This is a primer for a deck you have never heard of. That is because it is a deck of my creation and I'm the sole pilot of it thus far. It has not 4-0'd any daily events nor top 8'd any large tournaments. However, it has been a steady force for me for the last 6 months and I feel it is completed enough that I can properly write a guide for it. Although my record of FNM wins probably matters very little to the people of the forum, the deck did get me 15th at States this year, and 9th at the Vancouver stop of the Canadian Magic Tour. So let me present you the list.
Yes this is basically a 3 color GWr Aggro deck. At it's core it's a GW Aggressive Midrange deck that in many ways looks a lot like the GW lists that were popular in the fall (although it predates them). The small red splash gives a bit of range in sideboarding to combat the traditional issues GW has. If you look at the traditional favorable matchups for GW and GR they cover pretty much the whole metagame. This deck is really about leveraging the best of both worlds. I will get into the card choices in a moment, but first let's look at what motivation one would have to pick up such a list.
Why?
You like feeling the cards you play are generally better than what the opponent can play at the same point in the game.
You like knowing that most of your non-mana top decks are simply game enders at any point in the game.
You prefer being the proactive player that sets the roles the players play in the matchup.
Why Not?
You favor decks that offer a lot of play and complex decision trees and card filtering.
You like feeling in control of the game at all points of the game.
You prefer single purpose linear strategies, ie always on the attack, always on the defense.
This list irks people because it is designed in a way you have to trust your deck implicitly. As with typical GW decks it seems your worst enemy is your own draws. This deck sets to maximize the potential of your draws. People will call you a lucksack. This deck is designed to make the player playing it lucky. It just means you always have to play to your outs and trust you will draw it. Some people criticized Kibler for just lucking out in his match against Finkel at PT DKA. That's a perfectly acceptable way to win and his deck was designed to be more likely to do so. This deck maximizes that even further. This deck puts variance on your side. I win often by being "luckier." Basically all things decided before the match.
I should mention that this deck still takes skill to play. I underestimate my skill playing it cause of my familiarity with this type of deck and this one in specific. The real skill to have is being able to make snap judgement on board states. Like determining how much damage you can do over X turns. You have to be able to envision lots of combat math atleast a couple turns ahead otherwise likely you are not playing the deck aggressively enough. You have to be able to anticipate opponents plays pretty well especially tempo plays since you may not have all the instants but you have to know how to play to expect them and strong arm them on board. That doesn't mean you can play the deck face up, but playing like you could potentially puts weaker opponents into a false sense of security.
Card Choices
The Mana
This is by far the most important part of the deck. It took the most work to get just right. It comes from an understanding that the deck exists in 2 worlds: The world where mana dorks survive and the world where they do not. This is no revelation for anyone who has piloted a 1-3 mana deck like this and has found themselves with no 2 mana play. What might be less obvious is how detrimental this is on mana fixing. For example the GW lists like Juza's were designed for a world where Mana Dorks exist. They did not play enough white mana to support all their double white costs in a world where they did not exist.
It is very easy to see this deck has 11 green sources, 10 white sources, and 6 red sources. Purely off this you can see there are enough red sources to support a couple 1 cost red spells, and enough white sources to support double white late game and Gavony Township. The interesting part is Cavern of Souls which for humans ups these numbers to 15G, 14W, and 10R. Enough to support Mirran Crusader, Sublime Archangel and Hero of Bladehold along with Huntmaster of the Fells or Zealous Conscripts if warranted.
The most important part of the green sources are definitely the turn 1 green sources. This deck has 11 which shies a bit away from the ideal 12 I would like. However, it is still better than Naya 3 color lists were playing during Alara(although not as good as Bant during that time). Cavern ups this number to 15 T1 G for Avacyn's Pilgrim. Meaning the numbers are still pretty favorable. The numbers of white are especially essential for the world where Dorks don't live and having the right number of red sources also is essential to the deck.
I will take a moment here to talk about the dual lands. I have opted for 8 Scars dual lands and 2 Core/Inn duals. This is a very important consideration. It is obvious the deck wants a high number of Scars duals to satisfy fixing and early green. Once you get beyond about 6-7 of these Core/Inn duals become a liability. Cavern only amplifies this effect. It is quite possible to get draws where you have a mix of only duals and not enough lands coming in untapped to curve out properly. Going to 8 Scars was actually easy from this point since the deck really only needs to get to 4 or 5 quite possible with Borderland Ranger so late game this doesn't matter as much. So even in a world without dorks as long as you have a Kessig, Cavern, or Basic to play by T4 or on T4 you should curve to 4 quite nicely. I don't need to make guarentees past that. With a single dork that brings you to 5 which is where you want to be. Past that coming in to play tapped isn't nearly as important as the early fixing you recieved.
Kessig is the reason I started playing red in this deck. It plays nice with the large number of creatures in the deck and is especially potent making sure Swords hit, making Mirran Crusader an unstoppable aggressive force, improving Garruk's ability to draw cards, and most importantly ending board stalls. It's like a fireball on a land and it makes any body into a threat no matter how insignificant. It makes our dorks worth something. Kessig also kills Phantasmal Images which are a pain for the deck. Gavony is still the superior card against Delver, and ultimately made the cut instead.
This mind you has been in a world without dorks. We play this standard set of dorks:
Nothing out of the ordinary here. This is very much like the classic birds + elves base. The fact the Pilgrim makes white is really nice though given where dorks live you just need the green mana to get going for the most part to hit double white T2. In a world with dorks survive the mana looks a lot nicer with 20 green sources, 22 white sources, and 14 red sources. That's high enough to even support double red in some conditions. The dorks play multipurpose by funneling mana early and be recepticals for our pump mid to late game. They aren't the best top deck but they aren't useless. They can get in on Sublime Archangel's Exalted or push the final damage with an activated Kessig against a deck heavy on removal.
And that completes our 32 mana sources. That's more than half the deck the rest of the deck better be pretty potent.
The 3's
These are the way you leverage the 1 to 3 jump, but are strong enough to be good draws late.
Now someone right now be pointing out how Mirran Crusader is just dead to a Shock, or can be blocked all day by Blade Splicer. It doesn't matter. Nothing leverages a broken stalemate better. I recently asked on the general standard forum name a non-white permanent that truly trumps Mirran Crusader under 5CMC. There were a few answers and even fewer that could stand up to Slagstorm. This card owns the the midrange. You've never seen Humans cut it even with their extreme competition around 3 mana. Yet GW players seemed to think otherwise. If you can cast this guy(hence the importance of mana) he is worth it even if he can die. Strangleroot Geist is close but the relevant protections and damage just push him ahead. Mirran + any pump is a game ender late game. Add a Sword, Gavony activation, Hero battle cry.. you name it he's a force to be reckoned with. The reason he fits so well in this deck is he is both a decent aggressive and defensive force on the board since mana for mana his creature power sticks him ahead. The protections mean that it is very hard to even slam a 4 drop that he really cares about it's size. He's a natural force against planeswalkers killing all the ones under 5 mana instantly in 1 swing even through their defensive measures (unless he's alone against Lilliana). (*Pre Ajani)
He has recently been outclassed by Blade Splicer with it's interaction with Restoration Angel, but Sublime Archangel switches this around again. With enough pump access this card is still a big contender and protection from black and green as relevant as ever as green decks get more popular and so does Dismember and Doom Blade.
While less of a force than Mirran Crusader it is much easier to cast and is great in an aggressive metagame. Restoration Angel was really the saving grace for this card. It's the Rhox War Monk of the deck. Just powerful enough for inclusion. Bonfire and the metagame in general gives it a slight nod over the considerably better Mirran Crusader.
The Heavy Hitters
This deck plays several cards that can just end the game almost immediately in any combination.
This card used to be the Swords or Angelic Destiny. But being a threat in itself makes it better in more situations. It was never good against Delver, so it has just been getting trumped on all sides. Sublime Archangels effective haste makes it that much better as it pushes the clock that much more. Dork, 3 drop, Angel has that 3 drop attacking for 5+ damage on T3. It's a fast clock that makes even opposing Splicers pale. If that 3 drop is a Mirran Crusader, that's 10 coming across on T3. It is one of the key ways to redeem the aggressive creatures in the deck like Crusader and Hero. It's interaction with these creatures and the fact it flies might make it even better than Silverheart. It ultimately replaced Wolfir Silverheart.
Asked pre AVR I would have said "She is the army in the can. Mini Titan.. This card drops and just has to be answered. There isn't much more to it. She is pretty much lethal in duplicates. Essentially a 7/4 for 4 that just gets better every turn. This is probably the one card that Mirran Crusader is actually afraid of early enough to force a trade. Sure it isn't great facing down Titans but it can even push for the win through quite a bit of opposition. I've jumped between 3-4 of Hero but Hero is never really a bad thing. The worse Hero gets the better it is to have more of her since she is absolutely devastating in multiples. Where Hero isn't great you either want a ton of her or you don't want her at all. There is very little middle ground with this card. I fell in love with this card when it was the key to my Vengevine decks beating Valakut and it has been my workhorse every since. As long as there is Primeval Titan in the format I will be leaning on my Heros."
Sublime Archangel and Champion of Lambholt have breathed some life back into this card.
This card used to be Gideon, but Cavern has made it so much easier to resolve. It's the best way to slow Delver and it plays nice with all the other big threats (Sublime Archangel, Hero, Champion of Lambholt). While weak to sweepers it does a lot of work across the board. I've always underestimated this card but it's all the value you need. It's a card that doesn't really beat itself. Clones are never as good on it as other 5's. Where Thragtusk could be a liability and Silverheart mercilessly dealt with this card is what you want. Elsewhere you already have the beats to get there lower on the curve.
The Utility
These cards basically connect the dots and smooth over the deck operation.
This card is a do everything. Obviously copying Swords or Hero or Sublime Archangel is just great. But it also does fun things like copying opposing Titans. It fits the curve right and using it to kill annoying Legendary creatures is pretty relevant. Clone effects are just good right now. It is important against Hexblade and a maindeck way to deal with reanimation decks. I side this card out a lot but it's a nice curve fit.
This card is perfect as a 2 of. You don't want to see multiples and you don't need them every game, but they are about as good as Bonfire against creature decks and they are cheap and aggressive. They play well with every card in the deck whether you are on an Angel or Hero plan. They aren't exactly 3 drops in a sense but the fact they do so much so cheap is a big benefit to the curve.
Like Champion these aren't really 3 drops except where you want them to be. Again if you stumble at 3 or 4 mana it's another way to push a huge advantage. This card is a lot stronger than anticipated. The high loyalty is impressive. The ability to always threaten is huge too. It shoots image. It let's you edge out CA postboard against Control with Triumph etc..
This card is really good and does about everything could want. It is definitely the weakest "threat" but it is your utility. It's your protection spell from removal, it's your haste after a sweeper, it's even a way to press your Hero of Bladehold Advantage.
Removal Suite
This is actually pretty simple. Given the high requirement of threats in the deck. I figured I can only afford additional 4-5 non-creature, non-land cards. If you look at the deck other than the 4 removal spells everything else is a creature or creature. For this reason the removal must be the most efficient and general.
Wow,.. this card blows open the mirrors. Originally Daybreak Ranger.. but let's face it. Non-miracle it's what the doctor ordered. Miracle is just crazy. No more need for partial hitting sweepers like Ratchet Bomb, Corrosive Gale, or ones that hit your self like Whipflare or hard to cast like Slagstorm. This card is at it's best in a deck like this. Firstly it's insane against other creature decks.. yes most decks are resilient to sweepers, but this isn't symmetrical. Even if their stuff bounces back, and you then attack then if they block their stuff is gone.. you completely remove the value while jumping way ahead. I do have a fear of certain creature matchups de-evolving into this card top decks back and forth, but on the positive side I don't see this making our bad matchups like Wolf Run any worse. They could hope to miracle it to kill a big threat but, are they giving up Slagstorms for it.. good trade to me. The real reason this card is best here, is that unlike Pod, I have no innate connection to running out a ton of creatures. Unlike GR my creatures are all x/2's so I'm not nearly as vulnerable on the beat back. This card was made for this deck.
This has been Incinerate and Oblivion Ring at different times but right now you want instant speed over all else I think. And this is cheap and kills almost everything relevant right now in a world of diminishing Titans.
Sideboard
The sideboard is really a collection of splits. It might not always be obvious but the choices here come a lot down to matchups. We run the most generic removal main so this gives some room to specialize. Just don't side in too much removal and remove too many creatures. The deck falls apart in these situations. Mind you this is where the deck gets all it's play. If MB is all about being general. The sideboard is about giving you the tools to outplay your opponent. Mostly just small 1 of and 2 of edges since the deck is powerful as is, but enough.
This is a catchall but it's very efficient.. Great against Pod, or decks that run Swords or feel that artifacts are their only way of dealing with Mirran Crusader. I don't often sideboard in both since we don't need that many answer slots. It has it's uses. Probably bring in against Wolf Run too. Good against Mono Black infect generally. Just a good card to have.
UB Control and Zombies and RDW. Just a small hedge. Incinerate loses it's worth. This is like an extra O-Ring against these decks except it's instant speed. These are the only decks where you'd really want another O-Ring anyway.
Bonfire sometimes is too expensive and this card does most of the same work. It's good against most creature decks. So in a sense it's Bonfire 3-4 where you don't want to go big. Short of Geist of St Traft/Stalker it's probably better against Delver and the 2 for 1 aspect can often just pull you a little bit ahead where you need to.
I used to think Thalia, was the best card against Control. This is and it isn't even close. Thalia is dice roll. Do you have it in your opener and do the they have the early answer. That might buy you the time but otherwise you just invest on the board and lose out. Thalia is a Tempo play that requires you just go for it. If you don't get there you probably lost. The beauty right now is the CA in blue decks is actually quite low. A card like this let's you easily outdraw them. It's really hard for them to keep up 1 for 1ng you mostly if you just draw more and more cards.
This one is pretty obvious. It's the most aggressive pump spell. It basically gives you a Baneslayer Angel like effect if it connects. This deck lives and dies on the power of it's cards and it's threat density. It doesn't need the abilities the other swords give. It actually doesn't particularly need the abilities at all but this helps promote the biggest on board attitude the deck takes. The evasion are incidently the most important to this deck since it is most likely to get stalled by white. And the life gain is a very nice touch against decks that would burn you which is a naturally weakness of these sort of decks historically. The interaction with Mirran Crusader is just nuts as well. I could play Swords main but I have limited the decks number of pumps to lower the chances of being Tempo'd. Anymore dilutes the threat density too much. It absolutely essential against white control decks.
Back on this card. I was dabbling with Crushing Vines for a while but with Sphinx on the outs having a more universal answer is better. It's a catchall and it's useful where a deck has only a few real threats, or where you need to exile something. Great against Control, and satisfactory everywhere else.
This is the anti-Titan card. It's also anti-control. It lets you steal wins out of nowhere. You don't always need to have it but it plays a vital role in combination with your other threats to put pressure on decks that aim to go longer than you. It's too good not to include. It might not be as accessible as in Pod decks but it still has a job to do.
Missing Cards
There are cards that you would think would fit into this list but I have chosen not to play them for some reason or another.
This card has been the reason people have been flooding back to green. I was really excited when this card was announced. I'm still excited about this card and am actively brewing with this card in multiple lists. Just not this one. Truthfully as much as people gave GW a thrashing there was nothing wrong with it. It was just facing the worst possible metagame. One where every deck could kill their Dorks for free (so at no Tempo loss) something most decks have no business doing. Gw didn't really need fixing. Juza's list today would still be pretty good. Vapor Snag was a problem in a deck that could capitalize on it quickly like Illusions. Geist does fix these problems and is by far the best 2 drop option in green decks. By miles. It just comes at a cost.
What do you cut for it? This can only come from the top end. You are basically forcing the deck to rely on pumps by going to 2 since Geist quickly gets outsized. Now I understand it's inclusion in GR. That deck has no good 3 drops (Sorry Daybreak, you aren't quite up to snuff). GSZ for Geist is the best it can do. But GW has more options. Why am I worrying about lightening the top end? You are damping the true threat density. It's the same reason I didn't like Viridian Emissary in the deck. Are we really attritioning for that extra 2 damage? There isn't the burn for reach. No this deck is a critical mass deck. When we win we hit with a sledge hammer.
You always hear 2 laments about the GW deck.. 1. I hate top decking so many lands and dorks and 2. I hate that they kill my dork and I have no T2 play. Does Geist really solve these? It obviously solves number 2. However for that to be practical you have to up your green mana count slightly and as you know it's the white we actually should be upping if we have Crusader. Why don't we cut Crusader? Why do we even play GW? If you are going to cut Crusader you need a good reason. As mentioned above it's versatility comes in the way it manages the board both agressively and defensively in a way it just can't be ignored. Even stalled it's a ticking time bomb(more on this when we get to Blade Splicer).As for the top deck problem Geist makes it worse. Geist is a better top deck than a dork for sure with it's haste. However it is quickly outclassed for all the resilience it has. I find people how have embraced the 2 drops in the deck still find it awkward. While in very specific matchups Geist is useful as a tool it doesn't actually fix the "problems" with the deck itself.
Let me put it a different way. If you say have 8 dorks and a bunch of 2 drops (maybe 4 Geists, and 2 Mortarpods, or maybe some Thalia's) compare your curve to UW Humans. It's like you are running the same deck. Except their 1 drops are better. And probably their 2 drops are easily comparable. Head to head we might be faster, but you are spreading out on the board in the same way. You aren't doing anything particularly powerful. Now if our opponents Zombies all spread out on the board by cutting the top we're basically matching them while they are doing damage to us instead of outsizing them and truly stabilizing. We might be able to cast more spells but each card is worth less. If we aren't going to accept we're the bigger deck and the risk that comes from it why even play green in the first place? Not having the T2 play only matters in the purest racing sense. We don't always have to race. And with 8 1 drops maybe you have a 2nd dork. I would actually play more dorks in this deck if it made sense but the mana fixing is limited. Adding Llanowar isn't worth it.
The point is sometimes they can keep you honest. The answer is not weaken what you are doing to try and punish them for their insolence by going "ha the dork didn't matter". It's maximize the power of your deck so you still just have that ability to get there. For every time there have it there are several times they don't.
Just missed the cut. It's a good card that is competing with Mirran Crusader. It just is putting a bit too much of the early game hinging on Soulbond in a Vapor Snag metagame. It isn't bad but it can be sort of neutered. Like if you opponent bounces the card it's paired with and it runs headlong into a creature that trades with it. Well always attack with the other creature preferably. Sure but enough games and maybe it's the last creature on the board and it's just a vanilla 2/2. It isn't as good as my 4 drops so it just doesn't quite make the cut. On the defense it has the same issue, if you are using a creature like Sublime Archangel to block knowing it has double Strike against like a Restoration Angel, removed here and you are down threats on attrition a game you don't want to play. Mirran Crusader ruining non-white green decks and protection from black removal still puts it over the top.
Other small creature Drops
Similar arguments hold. Viridian Emissary is a little damage. Skinshifter is like River Boa. If you ever want a good read, read Zvi's My Fires 7 part series. He can explain to you exactly why Skinshifter doesn't have any business in this deck.
Strategy
This deck is not really single game plan so sometimes the strategy gets quite complicated. Let's first look at how the deck typically wins games.
Lethal alpha-strike with some global pump effect like Hero of Bladehold/Gavony/Champion of Lambholt
Creature + some pump effect to go through with evasion
Gavony eventually makes your board considerably larger than your opponents and you win on board.
The deck actually almost always wins one of these 3 ways. It does have some good play to it, but usually drawing something above does the trick. Do you notice one thing in common? It's rarely close. It might be close on life, but the final attack is always Overrun like in proportion. You rarely are nickeling around 5 life. The Delver matchup might be the exception. What that means though is there are usually a couple phases to the game.
Phase 1
The first phase is the setup. Your goal is always to drag the opponent into your tempo. You play out your dorks into Crusaders/Swords. Developing your mana is key here so you have to be very conscious of removal. Against more controlling decks recognize this is just a foray into being able to stick threats. Evaluate what you want them to remove. Sometimes I play Champion out quickly to save my mana dork perhaps drawing removal so I can follow up with a stronger 4 drop or Crusader. Sometimes they don't bite. Sometimes I play out a bunch of dorks to push a sweeper if I have a lot of lands. Other times you only play 1 dork at a time cause too many dorks are just collateral damage from a sweeper. It is very unlikely for most decks to match you threat for threat once you get going. So here you just want to find your line to put the most pressure on. I'm usually pretty aggressive here. If you can enter a race where you are doing more damage I usually go for it. Like I don't leave my Mirran Crusaders up to block nearly as much as other people. While you want to force the opponent to use their turns to play removal, you don't want that removal to come with the life loss of them swinging through. It's almost always better to run an attacking Crusader into a Shock and have your 2nd main phase to do something than leave it up as a blocker to have it killed EoT or on their turn without having gotten in for the damage.I'd rather force them into awkward trades or both of us to lower our life totals. Even against decks where I'm clearly the control deck. The reason is for each damage you do here significantly less is needed later. Yes I might be losing time but maybe the opponent misevaluates their role and goes on the defense. With nut hands this deck can out aggro a lot of aggro decks. Also our threats are potent. Hitting with a Crusader is 4 damage. This isn't like attacking with a 2/1 like Viridian Emissary. More often than not that first hit knocks them down for more than they can knock you down for. If there wasn't the possibility to do this I would be forced to play more defensively. Admittedly it isn't always possible to be aggressive here. Sometimes you just need to stabilize and spread. This is acceptable too, but you are prepping for a longer game.
Phase 2
The next phase is when you start dropping threat after threat. Sometimes you just win the game here. Sometimes you are forced to go on the defense here (against most aggro decks this happens, since they spread out on the board faster). This part of the game is often the board stall section. No one wants to make unfavorable trades and the cards in your deck tend to make it difficult to get good aggressive trades. Hopefully the opponent starts using more removal here to try to push through. You mostly just keep playing out threats. More than likely they are only able to get small damage through. This phase is about building the most impressive board. You want everyone to use up most to all their cards in hand.
Phase 2 has the biggest variance. This is why the sideboard is designed the way it is. It is made to maximize all the phase 2 options. By making taking a very flexible phase 2 approach the deck doesn't so much focus on specific matchups but types of matchups. This makes a lot of the sideboard cards generally good across the board. When new or rogue strategies appear as long as you can properly identify the roles you should have the necessary tools. There are really 3 ways to approach phase 2:
Race: This is when you know the opponent can get to phase 3 faster or that they lack the ability to interact with you. The sideboard offers some additional quick in trumps like Sword of War and Peace here. Realistically this is in general our Plan A anyway. It is just a pure continuation of phase 1 trying to maintain that aggressive edge. You have the tools to break board stalls if you are ahead. You never really get to Phase 3 here, but no one does.
Threaten: This approach is for Control decks. You basically hit the breaks making sure that while you are consistently putting out threats to force answers you never leave yourself without a threat. Don't overextend on the board. Just keep attacking. Against these sort of decks. I play Swords or equip them post combat often since this lets me maximize my mana usage. Even if they kill my threat I got my damage in. You're just trying to avoid 2 for 1's. You want to be casting stuff as aggressively as reasonable to deplete their resources but try not to put all your eggs in one basket. The difference between this and race is pretty subtle. The key here is diversify. Crusader, Swords, Planeswalkers, Hero, and Angel all provide very different types of threats. There are very few answers that really hit everything we're doing effectively.The few pieces of removal should hopefully keep the opponent off their Phase 3 plan.
Board Control: This is the anti-aggro/midrange plan if plan A won't work. This is all about virtual card advantage. Since we go bigger we can favor bodies over removal. Having a 3/3 is like removing a 2/2. However removing that 3/3 not only removes your card but gives them their 2/2 back. This is incredibly swingy. The thing though is. If we follow up that 3/3 with a 4/4.. we've swung it back the otherway again. The thing is when they are ahead in the balance you are getting hit with 2/2's. When you are they are getting hit with 4/4's. Of course pure board stalls eventually lose favor if the opponent plays more global pump effects than you. At a certain threshold their threats tip the scales. That is why this is only temporary. The key here isn't necessarily outspread your opponent but set it up in a way that they can't stop you when you burst into your phase 3 plan. Getting tempo'd by decks that try to race you is dangerous here. The sideboard does provide some useful 2 for 1's here and some attritioning but mostly the power of main deck cards are what keep the lines here. The biggest thing to remember is if you are forced down this line you have to go much bigger, so sometimes it is still in your best interest to try push races. Champion of Lambholt and Daybreak are our trumps here main. Bonfire is huge as well.
Phase 3
The final phase only happens against Aggro/Midrange decks usually. The key to this stage is usually a matter of drawing the trumps. Archangel, Sword of War and Peace, Champion are all the keys here. This is where the deck really excels over other aggressive strategies. If you played stage 1 out right it is usually quite easy often to swing for 12+ damage even if they've been removing a lot of your key hitters. Sometimes you get here with Control too. Usually they are posed to win here but it's possible they don't have the right specific answer in hand.
Matchups
Wolf Run Ramp(MB:50/50 SB:55/45)
Hero is really good game 1, and Gavony can get there.. Post board the matchup gets better.
You have to realise you are lightening the threat density a bit here and going for the more all in approach but you have so many threats anyway. You aren't really worried about Inkmoth, you just want to get in before the Titans.
This matchup depends abit on their finishers of choice and their style of play. You might want to bring in an Ancient Grudge. You notice this plan involves getting a bit slower but becoming more threat dense. Sword is awesome in this matchup. If you ever connects with Mirran they are probably in some trouble.
Again fairly favorable matchup. Let Bonfire do the work for you. You should be able to outclass their threats quite quickly.
Gx Aggro/Pod(MB:55/45 SB:60/40)
This matchup is pretty good already. You probably might want to swap around some removal depending on their trumps. If Pod bring in Ancient Grudge etc.. I almost never lose to other green decks.
This matchup is just a race of sorts. I have no real answer for it other than the knowledge they have no real answers. Phyrexian Metamorph is huge in this matchup. I suppose I could put in more cards to race, but I figure dealing with an early Wurmocoil is about the biggest pain other than Elesh Norn. Hydra used to just trump this matchup making it quite favorable.. now I'm not sure. I need to test it more.
This matchup used to be sort of weak but it's been very good for me recently. You have to just keep pushing their removal til something sticks. This should lock up their early turn mana. The key to this match is safely getting Mirran Crusader in play. After that you play out and race with Crusader. Sword of War and Peace is huge in this matchup surprisingly especially cause we have Crusader. You really want to be able to kill any Metamorphs or Swords they run. As long as you curve lands ok you should win this. They only have the 4 tragic slips and they might have to use what's hand on all the dorks you play out the first few turns.
Just 3-1'd a daily today. Really liking the Daybreak Rangers in the board. I beat 2 Delver decks and a BR Zombie deck and lost to Esper Control. I need to test the Esper matchup more. I think it might be worse than UB since they can pull Day a lot quicker which is relevant. Maybe I need to play a different type of game against them. I used to just do the all in on Destiny line against Solar Flare.. maybe I should be doing the same here. I kept the Swords in since they have the Tokens.
With the new changes I have to say I'm a little bit surprised how well the deck transforms. It goes from an all in GW aggro deck to almost like Birthing Pod (without the Pod). I think Kiblers Birthing Pod list has all the right attrition tools and it probably isn't remarkable how similar our sideboards are. This maindeck setup though lets me get away with playing strong cards in a Vacuum since all the specification is postboard. Still happy with the deck.
Have you considered adding a couple copies of Birthing Pod to your sideboard for the control match-up? Obviously your creature base isn't built for that but if the match-up proves to be the most difficult for you (I know it was for me when I was running GW) then it might be worth it to dedicate 4-5 sideboard slots to some utility creatures a la Acidic Slime and maybe 2x Birthing Pod. You know..just something to give you inevitability against them. At least that's what I've found Pods to do when I'm playing against control.
I see you have a sb plan for Frites, but how much have you tested that match-up? I found it to be pretty difficult for me (in GW) but I also was not running the Phyrexian Metamorphs maindeck (or at all).. Do you find Metamorph or Hydra to be the better trump card for this match-up?
Yeah I've only played against Frites twice. I won both times but it felt really draw dependent. Metamorph and Oblivion Ring were pretty huge here. I think Hydra though is just unquestionably good if they don't drop an Elesh Norn T4 to kill it. If you are ahead you are gravy. I should probably bring in the Destinies. I do wonder if just a touch of GY hard could help across multiple matchups though.
Against UB the truth I think though is Primal Hunter is probably better than Pod anyway and definitely here. And I get zero value off of Pod outside podding out a Huntmaster. It might help me find my 4 drops more consistently but that isn't going to help against control. Without Titans or any late game I'm just moving around 3-4's mostly. No way to do this without dedicating significant slots. I used to run my Primal Hunters but Batterskull shores up more matchups and is equally a pain for them. I was actually thinking putting in a single Grafdiggers Cage or so would be good since it deals with so many decks in a nice way. What slot to put it in not sure.. run more than 1 not sure. I used to run Autumn's Veils but sac effects reminded me how bad those ended up being. It's still a possibility.
The thing wish Esper was I wasn't prepared for it. I didn't realize the type of deck it was. I was playing a UB game against it like how I'd approach Solar Flare and this is a Tapout Planeswalker Control deck. The tricky part about Esper is they are so good at stalling. Then if they drop the Karn you are likely in trouble especially if you had to fight through a Lilliana or 2. Lingering Souls was exactly what they were missing. They also run Consecrated Sphinx which is awkward. Grafdigger let's me stop them from using their flashback digging, flashback souls, and Snapcaster so it might be worth a consideration. But they actually don't lean on these as much. One thing I didn't realize was the deck doesn't play O-Ring so playing board control is somewhat reasonable but they do bring in their Ratchet Bombs. It's funny cause Ratchet Bomb actually isn't great against us here, but if they can buy enough time it does deal with O-Ring. It isn't even their Curses or DoJ's that are problematic. It's just incredibly easy to get stalled to oblivion. Even worse than Wx Tokens. I should have been valuing SoWaP more. This is really just Wx Tokens with Mana Leak. They hardly have any spot removal.
Interestingly according to Shaheen the worst matchup is UW Humans. Their plan is to Ratchet Bomb the Honors.. This is sort of how they sideboard against me. They bring in Despise too which is even better since I have good planeswalkers. I wonder how much weaker the deck is if you keep the Ratchet Bombs in check (since that makes the O-Rings very effective). I'm going to have to test a few things.
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Just ran a half a dozen main deck games against Esper in solo mode. Yeah now that I see the type of hands this deck has I was playing it way wrong. They will have like 2 DoJ or Lilliana's but maybe not the mana to cast them. With so little spot removal for the most part doing dork, sword, equip dork and Swing is the way to beat this deck. Usually I wouldn't set myself up for 2 for 1's against control but the deck really only has widespread answers that get better as the game goes longer. Trying to spread out on the board to force sweepers and then land a planeswalker doesn't work here. You just want to land a single good threat and pound face. They only have 4 mana leaks and no hard counters. It buys them time but if you slip under you kill them. DoJ is expensive. Landing a Hero of Bladehold against them is better than even a Planeswalker often. The deck hand combo like speed. I think a deck like Hexblade would give it convulsions. Lilliana is it's way out but if you force a sac, then follow it up they have to have the perfect mana to take over. After about T5 this deck becomes unbeatable against non-blue decks I imagine but if you set up something they can't deal with before that you are golden. Whether that's a planes walker or just knocking down 75% their life total. The reason they excel against Zombies and GR is that neither of those decks are actually that fast in critical mass. They are largely board attrition decks. Hellrider comes down like an Overrun and you get there or you don't. You have to be spread on board. This deck only has efficient answers for board spread. Toe to Toe it doesn't. If it has to DoJ every time you cast a Hydra I'd consider that fair game. That is probably why they were using their Ratchet Bombs against me postboard to kill Hydras(only need to get to 2 counters). Sword of War and Peace is so good against them.
Still this isn't a great matchup. They have their own Gideons. Gideon + Lilliana is really hard to deal with. This is definitely where I wish I had my 3rd Kessig Wolf Run back. The thing is I don't think the conventional sideboard versus control would work here. Cards like Autumn's Veil are not particularly good. This deck provides a answer variability very similar to our threat variability. Naming any single card with Nevermore probably wouldn't do the trick. So many generic hit alls that eventually the numbers sort of just balance. This decks real biggest fear would be hyper aggressive decks that just don't exist in this format. A deck like Kuldotha red would eat this deck for breakfast. Even humans on the Geist of St Traft plan probably give it a really hard time. Thrun is actually pretty decent in this matchup. Witchbane Orb actually probably would be half decent if it weren't for the cost. Really the deck can't deal with permanents well so they sort of just trump it. Mimic Vat would be good here. That again suggests pod but the problem is the deck is really good at just wiping the board. Sure you get a Strangleroot and start again but eventually you drown. Really more planeswalkers seems like the best plan. But that is tricky. This deck is a very good indicator of how powerful Lingering Souls will be when Mirran Crusader/Swords no longer are playable.
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A perhaps more alarming recent discovery I've made is that Mono Red is really hard matchup. I stopped accounting for it altogether. This might be a safe bet or perhaps there is a way to shore up multiple matchups I haven't seen. Thrun does seem like the weakest link in the deck. It's good against Mono Red and Control but maybe there is something better. So many sac effects and sweepers that Thrun isn't relevant for regen til like turn 6. I don't really care about can't be countered. Clone effects also suck. I think Strangleroot Geist might be better in this slot. While not really a threat neither is Thrun these days. But the card is good and bad in the exact same places, but it's better against decks that make Dorks worse. After doing a quick count of Geist versus Huntmaster I was thinking something like this:
Although Metamorph does play nicer with Geist as a maindeck trick. I think the numbers are too low to support that though. What I'm trying to determine now is if the 3rd Geist is better than the 2nd Destiny. Geist is interesting in that it is decent against Wolf Run unlike Thrun. It's safe to play early into Slagstorm. Although I imagine Destiny actually gets better with Geist due to curve. I like this as a board plan in general since it lets me curve swap. By lowering my curve and being more resilient I don't get bogged with expensive finishers. Bringing in more pumps or stuff like Batterskull is expensive. This also frees Hydra to played later in the game against decks where you aren't the aggressor. I think it might make the most sense given this change to swap one plain for a Forest so I now am trying 4 and 4. When I originally played 5 Plains I didn't have the Mountain, so I still have 5 basics to turn on Clifftop and 8 for Sunpetal. That cuts me down to 15G 13W and 7R but it also means I get all 12 T1 Green sources which I desire. If this tests well in the next day or so I will update the Primer. I'm still not quite sure if I should move some of the 75 around between main and board, but these 75 feel stronger.
Recently I've found that I dislike that the most popular decks are my weaker game 1 matchups. Even if I reconcile the difference game 2 it isn't really worth it. My list is very good when the most popular decks are Gx Aggro, UW Humans, and Wolf Run with a touch of Delver. But the more white tokens based decks (including Esper Control), Zombies, a ton of Delver and this deck always looks better G2. Naya has all the tools. So I want to change that. I think Kibler's Birthing Pod list is currently the closest, but I think the Pod is a trap and he is playing some less optimal choices due to that. It's really a trap sort of like the old Twin Pod deck.. it's a diversion for players that don't know better. On it's own it's a bit too slow.
I've been trying 3 Thalia Mb recently. I actually like it a lot but I think after some play with it I think Thalia works best in Naya colors. The key to Thalia is board attrition with creatures. Stuff like Huntmaster and Daybreak really give the card a lot of value. I don't mind paying 4 for an O-Ring sometimes, but more than likely it just provides more must kill targets to put pressure on. I didn't like Thalia before because I wasn't running enough of them. But I see no reason to play Pod over SoWaP or Relentless over Primal Hunter/Gideon.. the numbers just need to be trimmed.
I'm very interested right now in finding the best Thalia deck. I think it definitely needs to be GW since Thalia works best with mana dorks in my opinion. Not only do they divert removal from Thalia they are redundant in the way to jump ahead on tempo. Creatures with abilities seem to be ideal too. Especially ones that support board control since you can't avoid removal altogether cause making non-creature spells more expensive reverses the tempo jump for most pumps/Overruns. You want to win it on board with Creatures. Hero and Hydra both work great with Thalia. So do things like Spellskite. I'm still working on details and will post a list when I've tested it adequately.
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Ryan talking about zombies I got to thinking... Have you tried Red Sun's Zenith? I was playing my Jund build the last week and really perfer this cars for that match up and was actually wishing I could play it in my Justice build lol... So just a thought...
Yeah Zombies, is one of those awkward matchups since any removal you'd mainboard is sort of dead to it other than O-Ring even in Naya. There is almost no Overlap between spells good there and good against say Mirran Crusader. I don't mind Red Sun but the question is, is it better than Celestial Purge? Mainboard yes, but is it better than O-Ring main? Phyrexian Obliterator rears it's head sometimes too. I used to use it over my Incinerates for a while. Being able to fireball or kill something bothersome is useful. I think I will consider it.
I've been working on a completely different spin on my list recently. Basically all the same cards but a more middle ground main deck. That does make some matchups worse but I'm hoping that trading just a touch G1 against Wolf Run can make Delver, Zombies, and Wx Tokens atleast 50% if not better G1. The way to do this is rely less on pumps and more on bodies that battle attrition. In that sense I can afford a couple 2 drops cause I'm not really cutting the threat density down that much, just the spot removal/pump slots. I've found my self less and less being able to cast expensive spells and for them to be relevant. True Conviction I think is finally out. The number of times I've resolved it but it a turn too late has increased beyond justification now. In those situations even Wurmcoil or Inferno Titan wouldn't have done it. The option of using stuff like Timely Reinforcements to support this bigger plan seems like a complete waste when other decks can use that time to actually build board position (it was fine when it was just Mono Red). Going all in on a Destiny seems alright but if the opponent knows your plan they can play around it. Lingering Souls has made just getting there a statistical improbability.
After watching the way Kibler Sideboards with Naya Pod, and comparing to how similar the decks look to each other in each matchup post board, I think I have an idea of where I want the main deck to be. Right now I'm very in on Pumps/Hero main (good against Green decks and Humans), and have sideboard plans for Control, and Aggro/Delver/Wx Tokens. Control is actually the middle ground and Aggro the opposite. If you look at my board plans they go from almost nothing against one side to almost full 15 card transformations against the opposite. Kibler's Pod list basically starts from the opposite side and comes towards what I'm doing. So if I main board more anti-control I should be better all around. The question that remains is, would a maindeck like this actually be any good or is it too all over the place? The trick is to find the elements to tie it all together. I'm getting closer but it still requires way way more testing before I can propose anything. Luckily less than I'd expect since I'm still playing like 72 of the same 75.
Ironically as it may seem, Hydra is the one card that always does exactly what I want it to against almost every opponent(forces an answer) and works with pretty much every plan (good with Thalia, good in board stalls with Daybreak/Huntmaster, good with high pressure with Hero). It's a bit like O-Ring. Not the best card in every situation but it general fits into a need even if it is overcosted by 1 compared to the better specific card.
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Giving up the Destinies does make Wolf Run a bit worse but it's a small trade to shore up Control and Delver. Thalia isn't always great against Delver but in general it's alright all around. Even ok G1 against some aggro. Daybreak has been absolutely a beast and I think is better than going the maindeck Incinerate route. Burn is just bad in some matchups but Daybreak is always good (unless he's getting continually Vapor Snagged).
The biggest change probably has come in cutting down my top end slightly. So I'm less likely to keep going over the top (outside of Hydra). But replacing extra Gideon's and True Conviction with stuff like Batterskull and Vorapede really help put some resilience into the deck where you need it. Strangleroot Geist is there basically to side in against Delver, RDW, Zombies, and Control. I've found this gives me enough flexibility with my approach to not need stuff like Timely Reinforcements or other too niche cards.
Overall the matchups haven't change much other than Esper Control and W/x Tokens are better. Delver too really. This comes at a slightly weaker Wolf Run matchup postboard perhaps, but so far that has seemed to be the only real consequence. And Wolf Run isn't even terrible. I need to do a lot more testing before I can update the matchup numbers but it feels pretty good to be able to smash Delver, and other G/x decks, and not be completely horrible to Wolf Run or Zombies.
Interesting... So you took more of an aggro approach... Intesting to see you only went with one Gideon... I found him more useful then Garruk butl then again how is the synergy between Garruk and Hydra? Do you draw often with him on the field or does the Hydra eat removal before you can draw?
I draw off him a decent amount of the time. It's the key to some matchups. Just to play it like 5 mana draw 4 or draw 8 to find that card you need(sometimes that is Gideon, sometimes it's Sword, Huntmaster, etc). A lot of decks with chumps won't kill hydra til the last possible moment. If you ever find the opening. I've drawn 30 cards off him before but that is unusual. Against UB obviously I only get 3 or so cards, but everywhere else it's usually 4-8. Gideon is good too. The only thing with Gideon is Gideon is the cement once you've set your board or it's the overrun. Garruk let's you stabilize better even with a relatively empty board. Both are pretty similar in that it usually takes all the creatures the opponent has on board and a removal spell to kill them, but Garruk gives a different angle in different matchups.
Huntmaster is a lot like a planeswalker. I mean it isn't resilient in the same way but it reminds me a lot of a better Garruk Relentless. In a sense I don't need that many Gideons. Obviously this puts me more of a dog to midrange strategies, but Daybreak actually covers the slack very well. I want to run more, but I'd have to cut a Hydra to do that. It's doable it just Hydra works so much better in multiples. Daybreak is like the best Corrosive Gale ever. Hydra's weakest matchup is Spirits I have now confirmed (Daybreak's strongest) so there is some argument there. The deck just has too many chump blockers and can still play that annoying Snag game, but has the potential to reach critical mass around the same time. Maybe there is still some more play in the sideboard. Perhaps trading one Huntmaster for a GSZ makes sense. This is a cheap easy way to up my Daybreak, and Strangleroot Geist numbers at miminal cost. And a way to fish out Vorapede.
I guess I've gone more aggro. But I've always played it that way. The deck doesn't actually play that different for me. The amount of times I was really dropping 6's was so minimal anyway in this format. Adding Thalia in place of a few more expensive hard to kill spells is about even trade. It just makes my other creatures better in their place (removal is more expensive). It's a tempo gain sort of like a mana dork. I mean what are our worst G1 matchups. I think Thalia pretty much improves all of them significantly except Zombies, but isn't even terrible here. If you look I actually am still running 17 just big must kill type of cards versus 19 I had before but add Daybreak Ranger as another potential 4/4 etc and you really are in the same realm. Thalia let's me get away with cutting some pump and removal main. Why do all this? Seriously Delver is better than a lot of people give it credit. Or rather most Delver pilots are not good. But once you face good Delver pilots it isn't enough just to hope they don't out tempo you perfectly. The matchup is probably worse than advertised especially G1 but because so many people play it and aren't good it gets masked. Really that is the problem I've had with the GW plan in general (especially G1), Delver will beat you and no number of larger drops changes that. You can just bank on the opponent misvaluing their role or your cards, but that only works with weaker players.
Anyway I basically took what I felt the best parts of Naya Pod and added it to my deck. It actually wasn't that big of a change. I noticed that Naya Pod basically does the role we're trying to do in the metagame. Punish other midrange decks/aggro decks(the ones that beat Delver), while keeping a decent anti aggro/Delver matchup ourselves. Unfortunately Naya Pod is still too small to beat Wolf Run. We aren't but we truthfully are really only close to 50/50 on our worst matchups even afterboard, and Naya Pod is better against those matchups. I decided that in general going quick and big is good when it works but less stellar when you are completely out of the game against certain opponent's nut draws. After losing a several games after landing Gideon/True Conviction out of no misplay of mine I decided I was being slightly too ambitious to hang on so many 5-6's now. Truthfully it would require 25 lands and I didn't feel that would make the deck strong enough. I'd have to invest more in complete trumps(6's) and the potential consistency would go down. I'd have to play the game of what is good this week too. Inferno Titan, Wurmcoil, Elesh Norn, etc.. These cards aren't universally as effective in all matchups which is hard for a finisher when it is competing with much more flexible 4-5's. That and the realization that Thrun kind of sucks right now and Strangleroot Geist is basically pretty much just better. Not good enough as a threat on it's own but good enough at what you want Thrun to do. I tried main decking but it was the still abysmal feel I felt about Geist before. Just so unimpressive. Definitely a worse MB card for this sort of deck than Thrun who is a 4/4 and big on board, but I found it quite nicely took spaces up that I'd use for stuff like Timely Reinforcements and extra Thrun. This actually saved me sideboard slots while being useful in more matchups. Any sideboard plan that generally uses creatures is much better for us anyway since it is often creatures that come out.
So yesterday I did the worst I've done with this deck ever in the last 6 months. I beat a UR control, and then lost to Delver, Zombies, then RDW. Part of it was misplays on my part since I was used to playing a certain way, the others were just some fundamental mistakes in deck construction I didn't notice. Ironically the more I've changed the deck the better I've done online but the worst IRL.
Any way I have come to 3 observations:
1. Kessig Wolf Run > Gavony Township... except against Delver
This one should be pretty obvious, but it is annoying. I even prefer Kessig against Control. Delver just will never get the chance to connect. Gavony is so essential to any board based deck to beat delver that runs so many Dorks. As good as GR aggro is against Delver it is their pure speed and spread that does it and not the Kessigs. You don't really get the chance to force Checkmate like positions against that deck. You just overwhelm them. It is really a huge part of Naya Pod lists being able to fight Delver even with the anti-synergy with Strangleroot Geist. Delver isn't going to punish you for it atleast.
2. Mirran Crusader > Blade Splicer except when cloning effects are involved
This is related to number 1. See if you have Gavony clones will never be as good against you especially of first strikers. But it's awkward to have to face a cloned Mirran against a more aggressive deck when yours isn't any better. My old lists were so much over the top I could usually just leverage my power that way. By cutting my power to play a more close to board game to improve Delver, the clones are better for them. Kessig doesn't give you the trump although it does shoot images. It's especially awkward when the card beats most of your deck. Zombies did this to me too and I didn't have the Grudge in hand. When you go to the Huntmaster and Daybreak plan you can't even target the Mirran copy. I also cut down the main deck ways to deal with it. This would be ok, but I made a few mistakes where I valued Thalia too high. Thalia will trade with a Mirran and if given the chance you probably should. It's only a 2 drop and the other threats in the deck are better. I still think Mirran is better but it is something to be aware of.
3. Current Naya manabase sucks
Ok I've spent a lot of time on this. But even I knew it before. I was always careful not to go too heavy on red, but I mean how do you do a Huntmaster/Daybreak plan with only 7 red sources. Naya Pod is no different and just as bad. Maybe the pod cheats it. But I mean Kibler boards the Pods out and boards in basically 6-7 additional red spells. It sometimes works. Sometimes it doesn't. The most annoying part is the decks that kill your dorks you want the red. Delver gave up Gut Shots for a while so it was good but that is no longer the case. Naya manabases need to adapt. They need more red sources. Especially lists that maindeck 4 Huntmasters.. seriously it isn't sufficient. However, to get more fixing means more tapped lands. I think given that I have no choice but to embrace more 2 drops.. It sucks but I think ultimately it will give better hands. I wouldn't run more than 4 main (2/2 Thalia Geist split). I figure it's like the 4 Chimeric Idols in Fires of Yavimaya. Ultimately weak but serve an important functionality. Basically it gives you options when your T2 land is tapped. Getting T1 for the dork isn't bad but you might not get 2 or 3 so the deck if it is to have enough fixing needs enough 2's. Yes Naya Pod already is on that but it is a decent change for me. I think the trick to the mana might be to use Evolving Wilds.. basically like the way Esper Delver does. They use less lands than us but they use less utility lands. With 21 lands they can fix all their colors. I'm not sure how detrimental this is but I'm definitely looking into it. I lost one Zombie game and 2 Mono red games by never getting a red source.
In basic I think there are a lot of good options in these colors but I think we're nowhere near as advanced as Delver decks and there is still a lot of work to do.
Mana is 17G 13W and 8 R. 11 T1 G to support 6 mana dorks. With the lower curve there wasn't as much need for Dork slots. This curves out more like the ALA-ZEN Naya decks. It lets me fight on the ground more. Zombies Matchup is significantly better now as well as most aggro especially Delver. Ramp matchup with the addition of Thalia actually stays about the same. Tokens is still a not great G1 and cutting a Sword and an O-Ring doesn't improve that(although they didn't always do much anyway) but more sideboard spots make that matchup better. Gideon Jura actually has been really good in this deck. I'm actually thinking of trying to find room for a 2nd in the board. With more of a board presence it really does help me fight it out, especially against control. Relentless Deathtouch Wolves + Gideon is pretty sick. Given curve concerns though the numbers look about right to me.
It occurs to me now though that this is really no longer the same deck...
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This deck however, is pretty weak to other green decks which are starting to show up. There is still lots of work to be done.
I think I've made the deck too weak trying to focus on Delver I need to meet somewhere in the middle. Strangleroot Geist is really good in some matchups but you only need a couple ever.. like 1 or 2 early game. Similarly you only really need a couple Huntmasters too and not all the time. They are the type of cards that you want to fix certain situations. Like worried about playing into Day, Sac effects, extra attacker for the win or if you are low on life and need to spread on board. They aren't generally good cards all the time. The biggest thing is they have immediate impact. They aren't the most threatening but they have utility. Using this I realized that I never really wanted 4 Huntmasters or 4 Geists. But with 2 GSZ I easily fill the curve. I get the Geist early enough when I want it, and I can fetch out Huntmasters. It lowers my chance of drawing dead Huntmasters (like against Wolf Run) or dead Geists (against pretty much anyone) but lets me have ample chances of drawing them still against Delver. The reason I still play multiple Daybreak is I don't really typically GSZ for it. It's more just a pure numbers thing. By playing it out this way I figure I can shed some sideboard slots back to how they used to be. Mainly I don't need the 4th Huntmaster and I gave up the 3rd Hydra, and 2nd Vorapede, this allows me to put in Garruk Primal Hunter, and 2 Angelic Destinies. Garruk Relentless was meh at best and I just wanted the removal back. Where I want Garruk I want the real thing. GSZ+Vorapede+Sword gives me decent game against most control decks that are spot removal light, this balances not running so many Planeswalkers and in so I have more room to play around main for Delver. I do see that I am lowering the power level in a sense with only running 3 Heros and 2 Hydra, but Metamorphs have been covering the distance and where Hero is best Destiny is sweet.. Quite often you can get it on something like a Strangleroot Geist (after a wrath) and just go the distance. I did try lists without Hydra but I started running into these situations where I couldn't force my end game off Heros alone. Hero is still generally better for race situations but Hydra provides this sort of inevitability you don't have to worry about trading to get value from it. It is a lot better in a world of Naya/GR aggro. Even versus cards like Act of Aggression you still get the bonus first.. if it ticks up to lethal you get the attack.. if it isn't lethal as long as the board state is fairly even you should be able to survive it, and then it upticks and you swing back. The fact it isn't cloneable is so huge I can't over emphasize that more.
Although this setup is strong enough I think I can cut the Thalia's. The problem I was having was G1 against Delver/Zombies, and a better plan against Esper.. Vorapede and GSZ sort of solve both the best..
Now that spoilers are done.. so far I think the cards I'm most interested in for this archetype from the new set are:
Champion of Lambholt:
This creature is great as a GSZ target with Hero of Bladehold. Decent early play. More than likely I will trade my Primordial Hydras for this in some number since it does what you want faster. Most of the time it's the Trample you want from the Hydra to break board stalls not the size (only relevant against Frites). So this seems like a better easier way to break board stalls. Gives you late mana dorks more value.
Bonfire of the Damned
I tried to run Slagstorm and Whipflare before and settled on Daybreak Ranger.. This is better than all those options and exactly the missing piece to make certain matchups hugely favorable.
Wolfir Silverheart
This is a big swing to get a lot of power on board. Suddenly you have 2 Titans.. It might be better than Angelic Destiny given it can be GSZ.. Definitely worth looking at as a GSZ target.
Zealous Conscript
Only a single red and Human.. doesn't put any strain on the mana for a very swingy effect.. Might just be better than the 3rd Oblivion Ring.
Cavern of Souls
Fixes some of the more awkward mana requirements like the single red for Huntmaster and the double white for Mirran Crusader and Hero. Not counterable is relevant cause it lets you slam down your Huntmaster much sooner against Delver, and force the Day out of control. Control decks haven't been playing much spot removal. If they move away from permission I might just bring more planeswalkers back to punish them, but I have a feeling they won't change that much and it will still be a matter of forcing sweepers.
Anyway this is the current list I'm testing. It's similar to my recent pre-AVR lists. I upped the GSZ count since it's more useful and basically makes my game 1's stronger where I want them to be(Zombies, Delver, 2 of the harder matchups). Lambholt Champion makes tokens and Human matchups stronger so it's almost like a fetchable SoWaP here. I'm starting to update the Primer.
Yeah I've been away for 2 weeks on vacation in Italy. So finally got back and now have some time to work out some things. As always working with the mana. Cavern is way harder to build with than people give credit. I mean I don't want to cut down my utility lands. I am pretty sure 3 Gavony Townships is the way to go. 2 Kessigs was fine but when you have a deck that wants Gavony you really want it. It isn't like top decking a pump like Kessig is. It's a developing game plan. The latest thing I'm trying again is Shimmering Grotto. I tried this before and was displeased but I think it's better with Cavern than Evolving Wilds. Once you remove the M12 duals mostly you actually only really get the Scars lands in tapped later which is necessary. The biggest benefit is replacing off color basics. I can't convince myself to run 4 Caverns.. it's just too awkward sometimes. I'm really worried about red sources post board. Even main to support non-creature spells. I want 6 min. I don't care if the mana to play a red spell is inefficient since it falls on the answer side of the curve. Also with Cavern you don't really want to get too much into types. Strangleroot Geist is still borderline awkward. Even the extra 14 G Source helps I think. I also think 7 colorless is the max 24 lands can handle. This is probably as greedy as I go but being able to play 3 Gavony's, and still have that extra push (the 14th G, the 13th White with Cavern, and the 6th Red) makes it work I think.
That leaves me with an extra spot again. Hard choice. A 2nd Wolfir Silverheart sounds ok.. rounding out some numbers, but maybe I should pay more attention to Delver. Maybe Wolfir Avenger is worth it's salt and should be in there. Just it feels a bit like Thrun for a deck that wants to be all Huntmaster. And I can still trump it head to head. I also don't really want to get into 1 of territory with Acidic Slime I don't think. I think Wolfir Silverheart is a bit like Angelic Density that isn't all loss when bounced. I wonder if it's enough to actually push control matchups in an interesting way. If you go heavy sword against them, even an unpaired Wolfir on the board presents a dangerous situation.. you don't have to extend out of the board. You just force them to deal with a 4/4.. If they try to fight you with permanents trump them, and force the sweeper. Well more to test. I just got back, so time to play catchup.
EDIT: Might seem like jank but I'm trying Abundant Growth in place of some lands. This is a risky proposition but it does give the deck a bit of velocity while fixing much like explore did.. Sure it doesn't ramp but it gives you access to the color right away like Shimmering Grotto and possibly draws you into more action.
hey ryan, how are your matchups with token walker decks?
Depends on how many O-Rings.. artifact removal they play. I find Vorapede + Sword very effective. So you keep baiting them with your threats. They tend to tap out so punish them for it. I had a really hard time with the matchup until I added GSZ for Geist and Vorapede. I started changing my game into setting up these situations that I wouldn't lose to a Consecrated Sphinx or they lose if they DoJ. Generally Sorin isn't much of a threat, but Gideon is the hardest card to deal with other than Sphinx. They tend to play low spot removal (or atleast used to). So I could usually leverage an early Mirran Crusader really far. Curse isn't the worse thing or Lilliana. If they go heavy O-Ring then I guess I bring in 1 Ray of Revelation to deal with it and the Curse. The game can be a bit of a grind and I definitely don't put the matchup as very favorable (as in general any DoJ heavy Lingering Souls deck is largely my Achilles heal if I don't have the right stuff and they do), but their manabase often punishes themselves as much as mine and I only need to just get out the door with a threat or so early to push the game back to a point where they are tapping out.
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This is another sketch I'm trying. Cutting the GSZ for just more of the good cards. The premise is basically Wolfir Avenger is better than Strangleroot Geist. I'm not sure this actually true. But if so it seems like a much better 3 drop than GSZ for Geist. This also makes Daybreak Ranger a lot weaker. I don't even need it out of board with stuff like Bonfire. The only surgical GSZ targets then become Wolfir Silverheart and Champion of Lambholt. Silverheart at 6 is a hard sell with GSZ and sucks against Delver anyway. Silverheart is really good against Wolf Run. Better than even Zealous Conscript. I like it better than the 3rd Sword main in that it's a body itself. Champion of Lambholt is trickier inclusion. The only place I really don't like it is against Curse of Death's Hold. This is much like what I was running pre DKA except Huntmaster has secured the midrange main deck. I think this list might be too weak in a couple areas but not leaning on GSZ so hard actually makes many more of the spells playable and Cavern better. Cavern Names Human mostly, but Wolf is reasonable. With this plan Metamorph loses some value. I can already do a lot with my own threats, and Wolfir Avenger does a good job at forcing awkward blocks with Geist of St Traft which was the main reason to run Metamorph main. To hedge it a bit more I've added one Bonfire main. It's versatile enough I think it's an ok 1 of. The final thing is using Abundant Growth for velocity. I think given the fixing and lack of tapped lands I can actually swap out land slots for it pretty much straight up. This might sound risky but it seems to work.
Keep in mind this is still very phase 1 idea. Whereas the main list i'm testing is an adaption of my newer lists. This is the one where I just try a bunch of new cards. Anyway here is the idea:
I've been toying with a very similar deck to this, but in my control spots I've been utilizing Ulvenwald Tracker. Its uses are quite impressive, especially against decks where you can ramp out something bigger, faster. Not to mention he's great against a T1 Bird or for handling a pesky Delver (with help if flipped). Similarly, a pair of Garruk Relentless really help solidify green's control elements.
I'm a bit curious as to the direction of your most recent deck, since it's leaning a lot more closely toward my build. I'm still trying the Champion of Lambholt in the place of the Wolfir Avenger, though, because I see that card being potentially sick. That's why I'm also running Blade Splicers. I've even been considering Mayor of Avabruck, since the majority of the deck is Human. He doesn't even need to flip. My main concern is that I may be overvaluing the Champion in a meta where she won't survive as a 1/1 for long enough to get that first counter.
Has Gideon really been working out for you? He seems nice, but I'd think the Silverheart of Zealous Conscripts might make the better 5 drop, depending on your meta. Lastly, Bonfire of the Damned is amazing, and I've gone from running 2 SB to 1:1 split, to 2 MD. It's just too good to leave out, even without Miracle making it crazier.
it worked when i tested it. just wanting to see some comments on it. BTW, i really dont like swords in my deck.
i would really appreciate help in my lands. Seems off to me
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Current decks
BR Zombies 28-12-2
RWB Tokens 11-1-0
Currently Brewing:
Naya Agro
Retired Standards
GW Humans 40-18-6
GBUW Tokens 21-9-5
GW Agro 13-10-1
UR Delver 4-2-2
Mono White Humans 12-4-4
I've been toying with a very similar deck to this, but in my control spots I've been utilizing Ulvenwald Tracker. Its uses are quite impressive, especially against decks where you can ramp out something bigger, faster. Not to mention he's great against a T1 Bird or for handling a pesky Delver (with help if flipped). Similarly, a pair of Garruk Relentless really help solidify green's control elements.
I'm a bit curious as to the direction of your most recent deck, since it's leaning a lot more closely toward my build. I'm still trying the Champion of Lambholt in the place of the Wolfir Avenger, though, because I see that card being potentially sick. That's why I'm also running Blade Splicers. I've even been considering Mayor of Avabruck, since the majority of the deck is Human. He doesn't even need to flip. My main concern is that I may be overvaluing the Champion in a meta where she won't survive as a 1/1 for long enough to get that first counter.
Has Gideon really been working out for you? He seems nice, but I'd think the Silverheart of Zealous Conscripts might make the better 5 drop, depending on your meta. Lastly, Bonfire of the Damned is amazing, and I've gone from running 2 SB to 1:1 split, to 2 MD. It's just too good to leave out, even without Miracle making it crazier.
Yeah Champion of Lambholt can be miserable unless you have something else. The Mayor is an interesting way to leverage it but I've never been happy with the Mayor in the slightest. The tricky part is even with running a threat density like we do, due to the high number of mana dorks and mana sources in general we might be left with it as the only real threat we have and that is probably insufficient. Playing against Curse of Death's Hold is absolutely miserable with him. He's as bad as a mana dork there. I was running GSZ and he was sick.. but after cutting GSZ it hasn't been lining up as I wanted and I don't want to hit multiples. I have 2 in the sideboard of my latest list, but maybe they should be something else. I would point out without Swords or pump you can't even run Lambholt's backup plan.. Ie.. unblockable threat on it's own.. Not that this is particularly good plan but when you are all in on him, you want him to be useful even if it's all you have.
Tracker is another card I considered but I think while better than people think, he's still harder to use than you'd expect. You still have to wait to untap. I've had Delver players keep me off Daybreak Ranger full games. Daybreak can shoot fliers without trading, and bigger things when if flips. Tracker needs something bigger.. I mean even trading a Blade Splicer Token for a flipped Delver while reasonable is still a tempo cost in mana and lose the advantage of Blade Splicer. The hardest thing about it for me is that it takes slots. If I were already a GSZ deck maybe a 1 of could be reasonable since if I have a 4/4 drop that guy pretty much takes over.. Then again Daybreak sort of can do that by itself if given the right time. I mean other than Hero of Bladehold or Wolfir, you are going to need to flip a Huntmaster to get it to happen anyway. I can picture getting multiple trackers and having a pretty mediocre hand. You cut a mana dork for 1 of them understandably, but maybe the mana dorks better if it means you can just get that much farther ahead. There are matchups where I want to attrition but maybe those are the same matchups that Champion of Lambholt just blows it open.
As you've noticed I have cut Gideon for the 5 drop creatures in the last 2 builds.. I originally had Zealous Conscripts main but I think Wolfir Silverheart might just be generally better. Zealous Conscript is only aggressive move where Silverheart can be defensive.. You get a huge swing in and a big blocker and the threat of lethal the next turn. Similarly I've moved to playing Bonfire main as well.. only as a 1 of because I still think instant speed removal is important the way we do battle on the board. Bonfire also isn't always great against Control or Zombies.
In general when I look at your list it's the:
3 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Champion of Lambholt
section that seems the most skeptical about. These are all pure synergy type of pieces.. For me Blade Splicer and Wolfir Avenger are similar types of cards and I went with the Wolfir, but it feels that Champion is replacing your biggest beats at 3 in either Mirran Crusader or Silverblade Paladin. This seems like a huge downgrade most of the time. You also are running Mayor/Tracker instead of Swords and the 8th dork. This plan might work decent against Delver or creature based decks but I think it all pushes you to be less explosive and more dependent on the board against decks that play sweepers.
it worked when i tested it. just wanting to see some comments on it. BTW, i really dont like swords in my deck.
i would really appreciate help in my lands. Seems off to me
I'm a little surprised you don't like swords in your list. I mean I have gone between different numbers usually settling on 3.. but generally the free wins and the different dimension they provide is useful. Sometimes you just have to race. Mind you playing large creature based trumps easily replaces them (Wolfir Silverheart, Elesh Norn, Gisela). Unfortunately those usually are more expensive to play and in so you can run into difficulties in consistency. As for mana you are short on white to run Silverblade Paladin (you want atleast 2 more white sources), but that isn't the decks biggest hardship. Your curve is probably too high.. I know you run a lot of dorks but if those dorks don't survive you are positioned to curve to 4.. you have 11 5+ drops. Your 1 to 3 plan seems solid enough.. There are going to be plenty of games where either you don't have the Huntmaster, or they DoJ after you play your 4 mana drop (killing your dorks, and Huntmaster etc).. and then you get stuck at 4 lands with a Gisella, Elesh Norn, and Wurmcoil in hand. 3 7 drops is pretty ambitious.
At a minimum you need to cut 1 of the 5+ drops for a 25th land. In practice I would say probably cut 3 more for 3 more 4 drops. 7 5+ drops is probably a more reasonable place to be.
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I personally went with the blade splicer over the crusader for a couple reasons, it chumps the crusader against some one else, B Easier to cast, C Synergy with champ of lambholt, D Synergy with Gavony.
Chose Garruk Primal Hunter in the deck because when this deck draws it is never anything less than amazing.
Druid's repo, is there as a two of because of how it interacts with mana fixing if needed, gavony with even just a couple creatures in play as well as some where to sink mana into in the case i just want to close out the game with RSZ.
I have thinking about Entrant the angels or WSZ as well but they are much more win more and disruptable than RSZ
Seriously thinking about removing the 1 of Thalia from the MB for something else, just unsure what, possibly another borderland ranger.
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Blade Splicer shouldn't really be compared to Mirran Crusader.. It's much more comparable to Wolfir Avenger. Champion of Lambholt is a better comparison since both are very capable agressive creatures. Mirran Crusader has always been about how you leverage it's double strike. I mean they are equal gain with Gavony Township, but given any sort of pump Mirran Crusader is an aggressive force.
I used to run Primal Hunter like crazy.. 4 ofs.. The format has finally got more powerful to the degree that I found I want my 5's to straight up win rather than draw me other good cards. 5 Mana isn't a setup point anymore but a winning point. Stuff like Wolfir Silverheart and Zealous Conscripts just do a lot of work. I did have them in the sideboard for control but I find Vorapede actually stupidly good there, especially with Swords. Basically Lingering Souls made the card way way way worse. Having a giant trampling undying creature pretty much let's you own the midgame even facing whatever they throw at you. I started noticing I was bringing in a bunch of 5's and I couldn't afford to bring in more so I went to Relentless.. I like Primal Hunter way more but it's cost prohibitive.
Your list seems reasonable on curve. I do wonder if Druid's Repository is really a necessary speedbump. Similar with Borderland Ranger. It's good value, but it's not all that impressive at 3. With GSZ it's an easy argument I suppose, other than is it the color fixing that is needed at 4. The 1 Thalia seems more than anything a randomizing factor. It doesn't help that you probably want 2 more white sources to support it and Hero of Bladehold.
Finally, I tried Entreat, also I used to have WSZ as a 1 of when I was playing a heavier white version. First of all you mana does not really support Entreat.. I guess you hope the Repository pays off at that point. If I was playing a Repository deck I guess I'd consider it, but without the miracle cost it's pretty hard to cast with the triple white. Even miracle'd you have to remember you have to cast it immediately so to get more than 1 angel you need you need to have 5 mana in play when you untap. I find these decks often get to around there, but more often than not the situations you really can benefit more than that is actually far and in between, situations where yeah getting a miracle is insane but shouldn't really be part of the regular game plan. I honestly think Bonfire is a much better card.
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Anyway in general I think Midrange decks are some of the trickiest to make since you have a lot of room to use different good cards. The beauty of these decks is they can cast pretty much any powerful 3-5 drop you want and play them at a decent density. The problem is it really is a matter of timing to figure out what works. It is very easy to make a failing midrange deck. You have the greatest chance of missing your mark. It isn't something you can goldfish exactly, and it isn't like control where you can just picture the perfect end state. You kind of have to do both. You both need to figure out what your fastest goldfishes are and how likely you are to get them and figure out what sort of end game you can present and identify what beats it and how likely that is. Then you have to figure out to what degree you can improve either side without compromising the other side too much. The biggest thing to accept I think is that since someone will likely have a better end game than you upping your ability to be an aggro deck if needed is probably your biggest asset. Having too many situational answers and not being straight forward enough is the biggest trap. Singular cards capable of taking the most life aggressively or force bad trades have the highest value. Mike Flores talks about how playing The Rock is usually the wrong choice and I agree. It is also often best to just go to 4 ofs even in a deck with so much power behind each situationally for predictability even if cards are basically acting as splits. I have a really hard time with this. I think it might be more excusable in the removal department but it's a lot better to know what to expect. GSZ really makes this hard. Cause suddenly some 1 ofs look favorable. But I guess Legacy Maverick is still the best example of such a deck with all those solid 4's.. and maybe 5 1 ofs. Anyway I digress..
EDIT: Keep forgetting to mention Mirran Crusader is the 4 drop Planeswalker killer. Garruk's/Sorin are rendered pretty much useless against it. Makes it hard to protect Lilliana (since the heavy black requirement might mean the blockers are black).
I see what you mean on repo being a card that may not be worth the speedbump, and i agree. There are definatly games i want it gone. there are others where i want it just to act somewhat like a shrine with the RSZ.
the RSZ is actually a metacall, my LGS is being overran by planes walker control in 3 different versions, Team america, esper and junk. in all three versions champ is just that... a champ because its easy to get through the wall of tokens with her.
rsz also helps get that small amount of reach in the case that i get slowed down enough to where they can take the game.
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I was trying to run Mayor of Avabruck as a living anthem for the humans, but it's just so fragile in this meta that it's hard to rationalize. Instead, I'm trying out a singleton Mikaeus, the Lunarch and adding back the 8th dork. So far, testing has proven that the added consistency (and Mikaeus's flexibility on the curve) have been great assets.
I'm still torn on whether to use more burn, especially since Garruk Relentless and Ulvenwald Tracker really are green removal. I've got a couple Volt Charges in the side to supplement the 2 Bonfires MD, but ... I still wonder if they're the right call. Instant speed is so nice, as is proliferate if I've got counters somewhere. But otherwise, Arc Trail is so potent in this meta, and Incinerate is so well positioned to handle threats at a cheaper cost. Then there's the option of Combust in the side if I want to be narrower but more powerful. What do you guys think on this issue?
The more I think about it I think I am going to add two Sword of Feast and Famine to my deck instead of the repositories.
Does a couple things that the repo doesn't, untaps lands, and forces them to lose cards, which is CA to me. easily swapped out to a more agressive game against control with sword of WaP... shall test and see how i like it, iether way the added toughness/power will be nice.
also allows the age old t2 sword play with all the dorks i run.
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This is a primer for a deck you have never heard of. That is because it is a deck of my creation and I'm the sole pilot of it thus far. It has not 4-0'd any daily events nor top 8'd any large tournaments. However, it has been a steady force for me for the last 6 months and I feel it is completed enough that I can properly write a guide for it. Although my record of FNM wins probably matters very little to the people of the forum, the deck did get me 15th at States this year, and 9th at the Vancouver stop of the Canadian Magic Tour. So let me present you the list.
The List
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Forest
4 Plains
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Gavony Township
Creatures(30):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Blade Splicer
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Champion of Lambholt
4 Restoration Angel
3 Sublime Archangel
3 Hero of Bladehold
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Geist-Honored Monk
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Spells(4):
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Dismember
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Arc Trail
1 Celestial Purge
2 Oblivion Ring
3 Triumph of Ferocity
3 Sword of War and Peace
2 Zealous Conscripts
Why Play this Deck?
Yes this is basically a 3 color GWr Aggro deck. At it's core it's a GW Aggressive Midrange deck that in many ways looks a lot like the GW lists that were popular in the fall (although it predates them). The small red splash gives a bit of range in sideboarding to combat the traditional issues GW has. If you look at the traditional favorable matchups for GW and GR they cover pretty much the whole metagame. This deck is really about leveraging the best of both worlds. I will get into the card choices in a moment, but first let's look at what motivation one would have to pick up such a list.
Why?
Why Not?
This list irks people because it is designed in a way you have to trust your deck implicitly. As with typical GW decks it seems your worst enemy is your own draws. This deck sets to maximize the potential of your draws. People will call you a lucksack. This deck is designed to make the player playing it lucky. It just means you always have to play to your outs and trust you will draw it. Some people criticized Kibler for just lucking out in his match against Finkel at PT DKA. That's a perfectly acceptable way to win and his deck was designed to be more likely to do so. This deck maximizes that even further. This deck puts variance on your side. I win often by being "luckier." Basically all things decided before the match.
I should mention that this deck still takes skill to play. I underestimate my skill playing it cause of my familiarity with this type of deck and this one in specific. The real skill to have is being able to make snap judgement on board states. Like determining how much damage you can do over X turns. You have to be able to envision lots of combat math atleast a couple turns ahead otherwise likely you are not playing the deck aggressively enough. You have to be able to anticipate opponents plays pretty well especially tempo plays since you may not have all the instants but you have to know how to play to expect them and strong arm them on board. That doesn't mean you can play the deck face up, but playing like you could potentially puts weaker opponents into a false sense of security.
Card Choices
The Mana
This is by far the most important part of the deck. It took the most work to get just right. It comes from an understanding that the deck exists in 2 worlds: The world where mana dorks survive and the world where they do not. This is no revelation for anyone who has piloted a 1-3 mana deck like this and has found themselves with no 2 mana play. What might be less obvious is how detrimental this is on mana fixing. For example the GW lists like Juza's were designed for a world where Mana Dorks exist. They did not play enough white mana to support all their double white costs in a world where they did not exist.
So let's first look at the lands:
It is very easy to see this deck has 11 green sources, 10 white sources, and 6 red sources. Purely off this you can see there are enough red sources to support a couple 1 cost red spells, and enough white sources to support double white late game and Gavony Township. The interesting part is Cavern of Souls which for humans ups these numbers to 15G, 14W, and 10R. Enough to support Mirran Crusader, Sublime Archangel and Hero of Bladehold along with Huntmaster of the Fells or Zealous Conscripts if warranted.
The most important part of the green sources are definitely the turn 1 green sources. This deck has 11 which shies a bit away from the ideal 12 I would like. However, it is still better than Naya 3 color lists were playing during Alara(although not as good as Bant during that time). Cavern ups this number to 15 T1 G for Avacyn's Pilgrim. Meaning the numbers are still pretty favorable. The numbers of white are especially essential for the world where Dorks don't live and having the right number of red sources also is essential to the deck.
I will take a moment here to talk about the dual lands. I have opted for 8 Scars dual lands and 2 Core/Inn duals. This is a very important consideration. It is obvious the deck wants a high number of Scars duals to satisfy fixing and early green. Once you get beyond about 6-7 of these Core/Inn duals become a liability. Cavern only amplifies this effect. It is quite possible to get draws where you have a mix of only duals and not enough lands coming in untapped to curve out properly. Going to 8 Scars was actually easy from this point since the deck really only needs to get to 4 or 5 quite possible with Borderland Ranger so late game this doesn't matter as much. So even in a world without dorks as long as you have a Kessig, Cavern, or Basic to play by T4 or on T4 you should curve to 4 quite nicely. I don't need to make guarentees past that. With a single dork that brings you to 5 which is where you want to be. Past that coming in to play tapped isn't nearly as important as the early fixing you recieved.
Kessig is the reason I started playing red in this deck. It plays nice with the large number of creatures in the deck and is especially potent making sure Swords hit, making Mirran Crusader an unstoppable aggressive force, improving Garruk's ability to draw cards, and most importantly ending board stalls. It's like a fireball on a land and it makes any body into a threat no matter how insignificant. It makes our dorks worth something. Kessig also kills Phantasmal Images which are a pain for the deck. Gavony is still the superior card against Delver, and ultimately made the cut instead.
This mind you has been in a world without dorks. We play this standard set of dorks:
Nothing out of the ordinary here. This is very much like the classic birds + elves base. The fact the Pilgrim makes white is really nice though given where dorks live you just need the green mana to get going for the most part to hit double white T2. In a world with dorks survive the mana looks a lot nicer with 20 green sources, 22 white sources, and 14 red sources. That's high enough to even support double red in some conditions. The dorks play multipurpose by funneling mana early and be recepticals for our pump mid to late game. They aren't the best top deck but they aren't useless. They can get in on Sublime Archangel's Exalted or push the final damage with an activated Kessig against a deck heavy on removal.
And that completes our 32 mana sources. That's more than half the deck the rest of the deck better be pretty potent.
The 3's
These are the way you leverage the 1 to 3 jump, but are strong enough to be good draws late.
3 Mirran Crusader
Now someone right now be pointing out how Mirran Crusader is just dead to a Shock, or can be blocked all day by Blade Splicer. It doesn't matter. Nothing leverages a broken stalemate better. I recently asked on the general standard forum name a non-white permanent that truly trumps Mirran Crusader under 5CMC. There were a few answers and even fewer that could stand up to Slagstorm. This card owns the the midrange. You've never seen Humans cut it even with their extreme competition around 3 mana. Yet GW players seemed to think otherwise. If you can cast this guy(hence the importance of mana) he is worth it even if he can die. Strangleroot Geist is close but the relevant protections and damage just push him ahead. Mirran + any pump is a game ender late game. Add a Sword, Gavony activation, Hero battle cry.. you name it he's a force to be reckoned with. The reason he fits so well in this deck is he is both a decent aggressive and defensive force on the board since mana for mana his creature power sticks him ahead. The protections mean that it is very hard to even slam a 4 drop that he really cares about it's size. He's a natural force against planeswalkers killing all the ones under 5 mana instantly in 1 swing even through their defensive measures (unless he's alone against Lilliana). (*Pre Ajani)
He has recently been outclassed by Blade Splicer with it's interaction with Restoration Angel, but Sublime Archangel switches this around again. With enough pump access this card is still a big contender and protection from black and green as relevant as ever as green decks get more popular and so does Dismember and Doom Blade.
4 Blade Splicer
While less of a force than Mirran Crusader it is much easier to cast and is great in an aggressive metagame. Restoration Angel was really the saving grace for this card. It's the Rhox War Monk of the deck. Just powerful enough for inclusion. Bonfire and the metagame in general gives it a slight nod over the considerably better Mirran Crusader.
The Heavy Hitters
This deck plays several cards that can just end the game almost immediately in any combination.
3 Sublime Archangel
This card used to be the Swords or Angelic Destiny. But being a threat in itself makes it better in more situations. It was never good against Delver, so it has just been getting trumped on all sides. Sublime Archangels effective haste makes it that much better as it pushes the clock that much more. Dork, 3 drop, Angel has that 3 drop attacking for 5+ damage on T3. It's a fast clock that makes even opposing Splicers pale. If that 3 drop is a Mirran Crusader, that's 10 coming across on T3. It is one of the key ways to redeem the aggressive creatures in the deck like Crusader and Hero. It's interaction with these creatures and the fact it flies might make it even better than Silverheart. It ultimately replaced Wolfir Silverheart.
3 Hero of Bladehold
Asked pre AVR I would have said "She is the army in the can. Mini Titan.. This card drops and just has to be answered. There isn't much more to it. She is pretty much lethal in duplicates. Essentially a 7/4 for 4 that just gets better every turn. This is probably the one card that Mirran Crusader is actually afraid of early enough to force a trade. Sure it isn't great facing down Titans but it can even push for the win through quite a bit of opposition. I've jumped between 3-4 of Hero but Hero is never really a bad thing. The worse Hero gets the better it is to have more of her since she is absolutely devastating in multiples. Where Hero isn't great you either want a ton of her or you don't want her at all. There is very little middle ground with this card. I fell in love with this card when it was the key to my Vengevine decks beating Valakut and it has been my workhorse every since. As long as there is Primeval Titan in the format I will be leaning on my Heros."
Sublime Archangel and Champion of Lambholt have breathed some life back into this card.
2 Geist-Honored Monk
This card used to be Gideon, but Cavern has made it so much easier to resolve. It's the best way to slow Delver and it plays nice with all the other big threats (Sublime Archangel, Hero, Champion of Lambholt). While weak to sweepers it does a lot of work across the board. I've always underestimated this card but it's all the value you need. It's a card that doesn't really beat itself. Clones are never as good on it as other 5's. Where Thragtusk could be a liability and Silverheart mercilessly dealt with this card is what you want. Elsewhere you already have the beats to get there lower on the curve.
The Utility
These cards basically connect the dots and smooth over the deck operation.
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
This card is a do everything. Obviously copying Swords or Hero or Sublime Archangel is just great. But it also does fun things like copying opposing Titans. It fits the curve right and using it to kill annoying Legendary creatures is pretty relevant. Clone effects are just good right now. It is important against Hexblade and a maindeck way to deal with reanimation decks. I side this card out a lot but it's a nice curve fit.
2 Champion of Lambholt
This card is perfect as a 2 of. You don't want to see multiples and you don't need them every game, but they are about as good as Bonfire against creature decks and they are cheap and aggressive. They play well with every card in the deck whether you are on an Angel or Hero plan. They aren't exactly 3 drops in a sense but the fact they do so much so cheap is a big benefit to the curve.
2 Ajani, Caller of the Pride
Like Champion these aren't really 3 drops except where you want them to be. Again if you stumble at 3 or 4 mana it's another way to push a huge advantage. This card is a lot stronger than anticipated. The high loyalty is impressive. The ability to always threaten is huge too. It shoots image. It let's you edge out CA postboard against Control with Triumph etc..
4 Restoration Angel
This card is really good and does about everything could want. It is definitely the weakest "threat" but it is your utility. It's your protection spell from removal, it's your haste after a sweeper, it's even a way to press your Hero of Bladehold Advantage.
Removal Suite
This is actually pretty simple. Given the high requirement of threats in the deck. I figured I can only afford additional 4-5 non-creature, non-land cards. If you look at the deck other than the 4 removal spells everything else is a creature or creature. For this reason the removal must be the most efficient and general.
2 Bonfire of the Damned
Wow,.. this card blows open the mirrors. Originally Daybreak Ranger.. but let's face it. Non-miracle it's what the doctor ordered. Miracle is just crazy. No more need for partial hitting sweepers like Ratchet Bomb, Corrosive Gale, or ones that hit your self like Whipflare or hard to cast like Slagstorm. This card is at it's best in a deck like this. Firstly it's insane against other creature decks.. yes most decks are resilient to sweepers, but this isn't symmetrical. Even if their stuff bounces back, and you then attack then if they block their stuff is gone.. you completely remove the value while jumping way ahead. I do have a fear of certain creature matchups de-evolving into this card top decks back and forth, but on the positive side I don't see this making our bad matchups like Wolf Run any worse. They could hope to miracle it to kill a big threat but, are they giving up Slagstorms for it.. good trade to me. The real reason this card is best here, is that unlike Pod, I have no innate connection to running out a ton of creatures. Unlike GR my creatures are all x/2's so I'm not nearly as vulnerable on the beat back. This card was made for this deck.
2 Dismember
This has been Incinerate and Oblivion Ring at different times but right now you want instant speed over all else I think. And this is cheap and kills almost everything relevant right now in a world of diminishing Titans.
Sideboard
The sideboard is really a collection of splits. It might not always be obvious but the choices here come a lot down to matchups. We run the most generic removal main so this gives some room to specialize. Just don't side in too much removal and remove too many creatures. The deck falls apart in these situations. Mind you this is where the deck gets all it's play. If MB is all about being general. The sideboard is about giving you the tools to outplay your opponent. Mostly just small 1 of and 2 of edges since the deck is powerful as is, but enough.
2 Ancient Grudge
This is a catchall but it's very efficient.. Great against Pod, or decks that run Swords or feel that artifacts are their only way of dealing with Mirran Crusader. I don't often sideboard in both since we don't need that many answer slots. It has it's uses. Probably bring in against Wolf Run too. Good against Mono Black infect generally. Just a good card to have.
1 Celestial Purge
UB Control and Zombies and RDW. Just a small hedge. Incinerate loses it's worth. This is like an extra O-Ring against these decks except it's instant speed. These are the only decks where you'd really want another O-Ring anyway.
2 Arc Trail
Bonfire sometimes is too expensive and this card does most of the same work. It's good against most creature decks. So in a sense it's Bonfire 3-4 where you don't want to go big. Short of Geist of St Traft/Stalker it's probably better against Delver and the 2 for 1 aspect can often just pull you a little bit ahead where you need to.
3 Triumph of Ferocity
I used to think Thalia, was the best card against Control. This is and it isn't even close. Thalia is dice roll. Do you have it in your opener and do the they have the early answer. That might buy you the time but otherwise you just invest on the board and lose out. Thalia is a Tempo play that requires you just go for it. If you don't get there you probably lost. The beauty right now is the CA in blue decks is actually quite low. A card like this let's you easily outdraw them. It's really hard for them to keep up 1 for 1ng you mostly if you just draw more and more cards.
3 Sword of War and Peace
This one is pretty obvious. It's the most aggressive pump spell. It basically gives you a Baneslayer Angel like effect if it connects. This deck lives and dies on the power of it's cards and it's threat density. It doesn't need the abilities the other swords give. It actually doesn't particularly need the abilities at all but this helps promote the biggest on board attitude the deck takes. The evasion are incidently the most important to this deck since it is most likely to get stalled by white. And the life gain is a very nice touch against decks that would burn you which is a naturally weakness of these sort of decks historically. The interaction with Mirran Crusader is just nuts as well. I could play Swords main but I have limited the decks number of pumps to lower the chances of being Tempo'd. Anymore dilutes the threat density too much. It absolutely essential against white control decks.
2 Oblivion Ring
Back on this card. I was dabbling with Crushing Vines for a while but with Sphinx on the outs having a more universal answer is better. It's a catchall and it's useful where a deck has only a few real threats, or where you need to exile something. Great against Control, and satisfactory everywhere else.
2 Zealous Conscripts
This is the anti-Titan card. It's also anti-control. It lets you steal wins out of nowhere. You don't always need to have it but it plays a vital role in combination with your other threats to put pressure on decks that aim to go longer than you. It's too good not to include. It might not be as accessible as in Pod decks but it still has a job to do.
Missing Cards
There are cards that you would think would fit into this list but I have chosen not to play them for some reason or another.
The Strangleroot Geist
This card has been the reason people have been flooding back to green. I was really excited when this card was announced. I'm still excited about this card and am actively brewing with this card in multiple lists. Just not this one. Truthfully as much as people gave GW a thrashing there was nothing wrong with it. It was just facing the worst possible metagame. One where every deck could kill their Dorks for free (so at no Tempo loss) something most decks have no business doing. Gw didn't really need fixing. Juza's list today would still be pretty good. Vapor Snag was a problem in a deck that could capitalize on it quickly like Illusions. Geist does fix these problems and is by far the best 2 drop option in green decks. By miles. It just comes at a cost.
What do you cut for it? This can only come from the top end. You are basically forcing the deck to rely on pumps by going to 2 since Geist quickly gets outsized. Now I understand it's inclusion in GR. That deck has no good 3 drops (Sorry Daybreak, you aren't quite up to snuff). GSZ for Geist is the best it can do. But GW has more options. Why am I worrying about lightening the top end? You are damping the true threat density. It's the same reason I didn't like Viridian Emissary in the deck. Are we really attritioning for that extra 2 damage? There isn't the burn for reach. No this deck is a critical mass deck. When we win we hit with a sledge hammer.
You always hear 2 laments about the GW deck.. 1. I hate top decking so many lands and dorks and 2. I hate that they kill my dork and I have no T2 play. Does Geist really solve these? It obviously solves number 2. However for that to be practical you have to up your green mana count slightly and as you know it's the white we actually should be upping if we have Crusader. Why don't we cut Crusader? Why do we even play GW? If you are going to cut Crusader you need a good reason. As mentioned above it's versatility comes in the way it manages the board both agressively and defensively in a way it just can't be ignored. Even stalled it's a ticking time bomb(more on this when we get to Blade Splicer).As for the top deck problem Geist makes it worse. Geist is a better top deck than a dork for sure with it's haste. However it is quickly outclassed for all the resilience it has. I find people how have embraced the 2 drops in the deck still find it awkward. While in very specific matchups Geist is useful as a tool it doesn't actually fix the "problems" with the deck itself.
Let me put it a different way. If you say have 8 dorks and a bunch of 2 drops (maybe 4 Geists, and 2 Mortarpods, or maybe some Thalia's) compare your curve to UW Humans. It's like you are running the same deck. Except their 1 drops are better. And probably their 2 drops are easily comparable. Head to head we might be faster, but you are spreading out on the board in the same way. You aren't doing anything particularly powerful. Now if our opponents Zombies all spread out on the board by cutting the top we're basically matching them while they are doing damage to us instead of outsizing them and truly stabilizing. We might be able to cast more spells but each card is worth less. If we aren't going to accept we're the bigger deck and the risk that comes from it why even play green in the first place? Not having the T2 play only matters in the purest racing sense. We don't always have to race. And with 8 1 drops maybe you have a 2nd dork. I would actually play more dorks in this deck if it made sense but the mana fixing is limited. Adding Llanowar isn't worth it.
The point is sometimes they can keep you honest. The answer is not weaken what you are doing to try and punish them for their insolence by going "ha the dork didn't matter". It's maximize the power of your deck so you still just have that ability to get there. For every time there have it there are several times they don't.
Silverblade Paladin
Just missed the cut. It's a good card that is competing with Mirran Crusader. It just is putting a bit too much of the early game hinging on Soulbond in a Vapor Snag metagame. It isn't bad but it can be sort of neutered. Like if you opponent bounces the card it's paired with and it runs headlong into a creature that trades with it. Well always attack with the other creature preferably. Sure but enough games and maybe it's the last creature on the board and it's just a vanilla 2/2. It isn't as good as my 4 drops so it just doesn't quite make the cut. On the defense it has the same issue, if you are using a creature like Sublime Archangel to block knowing it has double Strike against like a Restoration Angel, removed here and you are down threats on attrition a game you don't want to play. Mirran Crusader ruining non-white green decks and protection from black removal still puts it over the top.
Other small creature Drops
Similar arguments hold. Viridian Emissary is a little damage. Skinshifter is like River Boa. If you ever want a good read, read Zvi's My Fires 7 part series. He can explain to you exactly why Skinshifter doesn't have any business in this deck.
Strategy
This deck is not really single game plan so sometimes the strategy gets quite complicated. Let's first look at how the deck typically wins games.
Phase 1
The first phase is the setup. Your goal is always to drag the opponent into your tempo. You play out your dorks into Crusaders/Swords. Developing your mana is key here so you have to be very conscious of removal. Against more controlling decks recognize this is just a foray into being able to stick threats. Evaluate what you want them to remove. Sometimes I play Champion out quickly to save my mana dork perhaps drawing removal so I can follow up with a stronger 4 drop or Crusader. Sometimes they don't bite. Sometimes I play out a bunch of dorks to push a sweeper if I have a lot of lands. Other times you only play 1 dork at a time cause too many dorks are just collateral damage from a sweeper. It is very unlikely for most decks to match you threat for threat once you get going. So here you just want to find your line to put the most pressure on. I'm usually pretty aggressive here. If you can enter a race where you are doing more damage I usually go for it. Like I don't leave my Mirran Crusaders up to block nearly as much as other people. While you want to force the opponent to use their turns to play removal, you don't want that removal to come with the life loss of them swinging through. It's almost always better to run an attacking Crusader into a Shock and have your 2nd main phase to do something than leave it up as a blocker to have it killed EoT or on their turn without having gotten in for the damage.I'd rather force them into awkward trades or both of us to lower our life totals. Even against decks where I'm clearly the control deck. The reason is for each damage you do here significantly less is needed later. Yes I might be losing time but maybe the opponent misevaluates their role and goes on the defense. With nut hands this deck can out aggro a lot of aggro decks. Also our threats are potent. Hitting with a Crusader is 4 damage. This isn't like attacking with a 2/1 like Viridian Emissary. More often than not that first hit knocks them down for more than they can knock you down for. If there wasn't the possibility to do this I would be forced to play more defensively. Admittedly it isn't always possible to be aggressive here. Sometimes you just need to stabilize and spread. This is acceptable too, but you are prepping for a longer game.
Phase 2
The next phase is when you start dropping threat after threat. Sometimes you just win the game here. Sometimes you are forced to go on the defense here (against most aggro decks this happens, since they spread out on the board faster). This part of the game is often the board stall section. No one wants to make unfavorable trades and the cards in your deck tend to make it difficult to get good aggressive trades. Hopefully the opponent starts using more removal here to try to push through. You mostly just keep playing out threats. More than likely they are only able to get small damage through. This phase is about building the most impressive board. You want everyone to use up most to all their cards in hand.
Phase 2 has the biggest variance. This is why the sideboard is designed the way it is. It is made to maximize all the phase 2 options. By making taking a very flexible phase 2 approach the deck doesn't so much focus on specific matchups but types of matchups. This makes a lot of the sideboard cards generally good across the board. When new or rogue strategies appear as long as you can properly identify the roles you should have the necessary tools. There are really 3 ways to approach phase 2:
Phase 3
The final phase only happens against Aggro/Midrange decks usually. The key to this stage is usually a matter of drawing the trumps. Archangel, Sword of War and Peace, Champion are all the keys here. This is where the deck really excels over other aggressive strategies. If you played stage 1 out right it is usually quite easy often to swing for 12+ damage even if they've been removing a lot of your key hitters. Sometimes you get here with Control too. Usually they are posed to win here but it's possible they don't have the right specific answer in hand.
Matchups
Wolf Run Ramp(MB:50/50 SB:55/45)
Hero is really good game 1, and Gavony can get there.. Post board the matchup gets better.
looks like:
You have to realise you are lightening the threat density a bit here and going for the more all in approach but you have so many threats anyway. You aren't really worried about Inkmoth, you just want to get in before the Titans.
Delver(MB:50/50 SB:55/45)
Actually don't board much for this matchup. It still is pretty chancy.. Might fit in an Ancient Grudge if they are on equipment.
Control(MB:50/50 SB:60/40)
This matchup depends abit on their finishers of choice and their style of play. You might want to bring in an Ancient Grudge. You notice this plan involves getting a bit slower but becoming more threat dense. Sword is awesome in this matchup. If you ever connects with Mirran they are probably in some trouble.
Wx Humans/Tokens(MB:60/40 SB:60/40)
Again fairly favorable matchup. Let Bonfire do the work for you. You should be able to outclass their threats quite quickly.
Gx Aggro/Pod(MB:55/45 SB:60/40)
This matchup is pretty good already. You probably might want to swap around some removal depending on their trumps. If Pod bring in Ancient Grudge etc.. I almost never lose to other green decks.
Typically
Frites(MB:? SB:?)
This matchup is just a race of sorts. I have no real answer for it other than the knowledge they have no real answers. Phyrexian Metamorph is huge in this matchup. I suppose I could put in more cards to race, but I figure dealing with an early Wurmocoil is about the biggest pain other than Elesh Norn. Hydra used to just trump this matchup making it quite favorable.. now I'm not sure. I need to test it more.
Bx Zombies(MB:50/50 SB:60/40)
This matchup used to be sort of weak but it's been very good for me recently. You have to just keep pushing their removal til something sticks. This should lock up their early turn mana. The key to this match is safely getting Mirran Crusader in play. After that you play out and race with Crusader. Sword of War and Peace is huge in this matchup surprisingly especially cause we have Crusader. You really want to be able to kill any Metamorphs or Swords they run. As long as you curve lands ok you should win this. They only have the 4 tragic slips and they might have to use what's hand on all the dorks you play out the first few turns.
Previous Iterations
States
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Copperline Gorge
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Rootbound Crag
1 Clifftop Retreat
2 Inkmoth Nexus
1 Kessig Wolf Run
5 Forest
3 Plains
Creatures(20):
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Primordial Hydra
2 Daybreak Ranger
1 Fiend Hunter
3 Hero of Bladehold
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Primeval Titan
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Gideon Jura
Other(11):
3 Gitaxian Probe
1 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Beast Within
2 Nevermore
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 True Conviction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Naturalize
3 Celestial Purge
2 Viridian Emissary
3 Spellskite
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Day of Judgement
Pre-Worlds
4 Razorverge Thicket
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Sunpetal Grove
2 Rootbound Crag
2 Clifftop Retreat
5 Forest
4 Plains
3 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(21):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Primordial Hydra
3 Hero of Bladehold
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Apostle's Blessing
3 Beast Within
Planeswalkers(4):
4 Garruk, Primal Hunter
Artifacts(1):
1 Batterskull
Enchantments(4):
2 Angelic Destiny
2 True Conviction
2 Gut Shot
3 Autumn's Veil
2 Red Sun's Zenith
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Naturalize
2 Incinerate
2 Sword of Feast and Famine
Post-Worlds and CMT
3 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Clifftop Retreat
4 Forests
5 Plains
3 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(23):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
1 Spellskite
3 Kemba's Skyguard
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Primordial Hydra
3 Hero of Bladehold
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Garruk, Primal Hunter
2 Gideon Jura
Other(7):
1 Naturalize
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 True Conviction
3 Autumn's Veil
2 Ancient Grudge
3 Combust
1 Spellskite
2 Angelic Destiny
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Pre AVR
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Clifftop Retreat
3 Forest
5 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(23):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Primordial Hydra
4 Hero of Bladehold
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Garruk Primal Hunter
2 Gideon Jura
Removal(5):
2 Incinerate
3 Oblivion Ring
Pump(4):
3 Sword of War and Peace
1 True Conviction
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Combust
1 Celestial Purge
2 Daybreak Ranger
2 Angelic Destiny
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Batterskull
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
With the new changes I have to say I'm a little bit surprised how well the deck transforms. It goes from an all in GW aggro deck to almost like Birthing Pod (without the Pod). I think Kiblers Birthing Pod list has all the right attrition tools and it probably isn't remarkable how similar our sideboards are. This maindeck setup though lets me get away with playing strong cards in a Vacuum since all the specification is postboard. Still happy with the deck.
Opinions? Similar lists?
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
I see you have a sb plan for Frites, but how much have you tested that match-up? I found it to be pretty difficult for me (in GW) but I also was not running the Phyrexian Metamorphs maindeck (or at all).. Do you find Metamorph or Hydra to be the better trump card for this match-up?
Draft My Cube!
Against UB the truth I think though is Primal Hunter is probably better than Pod anyway and definitely here. And I get zero value off of Pod outside podding out a Huntmaster. It might help me find my 4 drops more consistently but that isn't going to help against control. Without Titans or any late game I'm just moving around 3-4's mostly. No way to do this without dedicating significant slots. I used to run my Primal Hunters but Batterskull shores up more matchups and is equally a pain for them. I was actually thinking putting in a single Grafdiggers Cage or so would be good since it deals with so many decks in a nice way. What slot to put it in not sure.. run more than 1 not sure. I used to run Autumn's Veils but sac effects reminded me how bad those ended up being. It's still a possibility.
The thing wish Esper was I wasn't prepared for it. I didn't realize the type of deck it was. I was playing a UB game against it like how I'd approach Solar Flare and this is a Tapout Planeswalker Control deck. The tricky part about Esper is they are so good at stalling. Then if they drop the Karn you are likely in trouble especially if you had to fight through a Lilliana or 2. Lingering Souls was exactly what they were missing. They also run Consecrated Sphinx which is awkward. Grafdigger let's me stop them from using their flashback digging, flashback souls, and Snapcaster so it might be worth a consideration. But they actually don't lean on these as much. One thing I didn't realize was the deck doesn't play O-Ring so playing board control is somewhat reasonable but they do bring in their Ratchet Bombs. It's funny cause Ratchet Bomb actually isn't great against us here, but if they can buy enough time it does deal with O-Ring. It isn't even their Curses or DoJ's that are problematic. It's just incredibly easy to get stalled to oblivion. Even worse than Wx Tokens. I should have been valuing SoWaP more. This is really just Wx Tokens with Mana Leak. They hardly have any spot removal.
Interestingly according to Shaheen the worst matchup is UW Humans. Their plan is to Ratchet Bomb the Honors.. This is sort of how they sideboard against me. They bring in Despise too which is even better since I have good planeswalkers. I wonder how much weaker the deck is if you keep the Ratchet Bombs in check (since that makes the O-Rings very effective). I'm going to have to test a few things.
-----------------------
Just ran a half a dozen main deck games against Esper in solo mode. Yeah now that I see the type of hands this deck has I was playing it way wrong. They will have like 2 DoJ or Lilliana's but maybe not the mana to cast them. With so little spot removal for the most part doing dork, sword, equip dork and Swing is the way to beat this deck. Usually I wouldn't set myself up for 2 for 1's against control but the deck really only has widespread answers that get better as the game goes longer. Trying to spread out on the board to force sweepers and then land a planeswalker doesn't work here. You just want to land a single good threat and pound face. They only have 4 mana leaks and no hard counters. It buys them time but if you slip under you kill them. DoJ is expensive. Landing a Hero of Bladehold against them is better than even a Planeswalker often. The deck hand combo like speed. I think a deck like Hexblade would give it convulsions. Lilliana is it's way out but if you force a sac, then follow it up they have to have the perfect mana to take over. After about T5 this deck becomes unbeatable against non-blue decks I imagine but if you set up something they can't deal with before that you are golden. Whether that's a planes walker or just knocking down 75% their life total. The reason they excel against Zombies and GR is that neither of those decks are actually that fast in critical mass. They are largely board attrition decks. Hellrider comes down like an Overrun and you get there or you don't. You have to be spread on board. This deck only has efficient answers for board spread. Toe to Toe it doesn't. If it has to DoJ every time you cast a Hydra I'd consider that fair game. That is probably why they were using their Ratchet Bombs against me postboard to kill Hydras(only need to get to 2 counters). Sword of War and Peace is so good against them.
Still this isn't a great matchup. They have their own Gideons. Gideon + Lilliana is really hard to deal with. This is definitely where I wish I had my 3rd Kessig Wolf Run back. The thing is I don't think the conventional sideboard versus control would work here. Cards like Autumn's Veil are not particularly good. This deck provides a answer variability very similar to our threat variability. Naming any single card with Nevermore probably wouldn't do the trick. So many generic hit alls that eventually the numbers sort of just balance. This decks real biggest fear would be hyper aggressive decks that just don't exist in this format. A deck like Kuldotha red would eat this deck for breakfast. Even humans on the Geist of St Traft plan probably give it a really hard time. Thrun is actually pretty decent in this matchup. Witchbane Orb actually probably would be half decent if it weren't for the cost. Really the deck can't deal with permanents well so they sort of just trump it. Mimic Vat would be good here. That again suggests pod but the problem is the deck is really good at just wiping the board. Sure you get a Strangleroot and start again but eventually you drown. Really more planeswalkers seems like the best plan. But that is tricky. This deck is a very good indicator of how powerful Lingering Souls will be when Mirran Crusader/Swords no longer are playable.
---------------------------------
A perhaps more alarming recent discovery I've made is that Mono Red is really hard matchup. I stopped accounting for it altogether. This might be a safe bet or perhaps there is a way to shore up multiple matchups I haven't seen. Thrun does seem like the weakest link in the deck. It's good against Mono Red and Control but maybe there is something better. So many sac effects and sweepers that Thrun isn't relevant for regen til like turn 6. I don't really care about can't be countered. Clone effects also suck. I think Strangleroot Geist might be better in this slot. While not really a threat neither is Thrun these days. But the card is good and bad in the exact same places, but it's better against decks that make Dorks worse. After doing a quick count of Geist versus Huntmaster I was thinking something like this:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Forest
4 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(23):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Mirran Crusader
4 Primordial Hydra
4 Hero of Bladehold
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Garruk Primal Hunter
2 Gideon Jura
Removal(5):
2 Incinerate
3 Oblivion Ring
Pump(4):
3 Sword of War and Peace
1 True Conviction
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Combust
1 Celestial Purge
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Daybreak Ranger
2 Angelic Destiny
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Batterskull
Although Metamorph does play nicer with Geist as a maindeck trick. I think the numbers are too low to support that though. What I'm trying to determine now is if the 3rd Geist is better than the 2nd Destiny. Geist is interesting in that it is decent against Wolf Run unlike Thrun. It's safe to play early into Slagstorm. Although I imagine Destiny actually gets better with Geist due to curve. I like this as a board plan in general since it lets me curve swap. By lowering my curve and being more resilient I don't get bogged with expensive finishers. Bringing in more pumps or stuff like Batterskull is expensive. This also frees Hydra to played later in the game against decks where you aren't the aggressor. I think it might make the most sense given this change to swap one plain for a Forest so I now am trying 4 and 4. When I originally played 5 Plains I didn't have the Mountain, so I still have 5 basics to turn on Clifftop and 8 for Sunpetal. That cuts me down to 15G 13W and 7R but it also means I get all 12 T1 Green sources which I desire. If this tests well in the next day or so I will update the Primer. I'm still not quite sure if I should move some of the 75 around between main and board, but these 75 feel stronger.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
I've been trying 3 Thalia Mb recently. I actually like it a lot but I think after some play with it I think Thalia works best in Naya colors. The key to Thalia is board attrition with creatures. Stuff like Huntmaster and Daybreak really give the card a lot of value. I don't mind paying 4 for an O-Ring sometimes, but more than likely it just provides more must kill targets to put pressure on. I didn't like Thalia before because I wasn't running enough of them. But I see no reason to play Pod over SoWaP or Relentless over Primal Hunter/Gideon.. the numbers just need to be trimmed.
I'm very interested right now in finding the best Thalia deck. I think it definitely needs to be GW since Thalia works best with mana dorks in my opinion. Not only do they divert removal from Thalia they are redundant in the way to jump ahead on tempo. Creatures with abilities seem to be ideal too. Especially ones that support board control since you can't avoid removal altogether cause making non-creature spells more expensive reverses the tempo jump for most pumps/Overruns. You want to win it on board with Creatures. Hero and Hydra both work great with Thalia. So do things like Spellskite. I'm still working on details and will post a list when I've tested it adequately.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Commander
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader G
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons WG
Legacy
GU 12 Post UG
Trade Thread: Click Here
Image Disclaimer: Please review User Notes before clicking infraction.
I've been working on a completely different spin on my list recently. Basically all the same cards but a more middle ground main deck. That does make some matchups worse but I'm hoping that trading just a touch G1 against Wolf Run can make Delver, Zombies, and Wx Tokens atleast 50% if not better G1. The way to do this is rely less on pumps and more on bodies that battle attrition. In that sense I can afford a couple 2 drops cause I'm not really cutting the threat density down that much, just the spot removal/pump slots. I've found my self less and less being able to cast expensive spells and for them to be relevant. True Conviction I think is finally out. The number of times I've resolved it but it a turn too late has increased beyond justification now. In those situations even Wurmcoil or Inferno Titan wouldn't have done it. The option of using stuff like Timely Reinforcements to support this bigger plan seems like a complete waste when other decks can use that time to actually build board position (it was fine when it was just Mono Red). Going all in on a Destiny seems alright but if the opponent knows your plan they can play around it. Lingering Souls has made just getting there a statistical improbability.
After watching the way Kibler Sideboards with Naya Pod, and comparing to how similar the decks look to each other in each matchup post board, I think I have an idea of where I want the main deck to be. Right now I'm very in on Pumps/Hero main (good against Green decks and Humans), and have sideboard plans for Control, and Aggro/Delver/Wx Tokens. Control is actually the middle ground and Aggro the opposite. If you look at my board plans they go from almost nothing against one side to almost full 15 card transformations against the opposite. Kibler's Pod list basically starts from the opposite side and comes towards what I'm doing. So if I main board more anti-control I should be better all around. The question that remains is, would a maindeck like this actually be any good or is it too all over the place? The trick is to find the elements to tie it all together. I'm getting closer but it still requires way way more testing before I can propose anything. Luckily less than I'd expect since I'm still playing like 72 of the same 75.
Ironically as it may seem, Hydra is the one card that always does exactly what I want it to against almost every opponent(forces an answer) and works with pretty much every plan (good with Thalia, good in board stalls with Daybreak/Huntmaster, good with high pressure with Hero). It's a bit like O-Ring. Not the best card in every situation but it general fits into a need even if it is overcosted by 1 compared to the better specific card.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Clifftop Retreat
4 Forest
4 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(26):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Thalia, Guardian of the Thraben
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Hero of Bladehold
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Garruk Primal Hunter
1 Gideon Jura
Removal(4):
3 Oblivion Ring
1 Incinerate
Pump(3):
3 Sword of War and Peace
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Combust
2 Celestial Purge
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Strangleroot Geist
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Daybreak Ranger
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Vorapede
Giving up the Destinies does make Wolf Run a bit worse but it's a small trade to shore up Control and Delver. Thalia isn't always great against Delver but in general it's alright all around. Even ok G1 against some aggro. Daybreak has been absolutely a beast and I think is better than going the maindeck Incinerate route. Burn is just bad in some matchups but Daybreak is always good (unless he's getting continually Vapor Snagged).
The biggest change probably has come in cutting down my top end slightly. So I'm less likely to keep going over the top (outside of Hydra). But replacing extra Gideon's and True Conviction with stuff like Batterskull and Vorapede really help put some resilience into the deck where you need it. Strangleroot Geist is there basically to side in against Delver, RDW, Zombies, and Control. I've found this gives me enough flexibility with my approach to not need stuff like Timely Reinforcements or other too niche cards.
Overall the matchups haven't change much other than Esper Control and W/x Tokens are better. Delver too really. This comes at a slightly weaker Wolf Run matchup postboard perhaps, but so far that has seemed to be the only real consequence. And Wolf Run isn't even terrible. I need to do a lot more testing before I can update the matchup numbers but it feels pretty good to be able to smash Delver, and other G/x decks, and not be completely horrible to Wolf Run or Zombies.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Commander
G Ezuri, Renegade Leader G
GW Sigarda, Host of Herons WG
Legacy
GU 12 Post UG
Trade Thread: Click Here
Image Disclaimer: Please review User Notes before clicking infraction.
Huntmaster is a lot like a planeswalker. I mean it isn't resilient in the same way but it reminds me a lot of a better Garruk Relentless. In a sense I don't need that many Gideons. Obviously this puts me more of a dog to midrange strategies, but Daybreak actually covers the slack very well. I want to run more, but I'd have to cut a Hydra to do that. It's doable it just Hydra works so much better in multiples. Daybreak is like the best Corrosive Gale ever. Hydra's weakest matchup is Spirits I have now confirmed (Daybreak's strongest) so there is some argument there. The deck just has too many chump blockers and can still play that annoying Snag game, but has the potential to reach critical mass around the same time. Maybe there is still some more play in the sideboard. Perhaps trading one Huntmaster for a GSZ makes sense. This is a cheap easy way to up my Daybreak, and Strangleroot Geist numbers at miminal cost. And a way to fish out Vorapede.
I guess I've gone more aggro. But I've always played it that way. The deck doesn't actually play that different for me. The amount of times I was really dropping 6's was so minimal anyway in this format. Adding Thalia in place of a few more expensive hard to kill spells is about even trade. It just makes my other creatures better in their place (removal is more expensive). It's a tempo gain sort of like a mana dork. I mean what are our worst G1 matchups. I think Thalia pretty much improves all of them significantly except Zombies, but isn't even terrible here. If you look I actually am still running 17 just big must kill type of cards versus 19 I had before but add Daybreak Ranger as another potential 4/4 etc and you really are in the same realm. Thalia let's me get away with cutting some pump and removal main. Why do all this? Seriously Delver is better than a lot of people give it credit. Or rather most Delver pilots are not good. But once you face good Delver pilots it isn't enough just to hope they don't out tempo you perfectly. The matchup is probably worse than advertised especially G1 but because so many people play it and aren't good it gets masked. Really that is the problem I've had with the GW plan in general (especially G1), Delver will beat you and no number of larger drops changes that. You can just bank on the opponent misvaluing their role or your cards, but that only works with weaker players.
Anyway I basically took what I felt the best parts of Naya Pod and added it to my deck. It actually wasn't that big of a change. I noticed that Naya Pod basically does the role we're trying to do in the metagame. Punish other midrange decks/aggro decks(the ones that beat Delver), while keeping a decent anti aggro/Delver matchup ourselves. Unfortunately Naya Pod is still too small to beat Wolf Run. We aren't but we truthfully are really only close to 50/50 on our worst matchups even afterboard, and Naya Pod is better against those matchups. I decided that in general going quick and big is good when it works but less stellar when you are completely out of the game against certain opponent's nut draws. After losing a several games after landing Gideon/True Conviction out of no misplay of mine I decided I was being slightly too ambitious to hang on so many 5-6's now. Truthfully it would require 25 lands and I didn't feel that would make the deck strong enough. I'd have to invest more in complete trumps(6's) and the potential consistency would go down. I'd have to play the game of what is good this week too. Inferno Titan, Wurmcoil, Elesh Norn, etc.. These cards aren't universally as effective in all matchups which is hard for a finisher when it is competing with much more flexible 4-5's. That and the realization that Thrun kind of sucks right now and Strangleroot Geist is basically pretty much just better. Not good enough as a threat on it's own but good enough at what you want Thrun to do. I tried main decking but it was the still abysmal feel I felt about Geist before. Just so unimpressive. Definitely a worse MB card for this sort of deck than Thrun who is a 4/4 and big on board, but I found it quite nicely took spaces up that I'd use for stuff like Timely Reinforcements and extra Thrun. This actually saved me sideboard slots while being useful in more matchups. Any sideboard plan that generally uses creatures is much better for us anyway since it is often creatures that come out.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Any way I have come to 3 observations:
1. Kessig Wolf Run > Gavony Township... except against Delver
This one should be pretty obvious, but it is annoying. I even prefer Kessig against Control. Delver just will never get the chance to connect. Gavony is so essential to any board based deck to beat delver that runs so many Dorks. As good as GR aggro is against Delver it is their pure speed and spread that does it and not the Kessigs. You don't really get the chance to force Checkmate like positions against that deck. You just overwhelm them. It is really a huge part of Naya Pod lists being able to fight Delver even with the anti-synergy with Strangleroot Geist. Delver isn't going to punish you for it atleast.
2. Mirran Crusader > Blade Splicer except when cloning effects are involved
This is related to number 1. See if you have Gavony clones will never be as good against you especially of first strikers. But it's awkward to have to face a cloned Mirran against a more aggressive deck when yours isn't any better. My old lists were so much over the top I could usually just leverage my power that way. By cutting my power to play a more close to board game to improve Delver, the clones are better for them. Kessig doesn't give you the trump although it does shoot images. It's especially awkward when the card beats most of your deck. Zombies did this to me too and I didn't have the Grudge in hand. When you go to the Huntmaster and Daybreak plan you can't even target the Mirran copy. I also cut down the main deck ways to deal with it. This would be ok, but I made a few mistakes where I valued Thalia too high. Thalia will trade with a Mirran and if given the chance you probably should. It's only a 2 drop and the other threats in the deck are better. I still think Mirran is better but it is something to be aware of.
3. Current Naya manabase sucks
Ok I've spent a lot of time on this. But even I knew it before. I was always careful not to go too heavy on red, but I mean how do you do a Huntmaster/Daybreak plan with only 7 red sources. Naya Pod is no different and just as bad. Maybe the pod cheats it. But I mean Kibler boards the Pods out and boards in basically 6-7 additional red spells. It sometimes works. Sometimes it doesn't. The most annoying part is the decks that kill your dorks you want the red. Delver gave up Gut Shots for a while so it was good but that is no longer the case. Naya manabases need to adapt. They need more red sources. Especially lists that maindeck 4 Huntmasters.. seriously it isn't sufficient. However, to get more fixing means more tapped lands. I think given that I have no choice but to embrace more 2 drops.. It sucks but I think ultimately it will give better hands. I wouldn't run more than 4 main (2/2 Thalia Geist split). I figure it's like the 4 Chimeric Idols in Fires of Yavimaya. Ultimately weak but serve an important functionality. Basically it gives you options when your T2 land is tapped. Getting T1 for the dork isn't bad but you might not get 2 or 3 so the deck if it is to have enough fixing needs enough 2's. Yes Naya Pod already is on that but it is a decent change for me. I think the trick to the mana might be to use Evolving Wilds.. basically like the way Esper Delver does. They use less lands than us but they use less utility lands. With 21 lands they can fix all their colors. I'm not sure how detrimental this is but I'm definitely looking into it. I lost one Zombie game and 2 Mono red games by never getting a red source.
In basic I think there are a lot of good options in these colors but I think we're nowhere near as advanced as Delver decks and there is still a lot of work to do.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Sunpetal Grove
1 Clifftop Retreat
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(28):
4 Birds of Paradise
2 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Strangleroot Geist
2 Thalia, Guardian of the Thraben
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Daybreak Ranger
4 Hero of Bladehold
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Gideon Jura
Other(5):
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Incinerate
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Combust
2 Celestial Purge
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Primordial Hydra
1 Daybreak Ranger
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Vorapede
Mana is 17G 13W and 8 R. 11 T1 G to support 6 mana dorks. With the lower curve there wasn't as much need for Dork slots. This curves out more like the ALA-ZEN Naya decks. It lets me fight on the ground more. Zombies Matchup is significantly better now as well as most aggro especially Delver. Ramp matchup with the addition of Thalia actually stays about the same. Tokens is still a not great G1 and cutting a Sword and an O-Ring doesn't improve that(although they didn't always do much anyway) but more sideboard spots make that matchup better. Gideon Jura actually has been really good in this deck. I'm actually thinking of trying to find room for a 2nd in the board. With more of a board presence it really does help me fight it out, especially against control. Relentless Deathtouch Wolves + Gideon is pretty sick. Given curve concerns though the numbers look about right to me.
It occurs to me now though that this is really no longer the same deck...
------------------
This deck however, is pretty weak to other green decks which are starting to show up. There is still lots of work to be done.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Sunpetal Grove
2 Clifftop Retreat
3 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Evolving Wilds
2 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(26):
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Strangleroot Geist
2 Thalia, Guardian of the Thraben
4 Mirran Crusader
2 Daybreak Ranger
3 Hero of Bladehold
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Incinerate
2 Sword of War and Peace
1 Gideon Jura
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Combust
2 Celestial Purge
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Sword of War and Peace
1 Daybreak Ranger
2 Angelic Destiny
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Vorapede
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
--------------
Although this setup is strong enough I think I can cut the Thalia's. The problem I was having was G1 against Delver/Zombies, and a better plan against Esper.. Vorapede and GSZ sort of solve both the best..
Maybe this is more the direction:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
3 Sunpetal Grove
1 Clifftop Retreat
3 Forest
3 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Evolving Wilds
3 Gavony Township
Creatures(25):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Strangleroot Geist
4 Mirran Crusader
1 Daybreak Ranger
4 Hero of Bladehold
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Primordial Hydra
2 Green Sun's Zenith
3 Oblivion Ring
2 Incinerate
3 Sword of War and Peace
1 Gideon Jura
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
1 Combust
2 Celestial Purge
1 Strangleroot Geist
2 Daybreak Ranger
2 Angelic Destiny
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Vorapede
1 Garruk, Primal Hunter
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
Champion of Lambholt:
This creature is great as a GSZ target with Hero of Bladehold. Decent early play. More than likely I will trade my Primordial Hydras for this in some number since it does what you want faster. Most of the time it's the Trample you want from the Hydra to break board stalls not the size (only relevant against Frites). So this seems like a better easier way to break board stalls. Gives you late mana dorks more value.
Bonfire of the Damned
I tried to run Slagstorm and Whipflare before and settled on Daybreak Ranger.. This is better than all those options and exactly the missing piece to make certain matchups hugely favorable.
Wolfir Silverheart
This is a big swing to get a lot of power on board. Suddenly you have 2 Titans.. It might be better than Angelic Destiny given it can be GSZ.. Definitely worth looking at as a GSZ target.
Zealous Conscript
Only a single red and Human.. doesn't put any strain on the mana for a very swingy effect.. Might just be better than the 3rd Oblivion Ring.
Cavern of Souls
Fixes some of the more awkward mana requirements like the single red for Huntmaster and the double white for Mirran Crusader and Hero. Not counterable is relevant cause it lets you slam down your Huntmaster much sooner against Delver, and force the Day out of control. Control decks haven't been playing much spot removal. If they move away from permission I might just bring more planeswalkers back to punish them, but I have a feeling they won't change that much and it will still be a matter of forcing sweepers.
Anyway this is the current list I'm testing. It's similar to my recent pre-AVR lists. I upped the GSZ count since it's more useful and basically makes my game 1's stronger where I want them to be(Zombies, Delver, 2 of the harder matchups). Lambholt Champion makes tokens and Human matchups stronger so it's almost like a fetchable SoWaP here. I'm starting to update the Primer.
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Razorverge Thicket
2 Sunpetal Grove
1 Clifftop Retreat
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Forest
3 Plains
1 Mountain
3 Gavony Township
Creatures(26):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
2 Strangleroot Geist
4 Mirran Crusader
1 Champion of Lambholt
1 Daybreak Ranger
4 Hero of Bladehold
2 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Zealous Conscript
3 Green Sun's Zenith
2 Incinerate
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Sword of War and Peace
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Celestial Purge
3 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Sword of War and Peace
2 Primordial Hydra
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Vorapede
1 Garruk Primal Hunter
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
:symb::symw::symg:Nature's Corrupting Justice:symb::symw::symg:
">MBC
Starting out with an almost all Human theme is probably the best idea, as Cavern of Souls would help it immensely.
I like how your not jamming in terribad AVR cards just because they came out. Cudos.
If i were to play this tomorrow i would probably try something like this:
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Strangleroot Geist
2 Champion of Lambholt
1 Daybreak Ranger
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
3 Hero of Bladehold
1 Zealous Conscripts
1 Wolfir Silverheart
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
3 Incinerate
2 Sword of War and Peace
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Cavern of Souls
5 Forest
4 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Gavony Township
Mana is a complete work in progress
Thanks Hero's of the Plane
Modern
-------------
xRxAffinityxRx
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Sunpetal Grove
1 Clifftop Retreat
3 Cavern of Souls
1 Shimmering Grotto
4 Forest
3 Plains
That leaves me with an extra spot again. Hard choice. A 2nd Wolfir Silverheart sounds ok.. rounding out some numbers, but maybe I should pay more attention to Delver. Maybe Wolfir Avenger is worth it's salt and should be in there. Just it feels a bit like Thrun for a deck that wants to be all Huntmaster. And I can still trump it head to head. I also don't really want to get into 1 of territory with Acidic Slime I don't think. I think Wolfir Silverheart is a bit like Angelic Density that isn't all loss when bounced. I wonder if it's enough to actually push control matchups in an interesting way. If you go heavy sword against them, even an unpaired Wolfir on the board presents a dangerous situation.. you don't have to extend out of the board. You just force them to deal with a 4/4.. If they try to fight you with permanents trump them, and force the sweeper. Well more to test. I just got back, so time to play catchup.
EDIT: Might seem like jank but I'm trying Abundant Growth in place of some lands. This is a risky proposition but it does give the deck a bit of velocity while fixing much like explore did.. Sure it doesn't ramp but it gives you access to the color right away like Shimmering Grotto and possibly draws you into more action.
Depends on how many O-Rings.. artifact removal they play. I find Vorapede + Sword very effective. So you keep baiting them with your threats. They tend to tap out so punish them for it. I had a really hard time with the matchup until I added GSZ for Geist and Vorapede. I started changing my game into setting up these situations that I wouldn't lose to a Consecrated Sphinx or they lose if they DoJ. Generally Sorin isn't much of a threat, but Gideon is the hardest card to deal with other than Sphinx. They tend to play low spot removal (or atleast used to). So I could usually leverage an early Mirran Crusader really far. Curse isn't the worse thing or Lilliana. If they go heavy O-Ring then I guess I bring in 1 Ray of Revelation to deal with it and the Curse. The game can be a bit of a grind and I definitely don't put the matchup as very favorable (as in general any DoJ heavy Lingering Souls deck is largely my Achilles heal if I don't have the right stuff and they do), but their manabase often punishes themselves as much as mine and I only need to just get out the door with a threat or so early to push the game back to a point where they are tapping out.
------------------------------------
This is another sketch I'm trying. Cutting the GSZ for just more of the good cards. The premise is basically Wolfir Avenger is better than Strangleroot Geist. I'm not sure this actually true. But if so it seems like a much better 3 drop than GSZ for Geist. This also makes Daybreak Ranger a lot weaker. I don't even need it out of board with stuff like Bonfire. The only surgical GSZ targets then become Wolfir Silverheart and Champion of Lambholt. Silverheart at 6 is a hard sell with GSZ and sucks against Delver anyway. Silverheart is really good against Wolf Run. Better than even Zealous Conscript. I like it better than the 3rd Sword main in that it's a body itself. Champion of Lambholt is trickier inclusion. The only place I really don't like it is against Curse of Death's Hold. This is much like what I was running pre DKA except Huntmaster has secured the midrange main deck. I think this list might be too weak in a couple areas but not leaning on GSZ so hard actually makes many more of the spells playable and Cavern better. Cavern Names Human mostly, but Wolf is reasonable. With this plan Metamorph loses some value. I can already do a lot with my own threats, and Wolfir Avenger does a good job at forcing awkward blocks with Geist of St Traft which was the main reason to run Metamorph main. To hedge it a bit more I've added one Bonfire main. It's versatile enough I think it's an ok 1 of. The final thing is using Abundant Growth for velocity. I think given the fixing and lack of tapped lands I can actually swap out land slots for it pretty much straight up. This might sound risky but it seems to work.
Keep in mind this is still very phase 1 idea. Whereas the main list i'm testing is an adaption of my newer lists. This is the one where I just try a bunch of new cards. Anyway here is the idea:
4 Razorverge Thicket
4 Copperline Gorge
1 Sunpetal Grove
3 Cavern of Souls
4 Forest
2 Plains
3 Gavony Township
1 Kessig Wolf Run
Creatures(26):
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Avacyn's Pilgrim
4 Mirran Crusader
3 Wolfir Avenger
4 Hero of Bladehold
4 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Wolfir Silverheart
4 Abundant Growth
2 Incinerate
2 Oblivion Ring
1 Bonfire of the Damned
3 Sword of War and Peace
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Ray of Revelation
2 Celestial Purge
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Champion of Lambholt
2 Garruk Relentless
1 Zealous Conscript
2 Vorapede
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
I'm a bit curious as to the direction of your most recent deck, since it's leaning a lot more closely toward my build. I'm still trying the Champion of Lambholt in the place of the Wolfir Avenger, though, because I see that card being potentially sick. That's why I'm also running Blade Splicers. I've even been considering Mayor of Avabruck, since the majority of the deck is Human. He doesn't even need to flip. My main concern is that I may be overvaluing the Champion in a meta where she won't survive as a 1/1 for long enough to get that first counter.
Has Gideon really been working out for you? He seems nice, but I'd think the Silverheart of Zealous Conscripts might make the better 5 drop, depending on your meta. Lastly, Bonfire of the Damned is amazing, and I've gone from running 2 SB to 1:1 split, to 2 MD. It's just too good to leave out, even without Miracle making it crazier.
4 Birds of Paradise
3 Avacyn's Pilgrim
3 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Champion of Lambholt
3 Blade Splicer
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
4 Hero of Bladehold
1 Wolfir Silverheart
1 Zealous Conscripts
Spells (8)
2 Bonfire of the Damned
2 Mutagenic Growth
2 Oblivion Ring
2 Garruk Relentless
5 Forest
2 Plains
1 Mountain
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Sunpetal Grove
4 Cavern of Souls
3 Gavony Township
1 Acidic Slime
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Beast Within
1 Bonfire of the Damned
1 Oblivion Ring
2 Phyrexian Metamorph
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
2 Volt Charge
1 Zealous Conscripts
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
GR My Blog RG (Std)
it worked when i tested it. just wanting to see some comments on it. BTW, i really dont like swords in my deck.
i would really appreciate help in my lands. Seems off to me
BR Zombies 28-12-2
RWB Tokens 11-1-0
Currently Brewing:
Naya Agro
Retired Standards
GW Humans 40-18-6
GBUW Tokens 21-9-5
GW Agro 13-10-1
UR Delver 4-2-2
Mono White Humans 12-4-4
Yeah Champion of Lambholt can be miserable unless you have something else. The Mayor is an interesting way to leverage it but I've never been happy with the Mayor in the slightest. The tricky part is even with running a threat density like we do, due to the high number of mana dorks and mana sources in general we might be left with it as the only real threat we have and that is probably insufficient. Playing against Curse of Death's Hold is absolutely miserable with him. He's as bad as a mana dork there. I was running GSZ and he was sick.. but after cutting GSZ it hasn't been lining up as I wanted and I don't want to hit multiples. I have 2 in the sideboard of my latest list, but maybe they should be something else. I would point out without Swords or pump you can't even run Lambholt's backup plan.. Ie.. unblockable threat on it's own.. Not that this is particularly good plan but when you are all in on him, you want him to be useful even if it's all you have.
Tracker is another card I considered but I think while better than people think, he's still harder to use than you'd expect. You still have to wait to untap. I've had Delver players keep me off Daybreak Ranger full games. Daybreak can shoot fliers without trading, and bigger things when if flips. Tracker needs something bigger.. I mean even trading a Blade Splicer Token for a flipped Delver while reasonable is still a tempo cost in mana and lose the advantage of Blade Splicer. The hardest thing about it for me is that it takes slots. If I were already a GSZ deck maybe a 1 of could be reasonable since if I have a 4/4 drop that guy pretty much takes over.. Then again Daybreak sort of can do that by itself if given the right time. I mean other than Hero of Bladehold or Wolfir, you are going to need to flip a Huntmaster to get it to happen anyway. I can picture getting multiple trackers and having a pretty mediocre hand. You cut a mana dork for 1 of them understandably, but maybe the mana dorks better if it means you can just get that much farther ahead. There are matchups where I want to attrition but maybe those are the same matchups that Champion of Lambholt just blows it open.
As you've noticed I have cut Gideon for the 5 drop creatures in the last 2 builds.. I originally had Zealous Conscripts main but I think Wolfir Silverheart might just be generally better. Zealous Conscript is only aggressive move where Silverheart can be defensive.. You get a huge swing in and a big blocker and the threat of lethal the next turn. Similarly I've moved to playing Bonfire main as well.. only as a 1 of because I still think instant speed removal is important the way we do battle on the board. Bonfire also isn't always great against Control or Zombies.
In general when I look at your list it's the:
3 Ulvenwald Tracker
2 Mayor of Avabruck
4 Champion of Lambholt
section that seems the most skeptical about. These are all pure synergy type of pieces.. For me Blade Splicer and Wolfir Avenger are similar types of cards and I went with the Wolfir, but it feels that Champion is replacing your biggest beats at 3 in either Mirran Crusader or Silverblade Paladin. This seems like a huge downgrade most of the time. You also are running Mayor/Tracker instead of Swords and the 8th dork. This plan might work decent against Delver or creature based decks but I think it all pushes you to be less explosive and more dependent on the board against decks that play sweepers.
I'm a little surprised you don't like swords in your list. I mean I have gone between different numbers usually settling on 3.. but generally the free wins and the different dimension they provide is useful. Sometimes you just have to race. Mind you playing large creature based trumps easily replaces them (Wolfir Silverheart, Elesh Norn, Gisela). Unfortunately those usually are more expensive to play and in so you can run into difficulties in consistency. As for mana you are short on white to run Silverblade Paladin (you want atleast 2 more white sources), but that isn't the decks biggest hardship. Your curve is probably too high.. I know you run a lot of dorks but if those dorks don't survive you are positioned to curve to 4.. you have 11 5+ drops. Your 1 to 3 plan seems solid enough.. There are going to be plenty of games where either you don't have the Huntmaster, or they DoJ after you play your 4 mana drop (killing your dorks, and Huntmaster etc).. and then you get stuck at 4 lands with a Gisella, Elesh Norn, and Wurmcoil in hand. 3 7 drops is pretty ambitious.
At a minimum you need to cut 1 of the 5+ drops for a 25th land. In practice I would say probably cut 3 more for 3 more 4 drops. 7 5+ drops is probably a more reasonable place to be.
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
5 forest
1 plains
2 mountain
4 razorvirge thicket
4 copperline gorge
3 sunpetal grove
2 rootbound crag
3 gavony township
Creatures:
4 Birds of paradise
1 llanowar elves
1 avacyns pilgrim
3 stranglefoot giest
4 blade splicer
3 champion of lambholt
3 Hero of bladehold
4 huntmaster of the fells
1 wolfir silverheart
1 borderland ranger
1 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Vorapede
1 Garruk primal hunter
Spells:
1 red sun's zenith
2 green sun's zenith
Enchantments:
3 oblivion ring
2 Druids' Repository
2 Zealous Conscripts
2 Ray of Revelation
2 ancient grudge
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Hero of Bladehold
1 Sigarda, Host of Herons
5 ?????
I personally went with the blade splicer over the crusader for a couple reasons, it chumps the crusader against some one else, B Easier to cast, C Synergy with champ of lambholt, D Synergy with Gavony.
Chose Garruk Primal Hunter in the deck because when this deck draws it is never anything less than amazing.
Druid's repo, is there as a two of because of how it interacts with mana fixing if needed, gavony with even just a couple creatures in play as well as some where to sink mana into in the case i just want to close out the game with RSZ.
I have thinking about Entrant the angels or WSZ as well but they are much more win more and disruptable than RSZ
Seriously thinking about removing the 1 of Thalia from the MB for something else, just unsure what, possibly another borderland ranger.
RWGNaya AggroGWR
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I used to run Primal Hunter like crazy.. 4 ofs.. The format has finally got more powerful to the degree that I found I want my 5's to straight up win rather than draw me other good cards. 5 Mana isn't a setup point anymore but a winning point. Stuff like Wolfir Silverheart and Zealous Conscripts just do a lot of work. I did have them in the sideboard for control but I find Vorapede actually stupidly good there, especially with Swords. Basically Lingering Souls made the card way way way worse. Having a giant trampling undying creature pretty much let's you own the midgame even facing whatever they throw at you. I started noticing I was bringing in a bunch of 5's and I couldn't afford to bring in more so I went to Relentless.. I like Primal Hunter way more but it's cost prohibitive.
Your list seems reasonable on curve. I do wonder if Druid's Repository is really a necessary speedbump. Similar with Borderland Ranger. It's good value, but it's not all that impressive at 3. With GSZ it's an easy argument I suppose, other than is it the color fixing that is needed at 4. The 1 Thalia seems more than anything a randomizing factor. It doesn't help that you probably want 2 more white sources to support it and Hero of Bladehold.
Finally, I tried Entreat, also I used to have WSZ as a 1 of when I was playing a heavier white version. First of all you mana does not really support Entreat.. I guess you hope the Repository pays off at that point. If I was playing a Repository deck I guess I'd consider it, but without the miracle cost it's pretty hard to cast with the triple white. Even miracle'd you have to remember you have to cast it immediately so to get more than 1 angel you need you need to have 5 mana in play when you untap. I find these decks often get to around there, but more often than not the situations you really can benefit more than that is actually far and in between, situations where yeah getting a miracle is insane but shouldn't really be part of the regular game plan. I honestly think Bonfire is a much better card.
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Anyway in general I think Midrange decks are some of the trickiest to make since you have a lot of room to use different good cards. The beauty of these decks is they can cast pretty much any powerful 3-5 drop you want and play them at a decent density. The problem is it really is a matter of timing to figure out what works. It is very easy to make a failing midrange deck. You have the greatest chance of missing your mark. It isn't something you can goldfish exactly, and it isn't like control where you can just picture the perfect end state. You kind of have to do both. You both need to figure out what your fastest goldfishes are and how likely you are to get them and figure out what sort of end game you can present and identify what beats it and how likely that is. Then you have to figure out to what degree you can improve either side without compromising the other side too much. The biggest thing to accept I think is that since someone will likely have a better end game than you upping your ability to be an aggro deck if needed is probably your biggest asset. Having too many situational answers and not being straight forward enough is the biggest trap. Singular cards capable of taking the most life aggressively or force bad trades have the highest value. Mike Flores talks about how playing The Rock is usually the wrong choice and I agree. It is also often best to just go to 4 ofs even in a deck with so much power behind each situationally for predictability even if cards are basically acting as splits. I have a really hard time with this. I think it might be more excusable in the removal department but it's a lot better to know what to expect. GSZ really makes this hard. Cause suddenly some 1 ofs look favorable. But I guess Legacy Maverick is still the best example of such a deck with all those solid 4's.. and maybe 5 1 ofs. Anyway I digress..
EDIT: Keep forgetting to mention Mirran Crusader is the 4 drop Planeswalker killer. Garruk's/Sorin are rendered pretty much useless against it. Makes it hard to protect Lilliana (since the heavy black requirement might mean the blockers are black).
GWU Knightfall Modern
UW Tempo Legacy
UGR Burning Wish Cobra Vintage
the RSZ is actually a metacall, my LGS is being overran by planes walker control in 3 different versions, Team america, esper and junk. in all three versions champ is just that... a champ because its easy to get through the wall of tokens with her.
rsz also helps get that small amount of reach in the case that i get slowed down enough to where they can take the game.
RWGNaya AggroGWR
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BBBFNM Mono-Black ControlBBB
I'm still torn on whether to use more burn, especially since Garruk Relentless and Ulvenwald Tracker really are green removal. I've got a couple Volt Charges in the side to supplement the 2 Bonfires MD, but ... I still wonder if they're the right call. Instant speed is so nice, as is proliferate if I've got counters somewhere. But otherwise, Arc Trail is so potent in this meta, and Incinerate is so well positioned to handle threats at a cheaper cost. Then there's the option of Combust in the side if I want to be narrower but more powerful. What do you guys think on this issue?
Currently Working On: Jund Ramp (RTR Block)
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Does a couple things that the repo doesn't, untaps lands, and forces them to lose cards, which is CA to me. easily swapped out to a more agressive game against control with sword of WaP... shall test and see how i like it, iether way the added toughness/power will be nice.
also allows the age old t2 sword play with all the dorks i run.
RWGNaya AggroGWR
UBZombiesUB
BBBFNM Mono-Black ControlBBB