This is my oldest and probably strongest EDH deck!
I allways like to hear your critique, ideas, suggestions, etc.
Before I start I'd really like to thank IceBear for creating an awesome (now retired) primer and everyone who has been discussing there. I got the ideas for some very important cards from there!
Viscera Seer: A very cheap sacoutlet with no additional costs in creature form. He also basically works as a Tutor if I have Sun Titan or Karmic Guide or Reveillark + Saffi or Fiend hunter. Karmic Guide+Reveillark also works
Scavenging Ooze: Graveyard hate is important. There are a lot of decks that do broken things with their GY...like this one right here. The Ooze can also gain me life and get really big. Also compared to Withered Wretch nongreen decks can't use a clone of him against me.
Gaddock Teeg: Since everyone in the Karador threads here said he is so amazing and I thought I could use some control like that, I added him and he can really slow some decks considerably.
Saffi Eriksdotter: A must-play in Karador. She gives second ETB or LTB triggers and protects cards like Titans, Sheoldred or Vish Kal. On top of that she enables combos.
Qasali Pridemage: Very easily recurable artifact and enchantment destruction.
Knight of the Reliquary: Okay, I admit it's an odd joice but it is kind of a pet card of mine and it synergizes with the deck on so many levels. This deck has a bit of a land subtheme. I have a lot of utility bound in lands (especially the everneeded sac outlets) and this guy helps me get them. He also fills up the GY with lands to recur with Life from the Loam and finally he easily becomes an 8/8 or bigger and thus becomes excellent fodder for Disciple of Bolas, Greater Good and Jarad. He's also recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark.
She also isn't ever regarded as a threat in this format so she alsmost never get's hit by spot removal.
But I'd also understand if anyone else chooses not to run her...
Wood Elves: Ramp on a stick, clamptarget, chumpblocker. Good, isn’t it? Can also get Murmuring Bosk and shocklands
Eternal Witness: Auto include. Only way to get most non-creature non-land stuff back.
Boneshredder: Recurrable creatureremoval that dumps itself in the GY
Fiend Hunter: Recurrable creatureremoval.This card is a lot better than it looks on first sight. With any sacoutlet he can exile creatures permanently but wait, theres more!: He can also enable combos in a similar way to Saffi and he can get back stolen creatures!
Fleshbag Marauder: Get’s around indestructibility and hexproof/shroud, let’s me sac my stuff. Solid choice.
Fierence Empath: Tutors key cards like the Sun Titan or Yosei.
False Prophet: I was very very sceptical about this card. But there where various Karador-players here who strongly suggested it and since I wanted a recurrable boardsweep that you don't have to wait for I gave him a try and I loved it.
I experienced that very often and especially when I am in dire need of a board wipe I either have an empty board anyway or an "infinite sac outlet" so the exiling turns out to be more of a bonus than a drawback.
Oracle of Mul Daya: Awesome ramp and CA. Imo belongs in every green EDH-deck.
Solemn Simulacrum: EDH staple. While it doesn't really overwhelmingly good when you just read the card, after you played it once you realize that it's just amazing value...
Mindslicer: Some people prefer Sadistic Hypnotist. I like this guy better. Mindslicer followed by a boardsweep throws everyone else so far behind that I can usually win the game. Also a nice rattlesnake.
Dimir House Guard: Tutors for a lot of important stuff like Birthing Pod, Mindslicer, Day of Judgement, etc. and makes Karador cheaper while doing so. Also is an “infinite” sacoutlet.
Disciple of Bolas: I was so happy when I saw this spoilerd. Sometimes it draws only two cards and thats alright but often enough this completely refills my hand and turns the game around!
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: No one else besides the general himself cares so much about critters in the GY. He is ideal to sacrifice for Disciple or Greater Good and he lets me throw my creatures in all of my opponents face. Also: Zombie, Elf!!
Karmic Guide: Makes big stuff easier to resurrect, combos with Reveillark+ ”infinite sacoutlet” to get my whole GY back on the board. Just suuuper awesome card!
Reveillark: Centerpiece of most combos and even if I don’t have one assembled it’s just amazing CA. Allstar!
Acidic Slime: Deals with so much annoying stuff, provides a body, that no one likes to attack into and can combo with Reveillark+Fiend Hunter or Karmic Guide or Saffi+”infinite” sacoutlet to blow all my opponents lands, artifacts and enchantments up (basically winning the game, especially if the sacoutlet is Vish Kal ;-))
Puppeteer Clique: A very fun card that can act as pseudo GY-hate. With Mikaeus and an “infinite” sacoutlet you can make a graveyard insurrection
Sun Titan: Awesome recursion Engine, also gets non-creature permanents under 3cmc back (Skullclamp, Oblivionstone). Also see Primeval Titan
Yosei, the Morning Star: He can buy you some time or lock one (or sometimes even all) players out of the game.
Kokusho, the Evening Star: This was even banned! You barely see a black deck without it and it gets even more stupid if you recur it.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed: Well, he is an evasive beater, pumps nearly all other creatures and gives them undying which means double ETB/LTB trigger and he enables some combos. What’s not to love?
Sylvan Primordial: Everyone knows how stupidly strong this card is. It replaced Angel of Despair which has the advantage of being able to hit creatures and attack in the air but is much weaker in any other regard.
Rune Scarred-Demon: Demonic Tutor on a big flyer? Yes please! Seriously, it’s nice to have a recurable Tutor.
Iona, Shield of Emeria: Everyone knows that she is a HUGE *****. She adds an awsome control/permission element and she can be cheated into play sacrificing Karador to Birthing Pod. Awesome Right?
Skullclamp: Main draw-engine in this deck. Drawing insane amounts of cards while getting my critters into the GY is awesome. In fact this card is so good that I'm even running Stoneforge Mystic just for the purpose of getting it.
Oblivion Stone: Great sweep! While it may be expensive, it kills everything (except for lands), can be activated at instant speed and be recurred with Sun Titan.
Pernicious Deed: This is a Legacy staple for a reason. It's a very versatile rattle snake which can act as a full board wipe or just "surgically" remove armies of small creatures while leaving my big game winners alive.
Birthing Pod: I have a very steady mana curve, which makes this artifact just going rampant. If it isn’t dealt with it’ll probably win me the game in a few turns.
Phyrexian Arena: It's cheap, it can't be removed too easily, it isn't considered too much of a threat. It's just stable card drawing, low on the mana curve.
Sylvan Library: It is pricey, but it's worth the money. It's a very solid CA machine and sometimes paying 4 life for a card is exactly what you want.
Survival of the Fittest: Everyone knows how strong this card is in this format. In a GY based deck it becomes simply broken.
Necromancy: A card that I have sort of overlooked for much to long! First of all it gets stuff out of ANY graveyard second of all it can do it at INSTANTspeed which makes it, much like a "negative" chord of calling, an answer to so many situations and is a very welcome addition since it gives the deck a possibility to interact with the stack, which it's a little bit lacking.
The third very great thing about this card is, that when it is in the GY Sun Titan can return any creature .
Greater Good: A sac outlet that fills the GY for Karador and my hand.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile: One mana, instant, exiling spot removal with minimal drawback. Belongs in every white EDH deck.
Entomb: Instant speed one mana tutor. Getting the card out of our GY afterwards is no big deal
Life from the Loam: With all the fetchlands this thing enables a landdrop every turn, with the cycling land it becomes a CA engine and gets back utility lands if they get blown up.
Eladamris Call: Very solid creature Tutor at instant speed.
Demonic Tutor: Get anything from your deck without the opponents seeing it. Every balck EDH player would be mad not to run this.
Farseek: If possible I want to start casting my threats and engines turn three. Thats why I cut Kodamas Reach and Cultivate and put this in. I hope that someday we'll get a functional reprint of Sakura-Tribe Elder.
Bitter Ordeal: The main use of this is to pull the GY hate out of opposing decks, but with the number of infinite sacrifice loops this deck can pull off, it easily doubles as a wincon.
Beast within: Instant speed remove anything with minimal drawback for 2G. Green staple.
Chord of Calling: Imo an often underrated card. In a deck like this that relies on creatures to deal with most situations this card can basically answer anything this deck is able to answer and that at instant speed!
Austere Command: Incredibly versatile, one of the best sweeper options in this format.
Decree of Pain: Can deal with token swarms at instant speed (plus the cycling portion can’t be countered ). The main part of this spell can swing games around, resetting the board and filling your hand.
Tooth and Nail: I think everyone knows how strong this spell is. I often get Vish-Kal and Mikeaus for a one sided sweep.
Cycling Lands: Those are mainly there for Life from the Loam but can also help to balance between mana screw and mana flood.
Bojuka Bog: There are other decks that like to play around with the GY too and this card deals with them in a very efficient way.
High Market and Phyrexian Tower: Those are sacoutlets, that I get life or mana out of them is just gravy. Not only they work great with cards like Yosei or Fiend Hunter, they also save creatures from exiling.
Spore Frog: Recurable fog, helps to deal with voltron and tokenswarms. I choose him over Spike Weaver because he’s so much cheaper, he only costs one and also you don’t need to keep mana open. And except when somebody is really after me nobody will attack into the frog anyway.
I dropped him because I didn't really need him that often. I guess it's a meta call.
Dawntreader Elk: Nice Ramp option on a creature but I already had enough ramp and other option where a little better.
Sylvan Ranger: A pet card of mine that I’m never unhappy to draw. He fixes mana, is a chumpblocker, clamptarget and makes Karador cheaper.
As the landbase got better and the lsit got tighter it had to go.
Big Game Hunter: Recurrable creatureremoval that has some synergy with Survival of the Fittest and benefits from EOT discard.
He competes for a spot with Bone Shredder and just lost out in my testing.
Necrotic Sliver: Vindicate on stick? Yes please. I also like him because he gives me the possibility to do something in my opponents turn which is nice since this deck is very light on instants. It can also interact with Harmonic Sliver
This was in here for ages but in the end I had to cut him because 6 mana to cast and activate it is often to much.
Dauntless Escort: A pet card of mine, interacts great with sweeps.
It's not bad but it never did enough. In this deck I rarly ever have a board that I really need to protect.
Angel of Despair: Vindicate on a big flyer? Yes please!
In the end it was outclassed by Sylvan Primordial. If I didn'T already have so mana seven drops it might have stayed.
Heartless Summoning: This little enchantment makes the deck go really fast. It's still in here for testing but so far it has been really good.
It very situational. Sometimes you don't really need the boost, othertimes the -1/-1 can be hindering.
Animate Dead: Get back any creature from any GY and titanable. Solid!
For me Necromancy was just better. Still solid.
Grisly Salvage: A solid addition. It helps the deck starting to go off very early in the game. It's a bit like Karadors Fact or Fiction.
It's really very okay but got squeezed out by better cheap CA.
Buried Alive: Early game this fills my GY with cheap utility and makes Karador affordable, late game it assembles my combos.
This card has a few issues. It's rather costly for a tutor that doesn't put stuff in my hand, it invites GY hate, it was just too slow.
Rout: Solid sweeper that can be played at instant speed which most people just don’t expect.
Another Vicitim of a tightening list.
Cultivate and Kodamas Reach: The only non-creature rampspells which are worth running in this deck since they create CA while still being at a reasonable prize.
They are really solid ramp cards but I already have 3cmc ramp spells in Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf and I wanted to also have more 2cmc options so they had to make place for Farseek and Natures Lore.
Homeward Path: Who wants to have their fatties stolen? I don’t.
Solid but between sacrificing, sweeping and Fiend Hunter I have enough ways to deal with stealing and needed the colorless land spots for other options.
One thing that I really love about this deck is that, while each card is very good by itself, most of them form awesome synergies, some even combos to be even more awesome. Here I want to compile all that I can think of
Karmic Guide or Sun Titan or Reveillark + Fiend Hunter or Saffi Eriksdotter+ Viscera Seer or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter or Dimir House Guard
This is the creamy combocenter of the deck.
If you play Fiend hunter exiling Sun Titan and then sac him to something, the Titan reenters the battlefield and you bring Fiend Hunter back and the loop continues. Do this with Viscera seer and you can basically tutor, get an infinitely huge creature with Crarrion Feeder or make a one-sided sweep with Vish Kal . Works the same way with Karmic guide and is even more fun with reveillark. If the loop is intercepted by spot removal, just sac your titan to your outlet so he doesn’t get exiled permanently.
I works to the same end with Saffi only that you now first sac saffi for her ability targeting your Titan (or Guide or Lark) and then sac that to your outlet…you get the gist of it.
The same thing also works between Reveillark and Karmic Guide: You sac Lark and Guide, bring the Guide back with Larks LTB ability and in turn return the Lark with the Guide.
As the keen observer has probably noticed you can do the most broke thing with Reveillark as the cycling reanimator. You can get infinite ETB triggers of any creature with power 2 or less in the graveyard (Acidic Slime!). If you use Reveillark+ Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter/Saffi you can exhume your whole graveyard to the board, cancel all untap steps with Yosei or outright kill the table with Kokusho.
Mikeaus also works great with Karmic Guide/Sun Titan loops because you get an additional ETB trigger with each cycle .
Sun Titan+Necromancy+Viscera Seer or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter or Dimir House Guard
This is a similar loop like the ones described above but it only works with Sun Titan and not with Reveillark or Karmic Guide.
You play Sun Titan (get back whatever you want from this trigger), then sacrifice it and play Necromancy. Here it gets tricky: You get Sun Titan back but leave the ETB trigger on the stack and sacrifice it. Both Necromancy and the Titan go to the GY. You then let the trigger resolve, bringing back Necromancy which in turn brings back Sun Titan and so on...
This works with either Sun Titan or Necromancy already in the GY and as opposed to the other loops can be started out of nowhere with an instant speed Necromancy.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter+Mikeaus, the Unhallowed
You can sacrifice Vish Kal to his own ability and have Mikeaus bring him back with a +1/+1 counter. Remove it to give something -1/-1. Rinse and repeat until all opposing creatures are dead. This gets around indestructability but is stopped by hexproof/shroud.
Whenever you got an infinite sac loop going, you can also use Bitter Ordeal to exile ALL the libraries!
You see, that especially the infinite combos are a bit convoluted needing three cards but because of all the tutors and the redundancy you can actually assemble the quite fast if you want to. If you don’t want to it’s also always fun to play regular “Rock-Karador” (because all of the combo pieces are very good cards by themselves) or just use them when someone really pisses you off.
There were also many long games, where I've been in a really tight spot and when looking around my board, hand and GY I realized that there is allready a combo assambled there and I used it to snatch away the win.
I got to say, I like it. I think I am playing an almost identical creature package. There is really nothing I want to suggest here.
The main difference I see is that you rely less on enchantments and more on sorceries/instants to deal with problems. This is an interesting take on the build. My main question is, how well you do without Survival of the Fittest. That is the main one I would be really missing in a deck with G. I can see Birthing Pod playing a similar role, but IMHO survival is just very good in Karador.
Thanks.
I'd really like to have Survival it would be very strong but it's also not that important and still rather expensive. The deck is very consitent even without it.
I tried to cut as many non-creature non-land permanents to prevent from beiing hurt too much by my own sweeps.
I also edited the OP. I added some new sections and a changelog.
In this deck you do not use nevy's disk, you use the magus. This is a reanimator deck, any time you can find an effect on a creature that is similar or exactly the same (as in the case of the magus) you go with the creature. Being able to constantly recur a wrath seems pretty good to me.
"Some of the other guys dared me to go out, but I knew it weren't no ordinary giant giga-blasting blaze of unending flames that would scorch the whole world."
—Norin the Wary
In this deck you do not use nevy's disk, you use the magus. This is a reanimator deck, any time you can find an effect on a creature that is similar or exactly the same (as in the case of the magus) you go with the creature. Being able to constantly recur a wrath seems pretty good to me.
Pretty much this. That's also why I run so many creatures. A non-creature spell in this deck has to be either very strong and versatile or very unique in what it does.
I'm also thinking about including False Prophet, mainly because he is a sweep on a stick that doesn't have a time lag and Carrion Feeder as an additional sac outlet.
I wouldn't play False Prophet because, honestly, exiling your own dudes looks like a bad plan.
I agree with this. Unless you are absolutely shut out of a game, severely unlikely with this deck, then there is never going to be a reason to play this guy. Also for a Sac. outlet why not use Attrition? Destroy a creature and sac the creature you want gone, like Yosei.
I guess if your able to set us the prophet it's a decent sweeper. I personally never have problems with creatures though since if I'm getting beat on I'll tutor up my living death and proceed to return the favor they just gave me. If you are having a problem with indestructible artifacts, may I suggest two cards: Return to dust and dust to dust. Definitely takes care of those decks that rely on Darksteel Forge A little too much, I use return to dust and since putting it in I never lose to artifacts anymore
Thanks for your comments and suggestions so far!
I have Archon of Justice to deal with indestructible stuff. I didn't think False Prophet would be a good idea either until some people, like Pookleyduke, recommended him. I then realised that most of the time and especially when I wanted to sweep, I haven't had many creatures around anyway and very often I had a sac outlet.
I'm going to at least test him.
Greater Good is probably very strong but I have three problems with it:
It is an enchantment with cmc>3, it doesn't do anything by itself, most creatures I would want to sac to it have a power lower than 3.
It is of course amazing with skullclamp but then again skullclamp is already pretty amazing by itself.
Howdy. Really dig the decklist. Ideas like the ones in your deck keep pulling me away from my dedication to my Hate Bears deck. Vish Kal sac loops make me giddy. I played an Innistrad Block themed Karador deck a week back with Harvester of Souls and Soul of the Harvest in it. Those cards are ridiculous in a Karador deck. Sooooo many cards. People already love the Harvester of Souls, but with as many creatures as we run in Karador, the green one is the real deal.
run Iona and dont be scared of her getting swiped. You're opponent will a)help you out by shutting out player 3 or 4's deck, or b)try to shut you out - but thats kind of hard to do running a three color deck. Name black - ok then wrath effect. Name White - ok doom blade effect. Name Green - well thats just dumb.
Nice list Volango. You've commented on my Karador list so you know our versions are different, but here are some cards/comments that jumped out at me.
Dauntless escort: I've found this guy to be just ok. Ive never really cared about a board wipe while playing karador. I would play avacyn instead if you really want the effect.
It seems like you might have too much ramp. Do you really need 5+ guys brining in one land? Similarly, I would replace far haven elf with yavimaya granger since it ramps you and auto sacs itself to speed up karador.
@kraus: I'm not too sure about those two. My list already has a good amount of sixdrops and they also have the huge dowside of doing very little by themselves. I have the Soul of Harvest in my Rafiq blink deck where it not only draws cards but smashes for 14 trampled damage!
@patlienemann: I'm currently trying to find space for Iona
@custo: Dauntless Escort is one of the cards that will probably get cut very soon (along with Magus of the Disc) I just couldn't yet bring myself to do it because of their great performance in the past.
I think I'm keeping farhaven elf because it hasn't ever been an issue to get him into the GY wheter through a sac outlet or chump blocking. I'm happy with the amount of ramp I have. Karador is already somewhat slow so he needs the boost.
The only thing that has been keeping me from including griselbrand is his current price tag and the talk about him maybe getting banned in other formats (which would probably cut the price in half), nevertheless he is on my watchlist.
I finally had time to update my list!
Currently I looking for something to cut for Crop Rotation. I noticed that I'm often looking for gravehate and I also very often really need a sac outlet (mostly for Mindslicer and False Prophet). Conveniently enough my lands can provide all this and Crop Rotation is a cheap and Instant speed way to get said lands. Additionally it would get stolen creatures back (Homeward Path), Destroy opposing lands (Strip Mine), protect important creatures (I would cut Stirring Wildwood for Sejiri Steppe) and even accelerate by getting Temple of the False God.
Of course critiscism and suggestions are always welcome ;)!
Here a few suggestions that are really good in my decklist:
- Sunblast Angel Onesided Wrath? Yes please:)
- Mossworth Bridge Lets face it 10 power isnt a Problem, note that you can activate the ability at instant-speed
- Aura Shards Okay maybe a meta call but most effective way to keep the board clear
- Phyrexian Arena or Graveborn Muse CA what else?:D
Also I would run Wood Elves over Yavimaya Elder. The double green cost really troubles me in my opening hand.
Altough it wasn't intended as such because I would play each and everyone of the cards in my list even if it wasn't a combo piece, combo is now it's major wincon. The point is that even without much tutoring, just by playing the game, dealing with threats and developing your own board, you'll most likely have a combo assembled.
So at this point I'd say it's a combo deck and as such a very well tuned one.
Thanks for your interest in my list, I hope that answered your question
Ok yeah that helps a lot thanks. I have Blackjacks Ghost Council deck that Im not sure if I like too much and wanted to try switching to a Karador deck. There are some cards from that deck that I think would be really good in here. What do you think about Ashnods Altar, Blasting Station, Skullclamp + Elvish Visionary, Kitchen Finks and Corpse Dance? BTW I really like how you have Bitter Ordeal in here lol.
Very nice deck! There's only two cards I'm not sure about: Stoneforge Mystic and Knight of the Reliquary. If the only Equipment in your deck is Skullclamp, I don't think it's necessary to use up a valuable slot on Stoneforge Mystic, despite how useful Skullclamp can be. I just don't think having two slots used on the same card is really worth it. Now, while I also see how powerful Knight of the Reliquary can be, it doesn't really have a lot of synergy with the deck; it's just a good stuff card, which I don't really think is needed. Besides those two cards, however, I'd give this deck a 10/10. Very good.
Ok yeah that helps a lot thanks. I have Blackjacks Ghost Council deck that Im not sure if I like too much and wanted to try switching to a Karador deck. There are some cards from that deck that I think would be really good in here. What do you think about Ashnods Altar, Blasting Station, Skullclamp + Elvish Visionary, Kitchen Finks and Corpse Dance? BTW I really like how you have Bitter Ordeal in here lol.
I actually played similar GCO deck as Blackjack and recently modified it into Karador version. Skullclamp is really great and I originally had Ashnod's Altar and Corpse Dance too in deck. Corpse Dance I removed because uh.. I don't remember anymore, but Ashnod's Altar I removed and substituted it with Viscera Seer, as creature based sac outlets can be replayed from the graveyard. If I still had Nim Deathmantle in the deck, I would play Altar too.
About Stoneforge Mystic, I agree that it doesn't really have replay value with one target. I currently have Lightning Greaves as second target, but since the deck doesn't really care about haste that much, I'll probably switch the Greaves with Sword Of Feast and Famine.
Ok yeah that helps a lot thanks. I have Blackjacks Ghost Council deck that Im not sure if I like too much and wanted to try switching to a Karador deck. There are some cards from that deck that I think would be really good in here. What do you think about Ashnods Altar, Blasting Station, Skullclamp + Elvish Visionary, Kitchen Finks and Corpse Dance? BTW I really like how you have Bitter Ordeal in here lol.
I once tried Ashnods Altar but it hasn't proven to be too good. The problem with it (and also blasting station) is that it is an artifact and as such hard to recur or tutor for. In my experience it's better to have Viscera Seer as a infinite sac outlet, because when I already have all the parts for e.g. a Saffi-Reveillark loop it's much easier to get it in my hand, into play (because of the low casting cost) or back out of my GY. Altar as well as blasting station are both rather good but for me they are just not in the top 99 for this deck.
I had both Elvish Visionary and Sylvan Ranger in here in the early and they were not too shabby but as the lit tightend up I had to ditch them...
I also tried Kitchen Finks and they are great for getting infinite life but outside of the combo they were very meh and since I have a general rule to only run combo pieces which are great outside of the combo too, I cut them again. Corpse Dance could be good, I never tried it to be honest and I probably won't, because I don't like the exile part (I have a sacoutlet most of the time but nor always) and it'd also require me to keep track of the order of my GY and between recurring creatures and lands and even the occasional spell, managing it is already hard enough.
Very nice deck! There's only two cards I'm not sure about: Stoneforge Mystic and Knight of the Reliquary. If the only Equipment in your deck is Skullclamp, I don't think it's necessary to use up a valuable slot on Stoneforge Mystic, despite how useful Skullclamp can be. I just don't think having two slots used on the same card is really worth it. Now, while I also see how powerful Knight of the Reliquary can be, it doesn't really have a lot of synergy with the deck; it's just a good stuff card, which I don't really think is needed. Besides those two cards, however, I'd give this deck a 10/10. Very good.
First of all: Thaks for the compliment
Both cards are truly very debateable. Stoneforge Mystic: I really see the point with Skullclamp being the only target but not once did that fall on my head. Whenever I drew the Mystic Skullclamp was either yet to be found in my library or I was aleady drawing such an obscene amount of cards that one dead draw really didn't matter. What makes Stoneforge Mystic so great for me is that it not only acts as a second Skullclamp which is the best draw engine that I have in this deck, it also provides a body to draw some cards and it makes Skullclamp tutorable with creature tutors. Knight of the Reliquary: Okay, I admit it's an odd joice but it is kind of a pet card of mine and it synergizes with the deck on so many levels. This deck has a bit of a land subtheme. I have a lot of utility bound in lands (especially the everneeded sac outlets) and this guy helps me get them. He also fills up the GY with lands to recur with Life from the Loam and finally he easily becomes an 8/8 or bigger and thus becomes excellent fodder for Disciple of Bolas, Greater Good and Jarad. He's also recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark.
So it's the many small synergies that make her very worthwhile for me. She also isn't ever regarded as a threat in this format so she alsmost never get's hit by spot removal.
But I'd also understand if anyone else chooses not to run her...
I allways like to hear your critique, ideas, suggestions, etc.
Before I start I'd really like to thank IceBear for creating an awesome (now retired)
primer and everyone who has been discussing there. I got the ideas for some very important cards from there!
1 Viscera Seer
2 Sakura-Tribe Elder
2 Sylvan Ranger
2 Saffi Eriksdotter
2 Qasali Pridemage
2 Scavenging Ooze
3 Fiend Hunter
3 Bone Shredder
3 Knight of the Reliquary
3 Eternal Witness
3 Fleshbag Marauder
3 Farhaven Elf
3 Wood Elves
3 Harmonic Sliver
3 Fierce Empath
4 False Prophet
4 Disciple of Bolas
4 Oracle of Mul Daya
4 Dimir House Guard
4 Mindslicer
4 Solemn Simulacrum
4 Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord
5 Acidic Slime
5 Reveillark
5 Karmic Guide
5 Puppeteer Clique
6 Sun Titan
6 Yosei, the Morning Star
6 Kokusho, the Evening Star
6 Mikaeus, the Unhallowed
7 Sylvan Primordial
7 Rune-Scarred Demon
7 Sheoldred, Whispering One
7 Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter
8 Ashen Rider
9 Iona, Shield of Emeria
1 Sol Ring
1 Skullclamp
2 Sylvan Library
2 Survival of the Fittest
3 Phyrexian Arena
3 Necromancy
3 Oblivion Stone
3 Pernicious Deed
4 Birthing Pod
4 Greater Good
Instants/Sorceries (16)
1 Path to Exile
1 Swords to Plowshares
1 Entomb
1 Crop Rotation
2 Demonic Tutor
2 Life From the Loam
2 Eladamri's Call
2 Farseek
2 Nature's Lore
3 Bitter Ordeal
3 Beast Within
3 Chord of Calling
6 Austere Command
7 Tooth and Nail
8 Decree of Pain
Lands (37)
0 Tranquil Thicket
0 Secluded Steppe
0 Barren Moor
0 Bojuka Bog
0 Sejiri Steppe
0 High Market
0 Phyrexian Tower
0 Strip Mine
0 Krosan Verge
0 Temple of the False God
0 Murmuring Bosk
0 Command Tower
0 Terramorphic Expanse
0 Evolving Wilds
0 Marsh Flats
0 Verdant Catacombs
0 Sunpetal Grove
0 Woodland Cemetery
0 Isolated Chapel
0 Wooded Bastion
0 Temple Garden
0 Overgrown Tomb
0 Godless Shrine
0 Golgari Rot Farm
0 Selesnya Sanctuary
4 Forest
4 Swamp
4 Plains
Viscera Seer: A very cheap sacoutlet with no additional costs in creature form. He also basically works as a Tutor if I have Sun Titan or Karmic Guide or Reveillark + Saffi or Fiend hunter. Karmic Guide+Reveillark also works
Scavenging Ooze: Graveyard hate is important. There are a lot of decks that do broken things with their GY...like this one right here. The Ooze can also gain me life and get really big. Also compared to Withered Wretch nongreen decks can't use a clone of him against me.
Gaddock Teeg: Since everyone in the Karador threads here said he is so amazing and I thought I could use some control like that, I added him and he can really slow some decks considerably.
Sakura-Tribe Elder: Great recurable ramp. I think everyone agrees here.
Saffi Eriksdotter: A must-play in Karador. She gives second ETB or LTB triggers and protects cards like Titans, Sheoldred or Vish Kal. On top of that she enables combos.
Qasali Pridemage: Very easily recurable artifact and enchantment destruction.
Harmonic Sliver: See Pridemage
Knight of the Reliquary: Okay, I admit it's an odd joice but it is kind of a pet card of mine and it synergizes with the deck on so many levels. This deck has a bit of a land subtheme. I have a lot of utility bound in lands (especially the everneeded sac outlets) and this guy helps me get them. He also fills up the GY with lands to recur with Life from the Loam and finally he easily becomes an 8/8 or bigger and thus becomes excellent fodder for Disciple of Bolas, Greater Good and Jarad. He's also recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark.
She also isn't ever regarded as a threat in this format so she alsmost never get's hit by spot removal.
But I'd also understand if anyone else chooses not to run her...
Wood Elves: Ramp on a stick, clamptarget, chumpblocker. Good, isn’t it? Can also get Murmuring Bosk and shocklands
Farhaven Elf: See Wood Elves
Eternal Witness: Auto include. Only way to get most non-creature non-land stuff back.
Boneshredder: Recurrable creatureremoval that dumps itself in the GY
Fiend Hunter: Recurrable creatureremoval.This card is a lot better than it looks on first sight. With any sacoutlet he can exile creatures permanently but wait, theres more!: He can also enable combos in a similar way to Saffi and he can get back stolen creatures!
Fleshbag Marauder: Get’s around indestructibility and hexproof/shroud, let’s me sac my stuff. Solid choice.
Fierence Empath: Tutors key cards like the Sun Titan or Yosei.
False Prophet: I was very very sceptical about this card. But there where various Karador-players here who strongly suggested it and since I wanted a recurrable boardsweep that you don't have to wait for I gave him a try and I loved it.
I experienced that very often and especially when I am in dire need of a board wipe I either have an empty board anyway or an "infinite sac outlet" so the exiling turns out to be more of a bonus than a drawback.
Oracle of Mul Daya: Awesome ramp and CA. Imo belongs in every green EDH-deck.
Solemn Simulacrum: EDH staple. While it doesn't really overwhelmingly good when you just read the card, after you played it once you realize that it's just amazing value...
Mindslicer: Some people prefer Sadistic Hypnotist. I like this guy better. Mindslicer followed by a boardsweep throws everyone else so far behind that I can usually win the game. Also a nice rattlesnake.
Dimir House Guard: Tutors for a lot of important stuff like Birthing Pod, Mindslicer, Day of Judgement, etc. and makes Karador cheaper while doing so. Also is an “infinite” sacoutlet.
Disciple of Bolas: I was so happy when I saw this spoilerd. Sometimes it draws only two cards and thats alright but often enough this completely refills my hand and turns the game around!
Jarad, Golgari Lich Lord: No one else besides the general himself cares so much about critters in the GY. He is ideal to sacrifice for Disciple or Greater Good and he lets me throw my creatures in all of my opponents face. Also: Zombie, Elf!!
Karmic Guide: Makes big stuff easier to resurrect, combos with Reveillark+ ”infinite sacoutlet” to get my whole GY back on the board. Just suuuper awesome card!
Reveillark: Centerpiece of most combos and even if I don’t have one assembled it’s just amazing CA. Allstar!
Acidic Slime: Deals with so much annoying stuff, provides a body, that no one likes to attack into and can combo with Reveillark+Fiend Hunter or Karmic Guide or Saffi+”infinite” sacoutlet to blow all my opponents lands, artifacts and enchantments up (basically winning the game, especially if the sacoutlet is Vish Kal ;-))
Puppeteer Clique: A very fun card that can act as pseudo GY-hate. With Mikaeus and an “infinite” sacoutlet you can make a graveyard insurrection
Sun Titan: Awesome recursion Engine, also gets non-creature permanents under 3cmc back (Skullclamp, Oblivionstone). Also see Primeval Titan
Yosei, the Morning Star: He can buy you some time or lock one (or sometimes even all) players out of the game.
Kokusho, the Evening Star: This was even banned! You barely see a black deck without it and it gets even more stupid if you recur it.
Mikaeus, the Unhallowed: Well, he is an evasive beater, pumps nearly all other creatures and gives them undying which means double ETB/LTB trigger and he enables some combos. What’s not to love?
Sylvan Primordial: Everyone knows how stupidly strong this card is. It replaced Angel of Despair which has the advantage of being able to hit creatures and attack in the air but is much weaker in any other regard.
Rune Scarred-Demon: Demonic Tutor on a big flyer? Yes please! Seriously, it’s nice to have a recurable Tutor.
Sheoldred, the Whispering: While she attracts a lot of hate, if you make her stick she’s a monster. She’s Debtors Knell and Braids, Cabal Minion in one card.
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter: “Infinite” sacoutlet, creature removal, lifegain and huge beater all rolled into one!
Ashen Rider: The big bad new Archon from Theros. I like the name, the art and it's powerlevel. Since Sylvan Primordial replaced Angel of Despair it's only fitting that Ashen Rider replaces Woodfall Primus.
Iona, Shield of Emeria: Everyone knows that she is a HUGE *****. She adds an awsome control/permission element and she can be cheated into play sacrificing Karador to Birthing Pod. Awesome Right?
Sol Ring: Pretty much auto include.
Skullclamp: Main draw-engine in this deck. Drawing insane amounts of cards while getting my critters into the GY is awesome. In fact this card is so good that I'm even running Stoneforge Mystic just for the purpose of getting it.
Oblivion Stone: Great sweep! While it may be expensive, it kills everything (except for lands), can be activated at instant speed and be recurred with Sun Titan.
Pernicious Deed: This is a Legacy staple for a reason. It's a very versatile rattle snake which can act as a full board wipe or just "surgically" remove armies of small creatures while leaving my big game winners alive.
Birthing Pod: I have a very steady mana curve, which makes this artifact just going rampant. If it isn’t dealt with it’ll probably win me the game in a few turns.
Phyrexian Arena: It's cheap, it can't be removed too easily, it isn't considered too much of a threat. It's just stable card drawing, low on the mana curve.
Sylvan Library: It is pricey, but it's worth the money. It's a very solid CA machine and sometimes paying 4 life for a card is exactly what you want.
Survival of the Fittest: Everyone knows how strong this card is in this format. In a GY based deck it becomes simply broken.
Necromancy: A card that I have sort of overlooked for much to long! First of all it gets stuff out of ANY graveyard second of all it can do it at INSTANTspeed which makes it, much like a "negative" chord of calling, an answer to so many situations and is a very welcome addition since it gives the deck a possibility to interact with the stack, which it's a little bit lacking.
The third very great thing about this card is, that when it is in the GY Sun Titan can return any creature .
Greater Good: A sac outlet that fills the GY for Karador and my hand.
Swords to Plowshares and Path to Exile: One mana, instant, exiling spot removal with minimal drawback. Belongs in every white EDH deck.
Entomb: Instant speed one mana tutor. Getting the card out of our GY afterwards is no big deal
Crop Rotation: Lands provide a lot of utility in this deck so this thing is a great charm with lot's of optioions. It can exile graveyards, protect my creatures, fix my landdrops and most important of all it will get me a sac outlet.
Life from the Loam: With all the fetchlands this thing enables a landdrop every turn, with the cycling land it becomes a CA engine and gets back utility lands if they get blown up.
Eladamris Call: Very solid creature Tutor at instant speed.
Demonic Tutor: Get anything from your deck without the opponents seeing it. Every balck EDH player would be mad not to run this.
Farseek: If possible I want to start casting my threats and engines turn three. Thats why I cut Kodamas Reach and Cultivate and put this in. I hope that someday we'll get a functional reprint of Sakura-Tribe Elder.
Natures Lore: Redundancy, redundancy!
Bitter Ordeal: The main use of this is to pull the GY hate out of opposing decks, but with the number of infinite sacrifice loops this deck can pull off, it easily doubles as a wincon.
Beast within: Instant speed remove anything with minimal drawback for 2G. Green staple.
Chord of Calling: Imo an often underrated card. In a deck like this that relies on creatures to deal with most situations this card can basically answer anything this deck is able to answer and that at instant speed!
Day of Judgement: Basic 4cmc sweeper, of course I’d rather play Wrath of God but I havn’t got one (yet).
Austere Command: Incredibly versatile, one of the best sweeper options in this format.
Decree of Pain: Can deal with token swarms at instant speed (plus the cycling portion can’t be countered ). The main part of this spell can swing games around, resetting the board and filling your hand.
Tooth and Nail: I think everyone knows how strong this spell is. I often get Vish-Kal and Mikeaus for a one sided sweep.
Cycling Lands: Those are mainly there for Life from the Loam but can also help to balance between mana screw and mana flood.
Bojuka Bog: There are other decks that like to play around with the GY too and this card deals with them in a very efficient way.
Sejiri Steppe: Just works great with Knight of the Reliquary and Crop Rotation
High Market and Phyrexian Tower: Those are sacoutlets, that I get life or mana out of them is just gravy. Not only they work great with cards like Yosei or Fiend Hunter, they also save creatures from exiling.
Strip Mine: Deals with opponents utility lands.
Krosan Verge: Ramp on a land.
Spore Frog: Recurable fog, helps to deal with voltron and tokenswarms. I choose him over Spike Weaver because he’s so much cheaper, he only costs one and also you don’t need to keep mana open. And except when somebody is really after me nobody will attack into the frog anyway.
I dropped him because I didn't really need him that often. I guess it's a meta call.
Fauna Shaman: A “fairer” and recurable Survival of the fittest. Since I now have one he had to go.
Dawntreader Elk: Nice Ramp option on a creature but I already had enough ramp and other option where a little better.
Sylvan Ranger: A pet card of mine that I’m never unhappy to draw. He fixes mana, is a chumpblocker, clamptarget and makes Karador cheaper.
As the landbase got better and the lsit got tighter it had to go.
Big Game Hunter: Recurrable creatureremoval that has some synergy with Survival of the Fittest and benefits from EOT discard.
He competes for a spot with Bone Shredder and just lost out in my testing.
Necrotic Sliver: Vindicate on stick? Yes please. I also like him because he gives me the possibility to do something in my opponents turn which is nice since this deck is very light on instants. It can also interact with Harmonic Sliver
This was in here for ages but in the end I had to cut him because 6 mana to cast and activate it is often to much.
Dauntless Escort: A pet card of mine, interacts great with sweeps.
It's not bad but it never did enough. In this deck I rarly ever have a board that I really need to protect.
Angel of Despair: Vindicate on a big flyer? Yes please!
In the end it was outclassed by Sylvan Primordial. If I didn'T already have so mana seven drops it might have stayed.
Heartless Summoning: This little enchantment makes the deck go really fast. It's still in here for testing but so far it has been really good.
It very situational. Sometimes you don't really need the boost, othertimes the -1/-1 can be hindering.
Animate Dead: Get back any creature from any GY and titanable. Solid!
For me Necromancy was just better. Still solid.
Grisly Salvage: A solid addition. It helps the deck starting to go off very early in the game. It's a bit like Karadors Fact or Fiction.
It's really very okay but got squeezed out by better cheap CA.
Buried Alive: Early game this fills my GY with cheap utility and makes Karador affordable, late game it assembles my combos.
This card has a few issues. It's rather costly for a tutor that doesn't put stuff in my hand, it invites GY hate, it was just too slow.
Rout: Solid sweeper that can be played at instant speed which most people just don’t expect.
Another Vicitim of a tightening list.
Cultivate and Kodamas Reach: The only non-creature rampspells which are worth running in this deck since they create CA while still being at a reasonable prize.
They are really solid ramp cards but I already have 3cmc ramp spells in Wood Elves and Farhaven Elf and I wanted to also have more 2cmc options so they had to make place for Farseek and Natures Lore.
Homeward Path: Who wants to have their fatties stolen? I don’t.
Solid but between sacrificing, sweeping and Fiend Hunter I have enough ways to deal with stealing and needed the colorless land spots for other options.
One thing that I really love about this deck is that, while each card is very good by itself, most of them form awesome synergies, some even combos to be even more awesome. Here I want to compile all that I can think of
Karmic Guide or Sun Titan or Reveillark + Fiend Hunter or Saffi Eriksdotter+ Viscera Seer or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter or Dimir House Guard
This is the creamy combocenter of the deck.
If you play Fiend hunter exiling Sun Titan and then sac him to something, the Titan reenters the battlefield and you bring Fiend Hunter back and the loop continues. Do this with Viscera seer and you can basically tutor, get an infinitely huge creature with Crarrion Feeder or make a one-sided sweep with Vish Kal . Works the same way with Karmic guide and is even more fun with reveillark. If the loop is intercepted by spot removal, just sac your titan to your outlet so he doesn’t get exiled permanently.
I works to the same end with Saffi only that you now first sac saffi for her ability targeting your Titan (or Guide or Lark) and then sac that to your outlet…you get the gist of it.
The same thing also works between Reveillark and Karmic Guide: You sac Lark and Guide, bring the Guide back with Larks LTB ability and in turn return the Lark with the Guide.
As the keen observer has probably noticed you can do the most broke thing with Reveillark as the cycling reanimator. You can get infinite ETB triggers of any creature with power 2 or less in the graveyard (Acidic Slime!). If you use Reveillark+ Karmic Guide+Fiend Hunter/Saffi you can exhume your whole graveyard to the board, cancel all untap steps with Yosei or outright kill the table with Kokusho.
Mikeaus also works great with Karmic Guide/Sun Titan loops because you get an additional ETB trigger with each cycle .
Sun Titan+Necromancy+Viscera Seer or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter or Dimir House Guard
This is a similar loop like the ones described above but it only works with Sun Titan and not with Reveillark or Karmic Guide.
You play Sun Titan (get back whatever you want from this trigger), then sacrifice it and play Necromancy. Here it gets tricky: You get Sun Titan back but leave the ETB trigger on the stack and sacrifice it. Both Necromancy and the Titan go to the GY. You then let the trigger resolve, bringing back Necromancy which in turn brings back Sun Titan and so on...
This works with either Sun Titan or Necromancy already in the GY and as opposed to the other loops can be started out of nowhere with an instant speed Necromancy.
Mikeaus, the Unhallowed + Pupeteer Clique/Woodfall Primus + Viscera Seer or Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter or Dimir House Guard
Return ALL the creatures from ALL the opponents’ graveyards to the battlefield. You can also use ETB effects from their creatures infinitely. With Woodfall Primus you can destroy every noncreature permanent you want.
Yosei, the Morning Star + Sheoldred, the Whispering One or Karador + Sac Outlet
Lock one player completely out of the game, make it two with Mikaeus
Vish Kal, Blood Arbiter+Mikeaus, the Unhallowed
You can sacrifice Vish Kal to his own ability and have Mikeaus bring him back with a +1/+1 counter. Remove it to give something -1/-1. Rinse and repeat until all opposing creatures are dead. This gets around indestructability but is stopped by hexproof/shroud.
Whenever you got an infinite sac loop going, you can also use Bitter Ordeal to exile ALL the libraries!
You see, that especially the infinite combos are a bit convoluted needing three cards but because of all the tutors and the redundancy you can actually assemble the quite fast if you want to. If you don’t want to it’s also always fun to play regular “Rock-Karador” (because all of the combo pieces are very good cards by themselves) or just use them when someone really pisses you off.
There were also many long games, where I've been in a really tight spot and when looking around my board, hand and GY I realized that there is allready a combo assambled there and I used it to snatch away the win.
24.4.2012: -Loxodon Warhammer +Spike Feeder
24.5.2012: -Spike Feeder +Loxodon Warhammer ->Spike Feeder wasn't good enough by itself and the combo with mikeaus is really boring, also Lightening Greaves went out and I wanted more than one Equipment to tutor with Stoneforge Mystic.
-Sakura-Tribe Scout+Carrion Feeder
-Lightening Greaves +False Prophet
-Victimize +Necromancy
10.08.2012:
-Martyred Rusalka -Carrion Feeder -Gaddock Teeg -Dauntless Escort -Magus of the Disc-Archon of Justice -Loxodon Warhammer -Victimize
+Big Game Hunter +Solemn Simulacrum +Disciple of Bolas + Woodfall Primus +Lightening Greaves +Greater Good +Entomb +Austere Command
22.12.2012
-Big Game Hunter -Primeval Titan -Kodamas Reach -Cultivate -Genesis Wave -Lightening Greaves
+ Knight of the Reliquary + Jarad, Golgari Lichlord +Iona, Shield of Emeria +Phyrexian Arena +Rampant Growth +Grisly Salvage
04.02.2013
-Spore Frog -Dawntreader Elk
+Sylvan Library +Natures Lore
04.03.2013
-Buried Alive -Stirring Wildwood
+Heartless Summoning +Overgrown Tomb
24.03.2013
-Fauna Shaman -Grisely Salvage -Homeward Path -Forest
+Survival of the Fittest +Crop Rotation +Isolated Chapel +Sejiri Steppe
04.07.2013
-Angel of Despair -Vault of the Archangel
+Sylvan Primordial +Godless Shrine
12.07.2103
-Necrotic Sliver -Rout -Rampant Growth
+Pernicious Deed +Kokusho, the Evening Star +Farseek
29.09.2013
-Stoneforge Mystic -Woodfall Primus
+Scavenging Ooze +Ashen Rider
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Thanks.
I'd really like to have Survival it would be very strong but it's also not that important and still rather expensive. The deck is very consitent even without it.
I tried to cut as many non-creature non-land permanents to prevent from beiing hurt too much by my own sweeps.
I also edited the OP. I added some new sections and a changelog.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
That is a good point, but I have no idea what to cut for her...
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
Cockatrice Username: seriph0
Pretty much this. That's also why I run so many creatures. A non-creature spell in this deck has to be either very strong and versatile or very unique in what it does.
I'm also thinking about including False Prophet, mainly because he is a sweep on a stick that doesn't have a time lag and Carrion Feeder as an additional sac outlet.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
I agree with this. Unless you are absolutely shut out of a game, severely unlikely with this deck, then there is never going to be a reason to play this guy. Also for a Sac. outlet why not use Attrition? Destroy a creature and sac the creature you want gone, like Yosei.
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
GEzuri, Renegade LeaderG
GUEdric, Spymaster of TrestUG
BGWKarador, Ghost ChieftainWGB
URJhoira of the GhituRU
UWGeist of Saint TraftWU
BUOona, Queen of the FaeUB
I have Archon of Justice to deal with indestructible stuff. I didn't think False Prophet would be a good idea either until some people, like Pookleyduke, recommended him. I then realised that most of the time and especially when I wanted to sweep, I haven't had many creatures around anyway and very often I had a sac outlet.
I'm going to at least test him.
Greater Good is probably very strong but I have three problems with it:
It is an enchantment with cmc>3, it doesn't do anything by itself, most creatures I would want to sac to it have a power lower than 3.
It is of course amazing with skullclamp but then again skullclamp is already pretty amazing by itself.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
WUBRG Some of these decks can actually win games...WUBRG
How I know I should build a deck:
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
Dauntless escort: I've found this guy to be just ok. Ive never really cared about a board wipe while playing karador. I would play avacyn instead if you really want the effect.
It seems like you might have too much ramp. Do you really need 5+ guys brining in one land? Similarly, I would replace far haven elf with yavimaya granger since it ramps you and auto sacs itself to speed up karador.
No Griselbrand? He's a house.
Thats all I can think of for now
My EDH Decks
:Chainer, Dementia Master - Mono black recursion - :Titania - Token hordes
: Teysa - Sacrifice and tokens - : Brago, King Eternal - Blink - :Sygg, River Cutthroat - I draw cards; you discard -
: Melek, Izzet Paragon - Copy spells, don't win.
: Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Card Draw - :Karador, Ghost Chieftain - Graveyard shenanigans - :Tariel, Reckoner of Souls - Angels and Demons theme - :Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Hordes
: Marchesa - Steal and sacrifice - : Shattergang Brothers - Everything gets blown up - : Animar, Soul of Elements - All creatures
@kraus: I'm not too sure about those two. My list already has a good amount of sixdrops and they also have the huge dowside of doing very little by themselves. I have the Soul of Harvest in my Rafiq blink deck where it not only draws cards but smashes for 14 trampled damage!
@patlienemann: I'm currently trying to find space for Iona
@custo: Dauntless Escort is one of the cards that will probably get cut very soon (along with Magus of the Disc) I just couldn't yet bring myself to do it because of their great performance in the past.
I think I'm keeping farhaven elf because it hasn't ever been an issue to get him into the GY wheter through a sac outlet or chump blocking. I'm happy with the amount of ramp I have. Karador is already somewhat slow so he needs the boost.
The only thing that has been keeping me from including griselbrand is his current price tag and the talk about him maybe getting banned in other formats (which would probably cut the price in half), nevertheless he is on my watchlist.
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Very true. I don't like to run clamp so I always forget about the importance of having one toughness
My EDH Decks
:Chainer, Dementia Master - Mono black recursion - :Titania - Token hordes
: Teysa - Sacrifice and tokens - : Brago, King Eternal - Blink - :Sygg, River Cutthroat - I draw cards; you discard -
: Melek, Izzet Paragon - Copy spells, don't win.
: Oloro, Ageless Ascetic Card Draw - :Karador, Ghost Chieftain - Graveyard shenanigans - :Tariel, Reckoner of Souls - Angels and Demons theme - :Marath, Will of the Wild - Token Hordes
: Marchesa - Steal and sacrifice - : Shattergang Brothers - Everything gets blown up - : Animar, Soul of Elements - All creatures
Currently Playing
UTron
Tahngarth, Talruum Hero
TRADE ME!!!
Currently I looking for something to cut for Crop Rotation. I noticed that I'm often looking for gravehate and I also very often really need a sac outlet (mostly for Mindslicer and False Prophet). Conveniently enough my lands can provide all this and Crop Rotation is a cheap and Instant speed way to get said lands. Additionally it would get stolen creatures back (Homeward Path), Destroy opposing lands (Strip Mine), protect important creatures (I would cut Stirring Wildwood for Sejiri Steppe) and even accelerate by getting Temple of the False God.
Of course critiscism and suggestions are always welcome ;)!
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
- Sunblast Angel Onesided Wrath? Yes please:)
- Mossworth Bridge Lets face it 10 power isnt a Problem, note that you can activate the ability at instant-speed
- Aura Shards Okay maybe a meta call but most effective way to keep the board clear
- Phyrexian Arena or Graveborn Muse CA what else?:D
Also I would run Wood Elves over Yavimaya Elder. The double green cost really troubles me in my opening hand.
So at this point I'd say it's a combo deck and as such a very well tuned one.
Thanks for your interest in my list, I hope that answered your question
GWKarametra - The MistveiledGW
GWR Marath - The Egg-laying Wool-Milk-Pig GWR
RBGrenzo - Restrained RakdosRB
UWRGBHorde of NotionsUWRGB
Retired: Karador, Ghost Chieftain | Rafiq of the Many | Animar, Soul of Elements | Maelstrom Wanderer
Odric Master Tactician French 1v1 Rules:
http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=521622
Adun Oakenshield Multiplayer:
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I actually played similar GCO deck as Blackjack and recently modified it into Karador version. Skullclamp is really great and I originally had Ashnod's Altar and Corpse Dance too in deck. Corpse Dance I removed because uh.. I don't remember anymore, but Ashnod's Altar I removed and substituted it with Viscera Seer, as creature based sac outlets can be replayed from the graveyard. If I still had Nim Deathmantle in the deck, I would play Altar too.
About Stoneforge Mystic, I agree that it doesn't really have replay value with one target. I currently have Lightning Greaves as second target, but since the deck doesn't really care about haste that much, I'll probably switch the Greaves with Sword Of Feast and Famine.
I once tried Ashnods Altar but it hasn't proven to be too good. The problem with it (and also blasting station) is that it is an artifact and as such hard to recur or tutor for. In my experience it's better to have Viscera Seer as a infinite sac outlet, because when I already have all the parts for e.g. a Saffi-Reveillark loop it's much easier to get it in my hand, into play (because of the low casting cost) or back out of my GY. Altar as well as blasting station are both rather good but for me they are just not in the top 99 for this deck.
I had both Elvish Visionary and Sylvan Ranger in here in the early and they were not too shabby but as the lit tightend up I had to ditch them...
I also tried Kitchen Finks and they are great for getting infinite life but outside of the combo they were very meh and since I have a general rule to only run combo pieces which are great outside of the combo too, I cut them again.
Corpse Dance could be good, I never tried it to be honest and I probably won't, because I don't like the exile part (I have a sacoutlet most of the time but nor always) and it'd also require me to keep track of the order of my GY and between recurring creatures and lands and even the occasional spell, managing it is already hard enough.
That's a good question, I havn't really thought about it yet. Maybe Rout or something from the CMC3 slot...
First of all: Thaks for the compliment
Both cards are truly very debateable.
Stoneforge Mystic: I really see the point with Skullclamp being the only target but not once did that fall on my head. Whenever I drew the Mystic Skullclamp was either yet to be found in my library or I was aleady drawing such an obscene amount of cards that one dead draw really didn't matter. What makes Stoneforge Mystic so great for me is that it not only acts as a second Skullclamp which is the best draw engine that I have in this deck, it also provides a body to draw some cards and it makes Skullclamp tutorable with creature tutors.
Knight of the Reliquary: Okay, I admit it's an odd joice but it is kind of a pet card of mine and it synergizes with the deck on so many levels. This deck has a bit of a land subtheme. I have a lot of utility bound in lands (especially the everneeded sac outlets) and this guy helps me get them. He also fills up the GY with lands to recur with Life from the Loam and finally he easily becomes an 8/8 or bigger and thus becomes excellent fodder for Disciple of Bolas, Greater Good and Jarad. He's also recurrable with Sun Titan and Reveillark.
So it's the many small synergies that make her very worthwhile for me. She also isn't ever regarded as a threat in this format so she alsmost never get's hit by spot removal.
But I'd also understand if anyone else chooses not to run her...
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