Snappers are amazing in the mirror match (which is quite a draw-go match without them,) as well as rogue decks like Pyromancer.
What's everyones thoughts on lists that include Liliana Vess? She certainly provides some powerful effects and utilities.
Other thing I'm curious about is sideboard choices...namely Dispel and Surgical Extraction. Both are pretty narrow, but you simply can't play around Dispel (it's pretty much for counter wars,) and Surgical Extraction I could see leading to mistakes when sideboarding (bringing it in too often,) but it wrecks the mirror.
Private Mod Note
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GG"Leave but a shred of root and it will return, bursting with vigor."GG
Snapper is great against control as well since there is very little they can do about him... Placing presure against a late game deck like UB control is a way to split thier focus up
It forces them to be more proactive in dealing with the threat you have on the field and at the same time leave mana open to deal with the combo. I really like this card, can't beleive I forgot about old snappy.
Against agro he is another wall just like Spellskite but it can potentially kill things...
This is probably pretty close to the list I'm eventually going to run. One major tweak I'll probably make though is to replace the Snappers in the sideboard with Ratchet Bombs as I'll see a lot of Kuldotha/Tempered Steel and very few JTMS/Caw-Blade/Valakut at my FNM.
Glad to see this deck make it here. Although, I do think it should be listed under U/R/x as I think RUG and U/R versions will become viable with tweaking.
@elvishchampionforever
I would go for See Beyond for your build... Your Build looks like it wants to combo off ASAP with little or no way to control the game.
Alt Win Cons should be in SB boarded againsts deck sthat play Memoricide
@elvishchampionforever
I would go for See Beyond for your build... Your Build looks like it wants to combo off ASAP with little or no way to control the game.
Alt Win Cons should be in SB boarded againsts deck sthat play Memoricide
I had See Beyond earlier, but I figured I needed just that - a way to control the game. Adding some control, along with my 7 discard spells, should help with that.
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Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
@Elvish...I think I would, -1 Into The Roil, +1 Duress, +2 Go For The Throat.
I have to say it, though...NO MANA LEAK!?
If you go for a wincon...I think that Calcite Snapper is way good, but a 6-drop 2-hitter-quitter may be more what you're looking for. You don't run Creeping Tar Pit (!) even, so you definately need something. I think Consecrated Sphinx or Frost Titan are your options. They dodge every possible hate card. Perhaps 1 of each is in order. (When I say hate, I mean everything they would board against your combo, since Inferno is cold to both Flashfreeze and Celestial Purge, and Grave can be Purged, GFTT, etc.) Wurmcoil is the third option, imo. I could even see 1 of each of those 3, as it gives you considerable resilience to Surgical Extraction, which literally ends the game against you.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
GG"Leave but a shred of root and it will return, bursting with vigor."GG
Snappers are amazing in the mirror match (which is quite a draw-go match without them,) as well as rogue decks like Pyromancer.
What's everyones thoughts on lists that include Liliana Vess? She certainly provides some powerful effects and utilities.
Other thing I'm curious about is sideboard choices...namely Dispel and Surgical Extraction. Both are pretty narrow, but you simply can't play around Dispel (it's pretty much for counter wars,) and Surgical Extraction I could see leading to mistakes when sideboarding (bringing it in too often,) but it wrecks the mirror.
I have to say that the only reason I'm play Extraction in my board is for mirrors. It almost an auto win if you can Inquisition/Duress a combo piece and then Extraction it. It's also not bad against Pyromancers, and it's pretty much amazing against Vengevine decks if that wasn't obvious lol. I'm currently testing John Cuvelier's 75 and I'm liking it, but I want to have a Liliana in the deck pretty bad.
Shouldn't this thread be titled UR(b) Splinter Twin?
UR versions of the deck are just as viable.
Well since the only tournament with New Phyrexia had 3 Grixis and 1 RUG I say that UR is currently not "just as viable"
on that note I have to protest against NOT having Gitaxian Probe in this deck. The card is just phenominal and being able to go Turn 4 Probe, see you have no countermagic, Splinter Twin is just so so so nice. People will always show Mana Leak because they have to against this deck and playing Probe is insurance.
Heres my Grixis list I'll be running this evening at a shop. My sideboard is a little shaky atm, so not positive as to what I want to board. I know I will have some Pyroclasm, Spell Pierce and a couple Go for the Throats in there somewhere.
Thinking about dropping 1 Halimar for a Basic Island or Mountain as to not have too many CiPT lands. Then, being I don't have any Creeping Tar Pits, I replaced them with the Lavaclaws. I'm actually ok with this as it gives me a few more Red sources to combat Tec Edges. Though, a 3/2 Unblockable is obviously better in the Jace situation, not many Jaces where I play at on Mondays. Let me know what you think and I will try and post results later.
Well since the only tournament with New Phyrexia had 3 Grixis and 1 RUG I say that UR is currently not "just as viable"
on that note I have to protest against NOT having Gitaxian Probe in this deck. The card is just phenominal and being able to go Turn 4 Probe, see you have no countermagic, Splinter Twin is just so so so nice. People will always show Mana Leak because they have to against this deck and playing Probe is insurance.
One tournament is not evidence of UR not being viable. All of the NPH trials on Magic-League had the UR version of the deck in the top 8. Usually it was sitting in the top spots.
I also gotta admit, I love the RUG version of this deck. Looks like a blast to play.
Has anyone tried Noxious Revival in this deck? Returning a combo piece or putting worthless draws on top of your opponents library seem very good in this deck.
I honestly think if people had thought to sideboard Act of Aggression, this deck wouldn't have made top anything. You flash Exarch in EOT, I'm expecting that, so I've got 3 mana open. You play Splinter Twin, targeting Exarch. In response, I pay 4 life and tap 3 to play Act on Exarch, my spell resolves, I take the creature, your spell resolves, I tap and untap it to make a billion tokens of it, then untap a land the last time. You end your turn and get Exarch back tapped. I swing for a billion on my turn. Good Game!
I honestly think if people had thought to sideboard Act of Aggression, this deck wouldn't have made top anything. You flash Exarch in EOT, I'm expecting that, so I've got 3 mana open. You play Splinter Twin, targeting Exarch. In response, I pay 4 life and tap 3 to play Act on Exarch, my spell resolves, I take the creature, your spell resolves, I tap and untap it to make a billion tokens of it, then untap a land the last time. You end your turn and get Exarch back tapped. I swing for a billion on my turn. Good Game!
Thats great, but if you make the tokens before his end of turn, they will be gone when you untap.
hmm, tis true, looking at the text of Twin, because they get exiled. So knowing that now, I would take the Exarch and wait until he declares end of turn to do it; not entirely sure how the ruling would be, because the player would obviously call a judge, but I wouldn't be generating the tokens until his end step, so it wouldn't reach the beginning of the next end step until the end of MY turn, so it should work.
Act of Aggression only seems to stall the deck a turn unless it's paired with another form of hate (tumble magnet maybe). If you cast it on my turn after Splinter Twin resolves you can make a million blockers but lose them at the end of turn. If you cast it at the beginning of your turn after Splinter Twin resolves WHY AREN'T YOU DEAD ALREADY? So, basically Act requires two pieces of hate or delays the combo by a turn.
I'm taking a U/R list to a fairly large FNM this week. It's usually 35+ people so I'm hoping for a big turn out to put the deck through the gauntlet. My only regret is I'll be missing any Jace's for this week unless someone wants to let me borrow a few.
People may of played Act, but the thing is, the deck is not going to go off unless the cost is clear or we have counter magic. The reason Grixis is strong is because it has the ability to discard your answers. Act works sure, but if you sitting on 3 open mana and we don't already know whats in your hand, then we're not going to try and combo. It might work against a poor player, but if you play the deck tightly, it shouldn't be a problem.
People may of played Act, but the thing is, the deck is not going to go off unless the cost is clear or we have counter magic. The reason Grixis is strong is because it has the ability to discard your answers. Act works sure, but if you sitting on 3 open mana and we don't already know whats in your hand, then we're not going to try and combo. It might work against a poor player, but if you play the deck tightly, it shouldn't be a problem.
Here's my question as I haven't spent a lot of time with the Grixis build: Does it work without JTMS? I'm not against getting him but I won't have him in time for FNM this week. So, I'm wondering if it's better to run Grixis without him for a week or to run U/R which I'm more comfortable with and runs a bit better (in my opinion) without him?
I'm not expecting to see much hate at all. I'm probably one of the only ones at the shop that will be bringing this deck and most people who don't read message boards won't be prepared for it (which most of the shop doesn't).
Budget discussion is not permitted. That involves all forms of card availability.
1 Consecrated Sphinx
4 Deceiver Exarch
4 Splinter Twin
2 Dismember
2 Go for the Throat
2 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
4 Island
2 Mountain
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
2 Halimar Depths
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Calcite Snapper
1 Consecrated Sphinx
2 Combust
2 Shatter
3 Twisted Image
3 Pyroclasm
I was wondering that when reading the decklist myself... my only thought was against vampires as a wall of sorts.
I'm also intrigued by the sphinx. I think I like it.
Vorel of the Hull Clade
Reki, the History of Kamigawa (MTGO)
Lavinia of the Tenth (MTGO)
What's everyones thoughts on lists that include Liliana Vess? She certainly provides some powerful effects and utilities.
Other thing I'm curious about is sideboard choices...namely Dispel and Surgical Extraction. Both are pretty narrow, but you simply can't play around Dispel (it's pretty much for counter wars,) and Surgical Extraction I could see leading to mistakes when sideboarding (bringing it in too often,) but it wrecks the mirror.
It forces them to be more proactive in dealing with the threat you have on the field and at the same time leave mana open to deal with the combo. I really like this card, can't beleive I forgot about old snappy.
Against agro he is another wall just like Spellskite but it can potentially kill things...
T2
Commander
WGCaptain SisayWG
Glad to see this deck make it here. Although, I do think it should be listed under U/R/x as I think RUG and U/R versions will become viable with tweaking.
Manaless Dredge
Standard:
Jund Birthing Pod Toolbox
4 Deciever Exarch
4 Splinter Twin
Protection
3 Spellskite
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Into the Roil
3 Duress
Draw
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
PW
2 Jace Beleren
2 Jace the Mind Sculptor
Land
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Island
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
2 Drowned Catacomb
1 Dragonskull Summit
2 Terramorphic Expanse
1 Spellskite
3 Go For the Throat
3 Pyroclasm
3 Spell Pierce
3 Shatter
2 Surgical Extraction
Currently I have two spots open in the main. Cards I am considering for that spot:
See Beyond
Mana Leak
Go For the Throat (If I were to add GFtT, I would take two out of the SB and add 2 Doom Blade)
Dismember (IMO GFtT is better)
Lightning Bolt (See above)
Grave Titan, Inferno Titan, Consecrated Sphinx, or another alternate wincon, mainly for if we get Memoricide/Surgical Extractioned.
Please give me feedback!
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
I would go for See Beyond for your build... Your Build looks like it wants to combo off ASAP with little or no way to control the game.
Alt Win Cons should be in SB boarded againsts deck sthat play Memoricide
T2
Commander
WGCaptain SisayWG
I had See Beyond earlier, but I figured I needed just that - a way to control the game. Adding some control, along with my 7 discard spells, should help with that.
Thanks to SushiOtter at Hakai Studios for the sig. Check them out!
Standard:
GGGRDungrove Wolf RunGGGR
Modern:
URExarchMite KikiTwinUR
EDH:
GGGOmnathGGG
WWWDarienWWW
GGGEzuriGGG
I have to say it, though...NO MANA LEAK!?
If you go for a wincon...I think that Calcite Snapper is way good, but a 6-drop 2-hitter-quitter may be more what you're looking for. You don't run Creeping Tar Pit (!) even, so you definately need something. I think Consecrated Sphinx or Frost Titan are your options. They dodge every possible hate card. Perhaps 1 of each is in order. (When I say hate, I mean everything they would board against your combo, since Inferno is cold to both Flashfreeze and Celestial Purge, and Grave can be Purged, GFTT, etc.) Wurmcoil is the third option, imo. I could even see 1 of each of those 3, as it gives you considerable resilience to Surgical Extraction, which literally ends the game against you.
I have to say that the only reason I'm play Extraction in my board is for mirrors. It almost an auto win if you can Inquisition/Duress a combo piece and then Extraction it. It's also not bad against Pyromancers, and it's pretty much amazing against Vengevine decks if that wasn't obvious lol. I'm currently testing John Cuvelier's 75 and I'm liking it, but I want to have a Liliana in the deck pretty bad.
Currently playing
Standard
:symwg::symbr:Dark Naya:symrb::symgw:
1st place GPT Seattle
1st place GPT Anaheim
4 Deceiver Exarch
1 Grave Titan
Enchantments 4
4 Splinter twin
Instant 7
2 Dismember
2 Into the roil
3 Mana Leak
Planeswalkers 4
3 Jace Beleren
1 Jace, The mind Sculptor
3 Duress
4 Gitaxian probe
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
Basic Lands 6
4 Island
3 Mountain
Lands18
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Creeping Tar Pit
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Dragonskull Summit
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Scalding Tarn
3 Pyroclasm
2 Go for the throat
2 Ratchet bomb
4 Mental misstep
1 Twisted Image
Edit 1: -1 duress, -1 island, + 2 diabolic tutor
Edit 2: +1 duress, +1 island, -2 diabolic tutor
sideboard change
+2 Ratchet bomb
+4 Mental misstep
+1 Twisted Image
Valadeya
UR versions of the deck are just as viable.
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Well since the only tournament with New Phyrexia had 3 Grixis and 1 RUG I say that UR is currently not "just as viable"
on that note I have to protest against NOT having Gitaxian Probe in this deck. The card is just phenominal and being able to go Turn 4 Probe, see you have no countermagic, Splinter Twin is just so so so nice. People will always show Mana Leak because they have to against this deck and playing Probe is insurance.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
Trades
UBRTezzUBR
UMono-Blue-ControlU
RUGRiku of Two ReflectionsRUG
4 Splinter Twin
3 Spellskite
3 Duress
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Preordain
4 Gitaxian Probe
3 Into the Roil
4 Mana Leak
3 Jace Beleren
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
3 Halimar Depths
4 Island
2 Mountain
Thinking about dropping 1 Halimar for a Basic Island or Mountain as to not have too many CiPT lands. Then, being I don't have any Creeping Tar Pits, I replaced them with the Lavaclaws. I'm actually ok with this as it gives me a few more Red sources to combat Tec Edges. Though, a 3/2 Unblockable is obviously better in the Jace situation, not many Jaces where I play at on Mondays. Let me know what you think and I will try and post results later.
One tournament is not evidence of UR not being viable. All of the NPH trials on Magic-League had the UR version of the deck in the top 8. Usually it was sitting in the top spots.
I also gotta admit, I love the RUG version of this deck. Looks like a blast to play.
▲
▲ ▲
Thats great, but if you make the tokens before his end of turn, they will be gone when you untap.
I'm taking a U/R list to a fairly large FNM this week. It's usually 35+ people so I'm hoping for a big turn out to put the deck through the gauntlet. My only regret is I'll be missing any Jace's for this week unless someone wants to let me borrow a few.
Manaless Dredge
Standard:
Jund Birthing Pod Toolbox
Here's my question as I haven't spent a lot of time with the Grixis build: Does it work without JTMS? I'm not against getting him but I won't have him in time for FNM this week. So, I'm wondering if it's better to run Grixis without him for a week or to run U/R which I'm more comfortable with and runs a bit better (in my opinion) without him?
I'm not expecting to see much hate at all. I'm probably one of the only ones at the shop that will be bringing this deck and most people who don't read message boards won't be prepared for it (which most of the shop doesn't).
Budget discussion is not permitted. That involves all forms of card availability.
Manaless Dredge
Standard:
Jund Birthing Pod Toolbox