I have rehauled this deck completely, and I think this will probably be its final form, give or take a card or two as I acquire them. I have taken out some of the explosiveness in exchange for a little more resilience and flexibility. I've found that I would much prefer a deck that I can enjoy across several games over an explosive combo that results in the same game over and over, so here is Ghave, Guru of Swarms MK II. I've also turned it into a kind of primer for the deck as well.
So, what is this deck looking to do? Early on it wants to ramp a little and run defense until it has a safe environment to bring in Ghave. I don't like to summon him until I have enough mana to leave at least a few saprolings behind if he bites it. It can play slow to overhwlem with numbers, but it also has a few combos/synergies that can end the game on the spot. Most notable is Mortician Beetle and Ashnod's Altar. With Ghave out, you get infinite mana, saprolings and +1/+1 counters. Combined with other cards in the deck, this can also net you infinite cards, tap down infinite creatures, gain infinite life, deliver infinite edicts and so on.
The biggest strategy to keep in mind with this deck is not to overextend. As soon as you have any sort of self-sustaining board state, you can afford to just continue with the board state while filling your hand. What counts as a self-sustaining board state? This is any state where you have a renewable source of counters and/or tokens, which you can use to continually grow your board. This is the strength of Ghave as a General.
It is painfully easy with this deck to set up this kind of a board and then you can just sit back. Save your tutors. There are alot of good cards in the deck, and with the number of tutors reduced from previous incarnations, they are best saved until you need a silver bullet.
I'll go over the card choices by category.
DRAW ENGINES
Argothian Enchantress, Mesa Enchantress, Verduran Enchantress - The deck runs alot of enchantments, so these ladies should be worth at least a card or two each, if not more. Argothian is the best of course, being cheaper and shrouded, but they're all good. Kor Spiritdancer gets a pass because none of the enchantments are auras.
Fecundity, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena - The card drawing enchantments give the deck alot of gas. Fecundity can be risky, since it benefits my opponents too, so I don't tend to drop it until I untap with Ghave in play and know I will get the most out of it. Necro and Arena are pretty standard, well known engines. If I were adapting to the French banlist, I would happily replace necropotence with Greed.
Harmonize, Horizon Canopy, Mentor of the Meek, Skullclamp - The rest of the draw pieces are pretty obvious. Harmonize is the best one shot refill in my colours, Canopy is a one-shot, but it can be tutored for and then pump up the KotR. Mentor of the Meek and Skullclamp are both total powerhouses in this deck.
TUTORS
Academy Rector, Captain Sisay, Knight of the Reliquary, Ranger of Eos - Rector obviously finds any enchantment I need, and is really easy to get killed whenever I need it. Sisay is new, but she can get any of a half dozen or so utility cards and combo pieces. Ranger gets manadorks, soul sisters, Mikaeus and most importantly, the Mortician Beetle itself.
Congregation at Dawn, Crop Rotation, Enlightened Tutor, Marsh Flats, Verdant Catacombs, Worldly Tutor - The card type tutors for the deck. I have cut back on the quantity of tutors in the deck to give more variety in play. Congregation is amazing for the number of creatures it finds, if less explosive without any Cascade creatures to abuse it with. Enlightened Tutor's first target is pretty situational, but most often I use it to find the Skullclamp. I count the fetchlands here because they don't actually produce mana (not running Urborg in this version), so they really are just more tutors. And Worldly doens't really need explanation. It finds creatures. It gets the most value by finding another tutoring creautre like Ranger of Eos or Captain Sisay, or by finding the last piece of a combo, like Kitchen Finks or Juniper Order Ranger. I wouldn't recommend getting any legend with it other than Sisay, since you'd get better value finding Sisay and letting her find the other card(s) you need. Crop Rotation usually wants to find either Phyrexian Tower, Mystifying Maze or Serra's Sanctum, depending on your current board.
Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Liliana Vess - Sometimes, you just need any card from your deck, and these guys fit the bill. Demonic is the best ever. Diabolic is in over Beseech the Queen or Demonic Collusion for strictly cosmetic reasons (Japanese foil), so if you're building this deck or something like it, you could easily replace it with one of those two; Beseech for being cheaper, Collusion for its reusability. Liliana Vess has become one of my favourite Planeswalkers in EDH. She isn't overtly powerful enough to draw removal in most games, and she gives me two Vampiric Tutors at the very least, often much more. I've never used her ultimate ability, so I classify her as a tutor in this deck.
CONTROL
Beast Within, Maelstrom Pulse, Oblivion Ring, Vindicate - Space is at a premium in the deck, so I have made sure that what spot removal I have is broad in scope. These four cards are capable of dealing with any permanent-based problem on the field. The only downside is that other than Beast Within, it's all sorcery speed. But we have other tricks up our sleeves.
Aura Shards, Glare of Subdual, Grave Pact - Combined with Gahve's ability or other sacrifice outlets, these cards give us an instant-speed removal suite that just won't go away. Thank god Aura Shards is a may....
Bojuka Bog, Strip Mine - They're tutorable by KotR, and handy against a variety of decks. For philosophical reasons I have not complimented my Strip Mine with either Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam because I hate LD strategies. If you wanted to add them, you'd find them very useful. Crucible is also good with Horizon Canopy and the Fetchlands above, I left it out because personally, I can make those kinds of philosophical decisions in deck construction, but during play I tend to always make the strong play. I left it out to avoid them temptation...
Mindwarper - This guy is an experiment. I stumbled across him sorting at my LGS and I really like what he could do for me. A reusable (if somewhat mana-intensive) way to make sure my spells resolve? Yes please. I took out Persecute to make room for him, so hopefully it will pan out.
Plow Under - People know I love this card. Call Mr Plow, that's my name, that name again is Mr. Plow. Also, Azusa decks run rampant around here, so it helps to be able to catch up to them a little.
Wrath of God - True, this can hurt me too, but sometimes, just sometimes, it has to be done. I run the one Wrath effect hoping I can tutor it up when I need it. Besides, if any deck recovers from a wrath, it's the fungus king...
DEFENSE
Circle of Despair, Fanatical Devotion, Ghostly Prison, Leyline of Sanctity - Circle of Despair gives me ever Circle of Protection and ward for the low low price of creatures, which Ghave kinda makes in abundance. Voltrons have always been the bane of this deck, so against someone like Uril or Rafiq, I try to get this on the field ASAP. Fanatical Devotion is amazing, letting the little guys keep the big guys in the game. Ghostly Prison is an EDH staple and needs to explanation, while Leyline protects me from discard, edicts and most importantly (for me anyway) Bribery and co.
Essence Warden, Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant - The Soul Sisters make up for life lost to things like Necropotence and Phyrexian Arena, while also letting me recover from alpha strikes.
Kitchen Finks, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Saffi Eriksdotter - Finks give life gain and have trouble staying dead, especially with Melira out. Melira also protects from Infect, which is still ridiculous in EDH. Saffi protects whoever she needs to, as she always does.
Kor Haven, Mystifying Maze, Pendelhaven, Reliquary Tower, Sejiri Steppe - Haven and Maze seem on the surface to be strictly worse than Maze of Ith, but Haven can be tutored up with both KotR AND Sisay, while Maze gets rid of tokens permanently and returns stolen creatures to their owners, so I actually prefer them for the time being. Pendelhaven is tutorable with Sisay and helps protect Soul Sisters and such, while having zero drawback as a mana producing land (besides being nonbasic). Steppe is mainly to allow it to be tutored up by KotR to protect from removal. The deck rarely draws enough for the Reliquary Tower to be necessary for that, but there are a lot of blue decks out there with a certain probing praetor....
TOKENS/COUNTERS
Ajani Goldmane, Gavony Township, Juniper Order Ranger, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Mortician Beetle, Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, Scavenging Ooze - These guys are probably the most important parts of the deck. In my experience with him, what Ghave needs most is a souce of +1/+1 counters, even moreso than a source of creature tokens, as fuel to make him work, and these are the best I have found because they are a continuing source, rather than a one shot deal. Ajani's life gain is really just used to keep his loyalty up so he can keep adding more counters on. Juniper Order Ranger has the added bonus of comboing with Kitchen Finks much the same way that Melira does. Mortician Beetle synergizes perfectly with Ghave, and is part of the infinite combo with Ashnod's altar. Scavening Ooze doubles as pinpoint graveyard hate, which is always useful.
Awakening Zone, Parallel Lives, Sacred Mesa, Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree - These are my token-makers. Awakenin Zone doubles as mana acceleration, which is very sweet. Sacred Mesa gives me tokens at instant-speed. Mesa's "drawback" is turned to your advantage with Grave Pact. With just those two cards in play, you have a decent engine with which to overwhelm an opponent. Parallel Lives is a poor man's Doubling Season and could stand to be upgraded, though it does come down a little faster, which means if I am curving properly it plays out the turn before Ghave arrives to abuse it.
MANA ACCELERATION
Ashnod's Altar, Golgari Signet, Orzhov Signet, Selesnya Signet, Sol Ring - These are my mana rocks. Ashnod's is pretty versatile in this deck, strong on its own, and able to go infinite with Mortician Beetle. The signets are just awesome. Sol Ring is controversial for 1 on 1 I know. I'll drop it when I find others locally who want to play french ban list, probably for just a basic land.
Cultivate, Kodama's Reach - Who says green has trouble with card advantage? First cards in any deck. The only time I cut these two is if I choose a General without green....
Phyrexian Tower, Serra's Sanctum, Temple of the False God - Pretty commonly seen cards. Tower and Sanctum are both tutorable with Sisay. Sanctum is a new acquisition and it may not work out. I have alot of enchantments, but possibly not quite enough to guarantee that I will always get mana out of it.
MISC
Abundance - Few cards smooth out your game like this enchantment.
Auramancer - I have a lot of enchantments, which means I am going to lose some of them. It's nice to get them back. Especially since if it's in the bin, it's probably because it was doing something good for me.
Crime//Punishment - This is just a really versatile card. Near-deeds on one side, Beacon of Unrest on the other. Awesome card, I've loved it since Dissension.
Eternal Witness - Another autinclude for me in green decks. Not degenerate in this one as I don't use anything to blink or recur her, she'll just do something good every game.
Garruk Relentless - I was underwhelmed when he was spoiled, but every time I play this guy he gets better and better. Makes two different types of tokens, tutors for creatures, takes out utility dorks. His ultimate isn't ideal in a deck with such a low creature count, but if you have enough creautres attacking, even 2 or 3 in the bin is still an Overrun.
Primal Command, Profane Command - My two favourite commands. I call them misc because they do too many things to be classified under just one category. Don't leave home without them. I would run Austere Command, but for the effects it generates, I like more precision.
Sterling Grove - Have I mentioned I used alot of enchantments? Well, this protects the ones I have, or finds the ones I need.
LANDS
Basic Lands are basic building blocks of any deck.
Command Tower is a no brainer Murmuring Bosk is like Command Tower number two, except it can also be fetched. Caves of Koilos, Llanowar Wastes - Painlands aren't the best, but they're alright, and enemy colours need more fixing than allied generally. Godless Shrine, Overgrown Tomb, Temple Garden - Shocklands may not be original duals, but they're the next best thing. If you have revised duals, use them. Otherwise, these guys are great. Isolated Chapel, Sunpetal Grove, Woodland Cemetery - These cycles don't get a lot of love, but if you're running enough lands with basic types, they're really good. No long term consequences like painlands.
OTHER CARDS CONSIDERED BUT NOT INCLUDED
The Titans - Sun Titan, Grave Titan and Primeval Titan could theoretically all find a place, but as the land count went down and the quest for synergy increased, they were moved out. Sun Titan would be the first I put back in if I wanted to, followed by Primeval. Grave Titan doesn't bring the kind of bodies we need here, as strong as he is on his own.
Buffing Enchantments - Glorious Anthem, Gaea's Anthem, Intangible Virtue, etc. I've tried these before, but I find they generally fall into the win-more category. To be good, you need a lot of tokens, but if I have a lot of tokens out, I'm already winning, so I prefer to run more utility in their place, ways to turn the game back around. If you want to be more straightforwardly aggressive, then you could easily add them.
Thallids - I don't run Thallids for two reasons. First, I find them to be a little slow and vulnerable. Second, i don't like having to keep track of too many different types of counters on the field.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant - It's tough to justify, yeah, and she would definitely be very good in the deck, but I am not able to say what I would take out to put her in.
I'll add other cards to this section as they come up, as well as explanations of cards that come out and why if I change the list again in the future.
Change Log
-1 Mobilization, +1 Crop Rotation
While taking out mobilization may turn out to be a mistake, I really want to increase my ability to get to the needed utility lands.
Pimpin Ain't Easy
I'm going to track my progress pimping out the deck here as well, for those who are interested. I will probably try to put up pics too of some of the more interesting pieces as they are acquired. They're not always the most expensive or rarest, but rather my favourite version.
BASICS - All the basic lands I own are Zen Full art. For this deck, I have two foiled: Plains#230, and Swamp#240.
COMMANDER CARDS - These aren't available in foil, and the oversized card is unwieldy. So I have commisioned an alteration on both my Ghave and his Command Tower. I'm getting Ghave made into a full art version. Same for the Command Tower, but I'm getting Ghave added to the Command Tower art so there is no question WHO is in command. Not sure if I will get my Scavenging Ooze likewise altered. I probably will, but hesitate only because all the judges I know don't allow people to play with alters (because they say, and I see their point, that there is no way to prove that you have the real card under the paint without ruining the alteration), and he does have applications in Legacy.
REGULAR FOILS - Auramancer (M12, will probably replace with an Odyssey foil eventually), Avacyn's Pilgrim, Birds of Paradise (M10, not considered to be the most pimped, but hands down my favourite Birds art), Caves of Koilos (Apocalypse), Congregation, Harmonize, Isolated Chapel, Kngiht of the Reliquary (Conflux, NOT the Wayne Reynolds art), Melira, Sylvkok Outcast, Mentor of the Meek, Mortician Beetle (surprisingly difficult to trade for, no likes this guy for some reason, so no one thinks to put him in thier trade binder), Ranger of Eos, Sacred Mesa (Times Spiral Time Shifted obviously), Woodland Cemetery
PROMOS, ETC. - Captain Sisay (FTV: Legends), Cultivate (FNM, I actually really like the art on this much more than the original), Diabolic Tutor (8th edition Japanese Foil), Elves of Deep Shadow (FNM Foil; I like the original art over the Ravnica art, so this is a keeper), Liliana Vess (DotPW Promo; Kekai Kotaki is a favourite artist of mine, so this is definitely my favourite Lilly), Necropotence (Deckmasters foil), Wrath of God (Full Art Textless Foil Player reward)
FIRST PRINTS - Strip Mine, Ashnod's Altar. I hate white borders, so to me its worth the effort track down originals over white-borered reprints.
PRIORITIES TO UPGRADE -Essence Warden and Mesa Enchantress (I love the Planeshifted borders, especially how they look in foil), Plow Under (Urza's, not 8th edition), Phyrexian Arena (Apocalypse Foil), Demonic Tutor (Ultimately I want the Judge foil, but in the meantime a Duel Deck version will do), Verduran enchantress (Alpha or Beta), Ajani Goldmane (Pro Tour Foil), Kitchen Finks (Shadowmoor Foil, not the FNM), Fanatical Devotion (Foil), Glare of Subdual (Foil)
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Gutter Grime doesn't have a lot of synergy with Ghave because its nontoken creature you control for its trigger effect. Your list doesn't use a lot of creatures.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Wow! That's a great card to have in a Ghave deck! Thanks for sharing!
No problem! A good friend is the manager of the LGS I frequent and he hates sorting cards. I am pretty OCD so I love sorting cards. I also love store credit, so he gives me credit to sort and restock the binders. Every now and then I find a gem like that in an old set and I'm like "WTF? Why I have never heard of this before?"
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
You're swarming you don't have to add earthcraft if you don't want to combo, but you're utilizing tokens why isn't doubling season in here? You have juniper and all the other cards doubling is just a must in any Ghave deck. Also Knight-Errant is a boss I'd find room for her. Bitter Ordeal is awesome in Ghave, have fun exiling half of someones library.
You're swarming you don't have to add earthcraft if you don't want to combo, but you're utilizing tokens why isn't doubling season in here? You have juniper and all the other cards doubling is just a must in any Ghave deck. Also Knight-Errant is a boss I'd find room for her. Bitter Ordeal is awesome in Ghave, have fun exiling half of someones library.
I actually covered Doubling Season. I don't own it, and its not at the top of my acquisition priorities right now. It's definitely stronger than Parallel Lives, but PL does fine for me for now.
Elspeth is awesome, yes, but as I mentioend, I have no idea what I would take out for her.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Too high mana cost? In a format where one of the most fearsome generals is a monoblue general with the same CMC but no green to accelerate? Slowness has never been an issue for me.
Don't get me wrong, I love Doran, but Doran and Ghave do completely different things. Ghave comes in to seal victory as the final move to take over the game, where Doran comes down to begin the offensive with high toughness, low power creatures. They don't run the same cards, or play the same strategy. They are not comparable in any way except colour identity.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
You say that you want a deck that doesn't want to combo out resulting in the same game, etc but that is what you're really achieving in this deck is it not? Maybe in your meta there isn't much wrath effects, enchantment destruction, or what not but it seems to be a very defensive deck, waiting to draw key cards and going infinite. Without cards like Blasting Station making infinite tokens or gaining infinite life isn't a guaranteed win. What about Karmic Guide and Reveillark? Why Mindwarper over Sadistic Hypnotist? If you're going to convert your decklist to a primer, you need to explain the focus of the deck and its win conditions.
You say that you want a deck that doesn't want to combo out resulting in the same game, etc but that is what you're really achieving in this deck is it not? Maybe in your meta there isn't much wrath effects, enchantment destruction, or what not but it seems to be a very defensive deck, waiting to draw key cards and going infinite. Without cards like Blasting Station making infinite tokens or gaining infinite life isn't a guaranteed win. What about Karmic Guide and Reveillark? Why Mindwarper over Sadistic Hypnotist? If you're going to convert your decklist to a primer, you need to explain the focus of the deck and its win conditions.
What I meant is that I changed the deck so that it is no longer aiming to combo out as soon as possible. The Mortician Beetle/Ashnod's Altar combo is still there, but there are other things going as well, whereas I previously had what amounted to a bunch of tutors to assemble the combo and that is what I did every game.
Mindwarper was an experiment because I saw the card and it was a quarter, while I hadn't heard of Sadistic Hypnotist before.
As far as winning from going infinite, you don't necessarily win with a million tokens (there is no way to give them haste in the deck right now, though I guess I could use Concordant Crossroads). Rather, you can use Grave Pact or Glare of Subdual to get any blockers out of the way, then make any of your guys who can attack that turn infinite power/toughness and swing. And with Mentor of the Meek, Fecundity and Skullclamp, going infinite usually also means drawing any number of cards desired, so it's easy once you start to dig for everything else.
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
I stumbled upon your deck. Thanks for the great ideas. I have one mana acceleration creature that I personally prefer in my own Ghave deck--Quirion Elves. Even though it's a little more expensive, I like having the option of selecting the color I'm in need of. What do you think about that one?
Another card I would replace Cultivate or Kodama's Reach with is Primal Growth. That works great in Ghave decks, since the two lands are immediately available.
1 Ghave, Guru of Spores
DRAW ENGINES
2 Argothian Enchantress
3 Fecundity
4 Harmonize
5 Horizon Canopy
6 Mentor of the Meek
7 Mesa Enchantress
8 Necropotence
9 Phyrexian Arena
10 Skullclamp
11 Verduran Enchantress
TUTORS
12 Academy Rector
13 Captain Sisay
14 Congregation at Dawn
15 Demonic Tutor
16 Diabolic Tutor
17 Enlightened Tutor
18 Knight of the Reliquary
19 Liliana Vess
20 Marsh Flats
21 Ranger of Eos
22 Verdant Catacombs
23 Worldly Tutor
70 Crop Rotation
CONTROL
24 Aura Shards
25 Beast Within
26 Bojuka Bog
27 Glare of Subdual
28 Grave Pact
29 Maelstrom Pulse
30 Mindwarper
31 Oblivion Ring
32 Plow Under
33 Strip Mine
34 Vindicate
35 Wrath of God
36 Ashnod's Altar
37 Avacyn's Pilgrim
38 Birds of Paradise
39 Cultivate
40 Elves of Deep Shadow
41 Golgari Signet
42 Kodama's Reach
43 Oracle of Mul Daya
44 Orzhov Signet
45 Phyrexian Tower
46 Selesnya Signet
47 Serra's Sanctum
48 Sol Ring
49 Temple of the False God
DEFENSE/PROTECTION
50 Circle of Despair
51 Essence Warden
52 Fanatical Devotion
53 Ghostly Prison
54 Kitchen Finks
55 Kor Haven
56 Leyline of Sanctity
57 Melira, Sylvok Outcast
58 Mystifying Maze
59 Pendelhaven
60 Reliquary Tower
61 Saffi Eriksdotter
62 Sejiri Steppe
63 Soul Warden
64 Soul't Attendant
COUNTERS/TOKENS
65 Ajani Goldmane
66 Awakening Zone
67 Gavony Township
68 Juniper Order Ranger
69 Mikaeus, the Lunarch
72 Oran-Rief, the Vastwood
73 Parallel Lives
74 Sacred Mesa
75 Scavenging Ooze
76 Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree
MULTIPURPOSE/MISCELLANEOUS
77 Abundance
78 Auramancer
79 Crime//Punishment
80 Eternal Witness
81 Garruk Relentless
82 Primal Command
83 Profane Command
84 Sterling Grove
OTHER LANDS
85 Caves of Koilos
86 Command Tower
87 Godless Shrine
88 Isolated Chapel
89 Llanowar Wastes
90 Murmuring Bosk
91 Overgrown Tomb
92 Sunpetal Grove
93 Temple Garden
94 Woodland Cemetery
95 Forest
96 Forest
97 Plains
98 Plains
99 Swamp
100 Swamp
So, what is this deck looking to do? Early on it wants to ramp a little and run defense until it has a safe environment to bring in Ghave. I don't like to summon him until I have enough mana to leave at least a few saprolings behind if he bites it. It can play slow to overhwlem with numbers, but it also has a few combos/synergies that can end the game on the spot. Most notable is Mortician Beetle and Ashnod's Altar. With Ghave out, you get infinite mana, saprolings and +1/+1 counters. Combined with other cards in the deck, this can also net you infinite cards, tap down infinite creatures, gain infinite life, deliver infinite edicts and so on.
The biggest strategy to keep in mind with this deck is not to overextend. As soon as you have any sort of self-sustaining board state, you can afford to just continue with the board state while filling your hand. What counts as a self-sustaining board state? This is any state where you have a renewable source of counters and/or tokens, which you can use to continually grow your board. This is the strength of Ghave as a General.
For example, if you have Sacred Mesa and Glare of Subdual in play, don't bother putting down that Awakening Zone, you don't need it. If you're already gleefully feeding tokens to your Skullclamp, hold onto that Mentor of the Meek.
It is painfully easy with this deck to set up this kind of a board and then you can just sit back. Save your tutors. There are alot of good cards in the deck, and with the number of tutors reduced from previous incarnations, they are best saved until you need a silver bullet.
I'll go over the card choices by category.
DRAW ENGINES
Argothian Enchantress, Mesa Enchantress, Verduran Enchantress - The deck runs alot of enchantments, so these ladies should be worth at least a card or two each, if not more. Argothian is the best of course, being cheaper and shrouded, but they're all good. Kor Spiritdancer gets a pass because none of the enchantments are auras.
Fecundity, Necropotence, Phyrexian Arena - The card drawing enchantments give the deck alot of gas. Fecundity can be risky, since it benefits my opponents too, so I don't tend to drop it until I untap with Ghave in play and know I will get the most out of it. Necro and Arena are pretty standard, well known engines. If I were adapting to the French banlist, I would happily replace necropotence with Greed.
Harmonize, Horizon Canopy, Mentor of the Meek, Skullclamp - The rest of the draw pieces are pretty obvious. Harmonize is the best one shot refill in my colours, Canopy is a one-shot, but it can be tutored for and then pump up the KotR. Mentor of the Meek and Skullclamp are both total powerhouses in this deck.
TUTORS
Academy Rector, Captain Sisay, Knight of the Reliquary, Ranger of Eos - Rector obviously finds any enchantment I need, and is really easy to get killed whenever I need it. Sisay is new, but she can get any of a half dozen or so utility cards and combo pieces. Ranger gets manadorks, soul sisters, Mikaeus and most importantly, the Mortician Beetle itself.
Congregation at Dawn, Crop Rotation, Enlightened Tutor, Marsh Flats, Verdant Catacombs, Worldly Tutor - The card type tutors for the deck. I have cut back on the quantity of tutors in the deck to give more variety in play. Congregation is amazing for the number of creatures it finds, if less explosive without any Cascade creatures to abuse it with. Enlightened Tutor's first target is pretty situational, but most often I use it to find the Skullclamp. I count the fetchlands here because they don't actually produce mana (not running Urborg in this version), so they really are just more tutors. And Worldly doens't really need explanation. It finds creatures. It gets the most value by finding another tutoring creautre like Ranger of Eos or Captain Sisay, or by finding the last piece of a combo, like Kitchen Finks or Juniper Order Ranger. I wouldn't recommend getting any legend with it other than Sisay, since you'd get better value finding Sisay and letting her find the other card(s) you need. Crop Rotation usually wants to find either Phyrexian Tower, Mystifying Maze or Serra's Sanctum, depending on your current board.
Demonic Tutor, Diabolic Tutor, Liliana Vess - Sometimes, you just need any card from your deck, and these guys fit the bill. Demonic is the best ever. Diabolic is in over Beseech the Queen or Demonic Collusion for strictly cosmetic reasons (Japanese foil), so if you're building this deck or something like it, you could easily replace it with one of those two; Beseech for being cheaper, Collusion for its reusability. Liliana Vess has become one of my favourite Planeswalkers in EDH. She isn't overtly powerful enough to draw removal in most games, and she gives me two Vampiric Tutors at the very least, often much more. I've never used her ultimate ability, so I classify her as a tutor in this deck.
CONTROL
Beast Within, Maelstrom Pulse, Oblivion Ring, Vindicate - Space is at a premium in the deck, so I have made sure that what spot removal I have is broad in scope. These four cards are capable of dealing with any permanent-based problem on the field. The only downside is that other than Beast Within, it's all sorcery speed. But we have other tricks up our sleeves.
Aura Shards, Glare of Subdual, Grave Pact - Combined with Gahve's ability or other sacrifice outlets, these cards give us an instant-speed removal suite that just won't go away. Thank god Aura Shards is a may....
Bojuka Bog, Strip Mine - They're tutorable by KotR, and handy against a variety of decks. For philosophical reasons I have not complimented my Strip Mine with either Crucible of Worlds or Life from the Loam because I hate LD strategies. If you wanted to add them, you'd find them very useful. Crucible is also good with Horizon Canopy and the Fetchlands above, I left it out because personally, I can make those kinds of philosophical decisions in deck construction, but during play I tend to always make the strong play. I left it out to avoid them temptation...
Mindwarper - This guy is an experiment. I stumbled across him sorting at my LGS and I really like what he could do for me. A reusable (if somewhat mana-intensive) way to make sure my spells resolve? Yes please. I took out Persecute to make room for him, so hopefully it will pan out.
Plow Under - People know I love this card. Call Mr Plow, that's my name, that name again is Mr. Plow. Also, Azusa decks run rampant around here, so it helps to be able to catch up to them a little.
Wrath of God - True, this can hurt me too, but sometimes, just sometimes, it has to be done. I run the one Wrath effect hoping I can tutor it up when I need it. Besides, if any deck recovers from a wrath, it's the fungus king...
DEFENSE
Circle of Despair, Fanatical Devotion, Ghostly Prison, Leyline of Sanctity - Circle of Despair gives me ever Circle of Protection and ward for the low low price of creatures, which Ghave kinda makes in abundance. Voltrons have always been the bane of this deck, so against someone like Uril or Rafiq, I try to get this on the field ASAP. Fanatical Devotion is amazing, letting the little guys keep the big guys in the game. Ghostly Prison is an EDH staple and needs to explanation, while Leyline protects me from discard, edicts and most importantly (for me anyway) Bribery and co.
Essence Warden, Soul Warden, Soul's Attendant - The Soul Sisters make up for life lost to things like Necropotence and Phyrexian Arena, while also letting me recover from alpha strikes.
Kitchen Finks, Melira, Sylvok Outcast, Saffi Eriksdotter - Finks give life gain and have trouble staying dead, especially with Melira out. Melira also protects from Infect, which is still ridiculous in EDH. Saffi protects whoever she needs to, as she always does.
Kor Haven, Mystifying Maze, Pendelhaven, Reliquary Tower, Sejiri Steppe - Haven and Maze seem on the surface to be strictly worse than Maze of Ith, but Haven can be tutored up with both KotR AND Sisay, while Maze gets rid of tokens permanently and returns stolen creatures to their owners, so I actually prefer them for the time being. Pendelhaven is tutorable with Sisay and helps protect Soul Sisters and such, while having zero drawback as a mana producing land (besides being nonbasic). Steppe is mainly to allow it to be tutored up by KotR to protect from removal. The deck rarely draws enough for the Reliquary Tower to be necessary for that, but there are a lot of blue decks out there with a certain probing praetor....
TOKENS/COUNTERS
Ajani Goldmane, Gavony Township, Juniper Order Ranger, Mikaeus, the Lunarch, Mortician Beetle, Oran-Rief, the Vastwood, Scavenging Ooze - These guys are probably the most important parts of the deck. In my experience with him, what Ghave needs most is a souce of +1/+1 counters, even moreso than a source of creature tokens, as fuel to make him work, and these are the best I have found because they are a continuing source, rather than a one shot deal. Ajani's life gain is really just used to keep his loyalty up so he can keep adding more counters on. Juniper Order Ranger has the added bonus of comboing with Kitchen Finks much the same way that Melira does. Mortician Beetle synergizes perfectly with Ghave, and is part of the infinite combo with Ashnod's altar. Scavening Ooze doubles as pinpoint graveyard hate, which is always useful.
Awakening Zone, Parallel Lives, Sacred Mesa, Vitu-Ghazi, the City-Tree - These are my token-makers. Awakenin Zone doubles as mana acceleration, which is very sweet. Sacred Mesa gives me tokens at instant-speed. Mesa's "drawback" is turned to your advantage with Grave Pact. With just those two cards in play, you have a decent engine with which to overwhelm an opponent. Parallel Lives is a poor man's Doubling Season and could stand to be upgraded, though it does come down a little faster, which means if I am curving properly it plays out the turn before Ghave arrives to abuse it.
MANA ACCELERATION
Ashnod's Altar, Golgari Signet, Orzhov Signet, Selesnya Signet, Sol Ring - These are my mana rocks. Ashnod's is pretty versatile in this deck, strong on its own, and able to go infinite with Mortician Beetle. The signets are just awesome. Sol Ring is controversial for 1 on 1 I know. I'll drop it when I find others locally who want to play french ban list, probably for just a basic land.
Avacyn's Pilgrim, Birds of Paradise, Elves of Deep Shadow, Oracle of Mul Daya - Three mana dorks and an exploration/future sight on legs, what's more to say? Llanowar Elves are cut on the basis that they don't fix colours (if I can play a Lawnmower, I already have green....).
Cultivate, Kodama's Reach - Who says green has trouble with card advantage? First cards in any deck. The only time I cut these two is if I choose a General without green....
Phyrexian Tower, Serra's Sanctum, Temple of the False God - Pretty commonly seen cards. Tower and Sanctum are both tutorable with Sisay. Sanctum is a new acquisition and it may not work out. I have alot of enchantments, but possibly not quite enough to guarantee that I will always get mana out of it.
MISC
Abundance - Few cards smooth out your game like this enchantment.
Auramancer - I have a lot of enchantments, which means I am going to lose some of them. It's nice to get them back. Especially since if it's in the bin, it's probably because it was doing something good for me.
Crime//Punishment - This is just a really versatile card. Near-deeds on one side, Beacon of Unrest on the other. Awesome card, I've loved it since Dissension.
Eternal Witness - Another autinclude for me in green decks. Not degenerate in this one as I don't use anything to blink or recur her, she'll just do something good every game.
Garruk Relentless - I was underwhelmed when he was spoiled, but every time I play this guy he gets better and better. Makes two different types of tokens, tutors for creatures, takes out utility dorks. His ultimate isn't ideal in a deck with such a low creature count, but if you have enough creautres attacking, even 2 or 3 in the bin is still an Overrun.
Primal Command, Profane Command - My two favourite commands. I call them misc because they do too many things to be classified under just one category. Don't leave home without them. I would run Austere Command, but for the effects it generates, I like more precision.
Sterling Grove - Have I mentioned I used alot of enchantments? Well, this protects the ones I have, or finds the ones I need.
LANDS
Command Tower is a no brainer
Murmuring Bosk is like Command Tower number two, except it can also be fetched.
Caves of Koilos, Llanowar Wastes - Painlands aren't the best, but they're alright, and enemy colours need more fixing than allied generally.
Godless Shrine, Overgrown Tomb, Temple Garden - Shocklands may not be original duals, but they're the next best thing. If you have revised duals, use them. Otherwise, these guys are great.
Isolated Chapel, Sunpetal Grove, Woodland Cemetery - These cycles don't get a lot of love, but if you're running enough lands with basic types, they're really good. No long term consequences like painlands.
OTHER CARDS CONSIDERED BUT NOT INCLUDED
The Titans - Sun Titan, Grave Titan and Primeval Titan could theoretically all find a place, but as the land count went down and the quest for synergy increased, they were moved out. Sun Titan would be the first I put back in if I wanted to, followed by Primeval. Grave Titan doesn't bring the kind of bodies we need here, as strong as he is on his own.
Buffing Enchantments - Glorious Anthem, Gaea's Anthem, Intangible Virtue, etc. I've tried these before, but I find they generally fall into the win-more category. To be good, you need a lot of tokens, but if I have a lot of tokens out, I'm already winning, so I prefer to run more utility in their place, ways to turn the game back around. If you want to be more straightforwardly aggressive, then you could easily add them.
Thallids - I don't run Thallids for two reasons. First, I find them to be a little slow and vulnerable. Second, i don't like having to keep track of too many different types of counters on the field.
Proliferate - I've tried Contagion Clasp, Contagion Engine and even Plaguemaw Beast. It was decent, but as I said space was tight.
Elspeth, Knight-Errant - It's tough to justify, yeah, and she would definitely be very good in the deck, but I am not able to say what I would take out to put her in.
I'll add other cards to this section as they come up, as well as explanations of cards that come out and why if I change the list again in the future.
Change Log
-1 Mobilization, +1 Crop Rotation
While taking out mobilization may turn out to be a mistake, I really want to increase my ability to get to the needed utility lands.
Pimpin Ain't Easy
I'm going to track my progress pimping out the deck here as well, for those who are interested. I will probably try to put up pics too of some of the more interesting pieces as they are acquired. They're not always the most expensive or rarest, but rather my favourite version.
BASICS - All the basic lands I own are Zen Full art. For this deck, I have two foiled: Plains#230, and Swamp#240.
COMMANDER CARDS - These aren't available in foil, and the oversized card is unwieldy. So I have commisioned an alteration on both my Ghave and his Command Tower. I'm getting Ghave made into a full art version. Same for the Command Tower, but I'm getting Ghave added to the Command Tower art so there is no question WHO is in command. Not sure if I will get my Scavenging Ooze likewise altered. I probably will, but hesitate only because all the judges I know don't allow people to play with alters (because they say, and I see their point, that there is no way to prove that you have the real card under the paint without ruining the alteration), and he does have applications in Legacy.
REGULAR FOILS - Auramancer (M12, will probably replace with an Odyssey foil eventually), Avacyn's Pilgrim, Birds of Paradise (M10, not considered to be the most pimped, but hands down my favourite Birds art), Caves of Koilos (Apocalypse), Congregation, Harmonize, Isolated Chapel, Kngiht of the Reliquary (Conflux, NOT the Wayne Reynolds art), Melira, Sylvkok Outcast, Mentor of the Meek, Mortician Beetle (surprisingly difficult to trade for, no likes this guy for some reason, so no one thinks to put him in thier trade binder), Ranger of Eos, Sacred Mesa (Times Spiral Time Shifted obviously), Woodland Cemetery
PROMOS, ETC. - Captain Sisay (FTV: Legends), Cultivate (FNM, I actually really like the art on this much more than the original), Diabolic Tutor (8th edition Japanese Foil), Elves of Deep Shadow (FNM Foil; I like the original art over the Ravnica art, so this is a keeper), Liliana Vess (DotPW Promo; Kekai Kotaki is a favourite artist of mine, so this is definitely my favourite Lilly), Necropotence (Deckmasters foil), Wrath of God (Full Art Textless Foil Player reward)
FIRST PRINTS - Strip Mine, Ashnod's Altar. I hate white borders, so to me its worth the effort track down originals over white-borered reprints.
PRIORITIES TO UPGRADE -Essence Warden and Mesa Enchantress (I love the Planeshifted borders, especially how they look in foil), Plow Under (Urza's, not 8th edition), Phyrexian Arena (Apocalypse Foil), Demonic Tutor (Ultimately I want the Judge foil, but in the meantime a Duel Deck version will do), Verduran enchantress (Alpha or Beta), Ajani Goldmane (Pro Tour Foil), Kitchen Finks (Shadowmoor Foil, not the FNM), Fanatical Devotion (Foil), Glare of Subdual (Foil)
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Since I just discovered Fanatical Devotion it'll be an easy swap. Thanks!
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
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My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
No problem! A good friend is the manager of the LGS I frequent and he hates sorting cards. I am pretty OCD so I love sorting cards. I also love store credit, so he gives me credit to sort and restock the binders. Every now and then I find a gem like that in an old set and I'm like "WTF? Why I have never heard of this before?"
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
I actually covered Doubling Season. I don't own it, and its not at the top of my acquisition priorities right now. It's definitely stronger than Parallel Lives, but PL does fine for me for now.
Elspeth is awesome, yes, but as I mentioend, I have no idea what I would take out for her.
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Too high mana cost? In a format where one of the most fearsome generals is a monoblue general with the same CMC but no green to accelerate? Slowness has never been an issue for me.
Don't get me wrong, I love Doran, but Doran and Ghave do completely different things. Ghave comes in to seal victory as the final move to take over the game, where Doran comes down to begin the offensive with high toughness, low power creatures. They don't run the same cards, or play the same strategy. They are not comparable in any way except colour identity.
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
I completely disagree my Ghave deck is able to hold his own very well and recovers fast.
You say that you want a deck that doesn't want to combo out resulting in the same game, etc but that is what you're really achieving in this deck is it not? Maybe in your meta there isn't much wrath effects, enchantment destruction, or what not but it seems to be a very defensive deck, waiting to draw key cards and going infinite. Without cards like Blasting Station making infinite tokens or gaining infinite life isn't a guaranteed win. What about Karmic Guide and Reveillark? Why Mindwarper over Sadistic Hypnotist? If you're going to convert your decklist to a primer, you need to explain the focus of the deck and its win conditions.
What I meant is that I changed the deck so that it is no longer aiming to combo out as soon as possible. The Mortician Beetle/Ashnod's Altar combo is still there, but there are other things going as well, whereas I previously had what amounted to a bunch of tutors to assemble the combo and that is what I did every game.
Mindwarper was an experiment because I saw the card and it was a quarter, while I hadn't heard of Sadistic Hypnotist before.
As far as winning from going infinite, you don't necessarily win with a million tokens (there is no way to give them haste in the deck right now, though I guess I could use Concordant Crossroads). Rather, you can use Grave Pact or Glare of Subdual to get any blockers out of the way, then make any of your guys who can attack that turn infinite power/toughness and swing. And with Mentor of the Meek, Fecundity and Skullclamp, going infinite usually also means drawing any number of cards desired, so it's easy once you start to dig for everything else.
Standard
BWGRock RampBWG
Modern
UBRGLiving EndUBRG
Legacy
BWGJunkbladeBWG
My Sales Thread
I WANT YOUR SORINS
“My friends, love is better than anger. Hope is better than fear. Optimism is better than despair. So let us be loving, hopeful and optimistic. And we’ll change the world.” - Jack Layton, RIP
Another card I would replace Cultivate or Kodama's Reach with is Primal Growth. That works great in Ghave decks, since the two lands are immediately available.