After getting board with Damia, I decided to take a different rout for a control deck. Using powerful, game-breaking enchantments (Moat, Humility) and mana denial, this deck literally takes control of everything. Combined with countermagic, spot removal, board-wipes, and draw...it has just about everything you could want
Great decklist Mithrao! I was wondering if there's anyway to budgetize the list. Don't really want to drop the hundreds needed for Moat, Mana drain and Force of Will. Everything on the list looks perfectly reasonable.
re: Maze of ith
I tried running it, but didn't have the space for a singleton card that is a bit tough to tutor up if needed. I am running Kor Haven, which I like much better as it produces mana
re: Academy Rector
It was in the original list, but got cut. Without a way to sack it, I found it was getting avoided until someone could RFG it. Just too unreliable in this deck.
re: Invoke Prejudice
Tried this one as well and then cut it. 4 blue was sometimes tough to cast, and the strategy here is to pillow-fort instead of dramatically aggravating everyone else and drawing all the hate. I'd much rather hinder incoming attacks thank draw aggro from the whole table.
re: Winning
This deck plays the long game. I've 90% of the matches I've played with this deck through Luminarch Ascension, and the rest through Planeswalkers. Remember, this deck is designed to keep the table under control until you can win through inevitability. I would love to add an Entreat the Angels and have considered it. I'll have to test that out. The other option is to add Rest in Peace[/CARD] and a Helm of Obedience. That would help for graveyard hate as well.
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"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
If you do plan on playing actually playing your general grand arbitor, have you tried [CARD]
Sakashima the Impostor[/CARD]?
I have been thinking about doing a 1v1 deck with your general and a bunch of clone effects with Mirror Galelry.
Thoughts?
I'm not sure where you got the impression that I don't play my general. On the contrary, I play it as soon as possible. It acts as ramp for me, and a stax effect for the rest of the table. The two-mana difference amounts to a lot in the larger-scheme.
For a control deck like this, GAAIV is the best general you could possible play. I get my enchantments out faster, and I slow down the rest of the table.
I realized that I need to update the list yet again...I'll do so soon
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"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
re: Maze of ith
I tried running it, but didn't have the space for a singleton card that is a bit tough to tutor up if needed. I am running Kor Haven, which I like much better as it produces mana
re: Academy Rector
It was in the original list, but got cut. Without a way to sack it, I found it was getting avoided until someone could RFG it. Just too unreliable in this deck.
re: Invoke Prejudice
Tried this one as well and then cut it. 4 blue was sometimes tough to cast, and the strategy here is to pillow-fort instead of dramatically aggravating everyone else and drawing all the hate. I'd much rather hinder incoming attacks thank draw aggro from the whole table.
re: Winning
This deck plays the long game. I've 90% of the matches I've played with this deck through Luminarch Ascension, and the rest through Planeswalkers. Remember, this deck is designed to keep the table under control until you can win through inevitability. I would love to add an Entreat the Angels and have considered it. I'll have to test that out. The other option is to add Rest in Peace[/CARD] and a Helm of Obedience. That would help for graveyard hate as well.
If you would rather hinder incoming attacks than draw aggro from the whole table, how come you play Grand Arbiter as general? Doesn't he draw hate from the moment you reveal him? I'm actually in the process of making a new deck and really like U/W Control, but I'm considering going for a less threatening general like Rasputin Dreamweaver or Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Also, if you decline to run Maze of Ith because it doesn't produce mana, why do you run The Tabernacle at Pendrell Vale? Maze of Ith hinders attacks while Tabernacle has a stax-like effect and paints a target on your forehead. I'm not criticising here, just considering making a similar U/W Control with Grand Arbiter and voicing a few questions.
I'm testing out Rest/Helm. Replenish is such a late-game blowout that, though it doesn't have synergy, it's only one card. In certain games, you're not necessarily going to want to play RIP unless you have to deal with graveyard shenanigans or you have the combo and can protect it. In that sense, I'm going to try and keep Replenish in for now.
Rule of Law/Arcane lab are a good choice if you face combo decks in your meta. I haven't had a need for them, but they are good options depending on what you face.
Regarding the general choice: Hannah is certainly a viable option, and can help recycle enchantments that get destroyed. However, I quite enjoy the quick burst of ramp that an early GAAIV can give you. He NEVER stays in play for more than a few turns, but that is often enough to get going. Keep in mind, this deck lacks serious ramp, and is VERY mana dependent. Your General accelerates your early turns and can help you establish control very early.
Tabernacle is actually run in a non-mana spot, and I love it. Here's why: it's a constant tax effect on decks that spew out creatures. Yes, it can draw hate, but people are often loathe to play land destruction so it stays around for quite a while. Its effect is constant, and it puts pressure on the entire table...but it becomes much more subtle in later turns.
The best way to think about the approach of this deck is early stax effects that slow down the table and let you catch up (or get ahead), and then switching gears to controlling the table in the mid-to-late game.
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"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
Fact or Fiction - One of the best draw spells in the format. Impulse/Ponder/Preordain - If Brainstorm is good enough these are too. Making room isn't always easy but they help you find answers when you need them so you can run less redundancy. They also help in the opening hand to dig for land/spells. Forbid - I feel that Mana Drain is the only better counterspell in the format and it is only barely better. Forbid can just lock people out of the game. This deck is trying to limit your opponents outs and a recurring counter can seal up the game for you. Rout/Evacuation - I like these a lot more than the sorcery speed options. Opponents having creatures isn't always a problem as long as they aren't attacking you. This way you don't have to be proactive with your mass removal. Recurring Insight - If nothing else I think this is a lot better than Consecrated Sphinx. It's also conveniently more accessible to you because of your available tutors.
As for cuts it's a difficult thing to do for a deck I've never played in a metagame I've never played but I feel like you can cut back a bit on redundancy. For example 4 sweepers + Humility feels a bit overkill considering all the other creature control you have available. In my playgroup Bribery would be a wasted slot but that may be different for you. In my Angus control deck I've been running Slaver lock as my win condition of choice and find it to be very effective and harder to disrupt than Luminarch Ascension.
Personally I would have gone with a mass LD & stax package to really take advantage of your commander. I'm planning on building that deck at some point but I still have a lot of cards to round up.
Added Helm/RIP combo...let's see how it goes. If I don't like it, I'll swap it out for an Entreat the Angels and bring back Tamiyo. Remember, this deck is about control and the long-game...you win by inevitability while keeping yourself protected.
Topor Orb would fit very well...but I'm so tight on room! Having redundant lock-pieces (such as multiple wraths, moat, humility) is what keeps your safe, and I'm not sure what to cut. I've already dropped windborn muse, what next?
Tezz could be good, but I don't run enough artifacts to really maximize it.
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"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
I have a Hanna deck that is very similar. I recommend Righteous Aura. It shuts down voltron, gets around protection / shroud, and usually makes your opponents attack anyone other than you.
Hi again, I just put together a very similar build without the Helm of Obedience combo. I feel that because you are running this combo you should include academy ruins in order to eliminate multiple opponents.
Serra's Sanctum both belong in this deck...Snapcaster Mage probably, but with the addition of Rest in Peace, the graveyard is looking less viable an option. Sun Titan sounds great, but it's a tad slow and vulnerable for this deck's play style. Angelic Arbiter is too slow and underpowered.
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"Never let your sense of morals keep you from doing what is right" -Salvor Hardin
1 Grand Arbiter Augustin IV
Lands:
1 Reflecting Pool
1 City of Brass
1 Command Tower
1 Tundra
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Marsh Flats
1 Windswept Heath
1 Flooded Strand
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Arid Mesa
1 Polluted Delta
1 Mystic Gate
1 Glacial Fortress
1 Nimbus Maze
1 Adarkar Wastes
1 Prahv, Spires of Order
1 Kor Haven
1 Strip Mine
1 Reliquary Tower
1 Mistveil Plains
1 Tolaria West
1 Ancient Tomb
1 Tabernacle of Pendrell Vale
1 Serra's Sanctum
6 Island
8 Plains
Planeswalkers:
1 Jace, The Mindsculptor
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Azorius Signet
1 Talisman of Progress
1 Sol Ring
1 Mana Crypt
1 Everflowing Chalice
1 Mind Stone
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Pithing Needle
1 Sensei’s Divining Top
1 Scroll Rack
1 Expedition Map
1 Helm of Obedience
Creatures:
1 Azorius Guildmage
1 Magus of the Moat
1 Consecrated Sphinx
Instants:
1 Hindering Light
1 Mana Drain
1 Hinder
1 Spell Crumple
1 Counterspell
1 Arcane Denial
1 Misdirection
1 Force of Will
1 Pact of Negation
1 Enlightened Tutor
1 Mystical Tutor
1 Return to Dust
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Blue Sun’s Zenith
1 Fact or Fiction
1 Brainstorm
1 Replenish
1 Idyllic Tutor
1 Bribery
1 Austere Command
1 Wrath of God
1 Terminus
1 Personal Tutor
1 Fabricate
1 Supreme Verdict
Enchantments:
1 Land Tax
1 Oblivion Ring
1 Detention Sphere
1 Luminarch Ascension
1 Moat
1 Ghostly Prison
1 Propaganda
1 Humility
1 Rhystic Study
1 Aura of Silence
1 Mystic Remora
1 Solitary Confinement
1 Sphere of Safety
1 Greater Auramancy
1 Leyline of Anticipation
1 Future Sight
1 Rest in Peace
Lock the game down, win by inevitabilty
Cards being tested:
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
-1 Land Equilbrium
-1 Serra Ascendant
+1 Hindering Light
+1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
So far, this deck is a beast of control
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
As the deck already runs Magus of the Moat, I'd put in Teferi's Moat in place of Moat
Counterspell is already in the deck, So Dismiss or Forbid would be the backup counters of my choice.
Foil or Mindbreak Trap are other options in place of Force of Will
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Added RTR cards, cut the chaff, streamlined the deck.
This deck is the epitome of control in EDH
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
I ended going more enchantment-heavy that I originally anticipated, and it's worked out fine.
I tried omniscience...but found it to be too slow without ways to cheat it in (massive ramp, artifact mana, etc).
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
I tried running it, but didn't have the space for a singleton card that is a bit tough to tutor up if needed. I am running Kor Haven, which I like much better as it produces mana
re: Academy Rector
It was in the original list, but got cut. Without a way to sack it, I found it was getting avoided until someone could RFG it. Just too unreliable in this deck.
re: Invoke Prejudice
Tried this one as well and then cut it. 4 blue was sometimes tough to cast, and the strategy here is to pillow-fort instead of dramatically aggravating everyone else and drawing all the hate. I'd much rather hinder incoming attacks thank draw aggro from the whole table.
re: Winning
This deck plays the long game. I've 90% of the matches I've played with this deck through Luminarch Ascension, and the rest through Planeswalkers. Remember, this deck is designed to keep the table under control until you can win through inevitability. I would love to add an Entreat the Angels and have considered it. I'll have to test that out. The other option is to add Rest in Peace[/CARD] and a Helm of Obedience. That would help for graveyard hate as well.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Sakashima the Impostor[/CARD]?
I have been thinking about doing a 1v1 deck with your general and a bunch of clone effects with Mirror Galelry.
Thoughts?
GRBXira ArienGRBXIRA ThreadGRB(White Border Cards Only)GRB
RUGRiku of Two RefelctionsRUGRIKU ThreadRUG(Combo-Infinite Turns)RUG
WBGKarador, Ghost ChieftainWBGKARADOR ThreadWBG(Creature toolbox recursion)WBG
WUBSharuum the HegemonWUB(Artifact Related Only)WUB
BXiahou Dun, the One-EyedB(Proletariat-U/C Only)B
WUBRGHorde of NotionsWUBRG(New Framed Cards Only)WUBRG
For a control deck like this, GAAIV is the best general you could possible play. I get my enchantments out faster, and I slow down the rest of the table.
I realized that I need to update the list yet again...I'll do so soon
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
If you would rather hinder incoming attacks than draw aggro from the whole table, how come you play Grand Arbiter as general? Doesn't he draw hate from the moment you reveal him? I'm actually in the process of making a new deck and really like U/W Control, but I'm considering going for a less threatening general like Rasputin Dreamweaver or Hanna, Ship's Navigator
Also, when I read through your list I also contemplated Rest in Peace and Helm of Obedience. However, it doesn't really jive that well with Replenish or Crucible of Worlds.
Aurification wards off attackers well in my experiences.
Rule of Law/Arcane lab are a good choice if you face combo decks in your meta. I haven't had a need for them, but they are good options depending on what you face.
Regarding the general choice: Hannah is certainly a viable option, and can help recycle enchantments that get destroyed. However, I quite enjoy the quick burst of ramp that an early GAAIV can give you. He NEVER stays in play for more than a few turns, but that is often enough to get going. Keep in mind, this deck lacks serious ramp, and is VERY mana dependent. Your General accelerates your early turns and can help you establish control very early.
Tabernacle is actually run in a non-mana spot, and I love it. Here's why: it's a constant tax effect on decks that spew out creatures. Yes, it can draw hate, but people are often loathe to play land destruction so it stays around for quite a while. Its effect is constant, and it puts pressure on the entire table...but it becomes much more subtle in later turns.
The best way to think about the approach of this deck is early stax effects that slow down the table and let you catch up (or get ahead), and then switching gears to controlling the table in the mid-to-late game.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Fact or Fiction - One of the best draw spells in the format.
Impulse/Ponder/Preordain - If Brainstorm is good enough these are too. Making room isn't always easy but they help you find answers when you need them so you can run less redundancy. They also help in the opening hand to dig for land/spells.
Forbid - I feel that Mana Drain is the only better counterspell in the format and it is only barely better. Forbid can just lock people out of the game. This deck is trying to limit your opponents outs and a recurring counter can seal up the game for you.
Rout/Evacuation - I like these a lot more than the sorcery speed options. Opponents having creatures isn't always a problem as long as they aren't attacking you. This way you don't have to be proactive with your mass removal.
Recurring Insight - If nothing else I think this is a lot better than Consecrated Sphinx. It's also conveniently more accessible to you because of your available tutors.
As for cuts it's a difficult thing to do for a deck I've never played in a metagame I've never played but I feel like you can cut back a bit on redundancy. For example 4 sweepers + Humility feels a bit overkill considering all the other creature control you have available. In my playgroup Bribery would be a wasted slot but that may be different for you. In my Angus control deck I've been running Slaver lock as my win condition of choice and find it to be very effective and harder to disrupt than Luminarch Ascension.
Personally I would have gone with a mass LD & stax package to really take advantage of your commander. I'm planning on building that deck at some point but I still have a lot of cards to round up.
Added Helm/RIP combo...let's see how it goes. If I don't like it, I'll swap it out for an Entreat the Angels and bring back Tamiyo. Remember, this deck is about control and the long-game...you win by inevitability while keeping yourself protected.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Tezz could be good, but I don't run enough artifacts to really maximize it.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Sphinx's Revelation is nice, but Blue Sun's Zenith shuffles back in. For this deck, I have limited recursion so having Blue Sun come back is enormous.
Forcefield I tried and cut. It ended up being mana-intensive in my meta (with creature token swarms everywhere) and became a target pretty quick.
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
Retired Lists: Ghave - Hanna - Thrun - Zur
Pauper: Crypt Rats
Also, a new addition arrived recently
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control
First, Snapcaster Mage would be really good in your deck. Being able to rebuy all your counterspells/removal/card draw seems really useful.
Secondly, Sun Titan would be a house. With so many cheap artifacts and enchantments being able to recur them is a must.
Also, do you ever have issues with Boseju or uncounterable spells? An uncounterable Fracturing Gust or Austere Command seems like it would wreck you. What about Mindbreak Trap or Venser, Shaper Savant?
EDIT: Also where is Serra's Sanctum?
Optimal Arcum-Control
Teferi, Lockdown Mage
Animar, Aggro-Combo Beatdown
Grand Arbiter Augustin IV: Total Control
5-Color Control