This is a Toshi deck built to use as many snazzy instants as possible, and finding black instants that don't kill things is tough! Here's what I've been having fun with.
This deck is a blast to play, and it takes full advantage of Toshi's abilities (you laugh at that bushido only until you enter combat against a solemn simulacrum and live). This is the only series of books that I read, and Toshi pulls a bunch of things out of nowhere - just like how this deck's instants laugh at the color pie.
Unblockability
Lethal attack power
Moment's Peace (since Darkness can be used twice!)
Ability negation
Spell retargeting
Doing these things is tons of fun, and generally brings a smile to many people at the table. This is a game, we're supposed to be having fun doing crazy things. Toshi's version of crazy is just a little different.
Staple black cards are staples. Sorin into Exsanguinate happens. Oh yeah, if someone needs to die, Toshi can make it happen. Maybe not the whole table, but that'll come with time (Hatred can be used a second time! Watch that life total of yours!)
If you have any questions or suggestions I'd be happy to reply. Happy Gaming.
- OSM
GP Charlotte 2013 Top 16 GTC Limited
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
I tried a similar ish kind of list myself. I think personally you dont have enough instants though (I ran around 30ish in mine)... My problem was that it seemed like Exsanguinate was the main wincon of the deck though. It is a fun little deck but man it is hard to do a whole lot with him...
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
Trying to put a Toshiro deck together now myself, lots more instants (28) and creatures that benefit from other creatures dying, even if its just a 1-2 life point swing (Sangromancer, Extractor Demon, Falkenrath Noble). He is so open ended that its been hard to nail things down, and impossible to gold fish because he is so reactionary to the board state.
The one issue I have is that I am worried Toshiro will just shut everything down until the combo player which rarely needs creatures, ends up finishing the game.
What has your experience been in games you lost?
Was it just too much creatures to pin down, or something else?
Trying to put a Toshiro deck together now myself, lots more instants (28) and creatures that benefit from other creatures dying, even if its just a 1-2 life point swing (Sangromancer, Extractor Demon, Falkenrath Noble). He is so open ended that its been hard to nail things down, and impossible to gold fish because he is so reactionary to the board state.
The one issue I have is that I am worried Toshiro will just shut everything down until the combo player which rarely needs creatures, ends up finishing the game.
What has your experience been in games you lost?
Was it just too much creatures to pin down, or something else?
In my own experience just try to keep spot kill and what not in hand for when things come at you. If there is sort of a premise that anything that comes at me dies it might detur people from doing it. On the other hand agro decks should be swinging at the combo player first anyways to try to push the clock on them. That is how I play my agro at least.
Try not to get too wrath heavy because you can turn your list into the situation you mentioned. Targeted removal that can be used to punish those who have been bad works ok.
I only ran my list for 1-2 games. The game I won was a 40 point Exsanguinate with tons of mana doubling effects, cabal coffers, and deserted temple in play. It was a bit excessive but they didn't blow my stuff up so I kept going lol.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
I do feel like I'm running too many sorceries though. Thinking about cutting Victimize, it needs more setup than I like. Might cut black market too, though it just gets ridiculous after awhile.
ISBPathfinder, how many people are usually in your games? Toshi doesn't seem to have too much trouble knocking 1-2 people out. Getting the last player in a 4 or 5-man game might be a grind. Swinging with Toshi and Hatred+Sewers ends things more often than exsanguinate for me.
I was told to look at an article about the kingmaker playstyle, where you choose one player you're not going to mess with and do everything to inhibit other players that could be a challenge to them. I don't have this playstyle exactly, but I could see that it could help you keep your resources up to not have to deal with everyone if they are working on the player you're helping out.
I used to have Basilisk Collar in to get life back from Hatred and to make Toshi a deterring blocker.
Picking up Entomb from the Graveborn PDS literally made the deck jump a tier in my group. I've used it to send darkness to my graveyard, kill a guy then flash it back to live through a lethal swing, and other times to set up hatred+Sewers. My most often grab is Rune-Scarred Demon to get in play with a reanimation spell, Sheoldred or Death Denied.
GP Charlotte 2013 Top 16 GTC Limited
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
I see, your list does indeed include a few more creatures than my own list did which might be a good idea.
Have you considered something like Batterskull? It gives some lifegain as well as a potential repeatable chump block if need be. Also if you strap it to Toshiro it makes him a 6/6 vigilant lifelinking creature with bushido 1 which takes on titans nicely. I played with the idea a little and it was sort of fun.
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I have officially moved to MTGNexus. I just wanted to let people know as my response time to salvation decks being bumped is very hit or miss.
In the vein of sneaky combat tricks, Tainted Strike is a useful 1-drop.
As a fellow Toshiro player, I'd recommend the usage of graveyard removal instants, as a means to mitigate the recursion capabilities of other players. It's been very useful for me thus far in stopping combo attempts, though I do also run Torpor Orb as supplemental policing. Cremate is a cantrip that, with Toshiro, turns in card advantage at worst and recursion denial at best. Surgical Extraction and Extirpate, while seemingly less useful in EDH, are actually moreso. Information is a powerful tool that's somewhat lacking in black decks, and the ability to not only deny a recursion attempt but also search the player's hand and library to take inventory of what they can do. It also denies Top-Of-Library tutoring attempts. When black is frequently capable of drawing more cards than it needs to play each turn via Phyrexian Arena or Greed or Necrologia, it's not too much of an loss in card advantage to have one tucked away, especially when they are at such low costs. Shred Memory is a transmutable instant which turns in to standard graveyard hate when used by Toshiro via the graveyard. Suffer the Past is grave hate, life gain, and damage as an X-cost.
Cremate is very good, totally adding it. I've had mixed feelings about tainted strike, it feels like a hatred that takes two turns. I liked it better while I was still running Skytherix. Using Hatred on another player's creature to make it a lethal swing is amusing. Transmute can hit a pair of boots, some kill spells, draw spells and Kiku. And word of command, which I haven't actually used yet (recent addition), and figuring out the timing is rough.
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GP Charlotte 2013 Top 16 GTC Limited
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
The 'two-turn' feeling of Tainted Strike is actually in itself a useful asset: you can use it to stave off damage if something could swing for lethal but you'd survive the infect damage. In addition, it can turn enemy combat in to a sneak-kill much in the same way that Hatred can, though you are very correct in that Tainted Strike's reach in that case is much weaker.
Pure, in its general form, is acting with selfless intentions whilst living a life of proactive, correct and logical choices where blame is nonexistent and there replaced with gratitude.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
Toshi deck flashbacked it's first sorcery yesterday - puppeteer clique on Snapcaster Mage, flashing back my exsanguinate. Not for lethal though, still awesome.
Pike - I'll have to try it out, it's awesome if I can fill the yard but toshi's ability seems to counteract it a bit. I know people used to do it in standard in mageblade though.
Rend Flesh - if I add more spot removal this is definitely the next card I'm adding.
Also, hoping to find this - slaughter. Seems good, can buyback from toshi I believe.
GP Charlotte 2013 Top 16 GTC Limited
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
Toshi deck flashbacked it's first sorcery yesterday - puppeteer clique on Snapcaster Mage, flashing back my exsanguinate. Not for lethal though, still awesome.
Pike - I'll have to try it out, it's awesome if I can fill the yard but toshi's ability seems to counteract it a bit. I know people used to do it in standard in mageblade though.
Rend Flesh - if I add more spot removal this is definitely the next card I'm adding.
Also, hoping to find this - slaughter. Seems good, can buyback from toshi I believe.
I mean, a big part of this deck seems to be playing Hatred on Toshi for the win, and since Runechanter's Pike does a similar thing, and should hypothetically give him at least +6/+0. I've been building a Toshiro deck and Pike is the reason I put in Whispering Specter.
Rend Flesh is just awesome, staples in all my old casual decks. I also plan on running Slaughter, you can buy it back with Toshi.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pure, in its general form, is acting with selfless intentions whilst living a life of proactive, correct and logical choices where blame is nonexistent and there replaced with gratitude.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
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1 Toshiro Umezawa
Instant Killspells - 10
1 Snuff Out
1 Tragic Slip
1 Go for the Throat
1 Tribute to Hunger
1 Geth's Verdict
1 Diabolic Edict
1 Doom Blade
1 Victim of Night
1 Slaughter Pact
1 Dismember
Toshi's Tricks - 11
1 Dark Ritual
1 Vampiric Tutor
1 Imp's Mischief
1 Word of Command
1 Hatred
1 Death Denied
1 Entomb
1 Sudden Spoiling
1 Moonlight Bargain
1 Sewers of Estark
0 (Seriously, click on Sewers of Estark)
1 Darkness
Planeswalkers - 2
1 Liliana Vess
1 Sorin Markov
1 Sensei's Divining Top
1 Caged Sun
1 Gauntlet of Power
1 Planar Portal
1 Nevinyrral's Disk
1 Swiftfoot Boots
1 Lightning Greaves
1 Umezawa's Jitte
1 Sol Ring
Enchantments - 3
1 Animate Dead
1 Phyrexian Arena
1 Grave Pact
Sorceries - 16
1 Damnation
1 Sign in Blood
1 Reanimate
1 Demonic Tutor
1 Beseech the Queen
1 Ambition's Cost
1 Increasing Ambition
1 Exsanguinate
1 Life's Finale
1 Mutilate
1 Plague Wind
1 Night's Whisper
1 Beacon of Unrest
1 Chainer's Edict
1 Black Sun's Zenith
1 All is Dust
1 Rune-Scarred Demon
1 Magus of the Coffers
1 Nirkana Revenant
1 Bloodgift Demon
1 Kiku, Night's Flower
1 Sheoldred, Whispering One
1 Myojin of Night's Reach
1 Drana, Kalastria Bloochief
1 Ink-Eyes, Servant of Oni
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Puppeteer Clique
Lands - 37
1 Cabal Coffers
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Deserted Temple
1 Temple of the False God
1 Polluted Mire
1 Leechridden Swamp
1 Bojuka Bog
1 Shizo, Death's Storehouse
29 Swamp
This deck is a blast to play, and it takes full advantage of Toshi's abilities (you laugh at that bushido only until you enter combat against a solemn simulacrum and live). This is the only series of books that I read, and Toshi pulls a bunch of things out of nowhere - just like how this deck's instants laugh at the color pie.
Unblockability
Lethal attack power
Moment's Peace (since Darkness can be used twice!)
Ability negation
Spell retargeting
Doing these things is tons of fun, and generally brings a smile to many people at the table. This is a game, we're supposed to be having fun doing crazy things. Toshi's version of crazy is just a little different.
Staple black cards are staples. Sorin into Exsanguinate happens. Oh yeah, if someone needs to die, Toshi can make it happen. Maybe not the whole table, but that'll come with time (Hatred can be used a second time! Watch that life total of yours!)
If you have any questions or suggestions I'd be happy to reply. Happy Gaming.
- OSM
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
WR Boros Legion WR
I tried a similar ish kind of list myself. I think personally you dont have enough instants though (I ran around 30ish in mine)... My problem was that it seemed like Exsanguinate was the main wincon of the deck though. It is a fun little deck but man it is hard to do a whole lot with him...
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
The one issue I have is that I am worried Toshiro will just shut everything down until the combo player which rarely needs creatures, ends up finishing the game.
What has your experience been in games you lost?
Was it just too much creatures to pin down, or something else?
EDH Decks:
B Toshiro Umezawa B
W Mikaeus, the Lunarch W
G Azusa, Lost but Seeking G
UB Grimgrin, Corpse-Born BU
BGU The Mimeoplasm UGB
GUW Rubinia Soulsinger WUG
GRB Sek'Kuar, Deathkeeper BRG
In my own experience just try to keep spot kill and what not in hand for when things come at you. If there is sort of a premise that anything that comes at me dies it might detur people from doing it. On the other hand agro decks should be swinging at the combo player first anyways to try to push the clock on them. That is how I play my agro at least.
Try not to get too wrath heavy because you can turn your list into the situation you mentioned. Targeted removal that can be used to punish those who have been bad works ok.
I only ran my list for 1-2 games. The game I won was a 40 point Exsanguinate with tons of mana doubling effects, cabal coffers, and deserted temple in play. It was a bit excessive but they didn't blow my stuff up so I kept going lol.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
I do feel like I'm running too many sorceries though. Thinking about cutting Victimize, it needs more setup than I like. Might cut black market too, though it just gets ridiculous after awhile.
ISBPathfinder, how many people are usually in your games? Toshi doesn't seem to have too much trouble knocking 1-2 people out. Getting the last player in a 4 or 5-man game might be a grind. Swinging with Toshi and Hatred+Sewers ends things more often than exsanguinate for me.
I was told to look at an article about the kingmaker playstyle, where you choose one player you're not going to mess with and do everything to inhibit other players that could be a challenge to them. I don't have this playstyle exactly, but I could see that it could help you keep your resources up to not have to deal with everyone if they are working on the player you're helping out.
I used to have Basilisk Collar in to get life back from Hatred and to make Toshi a deterring blocker.
Picking up Entomb from the Graveborn PDS literally made the deck jump a tier in my group. I've used it to send darkness to my graveyard, kill a guy then flash it back to live through a lethal swing, and other times to set up hatred+Sewers. My most often grab is Rune-Scarred Demon to get in play with a reanimation spell, Sheoldred or Death Denied.
Deserted Temple is awesome, I need to add it.
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
WR Boros Legion WR
Have you considered something like Batterskull? It gives some lifegain as well as a potential repeatable chump block if need be. Also if you strap it to Toshiro it makes him a 6/6 vigilant lifelinking creature with bushido 1 which takes on titans nicely. I played with the idea a little and it was sort of fun.
Signature by Inkfox Aesthetics by Xen
[Modern] Allies
As a fellow Toshiro player, I'd recommend the usage of graveyard removal instants, as a means to mitigate the recursion capabilities of other players. It's been very useful for me thus far in stopping combo attempts, though I do also run Torpor Orb as supplemental policing.
Cremate is a cantrip that, with Toshiro, turns in card advantage at worst and recursion denial at best.
Surgical Extraction and Extirpate, while seemingly less useful in EDH, are actually moreso. Information is a powerful tool that's somewhat lacking in black decks, and the ability to not only deny a recursion attempt but also search the player's hand and library to take inventory of what they can do. It also denies Top-Of-Library tutoring attempts. When black is frequently capable of drawing more cards than it needs to play each turn via Phyrexian Arena or Greed or Necrologia, it's not too much of an loss in card advantage to have one tucked away, especially when they are at such low costs.
Shred Memory is a transmutable instant which turns in to standard graveyard hate when used by Toshiro via the graveyard.
Suffer the Past is grave hate, life gain, and damage as an X-cost.
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
WR Boros Legion WR
Also Rend Flesh.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.
Pike - I'll have to try it out, it's awesome if I can fill the yard but toshi's ability seems to counteract it a bit. I know people used to do it in standard in mageblade though.
Rend Flesh - if I add more spot removal this is definitely the next card I'm adding.
Also, hoping to find this - slaughter. Seems good, can buyback from toshi I believe.
PT RTR Day 2
GP Worcester 3-4th place 2012 M13 Limited
GPT Minneapolis 1st Place
SCG Worcester 10th place 2012
TCG Platinum top 8 June 24th 2012
GPT Worcester 2012 2nd and 5-8th place same event 2 decks (2 running soul run ramp m13 standard)
WR Boros Legion WR
I mean, a big part of this deck seems to be playing Hatred on Toshi for the win, and since Runechanter's Pike does a similar thing, and should hypothetically give him at least +6/+0. I've been building a Toshiro deck and Pike is the reason I put in Whispering Specter.
If you need another way to make him unblockable, I'd use Shizo, Death's Storehouse. I also am adding Jester's Cap to take out grave-hate.
Rend Flesh is just awesome, staples in all my old casual decks. I also plan on running Slaughter, you can buy it back with Toshi.
Join the Pure Alliance! For fun, making friends, and the purification of your soul!
Every *TBD*, right here, we discuss cute things over some healthy green tea.