda is similar to Collective Restraint and Ghostly Prison. Having to pay 2 for my own creatures attack seems counter productive. I generally would rather have the 2 available to counter.
Planar Collapse is similar to Damnation. Tutorable is good, but more times than not it is avoided either by sac effects or another wrath effect. 4 creatures on the board is alot in EDH, especially when I generally have 1 or less.
I am leaning toward Planar Collapse as the replacement, but wanted some feedback.
Propaganda doesn't make you pay, just your opponents. I would run at absolute most 1 card that taxes creatures to attack you as it is really only good at stopping token decks. For this deck I would cut Ghostly Prison and Collective Restraint easily. These cards protect you about as well as Browbeat draws cards. If you want people to not attack you tutor up Solitary Confinement followed by Necropotence.
And wouldn't you rather just tutor up Zur targets or the lock instead of grabbing taxing cards? I think you should run Rhystic Study as your tax card instead. And ya, Necropotence is beastly in this deck.
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Rhystic Study is a good idea as it works very well as a tax card that occasionally draws as well. On a similar note Mystic Remora is a very powerful card as well. I love when I have both in play and I can ask people "Are you going to pay 5 more mana for that spell?". It's just 5 mana...
Propaganda---->Rhystic Study
Ghostly Prison for Reliquary Tower or Codemn?
Necropotence is a beast... I should just replace Phyrexian Arena with it already.
And Condemn > Tower, IMO.
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Yeah I only need one, Phyrexian Arena or Necropotence because of the tutorable nature of the deck. I think that Necropotence is better generally.
Condem is in for now. I'll try the tower out and see how it fares. I like idea of jacking up Empyrial Armor ftw.
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