Hey guys and thank you for viewing! I made this deck mostly so that for once my general would actually lead instead of just hanging back and doing whatever. I also wanted to have a deck with lots of spell recursion which is always fun. Plus I get to run Mudkipz. Tibor and Lumia aims to win with a full graveyard of instants and sorceries and Runechanter's Pike, but can also combo out a win with Turnabout + Reiterate + Banefire just in case. I do run a bit of land destruction because let's face that's red best tool in EDH. I'm not wealthy by any means so please don't suggest cards like Sword of Fire and Ice that are well beyond my reach.
Ok Storm version CMC was lowered by 0.60 from 3.40 in previous version to 2.80 in this version.
Goal of this new deck: Burn through it like there is no tomorrow and beat face with Tibor and Lumia. Now my new main issue with it is this I dropped both Anarchist and Scrivener which although aren't the best, are fun to play and are wizards which comes in handy. Are Anger and Wonder really worth it? They are good discard fodder which is always nice, but I sacrifice this for recursion. The other problem with it is that aside from Tibor and Lumia shenanigans I can not clear the board. I need at least Oblivion Stone or Evacuation there somewhere.
You seem to have a very similar idea in mind to my current T&L incarnation. I utilize a lot of cheap blue card draw to cycle through the deck and win with power equipments. A few notes:
I actually cut the Lox, it was a bit too expensive for my tastes. Empyrial Plate has been my third power equipment of late, due to my draw. I am also about to try out Leering Emblem.
Blue gives you strong evasion spells, like Shadowrift and Distortion Strike They are amazing.
Red gives you awesome strength in laying in the pain, you need to run Psychotic Fury; extra combat goodness like Seize the Day doesn't go over badly either.
Run a few tutors, with the draw this deck can run, Long-Term Plans aren't long term at all. Fabricate works well as well. if you can get a Tezzeret 1.0, he's a cool cat too.
The blue and red retrace spells work very nicely in here to cycle out those extra lands. They get extra mileage from River kelpie who's a seriously awesome dude.
Terrain Generator will be your most usable ramp. It's worth a slot in the deck.
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How has mana flare held up for you? I always considered it a bit risky, but my T&L always hungers for extra mana. I'd be interested to hear your mileage.
My goodness, I could go on for hours on this topic, but by then I'd have pretty much rebuilt my deck. =P
Unfortunately, like most my deck incarnations I never have most of the cards so I am unable to test. I like most of your suggestions especially Shadow Rift, but I need suggestions as to what seems superfluous.
On another note I never noticed how expensive Riptide Laboratory got within a few months. I bought it quite a while ago for like 3$ now its like 14$. Can someone explain to me why this is?
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Regarding Mana Flare I know for sure that this kind of deck is incredibly mana hungry and it will most certainly help you more than your opponents.
Unfortunately, like most my deck incarnations I never have most of the cards so I am unable to test. I like most of your suggestions especially Shadow Rift, but I need suggestions as to what seems superfluous.
Brittle Effigy - I usually find T&L can handle anything on the ground, and this is an expensive way to get rid of something. Elixir of Immortality - I try and try to deck myself. I have yet to succeed. Paradise plume gives better lifegain if that's your angle. Planar Portal - seems expensive.
We have also a divergance of philosophy in our decks. You have a lot more expensive spells and outright game winners (infinite combos, insurrection, land D) that I don't run. Take my suggestions with a grain of salt in light of that.
Another direction to take T&L is with equipment like Basilisk Collar for a heavy control vibe. That could work very powerfully with your combos.
On another note I never noticed how expensive Riptide Laboratory got within a few months. I bought it quite a while ago for like 3$ now its like 14$. Can someone explain to me why this is?
Vintage/legacy speculation with snapcaster mage.
Regarding Mana Flare I know for sure that this kind of deck is incredibly mana hungry and it will most certainly help you more than your opponents.
If you don't have Brittle Effigy, how to do you deal with indestructible creatures? O.o
Well some spells are run are purely for a plan B. You always need a plan B. Land destruction is red's best approach in EDH in my opinion because it's one of the few things red does best. Ruination and Volcanic Awakening are there for that. If my general gets tucked, I'm screwed otherwise. Insurrection is just funny!
But I did this deck because I fell in love with our aggro approach so maybe I just need time to think about it before I make my changes.
I like Basilisk Collar, but I hate the art work >.<. I hate dogs so much why they have to draw one on there.
Now... I looked through my list, and it turns out I have a rather lot of nothing. I mean, I can phase it out, or Repulse it but other than that, meh. I remove the player, and the troubling thing goes away.
Really, there are few indestructible creatures that bother me. They are either on the ground, and I fly over them, or they are in the air, and so I make myself unblockable.
Blightsteel Colossus would probably scare me, but if that thing is out, someone should have been taking some serious pain by then, and I should be able to simply eliminate the player.
If it somehow got out early enough that I'm not set up yet, then its probably not coming at me, since I'm not a threat yet.
Land D is one of red's strengths, but I focused instead on reds other strength on the aggro route: Enabling a massive amount of pain: haste, double strike, and double attacks. (and wheels! wheels are fun!)
Insurrection and Land D are exceptionally viable aggro routes. I focused my deck to be entirely about Commander Damage though, so have not included them, as they would not benefit my plan as much.
I have not yet had an issue with my general being tucked, mainly because I can either protect them, bounce them, tutor them back up, or if all else fails, draw cards like a frikkin madman until I find them again.
The last game I played with T&L I lost, but when I did so, I had 17 cards left in my library, and I was poised to take out both remaining players the next turn. (I messed up my math on a counterspell, I could have taken the hit down to 3 life and saved my mana for the next player )
Some of my recent changes have actually been to reduce my current card intake, simply because it currently ineffectively just draws more draw. I am surprised to not see a resurgence of GY hate in my meta vs. this deck, but the sad part about that was that I got Identity Crisised early in the game, recovered to a River Kelpie + Flame Jab engine, lost the flame jab to a relic of progenitus, had the kelpie killed and persisted back, and drew into an Oona's Grace for some absolutely disgusting shenanigans. Including an unblockable double striking, double attacking (Savage beating T&L with an equipped Pike (+9), and a Diviner's Wand, with a wheel of fate having come off suspend, a concentrate, and a brainstorm (+15). Oh, and they had shadow from shadow rift. For a lovely 27 double strike damage on two opponents. I was holding a Dream Fracture, Repulse, and reality ripple (and 6 other cards). I needed to keep open 5 mana to ripple one players greaves so I could bounce his general, and wasted it on the counter on the first player. God that game was fun.
Just a quick touch up, one gem I found for T&L in the wrath department is Mogg Infestation. A nice one sided wrath effect, which the only drawback is that you play another red spell.
I may be way off here, but surely running the better free spells will help you too, like Snap, Palinchron and Treachery. All give your general flying and you can still do more.
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Weiss Schwarz Sets
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
That is actually a very good idea. I'd been considering adding Control Magic back into mine, and Treachery is a direct upgrade. Snap is also extremely useful and highly underrated.
I was running Pali for a bit, but cut him as he was a hefty draw if not going infinite, but Elfy is running a more combo style, and would benefit from it greatly.
Treachery is kinda expensive money-wise, but an otherwise solid inclusion. Snap and Palinchron are also worthwhile. Snap would just be another combat trick, while Palinchron and Mana Flare make infinite mana too which at the very least builds up storm count from just Palinchron himself.
This is all good, but the question is what to cut. I have also realized that with this kind of storm deck likes more Wheel of Fortune effects could help keep the combo going. So Windfall and Wheel of Fortune should also be considered.
2.0 Storm
1 Buried Ruin
1 Dust Bowl
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Halimar Depths
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Relinquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Shivan Reef
1 Smoldering Spires
1 Strip Mine
1 Terrain Generator
1 Tolaria West
11 Mountains
12 Islands
Creatures - 7
1 Anger
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Palinchron
1 River Kelpie
1 Trinket Mage
1 Tibor and Lumia (General)
Draw - 13
1 Brainstorm
1 Cerebral Vortex
1 Compulsive Research
1 Frantic Search
1 Ideas Unbound
1 Impulse
1 Peer Through Depths
1 Ponder
1 Preordain
1 Rhystic Study
1 Trade Secrets
1 Wheel of Fate
1 Windfall
1 Charisma
1 Diviner's Wand
1 Empyrial Plate
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Swiftoot Boots
1 Sword of Kaldra
Utility - 10
1 Future Sight
1 Glamerdye
1 Long-term Plans
1 Mystic Tutor
1 Past in Flames
1 Reiterate
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Spellweaver Volute
1 Tormod's Crypt
1 Turnabout
Mana Ramp - 7
1 Coldsteel Heart
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mana Flare
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Paradise Plume
1 Sol Ring
Combat Tricks - 10
1 Distortion Strike
1 Gigadrowse
1 Haze of Rage
1 Psychotic Fury
1 Reality Ripple
1 Seize the Day
1 Savage Beating
1 Shadow Rift
1 Temporal Fissure
1 Volcanic Awakening
1 Arcane Denial
1 Banefire
1 Dream Fracture
1 Flame Slash
1 Forbid
1 Grab the Reins
1 Pongify
1 Repulse
1 Shattering Spree
1 Wild Ricochet
Ok Storm version CMC was lowered by 0.60 from 3.40 in previous version to 2.80 in this version.
Goal of this new deck: Burn through it like there is no tomorrow and beat face with Tibor and Lumia. Now my new main issue with it is this I dropped both Anarchist and Scrivener which although aren't the best, are fun to play and are wizards which comes in handy. Are Anger and Wonder really worth it? They are good discard fodder which is always nice, but I sacrifice this for recursion. The other problem with it is that aside from Tibor and Lumia shenanigans I can not clear the board. I need at least Oblivion Stone or Evacuation there somewhere.
1.0 Midrange Control
1 Buried Ruin
1 Dust Bowl
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Izzet Boilerworks
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Relinquary Tower
1 Riptide Laboratory
1 Shinka, the Bloodsoaked Keep
1 Smoldering Spires
1 Strip Mine
1 Terrain Generator
1 Tolaria West
1 Vivid Crag
1 Vivid Creek
11 Mountains
13 Islands
Creatures - 12
1 Anarchist
1 Flametongue Kavu
1 Godo, Bandit Warlord
1 Izzet Chronarch
1 Mischievous Quanar
1 Mulldrifter (Mudkipz)
1 Nucklavee
1 Scrivener
1 Solemn Simulacrum
1 Trinket Mage
1 Tibor and Lumia (General)
1 Viashino Heretic
1 Cast Through Time
1 Charisma
1 Mana Flare
1 Rhystic Study
Equipment - 5
1 Diviner's Wand
1 Loxodon Warhammer
1 Runechanter's Pike
1 Swiftoot Boots
1 Sword of Kaldra
Other Artifacts - 11
1 Brittle Effigy
1 Elixir of Immortality
1 Darksteel Ingot
1 Izzet Signet
1 Mirari
1 Mind Stone
1 Mizzium Transreliquat
1 Planar Portal
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Sol Ring
1 Tormod's Crypt
Blue Instants - 11
1 Æther Tradewinds
1 Arcane Denial
1 Brainstorm
1 Capsize
1 Counterspell
1 Evacuation
1 Forbid
1 Long-term Plans
1 Peel from Reality
1 Pongify
1 Turnabout
1 Banefire
1 Flame Slash
1 Insurrection
1 Obliterate
1 Rekindled Flame
1 Ruination
1 Seize the Day
1 Shattering Spree
1 Slagstorm
1 Volcanic Awakening*
Blue Sorceries/ Red Instants - 5
1 Distortion Strike
1 Grab the Reins
1 Reiterate
1 Trade Secrets
1 Wild Ricochet
Gold Colored Instant/ Sorceries - 4
1 Double Negative
1 Electrolyze
1 Invoke the Firemind
1 Prophetic Bolt
Please comment and as always thank you for your time!
I actually cut the Lox, it was a bit too expensive for my tastes. Empyrial Plate has been my third power equipment of late, due to my draw. I am also about to try out Leering Emblem.
Blue gives you strong evasion spells, like Shadowrift and Distortion Strike They are amazing.
Red gives you awesome strength in laying in the pain, you need to run Psychotic Fury; extra combat goodness like Seize the Day doesn't go over badly either.
Run a few tutors, with the draw this deck can run, Long-Term Plans aren't long term at all. Fabricate works well as well. if you can get a Tezzeret 1.0, he's a cool cat too.
The blue and red retrace spells work very nicely in here to cycle out those extra lands. They get extra mileage from River kelpie who's a seriously awesome dude.
Terrain Generator will be your most usable ramp. It's worth a slot in the deck.
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How has mana flare held up for you? I always considered it a bit risky, but my T&L always hungers for extra mana. I'd be interested to hear your mileage.
My goodness, I could go on for hours on this topic, but by then I'd have pretty much rebuilt my deck. =P
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
but Terrain Generator is an easy inclusion
-1 Mountain
+1 Terrain Generator
On another note I never noticed how expensive Riptide Laboratory got within a few months. I bought it quite a while ago for like 3$ now its like 14$. Can someone explain to me why this is?
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Regarding Mana Flare I know for sure that this kind of deck is incredibly mana hungry and it will most certainly help you more than your opponents.
Brittle Effigy - I usually find T&L can handle anything on the ground, and this is an expensive way to get rid of something.
Elixir of Immortality - I try and try to deck myself. I have yet to succeed. Paradise plume gives better lifegain if that's your angle.
Planar Portal - seems expensive.
We have also a divergance of philosophy in our decks. You have a lot more expensive spells and outright game winners (infinite combos, insurrection, land D) that I don't run. Take my suggestions with a grain of salt in light of that.
Another direction to take T&L is with equipment like Basilisk Collar for a heavy control vibe. That could work very powerfully with your combos.
Vintage/legacy speculation with snapcaster mage.
Good to hear, I'll have to try it out.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Well some spells are run are purely for a plan B. You always need a plan B. Land destruction is red's best approach in EDH in my opinion because it's one of the few things red does best. Ruination and Volcanic Awakening are there for that. If my general gets tucked, I'm screwed otherwise. Insurrection is just funny!
But I did this deck because I fell in love with our aggro approach so maybe I just need time to think about it before I make my changes.
I like Basilisk Collar, but I hate the art work >.<. I hate dogs so much why they have to draw one on there.
That is a very good question. Presently, I ignore them.
I used to run grafted Exoskeleton and the thing that gave wither, as well as Sword of Kaldra, so they never bothered me.
Now... I looked through my list, and it turns out I have a rather lot of nothing. I mean, I can phase it out, or Repulse it but other than that, meh. I remove the player, and the troubling thing goes away.
Really, there are few indestructible creatures that bother me. They are either on the ground, and I fly over them, or they are in the air, and so I make myself unblockable.
Blightsteel Colossus would probably scare me, but if that thing is out, someone should have been taking some serious pain by then, and I should be able to simply eliminate the player.
If it somehow got out early enough that I'm not set up yet, then its probably not coming at me, since I'm not a threat yet.
Land D is one of red's strengths, but I focused instead on reds other strength on the aggro route: Enabling a massive amount of pain: haste, double strike, and double attacks. (and wheels! wheels are fun!)
Insurrection and Land D are exceptionally viable aggro routes. I focused my deck to be entirely about Commander Damage though, so have not included them, as they would not benefit my plan as much.
I have not yet had an issue with my general being tucked, mainly because I can either protect them, bounce them, tutor them back up, or if all else fails, draw cards like a frikkin madman until I find them again.
The last game I played with T&L I lost, but when I did so, I had 17 cards left in my library, and I was poised to take out both remaining players the next turn. (I messed up my math on a counterspell, I could have taken the hit down to 3 life and saved my mana for the next player )
Some of my recent changes have actually been to reduce my current card intake, simply because it currently ineffectively just draws more draw. I am surprised to not see a resurgence of GY hate in my meta vs. this deck, but the sad part about that was that I got Identity Crisised early in the game, recovered to a River Kelpie + Flame Jab engine, lost the flame jab to a relic of progenitus, had the kelpie killed and persisted back, and drew into an Oona's Grace for some absolutely disgusting shenanigans. Including an unblockable double striking, double attacking (Savage beating T&L with an equipped Pike (+9), and a Diviner's Wand, with a wheel of fate having come off suspend, a concentrate, and a brainstorm (+15). Oh, and they had shadow from shadow rift. For a lovely 27 double strike damage on two opponents. I was holding a Dream Fracture, Repulse, and reality ripple (and 6 other cards). I needed to keep open 5 mana to ripple one players greaves so I could bounce his general, and wasted it on the counter on the first player. God that game was fun.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Just a quick touch up, one gem I found for T&L in the wrath department is Mogg Infestation. A nice one sided wrath effect, which the only drawback is that you play another red spell.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
Main Decks
Diaochan, Iroas, God of Victory, Kaalia, Marton, Ulasht, Volrath,
Kaervek, Prossh, Titania
Amusing or Themed
Progenitus
Pauper Guildmages
Azorius Boros Dimir Golgari Gruul Izzet Korozda
Orzhov Rakdos Rix Maadi Selesyna Simic Skarrg Zameck
I also play Weiss Schwarz, Chaos, Vanguard and Wixoss.
Accel World, Angel Beats, Familiar of Zero, Gargantia on the Verdurous Planet, Guilty Crown, Kill La Kill, Robotics;Notes, Sword Art Online.
Chaos Partners
Arpeggio of Blue Steel: Iona, Kirishima, Kongou.
Dangan Ronpa: Asahina, Togami.
Freezing: Vibration: Chiffon, Satelizer.
Vanguard Clans Favoured
Angel Feather, Dark Irregulars, Genesis, Neonecter, Pale Moon, Shadow Paladins, Tachikaze.
Wixoss - Just trial decks for now!
I was running Pali for a bit, but cut him as he was a hefty draw if not going infinite, but Elfy is running a more combo style, and would benefit from it greatly.
Retired EDH - Tibor and Lumia | [PR]Nemata |Ramirez dePietro | [C]Edric | Riku | Jenara | Lazav | Heliod | Daxos | Roon | Kozilek
This is all good, but the question is what to cut. I have also realized that with this kind of storm deck likes more Wheel of Fortune effects could help keep the combo going. So Windfall and Wheel of Fortune should also be considered.
-1 Cast Through Time, +1 Spellweaver Volute
-1 Arcanis the Omnipotent, +1 River Kelpie
-1 Wonder, +1 Volcanic Awakening
-1 Djinn Illuminatus, +1 Palinchron
-1 Mystic Remora, +1 Windfall
Better?