I've discovered that I'm not a very fun opponent. The power level of my decks seem to be at the cutthroat level... Hmm.
Anyways, I would like to create a thread for my mono-Blue general, Ertai, Wizard Adept. A counterspell on a stick, I love to have access to him in the early game when people are still setting up, monitoring the game so that the games become a bit more "fair"- IE, allowing me enough time to try and win. I would ask for comments and concerns, because this deck seems to lack resiliency. Oft times, I find myself mana-short and I'm wondering if there are changes that could be made that wouldn't adversely affect the power-level. DISCLAIMER: Similar to my Dralnu list, this deck is not a lot of fun to play against. It is very competitive and quite cutthroat. When I flip Ertai onto the table, people immediately start groaning and mutter, "F***ing Policeman".
If I had to hazard a guess, you end up mana short because you're running 36 lands and 7 pieces of ramp. Proportionally, that's the same as running ~21-22 lands in a 60 card deck, and you're playing a control deck with spells ranging up to 10 and 11 CMC.
Lose the weaker/less focused stuff (Grimoire of the Dead, Darksteel Forge, Mycosynth Lattice, Filigree Sages), first to get down to 100 cards, then for lands or mana rocks.
Jin-Gitaxias seems like a poor choice until you figure out your mana, because it seems like it will be rare for you to be able to drop and protect him. Doubling Cube isn't a good fit here. First, you need 7 mana before it actually adds any more mana to your pool. Second, you want to hold mana up for responses. This limits your ability to tap out at any given point, which is where Doubling Cube excels.
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[Pr]Jaya | Estrid | A rotating cast of decks built out of my box.
An excellent point about the Doubling Cube. It was only really in there to go infinite with Filigree Sages which I am most definitely taking out. It doesn't have a lot of synergy with what the deck is trying to do. I agree about it being cut, in favor of some sort of mana-stone or another Island.
I have also been looking at the instances of when I have cast Jin-Git. I have always had to discard, because I never seem to have Reliquary Tower out at the same time. And he's expensive, to maintain. Probably going to get cut soon. For what though, is the question.
I have also decided to have Lorthos, the Tidemaker behind Ertai in my sleeve that holds Ertai so I can switch them out when I want to be a little less cutthroat.
Thanks, comrade, for looking and posting.
EDIT: Memnarch needs to find room here. Somewhere.
You argue that I should cut what is essentially a tutor for more counterspells? Are you familiar with who my general is? Ertai, Wizard Adept. It is a counterspell. On a creature. That untaps. That has additional power since it can only be countered by Stifle, Trickbind, and Trickbind. I don't think I will add more counterspells to the deck, powerful as those particular ones are. I have found when I play that most people will let Ertai live so that everyone else's stuff gets countered. Furthermore, Trinket Mage finds the Map (which should find a Riptide Laboratory) while also finding good utility lands. Mindbreak Trap is also very good in EDH as it exiles, and wins the counter-war. Perhaps some evidence of why I should be cutting these particular cards?
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
An excellent suggestion. I will really think about this, actually. There is one game in particular where I had enough mana to counter something with Ertai and then use Minamo, School at Water's Edge to do it again. I was quite impressed with that particular interaction. The Elixir also makes a late game Ertai more relevant instead of waiting a full turn to come round. While also having additional synergy with Arcanis. I like it quite a bit, the more I think about it.
Truly a worthwhile suggestion. Thank you, comrade.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
An excellent suggestion. I will really think about this, actually. There is one game in particular where I had enough mana to counter something with Ertai and then use Minamo, School at Water's Edge to do it again. I was quite impressed with that particular interaction. The Elixir also makes a late game Ertai more relevant instead of waiting a full turn to come round. While also having additional synergy with Arcanis. I like it quite a bit, the more I think about it.
Truly a worthwhile suggestion. Thank you, comrade.
Those who play u/b no-fun decks must stick together.
In addition you may also want to consider Voidmage Husher. While I've never gotten to play her in one of my decks she seems extremely powerful and I've heard good things.
Those who play u/b no-fun decks must stick together.
In addition you may also want to consider Voidmage Husher. While I've never gotten to play her in one of my decks she seems extremely powerful and I've heard good things.
Indeed. Brothers-in-arms. I tried the Husher once in mono-Blue. It seems less good since the deck has few ways to tutor for it. Activated abilities are often what win games in my playgroup however, so I'll perhaps give her another go on Wednesday. I'll take notes on instances when an activated ability becomes relevant in my games.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
Since you include Palinchron why not also add Phantasmal Image. The two of them generate infinite blue mana without any doublers out. Image is also snazzy anti-generalness.
Sleep... can wait.
Phantasmal Image. I've never played with the card before, in all honesty. And I've yet to see anybody in my playgroup resolve one yet. I might test it, if I can find one. What would you suggest for its replacement?
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
Sleep... can wait.
Phantasmal Image. I've never played with the card before, in all honesty. And I've yet to see anybody in my playgroup resolve one yet. I might test it, if I can find one. What would you suggest for its replacement?
Having actually seen the Flagship played I can say it is so ungodly slow that I would suggest it.
Also, how are magosi, the waterveil and coral atoll working out? The waterveil seems to have no combos and the atoll is pure tempo-destruction on your part.
I've yet to draw the Coral Atoll yet, and Magosi has proven useful with a Bribed Seedborn Muse. I could afford the Time-loss on my part since I was untapping with a counter-lock. Otherwise, it's just a fun card that I use only in the afore mentioned instance. A situation I try to create as proactively as I can, however. I'll try the suggestion. I only wish that there was a way to recur it in mono-Blue, like a Volrath's Stronghold or something similar. Alas. phyrexian Metamorph must do.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
I'm not particularly impressed with that suggestion, Hallucination. I already have a plethora of draw spells that are better than a one-time shot effect that is sorcery speed. The draw spells I have all accrue card advantage without me tapping out again. They are permanent based sources of card-draw. One-shot kind of spells don't sit well with me, as I'm more frequently playing a draw-go style of play with this deck. Stroke of Genius and its cousin Blue Sun's Zenith are instant speed effects, making those one-shot effects better. Temple Bell also combos with Mind Over Matter to deck the entire table, excepting me. It's also a fairly political card, allowing more players to cast more of the spells that they have put into their decks. It draws little hate until I reach enough mana to cast MoM and counterspell at the same time. Perhaps some logic behind Mind Spring would be appreciated. I am quite competitive and adding something that seems to diminish the imagined power-level of my deck must be backed by additional words of explanation.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
In the event, for any reason you need to tutor a Wizard, I would also recommend using Vedalken Aethermage. Treasure Mage is also a decent tutor for your 6cc artifacts.
If you need a burst of mana, you can consider using High Tide too.
How is Bribery and Treachery working out for you? From what I see, you have quite a number of two card combo wins and I don't think you will have the chance to use their creatures to beat them.
I hope my input is useful for you. Thanks for looking and good luck!
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Completed my Legendary Collection~
(excluding 1996 World Champion )
Treasure Mage is an interesting card that happens to be a tutor and a good blocker. I'll find a copy and give him a go tomorrow.
concerning cards that reduce activation costs, they're tempting. I think I'm on the fence with them, as they're fairly difficult to tutor for (at least the Grounds is) and they don't necessarily affect the board immediately or accrue virtual card advantage. Grimoire of the Dead is a pet card. I admit it freely. It's quite terrible, people see it coming from a mile away, but I want to be able to summon a zombie horde in all of my competitive decks. I think I'll eventually take it out. I just want to play an evening with it in there, for the laughs. Bribery more often than not is just a blue Seedborn Muse. I rarely find anything else with it, excepting Primeval Titan. Depends on what I need more at the moment. Treachery is free removal if it resolves. I like it, being a way to take a general in the most favorable way. Predator, Flagship is probably going to be a Phantasmal Image has good synergy and does go infinite with Palinchron on the table. I'll be testing it when I can find one.
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In love with Black since I first began playing Avatar of Woe.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
Some serious modifications to hopefully improve the consistency and mana problems that I have with this deck currently.
- Jace, tMS
- Predator, Flagship
- Long-Term Plans
- Grimoire of the Dead
- Coral Atoll
- Magosi
- Islands
Jace never lived, Grimoire was fun but the card disadvantage wasn't worth it, and Long-Term Plans was never being drawn.
Edelmdor, I like your suggestions. I'm now trying to find room for Treasure Mage, as it's another tutor that can find a win-condition. I hope to improve consistency and the mana troubles I've been having before I make any more cuts first. I'll be playing this on Wednesday for sure, hopefully having smoothed out the kinks. Training Grounds is very tempting as well. Having Ertai be an actual Counterspell on a stick is very cool and efficient. What would you suggest for the cut of either card?
How is Thought Reflection working for you? I think it may cost too much for an effect that you don't seem to need.
As for Crucible of Worlds/Strip Mine combo, I would only play this in green decks (Asusa), or white (Land Tax/Weathered Wayfarer) where I can actually get some advantage land-locking myself and my opponent out. Especially when you said that there are mana problems with the current build.
You can also consider using Gauntlet of Power, and I don't think giving other blue players extra mana is an issue for you.
I hope this helps. Thanks for looking and good luck!
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Completed my Legendary Collection~
(excluding 1996 World Champion )
Bribery has always been good for me, more often than not being a blue Seedborn Muse. It's almost a two card combo, if it resolves, as it allows me to untap Ertai during every other player's turn. A pseudo counter-lock that is hard to disrupt with all the additional counterspells that are present in the deck. Thought Reflection has been most excellent for me. I have found when playing mono-Blue the games more often than not become draw-go games. Having Thought Reflection breaks the tedium of those draw-go games and allows me to find more threats/counters in order to force my win-condition through. And with Consecrated Sphinx, the card draw becomes utterly ridiculous. Imagine Brainstorm + the Reflection. It actually becomes insane. I do need to find a way to get Ponder and Brainstorm in here. Cheap draw in the early game to smooth out draws should be an additional improvement towards consistency.
The Crucible+Strip lock isn't really a lock. I use it as repeatable removal for utility lands that can quickly accrue overwhelming advantage, ie: Cabal Coffers, Academy Ruins, Volrath's stronghold, etc. It can become one once I have stabilized against a single opponent. I never try to assemble it until the late game. The Crucible is there mostly for the fetch-lands, to hopefully ensure land-drops every turn.
Thanks for your advice and comments.
Anyways, I would like to create a thread for my mono-Blue general, Ertai, Wizard Adept. A counterspell on a stick, I love to have access to him in the early game when people are still setting up, monitoring the game so that the games become a bit more "fair"- IE, allowing me enough time to try and win. I would ask for comments and concerns, because this deck seems to lack resiliency. Oft times, I find myself mana-short and I'm wondering if there are changes that could be made that wouldn't adversely affect the power-level.
DISCLAIMER: Similar to my Dralnu list, this deck is not a lot of fun to play against. It is very competitive and quite cutthroat. When I flip Ertai onto the table, people immediately start groaning and mutter, "F***ing Policeman".
EDIT: Deck current as of 1/7/12
1 Ertai, Wizard Adept
His Backup
0 Pact of Negation
2 Counterspell
2 Arcane Denial
3 Hinder
3 Spell Crumple
4 Cryptic Command
4 Mindbreak Trap
4 Glen Elendra Archmage
4 Venser, Shaper Savant
5 Force of Will
5 Desertion
6 Spelljack
7 Commandeer
His Lore
1 Sensei's Divining Top
2 Jushi Apprentice
3 Rhystic Study
3 Blue Sun's Zenith
3 Jace's Archivist
3 Temple Bell
4 Fact or Fiction
5 Magus of the Future
5 Future Sight
6 Sphinx of Magosi
6 Consecrated Sphinx
6 Arcanis the Omnipotent
6 Recurring Insight
1 Expedition Map
1 Mystical Tutor
3 Trinket Mage
3 Fabricate
5 Tezzeret the Seeker
6 Planar Portal
His Mana-Stones
0 Everflowing Chalice
1 Sol Ring
1 Wayfarer's Bauble
2 Mind Stone
3 Worn Powerstone
3 Darksteel Ingot
4 Thran Dynamo
4 Solemn Simulacrum
His Removal
1 Brittle Effigy
2 Gilded Drake
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Capsize
5 Evacuation
5 Spin into Myth
7 All is Dust
7 Karn Liberated
11 Ulamog, the Infinite Gyre
His Mana Doublers
1 High Tide
3 Extraplanar Lens
5 Gauntlet of Power
6 Caged Sun
2 Phantasmal Image
3 Thada Adel, Acquisitor
3 Crucible of Worlds
4 Phyrexian Metamorph
5 Bribery
6 Mindslaver
6 Mind Over Matter
6 Tunnel Vision
7 Palinchron
8 Beacon of Tomorrows
His Lands
1 Tectonic Edge
1 Academy Ruins
1 Halimar Depths
1 Boseiju, Who Shelters All
1 Minamo, School at Water's Edge
1 Seat of the Synod
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Strip Mine
1 Buried Ruin
1 Flood Plain
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Terramorphic Expanse
24 Island
Comments and suggestions are sincerely appreciated, when thought out and logical.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Lose the weaker/less focused stuff (Grimoire of the Dead, Darksteel Forge, Mycosynth Lattice, Filigree Sages), first to get down to 100 cards, then for lands or mana rocks.
Jin-Gitaxias seems like a poor choice until you figure out your mana, because it seems like it will be rare for you to be able to drop and protect him.
Doubling Cube isn't a good fit here. First, you need 7 mana before it actually adds any more mana to your pool. Second, you want to hold mana up for responses. This limits your ability to tap out at any given point, which is where Doubling Cube excels.
I have also been looking at the instances of when I have cast Jin-Git. I have always had to discard, because I never seem to have Reliquary Tower out at the same time. And he's expensive, to maintain. Probably going to get cut soon. For what though, is the question.
I have also decided to have Lorthos, the Tidemaker behind Ertai in my sleeve that holds Ertai so I can switch them out when I want to be a little less cutthroat.
Thanks, comrade, for looking and posting.
EDIT: Memnarch needs to find room here. Somewhere.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
UWGRBSliver Queen Control p=8329402#post8329402
RBUWG Slivers http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=363247 RETIRED
G Omnath http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7428848#post7428848
Legacy
0 Cheerios 0http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=7443850#post7443850
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Truly a worthwhile suggestion. Thank you, comrade.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Those who play u/b no-fun decks must stick together.
In addition you may also want to consider Voidmage Husher. While I've never gotten to play her in one of my decks she seems extremely powerful and I've heard good things.
Indeed. Brothers-in-arms. I tried the Husher once in mono-Blue. It seems less good since the deck has few ways to tutor for it. Activated abilities are often what win games in my playgroup however, so I'll perhaps give her another go on Wednesday. I'll take notes on instances when an activated ability becomes relevant in my games.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Phantasmal Image. I've never played with the card before, in all honesty. And I've yet to see anybody in my playgroup resolve one yet. I might test it, if I can find one. What would you suggest for its replacement?
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
Having actually seen the Flagship played I can say it is so ungodly slow that I would suggest it.
Also, how are magosi, the waterveil and coral atoll working out? The waterveil seems to have no combos and the atoll is pure tempo-destruction on your part.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
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Temple Bell also combos with Mind Over Matter to deck the entire table, excepting me. It's also a fairly political card, allowing more players to cast more of the spells that they have put into their decks. It draws little hate until I reach enough mana to cast MoM and counterspell at the same time. Perhaps some logic behind Mind Spring would be appreciated. I am quite competitive and adding something that seems to diminish the imagined power-level of my deck must be backed by additional words of explanation.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
In the event, for any reason you need to tutor a Wizard, I would also recommend using Vedalken Aethermage. Treasure Mage is also a decent tutor for your 6cc artifacts.
If you need a burst of mana, you can consider using High Tide too.
I am also not sold on Grimoire of the Dead and Predator, Flagship. These are too slow for my taste.
How is Bribery and Treachery working out for you? From what I see, you have quite a number of two card combo wins and I don't think you will have the chance to use their creatures to beat them.
I hope my input is useful for you. Thanks for looking and good luck!
(excluding 1996 World Champion )
EDH Decks (Total count: 90 and counting...)
concerning cards that reduce activation costs, they're tempting. I think I'm on the fence with them, as they're fairly difficult to tutor for (at least the Grounds is) and they don't necessarily affect the board immediately or accrue virtual card advantage.
Grimoire of the Dead is a pet card. I admit it freely. It's quite terrible, people see it coming from a mile away, but I want to be able to summon a zombie horde in all of my competitive decks. I think I'll eventually take it out. I just want to play an evening with it in there, for the laughs.
Bribery more often than not is just a blue Seedborn Muse. I rarely find anything else with it, excepting Primeval Titan. Depends on what I need more at the moment.
Treachery is free removal if it resolves. I like it, being a way to take a general in the most favorable way.
Predator, Flagship is probably going to be a Phantasmal Image has good synergy and does go infinite with Palinchron on the table. I'll be testing it when I can find one.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
- Jace, tMS
- Predator, Flagship
- Long-Term Plans
- Grimoire of the Dead
- Coral Atoll
- Magosi
- Islands
+Magus of the Future
+Crucible of Worlds
+Tectonic Edge
+Urza's Factory
+4 Fetchlands
Jace never lived, Grimoire was fun but the card disadvantage wasn't worth it, and Long-Term Plans was never being drawn.
Edelmdor, I like your suggestions. I'm now trying to find room for Treasure Mage, as it's another tutor that can find a win-condition. I hope to improve consistency and the mana troubles I've been having before I make any more cuts first. I'll be playing this on Wednesday for sure, hopefully having smoothed out the kinks.
Training Grounds is very tempting as well. Having Ertai be an actual Counterspell on a stick is very cool and efficient. What would you suggest for the cut of either card?
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
How is Thought Reflection working for you? I think it may cost too much for an effect that you don't seem to need.
As for Crucible of Worlds/Strip Mine combo, I would only play this in green decks (Asusa), or white (Land Tax/Weathered Wayfarer) where I can actually get some advantage land-locking myself and my opponent out. Especially when you said that there are mana problems with the current build.
You can also consider using Gauntlet of Power, and I don't think giving other blue players extra mana is an issue for you.
I hope this helps. Thanks for looking and good luck!
(excluding 1996 World Champion )
EDH Decks (Total count: 90 and counting...)
Thought Reflection has been most excellent for me. I have found when playing mono-Blue the games more often than not become draw-go games. Having Thought Reflection breaks the tedium of those draw-go games and allows me to find more threats/counters in order to force my win-condition through. And with Consecrated Sphinx, the card draw becomes utterly ridiculous. Imagine Brainstorm + the Reflection. It actually becomes insane. I do need to find a way to get Ponder and Brainstorm in here. Cheap draw in the early game to smooth out draws should be an additional improvement towards consistency.
The Crucible+Strip lock isn't really a lock. I use it as repeatable removal for utility lands that can quickly accrue overwhelming advantage, ie: Cabal Coffers, Academy Ruins, Volrath's stronghold, etc. It can become one once I have stabilized against a single opponent. I never try to assemble it until the late game. The Crucible is there mostly for the fetch-lands, to hopefully ensure land-drops every turn.
Thanks for your advice and comments.
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept
-Scattering Stroke
+Hinder
-Dream Fracture
+Spell Crumple
-Thought Reflection
+Recurring Insight
-Stroke of Genius
+Jace's Archivist
+Jushi Apprentice
+Fact or Fiction
+Wafarer's Bauble
-Crystal Shard
-Nevinyrral's Disk
-Duplicant
-Treachery
+All is Dust
-Mnemonic Wall
-Time Stretch
+High Tide
+Gauntlet of Power
+Phantasmal Image
+Tunnel Vision
- 2 land
-Urza's Factory
+Boseiju, Who Shelters All
In love with Blue since Cryptic Command was printed.
-----------------------------
Standard: Bahahaha. What a waste.
Modern: 4CC
Legacy: Dredge, UB Control
EDH:
UB Dralnu, Lord of Griefer Turns
UErtai, Wizard Adept