This deck came about because I was looking for something to replace Jenara, Asura of War, which I got bored with because it's difficult to build around her. I wanted to play GW, but I wanted to stay away from popular generals like Captain Sisay, Gaddock Teeg, and Rhys, the Redeemed. Even though Saffi is usually associated with combo, she looked like a fun general to build around, so I quickly put together a decklist and hopped onto Cockatrice to give it a whirl.
In my first three games with it, I completely demolished my unsuspecting opponents, and I soon realized I had an extremely powerful deck with untapped potential on my hands. I will say without reservation that this is probably the strongest deck I've built or played, and it has the potential to win at any table, even against competitive generals like Sharuum, the Hedgemon or Jhoira of the Ghitu
Sacrifice Saffi Eriksdotter: When target creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield this turn, return that card to the battlefield.
So on first glance, it's just a 2/2 for two mana, with a neat ability of saving a creature from dying once. Let's look a little deeper though:
- She costs two mana, allowing her to come out extremely early, and making her extremely cheap to replay.
- Her ability doesn't require a tap, allowing you to attack with her two power. It might not seem like much, but it helps kill early undefended planeswalkers.
- You're spending two mana to save your six mana creature from removal. Efficiency is key here.
- The creature she saves still leaves to the graveyard, then re-enters the battlefield. That's right, you're still triggering all the graveyard abilities, as well as enters the battlefield abilities!
- Her ability doesn't care how the creature goes to the graveyard. Destroyed, sacrificed, or put there by a state-based effect, it doesn't matter.
Okay, so Saffi is a little stronger on closer inspection. But it still doesn't explain what makes the deck so strong. The answer can be found with her interaction with this card:
Whenever Primeval Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, you may search your library for up to two land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
Okay, unless you've been living under a rock for the past year, you should know about Primeval Titan. Nearly every green deck significantly improves by including it, so it doesn't really mean a whole lot that Saffi gets a lot better with the Titan. But while other decks just use Primeval Titan to ramp quickly, Saffi uses the Titan as an entire strategy. Here, Titan not only ramps, but it sets up its own engine to ramp even faster and protect itself.
The engine is actually extremely easy to set up. All you need is five plains (Non-basic plains are fine), a way to get the Titan into play, and Saffi. That's it. Prime Time does the rest of the work for you, and in fact, you don't even need five plains or Saffi in some cases. So how does he accomplish this? Once he hits the field, search up High Market and Emeria, the Sky Ruin. If you have another sacrifice outlet, sac the Titan, then bring it back with Saffi for two more plains from Titan. Saffi goes to your graveyard, only to be brought back again during your upkeep. Depending on what other cards you have, it makes it easier or harder to set up the Emeria engine. But either way, it is deceptively easy to set up. And once you have it going, you can then tutor for a toolbox of lands.
Strategy, Part Two: Playing Through Hate
While this deck is nearly immune to most standard disruption that people pack, once people start catching on, they will put in more effort to preventing your engine from getting online. I will go over each form of disruption, its effectiveness, and how to combat it.
Creature destruction
This is by far, the weakest form of disruption against this deck, and in many cases, actually helps Saffi by giving her a free sac outlet. If players don't know already, they should learn quickly: never use this type of disruption against Saffi. It just plays right into the deck's hands.
Creature exile
This is slightly more effective than simply sending creatures to the graveyard, but only slightly. Any sort of sac outlet lets the deck save any of its most important creatures for later recursion.
Non-creature permanent destruction
Next on the list is destroying Saffi's Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Cauldron of Souls, and other important engine pieces. This will usually slow the deck down by a turn, maybe two, as they have to tutor for another recursion piece. It won't do much more than that though.
Grave hate
Simply put, this makes the deck play "fair" until you find hate for their graveyard hate. Keep your graveyard abuse to a minimum until their grave hate is gone. It's not that devastating since you can still get one ETB effect out of all your creatures. If they're trying to use grave hate after you've already ramped up though, just laugh in their face, tutor up Mirror Entity and kill the player with the grave hate. As a last resort, Riftsweeper can get back exiled cards for you.
Grave stealing
I differentiated this from grave hate because you deal with them differently, and I believe this can be a lot more dangerous than just grave hate. This includes primarily Geth, Lord of the Vault, Beacon of Unrest, Puppeteer Clique, and many other black cards. Not only does this prevent your own recursion, but it lets them get some use out of them as well, and it can shut down Saffi completely. The best option is to try to only dump creatures into your yard end of turn of the player before you to minimize opportunities, then tutor for Duplicant to take out Geth/Clique to minimize damage. If you know they're coming or they're on the field already, make sure Saffi never hits the graveyard - this is one of the few times to send her to the command zone. You could also tutor for Scrabbling Claws to exile your own cards, or exile Saffi to send her to the command Zone. If someone is playing Geth, try to make sure they never get their mana doublers, then keep Geth off the field as much as possible. Geth can hose Saffi pretty hard, but it's still very winnable as long as you hate out the Geth player first.
White disruption
I'm using this as a catch-all for any form of "lawmaking" disruption, although this isn't only inclusive in white. Examples include Aven Mindcensor, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, and Damping Matrix. Some are just minor annoyances (Grand Arbiter), others can shut down the engine hard (Mindcensor, Linvala, Damping Matrix) and must be dealt with quickly. Fortunately, they are a bit less commonly played than other forms of disruption, so it's not something the deck needs to worry too much about. One last note, Humility is basically auto-scoop, as the deck has one non-tutorable answer (Aura Shards). Thankfully, Humility is almost never played, and when it is, you can usually count on other players hating out the player that played Humility.
Card Choices
Notable Omissions
Eldrazi - These are typically a staple in any big mana strategy. They aren't included because they aren't needed. You can typically win with Mirror Entity, Genesis Wave, any Saffi combo, or just building massive advantage through recurring other creatures, all of which can win just as fast, if not faster. By not including them, it lowers the curve considerably and makes the deck a lot more resilient to Bribery.
Sweepers - Again, not really needed. Saffi sets the pace for what needs to be dealt with, so there isn't many things worthwhile to sweep. Anything dangerous that does come along can be usually dealt with using spot removal or fogs in the form of creatures, meaning it's tutorable as opposed to sweepers, which you won't be able to have reliably in your hand when you need it.
Avenger of Zendikar - Avenger would be amazing with Primeval Titan. The problem is, Titan + Avenger is win-more, since Titan should win the game by himself. Other than that, I like my creatures to provide more utility than beating for a lot of damage. I have Mirror Entity to finish games anyway, and it provides more utility.
What's Felidar Sovereign doing for you? I didn't see any lifegain to make him worth it besides Momentus Fall, which is also middling in your deck with relatively low-powered creatures. I'd play an Oblation over the sovereign and maybe a Memory Jar over Momentus Fall. You are very light on card draw and removal. Memory Jar has the added effect of dumping lots of stuff into your yard to be recurred with Lark/Guide/etc.
What's Felidar Sovereign doing for you? I didn't see any lifegain to make him worth it besides Momentus Fall, which is also middling in your deck with relatively low-powered creatures. I'd play an Oblation over the sovereign and maybe a Memory Jar over Momentus Fall. You are very light on card draw and removal. Memory Jar has the added effect of dumping lots of stuff into your yard to be recurred with Lark/Guide/etc.
Great card choices elsewhere. Sigil of the New Dawn is a house.
Good points, Sovereign and Momentus Fall have been removed. I decided to add Harmonize instead of Memory Jar since it's a better setup card for the early game, which I feel is more important. Oblation probably deserves a spot somewhere.
Is Enduring Renewal a good idea for a deck like this? Or do you think it would be too much of a risk?
Great idea, not sure if it's worth it but it's worth testing.
Please post with other suggestions and comments. I think this deck has a ton of untapped potential, but as I said in the original post, there are still some weaknesses that I'd like to address. A few other cards I'm considering:
Lifeline - Another potentially very abusive card. Akroma's Memorial - Allows me to win the same turn as casting a Genesis Wave, but I'm not sure if that alone is worth a spot.
Sword of Light and Shadow - Gives you another recurrence engine Mimic Vat gives you another outlet to abuse ETB/leaves play abilities. Especially with Seedborn Muse.
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Parallax Wave could be a nice addition as a way to abuse ETB affects and act as disruption and you can loop it with Eternal Witness. Since you are sac'ing your own guys so much you could try Fecundity as a card advantage engine. Worldly Tutor is another great creature tutor and I prefer to run Knight-Captain of Eos of Spikeweaver even though he costs a bit more because he creates multiple bodies.
Abusing P Tizzle with Emeria is a very solid plan. Do you feel guilty just steamrolling everyone who doesn't realize how nasty Primetime is?
Where's Mimic Vat? Man it would be such a house here. I'd run it over Reya Dawnbringer, personally. Or perhaps Akroma's Memorial. Why do you need Akroma's Memorial anyway? Am I missing a combo or something? I would think it's much better in token decks...
I'm also surprised you are rocking no wraths. You must have faith in the rest of the decks to keep things under control. Not a bad plan, but certainly a risky one, don't you think?
I'm not a fan of phyrexian furnace for grave hate. I'd rather run Tormod's Crypt and just one-shot someone's entire yard. But I don't think that has much to do with your deck, so don't take it as a criticism.
I love decks like this that abuse ETB effects to get value before creatures get involved in combat or wraths. I'm going to link a friend to this list, though I'd have to convince him to trade for a Primeval Titan...
Sword of Light and Shadow - Gives you another recurrence engine Mimic Vat gives you another outlet to abuse ETB/leaves play abilities. Especially with Seedborn Muse.
SoLS is pretty slow here. It requires 5 mana, combat step, and connecting, and it only gets me one creature to my hand once per turn. Most of my creatures don't like attacking, and my recursion is usually multiple times per turn or directly into play.
I forgot about Vat though. I'll find room for it and try it out.
Parallax Wave could be a nice addition as a way to abuse ETB affects and act as disruption and you can loop it with Eternal Witness. Since you are sac'ing your own guys so much you could try Fecundity as a card advantage engine. Worldly Tutor is another great creature tutor and I prefer to run Knight-Captain of Eos of Spikeweaver even though he costs a bit more because he creates multiple bodies.
Abusing ETB abilities is nice, but I'm not sure if this deck can abuse Wave that well since it doesn't seem to have that much synergy with other cards. Fecundity definitely should be tested, though I'm afraid it might help some other decks too much. I don't like Worldly Tutor for being card disadvantage, and I don't really need extra bodies from Knight-Captain. Still, good suggestions that should warrant testing.
If you plan on abusing persist with the cauldron, why not add Juniper Order Ranger? It's perfect for persist tricks.
Nice find, and I definitely would love to abuse it with Twilight Shepherd. Other than that though, it doesn't really seem to have much utility since there are only 3 persist cards in the whole deck, and Oran-Rief, the Vastwood is easier to search out and fits better in the deck.
Abusing P Tizzle with Emeria is a very solid plan. Do you feel guilty just steamrolling everyone who doesn't realize how nasty Primetime is?
I've certainly been getting complaints about this deck now. Most people say that it's one of the coolest decks they've seen, but they don't like playing against it because of how powerful it is. I'm always a casual player at heart, so I'll still put it away if enough people complain
Where's Mimic Vat? Man it would be such a house here. I'd run it over Reya Dawnbringer, personally. Or perhaps Akroma's Memorial. Why do you need Akroma's Memorial anyway? Am I missing a combo or something? I would think it's much better in token decks...
Yeah, I missed Mimic Vat. Reya Dawnbringer still requires some testing, she hasn't really mattered so far but I haven't really drawn her. Akroma's Memorial is in here almost solely to let me win the turn I play Genesis Wave. I'm still on the fence about it, but so far it's proven to be strong.
I'm also surprised you are rocking no wraths. You must have faith in the rest of the decks to keep things under control. Not a bad plan, but certainly a risky one, don't you think?
I'm not a fan of phyrexian furnace for grave hate. I'd rather run Tormod's Crypt and just one-shot someone's entire yard. But I don't think that has much to do with your deck, so don't take it as a criticism.
The problem is that I can't really tutor for Crypt/Furnace, so I'd rather have the one that "cycles". I've been skimping on graveyard hate, but so far, it hasn't been a problem because this deck tends to abuse the graveyard better than other decks anyway.
I love decks like this that abuse ETB effects to get value before creatures get involved in combat or wraths. I'm going to link a friend to this list, though I'd have to convince him to trade for a Primeval Titan...
The strategy is certainly extremely powerful. I've run several iterations such as Bant flickering/bouncing effects or Hazazon Slide, but Saffi seems to be stronger as it's much faster, more consistent and harder to disrupt, though it's more susceptible to grave hate.
Abusing ETB abilities is nice, but I'm not sure if this deck can abuse Wave that well since it doesn't seem to have that much synergy with other cards. Fecundity definitely should be tested, though I'm afraid it might help some other decks too much. I don't like Worldly Tutor for being card disadvantage, and I don't really need extra bodies from Knight-Captain.
Wave is much better than it appears on paper. Abusing ETB abilities is just a start, it also lets you protect your own creatures and wave out opposing ones. I really recommend you try this card out for awhile especially since you are on Cockatrice so you don't actually need to acquire one. Worldly Tutor can be card disadvantage but I imagine your main 2 targets will be Primeval Titan and Reveillark which will either negate the disadvantage or turn it into card advantage. Enlightened Tutor also falls in this category, if you are worried about losing a card just go get Skullclamp.
Wave is much better than it appears on paper. Abusing ETB abilities is just a start, it also lets you protect your own creatures and wave out opposing ones. I really recommend you try this card out for awhile especially since you are on Cockatrice so you don't actually need to acquire one. Worldly Tutor can be card disadvantage but I imagine your main 2 targets will be Primeval Titan and Reveillark which will either negate the disadvantage or turn it into card advantage. Enlightened Tutor also falls in this category, if you are worried about losing a card just go get Skullclamp.
I actually have one already, I use it in my Hanna, Ship's Navigator deck. The thing is, protecting my creatures is rarely a problem with recursion, and the deck doesn't run the cards to make Wave's exile permanent for opposing creatures. I do realize the deck needs another option in case someone has a ton of graveyard hate, so it might work as a plan B. I prefer Ghostway for that though. I'm not saying I don't like the idea, I just need a little more convincing about Wave.
The main thing about Worldly/Enlightened tutor isn't just that they're card disadvantage, it's that I'm not so sure I need them right now. The deck runs so many creature tutors as is, and I haven't really needed any enchantment/artifact enough for E-Tutor. I guess tutoring for Clamp might make it good enough though, I'll try to test it out.
Phyrexian Furnace is replaced by Scrabbling Claws. The reason? I'm starting to run into a ton of black players trying to steal my graveyard, including Saffi. Claws has slightly better utility in this regard by letting me exile Saffi and put her in the command zone. I've also run into Timetwister with Saffi in the yard, which isn't fun for me.
Slightly upped the forest count since I need green mana to ramp early. I came into a couple situations where I was short green. Not good. Also tried to lower the mana curve significantly.
Honestly I feel that Saffi can definitely be considered tier one. She has the ability to win on just about any competitive table, through significant hate. I've personally been experiencing a LOT more hate on Cockatrice now, but the deck is still winning.
I think the deck could use some streamlining though. I'm considering more emphasis on combos and take out some redunant cards, since really all the deck wants to do is resolve a Primeval Titan and abuse him more than any other deck can and just win from there. I also feel guilty about running so much ramp without any creature bigger than 6 cmc except for Woodfall Primus, but so far, it hasn't been a problem and I like that people can't really get anything worthwhile by Briberying me.
Edit: I think I'm going to take a break from playing this deck online for a while. People don't enjoy playing against it, and I've been getting quite a few ragequits now. I'd still like to improve upon it though, I just probably won't spend as much time working on it. Any more suggestions are still welcome though.
Given up magic because a)its a waste of money b)it sucks the joy out of life c)im doing more interesting things than tapping pieces of plastic that have no intrinsic value.
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
so you may have inspired me... saffi looks like it could be a house. anyway any thoughts on aluren +cloudstone curio? it seems to me that that could do some silly thing with low cmc guys. just farhaven elf and elvish visionary would be nuts... on the topic of visionary, why not run wall of omens? same cost same ability but a bit of a better blocker. just a thought
Funny i was running all three in the same deck but i just didn't see it till now
I'm running Blasting Station right now which doesn't require another card to combo. Phyrexian Altar and Ashnod's Altar are definitely on my watch list as additional sac outlets though but I just haven't found room for it and I'm not sure if they do enough in this deck, especially considering I don't run any tokens.
so you may have inspired me... saffi looks like it could be a house. anyway any thoughts on aluren +cloudstone curio? it seems to me that that could do some silly thing with low cmc guys. just farhaven elf and elvish visionary would be nuts... on the topic of visionary, why not run wall of omens? same cost same ability but a bit of a better blocker. just a thought
Aluren/Curio definitely should be tested, and it might warrant adding Enduring Renewal, though this will definitely give it more of a combo feel to it.
Visionary can attack (Mirror Entity) and it can be Clamped. And honestly, being a better blocker matters little when most of your creatures want to find their way into your graveyard anyway.
Made an update about the deck's gameplan. I might try to make a much more interactive version that's more fun to play against. It kind of figures that a deck like this comes along in which its sole purpose is to abuse Primeval Titan as much as it can.
Sorry that Jenara isnt panning out for you these days. One thing I might see working out would be replacing Cultivate with Yavimaya Elder as it gives you yet another creature to abuse with your general / recursion schemes.
EDIT: Also you might want to look into how useful Rings of Brighthearth might be able to be in this deck. I could see saffi being able to target 2 creatures almost good enough on its own to be considered for the deck. Rings also works sooooo amazingly with Survival of the Fittest effects as you discard one creature and tutor up two :P.
EDIT 2: No Sensei's Divining Top or similar effects (Sylvan Library, Scroll Rack, Mirri's Guile) in the decklist. I find this rather puzzeling as these are often staples of EDH. I also noticed that there is no Sol Ring in the list which I might be able to overlook as you are still ramping rather quickly through land ramp. Plus your general doesn't cost much.
EDIT 3: I could see Avenger of Zendikar being an amazing finisher for you considering your deck is all about using recursion and hardening your threats using your general. Avenger with some backup protection would be absolutely nuts. You can also abuse him and double up his tokens at will with a sac outlet. His tokens are so useful with a skullclamp in play as well.
EDIT 4: Sorry about all of the updates but I keep looking at your list and thinking of things :P. I was a bit curious as to how useful Seedborn Muse has been so far. I don't see a lot of mana sinks / instant spells that the deck really looks like it would use. I could see this being cut unless it has some hidden tec that I am not seeing. By all means if it has been panning out keep it. I just thought you might want to look it over and assess how useful it has been / can be.
EDIT 5: I love the fact that Viridian Emissary is a 2 mana drop but hate how you cannot control when he ramps you a land. It is doubtful that anyone will let you kill him off before turn 4 in a multiplayer game. I think you might want to consider Farhaven Elf for this spot instead as it costs one more mana but ramps on entry every time.
One other note I wanted to make was that as amazing as Mirari's Wake is in any G/W deck, it also makes it difficult to execute the lark combo as you can no longer use Mirror Entity as your sac outlet. You run other sac outlets in here so it might not be an issue but I just wanted to make you aware of this problem for the future. It is unlikely to happen but it will suck if it does.
so you may have inspired me... saffi looks like it could be a house. anyway any thoughts on aluren +cloudstone curio? it seems to me that that could do some silly thing with low cmc guys. just farhaven elf and elvish visionary would be nuts...
This is precisely how Momir Vig, Simic Visionary combo decks work. Vig can tutor up the creatures you want for Aluren quite easily and has the card draw to make it work. Sure, Saffi and other GW/Bant decks can try it and it would probably be successful, but Vig is so good at it it's almost silly to try it with anyone else and expect better results.
Sorry that Jenara isnt panning out for you these days. One thing I might see working out would be replacing Cultivate with Yavimaya Elder as it gives you yet another creature to abuse with your general / recursion schemes.
It's not that Jenara didn't work out for me, she was really strong. I just got bored with her considering she's not really a "build around me" general. Alas, Elder doesn't actually ramp making him a little slow in this deck.
EDIT: Also you might want to look into how useful Rings of Brighthearth might be able to be in this deck. I could see saffi being able to target 2 creatures almost good enough on its own to be considered for the deck. Rings also works sooooo amazingly with Survival of the Fittest effects as you discard one creature and tutor up two :P.
I love the idea of using Rings with Saffi, but the problem is I have very little other targets for it.
EDIT 2: No Sensei's Divining Top or similar effects (Sylvan Library, Scroll Rack, Mirri's Guile) in the decklist. I find this rather puzzeling as these are often staples of EDH. I also noticed that there is no Sol Ring in the list which I might be able to overlook as you are still ramping rather quickly through land ramp. Plus your general doesn't cost much.
Yep, no Top or Sol Ring. I'm sure I could fit them in somewhere, but I just never needed it. I could probably try a little harder to fit them in. I did have Sylvan Library in for a while but it never mattered.
EDIT 3: I could see Avenger of Zendikar being an amazing finisher for you considering your deck is all about using recursion and hardening your threats using your general. Avenger with some backup protection would be absolutely nuts. You can also abuse him and double up his tokens at will with a sac outlet. His tokens are so useful with a skullclamp in play as well.
Avenger is something I've tried to fit in on several occasions and I love how well it can take advantage of Primeval Titan, but the reason it hasn't made the cut is it doesn't provide the same utility as any of my other creatures.
EDIT 4: Sorry about all of the updates but I keep looking at your list and thinking of things :P. I was a bit curious as to how useful Seedborn Muse has been so far. I don't see a lot of mana sinks / instant spells that the deck really looks like it would use. I could see this being cut unless it has some hidden tec that I am not seeing. By all means if it has been panning out keep it. I just thought you might want to look it over and assess how useful it has been / can be.
Seedborn Muse pretty much wins me the game with Primeval Titan out. One of my favorite plays is Tooth and Nail for Muse and Titan, letting me get High Market and a sac outlet immediately. With Sigil of the New Dawn, I can search out Winding Canyons and start abusing ETB abilities several times per opponent's turn. Basically with any kind of recursion actually, it allows me to abuse ETB abilities way more than before. Also, what makes Muse so good is that it is one of the reasons the deck can face 3vs1 scenarios and still win handily.
EDIT 5: I love the fact that Viridian Emissary is a 2 mana drop but hate how you cannot control when he ramps you a land. It is doubtful that anyone will let you kill him off before turn 4 in a multiplayer game. I think you might want to consider Farhaven Elf for this spot instead as it costs one more mana but ramps on entry every time.
I am running Farhaven Elf already. One good thing about Emissary is it provides an early rattlesnake, since no one wants to attack into it.
One other note I wanted to make was that as amazing as Mirari's Wake is in any G/W deck, it also makes it difficult to execute the lark combo as you can no longer use Mirror Entity as your sac outlet. You run other sac outlets in here so it might not be an issue but I just wanted to make you aware of this problem for the future. It is unlikely to happen but it will suck if it does.
In the 15 or so games I've played, I've only comboed out with Mirror Entity once. It's definitely something I need to keep in mind though.
This is precisely how Momir Vig, Simic Visionary combo decks work. Vig can tutor up the creatures you want for Aluren quite easily and has the card draw to make it work. Sure, Saffi and other GW/Bant decks can try it and it would probably be successful, but Vig is so good at it it's almost silly to try it with anyone else and expect better results.
Makes sense. I could see how it would be a bit clunky in this deck.
You never need Top or Sol Ring but they make the rest of you deck better by giving you more explosive starts (Sol Ring) or digging for the cards you need (Top). They should clearly be good enough to get in your list but I could see excluding them because they are boring/time consuming (Top)/auto-include cards that you don't want to use.
Definitely true. I'll try fitting them in again, I could see how they would help when I have an otherwise slow hand. I think I'm going to try to fit in Enlightened Tutor as well. Just need to find what to take out.
What are your thoughts on -
Deadwood Treefolk. Everyone says how great it is with Saffi, it could be that I've almost never drawn him but he's never made a difference for me.
Finally some Saffi lists. I've been running Saffi for almost a year now, but never wanted to post a list. I'm very anti-combo, but Altar of Dementia is a mana cheaper than Blasting Station, and, assuming no Eldrazi Titan shenans, it wins the game just as well with Saffi and lark/sun/karmic.
My deck is more smashy and casual. A lot of overlap, but I basically just use Saffi to keep a solid board and just try to get there.
Glad someone else has discovered how awesome she is.
It's widely known that [EDH] is very broken. Building a superdeck is quite easy. So what defines you as a player is [...] how you show restraint and creativity while still remaining a competitive player and a good sport.
the only problem with urza is that he is an oldwalker, so its abilities would be like:
+3: remove up to ten target permanents from the play
-2: win the game
-8: kick your opponents in the face, then win the game
starting loyalty: 100
Finally some Saffi lists. I've been running Saffi for almost a year now, but never wanted to post a list. I'm very anti-combo, but Altar of Dementia is a mana cheaper than Blasting Station, and, assuming no Eldrazi Titan shenans, it wins the game just as well with Saffi and lark/sun/karmic.
My deck is more smashy and casual. A lot of overlap, but I basically just use Saffi to keep a solid board and just try to get there.
Glad someone else has discovered how awesome she is.
Too many Eldrazi running around for me to consider Altar. One good thing that I haven't explored yet with Altar is using it to mill yourself, but that might just open it up to get blown out by graveyard hate, which I don't like considering it's already somewhat vulnerable to grave hate.
I decided on going back to Library over Fecundity and Top. Library helps the deck set up better than Fecundity, and it doesn't help opponents. I like Library better than Top here because it's actual card draw and I don't need to spend mana. As for Mangara, I love him in other decks but here, I don't think I've used his ability a single time. Sol Ring gives me the ability to get a turn 3 titan. That's scary for a lot of opponents.
Wild Pair seems like it could be potentially hilarious and powerful, given all the creatures going in and out of play.
There are a pretty significant number of utility guys at 2/2, like saffi, and Primeval Titan getting Woodfall Primus and/or Sun Titan seems really powerful.
any chance Loyal Retainers could be proxied/obtained, since that makes an infinite loop with saffi, letting you gain infinite life with various Essence/Soul Wardens or Asmira, Holy Avenger.
I don't want to derail the commentary on your specific deck, but I'm considering adding Mirror Entity to my list. If nothing else it seems like a legit pumping dude just to get more damage through. I'm curious if using its ability X=0 is really valuable if I'm not trying to set up a combo with, say, Acidic Slime. I figure a creature-based "sac" outlet that works with both Reveillark and Sun Titan is good. But I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around just how good it is for my purposes. Would you say it's only really worth it if you're using it a a combo piece?
It's widely known that [EDH] is very broken. Building a superdeck is quite easy. So what defines you as a player is [...] how you show restraint and creativity while still remaining a competitive player and a good sport.
the only problem with urza is that he is an oldwalker, so its abilities would be like:
+3: remove up to ten target permanents from the play
-2: win the game
-8: kick your opponents in the face, then win the game
starting loyalty: 100
Wild Pair seems like it could be potentially hilarious and powerful, given all the creatures going in and out of play.
There are a pretty significant number of utility guys at 2/2, like saffi, and Primeval Titan getting Woodfall Primus and/or Sun Titan seems really powerful.
any chance Loyal Retainers could be proxied/obtained, since that makes an infinite loop with saffi, letting you gain infinite life with various Essence/Soul Wardens or Asmira, Holy Avenger.
I hear a lot of good things about Wild Pair, though I've honestly never tried it. I'll have to test it out.
Nice combo with Loyal Retainers, but the Soul Sisters and Asmira don't seem good enough by themselves to warrant a spot.
I don't want to derail the commentary on your specific deck, but I'm considering adding Mirror Entity to my list. If nothing else it seems like a legit pumping dude just to get more damage through. I'm curious if using its ability X=0 is really valuable if I'm not trying to set up a combo with, say, Acidic Slime. I figure a creature-based "sac" outlet that works with both Reveillark and Sun Titan is good. But I'm having difficulty wrapping my head around just how good it is for my purposes. Would you say it's only really worth it if you're using it a a combo piece?
Like I said earlier, I've only actually went for the combo once in all of my games, since it takes a while to set up the combo. Mirror Entity is still good on its own though if not just as a win condition - it's not difficult to get 20+ mana with this deck, which pretty much means a lethal Entity. Tutoring for Entity and pumping my creatures is actually one of the easiest ways to win. I'd say it definitely warrants a spot even without the combo.
Introduction
This deck came about because I was looking for something to replace Jenara, Asura of War, which I got bored with because it's difficult to build around her. I wanted to play GW, but I wanted to stay away from popular generals like Captain Sisay, Gaddock Teeg, and Rhys, the Redeemed. Even though Saffi is usually associated with combo, she looked like a fun general to build around, so I quickly put together a decklist and hopped onto Cockatrice to give it a whirl.
In my first three games with it, I completely demolished my unsuspecting opponents, and I soon realized I had an extremely powerful deck with untapped potential on my hands. I will say without reservation that this is probably the strongest deck I've built or played, and it has the potential to win at any table, even against competitive generals like Sharuum, the Hedgemon or Jhoira of the Ghitu
Creatures (28)
1 Academy Rector
1 Acidic Slime
1 Adarkar Valkyrie
1 Archon of Justice
1 Deadwood Treefolk
1 Duplicant
1 Elvish Visionary
1 Eternal Dragon
1 Eternal Witness
1 Farhaven Elf
1 Fauna Shaman
1 Genesis
1 Karmic Guide
1 Mirror Entity
1 Primeval Titan
1 Reveillark
1 Riftsweeper
1 Sakura-Tribe Elder
1 Seht's Tiger
1 Seedborn Muse
1 Seedguide Ash
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Spike Weaver
1 Stonecloaker
1 Sun Titan
1 Twilight Shepherd
1 Viridian Emissary
1 Woodfall Primus
1 Aura Shards
1 Greater Good
1 Karmic Justice
1 Mana Reflection
1 Mirari's Wake
1 Pattern of Rebirth
1 Perilous Forays
1 Privileged Position
1 Sigil of the New Dawn
1 Survival of the Fittest
1 Sylvan Library
Artifacts (8)
1 Blasting Station
1 Cauldron of Souls
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Mimic Vat
1 Nim Deathmantle
1 Scrabbling Claws
1 Skullclamp
1 Sol Ring
Spells (13)
1 Cultivate
1 Chord of Calling
1 Eladamri's Call
1 Explosive Vegetation
1 Harmonize
1 Kodama's Reach
1 Genesis Wave
1 Ghostway
1 Green Sun's Zenith
1 Life from the Loam
1 Nature's Lore
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Tooth and Nail
1 Garruk Wildspeaker
Lands (38)
8 Forest
9 Plains
1 Dryad Arbor
1 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
1 Gaea's Cradle
1 High Market
1 Horizon Canopy
1 Kor Haven
1 Krosan Verge
1 Miren, the Moaning Well
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
1 Petrified Field
1 Savannah
1 Secluded Steppe
1 Strip Mine
1 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
1 Tranquil Thicket
1 Vesuva
1 Winding Canyons
1 Windswept Heath
1 Yavimaya Hollow
So now that I've talked up this deck a lot, this might get you thinking: What makes this deck so special, or even, what makes Saffi so special?
First, let's take a look at the general:
Legendary Creature - Human Scout 2/2, WG
Sacrifice Saffi Eriksdotter: When target creature is put into your graveyard from the battlefield this turn, return that card to the battlefield.
- She costs two mana, allowing her to come out extremely early, and making her extremely cheap to replay.
- Her ability doesn't require a tap, allowing you to attack with her two power. It might not seem like much, but it helps kill early undefended planeswalkers.
- You're spending two mana to save your six mana creature from removal. Efficiency is key here.
- The creature she saves still leaves to the graveyard, then re-enters the battlefield. That's right, you're still triggering all the graveyard abilities, as well as enters the battlefield abilities!
- Her ability doesn't care how the creature goes to the graveyard. Destroyed, sacrificed, or put there by a state-based effect, it doesn't matter.
Okay, so Saffi is a little stronger on closer inspection. But it still doesn't explain what makes the deck so strong. The answer can be found with her interaction with this card:
Creature - Giant 6/6, 4GG
Trample
Whenever Primeval Titan enters the battlefield or attacks, you may search your library for up to two land cards, put them onto the battlefield tapped, then shuffle your library.
The engine is actually extremely easy to set up. All you need is five plains (Non-basic plains are fine), a way to get the Titan into play, and Saffi. That's it. Prime Time does the rest of the work for you, and in fact, you don't even need five plains or Saffi in some cases. So how does he accomplish this? Once he hits the field, search up High Market and Emeria, the Sky Ruin. If you have another sacrifice outlet, sac the Titan, then bring it back with Saffi for two more plains from Titan. Saffi goes to your graveyard, only to be brought back again during your upkeep. Depending on what other cards you have, it makes it easier or harder to set up the Emeria engine. But either way, it is deceptively easy to set up. And once you have it going, you can then tutor for a toolbox of lands.
While this deck is nearly immune to most standard disruption that people pack, once people start catching on, they will put in more effort to preventing your engine from getting online. I will go over each form of disruption, its effectiveness, and how to combat it.
Creature destruction
This is by far, the weakest form of disruption against this deck, and in many cases, actually helps Saffi by giving her a free sac outlet. If players don't know already, they should learn quickly: never use this type of disruption against Saffi. It just plays right into the deck's hands.
Creature exile
This is slightly more effective than simply sending creatures to the graveyard, but only slightly. Any sort of sac outlet lets the deck save any of its most important creatures for later recursion.
Non-creature permanent destruction
Next on the list is destroying Saffi's Emeria, the Sky Ruin, Cauldron of Souls, and other important engine pieces. This will usually slow the deck down by a turn, maybe two, as they have to tutor for another recursion piece. It won't do much more than that though.
Grave hate
Simply put, this makes the deck play "fair" until you find hate for their graveyard hate. Keep your graveyard abuse to a minimum until their grave hate is gone. It's not that devastating since you can still get one ETB effect out of all your creatures. If they're trying to use grave hate after you've already ramped up though, just laugh in their face, tutor up Mirror Entity and kill the player with the grave hate. As a last resort, Riftsweeper can get back exiled cards for you.
Grave stealing
I differentiated this from grave hate because you deal with them differently, and I believe this can be a lot more dangerous than just grave hate. This includes primarily Geth, Lord of the Vault, Beacon of Unrest, Puppeteer Clique, and many other black cards. Not only does this prevent your own recursion, but it lets them get some use out of them as well, and it can shut down Saffi completely. The best option is to try to only dump creatures into your yard end of turn of the player before you to minimize opportunities, then tutor for Duplicant to take out Geth/Clique to minimize damage. If you know they're coming or they're on the field already, make sure Saffi never hits the graveyard - this is one of the few times to send her to the command zone. You could also tutor for Scrabbling Claws to exile your own cards, or exile Saffi to send her to the command Zone. If someone is playing Geth, try to make sure they never get their mana doublers, then keep Geth off the field as much as possible. Geth can hose Saffi pretty hard, but it's still very winnable as long as you hate out the Geth player first.
White disruption
I'm using this as a catch-all for any form of "lawmaking" disruption, although this isn't only inclusive in white. Examples include Aven Mindcensor, Linvala, Keeper of Silence, Iona, Shield of Emeria, Grand Arbiter Augustin IV, and Damping Matrix. Some are just minor annoyances (Grand Arbiter), others can shut down the engine hard (Mindcensor, Linvala, Damping Matrix) and must be dealt with quickly. Fortunately, they are a bit less commonly played than other forms of disruption, so it's not something the deck needs to worry too much about. One last note, Humility is basically auto-scoop, as the deck has one non-tutorable answer (Aura Shards). Thankfully, Humility is almost never played, and when it is, you can usually count on other players hating out the player that played Humility.
Notable Omissions
Eldrazi - These are typically a staple in any big mana strategy. They aren't included because they aren't needed. You can typically win with Mirror Entity, Genesis Wave, any Saffi combo, or just building massive advantage through recurring other creatures, all of which can win just as fast, if not faster. By not including them, it lowers the curve considerably and makes the deck a lot more resilient to Bribery.
Sweepers - Again, not really needed. Saffi sets the pace for what needs to be dealt with, so there isn't many things worthwhile to sweep. Anything dangerous that does come along can be usually dealt with using spot removal or fogs in the form of creatures, meaning it's tutorable as opposed to sweepers, which you won't be able to have reliably in your hand when you need it.
Avenger of Zendikar - Avenger would be amazing with Primeval Titan. The problem is, Titan + Avenger is win-more, since Titan should win the game by himself. Other than that, I like my creatures to provide more utility than beating for a lot of damage. I have Mirror Entity to finish games anyway, and it provides more utility.
Saffi/Karmic Guide + Reveillark + Mirror Entity + other creature = Obligatory Saffi combo
Saffi + ETB creature + sac outlet = Reuse ETB effects
Saffi + ETB creature + sac outlet + Cauldron of Souls = Reuse ETB effects multiple times
Cauldron of Souls + Oran-Rief, the Vastwood = Green creatures Persist for free
Seedborn Muse + sac outlet + ETB creature + Winding Canyons + Enduring Renewal/Sigil of the New Dawn= reusable ETB effects every turn
Twilight Shepherd/Eternal Witness + Pattern of Rebirth = reusable creature tutors into play
Twilight Shepherd + sac outlet + Saff = protects all of your permanents from removal
- Felidar Sovereign
- Momentous Fall
- Scrabbling Claws
- Akroma's Memorial
- Yosei, the Morning Star
+ Lightning Greaves
+ Spike Weaver
+ Enduring Renewal (Testing)
+ Kodama's Reach
+ Reya Dawnbringer
3/27
- Enduring Renewal
- Knight of the Reliquary
- Ghostway
- Oblivion Stone
- Sol Ring
-2 Plains
+ Adarkar Valkyrie
+ Akroma's Memorial
+ Blasting Station
+ Karmic Justice
+ Pattern of Rebirth
+ Petrified Field
+ Winding Canyons
3/28
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Riftstone Portal
- Sylvan Library
+ Mimic Vat
+ Vesuva
+ Fecundity
3/29
- Akroma's Memorial
- Phyrexian Furnace
- Praetor's Council
- 1 Plains
- Reya Dawnbringer
+ Ghostway
+ Nature's Lore
+ Scrabbling Claws
+ Seedguide Ash
+ 1 Forest
3/30
- Defense of the Heart
- Fecundity
- Mangara of Corondor
+ Enlightened Tutor
+ Sol Ring
+ Sylvan Library
5/07
-1 Forest
+ 1 Dryad Arbor
+ 1 Nim Deathmantle
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
No Enlightened Tutor to grab Survival?
Great card choices elsewhere. Sigil of the New Dawn is a house.
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:symw::symg: Trostani Enchantress (updated 6/5)
:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
Great idea, not sure if it's worth it but it's worth testing.
Please post with other suggestions and comments. I think this deck has a ton of untapped potential, but as I said in the original post, there are still some weaknesses that I'd like to address. A few other cards I'm considering:
Lifeline - Another potentially very abusive card.
Akroma's Memorial - Allows me to win the same turn as casting a Genesis Wave, but I'm not sure if that alone is worth a spot.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
I took out Enduring Renewal, it was redundant with Sigil of the New Dawn and while it can be amazing, it's risky if opponents have the proper hate.
I added a couple more combos, Pattern of Rebirth goes in which is amazing with Twilight Shepherd. Also added Blasting Station to combo with Sun Titan but I'm not sure if that's needed at this point. Winding Canyons has been amazing with Seedborn Muse.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Sword of Light and Shadow - Gives you another recurrence engine
Mimic Vat gives you another outlet to abuse ETB/leaves play abilities. Especially with Seedborn Muse.
Currently Playing:
Legacy: Something U/W Controlish
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Where's Mimic Vat? Man it would be such a house here. I'd run it over Reya Dawnbringer, personally. Or perhaps Akroma's Memorial. Why do you need Akroma's Memorial anyway? Am I missing a combo or something? I would think it's much better in token decks...
I'm also surprised you are rocking no wraths. You must have faith in the rest of the decks to keep things under control. Not a bad plan, but certainly a risky one, don't you think?
I'm not a fan of phyrexian furnace for grave hate. I'd rather run Tormod's Crypt and just one-shot someone's entire yard. But I don't think that has much to do with your deck, so don't take it as a criticism.
I love decks like this that abuse ETB effects to get value before creatures get involved in combat or wraths. I'm going to link a friend to this list, though I'd have to convince him to trade for a Primeval Titan...
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:symg::symr::symu: Unexpected Results.dec
Thada Adel Stax WIP
SoLS is pretty slow here. It requires 5 mana, combat step, and connecting, and it only gets me one creature to my hand once per turn. Most of my creatures don't like attacking, and my recursion is usually multiple times per turn or directly into play.
I forgot about Vat though. I'll find room for it and try it out.
Abusing ETB abilities is nice, but I'm not sure if this deck can abuse Wave that well since it doesn't seem to have that much synergy with other cards. Fecundity definitely should be tested, though I'm afraid it might help some other decks too much. I don't like Worldly Tutor for being card disadvantage, and I don't really need extra bodies from Knight-Captain. Still, good suggestions that should warrant testing.
Nice find, and I definitely would love to abuse it with Twilight Shepherd. Other than that though, it doesn't really seem to have much utility since there are only 3 persist cards in the whole deck, and Oran-Rief, the Vastwood is easier to search out and fits better in the deck.
I actually added Valkyrie in my last update, but I forgot to include it in the decklist. It should be there now.
I've certainly been getting complaints about this deck now. Most people say that it's one of the coolest decks they've seen, but they don't like playing against it because of how powerful it is. I'm always a casual player at heart, so I'll still put it away if enough people complain
Yeah, I missed Mimic Vat. Reya Dawnbringer still requires some testing, she hasn't really mattered so far but I haven't really drawn her. Akroma's Memorial is in here almost solely to let me win the turn I play Genesis Wave. I'm still on the fence about it, but so far it's proven to be strong.
I originally had Oblivion Stone but it was always a dead draw. I still have tutorable removal in Woodfall Primus, Archon of Justice, Acidic Slime, Duplicant, and Mangara of Corondor, all of which I can abuse to hell. One game, I was getting 2-3 Duplicant triggers per opponent's turn.
The problem is that I can't really tutor for Crypt/Furnace, so I'd rather have the one that "cycles". I've been skimping on graveyard hate, but so far, it hasn't been a problem because this deck tends to abuse the graveyard better than other decks anyway.
The strategy is certainly extremely powerful. I've run several iterations such as Bant flickering/bouncing effects or Hazazon Slide, but Saffi seems to be stronger as it's much faster, more consistent and harder to disrupt, though it's more susceptible to grave hate.
Changes:
- Elspeth, Knight-Errant
- Riftstone Portal
+ Mimic Vat
+ Vesuva
Also going to try replacing Sylvan Library with Fecundity and see how that goes.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Wave is much better than it appears on paper. Abusing ETB abilities is just a start, it also lets you protect your own creatures and wave out opposing ones. I really recommend you try this card out for awhile especially since you are on Cockatrice so you don't actually need to acquire one. Worldly Tutor can be card disadvantage but I imagine your main 2 targets will be Primeval Titan and Reveillark which will either negate the disadvantage or turn it into card advantage. Enlightened Tutor also falls in this category, if you are worried about losing a card just go get Skullclamp.
The main thing about Worldly/Enlightened tutor isn't just that they're card disadvantage, it's that I'm not so sure I need them right now. The deck runs so many creature tutors as is, and I haven't really needed any enchantment/artifact enough for E-Tutor. I guess tutoring for Clamp might make it good enough though, I'll try to test it out.
Made some more changes.
- Phyrexian Furnace
- Praetor's Council
- 1 Plains
- Reya Dawnbringer
+ Ghostway
+ Nature's Lore
+ Scrabbling Claws
+ Seedguide Ash
+ 1 Forest
Phyrexian Furnace is replaced by Scrabbling Claws. The reason? I'm starting to run into a ton of black players trying to steal my graveyard, including Saffi. Claws has slightly better utility in this regard by letting me exile Saffi and put her in the command zone. I've also run into Timetwister with Saffi in the yard, which isn't fun for me.
Slightly upped the forest count since I need green mana to ramp early. I came into a couple situations where I was short green. Not good. Also tried to lower the mana curve significantly.
Honestly I feel that Saffi can definitely be considered tier one. She has the ability to win on just about any competitive table, through significant hate. I've personally been experiencing a LOT more hate on Cockatrice now, but the deck is still winning.
I think the deck could use some streamlining though. I'm considering more emphasis on combos and take out some redunant cards, since really all the deck wants to do is resolve a Primeval Titan and abuse him more than any other deck can and just win from there. I also feel guilty about running so much ramp without any creature bigger than 6 cmc except for Woodfall Primus, but so far, it hasn't been a problem and I like that people can't really get anything worthwhile by Briberying me.
Edit: I think I'm going to take a break from playing this deck online for a while. People don't enjoy playing against it, and I've been getting quite a few ragequits now. I'd still like to improve upon it though, I just probably won't spend as much time working on it. Any more suggestions are still welcome though.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
Sun Titan, Saffi Eriksdotter, Phyrexian Altar = infinte mana.
Funny i was running all three in the same deck but i just didn't see it till now
I encourage you to do the same. Instead of FNM try Friday Night Something Spontaneous. Instead of thousands of hours and dollars on plastic imagine it with a significant other or friends sharing something meaningful. I randomly typed a new password, so bon voyage itches i encourage you to follow suit! Cheers
Aluren/Curio definitely should be tested, and it might warrant adding Enduring Renewal, though this will definitely give it more of a combo feel to it.
Visionary can attack (Mirror Entity) and it can be Clamped. And honestly, being a better blocker matters little when most of your creatures want to find their way into your graveyard anyway.
Made an update about the deck's gameplan. I might try to make a much more interactive version that's more fun to play against. It kind of figures that a deck like this comes along in which its sole purpose is to abuse Primeval Titan as much as it can.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
EDIT: Also you might want to look into how useful Rings of Brighthearth might be able to be in this deck. I could see saffi being able to target 2 creatures almost good enough on its own to be considered for the deck. Rings also works sooooo amazingly with Survival of the Fittest effects as you discard one creature and tutor up two :P.
EDIT 2: No Sensei's Divining Top or similar effects (Sylvan Library, Scroll Rack, Mirri's Guile) in the decklist. I find this rather puzzeling as these are often staples of EDH. I also noticed that there is no Sol Ring in the list which I might be able to overlook as you are still ramping rather quickly through land ramp. Plus your general doesn't cost much.
EDIT 3: I could see Avenger of Zendikar being an amazing finisher for you considering your deck is all about using recursion and hardening your threats using your general. Avenger with some backup protection would be absolutely nuts. You can also abuse him and double up his tokens at will with a sac outlet. His tokens are so useful with a skullclamp in play as well.
EDIT 4: Sorry about all of the updates but I keep looking at your list and thinking of things :P. I was a bit curious as to how useful Seedborn Muse has been so far. I don't see a lot of mana sinks / instant spells that the deck really looks like it would use. I could see this being cut unless it has some hidden tec that I am not seeing. By all means if it has been panning out keep it. I just thought you might want to look it over and assess how useful it has been / can be.
EDIT 5: I love the fact that Viridian Emissary is a 2 mana drop but hate how you cannot control when he ramps you a land. It is doubtful that anyone will let you kill him off before turn 4 in a multiplayer game. I think you might want to consider Farhaven Elf for this spot instead as it costs one more mana but ramps on entry every time.
One other note I wanted to make was that as amazing as Mirari's Wake is in any G/W deck, it also makes it difficult to execute the lark combo as you can no longer use Mirror Entity as your sac outlet. You run other sac outlets in here so it might not be an issue but I just wanted to make you aware of this problem for the future. It is unlikely to happen but it will suck if it does.
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[Modern] Allies
This is precisely how Momir Vig, Simic Visionary combo decks work. Vig can tutor up the creatures you want for Aluren quite easily and has the card draw to make it work. Sure, Saffi and other GW/Bant decks can try it and it would probably be successful, but Vig is so good at it it's almost silly to try it with anyone else and expect better results.
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Thada Adel Stax WIP
It's not that Jenara didn't work out for me, she was really strong. I just got bored with her considering she's not really a "build around me" general. Alas, Elder doesn't actually ramp making him a little slow in this deck.
I love the idea of using Rings with Saffi, but the problem is I have very little other targets for it.
Yep, no Top or Sol Ring. I'm sure I could fit them in somewhere, but I just never needed it. I could probably try a little harder to fit them in. I did have Sylvan Library in for a while but it never mattered.
Avenger is something I've tried to fit in on several occasions and I love how well it can take advantage of Primeval Titan, but the reason it hasn't made the cut is it doesn't provide the same utility as any of my other creatures.
Seedborn Muse pretty much wins me the game with Primeval Titan out. One of my favorite plays is Tooth and Nail for Muse and Titan, letting me get High Market and a sac outlet immediately. With Sigil of the New Dawn, I can search out Winding Canyons and start abusing ETB abilities several times per opponent's turn. Basically with any kind of recursion actually, it allows me to abuse ETB abilities way more than before. Also, what makes Muse so good is that it is one of the reasons the deck can face 3vs1 scenarios and still win handily.
I am running Farhaven Elf already. One good thing about Emissary is it provides an early rattlesnake, since no one wants to attack into it.
In the 15 or so games I've played, I've only comboed out with Mirror Entity once. It's definitely something I need to keep in mind though.
Makes sense. I could see how it would be a bit clunky in this deck.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
What are your thoughts on -
Deadwood Treefolk. Everyone says how great it is with Saffi, it could be that I've almost never drawn him but he's never made a difference for me.
Mangara of Corondor. I love Mangara but he's pretty slow in this deck.
Blasting Station. Is there a better sac outlet?
Also, should I try to fit in Dryad Arbor?
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
My deck is more smashy and casual. A lot of overlap, but I basically just use Saffi to keep a solid board and just try to get there.
Glad someone else has discovered how awesome she is.
Current changes:
- Defense of the Heart
- Fecundity
- Mangara of Corondor
+ Enlightened Tutor
+ Sol Ring
+ Sylvan Library
I decided on going back to Library over Fecundity and Top. Library helps the deck set up better than Fecundity, and it doesn't help opponents. I like Library better than Top here because it's actual card draw and I don't need to spend mana. As for Mangara, I love him in other decks but here, I don't think I've used his ability a single time. Sol Ring gives me the ability to get a turn 3 titan. That's scary for a lot of opponents.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W
There are a pretty significant number of utility guys at 2/2, like saffi, and Primeval Titan getting Woodfall Primus and/or Sun Titan seems really powerful.
any chance Loyal Retainers could be proxied/obtained, since that makes an infinite loop with saffi, letting you gain infinite life with various Essence/Soul Wardens or Asmira, Holy Avenger.
Nice combo with Loyal Retainers, but the Soul Sisters and Asmira don't seem good enough by themselves to warrant a spot.
Like I said earlier, I've only actually went for the combo once in all of my games, since it takes a while to set up the combo. Mirror Entity is still good on its own though if not just as a win condition - it's not difficult to get 20+ mana with this deck, which pretty much means a lethal Entity. Tutoring for Entity and pumping my creatures is actually one of the easiest ways to win. I'd say it definitely warrants a spot even without the combo.
Commander/EDH:
WU Hanna, Ship's Navigator WU
GW Saffi Eriksdotter GW
BW Selenia, Dark Angel BW
W Heliod, God of Sun W
Retired:
Jenara, Asura of War Thada Adel, Acquisitor Jaya Ballard, Task Mage Lin Sivvi, Defiant Hero Lyzolda, the Blood Witch Akroma, Angel of Wrath Nath of the Gilt-Leaf Tajic, Blade of the Legion Selvala, Explorer Returned Maga, Traitor to Mortals
Tiny Leaders:
W Mangara of Corondor W